S07.E08: The Separation Of Crows

[leisawoo]

LMAO. Yes, indeed. So, can we do a poll on Juice's action? I think he might tell 'em about Gemma. She was going to kill him. But that leaves the little problem of Roosevelt. Juice did dispose of the weapons. Could he get away with claiming Gemma killed Roosevelt as well?

On a side note, would not Gemma be THE.WORST. defense lawyer's client ever? I can imagine. "Please stop threatening everyone in the courtroom. Stop shrieking. For the love of God, woman, try to appear a little more human. We cannot claim it was an accident. Why, oh why, won't you wear something age appropriate? And lots and lots of-"DONT YOU THINK I NEEDED TO KNOW THAT? I work for YOU. You HAVE to be honest with me." Topped off with, "I quit. Not only representing you; I quit practicing or having anything to do with law. You are JUST the worst kind of person, Gemma. Satan couldn't plead your case and win. Also, he said you're a horrible, horrible woman."

[missy jo]

Thanks La Tortuga for your explanation of the Sons' "groupthink" process, and daughtersofanarchy, I totally agree with you about the disappointing arc of the show. I have no faith in Sutter giving the viewers any satisfaction at this point.

 

I laughed so hard through the whole beginning montage. It played out like a Sons of Anarchy parody sketch. Here's Jax - brooding! on the roof! at sunset! in the whitest sneakers ever!

 

Then Chibs joins him so they can revel in their epic man love and be co-dependent some more. Jax whines, "Marks is smarter than me," and viewers around the country yell, "Indeed!" Chibs says, "We need our leader now," and I yell, "Too bad, because Clay's already dead!"

 

Finally the montage ends with Jax - staring! into the distance! and ... jaw clench! and ... nostril flare! and ... scene!

[Puddy]

I just don't see Juice giving up Gemma.  I am thinking Gemma will be outed by a very young, pint sized club member.  When Abel rats granny out, it will happen when granny is not around to smooth it over or slap her hand over his mouth.

 

Gemma will than go all "Tara" on Juice, once again thinking the wrong person ratted her out.  It is always all about Gemma.  Juice will realize that the club was only using him and he will be a very sad lone wolf again and he won't care that Gemma kills him.

 

If I acted half as crazy, paranoid and self-absorbed as Gemma...Jeezus.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Puddy

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Jax should look at the bright side: by the time Marks is done with Bobby, he'll be small enough that Jax can just stuff him into a backpack and carry him around everywhere to ask for advice. Kind of like the world's most organic smartphone.

And with all the screentime Sutter's giving to Abel of the Corn, methinks at least one close family member (hopefully not Thomas) will die by his hand.

[shanndee]

Thanks La Tortuga for your explanation of the Sons' "groupthink" process, and daughtersofanarchy, I totally agree with you about the disappointing arc of the show. I have no faith in Sutter giving the viewers any satisfaction at this point.

 

I laughed so hard through the whole beginning montage. It played out like a Sons of Anarchy parody sketch. Here's Jax - brooding! on the roof! at sunset! in the whitest sneakers ever!

 

Then Chibs joins him so they can revel in their epic man love and be co-dependent some more. Jax whines, "Marks is smarter than me," and viewers around the country yell, "Indeed!" Chibs says, "We need our leader now," and I yell, "Too bad, because Clay's already dead!"

 

Finally the montage ends with Jax - staring! into the distance! and ... jaw clench! and ... nostril flare! and ... scene!

 

I have to quote this just because I love it so very much! I read it out to my husband and he almost spit put his Pepsi. Thank you for this!  *chuckle*

[Insomnia]

I laughed so hard through the whole beginning montage. It played out like a Sons of Anarchy parody sketch. Here's Jax - brooding! on the roof! at sunset! in the whitest sneakers ever!

 

I wonder, which do you think is the larger number: The number of dead on SoA, or the number of pairs of white sneakers Jax has gone through during the series? I mean with all the killing and everything else, and they are always so very white.

