Beth: You're going to miss me when I'm gone...

[editorgrrl]

Good Lord! I suppose she rises on Easter?

You snark, but Beth fans are writing stuff like this:

http://aerishere.tumblr.com/post/104201378459/those-who-dont-wanna-keep-probably-totally

Edited to add that it's written by a 19-year-old in Hungary, hence the wonky grammar.

Beth Greene is Jesus.

She represents hope and faith, just like Jesus. Although I couldn’t see any significant parallels with their childhood, from the moment she escaped with Daryl, it’s clear as the sky.

Beth was teaching him how to have hope and faith, how to love, how to be selfless, how to believe. Just like Jesus did with his apostles.

And then Beth and Daryl… they literally had their Last Supper, just before Beth was taken away, just like Jesus was taken by the soldiers of the governor (governor… how is it so familiar? =D).]

And who is Judas? Well, that’s something that’s not so clear, but my card is on Dawn. Because at the end of the day, it was Judas who caused Jesus’ death. And he’d regret, he committed suicide, and died. We know that shooting Beth it was an accident. A terrible accident, but she didn’t really want to do it, it’s all on her face. But she did, and for that, she dies, too.

And the whole trade thing is like Jesus and Barabbas. Who gets free?

And then… let’s see who died this episode again. Beth – Jesus. Dawn – Judas. And then there’s two more Bob and O’Donnel. Just like Jesus died with two thieves next to him.

Edited December 6, 2014 by editorgrrl

[bosawks]

You snark, but Beth fans are writing stuff like this:

http://aerishere.tumblr.com/post/104201378459/those-who-dont-wanna-keep-probably-totally

Well, if that pig pen last season was any indication she was a pretty shitty carpenter.

[NoWillToResist]

You snark, but Beth fans are writing stuff like this:

http://aerishere.tumblr.com/post/104201378459/those-who-dont-wanna-keep-probably-totally

 

 

*stares in shock*

*stares some more*

 

You know, I gotta say, that is some fucking hard-core conspiracy theory/fanwank stuff right there. That person must've been a big fucking fan of LOST. Wow. I can't help but feel that, much like LOST, the fans credit TPTB with WAAY too much depth, intelligence and cunning.

 

But, if her death is just some big, elaborate fake-out or Jesus parallel, wouldn't that just make Beth's (apparent) death all the more bullshit? Because it literally wouldn't have meant a thing' it was just meant for shock value, only to pull back an ep or so later and be all "Ha! Gotcha! Your emotional pain feeds us, so we pretended she's dead, but here she is alive and well. Suckers!".

 

If it were all a big misdirect, after a HEAD SHOT, then I would feel even MORE manipulated than the usual "let's pay lots of attention to this person before we kill them off" crap that TPTB pull.

 

At least when they pulled a misdirect like that with Carol at the prison, she was PRESUMED dead. There was a grave but no body, so the possibility that she wasn't dead was still out there.

[diebartdie]

I really dont think TPTB will go this way but (spoiler tag for comic)

Carl was shot in the head and yet he still lives! Lost an eye but he's not only alive and well but learning how to be a smithy! Oh and he just killed to youngsters with a shovel.

So I guess if they really really wanted to go completely off the rails, they could in fact bring Beth back. But they wont. I dont think.

[TexasChic]

10,000 is 0.07% of 14 million.  That's assuming that each signature is unique and some people haven't signed it multiple times using different names.  

 

0.07% is a teeny tiny amount, I don't think Gimple is quaking in his boots.

Oh, I know in the grand scheme of things it's not really that much, but the petition filled up quickly, which says there is a significant following. If you were to just go by the boards here, you'd think most people were either glad she's off the show, or didn't care much one way or another. I just found it interesting (and a bit surprising) that there IS a Beth following out there. It just goes to show that you can't judge something based on your own surroundings (so to speak). In retrospect, I can see why younger women may have identified with her and felt she represented someone like themselves. I personally (middle aged woman here) would have like to have seen how she changed and adapted over the years, like Carl. Other than Judith, there's really no other kids left to show this unique sort of progression, which is kind of a shame. She wasn't one of my favorites, but I didn't dislike her. I can see why someone who did consider her a favorite would be pretty upset about this development. We all get invested in our shows, that's why we feel the need to create a place like this to discuss them!

[editorgrrl]

I personally (middle aged woman here) would have like to have seen how she changed and adapted over the years, like Carl. Other than Judith, there's really no other kids left to show this unique sort of progression, which is kind of a shame.

Tyler James Williams is 22, and Noah is in his late teens.

Edited to add that there are several teens in the spinoff.

Edited December 6, 2014 by editorgrrl

[TexasChic]

Yes, you're right, I keep forgetting Noah is supposed to be a teenager too. That's cool about the spinoff, sounds like a good idea for a different outlook.

[bunnyblue]

 

Beth was teaching him how to have hope and faith, how to love, how to be selfless, how to believe.

