S04.E08: Smash The Mirror Pt 1 / S04.E09: Smash The Mirror Pt 2

[YaddaYadda]

those footprints could have also been Elsa's or Hook's following Emma to the mansion.

 

But then, Snow looks like a terrible tracker if she's not able to make the difference between a man's footprint, a footprint left by a boot, a flat or whatever Elsa was wearing.

[FabulousTater]

As to the urgency, or lack thereof? There was a sentence uttered about Snow seeing footprints that went off  down the road. Wrong. After walking back and forth while talking to Ingrid, Emma got into her car and drove off! That the line was given to Snow, the bandit/tracker, got me angry. Also, since it was full dark by the time Snowing and Regina and Henry go to where the Bug ran off the road? Why not get in the car and use the headlights to follow the impossible footprints/tracks? (Yes, yes; they couldn't talk about the sex with Henry around. Because he's a tween who doesn't notice girls. Because he seems to be the only child in town.)

No kidding. I think that's one of the scenes that was added to extend this episode to two hours 'cause it just didn't make sense.

 

Ignoring the strangely placed conversation (during a search for Emma who's out to destroy part of herself...hello, sense of urgency, anyone? No? fiiiiine) between Snow and Regina regarding Regina's sex life, Snow makes no sense:

 

Let's see, Snowing and Co. conveniently randomly find the road Emma has most recently been down even after she's been driving all over town, and Snow deduces (from staring at blacktop/asphalt) that Emma got out of the car then got back in and drove off. But they choose to follow on foot because the prints "look fresh" and Emma therefore couldn't have gotten far....WTF?! Emma got back in her car, Snow! She didn't continue on foot! Emma can get as far as how ever fast that bug can travel (Newsflash: distance = rate x time )!

 

I mean really, Emma got back in her car and drove off, but according to Snow, Emma could not have gotten "far" so Snow & Co. pursue Emma (who is traveling in a car!!!) on foot? You're gonna catch up with someone who's in a car by following them on foot??? WTF. That's so stupid. How do they even know Emma's final destination was anywhere in that area? She could've headed off somewhere else (miles away) and yet they choose to go after her on foot? OMG it's so dumb. Just stop, writers. Stop. Your stupid hurts. It hurts my brain.

 

The writers just clearly wanted to jam more talk about Regina's gross crypt sex, adulterous affair with Robin, and have Snow put her good guy seal of approval on it all and tell the audience how fantastic it was and "OMG it's such a good and beautiful thing!" *barf*, so they threw this scene in last minute. That's the only explanation I have for all the stupid.

 

I suspect the original scenes went from Regina talking to the Charmings out of their dumb choices at the loft, to then Snow, David, and Henry coming across Emma at the manor. This scene with them following Emma's car tracks on foot and Snow and Regina's chat while they (slowly!) meandered up the road was all added after the show got their extra hour. Pfft, what a waste of screen time...The Regina Perma-boner strikes again!

Edited November 17, 2014 by FabulousTater

[kili]

No kidding. I think that's one of the scenes that was added to extend this episode to two hours 'cause it just didn't make sense.

 

As a spoiler addict, I can all but confirm this to be true. This scene was filmed later than the rest of 4x08 during the filming schedule of a later episode.

[scarynikki12]

Or else she got cast as an extra for party scenes on Dynasty, Dallas and the like

 

And now I want to read this undoubtedly amazing fanfic.

[Dani-Ellie]

I don't disagree, but I thought it did a huge disservice to the Emma character. She's not that weak or panicked.

 

But she's also never almost dropped a lamp post on her father or blasted back her kid as he tried to take her hand before, either. The way she pulled herself up short as she ran to Henry to make sure he was okay and then held her hands against her chest as if she couldn't trust them broke my heart. It's like blasting Henry was her breaking point. She'd even said to Elsa later that she was pretty much expecting him to be her Anna, her port in the storm where the control would come from. When she hurt him, she lost what little semblance of control she had left.

 

She didn't originally go to Rumple asking him to take her powers. She asked him for help controlling them. It was only after she admitted to him that she'd hurt Henry that he suggested taking them entirely ... because the Dark One knows how to recognize a desperate soul.

