Serial

[Blakeston]

Can we talk about the reasons Bergdahl gave for why he supposedly was motivated to leave his post? I was really glad that Koenig eventually said that they didn't make sense to her or Mark Boal, because I kept questioning if I missed something.

The previews for next week mention that learning more about who Bergdahl is will put it all in perspective. Could she be suggesting that he was mentally ill to begin with? That would certainly put things in perspective for me.

[Garden Wafers]

 

Can we talk about the reasons Bergdahl gave for why he supposedly was motivated to leave his post? I was really glad that Koenig eventually said that they didn't make sense to her or Mark Boal, because I kept questioning if I missed something.

 

Same here. Especially since, if I'm remembering correctly, Bergdahl never actually witnessed any of the behavior that so infuriated him. Koenig said all of his complaints came from second-hand reports of the commanding officer's reactions. So I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it never did. 

[xaxat]

I came into this season believing that Bergdahl's story was an after the fact story he concocted. But I'm now willing to give a smidgen of credence to the possibility he really did have some kind of Savior Complex. Or maybe not.

 

I've enjoyed the last two episodes. I think it's because Sarah is doing a lot more interviewing and we aren't listening to second hand interviews with Bergdahl. In addition to all of the hard investigative work they have done, Koenig is fantastic as a proxy for the average listener when she interviews people. She asks the questions I would, and when something doesn't make sense, she actually says "That doesn't make sense."

 

I thought the look at the chain of command was great. I could understand the perspective of all parties involved. Even though they were directly opposed. When I saw the Guardian photo, the Lt. Colonel's (?) "Lawrence of Arabia shit!" comment made so much sense.

 

https://hw2.serialpodcast.org/sites/default/files/sean-smith-blackfoot_operation.jpg

 

Less Bergdahl, better episodes.

 

ETA, ‘Serial’ Subject’s Bid for New Trial Angers Dead Woman’s Family

Edited February 8, 2016 by xaxat

[dusang]

I came into this season believing that Bergdahl's story was an after the fact story he concocted. But I'm now willing to give a smidgen of credence to the possibility he really did have some kind of Savior Complex. Or maybe not.

 

I've enjoyed the last two episodes. I think it's because Sarah is doing a lot more interviewing and we aren't listening to second hand interviews with Bergdahl. In addition to all of the hard investigative work they have done, Koenig is fantastic as a proxy for the average listener when she interviews people. She asks the questions I would, and when something doesn't make sense, she actually says "That doesn't make sense."

 

I thought the look at the chain of command was great. I could understand the perspective of all parties involved. Even though they were directly opposed. When I saw the Guardian photo, the Lt. Colonel's (?) "Lawrence of Arabia shit!" comment made so much sense.

 

https://hw2.serialpodcast.org/sites/default/files/sean-smith-blackfoot_operation.jpg

 

Less Bergdahl, better episodes.

 

ETA, ‘Serial’ Subject’s Bid for New Trial Angers Dead Woman’s Family

 

I agree -- I almost think the Bergdahl story is just a vehicle for NPR/SK to tell us more about the military, the ongoing war, and make use of all the leaked documents.

 

On the Adnan/Hae thing -- I find the presumption that having someone in prison is better justice than having the right person in prison really disturbing.  Adnan has the right to this appeal.

[hendersonrocks]

Can we talk about the reasons Bergdahl gave for why he supposedly was motivated to leave his post? I was really glad that Koenig eventually said that they didn't make sense to her or Mark Boal, because I kept questioning if I missed something.

 

The previews for next week mention that learning more about who Bergdahl is will put it all in perspective. Could she be suggesting that he was mentally ill to begin with? That would certainly put things in perspective for me.

Any glimmer of empathy I had for Bowe evaporated after this last episode, and it was actually a relief to hear that Mark Boal (who I otherwise cannot stand) also thought it was a big load of BS.