[Gachnar31]

I wonder, which do you think is the larger number: The number of dead on SoA, or the number of pairs of white sneakers Jax has gone through during the series? I mean with all the killing and everything else, and they are always so very white.

 

HAHA! But did you notice the lingering shot of the blood-spattered sneakers when they were riding away after Jax shot Jury? That's how you know shit just got serious. 

[terrymct]

I could be wrong but I thought what Jury meant was that JT knew that his bike had been tampered with but went along with the plan (hence the suicide) instead of trying to save himself. So the whole Clay and Gemma killing JT is still in play but JT knew about it and did nothing to try to save himself.

 

That's how I understood it, but I don't get how JT dying would save the club.   He basically handed it over to Clay, who JT had to know was interested in taking the club in the exact opposite direction from what JT saw as "saving" it.

And with all the screentime Sutter's giving to Abel of the Corn, methinks at least one close family member (hopefully not Thomas) will die by his hand.

 

I think instead that Abel is going to the the Little-Sociopath-Ex-Machina that brings his grandmother down.

[ChicksDigScars]

It felt like either that, or we learn that Gemma caused (actively, vs. OKing) John's accident, and Gemma will do it again to Jax to get what she wants (hence the entire series was about Gemma winning).

 

I have ZERO confidence that Sutter will give us satisfaction in regards to Gemma paying for being the cause of all this mayhem. This show is a vehicle for his wife. Period. He has no objectivity when it comes to her. Threaten a pre-school teacher with no consequence? Just another day at the office for Gemma. I've been binge watching the early seasons. I've gone through season 1-3 so far, and I have to say that I've loathed Gemma since Day One. She isn't strong. She's an ignorant, irrational bully and half the shit that the Sons have to clean up is because of her stupidity. 

 

Here's to that dead eyed little Demon Spawn ratting out his grandmother. To everyone. Soon. Make it happen. 

 

I also enjoyed the earlier seasons so much more than the later ones. The show has lost it's occasional humor. It has always been violent, but the later seasons seem to be disgustingly and gratuitously gory simply for snix and giggles. And of course, I miss Opie and some of the early crew. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[Febgirl]

Ok, so I went back and whipped through Tuesday's episode again. ( easy to do when you fast forward through commercials)

 

I think I could be persuaded to believe that Nero actually killed the birds and wrote on the wall.  He seemed super squirrelly in that scene, and in his speech to Wendy at the end.

[psychoticstate]

Abel of the Corn

 

 

This is seriously the funniest thing because that kid freaks me the hell out.   No way would a 4 year old have asked Gemma "do you?"  I think it would have been more realistic to have him answer "Like when Mommy died."  Anyway . . .

 

The scariest thing in the episode was Courtney Love's face.  Shit, if my teacher looked like that, I'd probably smack a kid with a metal lunchbox too.  Maybe Wendy needs to get the kid a soft thermal instead.

 

I did think the music this episode was awesome but otherwise . . . as others have said, a snoozefest.  Jax continues to be a moron (but with sparkling white Sneakers of Truth) and the club deserves to go down if they continue to follow him blindly.

 

Nero needs to pack up his cardigans and GTFO of Charming.  But he won't . . . because he's so mesmerized by Gemma's Cooch of Death.

 

Juice . . . I ff'd through his roach scene because I was afraid he was going to eat the bug.

 

I generally love Annabeth Gish - - have been a fan since Mystic Pizza - - but her Sheriff is absolutely worthless. 

 

Unser is playing Scrabble . . and?

 

I am getting to where I just don't care anymore, although I will hang in until the bitter end.

[kathybgd]

This is seriously the funniest thing because that kid freaks me the hell out. No way would a 4 year old have asked Gemma "do you?" I think it would have been more realistic to have him answer "Like when Mommy died." Anyway . . .

The scariest thing in the episode was Courtney Love's face. Shit, if my teacher looked like that, I'd probably smack a kid with a metal lunchbox too. Maybe Wendy needs to get the kid a soft thermal instead.

