S04.E08: Smash The Mirror Pt 1 / S04.E09: Smash The Mirror Pt 2

[KingOfHearts]

 

While I agree that friendship is indeed magic ( a good friendship that is, not a toxic one), those rainbows I thought were about Elsa and Emma finally and completely embracing who they are.

 

When it happened, and the rainbows came, I thought it was an Act of True Love or something. (In the form of friendship) I actually halfway expected it to unfreeze Marian.

 

Oh the timing. Right after Robin and Regina decided to stay together... that would have been epic.

Edited November 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

Yes, it felt like Chekov's gun thing. You don't show something like that without someone learning the truth. Rumple doesn't count since he already knew. Someone has to have learned about it from that scene. Otherwise it is a waste of emotional energy.

That's literally what this show does best: set up Chekov's Gun and the ignore it. Remember when Regina made that sleeping spell last season and didn't end up using it and everyone was like "oh, someone is going under that spell sometime this season"? Nope.

 

Oh Hook. :( Loved him spilling everything on the voicemail, which Emma will probably check at some point. Rumple taking his heart mean he still can't tell the truth? What does he have to lose at this point? Rumple's gonna kill him, tell Emma he took your heart!

He literally can't tell her now. Rumple has his heart and that controls him. I bet his first order was "shut your mouth".

Edited November 17, 2014 by Serena

[ParadoxLost]

Yes, it felt like Chekov's gun thing. You don't show something like that without someone learning the truth. Rumple doesn't count since he already knew. Someone has to have learned about it from that scene. Otherwise it is a waste of emotional energy.

 

That was for the viewers.  They needed something to reaffirm that Hook can be a good man who is flawed but really loves Emma between caving to Rumpel's blackmail and having his heart taken and becoming a puppet.

 

Let's hope that Outlaw Queen has quenched their thirst for loves scenes because if Captain Swan makes a move toward more intimate while Hook doesn't have his heart and is under Rumpel's control, well that is squicky on several levels.

[Serena]

Let's hope that Outlaw Queen has quenched their thirst for loves scenes because if Captain Swan makes a move toward more intimate while Hook doesn't have his heart and is under Rumpel's control, well that is squicky on several levels.

If Hook has sex with Emma while being controlled by Rumple, does that mean Rumple has sex with Emma?

I just grossed myself out.

[shapeshifter]

Fireworks like on the old Saturday night Walt Disney show! (Ask your grandparents about it.)

ETA, Correction: It was Sunday nights.

I thought Pinocchio was the book author back in season one, no?

Any chance Robin's first wife Marian was secretly an evil witch who transferred her darkness to Regina? *dodging rotten tomatoes and other missiles*

Hook doesn't know that voice mail doesn't live inside the "talking phone." Happy reveal ahead--hopefully. Whom do I now owe a quarter?

Anyway, I'd rather Emma learn from checking her voicemail than getting it relayed by Belle. Belle had to be babysitting, right?

Edited November 17, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Mari]

I just grossed myself out.

Right there with you, Serena.

 

Blech. 

 

It's worse than the crypt sex.  ;)

[snarkastic]

So they deleted the 'Rumple gets the urn dust' scene back in episode 3(?) when it was actually relevant to a future (this) episode. Ya know, writers, if you keep these scenes in, it'll look a lot less like you're pulling this shit out of your asses at the last minute.

[mercfan3]

See, I'm a little upset about Rumple. He always came across as someone who was a good man but just got overtaken with power and magic. He always seemed much more redeemable than Regina. (Granted, if we continue this dark magic = drug analogy, I suppose he's having a relapse?)

[Emma]

If Hook has sex with Emma while being controlled by Rumple, does that mean Rumple has sex with Emma?

I just grossed myself out.

 

Why would you do this to me? Go sit in the corner now.

[foreverevolving]

I'm calling it now: The author is really a fanfic writer, and this entire show will be reveled to be nothing but a fanfic story.

or maybe it's the cat from {and/or} Dr. Seuss? I mean it was sort of odd that out of any book Robin could have pulled they did "the Cat in the Hat".

 

it's funny these two hours literally flew by me, so i guess i had fun.

I was a be "haaa" about the opening scene, but! i love me some outlaw queen, real life is not shades of black and white. sometimes you fall inlove with someone else while still being married. To play devil's advocate, Robin spend the last 28+years thinking his wife was dead. so he had alot of time to reach the point of being able to move on, and then literally over night the rug was pulled out from under him and now he has to deal with his no longer dead wife and his feelings for Regina. Poor dude is in a "damn if you do, damn if you don't" situation.

 

DQ is awesome.

so is the entire Frozen cast.

Dear apprentice: you don't think it would have been a smart idea to warn DQ that she is crossing to a realm that has no magic in it? you know just in case she tried to freeze something and won't be able to do so.

 

 

Playing Devil advocate again: While the man is going about it all wrong, I get Gold's motives for this story-line. the dude has been the dark one for centuries, I think losing Neal to death (which unless you're on Arrow you don't come back from) has finally made him see how the curse is affecting his life and him. he wants to rid of it- as we all would. he's just going about the wrong way.

