"The View": Week of 11/24/14

[Medicine Crow]

I loved that Laverne bitch-slapped Whoopi for saying she was delayed four hours because of the protests!!!

[mtlchick]

 

On a lighter note the Tony Bennett Lady Gaga duet was fabulous. I may have to check out the cd.haven;'

I haven't watched it today, but I can't wait to see this.  I have the album and I adore it.

[whydoiwatchtv]

Whoopie is so clearly hated here I wonder why so many people even watch this show ?

Well I can only speak for myself but I love to snark at TV personalities. I don't really hate her but I love making fun of the show and she sucks. If Whoopi doesn't like people having opinions about her opinions, she can get her loud mug off the screen. I can't make fun out of what I don't see. :)

[bannana]

I loved that Laverne bitch-slapped Whoopi for saying she was delayed four hours because of the protests!!!

And of course that led Whoopi into another I am right and everyone else is wrong rant.

[Dissy]

I was in and out during the hot topics. I did hear Nicolle say that Michael Brown was 6' 6" and someone? was saying no. By the time I could pay better attention, she was saying it didn't matter. I had read and heard they were both 6' 4". I found the autopsy report and 6'4" is correct. I just think if you're going to talk facts on a tv show you should have them correct.  Not that it proves or excuses anything but I have a feeling that Brown will be getting taller and Wilson will be getting shorter as time goes on.

[Jpxfactor]

What a crappy show today. I am sick of the stupid dancers and whoopi.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

Me too.  I don't know what factor race played into it, but since it seems like the Ferguson police got major boners when they got to dress up in military garb and spray people with pepper spray that the "dirty cop" problem, men who go into the force because they like the idea of being a bad ass and controlling other people , is the area of major concern here.  As for Rosie Perez's comment that Wilson should have just shot for a leg, I'm not a gun person but I've heard that people who say things like that know little about handguns and that accuracy of aim would be nearly impossible in a heated situation.

I don't think it was a racially motivated shooting, but as others have expressed so eloquently, racism seems to have tinged everything that came after. Wilson himself is not coming off well at all in his interviews, especially since he seems hellbent on using the blatantly racist Zimmerman-authored template of the meek, saintly and defenseless (except for the gun) choir boy up against the mythical Big Black Bogey Man. He was going for my gun! I was in fear of my life! One more punch and I was a dead man!

Save that shit for Hannity.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

I was in and out during the hot topics. I did hear Nicolle say that Michael Brown was 6' 6" and someone? was saying no. By the time I could pay better attention, she was saying it didn't matter. I had read and heard they were both 6' 4". I found the autopsy report and 6'4" is correct. I just think if you're going to talk facts on a tv show you should have them correct.  Not that it proves or excuses anything but I have a feeling that Brown will be getting taller and Wilson will be getting shorter as time goes on.

And younger! Five years old, to be precise.

[ginger90]

Whoopie is so clearly hated here I wonder why so many people even watch this show ?

 

"Hate" doesn't apply to my opinion of Whoopi on The View. Just saying.................

[Medicine Crow]

Wilson compared himself to a five-year-old in the hands of Hulk Hogan!!  Give. me. a. break!!!!

[dumbdownus]

Laverne Cox belongs right at the bottom of the pile of guests with Keke Palmer, what a disgusting individual.........

[Sugarbaker]

Wilson compared himself to a five-year-old in the hands of Hulk Hogan!!  Give. me. a. break!!!!

I was completely waiting on him to add " it was the main event at Wrestlemania, and he jumped off the top rope...."

[car54]

if they ever do another season of Arrested Development, they should ask Gaga to play Lucielle2's daughter.

 

Laverne can come back any time.   She did an excellent job today and I also thought Nicolle had some good thoughts on the news of the day today.

[NextIteration]

Thank you Laverne Cox for bringing up implicit bias.  Not much else to say, Pitbull makes me smile, loved Gaga and Bennett.  Yay! for Whitney (former SYTYCD dancetestant) getting her first mirror ball, glad Ribeiro won.

 

Oh wait, lemme bust out my teeny weeny violin for Whoopi and her commute troubles because peaceful protesters shut down the Holland tunnel.  Try the Washington Bridge, or or or or.... just shaddup already.