 

This is the kind of shippper stuff that drives me crazy. Before 4B, Daryl had already learned to have hope & faith, learned how to love his prison family, and certainly learned to be selfless. How many damn times did he risk his own life to go on runs? He was always in the groups that cleared out any new shelter. All of that was pretty damn selfless in order to provide for and protect the family he loved. He progressed from a selfish angry redneck in S1 to the team player we saw in 4A. Beth didn't teach him anything he hadn't already learned. She just didn't let him regress after the loss of the prison.

[kikismom]

Does anyone have a link to the original Andrea death? I'd love to read it.

This tells the original demise of Andrea---with pictures!Yay!     http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/04/02/the-walking-dead-finale-deleted-scene-show-alternate-death-ending/

Edited December 7, 2014 by kikismom

[GreyBunny]

'Tis only a flesh wound.  No reason why she couldn't come back!  (Just ignore the large volume of blood and brains spewing out the back of her head.)

 

[CletusMusashi]

Until proven otherwise, I think my personal canon is going to be that Beth sacrificed herself partly to kill Dawn... and other important partly to remind Rick that sacrificing people to zany ubervilains was still technically classified as a big ehtical no-no.

 

Beth never really met the Governor. She heard stories about how bad he was, but she also heard Andrea defending him. And Andrea was, to Beth, a rather admirable figure. She also saw, twice, Rick Himself thinking the Gov could be negotiated with.

 

No doubt by now she's heard the story of How Rick Almost Tried To Placate The Governor By Giving Him Michonne To Torture. She probably hasn't heard the part about how it failed because Merle, of all people, developed a stronger moral spine than Rick, but she has probably heard some version of it. All she really knew when the prison got blown up was that everybody has a job to do. No matter how worried you are about other things, no matter how little you like your assigned role, you still have a job to do. It's the Zombie Fucking Apocalypse. There ain't no temp agencies.

 

So, scan forward to the prisoner exchange. CDB have come  the rescue, and Noah was a huge help to them. Plus, he'd already helped her personally whenever he could. Yet, when Dawn insists that she will only honor the original agreement if they give him back to her, Rick doesn't really care that much. He refuses, sure. But when Noah decides to give up his gun and go back, Rick is, more than anything else, glad to be off the hook of worrying about this new character. Understandable? Yes. Good indicator that the show's hero should be the show's hero? Probably not.

 

Good answer: "Noah, wait outside.... Sorry, Dawn... You can't go back. Get it? Well, it's a Bob and Gareth joke. You had to be there. But anyway, we're leaving , and if even one of you fires a shot, we will kill and eat all of you, because that's a thing now. Okay? Bye bye now." 

 

Bad answer: "No you can't have h- oh, you're willing to surrender? Are you really important to this group's survival, like the only guy who can keep the hospital machines working or something? No? You're just some laundry guy placating a supervillain so she can continue to be obsessed with capturing menial servants? Huh. Weird. But... whatever, that's cool. It still doesn't affect the single digit number of people in the world that I actually give a shit about..." 

 

Beth's big "I get it" moment was finally understanding how seemingly intelligent competent adults kept on falling for the bullshit of a charismatic manipulative power-mad loony. The reason she dies forcing someone to shoot Dawn was because that's what she's realized Rick should have done back at the prison. If Rick had tried to kill Brillip, he may well have succeeded, but he'd probably still have died. Meanwhile, if his initial move did fail. Carl would probably have managed to Kill Brill, while Daryl shot the moron who was standing around with his head sticking out of the tank.

 

Beth was on the road with Daryl for quite a while. I think she heard a lot of "if we'd done this" scenerios.

 

Forcing a gunfight that she knows will kill Dawn, but severely doubts will kill CDB, if viewed this way, if arguably a heroic act of self sacrifice. 

 

Now, do I actually have enough faith in the writers to believe that this is what they wrote? Hell no. 

But I watched what I watched, so god damn it I am going to salvage the narrative any way that I can.

Edited December 9, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

Purely as an FYI - the Bring Beth Back petition is up over 22K signatures.

 

Like, totally wow.

 

 

 

ETA: Heck, it got three more sigs just while I was typing this post.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Nashville

[CletusMusashi]

We pretty blatantly saw her killed, permanently. What do the petitioners expect exactly?

A singing zombie that lives entirely on Peach Schnapps?

Edited December 7, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

A singing zombie that lives entirely on Peach Schnapps?

Not necessary! We'll be able to pick her out of the herd by her posture---oh wait...never mind.

[GreyBunny]

She'll be the zombie with the cast.

 

Speaking of which, she would have had better luck striking Dawn in the nose with her cast than stabbing her in the kevlar with kiddie scissors.

[weightyghost]

A week later, and I'm still struggling with understanding where all the outcry is coming from. Herschel was by far more loved all around for fans, and people accepted his death. Andrea was a beloved character from the comics, and most accepted her death as it was. Even TDog, who everyone loved, spawned the 'not TDog' hashtag all night, people moved on from. 

 

Now we have Beth, who everyone I know who watched the show didn't really care for, who all saw her death coming, has articles, petitions, crazy rants, all demanding it was unfair, sexist, too soon, too shocking. Even Hardwick made a comment about it on @Midnight this week. This is a character that very few people thought about until her episode with Daryl last season. For me, it's a bit telling that no one cared about the slew of older women who died unfairly and unjustly and before their time, but when the one young pretty blonde died, that's an outrage. Especially telling that half the people raging claimed it should have been Carol (while degrading her because she's so old and her storyline is done).