 

This is why I can't with Snow and Charming just sitting there letting her go through with it. Talking about it was great, really, but maybe the discussion should have been happening while following the locator-spell-ed scarf? Because they know Emma hurt Henry and they have to know how that would affect her. They have to know that she hadn't come about this decision in a calm, considered manner. Their baby girl was out there panicking, and they were all, "Whatever she decides!" And really, that's great. Parental support of their kids' decisions is wonderful. But I think parents should also suggest consideration and sleeping on a decision, especially one that drastic, so that it's not made rashly or in the heat of the moment. When the Evil Queen is the one speaking sense in the situation, someone's blown it somewhere, heh.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[KingOfHearts]

 

I would be okay with Nonmagic Emma, but then why give her the powers in the first place?

Emma's magic is just one big deus ex machina... that hardly ever gets used in favor of another deus ex machina. (Regina/Rumple) I wish we could have seen Emma learn specific spells or actually dig deeper into it. It's just too random to be an intriguing plot device, and the writers never really thought it through. Regina's magic always supersedes it, so it makes it pretty much worthless. It's only there to say, "Hey everyone! Emma's still the special Savior!" and to put in plot angst like in 4x08. Emma having magic is a great idea, don't give me wrong, but the writers haven't utilized it properly.

 

 

It's like blasting Henry was her breaking point.

Yeah. Emma is the product of True Love, so protecting those she loves is what she's all about. When she hurt Henry, it spoke to her heart profoundly. (It sounds convoluted, I know.)

Edited November 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I believe they confirmed that the final Emma/Rumpel scene was also an add-on which helps explain the seemingly endless will Emma go through the door? cliffhangers.

 

On a completely separate subject, isn't Baby Snowflake like a couple of weeks old at most? Isn't Snow breastfeeding him? How is she out all night and tromping through the woods again the next night without needing to feed the baby every few hours or just relieving the pressure for herself? Is she now breast pumping in the truck and getting one of the dwarves to act as a runner to get the milk to Belle? 

[regularlyleaded]

Emma's magic is just one big deus ex machina... that hardly ever gets used in favor of another deus ex machina.

It's not Emma's magic that's a deus ex machina it's all magic on this show. The writers make shit up left and right according to what the plot demands for all the characters. They don't have any rules of magic at all.

 

Last season it was heartless Regina suddenly pulling light magic out of her ass. And Zelena losing all her magic because it was placed in a pendant that was taken from her (I still think that's stupid). Emma loses her magic because a "kiss curse". And in this episode Regina also could suddenly heal wounds when previously she couldn't do that. Magic is the deus ex machina. The character has nothing to do with it. Emma will be allowed to keep or lose her magic depending on the plot just as Regina has dark magic, light magic, purple pink polka dot magic, can feel love with or without a heart and it's all depending on the plot.

Edited November 18, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Rumsy4]

The fireworks were cute, but when and how did Emma learn to do that? And if she gets upset about something (such as her boyfriend having no heart or lying to her), what's to say she won't lose control of them again?

 

Taking this to the Emma thread. 

[Camera One]

As a spoiler addict, I can all but confirm this to be true. This scene was filmed later than the rest of 4x08 during the filming schedule of a later episode.

 

So you give these writers an extra hour, and they squander the time and spend it on a pep talk to Regina which is bad enough, but a repeat pep talk from the horrific "Bleeding Through" complete with this year's variation of "And I was SUCH a brat".  I would rather have heard what Charming and Henry were talking about. As many mentioned, the pacing of everyone's arrival at the Manor was so nonsensical.  I was wondering if everyone would be getting there from a different direction considering no one else encountered Rumple and Hook at the gate.  

 

Did it not occur to them to bank the extra hour instead of tacking on extra scenes to an existing episode, and thereby disrupting its flow?  Especially when flow is already a problem for them even on a good week.  I was so happy when I initially heard we would get another hour, but seriously, you can't win on this show.

[Aliasscape]

Yeah, we get the Regina peptalk but then Elsa and Snow having a heart to heart about Emma becomes a deleted scene on the news the next morning. Priorities, SHOW.

[KAOS Agent]

This episode was so full of filler I don't know how they even managed to have an extra deleted scene.

[Camera One]

Yeah, we get the Regina peptalk but then Elsa and Snow having a heart to heart about Emma becomes a deleted scene on the news the next morning. Priorities, SHOW.