[merriebreeze]

 

Whoopie is so clearly hated here I wonder why so many people even watch this show ?

I don't hate Whoopi. I think she's a lousy moderator. She used to have a really hard time reading the teleprompter and would show up stoned and unprepared. She's upped her a game a little recently, maybe due to pressure from the producers or higher ups? She has a difficult time expressing her opinions in a coherent manner. She makes all sorts of excuses for famous people's bad behavior. She resorts to gross bodily function references when she's floundering. She puts down others and their opinions as if she's the final authority on everything. And why does she have such awkward segues or cuts to commercial? She is just not well suited for this job IMO.

[RogerFromOhio]

Im watching the recording of The View....... and it must be said.... Whoopi Goldberg... you are a dumbass

 

She said that police should have a camera on their shirts.... applause... Whoopi silenced the audience and said.... you might not like the rest of this..... then she said cops should have cameras on their shirts for not only our protection... but theirs as well...... more applause

 

Now why in the hell does Whoopi believe that her audience would "NOT LIKE" police being protected by the truth??.... such a dumbass!!

Well said guest host..... To Whoopi.... If there is going to be a revolution people are going to be inconvenienced..... after Whoopi was complaining because protesters shut down the tunnel

[ginger90]

Well said guest host..... To Whoopi.... If there is going to be a revolution people are going to be inconvenienced..... after Whoopi was complaining because protesters shut down the tunnel

 

Whoopi and her commute troubles because peaceful protesters shut down the Holland tunnel.

 

 

I didn't see the show today. Was it today Whoopi was complaining about this? I thought the protests took place last night. Is that what she said? Did she happen to mention WHAT was being protested? She has to know it was about the grand jury decision, I would think. I hadn't heard the Hollond tunnel was involved,  I heard the Lincoln. I guess I heard wrong.

Edited November 26, 2014 by ginger90

[NextIteration]

Lincoln, Holland I get them confused.

 

RosieP also had a video of them going into one of the tunnels, sorry I already deleted it from dvr so I don't have the context.

[kaygeeret]

 

As for Rosie Perez's comment that Wilson should have just shot for a leg, I'm not a gun person but I've heard that people who say things like that know little about handguns and that accuracy of aim would be nearly impossible in a heated situation.

 

I have heard the same thing morbs.

I have always enjoyed target shooting, but have been told by the son of a friend who is a cop as well as my nephew, an Irag combat vet, that accurate shooting in volatile situations where there is yelling, noise and lots of unknowns to evaluate - -  that accurate shots with a pistol are the great exception not the rule.  This is particularly true if the target area is small, like a knee or elbow - both examples mentioned by the panel this am.

 

If it were me and I was afraid for my safety or the safety of others, I would aim for the largest part of the target that I could see.

 

I wonder why police do not carry tasers?  In my ignorance, they would seem to be a less drastic solution.

 

Also very glad to hear a republican speak out on the Trayvon Martin murder, because that is what it was when all is said and done.

 

I thought that the purpose of a grand jury was for the prosecutor to present the evidence and have the GJ evaluate it so make sure it is strong enough to indict.  There is no intention of it being "fair" as in a trial.  The defense is not present and has no right to present contrary information nor to question witnesses.  At least that is what I always thought.  Am I wrong in that?

[ginger90]

Lincoln, Holland I get them confused.

LOL You get them confused and I spelled Holland incorrectly!

I thought Whoopi had them confused. She was there though so she should know!!

Edited November 26, 2014 by ginger90

[NextIteration]

I thought that the purpose of a grand jury was for the prosecutor to present the evidence and have the GJ evaluate it so make sure it is strong enough to indict.  There is no intention of it being "fair" as in a trial.  The defense is not present and has no right to present contrary information nor to question witnesses.  At least that is what I always thought.  Am I wrong in that?

 

Exactly.  And in St Louis County it isn't even practiced 100% of the time (a Grand Jury).  It's been known since the day after the shooting that McCulloch was not to be trusted, he has personal experience that should really require that he be recused from cases like this.

