S04.E06: Family Business

[snarkastic]

I thought she did say she was requesting her own file and that it would take a couple weeks. But if you mean a file on the DQ herself, I'm not sure Emma would have known what to search for. We know she used the name Sarah Foster (omg haha I get it. Foster) in Storybrooke, but she could have had an entirely different identity wherever/whenever she had Emma. I'm still not sure how much info that file she found in the ice cream truck even gave her. Either way, by the time Emma could track an info, the plot would have moved far away from anyone caring anymore.

[Mitch]

Entertaining episode...(since S1 I can't really say "Good," episode anymore but if this piece of fluffy, campy over the top show entertains me in a dumb way I am good.) I actually like Belle more now that we know she is not a simpering saint...well, she is is still simpering but... Her thing with the rock was more like "I can do both if that dumb girl would just hang on a bit more..." which made her more interesting to me then a boring Charming "Hold on yonder maid, I will SAVE you!" I liked that she used the dumb dagger plot thing, I hate Rump (not the way they want me too) and love when his misogynistic ass gets handed back to him by Zelena or Belle or anyone.

 

I will chime in with everyone that the Evil Mirror of Truth is about the best magical plot device this how has pulled out in a long time. I love Regina so I would love a scene where she (does she know Sydney if free yet) goes to the mirror..."Sydney, where are my car keys?"  and her image appears "Well dear, you knocked them off the kitchen counter last night after your first bottle and a half of wine. And really, what happened to Mayor Mills...your mooning over that polaroid of you and the Woodsman, listening to Air Supply..oh memo to you, time has started and 1985 is over...  means you need to give up your villain card forever. Your worse then Mary Margaret and SHE was CURSED! By the way, rejection means you have to look even better then ever....now your dressing like you either just came from scrubbing the bathroon or you polyester mom pants dont fit. And you might want to clean of the chocolate and wine stains on your blouse before you go around trying to be bitchy to anyone..or and about your mothering skills......"  Bitchy Regina getting outbitched by her reflection would make this about the craptastic campiest moment in this shows history!.

 

I agree, psychotic Ice Queen is fun. lets keep her so she can blithely glide past Rumpel and Regina and dismiss them as if they don't exist.

[Shanna Marie]

But I find Hook's attitud weird. I take this cheerful Hook over last season brooding Hook any day. But his attitude this last two episodes really contradicts how he was acting at the end of episode 4 and that bothers me.

He might be putting up a cheerful front so that Emma doesn't notice that anything's wrong, since she clearly has enough to deal with. Or he may be somewhat relieved that Rumple hasn't called in any orders in the last few days.

 

I think Hook is just desperately trying to assure himself that he is not related to the crazy. God knows, I'd be trying to do the same. Bonus points since he can also gain assurance that he is not related to his girlfriend.

Fortunately, him being about 200 years older than everyone else means that even if he is related -- say, if Charming's alcoholic father turned out to be a descendant of the second family Hook's father started after abandoning little Killian -- the connection would be so distant that it wouldn't really count as them being related anymore. But you know, they've brought up that age thing almost as many times as they've dropped anvils about Hook's imminent demise, so maybe they are setting up a relationship revelation. I think it would be hilarious if it turned out he was related to Belle, just because she's been so judgey about him (even before he shot her).

 

And I don't know if it's just me because I read that this is episode is Belle's Jolly Roger and I get what they're saying that, but I don't see it.

I brought up that comparison, and it's because the two episodes have essentially the same plots -- in the flashback, the main flashback character obtains something precious that was lost and then almost immediately has to choose between retaining the precious lost thing or giving it up to save someone's life, and the character makes the wrong choice. Then in the present, this decision ties to what's going on, leaving the character wracked with guilt and trying to make amends.

 

Maybe Belle heard that Anna is alive because of Bo Peep's shepherd's crook heartbeat thing?

I thought they actually implied that. Or else my brain is filling in little details for me for the sake of my sanity.

[InsertWordHere]

But you know, they've brought up that age thing almost as many times as they've dropped anvils about Hook's imminent demise, so maybe they are setting up a relationship revelation. I think it would be hilarious if it turned out he was related to Belle, just because she's been so judgey about him (even before he shot her).