 

I know people connect to characters differently, but ultimately what upsets me is the possibility of how the show will react to all this.  I really hope that TPTB of Walking Dead don't take all this too seriously. I don't need this to be a soap opera, with people returning from the dead (back to alive, not walking-dead) nor do I need the show to start placating shippers and having love triangles and romantic undertones.

[AngelaHunter]

Anyone who thinks Beth may have thought she was going to kill or even give Dawn a really big "Owwie" needs to look at this still again:

 

A good bee sting would have done more damage than those teensy-weensy scissors. Silly, the whole thing.

 

[Constantinople]

We pretty blatantly saw her killed, permanently. What do the petitioners expect exactly?

 

Morgan runs into Beth's long lost identical twin sister, Bethany (or Bethyl or Betty) and brings her to CDB.

 

Maggie never mentioned her before because of Maggie's severe case of sister amnesia.

 

Either that or Beth and her long lost twin sister were adopted by different sets of parents.

[CletusMusashi]

Maggie wakes up: "I had a terrible dream last night. Beth was kidnapped by a bunch of perverts who were molesting her with lollipops, and I couldn't even remember her name, and for some reason she suddenly had a more advanced degree than I do, and this annoying priest kept on attracting zombies everywhere he went, and Eugene wasn't a real scientist, and Rick looked like Charlie Manson, and Bob got eaten by cannibal hipsters, and for some reason I think we all lived in a fire truck. And a lot of other stuff was different too. Thank God I'm still married to you, Abraham."

[HalcyonDays]

We pretty blatantly saw her killed, permanently. What do the petitioners expect exactly?

A singing zombie that lives entirely on Peach Schnapps?

 

Hee on the Peach Schnapps.

 

Yeah, I don't get this petition. Girl got a bullet in the head. She won't be a zombie and 99.9999% of humans don't survive their brains being blasted out of the back of their skull.

 

How can she come back though? Flashbacks. We saw a couple with Herschel this season. We'll see her again.

[Watcher0363]

We will always have the funeral home. Just like Gibbs and Jenny in Paris. Carnalcabra

[NoWillToResist]

Now we have Beth, who everyone I know who watched the show didn't really care for, who all saw her death coming, has articles, petitions, crazy rants, all demanding it was unfair, sexist, too soon, too shocking. Even Hardwick made a comment about it on @Midnight this week. This is a character that very few people thought about until her episode with Daryl last season. For me, it's a bit telling that no one cared about the slew of older women who died unfairly and unjustly and before their time, but when the one young pretty blonde died, that's an outrage. Especially telling that half the people raging claimed it should have been Carol (while degrading her because she's so old and her storyline is done).

 

I don't recall this much outrage over the deaths of two other young pretty blonde girls (Mika or Lizzie) and Mika, IMO, was far more innocent and adorable than Beth. Perhaps she was too young for people to have felt a connection to her, unlike (apparently) Beth. Or, maybe it really is mostly the shipping thing which certainly would explain why Mika wouldn't have attracted the same level of rabid grief at her loss...

Edited December 7, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[diebartdie]

A week later, and I'm still struggling with understanding where all the outcry is coming from.

OK, I know Ive answered this already but here goes again and please realize, I am only speaking for myself. I am not "mad", "sad" or even upset that Beth is dead. I WAS mad her character was made to do the stupidest thing imaginable and got her brains blown out for it. I WAS mad because Beth lost her life without even drawing blood. I WAS upset because the arc the writers had constructed collapsed in the final 5 minutes. I never was over the moon about Beth but I did like her. She wasn't my favorite (that would be Carol) and I do not "ship" (not in the traditional sense, again Ive posted many times about how I think people would possibly combine relationships). I think the petition to bring her back is silly beyond the telling of it HOWEVER, as a previous poster said, just because people on THIS forum were not giant Beth fans does not mean there were not giant Beth fans somewhere out there (obviously). Sheesh, you might meet one million people that loathed the Grateful Dead and might think they just sucked ass because of who you met but what about the 15 million OTHER people that loved them? Only speak for yourself and your feelings, you are not everyone, you do not know everyone, you are not exposed to every forum out there (unless you are the NSA of course)

 

Anyway, who cares? The horse is paste now....

{the part I highlighted is really what got to me and still bugs but Ive read so many responses here illustrating how many other idiotic deaths this show has had and...you know.....stupid show is stupid}

[Emily Thrace]

A week later, and I'm still struggling with understanding where all the outcry is coming from. Herschel was by far more loved all around for fans, and people accepted his death. Andrea was a beloved character from the comics, and most accepted her death as it was. Even TDog, who everyone loved, spawned the 'not TDog' hashtag all night, people moved on from.

Now we have Beth, who everyone I know who watched the show didn't really care for, who all saw her death coming, has articles, petitions, crazy rants, all demanding it was unfair, sexist, too soon, too shocking. Even Hardwick made a comment about it on @Midnight this week. This is a character that very few people thought about until her episode with Daryl last season. For me, it's a bit telling that no one cared about the slew of older women who died unfairly and unjustly and before their time, but when the one young pretty blonde died, that's an outrage. Especially telling that half the people raging claimed it should have been Carol (while degrading her because she's so old and her storyline is done).

