S05.E08: Coda

[AngelaHunter]

How is Beth just sitting there not passing out from the toxic stench of the human compost pile?

 

Good question. Maybe everyone's olfactory receptors on are the fritz by now?

 

I think the last time in a good while that anyone showed reaction to bad smells was to the "Decomposed Zombie Soup Du Jour" at the Goodwill.

[kikismom]

Okay, here's my question - if Morgan found this map, is he now going to try to head to Washington? He has no idea that Eugene is a big liar pants. 

Maybe that's the real reason he was laughing---the idea that Rick "I Only Travel In Circles" Grimes could possibly make any progress on a straight line.

[Pestilentia]

Good question. Maybe everyone's olfactory receptors on are the fritz by now?

 

I think the last time in a good while that anyone showed reaction to bad smells was to the "Decomposed Zombie Soup Du Jour" at the Goodwill.

 

The firetruck gang smelled the megaherd a couple of weeks ago as well.

[Darknight]

Concerning the daycare: No one could or would put toddlers through the hours-long makeup sessions needed to turn them into zombies. No one on the show, I mean. I'm sure there are parents out there crazy enough to be willing to that or anything else to get their kids on TV!

They could certainly show older child walkers by hiring very short, adult extras/actors, but maybe it's thought that no one wants to see little kiddy zombies?

Wasn't the first zombie Rick killed a child?

[SoSueMe]

Wasn't the first zombie Rick killed a child?

Yes, after he left Morgan and Duane he killed a little girl walker in the parking lot. But he had already killed bicycle girl and some walkers at Morgan's place before they split up. Oh and the cop at his police station too.

[TVFan17]

Even though I keep telling myself that there is no way this series can keep up a certain momentum and pace from episode to episode, and that there will have to be ponderous, slower moments and random contemplative episodes thrown in here and there, it still frustrates me when certain episodes are like hard-hitting slaps in the face and others are like gentle catnaps.   In this series we go from nearly pointless episodes where almost nothing happens, to meeting the worst villains we have met thus far, and they are doing the worst possible things ... then it's back to the quiet episodes... then it's back to another villain who is even worse than the previous ones, doing even worse things than what the previous villains were doing.  

 

The first episode of this season was brutal and shocking.  I expected Terminus to be explored for a few more episodes and it wasn't.  The whole Gareth/cannibalism element was pretty shocking.... and then we were back at the boring hospital with a bunch of boring characters.  The events that transpired at the hospital didn't seem all that shocking or menacing after we had already seen what the Governor could do, what Joe and his band of Merry Men wanted to do and what Gareth/the Terminus folks could do.  That's the thing -- sometimes this show goes to the darkest, most violent, most primal, most insane places and I find myself saying, "I can't believe they went there."  And then it takes 50 steps back into Quiet Time/Gardening/Leisurely Strolls Through the Forest for one episode too many.  It's hard to for me to get into a groove with the slow episodes because I know there will be another heinous villain around the corner, worse than all the others combined, and I want to hurry and get to him!

 

As for Morgan and why people are so interested in seeing him again -- I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I was moved by his story and his emotion when he first appeared.  Since he was one of the very first characters we came to meet in TWD, and he has survived, I feel invested in what happens to him.   He instantly seemed like a good, decent guy who was absolutely distraught about his wife -- and I really wanted Morgan and Rick to stick together, but it was not to be.  I had a feeling of dread for Morgan and his son when Rick parted ways with them.  So when Morgan popped up in "Clear" and my worst fears were confirmed (about the fate of his son), and Morgan seemed to have lost his marbles -- and he was legitimately upset that Rick did not stay in contact with him -- my heart broke for him.  I felt that Morgan needed someone -- he needed a group, or at least a friend, and he felt that he had lost the one friend he had and couldn't count on anyone.  I just felt sadness for him and didn't want him to try to go through everything alone.

 

Now we know that Morgan is probably still not in his right mind, but I want him to reunite with Rick and become part of that group.  Somehow I have an awful feeling that Morgan's story will be a tragic one, and that it won't end well, but I hope that when he finally meets up with the group -- whenever and wherever that may be -- he isn't so far gone into Crazy Town that he tries to kill them all or something.  I hope that he will allow them to befriend him and care about him like they do about everyone else in the group.

[Nashville]

I think he was awake?  I thought I saw him on the firetruck that Abraham drove up to the church doors.

Yep. He took a nap, he woke up, and now he's all better.

It really works.

Just ask Carol.

[NoWillToResist]

That society wasn't functioning, bad cops were getting away with terrorizing and raping the weaker members.  Dawn thought she was getting rid of the bad seed when she killed Hanson, then she became the bad seed.  Will that female cop who appears to be the new leader also turn into a bad seed?  Unless they take apart and examine the power structure at the hospital and change it in some fundamental ways, it'll just happen again and again.  Plus that doctor is pretty shifty.