I still think he'd be the most likely candidate for an Arendelle relation, but so far he hasn't seemed to show any recognition when that land is being discussed. I thought he has a strange look on his face when looking over the lineage book, but since he mentioned Emma's resemblance to Helga a short while after, I think the look was just because he had noticed the picture.

[YaddaYadda]

I thought he has a strange look on his face when looking over the lineage book, but since he mentioned Emma's resemblance to Helga a short while after, I think the look was just because he had noticed the picture.

 

I thought for sure there was something as well there until he pointed out that Emma looked like a Hufflepuff and then I was disappointed.  The whole scene was just bizarre.

 

I thought they actually implied that. Or else my brain is filling in little details for me for the sake of my sanity.

No, Belle actually said that they knew Anna was alive because they heard her heart beat.  Clearly, the walls have been closing in on her for a while regarding that secret.  I wonder how Rumple feels.  Never mind, he doesn't give a shit about any of this.

[iMonrey]

 

Oaken was more than perfect:   he was dead-on. The look, the voice, everything. But I really wish that the show had had the guts to show his family. I love that the Disney movie put that little scene in (and took a lot of personal glee watching people foam at the mouth about it) so Oaken's husband and kids strolling in (or out of the sauna) would have made it truly epic.

 

It was perfect all right, but one of the things that bugs me about the whole Frozen thing is that it's a literal re-creation of the Disney film, whereas every other fairy tale represented on this show is some bastardized form of the DIsney version with all kinds of convoluted twists and changes. I don't know why they have such a hands-off approach to changing anything about Frozen while all the other stories are fair game.

 

I've never understood why they changed Belle's backstory either - all things relative, that's one of the more recent Disney pictures too, and in the Disney film her parents were not royalty, her father was a common laborer. The fact that she lived a provincial life in a provincial town was the basis for the plot. So it's like this isn't even the same Belle, it's a different character with the same name. 

 

Also, if they're going to use Frozen as their backdrop this season, they should have Olaf. I know the CGI would probably be disappointing, but he was the best thing about that movie.

[kingshearte]

Having still not seen Frozen, I actually didn't care for Oaken at all. I had no idea who he was, so he just came across as some weird, random Scandinavian caricature with no relation to anything. It's only from reading here that I know his name or that he's somewhat relevant to the Frozen story. 

 

I agree that the way they hold Frozen as basically sacred, as opposed to their treatment of all the other Disney fairy tales, is a bit weird, but I suspect it has something to do with it being a new story. Most of the other stories are so ingrained in our culture that you can mess with them but people will still be able to make the connections to the stories they know. While Frozen does loom large at the moment, there are still one or two of us who are not intimately familiar with it, and only time will tell if it will ultimately become the kind of classic that can be effectively referenced via subtle allusion or turned on its head in a way that audiences will know that's what's happening.

[stealinghome]

I don't know why they have such a hands-off approach to changing anything about Frozen while all the other stories are fair game.

Disney. Disney is keeping an extremely close eye on the scripts.

[Amerilla]

I've never understood why they changed Belle's backstory either - all things relative, that's one of the more recent Disney pictures too, and in the Disney film her parents were not royalty, her father was a common laborer. The fact that she lived a provincial life in a provincial town was the basis for the plot. So it's like this isn't even the same Belle, it's a different character with the same name.

 

Ah! The exciting world of fairy tale history - aka, "Amerilla has too much time on her hands for reading."

 

Disney's Belle is the most familiar to modern audiences (other than me, since I'm apparently one of the few people out there who has never seen it), but there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of "Beauty and Beast" tales going back to ancient Greece, and Beauty's backstory has generally been molded to whatever fits the overall story.

 

Once's Belle is very much in line with the Beauties of the 1700s, when it often used as parable about politcally arranged marriages, and Beauty would generally be a noblewoman or the daughter of a merchant. That fit the story they were telling in "Skin Deep," where Rumpel took her as a spoil of war - and the daughter of a nobleman or a royal has a lot more cachet than the daughter of laborer. It's a bigger display of power, which is the Dark One's primary goal. Plus, being high-born also means that Belle would have been completely out of spinner!Rumpel's league, with the twist being that it's that man, the one under the Dark One's shell, that Belle falls in love with and tries to free.