I know people connect to characters differently, but ultimately what upsets me is the possibility of how the show will react to all this. I really hope that TPTB of Walking Dead don't take all this too seriously. I don't need this to be a soap opera, with people returning from the dead (back to alive, not walking-dead) nor do I need the show to start placating shippers and having love triangles and romantic undertones.

I think its less Beth is younger and more the writing for Andrea was so bad Andrea had more Haters than fans by the end. There were also various plot related reason to kill Herschel, Andrea and T-Dog . Beth is the only character killed solely to further other characters . Not only is it a big part of why its sexist but I think its part of why people are angry. Its one thing to have TPTB kill off your favourite character for the story its another to hear she essentually didn't matter and that other characters are more important. I also think there are quite a few people like myself who feel they gave the show a secound chance to do better by its female characters after what happened to Lori and Andrea and TPTB just blew it. A fairly large number of Beth fans loved Andrea too and now feel the show has fooled them twice.

As for Carol the show was throwing out the death anvils pretty hard so I wouldn't be surprised if she was supposed to die but wriggled out of it again. Besides if anybody brought that on its probably Carol fans themselves, I know I've heard more than a few reports of them being assholes and doing things like taunting Beth fans about her death.

Also I know someone upthread accused EK of lying about her version of events about how she and the cast found out about her leaving. For one her story has been consistent throughout multiple interviews and is backed up by NR version of events. So if someones lying I don't think its EK. I think thats something else are responding too it almost feels like TPTB are hiding something or that there ismore to the story. (Kirkmans reaction to EK on the talking dead was truly odd as welll) Hell if it wasn't for NR turning up at EKs gig I'd probably be thinking those two actually did hook up and TPTB killed EK off because it ended badly and they didn't want to deal with the fallout. (Which is what I predicted last year actually). Frankly that would make more sense than the explanation we did get.

[weightyghost]

 

There were also various plot related reason to kill Herschel, Andrea and T-Dog . Beth is the only character killed solely to further other characters

 

But like others have pointed out, that is pure speculation. The episode ended a minute after she died. Andrea was killed to show how off the deep end the Governor really was. Lori was killed for Rick's trip to crazytown. TDog was killed so Lori's death would be extra shocking. The focus was on Daryl after Beth died because he, along with Maggie, were really the only 2 characters that were attached to her. Much like how they focussed on Michonne for Andrea, Maggie and Beth for Hershel, Daryl for Merle. Furthering characters and furthering the plot is really the same thing, in a character driven show. 

 

diebartdie, I understand the anger completely. I get why people are mad because it was a stupid death. The whole hospital storyline was stupid and a waste of a half-season. But Beth was never a violent fighter. When push came to shove, yeah she could shoot a few walkers when running for her life, push a dude off a ledge when her life is threatened. But I don't believe she was a killer of humans in the same way Rick was so willing to. so the fact that she didn't go for the eye or the heart wasn't that surprising to me. But it's the anger that results in the threatening to boycott, petitions, blaming other actors, @replying the people involved in the show, that's what I find extreme. But I'm also probably a bit older than the people doing that, so maybe if social media was around when I was 16, I'd understand it more. 

[Bongo Fury]

... There were also various plot related reason to kill Herschel, Andrea and T-Dog .

 

... Beth is the only character killed solely to further other characters .

 

... Not only is it a big part of why its sexist but I think its part of why people are angry. Its one thing to have TPTB kill off your favourite character for the story its another to hear she essentually didn't matter and that other characters are more important. 

 

OK, I'll bite, what are the plot related reasons to kill Herschel and T-Dog? TPTB had fracked up the Andrea character so thoroughly that she HAD to die. But I saw no overwhelming reason to kill off the other two. Just like Beth, Herschel and T-Dog were killed for shock value and little else.

 

What about Amy? She died to further Andrea's descent into despair and her desire to remain at the CDC with Jackie and 'opt out'.  Milton died solely so that Andrea could die. Meryl died to further the Governor and Daryl's characters. Karvid died to further Carol's character. etc. Why is Beth's death any different from any of these? 

 

Isn't that the definition of a Red Shirt? When you attach yourself emotionally to a minor character you have to expect things like this. And to call it sexist in any way at all does a horrible disservice to the term and criminally marginalizes all those who suffer from true sexism. You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment.

[mightysparrow]

You snark, but Beth fans are writing stuff like this:

http://aerishere.tumblr.com/post/104201378459/those-who-dont-wanna-keep-probably-totally

Edited to add that it's written by a 19-year-old in Hungary, hence the wonky grammar.

 

When my mother sees something particularly outrageous, she says 'Sparrow, we are living in the last days'. I have a feeling my mother might be right. Jesus, take the wheel. And drive these lunatics over the nearest cliff.