 

If I leave with Rick I may be eating cold beans and sleeping in trees, but at least I probably won't be raped by someone in his group.  Seeing Sasha among them and seeing Beth and Carol's eagerness to return to them and Noah's desire give up the material comforts of the hospital to go back out into the harsh unknown with them after only knowing them for a couple of days would tell me volumes.

 

Noah went back to Dawn, so Carol and Beth heading "home" wouldn't mean much, IMO. Also, I did not see any eagerness from Carol or Beth to get back to their group. Dawn and the doctor knew Beth wanted out, but no one else would have. And their reunions with CDB were so clinical, I wouldn't be surprised if the not-in-the-loop hospital people thought that B&C were more resigned to going back with Rick. Beth didn't rush to them or embrace anyone. Neither Beth nor Carol made a peep as the exchange went down. Hell, outside the few cops in the know, this Rick guy has taken some of their cops hostage and is demanding the return of two of "his" people (whom the hospital "rescued"). He could be viewed as the aggressor. Throw in that he looks like shit and I have NO problem believing that no one outside of Noah was interested.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the few who knew the crap that went down in the hospital, felt that things would be good now because they'd feel that the "bad" people in their group had been taken out. So all that's left are the "good" people who want to hunker down, save some people and create some sort of society. They may be doomed to repeat the pattern, but maybe not.

 

I do have one question though...there's a lot of talk about the rapey cops. But, unless I misheard, I thought Dawn said something during her struggle with that cop that some of the cops stood by and/or laughed while THAT GIRL was raped. "Girl" is singular. So, perhaps the rapey times was not some standard trend there. Was it just the one girl who got that 'special' treatment? Perhaps rape wasn't some omnipresent threat?

 

So, wouldn't the elevator shaft of the damned absolutely reek? How is Beth just sitting there not passing out from the toxic stench of the human compost pile?

 

Also, why would Beth choose to sit there and ponder her life? There's a nice clean hospital with lots of rooms - even your own! Nah, take a key and go sit on the edge of the completely dangerous open elevator at the bottom of which are rotting corpses and walkers. Good call!

Edited December 3, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[mandolin]

Yes, after he left Morgan and Duane he killed a little girl walker in the parking lot. But he had already killed bicycle girl and some walkers at Morgan's place before they split up. Oh and the cop at his police station too.

Yep. The first shown kill was the little girl.

[kj4ever]

 

I do have one question though...there's a lot of talk about the rapey cops. But, unless I misheard, I thought Dawn said something during her struggle with that cop that some of the cops stood by and/or laughed while THAT GIRL was raped. "Girl" is singular. So, perhaps the rapey times was not some standard trend there. Was it just the one girl who got that 'special' treatment? Perhaps rape wasn't some omnipresent threat?

 

 

Also, why would Beth choose to sit there and ponder her life? There's a nice clean hospital with lots of rooms - even your own! Nah, take a key and go sit on the edge of the completely dangerous open elevator at the bottom of which are rotting corpses and walkers. Good call!

 

One of the first things Dawn said to Beth was that she would be expected to keep the cops "happy".  Joan wasn't going to go along with that program, which is why they raped her.  I'm sure some of the other women in the hospital were terrified not to do it, so they went along with it.  Otherwise they'd have stitches on their face or what seemed like be brutally raped. 

 

Hell if they looked around a bit they'd probably find some women that would happily give it up to be free of walkers and have food and shelter.  There might have been some women like that there, and then others who were to scared to go against the system.

[Milaxx]

oh, thanks.

 

I might have missed this as well but where did people see Morgan this episode?

 

The reason many missed Morgan was because his appearance was after the ending credits. Some DVRs cut off or missed recording it.

So, wouldn't the elevator shaft of the damned absolutely reek? How is Beth just sitting there not passing out from the toxic stench of the human compost pile?

I thought the same thing. Then again Rick & co don't seem to know how to bathe or wash clothes either. Even when they lived in the prison they were always greasy and grimy looking.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Milaxx

[AngelaHunter]

Then again Rick & co don't seem to know how to bath or wash clothes either. Even when they lived in the prison they were always, greasy and grimy looking.

 

Especially Rick - filthy, raggedy and scraggly.  He's the worst, IMO. Can't he at least find an old black tee shirt somewhere to wear and  try and hide a little of the dirt and blood he's always covered in? I'm sure he could have swiped a few bars of soap from the hospital on his way out.

 

Daryl is starting to look almost fresh in comparison.

[BrokenRemote]

And, of course, I get that. I do understand characters will die, and I understand that sometimes it makes sense (Shane, Herschel) and sometimes it'll be totally random (Andrea's sister). Such is life, and such is the ZA. I get that. I've had people die on me in life, so I know it happens.

The whole "who-will-survive" (implicit in that is "who-will-die") is partly why I watch, but I much prefer "how-will-they-survive." To me, that's where story-telling comes in. I'm much less interested in who dies, frankly, and would rather watch how they survive. That, to me, is where drama is. And it's amplified because you know someone might die. And, sometimes, like with Herschel, the death really resonates, and really (and oddly) captures the essence of everything that's happened and is happening.