 

That's one of the things I think they did really well in S1: kept a lot of the Disney iconography, so the audience would recognize who were looking at, but drew from a deeper well of fairy tale literature than just the Disney versions, and allowed to create new character out of familiar ones.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Once's Belle is very much in line with the Beauties of the 1700s, when it often used as parable about politcally arranged marriages, and Beauty would generally be a noblewoman or the daughter of a merchant.

This fits in Belle's taste for adventure, too. From what we saw in this episode, it was apparent she doesn't get to go out much because of all the dangers concerning the ogres. Some aristocrats can't exactly do anything heroic or risky very often. I still don't quite understand what her father's role or rank is.

 

 

I thought she did say she was requesting her own file and that it would take a couple weeks. But if you mean a file on the DQ herself, I'm not sure Emma would have known what to search for.

 

Didn't DQ give her all the files in the ice cream truck?

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[AV8n]

How in the world is Henry the only person in Storybrooke that knew about the ice cream truck?  Surely they've heard it blaring its music as it went up and down Main Street!

Didn't realize Oaken was a "Friend of Dorothy".  He was trying really hard to get Belle and Anna to hop in the sauna, which had a kinda pervy vibe to me.  I guess he really was just being hospitable.

The rock trolls are dicks.  First they take your memories without your permission.  Then, to get them back, you have to return to the scene of the crime and drink a warm cup of rock tea.  I know magic comes with a price, but I'd kick in an extra $3.50 to skip all the hoopla and just get my memories back.

[RadioGirl27]

He might be putting up a cheerful front so that Emma doesn't notice that anything's wrong, since she clearly has enough to deal with. Or he may be somewhat relieved that Rumple hasn't called in any orders in the last few days.

Yeah, he's probably putting a face for Emma. But I think his attitude in the last two episodes is way to disconnected from his attitude at the end of "The Apprentice". And, really, they just need a shot of him looking sad or thoughtful, and then, when Emma appears or looks at him, changing his face to a happy one, to show that he has this inner struggle and this sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

[kingshearte]

Didn't realize Oaken was a "Friend of Dorothy".  He was trying really hard to get Belle and Anna to hop in the sauna, which had a kinda pervy vibe to me.  I guess he really was just being hospitable.

Disclaimer: I've only met a few Finnish people. But those Finnish people made it fairly clear that Finland is basically obsessed with saunas. As a result, I just assumed Oaken was Finnish.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, he's probably putting a face for Emma. But I think his attitude in the last two episodes is way to disconnected from his attitude at the end of "The Apprentice". And, really, they just need a shot of him looking sad or thoughtful, and then, when Emma appears or looks at him, changing his face to a happy one, to show that he has this inner struggle and this sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

But I don't think we've seen him away from Emma since "The Apprentice." We haven't seen him have any private moments or really any moments where Emma wasn't looking at him when there wasn't something else pretty distracting going on. I'm okay with no open sulking, and since Rumple hasn't been pressing the point, I guess he's not too stressed yet. He did look rather tense when they were all in the room watching the video together (Rumple was there, right?).

[KingOfHearts]

 

How in the world is Henry the only person in Storybrooke that knew about the ice cream truck?  Surely they've heard it blaring its music as it went up and down Main Street!

 

"I'm a kid, I know these things" was just no. He's 12, not 5. (And the actor is 14, so it came out even creepier.) I wish they'd write him his age instead of S1 Henry.

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

If they'd left out the "I'm a kid" part, it still could have worked. I'm very far from a kid and I still notice ice cream trucks (because I have a love for ice cream that's bordering on addiction).

[angelwoody]

"I'm a kid, I know these things" was just no. He's 12, not 5. (And the actor is 14, so it came out even creepier.) I wish they'd write him his age instead of S1 Henry.

Yes.  They really need to make his show age match his real age.  The difference between how he looks and the lines he's give are extremely distracting.  They make him seem immature and weird, which I don't think is what they're going for.  Sullen, video game obsessed, memory-less, just-back-from-NYC Henry was more on target for the age he appears. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

If they'd left out the "I'm a kid" part, it still could have worked. I'm very far from a kid and I still notice ice cream trucks (because I have a love for ice cream that's bordering on addiction).

If he said something like, "Hey, I love ice cream" instead then I'd be fine with it. Pair the kid line with his relationship advice and mom break-up basket, and you can see how confused the guy has been this season. He needs to start sessions with the cricket again, and stop hanging out with exalting his psycho mom all the time.