[ParadoxLost]

At this point, the Sorcerer and the author of the book have to be the same guy.  The whole Regina / Robin book storyline was completely out of place and tonally wrong for this episode.  The only thing that explains its inclusion is the need to parallel the Sorcerer knowing about Emma before she was born and the book / alternate pages that give hope and the 'sometimes people surprise you' line.

[Serena]

They did the Big Swan Queen episode, they've gotta do the Big Golden Swan episode sooner or later. I'm just preparing y'all.

[Rumsy4]

It was a good episode with some trashy parts (Robin). My heart... so much Hook angst! I hate that Rumple has his heart now. And that Milah name drop was cruel. Emma was too gullible about Rumple. Rumple is officially the mega villain of the series now. Bring it on! I really want DQ to defeat Rumple, even though I know it won't happen. 

 

Someone on tumblr pointed out that the Rainbow was Emma loving herself. I loved it. And I love the fact that Elsa was the one to help her out. I hope we had had more of Elsa in the last two episodes. Anna really got on my nerves today. I don't know why.

 

No Snow, you weren't a "monster" when you were a kid. And you were cursed when you had that "affair" with David. Ugh... forget it...

[KingOfHearts]

So if the book doesn't decide people's fate, and it's not just a record, then what is it exactly? It's got to be something special if it can show alternate timelines.

I really want DQ to defeat Rumple, even though I know it won't happen.

 

Ditto! I can tell DQ legitimately cares about Emma, even if she's still a psycho. I want her to defeat Rumple for her sake.

Edited November 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[satrunrose]

I'm actually really enjoying this ongoing (and possibly accidental) theme that the truth is sometimes more destructive than anything else. Rumple's monologue about why he would never submit to a power removal spell willingly was about as sincere as that gold-leafed imp gets and it almost got poor Emma hatted. The "evil" mirror didn't tell Bell anything she didn't know. Anna does have a good reason to be miffed with her sister from the events of Frozen etc. 

 

Aw poor Killian! Thank you to Collin, Robert and Elizabeth Mitchell for the impressive acting and chemistry tonight. The message scene was great and I was biting my nails and whispering nonononono at the tv in the lead up to the heart removal, although really, when you think about it, losing your heart is only a big deal if your name is Graham, Henry Sr or Milah. Everyone else seems to make do quite nicely when they get stolen. 

 

I ignored the book parts and Regina, but I will give a small measure of credit in that when the season started I was sure we would see the return of the evil queen and Regina has, mostly, dealt with this like a sane person on the road to (ugh) redemption (still loved the Charming snark, though). Robyn Hood is just icky and I have no time for him and his bile-inducing plots, hot though he may be. 

[statsgirl]

Loved Emma/Elsa scenes.  But poor Emma, she can only have one good relationship per season. For the first two it was Snow, then last season it was Hook, and now since she has Elsa, Hook is keeping things from her.

How did Ingrid got out of the urn after her sister locked her for killing her other sister? Did I miss it?

Didn't Elsa and Hans find the  urn while Anna was missing and release Ingrid?

 

I thought this too. Careless on the part of the show, or meaningful in the sense of how much he lurves Emma?

I think Hook's heart was red because he's not as black as he's painted. For a pirate, he's been pretty noble and unselfish.

[HoodlumSheep]

If Hook has sex with Emma while being controlled by Rumple, does that mean Rumple has sex with Emma?

I just grossed myself out.

That's what I was wondering about. Like, did he make Killian makeout with Emma, or was it at least partially Killy's doing? Is this how Rumple views the CS relationship? Does he think that they just snog each other 24/7???

I mentioned imagining Rumple as Dark Helmet, playing with his dolls (CS), smashing their faces together, in the Killybear thread. That's all I can think of at the moment.

[ParadoxLost]

See, I'm a little upset about Rumple. He always came across as someone who was a good man but just got overtaken with power and magic. He always seemed much more redeemable than Regina. (Granted, if we continue this dark magic = drug analogy, I suppose he's having a relapse?)

 

I've never seen Rumpel that way,  The only reason he sometimes seems more redeemable than Regina is that he makes deals that shift some of the culpability for his villainous ways on others and sometimes the victims themselves.

 

The way he is going about getting Emma's power is a little off to me.  Only in that it feels like he wants Belle to find out and be disabused of the idea that he can change.  If it had worked and Emma disappeared, Rumpel was putting too much faith in Charming/Regina/Henry not figuring out who would help her get rid of her magic or that they'd just accept a whoops/bygones.  If he takes everyone's heart to avoid being found out too soon, like Hook's, eventually Belle is going to notice.

[Rumsy4]

Robyn Hood is just icky and I have no time for him and his bile-inducing plots, hot though he may be.

 

I don't even find him hot. He just seems like disgusting sleaze to me wearing that undershirt. Ewww... He is so bent on helping Regina find a Happy Ending, but hasn't lifted a finger to help Marian. His son's mother. Even if he doesn't love her, this seemed callous to the core. 