[CathinAZ]

What a show today! Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga were great. His voice isn't quite as melodic as he was in his heyday, but he's still outstanding. I love the respect Gaga shows for the old standards. He is quite a renaissance man and she is a fabulous musician and artist.

I kind of chuckled when Whoppi was going on about her long commute due to the protest. I don't think she was 100% serious....maybe 80% and she knew she'do get some laughs about her rant from the audience!

I watched the policeman's interview with Stephanopolus and he did come off very "Midwestern stoic" and unemotional. so hard with contrasting stories from witnesses to understand what really happened.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[Medicine Crow]

What a show today! Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga were great. His voice isn't quite as melodic as he was in his heyday, but he's still outstanding. I love the respect Gaga shows for the old standards. He is quite a renaissance man and she is a fabulous musician and artist.

I kind of chuckled when Whoppi was going on about her long commute due to the protest. I don't think she was 100% serious....maybe 80% and she knew she'do get some laughs about her rant from the audience!

I watched the policeman's interview with Stephanopolus and he did come off very "Midwestern stoic" and unemotional. so hard with contrasting stories from witnesses to understand what really happened.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

IMHO, she was DEADLY serious & that's why Laverne lashed back at her.

[Medicine Crow]

I want to wish all our American friends a Happy Thanksgiving!!

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

Laverne Cox belongs right at the bottom of the pile of guests with Keke Palmer, what a disgusting individual.........

I'm not familiar with her beyond her participation during hot topics (which is all I saw of the show). Why is she disgusting?

[NextIteration]

@Milk-Eyed Mender, I can answer the who she is but not the why she'd be deemed disgusting.

 

She's a fabulous activist transgender woman, who plays one of the main characters in Orange is the New Black.  She's won quite a few GLAAD awards for her work and her activism.

[Dizzy9]

I know the View will be pre-taped for Friday but I find it interesting that Rosie P is now showing up in the media gossip (NY Daily and Daily Mail) and I wonder how she is going to take it since she is new to live television.  Today's Daily Mail is not kind about her diva behavior and wanting to look like JLO, but since it is a holiday they are probably thinking it won't get any air with the four day hiatus.  Too bad Rosie O is never given this type of break.  She (RP) apparently is not shy about confronting TPTB about working with RO either.  Next Monday I will have to pay close attention.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Dizzy9

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

@Milk-Eyed Mender, I can answer the who she is but not the why she'd be deemed disgusting.

 

She's a fabulous activist transgender woman, who plays one of the main characters in Orange is the New Black.  She's won quite a few GLAAD awards for her work and her activism.

Thanks for the reply! I'm really out of the loop regarding OITNB. I hear references to it all the time, but I try my best to avoid any project starring a Scientologist, in this case Laura Prepon. Anyway, the Laverne I saw for fifteen minutes was articulate, bright and personable, so I was kind of surprised others referred to her as disgusting and was wondering if I missed a particularly foul segment or something. I'm guessing I didn't. Thanks again!

[maggiemae]

Have to say I think Perez does consider herself a diva, in her own mind, imo.

I think I have given her a good chance since I had no opinion of her before. She seems to want all the attention, and if the DM is accurate who does she think she is to make all these demands in 2 months. PLus she really seems to think she is adorable.....really....adorable.

No wonder they are auditioning guest hosts if she will be off for a month. Can't Wait.

[maraleia]

Milk-Eyed Mender you really should give OITNB a try. Don't let Laura's involvement in Scientology sour you on a great show with a diverse cast who portray strong powerful women.

[mtlchick]

Finally watching it now and I want Laverne's entire outfit.  Girl was looking outstanding!  

[RogerFromOhio]

I saw an interview of Mike Brown's mother and her husband by Nancy Grace (who I despise) She was saying that she stayed at the scene until they got him off the street. She said the crowd got unruly when the police brought dogs to the scene and sic them on the people in the crowd. When that didn't help, they drew their guns. The police drew their guns and pointed them at the grieving family, while their sun was covered on the street.

 

Nancy Grace disgusts me.. especially when she sat there and told that grieving woman how she felt when she saw her boyfriends blood drenched shirt...... yes Im sure she wanted that image while she was in such pain. Not sure why Nancy felt she needed to make it about her.