 

I'm interested to see if Sarah goes into Bowe's history with the Coast Guard next week. I'd be very interested to learn more about how a guy who was removed from one branch of the military (because of concerns about his emotional stability) was then welcomed with open arms into another. And then given lots of guns.

[dusang]

Any glimmer of empathy I had for Bowe evaporated after this last episode, and it was actually a relief to hear that Mark Boal (who I otherwise cannot stand) also thought it was a big load of BS.

 

What I find disturbing on a personal level is how hard I find it to summon up any empathy for Bowe, or really for any of the hostages/prisoners whose "circumstances of capture" were essentially their own blind stupidity.  Even after listening to that episode where SK spoke with the Personnel Recovery people I always have to pull my thoughts back and say, "no one deserves that."  Sure, why not vacation in an active war zone, notorious for abductions and random acts of violence with high levels of civilian casualties, multiple factions and guerrilla fighters everywhere, where you'll clearly be identified with the foreign enemy? It actually enrages me because, even if they weren't actively thinking it, it seems as though they were fundamentally relying on their whiteness and privilege to get them whatever the fuck they wanted as it had in every previous life event with absolutely no regard for reality.

 

But no one deserves years of capture... no one deserves that... no one deserves that.

[ExplainItAgain]

No activity for a month! Is anyone here keeping up with Serial this season? Maybe it's just me, but what a crash and burn. It seems like no one is talking about this season - so little media and none of my friends or coworkers are into it.

 

I think they are up to episode 9. I stopped after 4. Did it get better?

[dusang]

No activity for a month! Is anyone here keeping up with Serial this season? Maybe it's just me, but what a crash and burn. It seems like no one is talking about this season - so little media and none of my friends or coworkers are into it.

 

I think they are up to episode 9. I stopped after 4. Did it get better?

 

I'm keeping up with it, although my listening to all podcasts is a little delayed right now.  It is very different from last season.  I don't think it S2 was bad to begin, so I can't say that it "got better" -- I think it's really interesting.  As I've said before, in a lot of ways this season seems to be an opportunity to delve deeper into the Afghan war as a whole.  The most recent episode was about the trade that finally got Bowe back into US custody, which is fascinating really.  Personally, I was alarmed that events that seem to be of global importance, that should have been headline news, and that occurred within the past two to three years, are completely unfamiliar to me -- I may not be a news junkie but I don't ignore the news entirely!

[hendersonrocks]

The most recent episode was about the trade that finally got Bowe back into US custody, which is fascinating really.

 

I'm still listening, though typically a week after it comes out because I just don't have the same motivation to listen as I did in Season 1. That being said...totally agree with this, and that the last few episodes have been much more interesting because they're less about Bowe and his special brand of delusion (which may actually have been diagnosed, as discussed in a previous ep) and more about the war and military overall.

[EllieH]

 

It is very different from last season.  I don't think it S2 was bad to begin, so I can't say that it "got better" -- I think it's really interesting.

 

I finally got around to finishing off the last few episodes of the season. I enjoyed the season and found it quite interesting, despite it being quite different from season 1.

 

Season 1 of Serial was a show I'd be up and listening to each Thursday morning while I got ready for work, and one I talked about with friends and got my family hooked on during the drive to my aunt's house for Thanksgiving that year.  Season 2 was more like This American Life/ Stuff You Missed In History Class/ Stuff You Should Know -- shows I often let a couple of episodes stack up before getting around to listening them. And Season 2 never really came up with my friends, though I was thinking I should ask two of them who were really into it last year if they listened and what they thought.

[Guest]

I'm slowly catching up, just out of curiosity if it gets any better.  I really don't have interest in military life or events in the middle east (sorry) so I'm not enjoying it much.  

[Fukui San]

Well, eventually it gets into POLITICS!  Bet you can't contain your excitement now!

 

In all honesty, the politics episode was pretty good. 

