S05.E05: Self Help

[natyxg]

If what they discussed on TTD really happened then it seems silly that they'd be more afraid of Abraham than of other humans who might do such things to them. As it stood in the actual show aren't we kind of left to think he just went and tore apart some people for no good reason? I really have to rewatch this one.

 

I figured he just went nuts on the other people who probably posed a threat, but went too far, like he lost it. Like he lost it with Eugene. And just like Rosita, who was griping her rifle by the end of his beat down of Eugene, he scared his family, who probably weren’t used to that level of violence yet, so they were dumb and left him....aaaand didn’t even make it out of the parking lot.

 

Because my cable sucks and I experience disruptions in my service several times an episode, what was written on the ground outside the firehouse?

 

 

A warning that the building was full of sick people that should be left to die.

[CarpeDiem54]

I can't wait to watch this tomorrow night!  It sounds so much better than Beth and the Lollypop Guild.

[wirebitersm]

What I got from the show is that perhaps those were people they were hiding out with and maybe there was a disagreement about resources and he killed all of them.

[Lillith]

Even with the tragic backstory I just can't stand Abraham.  He's just douchey and stupid to me. 

 

I did like that the actually gave Rosita lines and an apparent brain.  Tara was great too, she's grown on me.

 

Glenn and Maggie, both of whom I generally liked in the past were just sort of there.

 

Not the best episode but not the worst.  A solid "meh" for me.

[bosawks]

I'm not going to lie watching The Talking Dead is really improving my opinion of this episode.

[ParadoxLost]

I figured he just went nuts on the other people who probably posed a threat, but went too far, like he lost it. Like he lost it with Eugene. And just like Rosita, who was griping her rifle by the end of his beat down of Eugene, he scared his family, who probably weren’t used to that level of violence yet, so they were dumb and left him....aaaand didn’t even make it out of the parking lot.

 

If they intended that, they should have done a better job showing it.  Lately we've been introduced to the Governor, Joe's band of killers, the cannibals of Terminus, the people who turned them to cannibals through rape and torture, Father Gabriel, and Dawn and her merry band of rapists.

 

I'm no longer inclined to give anyone but the original members of Rick's group the benefit of the doubt unless given an explicit reason.

Edited November 10, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Pete Martell]

At this point I can't tell if it's the hair dye or the character's complete lack of couth or it's the actor himself that just isn't cutting it for me, but something isn't working.  Abraham's back story was pretty damn rough and I kept thinking there at the end, watching him put the gun in his mouth only to be stopped by Eugene's shrieking across the parking lot that I should be really moved by this.  From a pure storytelling standpoint, it should be just devastating that the one thing that gave him reason to live on was just taken away from him and he's been left looking like the world's biggest schmuck.  So why aren't I really feeling it?

 

On the plus side, still better than last week.

 

We don't really have a reason to care at this point. His backstory is horrific, but that's true for everyone. We barely know him and what we do know of him is unpleasant and isolated and aggressive. It's not like Michonne, where we learned nothing of her past until we saw her in many sympathetic moments. 

 

I'm hoping they will use this reveal to start to open him up and give us a reason to care.

[NurseGiGi]

I felt for Abraham and his backstory and I can understand now why he had tunnel vision in relation to getting Eugene to DC.  That's why he didn't want anyone questioning him because, I think, he probably suspected deep down that the story was BS.  He just needed something to believe in so he wouldn't have to deal with the death of his family.

 

I wasn't thrilled with the episode and really only liked that last few minutes.  I liked it only slightly better than Beth's story, which is not saying much.

[TexasChic]

I was surprised by how much I liked this. There were times I felt like the writers had been reading the forums and made sure to address everything: the mullet, why Abraham was so single minded about the 'mission', Abraham thanking Glen for coming, and when Glen said he made a deal, Abraham said, "You could have gone back on that, what was I going to do?" I liked the funny moments a lot too; Glen's quip about Abraham's TMI, Tara peeking at naked Rosita. I am left wondering a few things, one of which, what is the significance of Abraham's cut that keeps bleeding?

[BrokenRemote]

I was less put off by Eugene watching the sex than by Abe and Rosita basically shrugging and getting on with it, like 'oh, well, if it makes him happy'. Abe could have yelled at him to go away-at least some attempt. Otherwise I'm left thinking they enjoyed putting on a show.

I could not see the wall of walkers without squinting, and I have a big TV. I still call 'no way' on the stench of a few thousand more walkers breaking through the everyday funk.

