S21.E13: The Girl Who Gets Caught In A Lie

[belindasmiles]

If Chantelle was telling the truth, it makes no sense that the person she was angry at was Shei and not Keith.

 

My speculation is that she didn't mean for it to be malicious or anything, I don't even think she means it in a 'oh i really like Keith' kind of thing either. She probably thought it was a harmless lie in an awkward attempt to bond with the others  (sort of like her being sad about Raelia leaving and went to comfort people, that was probably her actually trying to bond with the house but it came off weird and awkward and uncomfortable because realistically she wasn't close with Raelia or the rest of the group) via gossipy girl chit chat. I can totally see that, and that would be why she told Shei not to tell anyone else, and was angry at Shei afterwards and not Keith.

 

That makes more sense to me than Chantelle being a victim of womanizer Keith's lies (and honestly, it wouldn't be a big deal had they hooked up anyway, it wasn't like Keith had a gf or wasn't hooking up in the house, where so many people hooked up a little anyway) and being so in love with him that she rather be mad at Shei instead afterwards.

 

But anyway, Chantelle might be a bit defensive snobby and unfriendly and young but she stood up to Yu Tsai scum so mad props to her.

 

I honestly don't understand why Adam is still in - his photos have been dismal and he will never have a neck. I don't remember one shot of his that I've liked all season. I get that Tyra wants a guy to win, but she already has Will and Keith there, there's no need for Adam. 

Edited November 16, 2014 by belindasmiles

[Surrealist]

Oh, man. I'm bummed out that the show tried to send the message that it's okay to call someone a name they don't like as long as you don't think it should offend them. :( I also felt sad about it, because Chantelle was clearly trying to tell herself that he was doing it out of love, but he made a big point of explaining that the reason he did it was because he didn't like her and was trying to put himself in a better mood around her, so that he could overcome not liking her. And therefore, she couldn't ask him to stop doing it, because it was really her fault somehow. What a shitty thing to say to someone.

 

Thank you for saying this! I know that some people will create nicknames for those they don't like, but the way Yu used it to rationalize his behavior was off putting.

[GreyBunny]

It was really gross.  If he wanted a cuddly nickname there are a zillion other creatures that are cuddly such as "duckling" or "bunny" or "puppy."

 

"Panda" for a girl with two-tone skin?  Why not "Zebra" or "Oreo" while he was at it?  It was obviously meant as a slur against her and when she called him out he tried to make it her fault that she was upset.  

[Talented Tenth]

Eh. Lenox stated on her Tumblr that Chantelle lied. Plus, Chantelle's response was rather a give away.

 

It's Keith's word against Chantelle's.  How would Lenox know?

 

Except check the name of this episode. The editors/producers know exactly who lied and they put it in the title of the episode. Whether we were shown the actual footage makes no difference.

 

It's Keith's word against Chantelle's.  How would editors/producers know?

[ParadoxLost]

Except check the name of this episode. The editors/producers know exactly who lied and they put it in the title of the episode. Whether we were shown the actual footage makes no difference

 

Except the title could be referring to the make-up lie at panel.

[Jrae9233]

The problem with Chantelle is that if you are going to carry the attitude that you aren't here to make friends and you are here for yourself is you can't get upset when other people don't like you. Taking that kind of attitude means people will talk shit about you and not care about your feelings since you told them you don't care about them.

You want to be an in control, unapologetic bitch? You have to accept the downside with it.

[After7Only]

I find it interesting that the two models of Korean descent didn't do as well as the more "exotic" ones who fit the clothes. To an extent, Shei's makeover screwed her over but I wonder if there were some other factors going on. I can't remember if Shei is considered biracial or not (I know her genetic test mentioned Irish and some other things), but Adam is, and I don't know how most Koreans feel about mixed-race Korean people.[/quote ]

I have a good friend of Korean and European heritage. According to her, she and her sister were made fun of in Korea for being mixed. So that could have been a factor in Shei's case.

Edited November 17, 2014 by After7Only

[EvilApplesauce]

This post isn't directed solely at you, belindasmiles, I'm just quoting part of what you said because I agree with this the most:

If Chantelle was telling the truth, it makes no sense that the person she was angry at was Shei and not Keith.