 

For some reason I needed to hear what that woman had to say.... such a sad event and he worse decision by the grand jury... I hope the Justice Department speaks for the Browns

[Tiger]

I'm not familiar with her beyond her participation during hot topics (which is all I saw of the show). Why is she disgusting?

I'm not a regular viewer of this show and don't know much about Ms. Cox beyond the fact that she is transgender and a good actress on OITNB. What I found disgusting were her ignorant views and rude behavior. She, and Perez, both stated the Sharpton/Cramp party lines, despite these things being directly disproven and contradicted by the published report. And then her rudeness to Wallace and Goldberg when they dared to not agree with her was appalling. She really should stick to acting.

[Tiger]

Not a regular viewer of the show, but today I could not follow what she was saying. I honestly don't know how the other women on the panel engage in discussion with her.

[shok]

I agree. The grand jury heard the evidence and didn't find probable cause to charge the officer, from a robbery suspect (on tape).

 

Ah, so now robbery suspects are summarily executed, in broad daylight, in the middle of the street? What a great country.

 

I thought that the purpose of a grand jury was for the prosecutor to present the evidence and have the GJ evaluate it so make sure it is strong enough to indict.  There is no intention of it being "fair" as in a trial.  The defense is not present and has no right to present contrary information nor to question witnesses.  At least that is what I always thought.  Am I wrong in that?

 

You're right, although the purpose isn't to present 'the' evidence, it is to present 'some' evidence, enough to get an indictment to proceed to trial where a judge can rule on what evidence is pertinent to the case and the prosecutors and the defence counsel are subjected to long established rules of procedures and when witnesses say inflammatory things or make impermissible statements, it can be struck from the record and the jury instructed to ignore it. No way would the defendant, in this case Wilson, be allowed to ramble on unchallenged for four hours. 

 

Also, most cases brought to grand juries are because they require some degree of secrecy or privacy, e.g., a child victim, a famous defendant, a witness who is an undercover cop, something like that. It is very unusual to have one for a murder that occurred in broad daylight in front of a number of witnesses, especially another murder of an unarmed black man by a white cop, a situation that is crying out for transparency and justice.

[kaygeeret]

shok, thank you for clarifying the idea I had about grand juries.

 

This makes a lot of sense to me as to why the decision is not/should not be the final "verdict".  Because it was not a trial. Because ultimately, the entire GJ process in this instance at this time doesn't make a whole lot of sense - at least to me now.

 

Because, per a poster farther above, the DA should have recused himself, and this surely plays into the culture in Ferguson that we as outsiders are not really familiar with.

 

The issue is not settled at all.

 

I hope the Justice Dept does a better job.

 

And the constant "teasing" (what a god awful tactic to employ in this case) of the decision by the media was baiting as far as I am concerned.

 

I am not at all saying that the cop was not in fear for his life nor do I believe that this particular teenager was cooperating.  By many credible accounts his mere size could be threatening and if he was being a snarly teenager (and we all know them).....also, the white cop could have felt threatened by the big black kid who pulled a shoplifting thing. 

 

My two brothers and I are white and they both shoplifted in their teens - I as the perfect oldest sis did nothing of the kind, but I remember coming VERY close.  As adults they laughed about it, but kids were not killed in the street for shoplifting in our teen years.

 

We need a better investigation that is complete.

 

That said The Washington Post has released the entire GJ transcript on their website and it is a huge file.  I do not have the time or patience to download or read it, but someone here could be interested.

[goldenpuppy]

I really like Rosie, and most of the time ITA with her. I agree with her about the Ferguson situation.  But, I think she is not suited for a discussion format.  She is best when she is alone and can talk without being challenged. I loved her show on Sirius.  

 

On the View, I think Rosie is at her worst.   She is either angry and looks like she is seething when anyone disagrees with her, or she is sitting their saying nothing. 

 

As much as I like Rosie a lot, I think she is way way biased, to the point where she can't see past her own experiences at times.   For instance,  she somehow felt Monica Lewinsky was  "remarkable women".  Really? Why? What has Monica done to show that she is remarkable? 