 

If it had worked and Emma disappeared, Rumpel was putting too much faith in Charming/Regina/Henry not figuring out who would help her get rid of her magic or that they'd just accept a whoops/bygones.

 

If it had worked, he would have killed Hook and activated the Hat. Why would have any care after that?

Edited November 17, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Dani-Ellie]

So if the book doesn't decide people's fate, and it's not just a record, then what is it exactly? It's got to be something special if it can show alternate timelines.

 

Maybe there's an alternate universe out there made up of the paths the characters didn't take? Two roads diverged in an enchanted wood ... and in our universe, Regina ran away from Robin. In the alternate universe, she stepped into the tavern. It would be the same spot in the "book," hence the same page. The page Robin somehow ended up with belongs in the Bizarro Universe's Once Upon a Time book.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Chicken Wing]

I don't know about you all, but I'm tired of being forced to gape at Elizabeth Mitchell's cleavage.

 

I'm not sure what Past Ingrid's game plan was at the end there. So she thought to get rid of Anna by using her to goad Elsa into using her powers on her? She really thought Elsa would hurt her sister on purpose? She didn't even hurt her sister on purpose. For a Snow Queen, her evil plans are pretty weak. I can't wait to see the resolution to her brainwashing all of Storybrooke into beating each other up so she can have her niece and a stranger all to herself to be her fake replacement sisters.

 

Crypt sex. Ew. It's nice that they can forget all about the fact that Marion is still frozen now that they've acknowledged their feelings for each other, but, you know, Marion's still frozen. You can still work on that even if you don't want to be with her anymore. Tool. Also, I'm not sure I enjoy Mary Margaret and Regina girl-talking about the latter's sex life.

 

So no one's going to give Elsa new clothes to wear? She just looks like a Disney theme park actress wandering around now.

 

I get that Emma is desperate and confused and, as a result, at risk for not thinking clearly, but is she stupid? What part of any syllable out of Gold's mouth sounded like a good idea? Her superpower is bullshit. Then again, Rumpel was telling the truth: she would never hurt anyone again when it was done. 'Cause she'd be in a hat.

[stealinghome]

How did Ingrid got out of the urn after her sister locked her for killing her other sister? Did I miss it?

Didn't Elsa and Hans find the  urn while Anna was missing and release Ingrid?

Yes--when Anna went to the Enchanted Forest, Kristoff and Elsa went off looking for the urn (because Hans was invading). They found the urn and then released the Snow Queen.

 

The only question at this point is what Snow Queen was doing until she showed up in Storybrooke in 4x01/2 and what happened with her and Young Emma.

Edited November 17, 2014 by stealinghome

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe there's an alternate universe out there made up of the paths the characters didn't take? Two roads diverged in a wood ... and in our universe, Regina ran away from Robin. In the alternate universe, she stepped into the tavern. It would be the same spot in the "book," hence the same page. The page Robin somehow ended up with belongs in the Bizarro Universe's Once Upon a Time book.

Could we go to this Bizarro universe in 4B? I would love that. The possibilities would be endless. I've wanted to see alternate timelines and universes ever since the time portal happened.

Edited November 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[BoPeeps]

Sniff sniff. What's that obscenely pungent smell coming from under the door of the crypt? The aroma of Robin's putrid character. Such sleazy, foul pride storytelling they show at the most singularly distasteful times. Gag. He doesn't smell of forest, but more of what bears leave in the forest!!

 

Long in the tooth at times and yet packed full of intriguing story possibilities. I am still sometimes surprised and entertained, while rolling the eyes just a taddddd.

 

The awaited for and much expected Hook angst arrives. But the cell phone voice mail is a safety net, if, no, when Emma hears it. I guess Rumple can store it away with that bogus tape he had from the cleverly proactive security camera in a house he didn't know was there before being swept there by the Fantasia broom.

The Crocodile/Pirate scenes are always very good. Great nemesis's moments. This particular plot direction has GOT to be making Carlyle smile.   I will always love it when they give Colin a chance to show his emoting chops. Rumple's upcoming coming up trouble should be epic. But with Ms. Mills playing hop scotch on the board of *am I evil or am I not*...my reluctant guess is that Regina will somehow have a *hand* in restoring said true-love-embracing beating organ back into the leather clad chest in season part 2. (unless they clean it up before the finale.)

 

All quirks and gaps and overlaps (oh, my!) aside. It's moving along to an entertaining cliff hanger.

 

I will miss Elsa. Another hit to Emma when her arc is over. Snow Queen is still lunatic insanely creepy good. The soft mentally deranged delivery still gives certain goosebumps.

 

But really, WHY would Emma put trust in Rumple for a second of any day?  His speech to her was supposed to be heartfelt  revelation, but I found it  perfect Rumple treacherous manipulation but still kind of odd. Time filler so that Elsa and Hook could travel at lightning speed to reach where Emma drove by car?

And after easily accepting his BS about the cure, it took her damn long enough to take the steps towards those doors. (grin) Tension, thy name is drawn-out climax.