 

My speculation is that she didn't mean for it to be malicious or anything, I don't even think she means it in a 'oh i really like Keith' kind of thing either. She probably thought it was a harmless lie in an awkward attempt to bond with the others  (sort of like her being sad about Raelia leaving and went to comfort people, that was probably her actually trying to bond with the house but it came off weird and awkward and uncomfortable because realistically she wasn't close with Raelia or the rest of the group) via gossipy girl chit chat. I can totally see that, and that would be why she told Shei not to tell anyone else, and was angry at Shei afterwards and not Keith.

 

That makes more sense to me than Chantelle being a victim of womanizer Keith's lies (and honestly, it wouldn't be a big deal had they hooked up anyway, it wasn't like Keith had a gf or wasn't hooking up in the house, where so many people hooked up a little anyway) and being so in love with him that she rather be mad at Shei instead afterwards.

 

But anyway, Chantelle might be a bit defensive snobby and unfriendly and young but she stood up to Yu Tsai scum so mad props to her.

 

I honestly don't understand why Adam is still in - his photos have been dismal and he will never have a neck. I don't remember one shot of his that I've liked all season. I get that Tyra wants a guy to win, but she already has Will and Keith there, there's no need for Adam. 

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Chantelle to get mad at Shei if she wasn't lying. If you re-watch the confrontation scene, once Keith lets Chantelle know exactly what he's mad about, she doesn't react to him at all. It's like she goes into shock and mumbles to herself "That's hilarious" because her embarrassment is overwhelming. I think that if Keith and Chantelle really had hooked up and Keith was denying it to make Chantelle look bad, then Chantelle's reaction would have betrayed the truth - she might have looked at Keith in shock. And if Chantelle were truly angry at Shei for betraying her confidence, I would think Chantelle would have looked shocked by Shei or looked in Shei's direction even for a split second like "what? how could you?" Chantelle's immediate reaction was to withdraw into herself. I think she was so embarrassed by being called out on her lie that she had to remove herself from the group completely, talked about wanting to sleep in the hallway, and ended up crying by herself even when Keith said it wasn't that serious. Chantelle only blamed Shei in her talking head, which was probably filmed long after the actual confrontation had taken place and Chantelle had time to regroup and think of an excuse to cover her ass and deflect from the real question (i.e. did she lie or not).

 

I'm kind of fascinated with this storyline because I come from an abusive household and I used to make up grandiose lies about my life and family because I was really ashamed of the truth. I never felt like I fit in with anyone, I used to believe that everyone was just tolerating my presence and that people would stay far away from me if they knew what kind of loser I really was. I remember that I was once confronted by a group of friends similarly to how Keith and 'em surprised Chantelle, and when my friends went through a whole list of lies that I had told them, I just sat there in shock feeling like I was going to die. I retreated like Chantelle did, and went home. I just stopped speaking to those friends because I couldn't face them, even though I wrote them each a personal letter of apology. I felt so low that I wanted to drop out of school. I'm embarrassed even now to share this, and this happened more than 10 years ago. I think it's only when I started therapy (for family issues) and then started to build some self-esteem, that my lying habit kind of took care of itself. I realized that I only blurted out false stories when I was feeling deeply insecure about something, and maybe that's what Chantelle was going through on some level?

 

I believe that it's apparent from the beginning that Chantelle did have a little crush on Keith. Right from episode 3-ish, when the models first move into the house and they're partying all the time (Eddie Murphy ), the camera catches Chantelle hanging near Keith a lot. I'm just speculating here, but I think that she knew Keith was into Kari and maybe felt like Keith wouldn't like Chantelle for the same reason that she was bullied all her life. Maybe Keith picking her as a partner for the go-sees elevated Chantelle's hopes a bit, and she might have blurted out her story to Shei while still riding the high of Keith's attention. Remember that in the recap show, Keith and Shei were dancing together and Keith said Shei was hot. Chantelle must have known that Shei is the hot girl in the house, with 2 guys being attracted to her. Even though Chantelle fronts as being self-assured, I can see her targeting the "queen bee" of the house like she was looking for Shei's approval, to be on Shei's level re. the boys, or just wanting to communicate to Shei something like "he likes me better than you". But she told Shei not to tell anyone because Chantelle didn't want it getting back to Keith, and having her fears confirmed that maybe Keith was just playing nice with Chantelle and didn't mess with her like that. There was no reason for Chantelle to believe that she could tell Shei something "in confidence" when they weren't friends to begin with.