And I think that's where TPTB dropped the ball with Beth. They needed someone's neck on the chopping block, and they needed that neck cut. It was the mid-season finale, and such things are important for the mid-season finale. {Sarcasm fully intended} To me, Beth's death was worse than a random death because they tried to affix meaning to it, yet there was none and I blame the writers. For instance, if Beth had been killed in a crossfire because the exchange went wrong -- a cop (or even Tyrese, and wouldn't that have been interesting) with an itchy trigger finger -- I could have tolerated that better.

This is merely my opinion.

The way it appeared to me as I watched was that Beth tried to attach meaning to her suicide-by-Dawn, with her hug of Noah and her cryptic 'I get it now'. I saw her actions as very much in character with the optimistic, idealistic and sometimes out-of-touch-with-reality person that Beth was.

As you said, all opinions, but I think it's important for those who are vocal about how special Beth's death was in its lack of realism or sense to know that it wasn't as black and white, flat out obviously bad to everyone. There are other interpretations.

And as I mentioned in Beth's thread, people who had a problem with how things went down are much more likely to be vocal about it than people who found it realistic but weren't moved by it enough to talk about it.

Noah went back to Dawn, so Carol and Beth heading "home" wouldn't mean much, IMO. Also, I did not see any eagerness from Carol or Beth to get back to their group. Dawn and the doctor knew Beth wanted out, but no one else would have. And their reunions with CDB were so clinical, I wouldn't be surprised if the not-in-the-loop hospital people thought that B&C were more resigned to going back with Rick. Beth didn't rush to them or embrace anyone. Neither Beth nor Carol made a peep as the exchange went down. Hell, outside the few cops in the know, this Rick guy has taken some of their cops hostage and is demanding the return of two of "his" people (whom the hospital "rescued"). He could be viewed as the aggressor. Throw in that he looks like shit and I have NO problem believing that no one outside of Noah was interested.

I am 1000% sure that Beth and Rick embraced, albeit briefly. Edited December 4, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[Raven1707]

Do we know for sure the school was an elementary school. I forget and I don't have any interest in looking it up. If it was a high school, grown looking walkers makes sense.

 

Yeah, there's a distinct possibility it was a high school, but I'm pretty sure those walkers weren't teenagers either, unless they had a truly tragic sense of style.

[Raven1707]

I'm still working on my dialogue project and expect to be finished no later than Friday. In the meantime, my favorite exchange from "Coda":

 

Officer Franco: “Where are your people?”
Rick: “They’re close.”
(Silenced rifle shot and a walker’s head explodes)
Rick: “Radio your lieutenant." (Pause)  "I’ll wait.”

[SoSueMe]

Yep. The first shown kill was the little girl.

I thought that was a flashback in the opening credits.

[AngelaHunter]

I am 1000% sure that Beth and Rick embraced, albeit briefly.

 

Rick put his hand out to her and pulled her head towards him briefly, but Beth did no embracing and the minute he released her she just looked back at the hospital crew. As she was standing with Dawn and waiting for the exchange, she stared blankly, off and on, at Rick's crew ( I know that was her usual expression, but come on! She's being rescued from a life of indentured servitude, future beatdowns/facial scarring and rape) but didn't smile in even the smallest way, looked pleased or even relieved. It was as though she were facing strangers.

[mandolin]

I thought that was a flashback in the opening credits.

The pilot opens with the cruiser driving down the abandoned road coming to that gas station where the girl was. 

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Days_Gone_Bye_(TV_Series)

Then credits, then Shane and Rick eating Five Guys bitching about women turning off the lights.

 

I think it's referred to as a "cold open."

[SometimesBites]

Another thing which I think is sad.  I think they always want to kill off characters.  Kirkman admitted this.  This is how they further the story.

 

I'm of the opinion that everyone involved with creating this show is now running up against the following dilemma: When the show began, it was chock-ablock with a dynamic cast and an immediate story line that promised a lot of what most of us actually tune in to see--that is, how the hell does one cope when the world turns into something unrecognizable? They also kept happy viewers breathless with the threat that all characters are in mortal peril, and that they (the show's Deciders) aren't afraid to kill off beloved or pivotal characters--WOW, EDGY!!

 

But this is television, five seasons in, and at some point viewers are going to be invested enough in a core group of people, that they just aren't going to be okay with the threat of death to those characters. I'm sure there a a few posters here who wouldn't care WHO the show killed off, but I'd venture that most of us have at least a couple of characters that by now feel like deal-breaker characters (as in the t-shirt I saw that said "If they kill Daryl, we riot!") There are sure some of those characters for me! So they sprinkle in newbies, work on making us care, so they can then turn around and "stun" us  with a death. I have to admit, I had really gotten to enjoy Bob, and was bummed to see him go...but it wasn't like seeing Hershel go down. On the other hand, they couldn't kill off Andrea soon enough to suit me. :) The only way to sustain that "everybody's expendable" ethos is to have a ceaseless supply of outstanding actors who can carry the show as well, or better, than the actors who get the axe--I don't see it...not in the long run.