 

Wow, I had no idea.  I just watched the scene, and that should have been there.  It would have made slightly more sense why Charming and Snow were sitting on the locator spell, if even Elsa was torn.  Not to mention the actress who plays Elsa is amazing and had good chemistry with Ginnifer Goodwin since they haven't had a real quiet scene like that one.  

[KAOS Agent]

Just for fun, I went back to watch the Crypt of Love scene to see what kind of floor is in there. Thankfully, the establishing shot immediately showed it was a cut stone floor. Unless Regina had some sort of bed in there (which would be super, super creepy), that must have been some very uncomfortable sex. Regina dear, you have an entire mansion to yourself. Why on earth wouldn't you just poof yourself and Robin into your nice comfortable bed? You know, the one that's not surrounded by the bodies of your dead parents? It's not the adultery or the fact that Robin is a giant jackass that gets me, I'm working to embrace the madness of it all (it would help if they'd allowed Robin to ditch the wifebeater and go all out shirtless - yes, I'm shallow). I just can't deal with the logistics of them having sex on the floor of the crypt.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Curio]

Just for fun, I went back to watch the Crypt of Love scene to see what kind of floor is in there. Thankfully, the establishing shot immediately showed it was a cut stone floor. Unless Regina had some sort of bed in there (which would be super, super creepy), that must have been some very uncomfortable sex. Regina dear, you have an entire mansion to yourself. Why on earth wouldn't you just poof yourself and Robin into your nice comfortable bed?

 

Not that I want to think about the logistics of that scene any more than I have to, but I would assume that Regina temporarily poofed a bed for them to sleep on.

[KAOS Agent]

But why would you poof the bed there rather than take yourselves to the bed? It's still not right. Sex among dead people and dangerous magical items is just wrong. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

 Sex among dead people and dangerous magical items is just wrong.

 

It wasn't only her dad, but also her mother Cora... and then the empty coffin of her previous boyfriend. It's also the same place where she kept and crushed Graham's heart.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I mean, I guess everyone has their weird kinks... 

 

Okay, moving the topic away from crypt sex. Did anyone else find it odd how Will kept checking out the waitresses walking by in Granny's? I'm assuming he's still looking for Anastasia, and I never really bought him as a huge player in the Wonderland series, so it just seemed a little bit out of character. Unless those waitresses caught his attention because they were blonde and happened to look like Ana.

[kili]

I mean, I guess everyone has their weird kinks...

 

You say kinky, Robin says "Bold and Audacious". He seems to find death and destruction a turn on. They probably used that hand/paw-thing Emma was playing with last season.

[InsertWordHere]

 I just can't deal with the logistics of them having sex on the floor of the crypt.

Wasn't there a secret comfy-looking room in there that Cora used to hide out in at some point? (or did I just read that in a fanfic?)

 

Regardless, even if Round One was in my made-up room, Round Two was definitely on the floor, probably on a poofed in mattress, next to Dad's dead body.

[AudienceofOne]

I think we've officially exhausted crypt sex.

 

I had more of a problem with the fact that Robin was doing it with the woman who, in an alternative timeline, murdered his wife.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Wasn't there a secret comfy-looking room in there that Cora used to hide out in at some point? (or did I just read that in a fanfic?)

There's a secret room where Regina keeps her wardrobe, but I can't remember if it has a lot of comfy furniture suitable for bold and audacious evenings.

 

On to another subject, I actually want the Snow Queen to kill Rumple. After all the crap he's done this season, and Ingrid just being awesome, I'd totally root for her. She'd be doing everyone (including Belle) a huge favor. I just loved that scene where she yelled at him in the end, saying not to underestimate her power. If she obliterates everyone in Storybrooke but Emma, Elsa and herself, I'll be happy.

 

#TeamIngrid all the way.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

On to another subject, I actually want the Snow Queen to kill Rumple. After all the crap he's done this season, and Ingrid just being awesome, I'd totally root for her. She'd be doing everyone (including Belle) a huge favor. I just loved that scene where she yelled at him in the end, saying not to underestimate her power. If she obliterates everyone in Storybrooke but Emma, Elsa and herself, I'll be happy.

#TeamIngrid all the way.