 

David and Snow quietly suggesting that Emma should embrace normalcy??? Another oddity. Snow's deeply marred and Karma-twisting chance at grace and hope but*adultery is OK because when true love is involved, character can go out the window and we can forgive ourselves, because our men are kind of hot. Humanity is not black and white...just Shades of Gray, cough cough, and oh yeah, we have faults* is amusing as well as enabling the sexual proclivity of our strong, independent females :) Ain't lust grand. Still an interesting shared moment. Trying to erase some of the skeezy shame that Regina rightly says she has.

 

Will?... What? Who? Why? More weird, though there is obviously a lot more to him that meets the eye. I couldn't help notice though, that when Regina (who got to the library as fast as she could...whatever happened to purple poofs???) entered the library to meet her still aromatically pungent adulterous lover, the fancy little lights on the elevator down to the lower lower levels was brightly lit. Foreshadowing a visit to the resting place of a probably really pissed off Maleficent?

 

David, I laughed at your throwaway line *all the innocent lives you destroyed?"

Regina..."hello who is this?" to Robin calling her. He isn't on caller ID????

For all the time Belle spends in the library, she has The Cat in the Hat with books about Mercedes Benz manuals??? AND it is open until ten o'clock, UNATTENDED???

 

I am being way too picayune.

 

Repetitive themes, but really can the creators truly be totally original?  Confusing crisscrosses, but that is also expected! :) I love more parts than I don't :)

 

Ah, Once, what a very weird show is created for us when you blend twisted, deviant morality and Disney ownership. Heh.

[Mari]

I've never seen Rumpel that way,  The only reason he sometimes seems more redeemable than Regina is that he makes deals that shift some of the culpability for his villainous ways on others and sometimes the victims themselves.

I think part of it is the performance.  Carlyle often plays Rumple as someone who hates himself, and there've been moments where there are definite layers to the performance;  Rumple doesn't think he's doing the right thing, and regrets it a little, but what he's doing is business and he's going to finish.

 

Parilla doesn't usually seem to layer Regina's emotions the same way--Regina usually seems to go full-crazy-eyes evil, and is gleeful about it.  Adding in the dialogue that shows up fairly regularly that shows Regina's complete lack of self-awareness about how her actions would impact other people and her own future?

 

Rumple's just a more complex character.   Those usually do seem more redeemable.  Regina's usually a set of 4-6 completely different simple characters they switch out as needed.

 

(Not saying Rumple's more heroic or a better person, just more complicated.)

[stealinghome]

Could we go to this Bizarro universe in 4B? I would love that. The possibilities would be endless.

Dark Snowing in Bizarro World! Dark Snowing in Bizarro World!

Edited November 17, 2014 by stealinghome

[Actionmage]

Could we go to this Bizarro universe in 4B? I would love that. The possibilities would be endless.

 

You say that now, but I don't trust these writers enough to write a smart, entertaining Bizarro-take on this show.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Dark Snowing in Bizarro World! Dark Snowing in Bizarro World!

Maybe "bratty" Snow hooked up with Prince James instead. Hehe.

 

 

You say that now, but I don't trust these writers enough to write a smart, entertaining Bizarro-take on this show.

I don't trust the writers to write anything, actually. When you got lemons, make lemonade.

Edited November 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[MedievalGirl]

I loved so much about this episode especially that so many conversations went longer. 
 

Folks have complained her about Will Scarlet Wonderland experience not meaning anything but in the library when he's talking to Robin about Regina he had a line about being in love with the whole evil queen thing and ended with "that, I get." DH and i had to stop the DVR to finish laughting. It was all in the delivery. Yes, he'd know a thing or two about evil queens. 

[Mari]

Maybe "bratty" Snow hooked up with Prince James instead. Hehe.

 

I don't trust the writers to write anything, actually. When you got lemons, make lemonade.

Would Emma still have happened? 

[FilmTVGeek80]

I missed the last fifteen or so minutes of the first hour because of something wonky with my cable, so there was important stuff I missed like Snow and Charming talking about Emma giving up her powers, but from what I did see of the episode, I was mostly just kind of bored with it. There were elements to the episode that I liked, but it felt like it was just a padded episode that didn't really need to be two hours and didn't really use the time wisely.

 

I actually kind of like that Snow and Charming were willing to respect Emma's choice to give up her magic. I didn't want Emma to give it up and definitely not when she was making the decision mostly out of fear. But if there ever came a time that she truly didn't want them, I would hope that her parents and everyone else would respect her choices. I also liked that it basically contradicted those that claim Snow and Charming only love him for her powers and because she's the Savior. If all they cared about was Emma's magic their initial reaction would have been much different.

 

That being said I'm glad, not that it was stupid Regina that showed them the light, that they decided to go after her and that Elsa, who understand this situation better than anyone, was able to talk Emma down. I am loving the relationship between those two. If anything I was just so thankful it wasn't Emma's new bestie Regina that saved the day.

 

The crypt sex was gross for all the reasons others have mentioned. Robin though is more and pore proving himself worthy of someone like Regina. It's not just that they had sex in a crypt near his frozen wife's heart, but that Robin looked like he didn't have a care in the world. No sign at all of any kind of guilty conscience. Nope just let's just stay a little longer and prolong this unholy booty call. And some great parent Robin is. He was freakin there all night with no mention of his son. Then the asshole actually wants to bring his mistress over to where he lives the next morning, which is where I assume Roland must have been.