 

I think because Rosie has been victimized, she can't see past her own experiences,  just verbalize her opinion, and not go overboard if someone disagrees with her.  I agree with her about Cosby, but she basically was attacking the other co-hosts for not totally agreeing with her.  She looked pissed, and it seems like Rosie P was almost a bit afraid to express her opinion.

 

I hate to say it, but today finally Nicole and Rosie P looked more comfortable.  Rosie wasn't there looking like she was going to attack if  Nicole dared present any view of the cop that did not agree with Rosie.

 

I may not agree with people, but I like the give and take, and as much as I enjoy Rosie, she does come off as a bully in many ways, or she sits and sulks. 

 

Also, I wish we had the perspective of a black male on this show.   There is a really interesting Facebook post from an NFL player,  Benjamin Watson,  that makes more sense than all of the commentators, celebrities and news people.   He is very honest about his feelings, and it's not so one sided.   I think that many celebrities like Rosie P,  and Rosie jump to conclusions based on the media, which is going for ratings ( it is November afterall), and none of them have lived the life of a black male.  The facebook post by Watson will surprise many.  He is just expressing his feelings.   He feels conflicted in some ways,  fearful, and also seems to be able to see both sides on some level.

 

Lately, as much as I am a democrat and no way will I vote for the republican party as they are right now,  I am annoyed with know it all celebrities, who just jump on the bandwagon and are so biased.  I may not agree with

Nicole on many things politically, but I do like hearing another point of view when it's stated intelligently - not like with Elisabeth or  Sherrie!

 

I have a feeling that Rosie will not be long for this show, but if she goes, I hope she will consider doing another radio show, or a show where she interviews a guest, like Charlie Rose, as someone suggested to her).

 

I think Whoopi needs to go and be lazy at home. She's an egotistical, uniformed, arrogant celebrity.   She needs to go back to playing cartoon characters in kids' movies.   Rosie P,  I don't know about yet. At times I like her, but I hate to say it, her voice is so darn annoying

 

I actually think Nicole should  be the moderator.  Some have suggested Rosie, but Rosie is not capable of being a moderator, She will not let others express an opinion without arguing a point into the ground and taking things personally. Rosie P is like that too at times.

 

The original panel worked on this show because it was not filled with celebrities who have a lot of opinions, but may not always have all of the infornation they need.  They need to go back to that format,  And also they need to know when to stop beating a topic into the ground. 

 

[suomi]

Yah, this would be a much better country if robbery suspects could punch cops in the face, wrestle them for their weapons and attempt to shoot them while doing so*, and then be allowed to flee the scene without further ado. I'd give my left tit to live in a paradise like that.

 

The GJ system is being criticized because the "wrong" decision was reached but if it had returned a True Bill we would hear it praised as the cornerstone of our legal system and the roar of the hallelujah chorus would be deafening. MB fought the law, and the law won. Better luck next time.   

 

MB's mom is being investigated for felony armed robbery after she, her mother, and her posse of 20-30 people brawled with the paternal grandmother and a cousin who were selling "Justice for Mike Brown" t-shirts. Mom punched the grandma and one of her posse beat the cousin with a metal pipe before they ran off with $400 cash and $1500 in merchandise. Mom also doesn't believe that is really Mikey in the convenience store robbery video, even tho his crime partner Dorian Johnson admitted the theft that day. Something tells me that the shooting incident is not this family's (or MB's) first rodeo.  

 

Something also tells me that we won't hear any of this among the platitudes being spewed on The View. So I think if they are too chickenshit to discuss the big picture then they are better off ignoring the subject.

 

Any guesses on the dollar amount in the civil suit?

 

*All of which was admitted by the Brown family atty, not only this week but for many previous weeks, followed by "but ... this" and "but ... that."

[bannana]

Thank you Laverne Cox for bringing up implicit bias.  Not much else to say, Pitbull makes me smile, loved Gaga and Bennett.  Yay! for Whitney (former SYTYCD dancetestant) getting her first mirror ball, glad Ribeiro won.