Pete, I love your stance as defender of all underdogs. (I didn't hate the episode either.)

[peach]

Awful.  Boring.  Abraham is unbearable to me.

[Nashville]

I was surprised by how much I liked this.

Same here! if for no other reason than Rosita's dialogue extended past monosyllables.

[peach]

. I am left wondering a few things, one of which, what is the significance of Abraham's cut that keeps bleeding?

 

I think it was supposed to bring him back to that moment when he had blood-covered hands after killing the men in his flashbacks.

[SoSueMe]

I was surprised by how much I liked this. There were times I felt like the writers had been reading the forums and made sure to address everything: the mullet, why Abraham was so single minded about the 'mission', Abraham thanking Glen for coming, and when Glen said he made a deal, Abraham said, "You could have gone back on that, what was I going to do?" I liked the funny moments a lot too; Glen's quip about Abraham's TMI, Tara peeking at naked Rosita. I am left wondering a few things, one of which, what is the significance of Abraham's cut that keeps bleeding?

Address everything but Maggie's lack of concern for her sister's status.

[nodorothyparker]

I did like the realization on Glenn's face when he realized the bum deal he and Maggie were in when they wanted to get some supplies from the untouched town and Sgt adamantium nipples refused to stop.

 

I liked this too although it was aggravating that it never seemed to occur to any of them as Abraham was sliding further and further off the reality train that they had the numbers to just walk off and leave him.  Because he was so fixated on his mission, he wasn't making any practical sense and you could see them all slowly realizing it.

 

I seriously couldn't tell what they looking at at first when they stopped in the road.  I don't know if I need new glasses or it really was too poorly shot for us to immediately understand that there was supposed to be a huge herd off in the distance because I wasn't sure until they told me.

 

I'm liking Tara more and more.

[SimoneS]

Sounds like Eugene alive. Well, he better learn to kill walkers without a water hose.

 

I love Tara. I always liked her, but grew to love her when she first imprinted on Glenn.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SimoneS

[placate]

I call BS on the fire hose kills. Eugene only hit a few of them on the head, the rest got hit in the chest.

I wish the writers could make a script where they show scenes from all three groups.

[MrWhyt]

 

Also, AMC is a pay channel-Why so many fucking commercials?

 

To make money. AMC is not subscriber supported like HBO.

[Milaxx]

I saw him see the bodies and rip off his dog tags, didn't make the connection with his family. I should have, in retrospect. I still say the show didn't give his family enough justification to run away from him.

I assumed it was people he was close to and that with them dead he was alone and couldn't take the thought of being alone. However.....

 

I felt for Abraham and his backstory and I can understand now why he had tunnel vision in relation to getting Eugene to DC.  That's why he didn't want anyone questioning him because, I think, he probably suspected deep down that the story was BS.  He just needed something to believe in so he wouldn't have to deal with the death of his family.

 

I wasn't thrilled with the episode and really only liked that last few minutes.  I liked it only slightly better than Beth's story, which is not saying much.

discovering that it was his family added another layer to the heartbreak. 

 

Overall I liked this episode. I found it much more engaging and entertaining than last week's. However, I must say, Abraham and Rosita had some serious blinders on as far as Eugene was concerned. When Glenn & Tara went through that tunnel before they found Maggie, he manipulated them so they ended up at the other end of the tunnel. This time he sabotages the bus hoping it will make them stay with Rick & Co. I feel bad for Abraham. He must have been really desperate for something to believe in to buy all the BS Eugene was spouting.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Milaxx

[ParadoxLost]

I'm not going to lie watching The Talking Dead is really improving my opinion of this episode.

This one feels like they left a few important points on the cutting room floor and are counting on Talking Dead and the comics to fill in the blanks.  That is a problem.

 

What they left on the cutting room floor is the last of the three questions.  Why did you kill humans?

[NurseGiGi]

I'm not sure if Abe's family was afraid of him or traumatized by what had just happened to them.  Probably both.  It looked like Amy Winehouse just opted out and took her kids with her.

Edited November 11, 2014 by NurseGiGi

[ghoulina]

I think it was supposed to bring him back to that moment when he had blood-covered hands after killing the men in his flashbacks.

 

That's what I thought as well. But my husband insists that he's been bit. Ever since Jim season 1, he insists any injured person has been bit. It doesn't help that he feels validated because Bob WAS actually bit a few episodes back. I am going to slowly lose my mind...