 

I know David would never hit a woman, but I wanted him, or actually preferably I would have liked the honors of reaching through the screen and throttling Regina when she showed up at the house, and after Charming mentioned that they had been calling her all night,  she had the nerve to get huffy over it and practically rip his head off and demand a thank you for the locator potion. Fuck you, lady. Sorry, everyone was trying to contact you over important developments concerning your son while you were off fucking one of your countless victim's husbands.

 

Though David kind of did get back at her with that epic burn about her countless string of victims. The thing I loved the most about that moment was there was no shot of David looking regretful about it afterward or apologizing. Thank God he does not have his head up Regina's ass and has not forgotten what she's done, unlike his wife and daughter. Of course Regina's only reaction to his comment is a bitchy side eye because how dare anyone remind her of her disgusting evil deeds.

 

I think I was madder about Snow's blase attitude over Robin and Regina's night than about anything she did last week. I know they tried to counter that by having Snow mention that she's slept with a married man, too but it didn't work since I'm pretty sure Snow felt guilty for that and that married man she was sleeping with was actually her own damn husband, and the only reason she didn't know that was because of the woman she was giving a pep talk, too. Of course Regina should feel ashamed about it.

 

As much as I hated Snow giving Regina said pep talk, I didn't mind that she was doing it while they were tracking Emma. It's not like they stopped to gab over coffee. everyone was just walking and looking for Emma. You could see that while talking to Regina Snow was still trying to track Emma's movement. There is such a thing as multi-tasking. And I'm not going to blame Snow because she talks more with Regina about her love life than Emma's. That's on the writer for writing more Snow/Regina scenes than Snow/Emma ones. 

 

The turnaround to Rumple being a stone cold villain is kind of fast, but I do prefer this than them dithering around and doing as horrible a job of redeeming him as they've done with Regina. Plus, it's not like this is out of character since this is a guy that tried to kill his own grandson.

 

Snow Queen is definitely twisted, but Elizabeth Mitchell is excellent in this role and I can really see rooting for her to be redeemed.

 

I have no problem with Will Scarlett. He's kind of fun. But he seems kind of like a carbon copy of Hook and given this show can barely use the characters they have, it seems pointless to have brought him over.

[SilverShadow]

I really enjoyed this double-episode, and IMO what made it were all the character touches they were able to fit in given the extra time.

 

All this discussion about "the truth" has reminded me of major themes of a (very very dark and adult) franchise called Umineko no naku koro ni (When The Seagulls Cry). Without spoiling the major events of that series, the idea of multiple kinds of truth, and their effect was explored significantly. Specifically whether the truth was reached with our without "love." A couple of examples:

 

Emma's birth "without love": Emma's parents gave her up on the very day she was born.

Emma's birth "with love": Emma's parents gave her up on the very day that she was born-because they had to, to save her life, and give her her best chance.

 

The mirror will show everyone a truth without love, like we saw with Anna. Elsa was absolutely wrong for leaving her alone all that time, but she did it because she was terrified of hurting or killing her sister.  The mirror wiped out Anna's understanding of the second part.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Would Emma still have happened?

Replying in Wishing.

[Blue Plastic]

See, I'm a little upset about Rumple. He always came across as someone who was a good man but just got overtaken with power and magic. He always seemed much more redeemable than Regina. (Granted, if we continue this dark magic = drug analogy, I suppose he's having a relapse?)

I am too.  I liked it better when he was conflicted.  Sometimes he did good, then sometimes his lust for power got the best of him and he'd do something bad.  He wasn't an admirable character and not trustworthy but I liked that he did seem to have the small glimmer of good that Belle saw inside him.  Now the writers have just thrown it out the door and he's an out-and-out baddie with not even the tiny percentage of decency he used to have (which was, admittedly, extremely small).  I guess they're saying he gave up completely now that Bae is dead and therefore he has no motivation to try to be better.  I guess he just really doesn't give a crap about Belle, seriously, since she's not enough to motivate him to be nicer.

 

I did like the references to season 1 this episode, like Regina's gaslighting of Henry.

 

I would be a little more forgiving of Robin if he showed any interest at all in trying to help Marian.  Even if he doesn't want to be married to her anymore, it's pretty cold (hardy har) that he doesn't even care about helping her out of her current state.  If he can't fall in love with her again and give her true love's kiss, then another viable way to help would be to help the gang stop the Dairy Queen, which might undo her curse on Marian.  As it is, he seems perfectly happy to have Marian in permafrost forever.

[Dani-Ellie]

Could we go to this Bizarro universe in 4B? I would love that. The possibilities would be endless. I've wanted to see alternate timelines and universes ever since the time portal happened.

 

Replying in the spec without spoilers thread.

[El Seed]

See, I'm a little upset about Rumple. He always came across as someone who was a good man but just got overtaken with power and magic. He always seemed much more redeemable than Regina. (Granted, if we continue this dark magic = drug analogy, I suppose he's having a relapse?)