 

I can't believe I've typed out an essay on this show.

 

About Adam: all the reasons you've listed why he shouldn't win is exactly why I think Tyra will give him the crown, haha! She almost never picks the ideal winner for the season. I want to be wrong, but I really think Will is next out. Tyra knew from the get-go that Will was too tall to be a working model, but she cast him just so she can use his height against him when it's time to cut him loose. The stage has been set with designers complaining about Will's height this episode (though I suspect that it's always been a problem for the designers working with the show). I think Keith will be in the top 3, but I think Adam will win because: 1) he dominated the recap show, 2) he has that started-from-the-bottom-now-we-hurr story arc that Tyra favors, 3) we've seen his family, 4) he needs the show more than Keith would to break into modeling.

Edited November 17, 2014 by EvilApplesauce

[Bluerang1]

Really? You thought Romeo's edit showed him any sympathy? I find that fascinating, because I found basically nothing redeeming in anything they presented us with.

 

Well the first three weeks, whoever he had issues with was sent home. So it sort of showed that he was on the right side, and the people he had beef with were bad/weak so deserved to leave. 

[Kromm]

Eh. Lenox stated on her Tumblr that Chantelle lied. Plus, Chantelle's response was rather a give away.

Just to play Devil's advocate, Lenox could easily be lying or simply be taking Keith's word.

That said, I believe there's no mistaking Chantelle's response. She didn't actually have to admit she lied to telegraph completely that she indeed had. Is it 100% sure? Of course not. But to me it's like 95%. The words she used and the attitude she had make no sense in any human way if she was denying the accusation. Even with show editing added in.

It's Keith's word against Chantelle's.  How would Lenox know?

 

 

It's Keith's word against Chantelle's.  How would editors/producers know?

Lenox wouldn't.

Production almost definitely would. The only place in that house that has any privacy are the bathrooms, so unless they made out in one of those, then production would indeed know.

[Talented Tenth]

 

Lenox wouldn't.

Production almost definitely would. The only place in that house that has any privacy are the bathrooms, so unless they made out in one of those, then production would indeed know.

 

There have been several things discussed by various contestants that were never shown on camera, so I'm not sure it's true that the only place to have privacy was the bathroom.  With that being said, even if the bathroom was the only place, Chantelle and Keith very well could have done something in there.  At the end of the day, it's still Chantelle's word against Keith's.

[BathKol]

It was really gross. If he wanted a cuddly nickname there are a zillion other creatures that are cuddly such as "duckling" or "bunny" or "puppy."

"Panda" for a girl with two-tone skin? Why not "Zebra" or "Oreo" while he was at it? It was obviously meant as a slur against her and when she called him out he tried to make it her fault that she was upset.

Yeah! Thank you!!! Bunny is cute - it reminds me of Sailor Moon's nickname 'Usagi/Rabbit'. To me, Panda is the equivalent of monkey; Chantelle is also African-American, so giving funky ass nicknames to her is bordering on falling into the race flame. Yu Tsai might as well just start calling her watermelon thuggette or chicken snatcher for all I care.

OT but my cousin goes by the name 'Puppy'. I call her Vanilla Bean behind her back cause she just adores the scent of vanilla. Ugh.

Edited November 17, 2014 by BathKol

[Julia]

I don't know if it isn't giving him too much credit to say he was looking for a nickname that in some way represented her, but honestly if I had to pick a mammal I'd say gazelle.

[saber5055]

 

What was Tyra wearing?  It was slit up almost to waist high on the one side.  I don't recall every outfit she's worn this cycle but it seems to me that they are all football or basketball related in some way. Like the shirts and dresses are actually jerseys and t-shirts with player numbers on them or something. Is she dating someone in professional ball somewhere?

I have to say, I hadn't noticed the sports-themed outfits, I can't get past the hair to see the clothes. But you do make a good point ... given that Keith is an ex-football player. Is she wearing a prediction/reveal of the eventual winner?