[kikismom]

I think its less Beth is younger and more the writing for Andrea was so bad Andrea had more Haters than fans by the end. There were also various plot related reason to kill Herschel, Andrea and T-Dog . Beth is the only character killed solely to further other characters . Not only is it a big part of why its sexist but I think its part of why people are angry. Its one thing to have TPTB kill off your favourite character for the story its another to hear she essentually didn't matter and that other characters are more important. I also think there are quite a few people like myself who feel they gave the show a secound chance to do better by its female characters after what happened to Lori and Andrea and TPTB just blew it. A fairly large number of Beth fans loved Andrea too and now feel the show has fooled them twice.

As for Carol the show was throwing out the death anvils pretty hard so I wouldn't be surprised if she was supposed to die but wriggled out of it again. Besides if anybody brought that on its probably Carol fans themselves, I know I've heard more than a few reports of them being assholes and doing things like taunting Beth fans about her death.

Also I know someone upthread accused EK of lying about her version of events about how she and the cast found out about her leaving. For one her story has been consistent throughout multiple interviews and is backed up by NR version of events. So if someones lying I don't think its EK. I think thats something else are responding too it almost feels like TPTB are hiding something or that there ismore to the story. (Kirkmans reaction to EK on the talking dead was truly odd as welll) Hell if it wasn't for NR turning up at EKs gig I'd probably be thinking those two actually did hook up and TPTB killed EK off because it ended badly and they didn't want to deal with the fallout. (Which is what I predicted last year actually). Frankly that would make more sense than the explanation we did get.

Well then, the Governor was killed to further the characters of Joe and the Merletones, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Gareth, Mary, Martin, everyone else at Terminus, Father Gabriel, Noah; all characters who would not appear at all if the group didn't have to leave the prison.

Andre died to further Michonne's character, etc.etc.  Just because stuff happens to other characters whose lives change when someone dies, it doesn't mean the writer fucked up and created someone as only a device. And if it is sexist, a whole boatload of men have been killed and their deaths affect the others. Bob's death is sexist, Herschel's death is sexist, Shane's death is sexist ad infinitum.

 

Emily Kinney said she expected to die in Season 2, so...she must have wriggled out of that one and if anyone brought it on it's probably the Beth fans themselves I've heard reports of them being assholes and taunting Carol fans about her life?

 

As far as anything being backed up by Norman Reedus' version of events...well he's fun to watch but like most people in Hollywood there are a string of statements out of his mouth that aren't telling it like it is. Andrew Lincoln has been mocked by papers for pretending he didn't have anything to do with a girl he lived with for 4 years before he married someone else. It's show biz.

 

"Hell, if it wasn't for NR turning up at EK's gig I'd probably be thinking those two really did hook up and TPTB killed EK off because it ended badly and they didn't want to deal with the fallout. (Which is what I predicted last year actually.)

 

You do realize that can't be what you mean, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you misstated what you believe.

 

Because you just wrote that except for something that actually happened in real life, you would be thinking something you thought up last year. You'd be imagining something you already imagined before.

Let's say you meant something that came out wrong.

[GreyBunny]

A week later, and I'm still struggling with understanding where all the outcry is coming from. Herschel was by far more loved all around for fans, and people accepted his death. Andrea was a beloved character from the comics, and most accepted her death as it was. Even TDog, who everyone loved, spawned the 'not TDog' hashtag all night, people moved on from. 

 

Now we have Beth, who everyone I know who watched the show didn't really care for, who all saw her death coming, has articles, petitions, crazy rants, all demanding it was unfair, sexist, too soon, too shocking. Even Hardwick made a comment about it on @Midnight this week.

 

I think Beth attracted the Twilight crowd, the ones who want some (very badly written) teen romance story.  They were expecting this teenage redshirt to be their personal Mary Sue and fall in love with the middle-aged redneck with the heart of gold, and the two of them would rule some new community hand-in-hand and have lots of little Bethyl babies.  They don't have even the most basic understanding the horror genre or the zombie apocalypse sub-genre and they got angry that their proxy for their Daryl fantasies got killed off like the redshirt she always was.  

 

So now Gimple is sexist or something even though "Coda" was written by Angela Kang who also wrote their favorite Beth episode "Still."  Whatever.

 

ETA:  This appeared in another thread and I thought it was funny:  Sorry Beth, he's just not that into you!

 

Edited December 8, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Kadlin Mormont]

 Hell if it wasn't for NR turning up at EKs gig I'd probably be thinking those two actually did hook up and TPTB killed EK off because it ended badly and they didn't want to deal with the fallout. (Which is what I predicted last year actually). Frankly that would make more sense than the explanation we did get.

 

I could just as easily say that EK was a crybaby diva on set and they killed her off because they were sick of her antics and can now finally have some peace and quiet.  That would make more sense than some bullshit NR/EK hookup drama but less sense than the fact that she was a temporary character and they were planning to kill her off all along.  If they meant to keep her they would have cast a teenager to play the part, not someone who was almost 30 and would soon look too old for the part.

[RedheadZombie]

I think Beth attracted the Twilight crowd, the ones who want some (very badly written) teen romance story.  They were expecting this teenage redshirt to be their personal Mary Sue and fall in love with the middle-aged redneck with the heart of gold, and the two of them would rule some new community hand-in-hand and have lots of little Bethyl babies.  They don't have even the most basic understanding the horror genre or the zombie apocalypse sub-genre and they got angry that their proxy for their Daryl fantasies got killed off like the redshirt she always was.  