 

 

Eh, I can't say I've ever found Rumpel to be more redeemable than Regina. He was simply more tolerable because he recognized that he did awful things, while Regina did shit like whine about why did people fear her after ordering the massacre of an entire village.

 

I mentioned imagining Rumple as Dark Helmet, playing with his dolls (CS), smashing their faces together, in the Killybear thread. That's all I can think of at the moment.                            

 

 

Lol, I cannot unsee that now, not that I want to since it's one of my favorite moments from Spaceballs. I'm still convinced the Show itself cribbed its motto from Dark Helmet: Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

 

Maybe there's an alternate universe out there made up of the paths the characters didn't take? In our universe, Regina ran away from Robin. In the alternate universe, she stepped into the tavern. It would be the same spot in the "book," hence the same page. The page Robin somehow ended up with belongs in the Bizarro Universe's Once Upon a Time book.

 

 

Maybe there's a Bizarro Universe where characters react appropriately and logically to each other, where Snow and Charming take a more active interest in their daughter, where Regina isn't treated as the biggest victim ever, and where character traits and plot threads aren't dropped or retconned to fit whatever crap the writers are fixated on at the moment.

 

And now I've depressed myself that there might be a superior version of this show in a Bizarro Universe.

[stealinghome]

So Wikipedia informs me that David H. Goodman & Jerome Schwartz were the writers tonight. I think Schwartz is new. I think I want him back more. I'm choosing to believe that as he's new to the writers' room, he hasn't (yet) been given the Regina Brainwash and was the source of the epic burns on her tonight.

 

This episode could have been intolerable in other hands, but I thought the writers actually did pretty well with the task they were given.

Edited November 17, 2014 by stealinghome

[ParadoxLost]

I would be a little more forgiving of Robin if he showed any interest at all in trying to help Marian.  Even if he doesn't want to be married to her anymore, it's pretty cold (hardy har) that he doesn't even care about helping her out of her current state.  If he can't fall in love with her again and give her true love's kiss, then another viable way to help would be to help the gang stop the Dairy Queen, which might undo her curse on Marian.  As it is, he seems perfectly happy to have Marian in permafrost forever.

 

Its even worse that Regina seems to care more about defrosting Marian than Robin does.  Robin is the aggressor here and its weird.  I'm hoping they find the author and its revealed that they can't have a HEA because of Robin, not Regina.

Edited November 17, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[MadyGirl1987]

Really enjoyed this episode. Very suspenseful. I was getting very nervous watching the lead-up to whether Emma would fall for Rumples deception.When Ingrid was trying to get Emma to not go, I actually shouted at the TV for her to listen to her. I was also all sorts of nervous in the Hook and Rumple scenes. I loved Hook getting all worked up in the Gold's store, and was just waiting for Rumple to come out after hearing Hook's confession and mess him up. It is because of Hook I am hoping for Ingrid to mess Rumple up before her defeat.

[Chicken Wing]

I would be a little more forgiving of Robin if he showed any interest at all in trying to help Marian.  Even if he doesn't want to be married to her anymore, it's pretty cold (hardy har) that he doesn't even care about helping her out of her current state.  If he can't fall in love with her again and give her true love's kiss, then another viable way to help would be to help the gang stop the Dairy Queen, which might undo her curse on Marian.  As it is, he seems perfectly happy to have Marian in permafrost forever.

 

I know, right? I mean, Regina made it perfectly clear before - she can't find any magic spell to unfreeze Marion, so the only way to break the curse is the normal way, true love's kiss, so Robin needs to love her again and forget about Regina. So in choosing Regina, is he choosing NOT to unfreeze Marion? Is he picking being with Regina over saving his wife's life?

[snarkastic]

Well, we've now caught up on Elsa's backstory to present day and I still don't see why she's missing her memories. (Unless the show answered this and I missed it. I don't pay close attention on first viewings.)

[ParadoxLost]

Well, we've now caught up on Elsa's backstory to present day and I still don't see why she's missing her memories. (Unless the show answered this and I missed it. I don't pay close attention on first viewings.)

 

Exchange with Rumpel at the end, revealed SQ removed Elsa's memories while in the urn because she learned to much and she wants a fresh start when Elsa is released.

[Artsda]

 

Is he picking being with Regina over saving his wife's life?

 

As odd as it is, could he be used to his wife being dead? Robin's lived all those years as a widow and as bad as it sounds he's accustomed to her being dead. The only reason she was alive because Emma played with history. People change, move on, fall in love with new people. Robin's life was going in a certain why and it got turned upside down with a wife brought back from the dead. 

[shapeshifter]

...I think Hook's heart was red because he's not as black as he's painted. For a pirate, he's been pretty noble and unselfish.

If the redness wasn't just a style choice by the prop people, I'm assuming his love for Emma has cleansed his heart.

Maybe there's an alternate universe out there made up of the paths the characters didn't take? Two roads diverged in an enchanted wood ... and in our universe, Regina ran away from Robin. In the alternate universe, she stepped into the tavern. It would be the same spot in the "book," hence the same page. The page Robin somehow ended up with belongs in the Bizarro Universe's Once Upon a Time book.