I did think the music this episode was awesome but otherwise . . . as others have said, a snoozefest. Jax continues to be a moron (but with sparkling white Sneakers of Truth) and the club deserves to go down if they continue to follow him blindly.

Nero needs to pack up his cardigans and GTFO of Charming. But he won't . . . because he's so mesmerized by Gemma's Cooch of Death.

Juice . . . I ff'd through his roach scene because I was afraid he was going to eat the bug.

I generally love Annabeth Gish - - have been a fan since Mystic Pizza - - but her Sheriff is absolutely worthless.

Unser is playing Scrabble . . and?

I am getting to where I just don't care anymore, although I will hang in until the bitter end.

OMG. too funny. Boy if I were those club members I'd of been gone so far away from Jax and his crazy momma by now! I'm so disapointed in Nero. It does look to be that Unser is connecting the dots. This SHOULD be getting good.

I did quote 'cooch of death' because that's what I was referring to about being funny. I just don't know how to quote AT ALL! I couldn't do it over at TWOP either, no matter how much instruction I got.

I was watching last night after reading the forum and as far as Abel of the corn goes, I just think he's a crappy little actor and it's coming off as creepy. (Let's hope).

Edited October 30, 2014 by kathybgd

[Mrs peel]

So if Juice names Gemma as Tara's killer, will he admit he killed Roosevelt to give his story credibility? Juice is pretty much done for, I think, so why not go to prison in a comfy Administrative Segregation cell?

Except that in real life (or at least according to MSNBC’s LockUp – Don’t judge ), it’s not that comfy.  You’re locked in a small single sell for 23 hours per day, with limited personal items.  People go crazy in those cells. 

That's how I understood it, but I don't get how JT dying would save the club.   He basically handed it over to Clay, who JT had to know was interested in taking the club in the exact opposite direction from what JT saw as "saving" it.

Wasn’t Gemma having an affair with Clay by then?  Maybe JT just got tired and decided to take the easy way out.  You know, instead of taking care of his son in CA or his daughter in Belfast.  At least we see where Jax gets his little pea brain from.

 

My problem with Jax jumping on the “Lin murdered Tara” is that, since that day, Lin’s gang has taken no direct action against the MC.  There’s no reason to kill Tara unless it’s to start something with the MC, so what else was he going to do?  I know the timeline is messed up with the season ender, but still.

 

I can only believe Marks killed the birds, mostly because like others I don’t think Abel could have written that cleanly (or high up).  Nor could the child have realized the impact of the words.  And Pope’s group has a history of attacking the families (see Tig). 

 

Jax was an idiot to think Marks would accept a deal, and Bobby paid for his loyalty with the loss of his hand (or fingers – why do some people think it was only fingers?  Surely an artery is no problem in magic Charming-world).

[Snookums]

Then Chibs joins him so they can revel in their epic man love and be co-dependent some more. Jax whines, "Marks is smarter than me," and viewers around the country yell, "Indeed!" Chibs says, "We need our leader now," and I yell, "Too bad, because Clay's already dead!"

 

 

Hah, I was yelling too!

 

"Yes, Marks is smarter than you, misbegotten child-puppet of the world's worst mother! He didn't spend his days obsessed with either running from or controlling a ragtag bunch of men who couldn't face the real word in any sane or reasoned manner and instead chose to dig their own ragtag graves with a band of "brothers" consisting of PTSD ridden fellow vets and a following of easily led sociopathic eighth grade dropouts! He doesn't spend his days doggy paddling chin deep in blood and shit, juggling endless "relationships" that aren't worth the hands that shake on them, he isn't crazed with the need for retribution for endless insults and injuries that never would have occurred but for your own blindness and rage! He hasn't gotten literally uncounted numbers of men and women MURDERED for no greater reason then following bad tips and garbage information around like a bloodhound with lead poisoning! YES, JAX. YES. He is smarter than you."