[ExplainItAgain]

I wonder when season 3 will start. Last I heard it was spring 2016...and well, we're into summer now. I'm guessing it got pushed way back because of the biweekly schedule of season 2. Has the topic even been leaked yet? I know a lot of people figured out season 2 was about Bowe because SK was seen at his hearings.

[biakbiak]

New trial For Adnan granted.

[ExplainItAgain]

I guess I'd be really surprised if this goes to trial again. It seems to be in the best interest of both parties to settle with some kind of plea deal.

[jenrising]

Agreed. I think the most likely outcome (any appeals aside) is the State offers an Alford plea and Adnan takes it. Between the length of time he's served already and the public scrutiny, I don't see Maryland wanting to bother with a new trial. 

[Guest]

I would hope they'd bother with a new trial rather than let a convicted/suspected killer walk away.  But I think he's guilty.  

[xaxat]

Two former classmates dispute account of alibi witness for 'Serial' subject Adnan Syed

Quote

More than a decade after the murder conviction of Adnan Syed, whose guilt or innocence became the subject of the popular podcast "Serial," two former high school classmates have emerged, saying a key alibi witness would "make up a lie" to help his case.

The former Woodlawn High School students, who are sisters, gave sworn statements to the Maryland attorney general's office this summer, recalling a heated argument in 1999 with Asia McClain in class after she said she believed in Syed's innocence and wanted to help him, according to a new court filing.

I've always thought that Asia's certainty on what happened back then was. . . odd. 

But I'm someone who has trouble remembering what I had for breakfast a couple of days ago.

[topanga]

On 8/23/2016 at 0:36 AM, xaxat said:

Two former classmates dispute account of alibi witness for 'Serial' subject Adnan Syed

I've always thought that Asia's certainty on what happened back then was. . . odd. 

But I'm someone who has trouble remembering what I had for breakfast a couple of days ago.

I think the entire case was odd, which is why it made for such a fascinating podcast. I always thought the prosecution's witness (Will? I can't remember his name) was just as unreliable as a witness. His inconsistent stories, the time-lapses during the interrogation, etc. And I can't remember--but it seems like none of this was brought up at the trial???

And then the fact that Adnan completely "forgot" about large chunks of his day. As opposed to the current boyfriend, who upon hearing that his girlfriend was murdered, immediately started mentally piecing together his day and considering his alibis. He'd watched enough Law & Order to know the police would question him, and he didn't want to sound like a flubbing idiot--which would probably make him seem like a suspect. 

[dusang]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

I think the entire case was odd, which is why it made for such a fascinating podcast. I always thought the prosecution's witness (Will? I can't remember his name) was just as unreliable as a witness. His inconsistent stories, the time-lapses during the interrogation, etc. And I can't remember--but it seems like none of this was brought up at the trial???

And then the fact that Adnan completely "forgot" about large chunks of his day. As opposed to the current boyfriend, who upon hearing that his girlfriend was murdered, immediately started mentally piecing together his day and considering his alibis. He'd watched enough Law & Order to know the police would question him, and he didn't want to sound like a flubbing idiot--which would probably make him seem like a suspect. 

Jay.  I may forget what I had for breakfast and most of my passwords but random facts that will serve little to no purpose in my daily life, I've got down.

Actually, I found the episode where SK talked to the Innocence Project and they were like "if you're innocent you're innocent and you really won't know" really interesting because it totally refutes that idea -- it's more suspicious that Don had a ready alibi (provided by his mother, no less) than Adnan's lack of an alibi.

[topanga]

1 minute ago, dusang said:

Jay.  I may forget what I had for breakfast and most of my passwords but random facts that will serve little to no purpose in my daily life, I've got down.

Actually, I found the episode where SK talked to the Innocence Project and they were like "if you're innocent you're innocent and you really won't know" really interesting because it totally refutes that idea -- it's more suspicious that Don had a ready alibi (provided by his mother, no less) than Adnan's lack of an alibi.