Yes. I was bothered that the alternate page 23 was really pages 22 and 23 with no backs to them (pages 21 and 24).

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Ew ew ew ew, icky gross mausoleum sex? Ugh. Regina and Robin sneaking around is bad enough, but a mausoleum?  That's incredibly skeevy no matter what couple it is, but them?  Ew squared, cubed, to the infinite power.

 

Never saw "General Hospital", I take it.  :)

 

How can they have Gold go all Evuhl and not have Belle seeing any of it?

 

Is there a reason for Charming's mustache?

 

 

The episode had a lot of great one liners, Hook about the cell phone, Elsa about the car, everything with Robin and Will together, Regina's crack about Snow having Wicked be the baby's nanny.

 

Kristoff's comment about how he grew up in a barn, but at least it was a clean barn.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Rick Kitchen

[FabulousTater]

I give. I can't even deal with Snow and Charming in regards to Emma anymore. Congrats, Show, you've made me not care about them anymore. There's pretty much nothing more I want than for Emma to move out of that damn loft (preferably to another country) and relocate with a re-hearted Hook and they can live out the rest of their days, happily (in True Love glory!) together. Elsa (and Anna and Kristoff) are very welcomed as well, but everyone else can just fuck off.

 

When Emma decides to get rid of her magic and Charming and Snow (even though they don't know how she's going to do this) are all like "We're just gonna let this all play out as is. I mean, this way Emma can't hurt anyone anymore and she'll be normal. Win-Win!" WTF. W-in-actual-F.

 

And as predicted it was all fixed with one sentence between Emma and Snowing and......wait for it....a hug. Oh, FFS. This show. This effing show....UGH!

 

On the bright side I love Emma and Elsa's friendship more and more and I want to keep this duo forever and ever. I love how Emma had to understand that to control her magic and to truly accept love, she had to accept herself, every aspect of herself, and hot damn she did! Yay, Emma! I love that Elsa helped Emma realize this and that Elsa didn't back down (and also that when Elsa overheard Snowing's bullshit she was like "Oh, Hell NO. Screw this bullshit. I'm saving my magical bff from herself and showing her what it's all about. These wankers can sit on their asses doing nothing without me!"

 

Other notes: I feel so bad for Hook. Poor guy was really trying. But I'm crossing my fingers for a badass Emma Swan moment -- saving her dashing rapscallion from Rumple (and himself) before the end of 4A ('cause, OMG, I will not be joining the OQ show that will be 4B!)

 

Rumple, you ruthless, evil but you own it, bastard. I've missed you. I'm glad he (the show) has stopped pretending he was anything other than a power hungry, manipulative but magnificent villain.

Edited November 17, 2014 by FabulousTater

[thuganomics85]

For two hours, it wasn't boring, which is a good thing.  But, I'm with those who thought that it had a lot of Once at it's best, but also at it's worst.

 

As usual, my favorite parts were once again almost anything involving the Snow Queen/Ingrid and the Frozen cast.  I'm glad that Anna didn't betray Elsa, but it was a curse Ingrid put on her, that caused Anna to trap Elsa in the urn.  In turn, I loved that Elsa never bought what Ingrid was selling for a second, and never doubted Anna.  Of course, Ingrid still outmaneuvered them, but I like that these two really do seem to have complete faith with one another.  It looks like though that both Anna and Kristoff became frozen meat Popsicles, thanks to Ingrid, but since Elsa hear her heart beating with Bo Peep's cane, hopefully both are still alive; they just need to get thawed out.  Also, I see that Hans was also still frozen and in Ingrid's cupboard, so I wonder if he'll be coming back into this.

 

Also surprisingly enjoyed the stuff with Elsa and Emma.  I liked that Elsa was the one that solved the problems, and could relate best to what Emma was going through.  And, that Emma believed her.  Granted, with this show, they could have probably developed it better, but I thought Georgia Haig and Jennifer Morrison both sold it enough, that I could buy their relationship and trust.

 

Continue to love the Ingrid vs. Rumple scenes.  Ingrid really has become one of my favorite seasonal bad guys.  Elizabeth Mitchell has just been splendid in this role, and really lights up her scenes.

 

You see, it's stuff like Rumple's speech that makes me have no issues admitting that I don't dislike him as much as Regina.  Because Rumple knows the score.  He knows he is a selfish bastard, that cares only about himself, and will harm anyone to do so.  And, you know what?  He points the finger right as himself.  On this show, I can handle that.  He's an asshole, but he owns it.  I'll take that every day of the week, over Regina whining that the world is out to get her.  Even if it was underdeveloped as always, I'm glad the show seems to be ramping him back up as a big bad.  Love that Rumple vs. Hook is coming back with a vengeance.  There is so much history with these two, and I want to see more of it.

 

What I don't want to see?  More Regina and Robin.  Good grief; they actually had sex in the crypt.  Classy guys, right there.  Robin is just a major jerk.  He really doesn't seem to give a shit that Marian is still a ice cube; he'd rather help Regina in her silly quest.  Oh, and it looks like Will's been dragged into this.  What a waste.  Let him hang out with the cool characters, show.  Not Robin.