What amuses me about this is that you are not alone in this sentiment. I was looking across the web at some reviews of this episode and almost everywhere I looked everyone felt the same -- they wanted The Snow Queen to win and Rumple have his ass handed to him. The reasons varied, but I just thought it was funny that there's definitely a prevailing wind among viewers of "I hope Snow Queen kicks Rumple's ass and gets her magical sisterhood band going with Emma and Elsa."

 

I mean, I would totally watch a Snow Queen, Elsa, Emma spin-off show. Aside from Ingrid being off her rocker (and I want to keep Hook too), I really have a hard time arguing against this current OUAT fandom zeitgeist. ;)

Edited November 18, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[stealinghome]

Okay, moving the topic away from crypt sex. Did anyone else find it odd how Will kept checking out the waitresses walking by in Granny's? I'm assuming he's still looking for Anastasia, and I never really bought him as a huge player in the Wonderland series, so it just seemed a little bit out of character. Unless those waitresses caught his attention because they were blonde and happened to look like Ana.

I actually assumed the waitress was supposed to be Ruby, and it was a nod to the male population's, er, appreciation of her.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Aside from Ingrid being off her rocker (and I want to keep Hook too), I really have a hard time arguing against this current OUAT fandom zeitgeist. ;)

Hook might survive since he doesn't have his heart. They could keep Marian too, since she's been frozen. I'm sure Emma or Elsa could unfreeze her somehow.

Edited November 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

Hook might survive since he doesn't have his heart. They could keep Marian too, since she's been frozen. I'm sure Emma or Elsa could unfreeze her somehow.

Hmm...well I'm mostly #TeamEmmaElsaBFs4EVAH and I'm already #TeamMarian, so if you can turn that "Hook might survive" into a guarantee that he will, I'll sign on to #TeamIngrid as well.

 

Tell me, what's the signing bonus like for #TeamIngrid? Bucket of ice cream sandwiches, free gallon of choose your own flavor ice cream, gelato? Also, is there a theme song? 

Edited November 18, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Aliasscape]

I never ever agree with tv.com's reviews of an episode since she's so obsessed with SwanQueen and yet...this one she kinda got right a few times. What kind of bizzaro world did I step into...

 

“Smash the Mirror” was supposed to be a big two-part/two-hour episode of Once Upon a Time, but it sort of treaded water for an hour and 30 minutes.

--

Diabolical, but she still gets my begrudging respect for having been dropped off on the streets of 1980s New York barefoot in a ball gown and subsequently clawing her way through this unfeeling world until she became the proud owner of an ice cream franchise.

--

the Charmings were busy [snip] continuing their run as the Worst Fairy-Tale Parents of All Time...Luckily, Regina got wind of the Charmings’ latest attempt to neglect Emma and seriously took them to task for it.

--

BTW, Rumple has now described magic in almost every single episode he’s been in, and each time he's used a slightly different definition that’s surprisingly convenient to the plot. Magic and hope are very elastic concepts, I've learned. Snow:hope::Rumple:magic is basically what’s going on.

--

and we realized that Elizabeth Mitchell had activated her friendship bracelets meaning the plot had finally, FINALLY moved forward, and then Elizabeth Mitchell made her whole big mirror EXPLODE, and then obviously since something had finally happened it was time for the episode to be over.

 

Reviewer still managed to be Regina/Emma obsessed in between some of that but ha, at least she made me laugh a few times.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Aliasscape

[Souris]

It wasn't only her dad, but also her mother Cora... and then the empty coffin of her previous boyfriend. 

 

Well, there you go, you've solved the bed problem.

 

(I'm gonna throw out a Homicide reference here: Emma Zoole!)

[Camera One]

and then Elizabeth Mitchell made her whole big mirror EXPLODE, and then obviously since something had finally happened it was time for the episode to be over.

 

Unfortunately, that was so true.  We already knew what was going to happen in the flashbacks.  We actually already knew what was going to happen with Emma too... someone was going to stop her from losing her magic.  It was just unclear the distance of each scenic route to the Manor, so we didn't know who would get to stop her.  Could it be Henry?  Nope, got blasted away.  Could it be Snow/Charming?  Ha, no way in hell, says Adam and Eddy.  Could it be Regina?  Not this week, too busy with her love life.  Could it be Hook?  Sorry, currently being blackmailed.  Oh, I guess that leaves Elsa, who got to do what Anna tried to do for her. Congrats, you're the only character who came off looking good this week.