 

As for what we are shown, and thinking something didn't happen because we didn't see it, if contests/shoots are held every day, that's 24 HOURS of film that has to be edited down to 45 MINUTES of air time. That's a lot on the cutting-room floor, so to speak. If contest/shoots are every two days, that's 48 hours that has to be whittled down to 45 minutes, making even more we don't see.

[OakGoblinFly]

Chantelle is very young, but I wish she would have spun it around on Shei and said in front of everyone that she let them believe something happened to see if she could trust them.  I didn't like how Keith humiliated her in front of everyone.  

 

Even if she did that, Chantelle would still look like an awful person - she either lied or she was setting people up.

 

I don't blame Shei for telling Keith about Chantelle's lies; from what Shei was saying, Chantelle told numerous people the lies about hooking up with Keith - it was a rather open secret.  I understand why Shei went to Keith, as his friend she wanted him to know what Chantelle was saying about him.  As far as Keith confronting Chantelle in front of a group, perhaps he wanted her to admit to the group that she lied - speaking to her one on one wouldn't accomplish that.

 

While I do believe that she has walls built due to childhood issues, that doesn't excuse her threatening "to beat a bitch down" or her persecution/victimization complex and her "need" to sleep in the hall.  

[Wootini]

I meant to post over the weekend, but never got around to it. I just don't know how to respond to this episode because of the editing.

 

The whole scene between Chantelle and Yu played out exactly as I expected it would: She was a little brusque in her request that he stop calling her a nickname that she found offensive, and he was obnoxiously stubborn in his response that he was basically sorry she was offended but he wasn't going to stop and would in fact come up with a worse nickname for her.

 

And then after commercials, it was like they did a Take Two and suddenly it's all peaches and cream and I'm sorry and it's all good. BWAH? O.o

 

As for the lie, I'm not surprised that they didn't have Chantelle on tape telling Shei that she hooked up with Keith. It's not Big Brother. The cameras aren't on all the time. But I have no trouble believing that Shei was telling the truth just based on Chantelle's reaction when Keith called her out for it. Yes, everyone was ganging up on her, and that's not cool, but Keith had every right to call her out. And the way she tried to laugh it off and then just completely shut down and scurried away? That screams guilty to me.

 

Oh right, there were go-sees and photo shoots, too!

 

The go-sees are always fun because you get a sense of how well they would work in the actual modeling industry. And clearly Adam and Will aren't the right size/shape so they're going to have problems. But my favorite had to be the client who basically said that Shei's black and white look was just bizarre and WTF so they would never hire her. Hee!

 

I agree that it seems like they could pull from some local talent in Korea as far as photographers as well as extra models, but maybe they don't want to struggle with a language barrier? Although it seems that they could probably find some photographers who spoke English. But does anyone else think that this guy has a thing for Will? He's always thanking him after for doing so well and being such a great subject. I get the impression that he might be angling to get Will to do a "private" photo shoot when they get back to the US!

[saber5055]

As far as the Chatelle-lie thing, whether she slept with Keith or not, either way she was gross for telling anyone or saying anything about it. WTH is up with that kind of behavior anyway? But to tell Shei and then tell her "not to tell anyone?" Way to keep your lie private. But even if she was telling the truth, who would sleep-and-tell and expect to keep the atmosphere in that small house on an equal keel? Lie or truth, Chantelle needed to be kicked off. It's my opinion she was brought back for drama since there wasn't anything happening in that house to raise ratings or get people (us) talking online. Not since the Romeo head-butt.

I'd say the same thing about Adam or Will or Keith if one of them said he had hooked up with someone in the house, but added: "Don't tell anyone!" He'd be worthy of leaving the show. Truth or lie, you're dog meat for talking about it at all.

Those "social media" scores ... does anyone know if they are real? Or are they just made-up producer BS?

Will is too tall, Adam is too short. Does anyone know who dresses them for those photo shoots? Clothing size hasn't been brought up until the go-sees when they had to fit into off-the-rack designer clothes.

But does anyone else think that this guy has a thing for Will? He's always thanking him after for doing so well and being such a great subject. I get the impression that he might be angling to get Will to do a "private" photo shoot when they get back to the US!