 

Of course, Regina whines, and Snow not only sympathizes, but again, does the whole "your not all bad, just like I'm not all good!" comparison.  Because they are so alike.  Because killing Cora when she was one step away from pulverizing Storybrooke is totally equal to every death and carnage Regina caused.  Grow a backbone, Snow.  At least Charming briefly brought it up, but only in a snarky way.

 

Seriously, why do people trust Rumple?  To be a cliche, he is someone who could tell me the sky is blue, and I would still be giving him the side-eye.  First, Hook got snowed, and now Emma just bought his "Oh, I have a way to take your powers away.  Nothing bad will happen, dearie!  Not one thing!" at face value.  Everyone needs to quit that, no matter what.  Even if he starts rescuing kittens from trees or feeds hungry children; assume there is something sinister going on.

 

I did think the acting was extra good tonight.  Beside Jennifer, Georgia, and Elizabeth that I mentioned earlier, I thought Robert, Colin, Elizabeth Lail, and even Lana did great with the material.  Hell, I even though Sean Maguire sold the humorous moments at the library, and his banter with Michael Socha.  Really, I think he could be fine as Robin, but the writers are just destroying the character.

Edited November 17, 2014 by thuganomics85

[scarynikki12]

I mean it was sort of odd that out of any book Robin could have pulled they did "the Cat in the Hat".

 

I think this is proof that Belle, despite her love for books, is a really bad librarian.  Leaving the place open and unattended and having Seuss next to auto mechanics?  No self respecting librarian would allow such things.  I'm amazed the place hasn't burned down.

 

One thing that came from Robin's scenes with Will is that the perspective of those who were in Storeybrooke during the first Curse apparently think that everything stems from the Clock Tower.  They apparently don't realize it stems from Emma and the clock was merely the first sign that the Curse was weakening.  They obviously know she broke the Curse and is the Savior, but I wonder if they think that the magic of the Clock Tower (or whatever) brought her?  I'd really like more perspective from the other people in town.  Even the Charmings don't know that the Curse started weakening only when Emma showed up do they?  I think Emma, Regina and Henry are the only ones who realize this.

[shapeshifter]

...I feel so bad for Hook. Poor guy was really trying. But I'm crossing my fingers for a badass Emma Swan moment -- saving her dashing rapscallion from Rumple (and himself) before the end of 4A ('cause, OMG, I will not be joining the OQ show that will be 4B!)...

Ooohh. That's what y'all meant by "4B" with regard to wanting to see alt/many universes in 4B. I thought it was a Fringe reference.

ETA, I thought it was "6B" in Fringe, not "4B," and it was. Makes sense now.

Okay. Going to sleep now in case I really do have to teach freshman college students tomorrow how to find information about alternate universes. Seriously. Schrodinger's Cat likely will come up.

Edited November 17, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Shanna Marie]

And the moral of tonight's episode is: Check your damn voice mail.

 

So, they really want us to believe that Snow would be all "you go, girl!" about Regina having sex with a married man whose wife is under a curse. Not to mention that Marian was in Regina's dungeon for protecting Snow (I wonder if Emma ever told that part of the story -- I swear, the non-conversations on this show are epic. You never know who knows what about what).

 

I'm not sure I get why the alternate page of the book gave such hope. It seemed to me to be proof that the book just records what happened. Either was a possibility, but the one that made it into the book was the one that happened. I didn't see it as a license for them to run off together, and the hell with Marian. It was like things and people kept telling Regina that the book records what happens and you make your own fate, and she's still somehow seeing it as the author having power over her.

 

Rumple is vile, absolutely vile but he is true to who he is and the way he spoke to Emma, those were really all kinds of awesome scenes.  Great acting, great delivery, but Rumple still just sucks.

The brilliant thing was, everything he said was true. He was using truth as a weapon, and also using his own reputation and Ingrid's behavior to validate it. If they said they wouldn't do it, then that must mean it's the right thing to do. But I don't see how they can at all continue his relationship with Belle after all this. In each of these scenes -- when he was with Emma and then later what he did to Hook -- I shouted at the TV, "But he has such a good heart!"

 

Like, did he make Killian makeout with Emma, or was it at least partially Killy's doing?

I think the stuff with Emma was pure Killian. Rumple likely just sent him in to get the hat, with orders not to tell Emma what was going on. He wouldn't have cared what else Hook did. She noticed how intently he was looking at her and how fiercely he kissed her. He was saying goodbye, and he looked at her so intently because he knew it was the last time he would see her. With any luck, she'll hear the voice mail and figure out that Rumple is up to something.

 

Fireworks like on the old Saturday night Walt Disney show! (Ask your grandparents about it.)

I thought it was Sunday night, after Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom (at least, in the early 70s). My dad would make us peanut butter and honey sandwiches, and we'd watch that lineup while my mom had some rare quiet time with a book. I have very fond memories of those Sunday nights. I think that's why I like this show. It fills that slot in my heart.