Ha. You're like me and random quotes. I'll remind my friends of something they said years ago, and they have no idea what I'm talking about. 

And I agree with you in that it's a normal human trait not to remember the exact details of our day. If a police officer walked up to me and asked what I was doing last Thursday, I'd have a hard time remembering the details. But I've been so conditioned by police and lawyer TV shows that if someone close to me were murdered, even in my grief, I'd nail down in my head where I was every minute of that day, assuming I might eventually be questioned by the police. 

[dusang]

10 minutes ago, topanga said:

Ha. You're like me and random quotes. I'll remind my friends of something they said years ago, and they have no idea what I'm talking about. 

And I agree with you in that it's a normal human trait not to remember the exact details of our day. If a police officer walked up to me and asked what I was doing last Thursday, I'd have a hard time remembering the details. But I've been so conditioned by police and lawyer TV shows that if someone close to me were murdered, even in my grief, I'd nail down in my head where I was every minute of that day, assuming I might eventually be questioned by the police. 

Yes, I see that.  But I also see an 18-year-old who's spent a day playing hooky and getting high hearing that his ex is "missing" and possibly brushing it off for a day (or four) as some weird thing that will resolve itself.  By the time she was confirmed dead it had been weeks since that day for him to look back on and reconstruct.

[xaxat]

Bo Bergdahl asked the Obama administration for a pardon.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. 

[ElleBee]

Has anyone heard news about when season 3 starts? I've tried looking online and can't find any updates.

[starri]

The only news is their new podcast, S-Town, which is dropping, Netflix-style, sometimes in March.

Welcome to Binge Listening.

[ElleBee]

11 minutes ago, starri said:

The only news is their new podcast, S-Town, which is dropping, Netflix-style, sometimes in March.

Welcome to Binge Listening.

Hadn't heard that--thanks! I kind of like the anticipation of weekly episodes, but I'm just happy for new content.

[ExplainItAgain]

S-Town is up! Who is listening? Listening to the first episode right now. This John is a character - total Southern accent. Reddit has a link to the shrub maze mentioned in the episode.

[Bama]

I'm on Episode 3 - this is something else!!

When can we talk details?  Do we need to spoiler tag it?

As y'all can tell from my username, I live in Alabama.  I've met SO many Johns in my 44 years.

Episodes 2 and 3 are a fucking gut punch.

[ExplainItAgain]

I'm only through episode 4 - crazy turn of events at the end of #2 and #4! Cant wait to hear the last three tomorrow.

[DiabLOL]

Finished S-Town just now!

[Deanie87]

On 3/28/2017 at 7:28 PM, Bama said:

I'm on Episode 3 - this is something else!!

When can we talk details?  Do we need to spoiler tag it?

As y'all can tell from my username, I live in Alabama.  I've met SO many Johns in my 44 years.

Episodes 2 and 3 are a fucking gut punch.

I am on episode 5 right now and I am loving it!  It has moved me to tears a couple of times.  I"m from Maryland, but so many of these people are familiar to me as well, some in my own family.  So far I really like the narrator/reporter.  He isn't at all condescending and you can feel his empathy and his affection for the people of this town, but also his frustration with many of their actions. Lord, can I relate to that.

Since it is kind of a separate entity from Serial, I wonder if its possible to get its own forum.  I will contact the mods.  

[RainbowBrite]

2 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I am on episode 5 right now and I am loving it!  It has moved me to tears a couple of times.  I"m from Maryland, but so many of these people are familiar to me as well, some in my own family.  So far I really like the narrator/reporter.  He isn't at all condescending and you can feel his empathy and his affection for the people of this town, but also his frustration with many of their actions. Lord, can I relate to that.

Since it is kind of a separate entity from Serial, I wonder if its possible to get its own forum.  I will contact the mods.  