 

 

Sullen, video game obsessed, memory-less, just-back-from-NYC Henry was more on target for the age he appears.

I can tolerate that Henry, as long as he stops stealing his mom's car.

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

"I'm a kid, I know these things" was just no. He's 12, not 5. (And the actor is 14, so it came out even creepier.) I wish they'd write him his age instead of S1 Henry.

I didn't find it creepy, but from my experience with actual 12 year olds, they don't constantly refer to themselves as kids. They usually want to be treated as older than they are, not younger.

[HoodlumSheep]

The few moments with Hook and Emma were really cute. But I find Hook's attitud weird. I take this cheerful Hook over last season brooding Hook any day. But his attitude this last two episodes really contradicts how he was acting at the end of episode 4 and that bothers me.

I find it a little strange too, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as it probably should. I think it's because the Snow Queen is presented as the immediate threat, and it involves Emma. Killy really should be telling Emma about the hat, but is instead choosing to focus on the immediate threat. Which sounds weird, because you'd think a magic soul-sucking hat would be considered a big threat.

Rumple is just doing his typical Rumple shenanigans, so why worry? Nothing could possibly go wrong...

[KingOfHearts]

 

The few moments with Hook and Emma were really cute. But I find Hook's attitud weird. I take this cheerful Hook over last season brooding Hook any day. But his attitude this last two episodes really contradicts how he was acting at the end of episode 4 and that bothers me.

It comes off as if he's trying too hard to hide what's going on. He may not be doing that, but that's what it seems like. It bothers me to see CS walking around as happy boyfriend/girlfriend when I know in the back of my mind that something not-so-cute is going to go down soon.

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Just say no to Emo!Hook. I don't care if it seems off, I hated his emo-ness after "The Jolly Roger". I applaud him not dumping his problems on Emma at the moment. I understand that he totally needs to and it's going to have to come out at a bad time - like when Rumpel pulls out the hat and plans to use it on Emma/Elsa/Someone Else - but Emma is an emotional mess and hanging by a string. Hook seems to be the only person who is aware of that and he does not want to push her over the edge if he can help it. Beyond his own personal interests, he is the one person who Emma will really open up to and lean on, so if she's pissed at him, she'll lose some emotional support she desperately needs.

[YaddaYadda]

Well, they've already established those parallels between Emma and Hook and what they're separately going through.  Hook in The Apprentice and Emma in the preview.  Doing crazy things because you're worried you might hurt someone you love...so yeah, Hook is being all sorts of shady about the secret he's keeping, but I don't think there's anything wrong with him focusing his energies on what's going on with Emma especially since he probably perceives DQ as the immediate threat to Emma right now.  I don't think he imagines for a second that Rumple would suck Emma into the hat, but he might think of the hat as a way to get rid of the threat.  Maybe that's the whole reason he knows about the hat in the first place.

 

And it's not because I'm dying to see more Belle scenes, but she knows about the hat, she just doesn't know that Rumple has it, but Hook does...maybe there's something there.

[Mari]

And it's not because I'm dying to see more Belle scenes, but she knows about the hat, she just doesn't know that Rumple has it, but Hook does...maybe there's something there.

I can see Belle easily sharing information if she didn't know Rumple had it, but can't decide if she'd share information quickly if she finds out about the hat first; she might see it as a betrayal of Rumple.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mari

[Camera One]

Rumple is lucky she didn't see the hat box the first time she went through that house.  Nor the second time.  

[shapeshifter]

Just watched (had to work Sunday night) and am clearly too late to the table.

I've never liked Belle and so have mentally fast forwarded her scenes, so I just now finally realized that her super power is denial--it's not just blinders as far as Rumpel is concerned, she's that way all the time.

Edited November 5, 2014 by shapeshifter

[ParadoxLost]

Its awfully convenient that Snow Queen left out the hat in plain sight when she clearly planned to use it as leverage against Rumpel and then Belle/Rumpel just happened to decide to use some random house for their honeymoon because no one was home at the time.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Its awfully convenient that Snow Queen left out the hat in plain sight when she clearly planned to use it as leverage against Rumpel and then Belle/Rumpel just happened to decide to use some random house for their honeymoon because no one was home at the time.

It's possible she lost it between this episode's fairyback and Rumpel and Belle finding the house. I don't think that house was hers.