[TexasChic]

Address everything but Maggie's lack of concern for her sister's status.

Ha, you're right about that!

[BrokenRemote]

Never mind the sound-I either lip read, or have my neighbor pounding on the wall. Can't hear, can't see...

I've taken to watching with closed-captioning turned on. Helps immensely. We shouldn't have to do that or turn up the bright settings on our TVs though. Last week I didn't see our gang walking away and Gareth's group approaching the church until the third time I watched.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Ok, I do think Eugene is smart. I'm guessing they decide to still take him to DC on the chance he might be able to do something, that last thin thread of hope.

Did anyone get what Abe's family was so horrified about with the blood on his hands that they ran away and left a note not to follow? I can't believe they'd be that shocked by him killing walkers...

 

 

        He wasn't killing walkers, they were human.

[TexasChic]

That's what I thought as well. But my husband insists that he's been bit. Ever since Jim season 1, he insists any injured person has been bit. It doesn't help that he feels validated because Bob WAS actually bit a few episodes back. I am going to slowly lose my mind...

LOL! I'm afraid to say I was also thinking he had been bit, but I was hoping for something not quite so cliché.

[Milaxx]

I think it was supposed to bring him back to that moment when he had blood-covered hands after killing the men in his flashbacks.

Agreed. That was the hand he held the can in when he was beating those guys. The fact that is doesn't heal is a reminder of the thing he's trying so desperately to forget.

[BrokenRemote]

I agree that they shouldn't use The Talking Dead to fill in the gaps the show left. It seems every week they're explaining scenes a lot if us don't get until they give us more backstory on TTD.

(And I don't mean the bits I missed this week due to multi-tasking.)

Edited November 10, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[Pete Martell]

I agree that they shouldn't use The Talking Dead to fill in the gaps the show left. It seems every week they're explaining scenes a lot if us don't get until they give us more backstory on TTD.

 

I don't remember that many having this much detail left offscreen. I can't help wondering if AMC said they didn't want the rape of his wife and daughter mentioned on the episode.

[Mu Shu]

I refuse to watch TTD. Get your point across in the actual damn show.

[Whimsy]

I was thinking that Eugene may be autistic or has asperger's. His speech pattern and the bluntness, it just seemed like he was super high functioning, but still possibly autistic. Or, the actor made weird choices. Not sure.

[NurseGiGi]

I agree that they shouldn't use The Talking Dead to fill in the gaps the show left. It seems every week they're explaining scenes a lot if us don't get until they give us more backstory on TTD.

Yes to this!  I'm getting tired of having to watch TTD to fully understand what happened on the episode.  I never watched this show until I realized they were discussing things that weren't included in the episode.  The episode should be able to stand on it's own.  

Edited November 10, 2014 by NurseGiGi

[SimoneS]

I don't remember that many having this much detail left offscreen. I can't help wondering if AMC said they didn't want the rape of his wife and daughter mentioned on the episode.

 

I don't know why AMC would be suddenly so squeamish though. They let them show Carl about to be raped which is far worse than mentioning the rape of Abraham's wife and daughter. I suspect that the episode was edited after to accommodate the obscene number of commercials.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SimoneS

[BrokenRemote]

I don't remember that many having this much detail left offscreen. I can't help wondering if AMC said they didn't want the rape of his wife and daughter mentioned on the episode.

But they could have had it almost happen like with Carl and Joe's gang. Even if they'd showed the bad guys hitting the kids or making lewd comments about the wife, or in some way menacing them. Although if they had it all shot and it got cut there may not have been time to go back and shoot something new, I suppose.

[Pete Martell]

You're both right about Carl, but I seem to remember Gimple sort of dancing around that scene in interviews, even though it was clearly sexual assault. 

 

There couldn't be any real dancing here. They'd have to say it. 

[ghoulina]

I was thinking that Eugene may be autistic or has asperger's. His speech pattern and the bluntness, it just seemed like he was super high functioning, but still possibly autistic. Or, the actor made weird choices. Not sure.

 

I thought the same thing. When they were killing all those walkers after the bus flipped, he looked like he was experiencing sensory overload. My daughter is mildly Autistic and she does not deal well will high stimulus situations. If there's a lot of commotion around her she will often just put up a wall and you cannot even get through to her. That's kind of how I saw Eugene in that situation. 

 

He is really smart, but seems to have a hard time functioning sometimes.

[SoSueMe]

Oooooh, Beth-sized cremation.......?????