I noticed that, too! And who could blame him. I'd love to do a 'private shoot' with Will myself. Heh.

I'm guessing that photographer is under contract so gets to go to Korea to take photos instead of hiring local talent. Sort of like Miss J and Kelly are there at panel but aren't seen in between. They could have gotten some Korean designers to do panel instead of lugging those two along. But ... contracts. With perks!

Edited November 17, 2014 by OnceSane
slut-shaming language is not allowed

[Nutjob]

 

As for the lie, I'm not surprised that they didn't have Chantelle on tape telling Shei that she hooked up with Keith. It's not Big Brother. The cameras aren't on all the time. But I have no trouble believing that Shei was telling the truth just based on Chantelle's reaction when Keith called her out for it. Yes, everyone was ganging up on her, and that's not cool, but Keith had every right to call her out. And the way she tried to laugh it off and then just completely shut down and scurried away? That screams guilty to me.

Exactly my take on it. If she had been telling the truth, wouldn't she have defended herself in front of everyone? I know I would have.

 

Of course, Chantelle being horrible doesn't excuse Yu Tsai from his behavior.  Her request was appropriate, and she expressed herself maturely and professionally, so of course he freaked out at first.

 

Will is so, so pretty. I wish they could shrink him about 5 inches, because that face is amazing.

[Mabinogia]

I know they keep saying Will is too tall and I get it, what with sample size issues and all, but if he had been any shorter, I don't think that jumping picture would be quite as amazing as it was. It's those long limbs that made that picture so striking to me. Will might not get runway work because of his height, but I would love to see him able to do more print work. He is quite beautiful.

 

Adam is a good looking guy (so much better with the short hair) but I just do not see him as a model. Not any kind of model.

 

Keith I could see doing sports type modelling. The guy is gorgeous but has more of the athletic look.

 

I don't see Lennox as more than average, catalog at best.

 

I love Shei's look. I even like the weird hair (sometimes) but WTF with the two tone eyebrows? Seriously? WTF?

 

Is there anyone else? That's all I can think of now that Chantelle is (thankfully) once again gone. I was actually kind of surprised that designers liked her because I would have thought her skin would be seen as distracting from the clothes. Models are supposed to be just human hangers who highlight the clothes, but I found myself looking more at her skin (which I think is quite stunning, she's very fortunate it's so symmetrical) than the clothes. But I'm kind of happy to have been proven wrong.

 

As for "the lie" I tend to believe Keith more than Chantelle just based on their reactions and the fact I find him less of a liar than she is (they showed her changing her hair, and the panel seemed quite certain it had happened, not "oh, I heard a Hamster say it" but more either they saw it themselves or the hair/makeup people complained to them). But I really could care less if she lied or not. She and Shei were not friends, she was well aware of that, so why would she confide in her unless it was to brag which is not cool.

 

I think it was telling, too, that Keith was not terribly happy about being stuck with her on the go sees because everyone else paired up quickly. Not the reaction of a guy who was getting any action there.

[anonymiss]

Ugh. Keith is too self-righteous and believes Tyra's hype about him. He may have had "every right" to publicly shame Chantelle for lying about sleeping with him, but it was devoid of any compassion for the relatively harmless schoolyard crush she had on him. The girl already carries with her a lifelong sense of being an Other, so it would have been kind of him to take that into consideration in the way he chose to confront her. Yes, she LIED. But he could have shown some empathy that it came from a place of liking him, wanting to fit in/seem cooler, and bond with Shei, the fellow female who is well liked. 

 

I didn't mind Yu Tsai or Chantelle in their talk. I was pleasantly surprised they were able to communicate rationally and eventually accept each other's perspectives. Overall, though, I agree with Yu and his point: "But I don't work for you" after she said, "You rub me the wrong way a lot of the time, too." There is such a thing as deference to your employer when you are entry level. There's nothing wrong with her complaint--in fact, it was impressively articulated--but she generally lacks a sense of deference and decorum at her work site, especially one where she is getting opportunities disproportionate to her resume. 

 

Adam's admission of having been a giant math nerd growing up makes a lot of sense. I can definitely picture that and understand why he is/was such a try-hard, boasting about how much he has sex and can drink. He was my favorite this episode, just minding his own business. He does seem to model better buzzed, though.