 

Oh wait, lemme bust out my teeny weeny violin for Whoopi and her commute troubles because peaceful protesters shut down the Holland tunnel.  Try the Washington Bridge, or or or or.... just shaddup already.

I forgot to mention, Whoopi's whole rant against the protesters was finally based on the premise that they were preventing the proletariat from getting to their low paying jobs--they would be responsible for the little people losing their jobs because of their protest!  She wagged her finger and ranted and SHAMED them for their lack of consideration!  When we all know she really was pissed sitting in her limo on her way to the View.

[CathinAZ]

She did seem really flustered about sitting beside Lady Gaga and Tony Bennett. She'd mentioned a while back about Bennett being a favorite of her Dad and that he had a special meaning and place in her heart for him. She was quite verklempt (sp?) to be there with him!

[shok]

I hope my posts don't sound as vitriolic and full of nasty gossip. I have spent hours reading the transcripts and many many many expert legal and sociological analyses and I do feel I have some knowledge of the events. I may be white but I'm thankful I don't feel I have been endowed with white privilege.

[NextIteration]

And the constant "teasing" (what a god awful tactic to employ in this case) of the decision by the media was baiting as far as I am concerned.

 

It wasn't just the media, they were only reporting what McCulloch (District Attorney), Nixon (Governor) and the St Louis Police were doing and saying in the run up to the decision.  That's what Ro was getting at last week when she said they knew that what the decision would be and they knew that people were going to be pissed off and the reaction was going to be bad, so we got the early State of Emergency and the St Louis Police purchasing all kinds of nasty stuff to deal with the protesters and rioters.  And to me, they are separate entities - there has been a lot of training and effort since the shooting to bolster the peaceful protesters, but it was always anticipated that the troublemakers might return in the chaos of the decision, and sadly they did.

 

I'll repeat Ro's question from Tuesday, why did they release the decision at 8 p.m. instead of during the day or the next morning?  Historically they knew that the bad actors were out at night and not during daylight.

 

Yah, this would be a much better country if robbery suspects could punch cops in the face, wrestle them for their weapons and attempt to shoot them while doing so*, and then be allowed to flee the scene without further ado. I'd give my left tit to live in a paradise like that.

 

The GJ system is being criticized because the "wrong" decision was reached but if it had returned a True Bill we would hear it praised as the cornerstone of our legal system and the roar of the hallelujah chorus would be deafening. MB fought the law, and the law won. Better luck next time.   

 

MB's mom is being investigated for felony armed robbery after she, her mother, and her posse of 20-30 people brawled with the paternal grandmother and a cousin who were selling "Justice for Mike Brown" t-shirts. Mom punched the grandma and one of her posse beat the cousin with a metal pipe before they ran off with $400 cash and $1500 in merchandise. Mom also doesn't believe that is really Mikey in the convenience store robbery video, even tho his crime partner Dorian Johnson admitted the theft that day. Something tells me that the shooting incident is not this family's (or MB's) first rodeo.  

 

Something also tells me that we won't hear any of this among the platitudes being spewed on The View. So I think if they are too chickenshit to discuss the big picture then they are better off ignoring the subject.

 

Any guesses on the dollar amount in the civil suit?

 

*All of which was admitted by the Brown family atty, not only this week but for many previous weeks, followed by "but ... this" and "but ... that."

 

I hope the civil suit is for a lot of money and that they win, hopefully after the DOJ indicts Wilson for involuntary manslaughter.  For me, the GJ process is deserving of criticism because of it's extraordinary nature and because to me, anyone with knowledge of McCulloch's personal history would find it reasonable that he recuse himself because of the nature of this case.  Never mind the unlawful trickery that went on nor the fact that McColloch essentially presented the case with Brown as the Defendant and Wilson as the Plaintiff which is the opposite of what the case actually was.  RosieP brought up witness #10 but the cross talk didn't allow for further discussion of those details.

 

Laverne Cox remarked about the lack of humanity in Wilson during the Stephanopoulos interview, what struck me was the lack of any remorse, I would expect remorse from anyone that killed another human being for any reason.

 

As to the behavior of the family subsequent to the shooting, I find it irrelevant to finding justice in the shooting of Mike Brown, it's the old trope of a perfect victim that often gets used with victims of rape.