[natyxg]

I could not see the wall of walkers without squinting, and I have a big TV.

 

THIS! They kept talking and talking and I couldn't figure out what the hell they were seeing or what danger they were talking about. It's like last week with Beth and the doctor id: show a damn close up of the id, damn it. I didn't catch what the hell that beat was about until I read it here.

[TexasChic]

I was thinking that Eugene may be autistic or has asperger's. His speech pattern and the bluntness, it just seemed like he was super high functioning, but still possibly autistic. Or, the actor made weird choices. Not sure.

This is what I always thought as well.

[Pete Martell]

I thought the same thing. When they were killing all those walkers after the bus flipped, he looked like he was experiencing sensory overload. My daughter is mildly Autistic and she does not deal well will high stimulus situations. If there's a lot of commotion around her she will often just put up a wall and you cannot even get through to her. That's kind of how I saw Eugene in that situation. 

 

He is really smart, but seems to have a hard time functioning sometimes.

 

I took that from the scenes where he kept making lists, especially the note-perfect list of all those who had died for his cause. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about it, as it's such a stereotype of autistic people, but McDermitt does a good job with the role.

[Zanne]

I really enjoyed Abraham and Eugene on The Talking Dead. I like seeing the actors have a sense of humor about the show and not behave like it's the most serious subject ever.

[BrokenRemote]

I was thinking that Eugene may be autistic or has asperger's. His speech pattern and the bluntness, it just seemed like he was super high functioning, but still possibly autistic. Or, the actor made weird choices. Not sure.

You know, that makes sense. Although he is pretty social (talking Tara's ear off as they walked the railroad track), his socializing is still awkward. It makes the whole situation even sadder, really. So far, everyone we've seen with any kind if mental health issues has been a mad dictator.

Again I say that Eugene really is smart. He's come up with some clever stuff. My money's on them still going to DC. Abe would latch onto that rope in a heartbeat, if it meant he had mission once again.

[TexasChic]

THIS! They kept talking and talking and I couldn't figure out what the hell they were seeing or what danger they were talking about. It's like last week with Beth and the doctor id: show a damn close up of the id, damn it. I didn't catch what the hell that beat was about until I read it here.

Ditto on both of these. As for the horde, I thought it was a bunch of dead cattle that had starved while left fenced in. Since when have they mentioned smelling a big group coming their way?

[Milaxx]

I don't know why AMC would be suddenly so squeamish though. They let them show Carl about to be raped which is far worse than mentioning the rape of Abraham's wife and daughter. I suspect that the episode was edited after to accommodate the obscene number of commercials.

I wonder if it's an FCC thing. Like perhaps they could only have so many rape scenes per season or something and they used up their allotment with Carl & Beth.

[valjane]

Ditto on both of these. As for the horde, I thought it was a bunch of dead cattle that had starved while left fenced in. Since when have they mentioned smelling a big group coming their way?

I also thought the stench was probably from dead livestock, although they probably would've been eaten before they starved.

I liked the episode, though I kind of hate that they've returned to last season's format of following only certain characters one episode at a time. Looks like we still have to wait two weeks to see Rick's group again!

[Racj82]

I think it was supposed to bring him back to that moment when he had blood-covered hands after killing the men in his flashbacks.

yep. Abraham has a continuous wound that won't stop bleeding. Both literally and figuratively. What happened in the store and loss of his family will not haunting no matter how hard he tries.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

What I got from the show is that perhaps those were people they were hiding out with and maybe there was a disagreement about resources and he killed all of them.

 

         Sadly is was much worse than that, Red  was justified in killing them.

[Armchair Critic]

Why didn't they make it more clear what happened in Abraham's flashback? I shouldn't have to watch the Talking Dead and read the spoiler here to understand.

[BrokenRemote]

Almost forgot--I liked that Tara brought up finding bikes. It seems like they'd be better than walking if you're following a road. Even if you have a vehicle you could strap your bikes to it in case you break down. They'd be a ride to the next working vehicle. Besides which, those are going to be fewer and further between as time goes on. Bikes will still be around.

[Nashville]

Ditto on both of these. As for the horde, I thought it was a bunch of dead cattle that had starved while left fenced in. Since when have they mentioned smelling a big group coming their way?

 

Aces up on this one.  My first thought was "stockyard" - but almost as soon as I articulated the thought, it was immediately chased by the notion "Wait a minute - we're more than a year into the ZA.  How would they still be smelling...?"