 

Perhaps she's better elsewhere, but that Korean female model of nepotism was so bland and limited.

Edited November 18, 2014 by anonymiss

[Mattipoo]

The Korean male model was so hot though, I had to fan myself while looking at him. I hope Adam doesn't win because I think he is the epitome of "good looking guy at the mall but not a model". But since this is Tyra Banks and ANTM, where the too old, too short, and too chunky can fulfill their modeling dreams, he probably will.

[C0mputerGeek]

Mike (Cycle 20) has said that each "week" on the show is actually 4 days. One day is the Challenge (which takes place before the photo shoot). One day is the photo shoot. One day is a buffer day (travel, re-shoots, etc). The fourth day is panel. Shooting on each day takes 15-16 hours.

As for what we are shown, and thinking something didn't happen because we didn't see it, if contests/shoots are held every day, that's 24 HOURS of film that has to be edited down to 45 MINUTES of air time. That's a lot on the cutting-room floor, so to speak. If contest/shoots are every two days, that's 48 hours that has to be whittled down to 45 minutes, making even more we don't see.

 

So I can use any past trauma in my life to completely shirk responsibility for my actions? Cool beans! Next time I get stopped for speeding I will ask the officer to let me off. I was tormented as a child straight through to high school for being a Nerd (see: Other) so obviously I am not responsible for my actions. I need empathy and compassion, not a speeding ticket!

Ugh. Keith is too self-righteous and believes Tyra's hype about him. He may have had "every right" to publicly shame Chantelle for lying about sleeping with him, but it was devoid of any compassion for the relatively harmless schoolyard crush she had on him. The girl already carries with her a lifelong sense of being an Other, so it would have been kind of him to take that into consideration in the way he chose to confront her. Yes, she LIED. But he could have shown some empathy that it came from a place of liking him, wanting to fit in/seem cooler, and bond with Shei, the fellow female who is well liked. 

[snakenax]

 

There is such a thing as deference to your employer when you are entry level.

Well, Yu Tsai isn't her employer. In the show, that would be Tyra/the producers. In the real world, a model's employer would be their agent. He's not even her client. He's another employee of the client in this case, a creative director. Now the real issue is having gone to him at all, such complaints don't go to the other employee, they go to the employer, and while people i've known who have done modeling work have a lot of bad things to say about agents and agencies, that they're okay with something as lowly as a creative director talking shit to their model isn't one of them(seriously there is prestige at stake there, you're the one who gets to talk shit to your models.)

 

Though it's not a unusual mistake for young people to make, viewing being direct to be the better route but in business you go through the chain of command because if you don't it looks bad and can get you in trouble.

Edited November 18, 2014 by snakenax

[OakGoblinFly]

I feel sorry for Chantelle, getting stared at while out in public, would make me not want to leave the house. The photographer was a complete rude a-hole.

Keith should've been a gentleman, and just laughed it off. Chantelle had a crush on him and it was probably some wishful thinking on her part that they hooked up, though there may've been some fooling around. The whole episode was kind of sad, imo.

Lenox and Shei aren't all that nice. I hope Adam wins, he's extremely handsome, and the most likable. I don't know how tall or short he is, but he's got a beautiful body, and I think he has great potential.

 

 

Why should Keith "just laughed it off"?  If the roles were reversed would you expect Chantelle to "just laugh it off"?

 

I believe that anyone has the right to challenge someone who is telling blatant lies about you. 

[Kromm]

Lenox and Shei aren't all that nice. I hope Adam wins, he's extremely handsome, and the most likable. I don't know how tall or short he is, but he's got a beautiful body, and I think he has great potential.

I've seen people lumping Lenox and Shei together, like they're some kind of unit, but to my eyes they haven't been. Lenox is whiny and bitchy. To what I've seen Shei isn't.

[phoenix780]

Poor Shei has barely had three lines of dialogue all season.  

 

About the bathroom and privacy- Mirjana/Denzel were shown hooking up in the bathroom, if I remember correctly.  They would have filmed/aired that if it happened...unless...

 

I think we've missed the obvious about Chantelle: she was invited to the show by Tyra.  It's entirely possible that her sole purpose was to create drama.  