 

What I'm trying to say is that I think they've painted themselves into a corner in some ways, and this half-season shows evidence of tired or complacent writers who are going to start jumping the shark if they're not REALLY careful. Having the fire truck roll up just in the nick of time is lazy, especially to save two of the most competent and self-sufficient characters on the show (WHY make Michone and Carl stand there like deer in the headlights? It makes NO SENSE!) The entire hospital story--most of us seem to agree--was weak; as though they wanted to show all the Beth-haters that they, the writers, could show us a thing or two, by god.  Additionally, the Glenn/Maggie/Abraham/Rosita/Eugene/Tara escapade was, ultimately, just sort of silly, from start to finish.

 

Who would you be most pissed to see killed off? If they keep Rick, Carl, Michone, Carol, and Daryl, I can live with anyone else dying, including Judith. If we could get old dynamic Glenn and Maggie back, I'd want to keep them, too, but right now I'm pretty meh on both of them.

[NoWillToResist]

Rick put his hand out to her and pulled her head towards him briefly, but Beth did no embracing and the minute he released her she just looked back at the hospital crew. As she was standing with Dawn and waiting for the exchange, she stared blankly, off and on, at Rick's crew ( I know that was her usual expression, but come on! She's being rescued from a life of indentured servitude, future beatdowns/facial scarring and rape) but didn't smile in even the smallest way, looked pleased or even relieved. It was as though she were facing strangers.

 

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Beth finds out that her people are rescuing her and Carol. They searched for her, found where she was, and came to get her. And, hell, at that point when Beth was released, shit hadn't even gone sideways! But Beth was a walking zombie. She meandered towards Rick and accepted his hug thing but didn't make any gesture of her own, then merely walked towards the gang, not even making any eye contact with Daryl, with whom she'd bonded a less than a week ago. Watching that was a giant WTF for me. She didn't look like she was happy to leave and it was as if she had no feelings about these people at all. In her place, I can't imagine not fucking RUNNING towards my 'family', thanking them for coming for me, and hugging the everlovingfuck out of anyone I could reach. :)

 

I'm also trying to figure out her hug with Noah. Was that a goodbye hug? Did she think her group would leave Noah behind? She wasn't going to try and lobby for him to be freed? Was it a fake-out to get her closer to Dawn so that she could attack her?

Edited December 4, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[GreyBunny]

Noah went back to Dawn, so Carol and Beth heading "home" wouldn't mean much, IMO. Also, I did not see any eagerness from Carol or Beth to get back to their group. Dawn and the doctor knew Beth wanted out, but no one else would have. And their reunions with CDB were so clinical, I wouldn't be surprised if the not-in-the-loop hospital people thought that B&C were more resigned to going back with Rick. Beth didn't rush to them or embrace anyone. Neither Beth nor Carol made a peep as the exchange went down. Hell, outside the few cops in the know, this Rick guy has taken some of their cops hostage and is demanding the return of two of "his" people (whom the hospital "rescued"). He could be viewed as the aggressor. Throw in that he looks like shit and I have NO problem believing that no one outside of Noah was interested.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the few who knew the crap that went down in the hospital, felt that things would be good now because they'd feel that the "bad" people in their group had been taken out. So all that's left are the "good" people who want to hunker down, save some people and create some sort of society. They may be doomed to repeat the pattern, but maybe not.

 

I do have one question though...there's a lot of talk about the rapey cops. But, unless I misheard, I thought Dawn said something during her struggle with that cop that some of the cops stood by and/or laughed while THAT GIRL was raped. "Girl" is singular. So, perhaps the rapey times was not some standard trend there. Was it just the one girl who got that 'special' treatment? Perhaps rape wasn't some omnipresent threat?

 

Beth tried to escape, Noah did escape.  Some of the others might not have known Beth had left and was recaptured but they knew Noah was gone.  When the hostage exchange happened, Neither Beth nor Carol said, "I want to stay at the hospital."  They both wanted to leave, even Carol with injuries that could have gotten better treatment at the hospital (provided that Dr. Sketchy didn't kill her).  Noah also wanted to leave with them but chose to stay to try to prevent a shootout.  They might not repeat the pattern but considering the history of the hospital group and the personalities involved, the risk is high that it would.  It's happened twice, I'm not sticking around for strike three.  Rick's group was grimy and roadworn but they cared for their own, they didn't look like they forced their women to keep the men "happy."

 

There was definitely a rape problem going on.  If even one assault happened and the cop got away with it that would be a big, honking clue that things were fucked up.  I'd want to leave.

 

They probably didn't have big, slobbering reunions with Beth and Carol because they needed to keep their guard up.  They were in a narrow hallway facing off against a hostile group with guns drawn and they didn't know if someone else who was armed might be hiding around a corner or trying to sneak up behind them.  Hugs can come later, provided no one does something stupid and fucks things up. Oh wait...