 

 

Not fifteen minutes ago I unintentionally offended my cousin.  She texted and told me that there are (supposedly) one hundred thousand signatures to bring Beth back.  A little fatigued of the topic, I went off a little bit about being tired of the assumption that those who don't like Beth are middle-aged, fat, ugly hags jealous of Beth's beauty, innocence, and fresh ovaries.  She responded a little stiffly and then I realized - oh yeah, this is the girl who used to wear a Team Edward t-shirt.  I then realized that the dearth of Bella and Edward has possibly caused her to over-identify with Beth.  This show isn't a fairy tale, there will be no happy endings.  We ended our conversation with her agreeing that between Beth and Carol, we had to choose Carol.  That's not to say I think all Beth fans think this way, but the Beth fan's I know personally do.

Edited December 8, 2014 by RedheadZombie

[AngelaHunter]

IMO, Hershel had to die because the practical concerns of a one-legged elderly man going on the run with only the clothes on his back  couldn't be overcome, unless we wanted to watch all the following episodes centered around his care. I spent way too much time as it was worrying about Judith's food, clothes and diaper rash.

 

more the writing for Andrea was so bad Andrea had more Haters than fans by the end.

 

Andrea was a mature woman who had an education and success in life. She was a lawyer (yeah I know someone has to graduate at the bottom of the class, but still...) and had to have had SOMETHING going for her, yet she was made to appear as a foolish, strident, annoying, ditzy and dumb blonde. As for the fans, well, yeah, according to them she was a "whore" as well.

[AngelaHunter]

They were expecting this teenage redshirt to be their personal Mary Sue and fall in love with the middle-aged redneck with the heart of gold, and the two of them would rule some new community hand-in-hand and have lots of little Bethyl babies.

 

Been reading fanfiction, hmmmm? Just insert some graphic sex and you've summed up the plots of most of them.;)

[Emily Thrace]

Okay for one a Red Shirt(as Trekkie the misuse of this terms bugs) is specifically a character who has no character focus or development . Beth hasn't qualified as one since 18 Miles Out. Secondary character I'll give you but eve thats a stretch given that she's had almost as much screentime Michonne has by this point. That's why I don't put her death in the same category as Amy or Jim who were redshirts.

Something to note about Women in refridgerators is that its not just the trope itself thats problematic. Its that it happens almost exclusively to women. With Beth its possible thats not what the show was trying to do I just think the shows track record with women speaks for itself . Even without Beth death the show could be easily be called sexist for its treatment of Lori and Andrea and the lack of development for female characters compared to their make counter parts.

Its not speculation that Beth died solely to further other characters. Its pretty much what Kirkman said on the Talking Dead verbatim. Literally the only other reason he even alluded to was its a ZA people die which isn't really a reason for Beth specifically to die.

Greybunny its funny you should bring up Twilight just last night I was reading a bunch of Beth fans making fun of it and how terrible it was. Those Beth fans are definitely not Twihards. I think brushing aside young girl concerns as silly and unimportant is actually a big part if the problem here. Beth gave voice to a group that does get dismissed a lot and they've decided to fight back. Hell even in this thread they been called "spoiled brats" or entitled when what they're doing is trying to right a wrong. Just because you don't agree with why they are doing it doesn't negate that Beths fans have noble intentions. Even if I didn't like Beth at all I think I woul respect these fans for having the gut s to actually take a stand.

Kikismom your right about it not coming out right in an attepmt to be clear I'll start from the beginning. About a year ago on TWOP we were discussing the possibility of EK and NR dating I said something like "I hope not if only because if it ends badly NR isn't the one who would be killed off" . A remark that seems fairly ironic now. I actually could give a rats ass who either of them are dating at this point but I did notice that NR went to EK halloween show. So I doubt that what happened in this case. I just think TPTBs explanation is lacking and EK seems rather upset for someone let go for story reasons. I can't shake the idea that someone isn't telling the whole story. I mean why does it matter how NR and AL found out why go out of your way to discredit your actress why not simply say she misspoke or was misinformed? Like I said above backstage shenanigans make more sense than what we've been told so far.

Edited December 8, 2014 by HalcyonDays
Removed comment re: campaigning.

[Iguessnot]

Did these Beth fans petition when Mika died and demand she come back? Wasn't she also a symbol of innocence and hope or was she too young for a team crush token? 

 

As for charges of sexism, all I'm hearing is that any hardship, death, sadness, etc. suffered by a female is an attack on womanhood itself. A sullying of the female divine, so to speak. Of course all hardships, deaths and attacks on males are just good storytelling I guess. I'm not just being snarky. Sure there's sexism, racism, religious bigotry, etc. However thinking that the mere elimination of the male opposite will create a utopia is a fallacy. Men are the physically stronger sex and when they are barbaric, the weak and women suffer. But being physically weaker doesn't mean anyone is all goodness and light. Our social constructs shape all of us based on how just and nurturing they are, but we are all human and the whole spectrum from smart to stupid, bravery to cowardice, evil to good is applicable to everybody. 