[ImogenLeFay]

I just realized, this locator spell really is a useful thing, isn't it? Pour it on something the missing person owned and follow the flying object. It worked out nicely with Emma.

 

...why didn't somebody suggest using that spell to find Anna? They did promise Elsa to find her sister, and even if none of the Charmings could have made the spell, couldn't they at least suggest asking one of their "redeemed" magic using neighbors for some help?

[Camera One]

They didn't because Elsa didn't own anything of Anna's.  Anna's snowflake necklace conveniently fell through cracks in the ice at the Town Boundary Ice Wall.

[ImogenLeFay]

Ah, right, I had forgotten that Elsa lost it. Thanks for clearing it up!

[FurryFury]

What amuses me about this is that you are not alone in this sentiment. I was looking across the web at some reviews of this episode and almost everywhere I looked everyone felt the same -- they wanted The Snow Queen to win and Rumple have his ass handed to him. The reasons varied, but I just thought it was funny that there's definitely a prevailing wind among viewers of "I hope Snow Queen kicks Rumple's ass and gets her magical sisterhood band going with Emma and Elsa."

 

It makes sense, actually. It was the episode where Rumply had knowingly tried to murder the main character, de-hearted her boyfriend and gloated about him having to watch her get killed. Snow Queen, meanwhile, tried to save her despite being imprisoned by Rumple. Oh, and he got away with all the stuff he's done, with the heroes none the wise. I would be surprised if people didn't cheer against him after all that... But hey, it's Once, where people cheer for mass murderers and (mind)rapists. 

Edited November 18, 2014 by FurryFury

[RadioGirl27]

I've been thinking about Hook's red heart and, as much as I love him, I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake from the special effects team. Hook sees himself as a villian and, just s few episodes ago, Rumple was talking about Hook's darkness, so a red heart should have surprised both of them. But neither reacted. So either the special effects failed and we should have seen some black there, or the writers really wanted to show a red heart but forgot to tell the actors to look surprised. Both Colin and Robert can say a lot with a look, so that's all they needed.

Now that I think of it, there is a third option, that the writers weren't trying to say anything about Hook, and this is going to be just another thing that's going to be forgoten in the next episode, without an explanation.

Edited November 18, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[ShadowFacts]

I have some confusion about the yellow ribbon bracelets. Rumpel explained that they took on their own magic because of the sisterly love power. Yet one sister got accidentally killed by another and one imprisoned another. So that sisterhood's symbol strikes me as bad juju. Or is that the point of Ingrid wanting the ribbons because she is nutty and trying to recreate the bond that existed before everything went to hell?

[Dani-Ellie]

They gave up the ribbons before Ingrid killed Helga. Could the ribbons have maybe retained the magic the sisterly true love bond gave them because they weren't being worn when the shit went down?

Edited November 18, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Serena]

The ribbons were a symbol of their sisterly love. As long as they had the ribbons, their love endured. But they gave up the ribbons to Rumple in exchange for a way to cointain/stop Ingrid. That way didn't work, because the "real" way to contain Ingrid's power was the love of her sisters. So Ingrid is trying to recreate the bond she had with her sisters when they had the ribbons - aka, before everything went to shit.

[Amerilla]

Now that I think of it, there is a third option, that the writers weren't trying to say anything about Hook, and this is going to be just another thing that's going to be forgoten in the next episode, without an explanation.

 

Fourth option:  Do we know if Hook has felt Emma up yet? If female magic is stored in the boobs, and if one were to give the ta-tas of The Savior a good squeeze...perhaps that has magical heart-cleansing properties? Surely, that would be common knowledge to a practitioner of magic like Rumpel, and Hook may have been a bit too distracted by the sight of his heart OUTSIDE OF HIS CHEST to have been surprised by it's showroom-new glow.

 

 

 

It wasn't only her dad, but also her mother Cora... and then the empty coffin of her previous boyfriend.

 

I know the crypt sex is grossing everyone out, but you could also see this as foreshadowing, could you not? OQ is banging among the bodies of virtually all the people Regina has loved and who have died as a result of her love.  So look on the bright side: it could be a big old flashing sign that Robin is toast.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Amerilla

[scenicbyway]

Finally got to see the episode...