[Stacee]

As to the behavior of the family subsequent to the shooting, I find it irrelevant to finding justice in the shooting of Mike Brown, it's the old trope of a perfect victim that often gets used with victims of rape.

Indeed. They are doing it again with the dad of the 12 year old that was recently shot by the police - media is now digging into the dad's past to I guess somehow justify the kid being shot. 

(Your entire post was excellent, by the way - just wanted to specifically comment on the part I quoted)

I hope my posts don't sound as vitriolic and full of nasty gossip. 

They don't, in my opinion. Thanks for that.

[RogerFromOhio]

 

The GJ system is being criticized because the "wrong" decision was reached but if it had returned a True Bill we would hear it praised as the cornerstone of our legal system and the roar of the hallelujah chorus would be deafening. MB fought the law, and the law won. Better luck next time.   

 

The Grand Jury system is not being criticized as much as the prosecutor not doing his job. The presentation of his office had more of a defense feel to it than a prosecutor feel. He got the result he was looking for. He was not speaking for the victim.... he was protecting the police.. a group he works with on a daily basis.

 

If he did his job there would be a trial where the facts could be presented in a fair and open manner for a jury to decide..... the way our Justice system is supposed to work

[Stacee]

The GJ system is being criticized because the "wrong" decision was reached but if it had returned a True Bill we would hear it praised as the cornerstone of our legal system and the roar of the hallelujah chorus would be deafening. 

You may be right. At the same time, if the GJ had returned with a decision to indict, many on the right wing sites and on TV would be calling it a disturbing act, a slap in the face to law enforcement, a travesty of justice and the roar of unfair actions would be deafening. And based on your comments here, my suspicion is you'd be joining in.

 

 MB fought the law, and the law won. 

 

The fact that you describe killing an unarmed young man by the law "winning" is rather strange. I really hope you did not mean it the way it came off.

[Dissy]

Norman Lear tweeted this along with a picture of him and Rosie

 

Norman Lear ‏@TheNormanLear 43m43 minutes ago

Tune in to @TheView tomorrow and see what we make of assholes

[suomi]

shok, on 27 Nov 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

I hope my posts don't sound as vitriolic and full of nasty gossip. I have spent hours reading the transcripts and many many many expert legal and sociological analyses and I do feel I have some knowledge of the events. I may be white but I'm thankful I don't feel I have been endowed with white privilege.

 

You may be right. At the same time, if the GJ had returned with a decision to indict, many on the right wing sites and on TV would be calling it a disturbing act, a slap in the face to law enforcement, a travesty of justice and the roar of unfair actions would be deafening. And based on your comments here, my suspicion is you'd be joining in.

 

The fact that you describe killing an unarmed young man by the law "winning" is rather strange. I really hope you did not mean it the way it came off.

 

I think abortion should be legal and affordable in every state. I think we shouldn't have "rich" and "poor" school districts; I think we should gather the tax money for schools and distribute it equally. I think pot should be legalized. I support gay rights; I'm against any form of gay discrimination. I think the Freedom Riders were among the bravest and most admirable people who ever walked this earth. I support Affirmative Action. I support the Dream Act; I wish Congress would get off its ass and do something for the millions who lost the gene lottery by being born into poverty elsewhere but contribute to our society every day. I can't imagine what it must be like to leave your home and everything familiar because there is no other way to feed your children and provide for them. As for my feeling white privilege or being a right-winger? No.  

 

I think I've provided a sufficient snapshot of who I am, and who I am not. I, too, have immersed myself for hours in both document dumps and will spend many more hours until I'm finished. 

 

This situation would not be what it is today if not for the initial false narrative. "Unarmed" is not synonomous with following a peace officer's commands to stop and to surrender. "Unarmed" is not synonomous with non-combative. The initial narrative was that MB was shot in the back and that the officer then stood over MB and fired his last rounds into MB's head. Those falsehoods among others in the initial narrative are what whipped people into the frenzy we see today. MB's blood inside the vehicle supports DW's account. The blood trail and the position of the shell casings supports DW's account. From many of the interviews and much of the GJ testimony we know that DW fired when MB advanced at a run, backing up as he was firing. When MB paused, DW ceased firing. When MB resumed his advance DW resumed firing and continued to back up, trying to maintain distance between them. At the end of his advance MB dropped within six feet of DW, which is well inside an officer's "danger zone" of twenty one feet. And if that is not fighting the law I don't know what is.