 

At the beginning they didn't need it- they had Mirjana/Denzel for that- so she was dismissed.  But at this point...if she weren't there what would these crazy kids be up to?  Other than Adam the Alcoholic story, and a little bit of Uptight Lennox, they've got nothing.  Shei's not interesting enough to feature (until she leaves, probably).  Will's drama was done when he met his parents.  Keith...the subject of this rumor and possible winner, based on the over-praise for his photos, is also a bit of a void.  Besides ex-football star, what's he got?

 

Enter Chantelle.  She brings the discord, mostly off-camera because it's all bullshit and we'd see how fake it was if it aired (and because that's an old reality show trick to keep us guessing, since we can never really know).  When Keith isn't playing along with the We Hate Chantelle story he gets pulled in directly.  And, to fill in the time before Chantelle's comment about Keith got brought up by the others, she had a weirdly-edited little fight with Yu Tsai.  It was dramatic, and it gave her a bit of a platform to talk about bullying.

 

Perhaps at the end there she just got tired playing the role, hence she went to hang out with her friends in production in the hallway (where all kinds of off-camera stuff probably happened).  Or maybe after the Yu Tsai conversation she no longer saw a benefit to being there.  Or maybe she was just a transitional piece to get us through a couple episodes before the natural drama of the impending finale takes over.

 

Point is- if I'm going to pull in hypothetical off-camera stuff, that's the story I'm going with because it's the one that, for me, fits all the puzzle pieces together.  They were making a tv show, after all, and they couldn't very well let it get stale.

[Arynm]

Just to add more fuel to the Chantelle, Keith argument, my DVR had the epsidode named "The GUY who gets caught in a lie" So I spent the entire episode thinking the guy would be the liar. When the scene happened, I was completely confused because I was sure Chantelle was the one who was lying, based on the footage shown. I had to come online to see the correct title.

[saber5055]

Well said, phoenix. Or rather, well written. This is a tv show that needs to rake in viewers, keep conversations going, get ratings up, make money. Lord knows we've been talking enough about Chantelle here, so, point proven.

 

I am one of the few who doesn't find Adam attractive. He's not a double-bagger by any means, but he's not one who would catch my eye anywhere, IRL or on this show. Will's MY eye candy.

[phoenix780]

But, they're not reversed, and Keith isn't the one with the distracting skin condition.  He could've just denied it and left it at that, he didn't have to humiliate the young woman in front of everyone. His lack of compassion made him look mean and weak to me.

 As far as "blatent lies" goes, it's not like she accused him of being a thief or a bad person, she just implied that he found her attractive enough to bed her. He over-reacted, and only made himself look bad.

Personally, I feel very sorry for her, but I may be in the minority.

What does that mean, in the context of her possibly lying about hooking up with him?

[phoenix780]

It means that if she lied, I believe it came from a place of insecurity about her attractiveness, as opposed to lying just because she's a big liar. Being stared at and bullied for most of her life, would do a number on anyone's head. Keith should've confronted her in private, one on one, rather than shame her publicly. Others may disagree and that's fine, I'm just giving my opinion..

Thanks for clarifying. 

 

Keith said his mother is a lesbian, right?  Maybe he faced some bullying of his own when he was growing up and this is how he learned to deal with it when people are whispering things behind your back: pull it out into the light in front of everyone, in a relatively calm way.  It exposes the other person and shows everyone else your strength which very well could shut it down without causing more gossip (there's no need for it, since everyone saw exactly what went down).  

 

Point is, maybe the way he confronted her has some context that we should take into consideration when judging him for the way he did it.  Heck, they all deserve that, in my opinion.  Just because we can't see the cause of their suffering as easily doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Nutjob]

I simply thought Keith did it that way because he wanted to have all the people Chantelle told in the room. They were all involved (Will implied that Shei wasn't the only person Chantelle told), so why not get it out in the open? Had he confronted her one on one, she would have likely lied about it and he would have had to confront her "publicly" anyway.

 

 

As far as "blatent lies" goes, it's not like she accused him of being a thief or a bad person, she just implied that he found her attractive enough to bed her. He over-reacted, and only made himself look bad.