 

I thought it was really well done.  Characters actually got to have conversations with each other!  Rumple and Emma, Snow and Regina, Hook and Rumple, Hook and Emma's voicemail, Regina and Henry, Snow and Charming, Regina, Snow and Charming, Regina and Robin, Elsa and Emma.  Who knew that we'd get so many conversations with just an extra hour?

 

I'm not really an Outlaw Queen fan because it feels like it hasn't been earned, but I hope that fans that have wanted to see them together are happy now that the "crypt" has happened.  Where's Roland?  Where's Marian?

 

Will has no point in this season.  I get that they wanted to keep the actor and the way to do that was making him regular, but he's been really pointless so far.  For those that didn't watch Wonderland, it's a complete mystery as to why he's there.

 

What mattered the most to me about the episode, was that for all the angst he went through, Hook actually made it to the house FIRST.  He was the one the most desperate to find her, he understands her completely and just as important, he understand Rumple.  It took Rumple literally tying him down to keep him from getting to her.  Rumple may have taken his heart, but Hook has proven time and time again that he will always find Emma and put her first.  I have a feeling that Hook's troubles may come out in the shattered sight spell and Emma will forgive him as easily as Elsa forgave Anna.

 

I don't really get what they are doing with Rumple.  He's decided to go as dark as possible to the point of killing the Savior and finally killing Hook after all this time? His speech at Neal's grave meant nothing, his marriage to Belle means nothing. Pretty much everything that Rumple has done means nothing.  What does he think will happen when he reaches total domination?

 

The DQ is a great villain, especially as a foil for Rumple.  Love that she wants to take him down specifically.

 

The Apprentice, is the Sorcerer, right?  Does it make sense that the Apprentice would've left the hat alone in that big house though?  No one wonders who the house belongs to either?  So many questions.

[HoodlumSheep]

I've been thinking about Hook's red heart and, as much as I love him, I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake from the special effects team. Hook sees himself as a villian and, just s few episodes ago, Rumple was talking about Hook's darkness, so a red heart should have surprised both of them. But neither reacted. So either the special effects failed and we should have seen some black there, or the writers really wanted to show a red heart but forgot to tell the actors to look surprised. Both Colin and Robert can say a lot with a look, so that's all they needed.

Now that I think of it, there is a third option, that the writers weren't trying to say anything about Hook, and this is going to be just another thing that's going to be forgoten in the next episode, without an explanation.

Maybe there were a few dark spots on the side of the heart we couldn't see (where rumple's hand was holding onto it)? I don't know. I'm just rolling with it at this point. Have we seen Killy's heart before, or did it never make it out of his chest?

Honestly, Killy's heart could be the brightest/purest red to ever red and he'd still think of himself as the most horrid person in the world. Maybe all his self-loathing and guilt helped keep it pretty (along with his love for emma and charming)? Still more believable than the whole 3b Regina thing in my opinion.

When you think about it, pretty much everyone should have black spots on their hearts due to offing nameless soldiers in all those flashbacks.

Wouldn't be surprised if they've just given up on keeping track of the heart special effects though. Maybe they didn't have any money left in their special effects fund?

Now that it's been a day or two to contemplate the episodes, I can say I still enjoyed the them for the most part. The biggest issue was probably pacing. You have Elsa and Killy rushing to find Emma, and then there were the Charmings and Regina taking a leisurely stroll.

[Mitch]

Good episode...things moved quickly in Bad CGI land and people in the real world got to have some conversations. Actually, the Regina and Snow convo was a harken back to S1 with the concept of redemption and personal choices and gasp, the mentioned "Free Will." All of that surprised me on the Sunday Slam Bang Disney Princess Promo Adventure Show that Once has become.  Regina was actually on her meds this week and questioning morality and Snow in her own way, was telling Regina that she alone was in charge of her future.  The Snow Queen continues to be a good villain, horrible in some ways, acutally caring about Elsa and Emma in her own psychotic way. I also love that she does not give a damn about Rump except for what she wants and I loved her threat at the end. Rumpie has met his match and she has a rack on her like no bodies business, why is he not besotted?