[leisawoo]

Jax was an idiot to think Marks would accept a deal, and Bobby paid for his loyalty with the loss of his hand (or fingers – why do some people think it was only fingers?  Surely an artery is no problem in magic Charming-world).

I made myself look on the re watch. The knife guy placed the blade just above the knuckle joints connecting the fingers to the hand. The sentences we type in these forums. It's like when I took a quiz on an earlier episode of the show. 2 answers to the questions that stand out were "wrapping a dead body in plastic" & and my fave, "threatened to sodomize him with a flute". lol.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

 

why do some people think it was only fingers?  Surely an artery is no problem in magic Charming-world).

Moses would not want Bobby to intentionally bleed out.  

 

A few questions for y'all:  Any chance Jax has decided to just write off the loss of Bobby and Bobby's ongoing agony?  What evidence is there that Jax can even handle such a thing?  A Barosky?  Not a doubt.  A guilt-wracked Jax????  Even if Jax gives Moses everything he demanded, would Moses return Bobby alive or dead?

[leisawoo]

I honestly think if Jax stopped trying to have HIS way and really put Bobby's well being first and just did what Marks wanted, What's left of Bobby would be returned. I forget cuz it's convoluted. The pantyhose pastor's wife and son are just leverage for Jax, right? Is Marks gonna kill them?

[Snookums]

Marks is going to kill them both to keep them silent on what they know about his embezzling from the government r.e. using the money for low cost housing to fund guns or drugs (I forget which.) Apparently the dead pantyhose preacher got the church they started mixed up financially in this somehow?

[leisawoo]

Thanks, Snookums!

So, that preview with her son running one of the sons off the road makes NO sense, sigh.

[kathybgd]

Because of all you smart viewers I know what's going on with this show, otherwise , if I didn't have this forum to read (and I read before watching). I would be totally lost on wwhats going on. I never was confused , but this season I don't have a clue on the what's or why's of what is happening. Thanks for all you alls insights, wisdom, knowledge, perseptions and humor of this show.

[WatchrTina]

 

I have ZERO confidence that Sutter will give us satisfaction in regards to Gemma paying for being the cause of all this mayhem.

I feel pretty sure that the guy who has already written a gang-rape scene for his wife and another scene where he, himself, is repeatedly sodomized/prison-raped will have no problem writing a gristly, she-had-it-coming ending for Hamlet's mom.

[Darknight]

Jury said "JT couldnt bring himself to take down the club" - - - well what if Jax could? What if Jax is the rat and he is the one destroying the club from the inside - all for Tara - I mean, she did want SAMCRO dead so that her boys could be free from it - just a theory.

I feel pretty sure that the guy who has already written a gang-rape scene for his wife and another scene where he, himself, is repeatedly sodomized/prison-raped will have no problem writing a gristly, she-had-it-coming ending for Hamlet's mom.

I actually felt really bad for Otto when he was raped

[Ohwell]

I feel nothing for Bobby losing his body parts. The sons have committed so many atrocities... they deserve everything that is coming to them. They can kill Bobby for all I care. Juice needs to go too.

Oh believe me, I don't care about Bobby's body parts either.  I was just amused that he would be stupid enough to mention his dick, just when security guy was musing about which new body part to cut off.   

[Kel Varnsen]

Originals, Clay had copies which he burned.

The letters are kind  of a stupid plot device though. Because they aren't really evidence of anything. They are just speculation from JT that Clay and Gemma wanted to kill him. 

 

Also speaking of Clay, didn't there used to be alot of speculation that he was Jax's real dad? Well Jax is acting alot like Clay lately.

 

 

Lastly if they are protecting the mom and son to use as leverage against Marks, maybe it is time to use that leverage. I mean at this point what do you have to lose?

[Madding crowd]

Jimmy Smits is such a strong actor, I can't understand why he is being used as Unser Jr. on this show. In the last few episodes, he has done almost nothing but stand around in grandpa sweaters awaiting Gemma's biding. And speaking of Unser, why is still being shoved in our faces? He is completely useless in every way and like Chuckie and now Nero, he exists only as an errand boy for Gemma.