[ParadoxLost]

It's possible she lost it between this episode's fairyback and Rumpel and Belle finding the house. I don't think that house was hers.

 

I don't think so.  At the beginning of the episode she was taunting Rumpel that she had something Rumpel wanted.  At the end, Rumpel revealed that she did not that he had the hat.  I think its more likely that the house is Snow Queen's than some random new player is in the mix and stole the hat without Snow Queen realizing sometime between coming to Storybrooke and Belle finding the house.

 

Honestly, I don't think they thought about it that much.  The house was introduced just to have the Beauty and the Beast dance.  If not, Rumpel would have found it somewhere that was more directly tied to Snow Queen.

[Camera One]

I had the same impression as HeimrArnadalr and that the Snow Queen lost the box at some point.  I thought she was taunting Rumple since she assumed that Rumple didn't have it either.  I am assuming a future flashback will reveal what happened to the box, how it ended up in that house, along with the "shocking" owner of the house.  If the Snow Queen thought she had the Box and then lost it, I think they would have shown her realizing it, and they would have shown her anger.  But who knows... it could very well be bad writing too.

[KAOS Agent]

I think if the Snow Queen had had the box, she wouldn't have left it sitting on a table in an empty mansion. It would have been hidden in her Fortress of Solitude. The house and its owner will definitely come into it. The bonus with the house is that it offers a large new set for them, but one that's still in Storybrooke.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The house and its owner will definitely come into it.

It could still be that it's the Sorcerer's house, even if DQ or someone else got the hat, since it's his possession in the firstplace. That doesn't explain why it came with the 2nd curse though.

Edited November 5, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dianthus]

Aren't we thinking the ship in the bottle is the Jolly? Aren't we supposed to find out more about the trade? Maybe there was more to the deal than Hook let on? I'd like to think so. It would make more sense (and make him/his plot thread seem less stupid) if he's in cahoots with the Sorcerer somehow. IDK. Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here.

[InsertWordHere]

I thought for sure there was something as well there until he pointed out that Emma looked like a Hufflepuff and then I was disappointed.

It's because Emma is a particularly good finder, like her daddy.

 

As much as I would like there to be something to Hook's look, I feel like the show would have telegraphed it more. They aren't usually subtle about these things. Which means there has to be some sort of connection between Emma and her lookalike. Since they've pointed it out in the text, which they didn't bother to do with her actual lookalike Glinda (why didn't DQ try to find her? It would have been easier, she's a blonde with magic and seemed to like adopting shady sisters), it can't just be a coincidence.

[Camera One]

 Since they've pointed it out in the text, which they didn't bother to do with her actual lookalike Glinda (why didn't DQ try to find her? It would have been easier, she's a blonde with magic and seemed to like adopting shady sisters), it can't just be a coincidence.

 

All that cleavage can't fit into the Fortress of Solitude.  I would totally laugh if in a few weeks, the Snow Queen reveals she got a pendant from Glinda too.  

[shapeshifter]

...The house and its owner will definitely come into it.....

Fee Fi Fo Fum, I think I smell the three bears!

When Emma saw that she resembled Glinda or Gilda or whoever, and then dramatically concluded that DQ was going to kill everyone except the little family of herself and two "sisters" that she was creating, I thought for a moment that I had accidentally switched to the channel that airs reruns of Criminal Minds.

[dr pepper]

Is Emma a reincarnation of Helga? I don't get it.

 

 

Hook said it: everyone's related. Also, time moves at different rates between storylines. Helga went to the Enchanted Forest, lost her powers, bercame the target of Bo Peep's exortion gang, aged, let Rumple broker one of her twins to the king as part of a deal, later had to give up the other one as well. That son became Charming, and had a daughter with Snow, who grew up to look like her grandmother. Simple!

[FurryFury]

Re: the hat... I wonder if the Sorcerer actually took back the hat from DQ and then left it in that empty house as an intentional bait for Rumple.

 

Also, did anyone else had the impression from this ep that Rumple could have decided to take Belle as the price for saving the kingdom because he wanted to have a convenient goody-two-shoes in case the hat turns up again?