 

Rumple is back to villain form and damn does he make a good ..well it starts with p and ends in k. The only thing is, he needs to get his ass kicked and loose again and everyone needs to know that he was about to essentially kill the savior.  I have to hand it to the actor, he never lets you feel sorry for Gold, he is a bastard through and through...though it seems that his acting as Rump in CGI land is getting worse, "dearie," every two seconds and those stupid hand movements are getting to be a device. Dump the Imp and let Gold continue on being the main antogonist against the Charmings and Regina. Magic continues to be stupid on this show, (why can't Regina poof her way back to Robin) why on a show obsessed with magic are they so sloppy about it? It was really stupid that the SQ wasnt freaked out by New York but the girl is one cool customer...I would have thought she would question the Apprentice when he conviently comes up with a door way to our world...(Uh Rump, you got duped you fool) and it is full of black smoke...but she just strolls through. I had to laugh up thread with the Dynasty reference..I am suprised the New Yorkers werent thinking she was Linda Evans just coming from filming the Denver Snow Ball or something. What is it with their world and the 1980s? Is it all the glitter, big hair, big cleavage that draws them to that decade?

 

Good one liners everyone had their snark going even Prince Wooden. My absolute favorite line though went to Solid Gold Dancer Rump about annoying Anna..."I like her much better this way, less mouthy!"

 

I hate their CGI but that "Glass Shards aiming towards Anna's eye and then it cracking," creeped me out big time!

Edited November 18, 2014 by Mitch

[Curio]

I asked this question in the Quotes Thread, but I'm re-posting it here because I'm guessing it will be answered quicker in this thread.
 

I'm hoping someone with closed captioning capabilities can help me out here. When Killian is leaving his message for Emma in the pawn shop, does he say:
 
"And I'm sorry. But I hope you never forgive me, because that means you'll get this in time to save yourself."

Or does he say:

"And I'm sorry. But I hope you can ever forgive me, because that means you'll get this in time to save yourself."

I know it's a minor detail, but it actually makes the sentence take on a slightly different meaning depending on which one he uses. I keep seeing the "you never forgive me" quote on the Tumblrs, but I could have sworn he mumbled "you can ever forgive me" in the show.

[Serena]

I heard "you never forgive me".

[Emma]

I heard never forgive me and just checked CC and it says never.

[Curio]

I heard never forgive me and just checked CC and it says never.

 

Awesome, thank you! And his message just became that much more heartbreaking in my head...

[Mitch]

What amuses me about this is that you are not alone in this sentiment. I was looking across the web at some reviews of this episode and almost everywhere I looked everyone felt the same -- they wanted The Snow Queen to win and Rumple have his ass handed to him.

 

I think the main thing is that Rump is such a total misogynistic ahole. He is still pissing and moaning about Milah but it just seems he is mad that someone younger and prettier got her, he killed that servicing girl, and I mean slaughtered her, with blood on his teeth. His main victims of manipulation for trying to get his Dark Curse cast (to get back to his annoying kid) were all women. Zelena was dumb enough to have the hots for him and he totally didn't give a damn, and now he is obviously through with Belle...he was going to toss Emma into that hat which goes God knows where? I love that the Snow Queen thinks of him as the tool he is and I loved her snarling at threat at him.

[kili]

I've been thinking about Hook's red heart and, as much as I love him, I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake from the special effects team.

 

I'm going to presume that dark spots are not permanent. Like how smoker's lungs pink up after ten years of not smoking.

 

Maybe things like "love" and trying to do better hoover up the dark spots and leave you glowing. At the point where Killian has his heart extracted, he's sacrificing himself for the one he loves with all his heart (his heartfelt voice-mail where he was sure that she would never love him again and willing to defy the Dark One). Something like that may be a super-duper  heart stain remover (with extra foaming action). It would also explain why there looked to be no spots evident when Regina split Snow's heart - she was sacrificing herself for love.

[kingshearte]

I'm still really digging Snow Queen. Elizabeth Mitchell is delivering a fantastic performance that is simultaneously in complete, clamp-down control at all times and just as completely batshit crazy. It's amazing and kind of terrifying. It's utter lack of self awareness ("Sooner or later, everyone sees me as a monster" - Maybe that's not "everyone"'s problem?) at its best.