Edited December 4, 2014 by GreyBunny

[SoSueMe]

Sometimes the death of a character, even a loved and valued character, is what makes great drama. I am thinking back to Jim and Sophia. Their deaths had a more haunting impact on me than any contrived plot that would include them living.

 

Beth's death on the other hand was so stupid and poorly written and acted, it just reinforces my relief that she is out of there. Sorry Beth fans. 

[RedheadZombie]

Concerning the daycare: No one could or would put toddlers through the hours-long makeup sessions needed to turn them into zombies. No one on the show, I mean. I'm  sure there are parents out there crazy enough to be willing to that or anything else to get their kids on TV!

They could certainly show older child walkers by hiring very short, adult extras/actors, but maybe it's thought that no one wants to see little kiddy zombies?

 

I think you give some parents too much credit, have you seen Toddlers and Tiaras?  There are parents out there willing to torture their kids for a crappy trophy!  I think many parents would be willing to subject their children to this, but luckily it's probably too much trouble for the makeup people.  I remember posters who complained in that scene in the pre-school -  they wanted to see zombie babies.  I was glad to not see them.

 

Another poster spec'd that perhaps the goo goo stuff was representative of his son. I wondered if maybe the bullet represented what he couldn't do for his wife? Shoot her? Because she was the one that killed Duane. Maybe it's a reminder to himself of how he slipped up and that he can't do that again?

 

In The Road, the father made sure to save two bullets for him and his son.  I thought Morgan had saved it for suicide, but felt he no longer needed it . 

 

 

I also have a big problem with Noah going along with Dawn. I get that he didn't want to cause trouble and that he wasn't Rick's problem, but since Rick immediately defended Noah, IMO, Noah should have just shut the fuck up and waited to see what would happen. Why on earth did he think that Dawn would win that showdown? Her own people objected, FFS.

 

I don't blame Noah, but I think they should have shown more dire circumstances for him at the hospital.  He was fed and clothed and did chores.  Doesn't sound fun and no one should be a forced servant, but he wasn't part of the rape ward, and by that alone he had it better than most of the women.  I'm not saying show him being raped, but at least imply a nasty beating.  And by a beating, I mean more than Beth's slap across the face, and more than whatever punishment he took for Beth that left him looking perfectly healthy.  And since Beth sacrificed herself for him, I think they should have let us (through her) get to know him better.  I like him though - but I'm pretty easy that way.

[Pete Martell]

I don't blame Noah, but I think they should have shown more dire circumstances for him at the hospital.  He was fed and clothed and did chores.  Doesn't sound fun and no one should be a forced servant, but he wasn't part of the rape ward, and by that alone he had it better than most of the women.  I'm not saying show him being raped, but at least imply a nasty beating.  And by a beating, I mean more than Beth's slap across the face, and more than whatever punishment he took for Beth that left him looking perfectly healthy.  And since Beth sacrificed herself for him, I think they should have let us (through her) get to know him better.  I like him though - but I'm pretty easy that way.

 

We heard him screaming in pain and pleading for mercy, IIRC. Not all beatings are shown on the face. 

 

They could have spent more time showing his predicament, but I thought they got across how dehumanizing the place, and his role, was. 

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Beth finds out that her people are rescuing her and Carol. They searched for her, found where she was, and came to get her. And, hell, at that point when Beth was released, shit hadn't even gone sideways! But Beth was a walking zombie. She meandered towards Rick and accepted his hug thing but didn't make any gesture of her own, then merely walked towards the gang, not even making any eye contact with Daryl, with whom she'd bonded a less than a week ago. Watching that was a giant WTF for me. She didn't look like she was happy to leave and it was as if she had no feelings about these people at all. In her place, I can't imagine not fucking RUNNING towards my 'family', thanking them for coming for me, and hugging the everlovingfuck out of anyone I could reach. :)

 

I'm also trying to figure out her hug with Noah. Was that a goodbye hug? Did she think her group would leave Noah behind? She wasn't going to try and lobby for him to be freed? Was it a fake-out to get her closer to Dawn so that she could attack her?

 

Beth was traumatized and likely trying not to feel much of anything, especially around people she hated. I think if she'd gotten out of there, she would have been more demonstrative, but even then I think the hospital took most of that side of her away.

 

I think she knew the group would leave Noah behind. She tried to walk forward to object, but she wasn't noticed. At that point I think she was trying to accept Noah's choice, until Dawn made the crack to Noah.

[RedheadZombie]

It's tempting to stay, but I'd know that supplies at the hospital were running low; food and electricity and water can't last forever.  It would only be a matter of time before everyone needed to do what this filthy band of marauders was already doing.  I'd leave with Rick's group because it looks like they already know how to survive and I could learn from them rather than be trapped with a bunch of people who wouldn't know what to do when the lights finally went out for good.  