[myril]

Hook said it: everyone's related. Also, time moves at different rates between storylines. Helga went to the Enchanted Forest, lost her powers, bercame the target of Bo Peep's exortion gang, aged, let Rumple broker one of her twins to the king as part of a deal, later had to give up the other one as well. That son became Charming, and had a daughter with Snow, who grew up to look like her grandmother. Simple!

 

That would be convenient crap IMO. The lack of world building on this show is nuts, and it's like hiding dynamite with acid fuses all over the place, it will blow up sooner or later. Sorry, not against you. The writers might even come up with something like that, but so far time didn't move in different ways between Arendelle and the Enchanted Forest, we only know that time seemed to pass differently in Neverland. 

[iMonrey]

 

Disclaimer: I've only met a few Finnish people. But those Finnish people made it fairly clear that Finland is basically obsessed with saunas. As a result, I just assumed Oaken was Finnish.

 

Sauna is popular throughout Scandinavia, not just Finland. I have seen Frozen but I never saw any references to Oaken being gay. Whatever people are referring to, I must have missed it. I know there was a shot of his family sitting in the sauna but I honestly don't know how that could have been any indication of his sexual orientation. Family can mean brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, you name it. Just because there was some guy in there doesn't mean he's gay and I seriously doubt Disney was going for that anyway.

 

 

But I find Hook's attitud weird. I take this cheerful Hook over last season brooding Hook any day. But his attitude this last two episodes really contradicts how he was acting at the end of episode 4 and that bothers me.

 

Like I said (and I know I harp on this), the writers don't put a lot of effort into the "present day" story. I'm sure they'll circle back to Hook's deal with Rumpel eventually, but you can tell each week when the writers sit down to plot the next episode their first order of business is to decide what their flashback story is going to be and which character it will focus on, and which other characters they can tie into it. This is their priority, it's the show's gimmick. Whatever's going on in the present day revolves around the flashback, not the other way around. And since neither Hook nor Rumpel (directly) were involved in FlashBack of the Week, there wasn't a lot of effort put into their characterizations beyond the usual "Rumpel is lying/wheeling/dealing" and Hook is trying to get into Emma's pants.

 

Plus, there's a rather obvious attempt to string the audience along for as long as possible when it comes to Hook and Emma because they keep throwing obstacle after obstacle in their way. I think they enjoy the playful banter the two share whenever they're on their latest adventure together but frankly they wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do with them if they ever become a real couple.

[InsertWordHere]

That would be convenient crap IMO. The lack of world building on this show is nuts, and it's like hiding dynamite with acid fuses all over the place, it will blow up sooner or later. Sorry, not against you. The writers might even come up with something like that, but so far time didn't move in different ways between Arendelle and the Enchanted Forest, we only know that time seemed to pass differently in Neverland. 

I don't necessarily disagree, but time would not need to move in different ways for Helga to become Ruth or the mother of anyone in Snow and Charming's generation. Anna and Elsa, the daughters of the youngest sister, are around the same age as Snow and Charming. DQ, Helga, Gerda all belong to the parents generation with Cora, Eva, Leopold, Henry, George, and Ruth. It would be a straight timeline just with a character having a previously unknown identity. Convenient yes, but not unheard of in fairytales. A princess living as a peasant is totally within the realm of possibility, especially if it happens to be the mother of two peasants who became princes.

[YaddaYadda]

From DQ's reaction about Helga, I think she accidentally killed her.  There's 3 daughters and you erase the existence of 2 of them?  I know DQ has a lot of rats running around in her head and she's likely full on cray cray, but her reaction to her sister seemed genuine.  That's probably where the whole they're scared of us because we're different, they think we're monsters mantra comes from.

Edited November 5, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

I think they enjoy the playful banter [Hook and Emma] share whenever they're on their latest adventure together but frankly they wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do with them if they ever become a real couple.

 

Responding in the relationships thread...

[stealinghome]

Like I said (and I know I harp on this), the writers don't put a lot of effort into the "present day" story. I'm sure they'll circle back to Hook's deal with Rumpel eventually, but you can tell each week when the writers sit down to plot the next episode their first order of business is to decide what their flashback story is going to be and which character it will focus on, and which other characters they can tie into it. This is their priority, it's the show's gimmick. Whatever's going on in the present day revolves around the flashback, not the other way around. And since neither Hook nor Rumpel (directly) were involved in FlashBack of the Week, there wasn't a lot of effort put into their characterizations beyond the usual "Rumpel is lying/wheeling/dealing" and Hook is trying to get into Emma's pants.