I really enjoyed the narrator as well; he was able to build rapport with so many people on differing sides of the situation, and he handled tense situations really well. Imagine the patience he must have had, to talk on the phone to all of those people (and in person) for 6+ hours straight. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by RainbowBrite
whoops! changed "of" to "on"

[ABay]

I'm halfway through episode 3 and I don't think I can listen to any more. 

[ABay]

I have a question I hope someone who has listened beyond episode 3 of S-Town will answer. What has me hesitating over whether to press on

Spoiler

is the relatives who show up out of the blue and the dogs. My mother had dementia and the idea of John's mother and these people is a bit too intense. Do the relatives get the property? Is his mom OK (in the sense that she isn't victimized by these people? Cruelty to animals is something I just can't bear, so are the dogs OK?

Thanks.

[starri]

At the risk of going into spoiler territory, the story gets...complicated.  And at the time of the release, parts of it are unresolved.  However, Mary Grace is okay.

[RainbowBrite]

14 hours ago, ABay said:

I have a question I hope someone who has listened beyond episode 3 of S-Town will answer. What has me hesitating over whether to press on

  Hide contents

is the relatives who show up out of the blue and the dogs. My mother had dementia and the idea of John's mother and these people is a bit too intense. Do the relatives get the property? Is his mom OK (in the sense that she isn't victimized by these people? Cruelty to animals is something I just can't bear, so are the dogs OK?

Thanks.

Spoiler

I don't think the dog issue is resolved, unless I missed it. There was mention of Tyler bringing a couple home with him, but it sounds like John had a couple dozen... He told the county clerk that he left money in an envelope to euthanize the dogs :(

[Deanie87]

I just finished episode 5 and 

 

Spoiler

John's non-relationship with Owen/Olin?, is just heartbreaking.  Brian Reed is really able to get such depths out of these people and he, himself, seems to have such empathy as well.  I'm finding that I am enjoying this podcast more that the first season of Serial.  I am definitely much more emotional invested.   As much as John sometimes seemed to have good intentions, he really was kind of a selfish jerk.  I'm glad that his mom is able to "enjoy" life a little better now, and while I can understand why and how John got to the place of suicide, to leave everything in such disarray and in such turmoil is infuriating.  

 Of course, I still have one more episode to go, and I seem to change my mind about everything after every new episode, so we'll see!

[ABay]

Thanks, folks. I'm usually adamant about avoiding spoilers, but in this case there are potential endings that would upset me too much to listen to.

[starri]

I honestly found John unlikable a lot of the time.  I have my misanthropic periods as well, but he seemed to exist just on anger.

My DNA is Appalachian Hillbilly, not Deep South Redneck, so the accents aren't exactly the same, but I could absolutely 100% picture every single person that Brian interviewed.  "Sugar in my gas tank" is a euphemism for "gay" that I haven't heard in a very, very long time.

[JessePinkman]

John is...unreal. You know the phrase "you couldn't write this stuff"? That was his entire person. He's equal parts fascinating and exhausting. 

Spoiler

 

I think I've figured out how he was able to get so many people to spend so many of their hours on the phone with him despite his misanthropic ways. He sort of love bombed them, he showered them with attention and who doesn't like attention where the person appears to appreciate your company? Plus John is a totally charming guy and without question incredibly smart.

Despite that I think he had little interest in the people he called friends, it seems to me he just wanted someone to listen to him. No converse with him but just to hear him speak. He had to be practically badgered by people before he understood when he hurt them because he was unable to see much beyond himself even with being a student of the world or whatever it was he called himself. He had severe narcissistic tendencies.

Also he pinged my gaydar as soon as he started speaking and the more comfortable he got with Brian the more he answered my typical "Gay or just southern?" question.

BTW I'm gay and in the south so no pitchforks please.

 

[ExplainItAgain]

I didn't enjoy S-Town as much as Serial. It definitely started out promising but took a turn into something different. Not bad, but not necessarily what I was expecting. I really hope the maze will be saved, it hurt my heart that 

Spoiler

the Burts own that land now.