 

Plus they had women and children and, with Beth and Carol's rescue attempt, they care for and go to great lengths to protect their own.  I'd rather be with a band that was loyal than with some cops, wards and a doctor who could turn on you in a moment's notice to save their own skin.

 

I have no idea if I'd go. It certainly would be the logical choice for the female rape wards.  But let's say they asked Rick a few questions to help them decide.

 

Wards:  Well, where are y'all headed?

Rick:  Well, you see...... we were going to DC to save the world, but that fell through. *scratches head, looks down*  So, yeah, um - I don't know.  We're just going to all climb in that big fire truck and see where the road takes us.

Wards:  Where y'all plan on sleeping tonight?

Rick:  Good question, got any ideas?  We're real used to sleeping outdoors.

Wards:  You guys got any food or water?

Rick:  Well ....... can you share some of your food?  We've got some brown water we got out of a puddle that we strained.

Wards:  Why's that guy laying there unconscious?  Why is that priest dramatically limping around like that?

Rick:  Well the unconscious guy lied about a zombie cure so we gave him what for, and the priest ran from safety and lead a zombie horde back to my baby and son.

Wards:  Are you folks always covered in blood?  Do you ever bathe, shave, or change clothes?

Rick:  *gets right up in their faces, doesn't make eye contact, whispers* That's for pussies! 

[AngelaHunter]

Wards:  Well, where are y'all headed?

Rick:  Well, you see...... we were going to DC to save the world, but that fell through. *scratches head, looks down*  So, yeah, um - I don't know.  We're just going to all climb in that big fire truck and see where the road takes us.

Wards:  Where y'all plan on sleeping tonight?

Rick:  Good question, got any ideas?  We're real used to sleeping outdoors.

Wards:  You guys got any food or water?

Rick:  Well ....... can you share some of your food?  We've got some brown water we got out of a puddle that we strained.

Wards:  Why's that guy laying there unconscious?  Why is that priest dramatically limping around like that?

Rick:  Well the unconscious guy lied about a zombie cure so we gave him what for, and the priest ran from safety and lead a zombie horde back to my baby and son.

Wards:  Are you folks always covered in blood?  Do you ever bathe, shave, or change clothes?

Rick:  *gets right up in their faces, doesn't make eye contact, whispers* That's for pussies!

 

 

How I wish I could give this more than one thumb up!

[Nashville]

One thing stood out out when Daryl ventilated Dawn's frontal lobe; who's taking Dawn's place - Sheila the Wonder Horse (the female cop CDB had captured). 

 

When Dawn went down, every Grady cop surged forward with their guns up - until Sheila stood them down with a word. 

 

So the Grady Memorial Finest Kind Whorehouse will continue business as usual - just under new management.

[Darknight]

I think there are parents who would allow their kid to be a zombie in TWD. Sophia was. Along with a few other kids. Even if it might take 100 hours in makeup, thanks to advanced technology they could easily add a group of young kids even babies with the walkers.

My favorite deaths were Shane, Lori, Andrea. Especially Shane. My gosh he was annoying, selfish, bitter, self centered. It's kinda sad Beth died. I always viewed her as the goody two shoes. Daddy sheltered her and with him being gone she was semi starting to see what was out there with Darryl.

Also can anyone tell me how people began walkers? Was it a virus or disease people caught and it spread? I'm kinda just tuning in

[Nashville]

I think there are parents who would allow their kid to be a zombie in TWD. Sophia was. Along with a few other kids. Even if it might take 100 hours in makeup, thanks to advanced technology they could easily add a group of young kids even babies with the walkers.

I could easily see a photo of your ZombieTot becoming the hot new Christmas card option of the season.

 

My favorite deaths were Shane, Lori, Andrea. Especially Shane. My gosh he was annoying, selfish, bitter, self centered. It's kinda sad Beth died. I always viewed her as the goody two shoes. Daddy sheltered her and with him being gone she was semi starting to see what was out there with Darryl.

The three you mention make me sad they can only come back from the dead once - if only because I could easily be entertained by watching them get killed over and over again a few dozen times.

 

Also can anyone tell me how people began walkers? Was it a virus or disease people caught and it spread? I'm kinda just tuning in

Welcome to the monkey house, and don't feel bad - the writers don't even know how the Zombie Apocalypse (ZA) started, so you're in good company.  :)

[AndySmith]

 

Who would you be most pissed to see killed off?

 

Probably at this point, Michone, Glenn, and Daryl.

 

I wouldn't be sad to see Gabriel and Eugene get killed off. And I'd probably cheer if Rick and Carl were killed.

[Guest]

I think there are parents who would allow their kid to be a zombie in TWD. Sophia was. Along with a few other kids. Even if it might take 100 hours in makeup, thanks to advanced technology they could easily add a group of young kids even babies with the walkers.

 

I've been restraining myself because of the ick factor; but I think there is a logical reason there is no roving band of kid zombies.  Eaten.  People have to die naturally or have to get bitten but be strong enough to get away before being fully consumed or having their brains eaten so they can turn.  Its less likely that a kid can get away from a full grown adult zombie once attacked savagely enough to turn.  Babies aren't running anywhere.