It's funny you say this, because I actually feel like it's the exact opposite. I think what you said was true in S1, particularly in the middle of the season (like 1x08-1x16 or so). But since then, I've very much thought the writers have focused most of their attention on the present-day stuff and have really half-assed/had a hard time with the fairybacks. I mean, just look at all the missed opportunities in the Missing Year fairyback. Frozen is changing this somewhat, as they've finally returned to having the fairybacks tell a unified story (which helps immensely), but still seems clear to me that they're writing the present-day stuff first and having to come up with fairyback stuff to match it--hence Anna meeting literally everyone in the Enchanted Forest on a whirlwind tour--and not vice versa.

[jhlipton]

Elsa, Emma, Anna… Really show?  This is a cruel thing to do to a sleep-deprived person who has trouble with names anyway.

Gerda and Helga, too! And the Three Sister's mom is Sonja [grin]

If A&E had even a glimmer of self-awareness, I'd think Belle's apology to Rumple was meant to mirror Emma's apology to Regina last week, Fortunately, I know better. At least, Rumple is aware that he should be apologizing to her, but he just can't.

The family tree is funny. I hadn't looked at the "magic runes" before, but they're really quite funny. Not translations but transliterations, so you get "Her Majesty Queen Sonya" spelled out in Futhark (Or Futhork -- I always get them confused) letters. This would by like referring to King Nicholas of Russia!

[darkestboy]

Meh, not a bad episode but hardly an exciting one either. I don't think Belle has had a strong episode since her debut during mid Season 1.

The connection with Anna was fine, I suppose and I did like that she did admit to Elsa and Gold about it I suppose.

I really don't want a team up with Gold and Ingrid to be honest. Personally I'd rather she took the hat and told him to go away to be honest.

Ingrid wants Emma and Elsa as her family is kind of interesting. I don't think Ingrid needed much to want to get rid of Anna to be honest.

Good snarky moments from Regina in this one too, 7/10

[Shanna Marie]

Two things that struck me when I was rewatching:

 

When Belle and her mother were hiding under the table in the library, instead of both of these adult women knowing to remain silent in order to stay hidden (haven't they said that ogres are practically blind and find things by sound?), the mother makes noise to remind Belle to be quiet and reassure her that they'll be okay. It's something you might understand if the daughter were a small child too little to really understand, but Belle is an adult, since this seems to happen not long before they turn to Rumple. And yet her mother has to remind her to be quiet while they're being hunted by ogres (after they hung back instead of escaping because they wanted to grab more books. I love books, but they're hard to read when you're dead).

 

Belle talks about not remembering anything that happened after she blacked out, and that's what she's so upset about and goes off on her quest to meet with the rock trolls. Yep, she's off on a mission to get back the memories of what happened after she blacked out. Wouldn't that just be, well, blackness? Why would she expect to remember things that happened while she was unconscious? She might want to know, but why would she expect to remember?

 

In short: Belle might possibly be too stupid to live.

[Camera One]

The writing is too stupid to live.  It's those types of ridiculous moments that completely took me out of the story.  No one being hunted by an ogre would have a conversation about being quiet.  The entire mission to the Rock Trolls was a contrived journey to meet Anna and see her fall off a cliff.

[Shanna Marie]

The writing is too stupid to live.

In this case, it's just plain sloppy. Do they have no quality control, no copyeditor to flag stuff like this? Did no one, from the initial writer in the first draft through all the rest of the process up to the point it went on the air, notice that Belle was trying to remember what happened after she blacked out? It would have helped if they'd just changed "after" to "before," where Belle was drawing a blank on what was happening before she blacked out -- like those concussion cases where someone wakes up and the whole day leading up to the injury is gone.

 

And did no one ask "Why are we acting like Belle is two here? Wouldn't two grown women know to stay quiet?" It's not like that would have made it totally unbelievable that they were still attacked by the ogres, but it would have made the characters look less like idiots.

 

This is not writing to a professional standard, on a very basic level that's not even getting into characterization and plotting. Master storytellers, my ass.

[Camera One]

Not to mention they must have known the Ogres were around, and Belle's mother decided to take that time to pack the books.  I know they love reading but seriously, that is just too much.