 

I don"t know where they are going with Abel but it would have made much more sense for him to hear the word accident and say "Grandma had an accident with mommy" or something which would reflect what he heard. Kids can say smart comments but at his age he would have no way of know that Gemma is lying about it being an 'accident'. After all, he wasn't there when Gemma killed Tara, so the comment Do you know what it means? is just silly .

[Disraeli Ears]

Except that in real life (or at least according to MSNBC’s LockUp – Don’t judge ), it’s not that comfy. You’re locked in a small single sell for 23 hours per day, with limited personal items. People go crazy in those cells.

So I was actually being funny (and I won't judge - I've watched plenty of LockUp myself - I NEVER want to go to prison!). I was thinking that AdSeg would be comfy compared to the hole in the ground Juice would find himself in if he went to GenPop. I can only imagine how many people would want to kill a Son at this point (whether he is currently on the club's bad side or not)!

As far as the hypothesis that Nero did the damage at Gemma's, hadn't he been at the cabin up until he came back with Gemma to pick up Abel and go home? Unless he had one of his guys do it. I've been seeing people throwing this around on other forums because they think Nero is desperate to get Gemma away from the Sons.

I do find it odd that JT would just resign himself to his fate (if he let the accident happen). That wouldn't do much to further his desire to see the club OUT of crime. If this isn't a red herring, KS has got some serious 'splainin to do!

Edited October 31, 2014 by Disraeli Ears

[Artsda]

 

Also speaking of Clay, didn't there used to be alot of speculation that he was Jax's real dad? Well Jax is acting alot like Clay lately.

 

He's like his clone. Killing Jury and lying over the reason is very similar to Clay killing Piney.

[Ottis]

Oh believe me, I don't care about Bobby's body parts either.  I was just amused that he would be stupid enough to mention his dick, just when security guy was musing about which new body part to cut off.

 

 

Exactly. When Bobby said that, I just shook my head. Idiots, all.

[TigerLynx]

Gemma, Juice, and Unser are never going to die are they?  They will be like cock roaches after a nuclear war.

 

Nero you naïve sexy dead man walking.  How have you managed to stay alive this long?

 

Poor Bobby.

[Puddy]

Madding Crowd - I am not sure but during the "confession", didn't Gemma say both ~~ she did it and it was an accident?  The kid may know (in the Sutter World) what the difference is. 

 

Hey, it's all I have.

[Bandolero]

Don't feel sorry for Nero at all no matter what ultimately happens to him. He is not naive. He knows exactly what he has gotten himself into. Instead of putting his son's needs first... he has put himself and others first so many times. Jax has lied to him repeatedly yet he still sticks around.  Isn't he the only one that his son has? Yet he puts his life at risk all the time. He obviously likes the drama and danger.

 

At least, he finally seems to be heading in the right direction.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Bandolero

[leisawoo]

Aannnddd, Jax set up his son's mom to be killed. As kind hearted as Nero seems, he's just gonna let that slide? Ok, then.

[Boilergal]

Sadly I think the ONLY way Gemma gets killed off is with some Looooooong draaaaaaaaawn ouuuuuuuuut death scene with an abundance of over acting, crying and monologuing apologies and all that emmy type crap.  While she's on the way out she can take Jax with her, ever since the Ireland season he's been too stupid to lead an mc 

 

Then Nero, Wendy, Unser and the kids can go live happily every after on a farm. 

[NoWillToResist]

Nero, honey, don't you have a phone? And I think Charming gets mail. I'm pretty sure you could get yourself and YOUR SON the fuck out of Charming and sell your oh-so-valuable Diosa shares (nothing says profit like a whorehouse with no whores...only the ghosts of the 12 that were just murdered!) by phone and then mail out the legal documents or whatever. And also, is...is he seriously questioning why Jax and Gemma wouldn't let the boys leave after the dead birds and stabbed stuffed animal incident? Has...has he met Jax and Gemma? I'm pretty motherfucking sure that both the boys were in the clubhouse last season and were three seconds away from being blown the fuck up and THAT didn't even make them blink an eye. Seriously Nero, why are you at once the voice of reason and SO FUCKING BLIND AND DUMB????