 

As contrasted with Regina's utter lack of self-awareness and personal responsibility that's just annoying, especially when everyone else buys into it, too. I'm preaching to the choir here, I know, but UGH! And I do agree with the suggestion that one of the reasons Rumple is so much more tolerable is that he does accept responsibility for all the awful things he's done. He doesn't stop doing them, of course, so it's not like it makes him a stand-up guy, but it does make him a more enjoyable villain.

 

Also agree on the Emma-Elsa love. I thought, of all of them, it would have made the most sense for her to go find and talk to Emma in the first place, so I'm glad she ultimately did, and that it worked. I too will be sad to see that friendship busted up.

 

I also hope that Hook's enslavement, or at least Emma's unawareness of it, won't be dragged out too long, and I'm looking forward to her bad-assedly rescuing him. I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed reeeeeeeeeally hard that she's the one who does, rather than, say, Regina.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Finally Elsa gets to do something! Nice to see her taking time off from moping around Charming's loft and actually affecting the plot. Here's to her finding Anna soon, though I'll be disappointed to see her go.

 

Nice to see Arendelle Castle from some different views this time. I have my doubts that they've actually made the west wall on their CGI model, though.

 

Ingrid's bedroom was in the east wing? The castle doesn't have an east wing... the east side of the castle is a courtyard and gatehouse. Also, I'm not sure what room that was supposed to be with all the chocolate... the bookshelves and fireplace location looked like the library, but the library doesn't have balconies. The dining room does, and it has a dining table as well, but the fireplace is in a different location and its walls are red. Probably the set designers just don't care, but maybe it's a meta-joke. 

 

Memo to Ingrid: if you have to put a curse on someone to prove your point, it's not actually proving your point. Also if you have to erase someone's memories so they'll continue to love you, it's not actual love. It is convenient that she can use troll magic she's never seen on a mind that's in liquid form, though. 

 

Ingrid probably needed a few years to establish herself before she could create a fake identity good enough that the foster care system bought into it. Heck, she had a whole group of foster kids, so she must have been doing it for a while. Uhm. Bloody heck, just how smart is Ingrid? Because pulling that of from starting in new york in a fancy dress with no paper work or ID... What did she do, get a lead in a broadway production?

If she can sing like her nieces, she could totally do that. 

 

Did anyone else find it odd how Will kept checking out the waitresses walking by in Granny's? I'm assuming he's still looking for Anastasia, and I never really bought him as a huge player in the Wonderland series, so it just seemed a little bit out of character. Unless those waitresses caught his attention because they were blonde and happened to look like Ana.

I thought he was trying not to be overheard. He is a thief, after all, even if he's been 'pardoned'.

 

They didn't because Elsa didn't own anything of Anna's.  Anna's snowflake necklace conveniently fell through cracks in the ice at the Town Boundary Ice Wall.

Couldn't they see it? Isn't there some sort of magic spell they can use to get it back? Or even a mundane solution like a string with a hook on the end. 

[kili]

People like Emma, Belle, and Snow (and even Regina) think [Rumple is] on his way to redemption, and his marriage to Belle only helped seal that lie. Hook was the only one who was able to see through the farce because of his cynical nature. The rest if them bought into the fairy tale.

 

I think a perfect illustration of this is the first encounter that Hook and Emma have with Rumple in the Enchanted Forest. Hook is declaring that he should probably stay away from the castle and Rumple pops up. Emma leaps to re-assure Rumple that Hook  won't hurt him. She never seems to see the danger they are in. Of course, Hook understands. He is no threat to Rumple on his home turf,  but Rumple is a massive threat. Hook is wary of the guy through all their interactions, even nervously taking the invitation from him, but Emma remains oblivoius.  It turns out that he is right because Rumple does try to kill him on sight, allows him to live while useful and then stuffs them in unescapable vault.

 

Hook understands Rumple. Most of the rest of the town is fooled. Emma semi-trusts Rumple because she thinks he is on the same side as her. She needs to learn that Rumple is only ever on his own side - he only appears to be on your side when you happen to be on the same side as him.

 

Her first indication that all was not what it seemed is when he didn't try to make a deal with her. He was giving her magic for free? What is in it for him?

Edited November 18, 2014 by kili