I wonder if Serial season one was just one of those lightning in a bottle moments that had all the right ingredients at exactly the right time. Or maybe I enjoyed the mystery part of it and I should stick to podcasts more in that vein.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I really enjoyed S-Town. I wondered if

Spoiler

the new owner didn't want the soil tested for mercury because it would make it harder to sell later.

Of course, now that the entire season is out, he's going to have to test it for mercury otherwise no one will pay a fair price for it.

[ABay]

Finished it this morning. @ExplainItAgain, I hoped it was going to be a mystery, too, and hoped it would finally swerve back when people expressed doubts about the death. I didn't dislike the story, but I prefer mysteries of a different sort. 

My DNA is Great Lakes redneck and I, too, could picture every one of the guys at the tattoo parlor. Tyler reminded me of a lot of boys I grew up with. What did you all make of Tyler asking Brian to turn off the recording when they were discussing his searching the property?

I ended up being really pissed off at John for neglecting his mother. Some of the things that Brian said about the house were awful and I hope Mary Grace is thriving where she is. Even more than that, I'm pissed about the dogs. In my mind, they're all off a beautiful farm with being taken care of by good people. 

If the speculation about the origin of John's problem, or the exacerbation of it, is true, then some of it was beyond his control although his own stupid fault. 

[RainbowBrite]

18 hours ago, ABay said:

I ended up being really pissed off at John for neglecting his mother. Some of the things that Brian said about the house were awful and I hope Mary Grace is thriving where she is. Even more than that, I'm pissed about the dogs. In my mind, they're all off a beautiful farm with being taken care of by good people. 

This is what really bothered me about the whole podcast. I understand it's "real life" and life is messy, but

Spoiler

the man that was interviewed in the first two episodes, and the man spoken about for the following 5, would not have left his mother in that situation. He stayed in that home for his whole life due at least in part to some sort of family loyalty/attachment, and then he decides to abandon her without any safety net? He talked about suicide well before his death so it's not like this was only a heat-of-the-moment act. He had time to plan and ensure she was taken care of (and the dogs too, of course). **I should qualify that by saying that I understand his mother was not getting the quality of life she deserved prior to John's death, but I still do not believe he would have left her without some sort of safety net**

Edited April 3, 2017 by RainbowBrite
added qualifier

[bosawks]

Aw man, all I can think of to say is dammit John, sigh.....

[Indy]

19 hours ago, bosawks said:

Aw man, all I can think of to say is dammit John, sigh.....

I'm with you.  

The whole thing was equal parts sad, strange, interesting, disturbing, and frustrating, with a healthy sprinkling of WTF on top of it all

[ElleBee]

The strange part about S-Town is that there wouldn't be much of a story if John

Spoiler

hadn't committed suicide.

I'm surprised Brian Reed spent so much time and energy (hours of interviews, late night phone calls, trips) pursuing the story after it became clear that

Spoiler

there wasn't a murder, since he couldn't have foreseen that John would kill himself (without which there wasn't much of a story).

[bosawks]

FYI, the podcast Talking Crime took on S-town and it's, as usual, pretty entertaining.

Edited April 8, 2017 by bosawks

[ABay]

On 4/5/2017 at 5:23 PM, bosawks said:

FYI, the podcast Talking Crime took on S-town and it's, as usual, is pretty entertaining.

Replying in the Which Podcasts Fuel Your Listening Pleasure thread.

[TattleTeeny]

Just finished it. I actually yelled "Oh noooooo!"my car alone at the end of episode 2. And John B. was downright clairvoyant when it came to the political powers that be in 2017. Not that he liked much of anything, but he would really not like this.

I really want to know more about Faye, the town clerk. Something was very weird there with her and that list of people John knew.

Edited April 15, 2017 by TattleTeeny