 

I don't believe TWD female characters to be nothing more than victims of male portrayals. And in my mind if someone can't see women as anything more than victims of every circumstances, why bother asking them to be voice of influence.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Iguessnot

[Kadlin Mormont]

Okay for one a Red Shirt(as Trekkie the misuse of this terms bugs) is specifically a character who has no character focus or development . Beth hasn't qualified as one since 18 Miles Out. Secondary character I'll give you but eve thats a stretch given that she's had almost as much screentime Michonne has by this point. That's why I don't put her death in the same category as Amy or Jim who were redshirts.

Something to note about Women in refridgerators is that its not just the trope itself thats problematic. Its that it happens almost exclusively to women. With Beth its possible thats not what the show was trying to do I just think the shows track record with women speaks for itself . Even without Beth death the show could be easily be called sexist for its treatment of Lori and Andrea and the lack of development for female characters compared to their make counter parts.

Its not speculation that Beth died solely to further other characters. Its pretty much what Kirkman said on the Talking Dead verbatim. Literally the only other reason he even alluded to was its a ZA people die which isn't really a reason for Beth specifically to die.

Greybunny its funny you should bring up Twilight just last night I was reading a bunch of Beth fans making fun of it and how terrible it was. Those Beth fans are definitely not Twihards. I think brushing aside young girl concerns as silly and unimportant is actually a big part if the problem here. Beth gave voice to a group that does get dismissed a lot and they've decided to fight back. Hell even in this thread they been called "spoiled brats" or entitled when what they're doing is trying to right a wrong. Just because you don't agree with why they are doing it doesn't negate that Beths fans have noble intentions. Even if I didn't like Beth at all I think I woul respect these fans for having the gut s to actually take a stand.

Kikismom your right about it not coming out right in an attepmt to be clear I'll start from the beginning. About a year ago on TWOP we were discussing the possibility of EK and NR dating I said something like "I hope not if only because if it ends badly NR isn't the one who would be killed off" . A remark that seems fairly ironic now. I actually could give a rats ass who either of them are dating at this point but I did notice that NR went to EK halloween show. So I doubt that what happened in this case. I just think TPTBs explanation is lacking and EK seems rather upset for someone let go for story reasons. I can't shake the idea that someone isn't telling the whole story. I mean why does it matter how NR and AL found out why go out of your way to discredit your actress why not simply say she misspoke or was misinformed? Like I said above backstage shenanigans make more sense than what we've been told so far.

 

1) "redshirt" is perfectly fitting for Beth. She was just an overglorified redshirt.

 

2) Those same Beth/Daryl romance fans who were making fun of Twilight were posting their own Beth/Daryl fantasies, fanfics, and blog posts and plot suggestions with the same kinds of poorly written treacle as Twilight.  They're Twihards in spirit.

 

3) As for the concerns of young girls, I would have loved to have seen more from Sophia, Mika, and Lizzie.  We never got to know Amy.  I would have loved to have seen more from Beth if a better actress had been cast to play her.  Emily Kinney is a weak actress and I was tired of watching her lurch through her scenes and now i'm glad she's gone.

 

4)  I'm not going to hand out cookies for people who are "standing up for something" when I think that something is stupid.  As far as I'm concerned civil rights being trampled on is an injustice, not a fictional redshirt getting killed off of a zombie apocalypse show.  I'll save my cookies for those protesting real problems in the world.       

Edited December 8, 2014 by Kadlin Mormont
removed redshirt comment

[GreyBunny]

Been reading fanfiction, hmmmm? Just insert some graphic sex and you've summed up the plots of most of them.;)

 

Hehe.  There's always the part where the girl is seriously injured or gets grievously sick and the guy sees her near death and it's then that he realizes he loves her.  Yeah, that crap is pretty predictable.

Edited December 8, 2014 by GreyBunny
removed campaign comment

[duckseason]

Did these Beth fans petition when Mika died and demand she come back? Wasn't she also a symbol of innocence and hope or was she too young for a team crush token? 

 

It's because Mika wasn't a young woman who was alone around Daryl.  Some of those people screaming "sexism!" wanted to hook up a young teenager with a man in his forties - that's a male power fantasy right there, and they wouldn't have given a shit about Beth if it wasn't for Daryl.

 

Even if I didn't like Beth at all I think I woul respect these fans for having the gut s to actually take a stand.

 

I wouldn't because some people would call what they're doing harassment.  Some of the content these "protesters" have sent to Scott Gimple and Melissa McBride and other cast and crew has been pretty disgusting.

Edited December 8, 2014 by duckseason

[NoWillToResist]

When my mother sees something particularly outrageous, she says 'Sparrow, we are living in the last days'. I have a feeling my mother might be right. Jesus, take the wheel. And drive these lunatics over the nearest cliff.

 

In all fairness to that fan, she does preface that post with comments like "probably totally false hope" and "welcome to Denial Land". We are all scrounging for things to fill the WD void in our schedules. Some are just being more creative than others. :)

 

This whole thing makes me sad though. I didn't even really care for the character and felt that her death was kind of stupid. If I had actually cared about the character, I'd be annoyed but since I didn't, it'll be easy for me to move on.