[kikismom]

I've been restraining myself because of the ick factor; but I think there is a logical reason there is no roving band of kid zombies.  Eaten.  People have to die naturally or have to get bitten but be strong enough to get away before being fully consumed or having their brains eaten so they can turn.  Its less likely that a kid can get away from a full grown adult zombie once attacked savagely enough to turn.  Babies aren't running anywhere.

This leads me to a question I've wondered for a bit now...if Father Gabriel buried all his congregation that was attacked by walkers outside the church, hadn't some of the attacked already turned?

I doubt he rushed out there right away. Let's say 30 people---it was a smallish rural church---I've said before that I can't see that wuss digging hard enough to make even a mass grave. But how would all of them be dead-eaten-not-reanimated?

Shane turned fast, Randall turned fast, we just saw the baseball bat guy at Terminus became a walker by the time Rick looked back at the fence! Very few adults get completely eaten; usually only when they are the only human around to eat (Lori, backpack guy, eyeglasses guy.)

Also, the first thing Father Pee-Pants did was puke at the sight of other people killing walkers---I'm supposed to believe that he killed any reanimated parishioners?

 

If they were all dead, then he either waited silently for 6 months for the walkers to go away---and it's been established that if they aren't being lured somewhere by sound smell or sight of new prey they just shuffle where they are---or he fought them which he would never do.

And if there was such a huge herd that all the people from his church were munched down to the bone, it would have been a big enough herd to turn that church to toothpicks. That church is a POS compared to Herschel's house, and Daryl said that herd would tear the house down.

 

But now Gabriel is a member of the group, because he only lied and he only fed his own people to the wolves basically, and he only led a herd to the shelter of his new friends including the group leader's son and infant daughter. But it's okay because after they almost got killed defending this mess he said oops now I get it, imagine how embarrassed I am, my bad!

I still think he should be left behind.

[nachomama]

I think Father Pee Pants needs to spend eternity with Kirk Cameron, that's a fate worse than being a walker. 

 

And it's just now hitting me that I shant have my show to chat about next week. sad face, cuz even when it sucks I still wanna say it sucks. 

[AngelaHunter]

I still think he should be left behind.

 

After your long reiteration of his useless, lying, chickenshit ways, think he should be dragged out and fed to zombies, a la Martinez. He very well MAY be, if Rick "No Fucks at All" Grimes finds out how he nearly got his kids eaten.

 

FPP has one distinction, I must say: He makes Eugene look good.

[NoWillToResist]

I think the thing is, it's ok to be scared in the ZA. Hell, you SHOULD be scared. Especially if you've been somewhat insulated from the worst that's out there. You can even be weak and not up to some of the heavy lifting (both literal and figurative). What I have little to no tolerance for is stupidity...and in particular stupidity which endangers the people who have, out of the goodness of their hearts, taken you in.

So Gabriel and Tyreese are officially on my shit list right now.

[JackONeill]

I think the thing is, it's ok to be scared in the ZA. Hell, you SHOULD be scared. Especially if you've been somewhat insulated from the worst that's out there. You can even be weak and not up to some of the heavy lifting (both literal and figurative). What I have little to no tolerance for is stupidity...and in particular stupidity which endangers the people who have, out of the goodness of their hearts, taken you in.

So Gabriel and Tyreese are officially on my shit list right now.

It's interesting to use Tara as a comparison.  She'd been relatively secluded (not alone, alone, but . . .).  Sure she acted cocky at first, but then she saw what the world had become.  Thing is: she coped, and can take out a Walker.  Maybe she's a little goofy, but I'd rather her have my back than FPP or Tyreese.

[NoWillToResist]

It's interesting to use Tara as a comparison.  She'd been relatively secluded (not alone, alone, but . . .).  Sure she acted cocky at first, but then she saw what the world had become.  Thing is: she coped, and can take out a Walker.  Maybe she's a little goofy, but I'd rather her have my back than FPP or Tyreese.

 

Carol was the same. And Carl. They both adapted. How sad is it that I would sooner count on 12 year old (or whatever he's supposed to be) Carl to protect me than fully-grown adult Tyreese or Gabriel?

Edited December 4, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Boofish]

I know the list of "Why I hate/don't mind/love Tyrese" has probably been exhausted but what pains me the most is when he needed safety he vowed to "do what he had to do" Remember these famous last words "If you have problems with another group, we can help you with that too" He is the ultimate floater. I would put him on the top of the useless list. Eugene and Father Pee Pants never said they would help kill walkers or anyone else for that matter and never pretended to be of any use to anyone. Tyrese is the worst

[AngelaHunter]

I know the list of "Why I hate/don't mind/love Tyrese" has probably been exhausted

 

I have an inexhaustible reserve of hate.

 

"If you have problems with another group, we can help you with that too"

 

I wonder what exactly he meant by that. Maybe, "If you have a baby hanging around, I'll hold it while I send my sister into the fray. How's that?"