IMO, Keith reacted perfectly reasonably for having someone lie about having sex with him. That's kind of a huge deal, as far as I'm concerned, and he had every right to be upset.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Nutjob

[chocolatine]

If it had been William that lied and said that he and Keith hooked up, and Keith called him out publically, stating that he's not attracted to Will, (like he did about Chantelle), I bet there'd be a whole uproar calling him out for being "homophobic".

 

 

But that didn't happen and you don't know how Keith would have reacted if it had happened, so your premise is moot.

 

I liked Keith up until the point where he became unkind, now I just see him as a conceited tool. I doubt he'll win the social media vote after this, jmho.

 

The social media voting happened while the season was being filmed. The voters only have the photo shoot pictures to go by.

[Kromm]

If it had been William that lied and said that he and Keith hooked up, and Keith called him out publically, stating that he's not attracted to Will, (like he did about Chantelle), I bet there'd be a whole uproar calling him out for being "homophobic".

Huh?  I don't get this why this (if it were even true) is relevant at all.

 

Firstly, not being attracted to another man is simply called being heterosexual. Building up a case for it being homophobic is a tough hill to climb and I am shocked you even want to go there and try and make a case for it.

 

Secondly, if it were true, what's the connection between Keith being theoretically homophobic and him saying he wasn't attracted to Chantelle?  Are we trying to say he's Vitaligophobic and trying to crucify him for the comparison?

 

I need this one explained.

[milkyaqua]

If they were doing the social media stuff now, I have a feeling we'd have wound-up with a different set of models in Korea...  However, yes, the voting on photos and social media nonsense was done at least six months ago.

 

This show has been renewed for C22 and is already casting.

[Kromm]

Many were saying how different it would be if the situation were reversed, a man lying about sleeping with a woman, so my exchanging Will for Chantell is simply in that vein. 

I couldn't know you were responding to specific earlier posts about gender reversal, until you said so.  Your original post didn't quote those earlier posts, or mention another poster and their viewpoint.  It just looked like you were responding nonsensically to the post before you about 

 

And actually I don't think we ever have to go and change Will for Chatell. Because if there really is a statement by somebody upthread trying to argue that a man lying about sleeping with a woman is okay... well... that just sounds wacky even without any kind of substitution. 

[staphdude]

Many were saying how different it would be if the situation were reversed, a man lying about sleeping with a woman, so my exchanging Will for Chantell is simply in that vein. If you want to read deeper meanings into my posts, have fun, but there aren't any.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and that's all I'm expressing, you don't have to agree. Thanks.

implying homophobia on someones part is in no way equivalent. Moreover Chantelle can't hide behind insecurities in every situation. If that were the case she really would have carte blanche to be a raging bitch.

[Julia]

I think Denzel's idea that it would be shameful to lose to someone who might hypothetically be on the receiving end of a penis says as much about his view of women as it does about his view of gay men, but I'm pretty sure what it says about gay men is that he doesn't like them.

[staphdude]

I don't think Keith is homophobic, and I don't think Denzel was either. They'd be in the wrong business if they were.

I don't see Chantelle as hiding behind anything, I think she's brave. I like the way she stood up to that idiot photographer.

We never heard her side of this "big lie", and that's too bad. Shaming her and making her cry, was a shitty thing on Keith's part.

YMMV but I find she is certainly using her condition when it suits her. Whenever she wants to gain an upper hand she whips out the fact that she has this condition and she was bullied. To me she has learned the bullying tactic and is now the mean girl

[WicketyWack]

Yu Tsai is an utter dick. His only method of communication is to scream at people about how much they are sucking -- how is that at all helpful to anyone struggling through a photo shoot? I started hating him during Matthew/Matt and now am disgusted with him over Pandagate. "I'll just call you Porcupine." How about calling her CHANTELLE, you miserable little asshat? I'm seriously not watching this show next cycle if he's in it.

Edited November 28, 2014 by OnceSane
The link to Chantelle in Eminem's video has been posted more than once in the forum.

[kingshearte]

He knew he would be on TV saying those things, right? All I can say is that I hope Tyra takes note of the fact that audience reaction seems to be pretty universally disgusted with his behaviour on this issue.