 

Should DW have allowed MB to fire the gun when MB forced it into DW's hip? Should DW have allowed MB to overrun him outside the vehicle? Why? Giving up or giving in is dereliction of duty. If MB had killed DW it would have been merely a blip on Main Stream Media's radar because it is such a common occurrence. Where is the justice in that? I believe that there are valid cases based on race which merit worldwide attention but I am not the least bit convinced that this is one of them.

[shok]

I didn't mention you or your post in mine.

 

And again, I won't bother to refute much of what you've written.

Edited November 28, 2014 by shok

[Stacee]

shok, on 27 Nov 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

This situation would not be what it is today if not for the initial false narrative. "Unarmed" is not synonomous with following a peace officer's commands to stop and to surrender. "Unarmed" is not synonomous with non-combative. The initial narrative was that MB was shot in the back and that the officer then stood over MB and fired his last rounds into MB's head. Those falsehoods among others in the initial narrative are what whipped people into the frenzy we see today. MB's blood inside the vehicle supports DW's account. The blood trail and the position of the shell casings supports DW's account. From many of the interviews and much of the GJ testimony we know that DW fired when MB advanced at a run, backing up as he was firing. When MB paused, DW ceased firing. When MB resumed his advance DW resumed firing and continued to back up, trying to maintain distance between them. At the end of his advance MB dropped within six feet of DW, which is well inside an officer's "danger zone" of twenty one feet. And if that is not fighting the law I don't know what is.

 

Should DW have allowed MB to fire the gun when MB forced it into DW's hip? Should DW have allowed MB to overrun him outside the vehicle? Why? Giving up or giving in is dereliction of duty. If MB had killed DW it would have been merely a blip on Main Stream Media's radar because it is such a common occurrence. Where is the justice in that? I believe that there are valid cases based on race which merit worldwide attention but I am not the least bit convinced that this is one of them.

The autopsy did not definitively confirm nor deny that Michael Brown was shot with his back turned to Wilson, so that point is moot. Experts said the wounds could be seen both ways.

 

There was conflicting testimony as to what happened and McCullen decided to concentrate on ones that did not fit the narrative. To believe the account you describe, one would have to have full faith that what they say happened, and it this point I am not convinced it did the way the police describe. There are some strange inconsistencies in the whole investigation and subsequent behavior by the "prosecutor" during all this. And that is why there were riots and protests; people don't trust what they say happened nor that law enforcement was really interested in getting to the bottom of what really occurred that day. Not only that, but Wilson was describing how he'd been punched repeatedly by a "hulk" and "demon", yet the pictures that came out after the attack ( and no, they did not show orbital fracture like the stories were floating around after the killing suggested) showed not one punch mark to the face.My point is, if you want to point out inconsistencies, it's certainly not on one side. I think Michael Brown reacted because he was scared, perhaps he saw Wilson as a demon and was running for his life. But as you clearly stated, the law was the "winner".

 

As to whether Wilson's actions were racially motivated, I can't say it was...or wasn't. Based on the actions of many police in law enforcement, there seems to be a different standard as it relates to how they deal with Black men/kids and how they approach them. I can't help but see a pattern. All I know is there is a lot of distrust for the police in that community, and I can't blame them.

 

And finally, I am glad you support the causes you state above - I do as well so we have that in common. My point had more to do with your shot about those on this site cheering if the grand jury verdict had gone a different way. To be a little more clear, I was doing a site comparison - that a right wing site would have been as equally outraged as many here have expressed. And that you may have been one of the people who would have expressed the same dissatisfaction, based on your strong comments here about the case. For the record, I was not saying YOU were a right winger, and if it came off like I did, I do apologize. I certainly would not want to be accused of being one either when I am definitely not.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Stacee

[RogerFromOhio]

Edited November 28, 2014 by RogerFromOhio