[Nashville]

I have an inexhaustible reserve of hate.

 

Were you ever in Middle TN around the early 80s?

I think we may have dated.

[NoWillToResist]

I know the list of "Why I hate/don't mind/love Tyrese" has probably been exhausted but what pains me the most is when he needed safety he vowed to "do what he had to do" Remember these famous last words "If you have problems with another group, we can help you with that too" He is the ultimate floater. I would put him on the top of the useless list. Eugene and Father Pee Pants never said they would help kill walkers or anyone else for that matter and never pretended to be of any use to anyone. Tyrese is the worst

 

Hm. Interesting. I had forgotten about that. I'd say that almost puts Tyreese on par with Eugene. Eugene had no useful skills and lied so that others would look after him. Tyreese is built like a brick shit house but is a pacifist, so he too says words which will encourage others to let him join their group.

 

Eugene's lies got people killed. Tyreese's haven't yet, but there's still plenty of time because he's still lying to the group, AFAIC.

[nodorothyparker]

They also listed Bob as one of the people Eugene's lie supposedly got killed.  Which other than the two of them generally inhabiting the same space they really had nothing to do with each other at all.  So I'm not taking that master list of 8-9 people they rattled off as dying because of him as gospel. 

 

They were following Abraham, after all.  The same guy who intended to take his half of our gang straight through a mega herd and truly believed Dr. Mullet was a scientist.

[NoWillToResist]

They also listed Bob as one of the people Eugene's lie supposedly got killed.  Which other than the two of them generally inhabiting the same space they really had nothing to do with each other at all.  So I'm not taking that master list of 8-9 people they rattled off as dying because of him as gospel. 

 

They were following Abraham, after all.  The same guy who intended to take his half of our gang straight through a mega herd and truly believed Dr. Mullet was a scientist.

 

Hee. I didn't even listen to the names of the people whose deaths Eugene was allegedly responsible for. I presume that most of the people lost along their way (before meeting Rick's gang) could be put at Eugene's feet because the journey they were on was based on his lie.

Edited December 4, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Pete Martell]

But now Gabriel is a member of the group, because he only lied and he only fed his own people to the wolves basically, and he only led a herd to the shelter of his new friends including the group leader's son and infant daughter. But it's okay because after they almost got killed defending this mess he said oops now I get it, imagine how embarrassed I am, my bad!

I still think he should be left behind.

 

If they start leaving behind group members for horrible and cowardly decisions based on what they thought would help them survive, they'd have very thin numbers indeed. 

 

If he regrets his behavior and tries to become productive, I don't see why he shouldn't stay. If he continues to be a coward and selfish, then I'm sure he won't last long. 

[diebartdie]

Unless he starts babysitting Judith all the time, then being a coward is acceptable

[Pete Martell]

They also listed Bob as one of the people Eugene's lie supposedly got killed.  Which other than the two of them generally inhabiting the same space they really had nothing to do with each other at all.  So I'm not taking that master list of 8-9 people they rattled off as dying because of him as gospel. 

 

They were following Abraham, after all.  The same guy who intended to take his half of our gang straight through a mega herd and truly believed Dr. Mullet was a scientist.

 

I tend to put those deaths on him (I don't put Bob's on him - I think whoever said it was just angry and shocked) because those people all died for his mission. They were traveling with him for that reason (Bob was not). But they were all adults, presumably, so it was their choice in the end. Still, I can see why Rosita blamed him.

Carol was the same. And Carl. They both adapted. How sad is it that I would sooner count on 12 year old (or whatever he's supposed to be) Carl to protect me than fully-grown adult Tyreese or Gabriel?

 

We saw Carol and Carl change over a period of several years, with a large group. We have only seen Gabriel, who has been isolated up to now, for a few episodes. 

 

It mostly just depends on who you're with and what you take from them. Glenn found Tara and she was inspired by him and also honed her own positive qualities. 

 

Maybe Gabriel will do that with Michonne or someone else. I can't imagine they will keep him having him do this for seasons.

 

I hope.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Pete Martell

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Eugene's lies got people killed. Tyreese's haven't yet

 

True. Bob would have died anyway from his bite, but he could have gone in a merciful way and been spared the horrific torture he suffered at the hands of the Termites, if not for sensitive, anguished, pacifist Tyreese being too ball-less to finish off the murderous, sadistic, baby-killing cannibal and then lying about it.

[Pete Martell]

I think there's a good chance the Terminus group would have found them anyway (not that it excuses Tyreese's lie).

[mandolin]

Well, yes, they'd have found them to bring "tainted meat" to life, but Tyreese having a part in it still looks bad on him.

[GodsBeloved]

Has it been established on the show or on TD that the Termites found the church because Martin lived? Or is this just fan speculation?

 

Also, the talk about Rick not staying at the hospital because he didn't want to expose his kids to rapists, was it said that Rick knew about that or is that too just fan speculation?

Edited December 4, 2014 by GodsBeloved