 

My head hurt from all the anvils that fell during the scene between Gemma and the preacher's junkie wife. Christ, heavy-handed parallel, much?

 

Gemma: Do you understand what accident means?
Abel: Do you?

And with that flawless shade, Abel has become my favorite character

 

The shade was ridiculously meta but I'll take it because I laughed like a fucking loon.

 

So Abel's school can't reach either of his guardians and a teacher gets threatend  by Abel's grandma and they don't call CPS?

 

I guess these people live too far away from the Charming news, to realize that Abel's family is at the centre of every disaster known to man. There's no other reason why CPS hasn't been called to the house to investigate Abel's caretakers. Actually, that would be a fucking hilarious goose chase: CPS turns up at Jax and Tara's place...nope, nothing but cleaned up blood splatters from Tara and Roosevelt's murder (and maybe Lin's guy if they were sloppy with the plastic sheet). Ok, how about grandma's? Hm, a threat of on the wall, a stabbed stuffed animal and a bed of murdered crows. Ok, how about the father's main place of business? Nope, blown up. Ok, how about one of his other businesses? Nope, 12 dead hookers and their customers. Ok, how about his other place of business? The porn studio? Ok, but he's not here right now. And the porn stars who usually babysit Abel haven't seen Jax in a while. So, no sign of the father but this all seems like a perfectly normal environment for a child to grow up in.

 

 

So the rat is still out there right? Jury says it wasn't him, yet Jax didn't believe it and then lies and says Jury admitted it.

 

Jury: I didn't rat.

Jax: *kills Jury* he said he ratted.

Me: Oh, hello there CLAY.

 

Jax punched Jury. Jury falls, and reaches for his gun, Jax shoots him. He had to know that Jax was going to shoot him if he reached for his gun after a punch, so the comment was calculated to get exactly the reaction he wanted to. Van Gogh VP had no idea what they were talking about, in regards to the Chinese - Jury never told him. Jax looks like a power-hungry madman. And now other charters see it too.

 

I know I shouldn't laugh but I have been killing myself laughing at Jax all season. Like, "Hey Jax, this random Chinese guy killed Tara!" "No I didn't!" *BLAM*, "Hey, you put a hit out on my wife!" "No I didn't" *ass kicking* "Hey Jax, maybe Jury ratted us out!" "No I didn't!" *BLAM!* How many times this season is he going to beat up and/or kill someone who correctly proclaims their innocence? He is a one-man wrecking ball of fuck-uppery.

 

I'm glad that Chibs seemed to notice that Jax has lost contact with the concept of reality and consequences. But these guys still piss me off with their special snowflake expectations for their club. Only THEY get to sabotage other people's businesses. Only THEY get to kill others with impunity. Only THEY get to double-cross people. They are just so OUTRAGED when they get blowback for their shit that it just makes me wanna smack 'em all.

 

Honestly, the only redeeming moment for any of them was Tig firing a warning shot at the abusive step-father when he hit his step-son.

 

I think all the blather from Jury about John Teller is to foreshadow that Jax, once he realizes the path of destruction he's wrought, all because of his villainous mother, will kill himself. He has lost complete touch with who he was. He has dishonoured his initial mission, his dead wife, his children, his father, his beloved club and brothers, and himself. And he only has himself (and his mother) to blame. So I think he'll take out Gemma and then kill himself in spectacular murder-suicide, where Jax will purge the poison that has destroyed the Sons for the last two generations.

 

I want Nero, Wendy, Chuckie and the kids to get the hell outta there safely, but I just don't see it happening.

Edited December 6, 2014 by NoWillToResist