 

But for those who did care about the character and are genuinely upset by her loss, I feel that their 'grief', if you will, is being overshadowed by the extremists. And unfortunately, as in life, the moderates with reasonable thoughts and feelings often get lumped in and then dismissed with the extremists.

 

I think it's quite rare these days for a young, female character to exist without being sexualized in some way or have her story not revolve around a love interest. I didn't see romantic chemistry between her and Daryl, so Beth was an interesting exception to that. Perhaps that would have changed had she stuck around, but at least I can point to her run as an exception to the "young woman=sex/romance!" concept. I know she had a boyfriend in the prison but it was basically a throwaway line and she took his death very much in stride. I found that very intriguing about her. You'd think a sheltered farm girl would form very strong attachments yet she was all "yeah, whatever". Heh.

Edited December 8, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Morrigan2575]

But for those who did care about the character and are genuinely upset by her loss, I feel that their 'grief', if you will, is being overshadowed by the extremists. And unfortunately, as in life, the moderates with reasonable thoughts and feelings often get lumped in and dismissed with the extremists.

 

That's true, I have friends in another fandom that loved Beth and were Bethyl shippers and were very sad over her death but that's all they did, they expressed sorrow, one said she wasn't spoiled but had a gut feeling that Beth was going to die.

 

I get being sad or upset over a characters death.  I loved Andrea (Magic Unicorn, I know) and even though I was really pissed with her in S3 (mostly after she failed to kill the Gov) I was hopeful that she'd reunite with the Prison Gang in S4 and we'd see this great Andrea/Michonne friendship and we'd explore her reaction to Shane's fate, the new Rick and the new Carol and trying to fit into this group and earn their trust.  However, I didn't get that, I was really upset when they killed Andrea and I was extremely pissed off that they killed Andrea but let the Governor live!

 

I was angry and bitter and wasn't planning on watching S4 but after the summer I calmed down and decided to give S4 a shot.  However, I refused to watch the Gov episodes and I'm not as attached to the show as I once was.  Up to S3 I watched every episode, now I watch if something interests me, if an episode focuses on a character I don't like I skip it or it's background noise.  However, that's all I've done, I never tried to start a campaign to have Andrea or even Shane (yep, loved that crazy bastard as well) brought back.

 

I think getting upset and protesting a character death on The Walking Dead or (back in the day) BattleStar Galactica is kind of ridiculous, you know there isn't a happy ending for anyone on these shows (well except Helo/Athena/Hera).  The very nature of the horror/zombie genre is that everyone dies (eventually) there is no bright future or HEA.  That's just the nature of this show, people die, we've all lost characters we've loved or identified with or just found interesting.  If Beth was the only character in 5 seasons that was killed, yeah I can understand the outrage but she's not, there were plenty killed before her and there will be plenty after her.  

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Timetoread]

I'm a bit shocked that there is an uproar over Beth's death, but I understand it as simply: she was a character that younger people, particularly caucasian females, could identify with.  This show skews 30+ in it's casting and perspective - even the character Carl is represented as "the child" and we perhaps empathize more with Rick having to raise a kid in this world than with Carl having to BE a kid in this world.   I get that there may be a faction of viewers who felt like they lost their only empathetic connection to this show.  However I don't agree that this is an affront to age, sex, etc. or a revenge scenario.

 

From a storytelling POV, Beth was pretty much dead weight.  She didn't bring much to the narrative.  I think that the writers COULD have done more with the character but they didn't have to.  I also think that EK lacked the acting chops to invent relevance where the writing fell short (a la Jon Bernthal, Scott Wilson, and Lennie James).  In the past year there have been - count em - FOUR episodes where she was the main and in almost every scene - which is almost as much as Rick (the show's ACTUAL main) and these episodes, and the storylines around them, fell flat for most viewers.  Most of the reaction being to Daryl's "feelings" for Beth, not for Beth herself.  There just wasn't much compelling about her or EK's portrayal of her.  I personally would have written Beth with an unseen edge and manipulation - like things were not as hunky dory at the Greene Farm as we'd originally suspected.

 

What's getting me is everybody complaining that her death was "pointless", but the hard truth is that most death is.  MOST don't go out in a blaze of glory.  Most go out in a blaze of bad luck, momentary or lifelong stupidity, or illness.  I liked the pointlessness of her death because that made it feel REAL to me.  The popularity and "pretty" of the show I think makes people forget that this is post-apocalyptic fiction.  It is not supposed to be happy or hopeful even.  It is about the struggle and about universal truths.  In such a world the weak tend to die.  Beth wasn't a bad person and not universally weak, but weaker than those who are remaining.  Ie:  you don't bring scissors to a gun fight.  And if you are choosing to die for your last stand, it needs to count (like Merle or god help me, Lori).   But Beth was NEVER the tactician or the muscle or the voice of wisdom.  She was always the one NEEDING protection (even at the hospital she was protected by Noah, by Dawn, by the Doctor), to survive this world you have to have a strength of your own.  Case in point, Rosita.  She is introduced as being attached to Abraham's hip - he is big and strong and violent - but we later see that she is willing to take on HIM if need be.  Beth stood up to one person and that person blew her brains out.  That's pretty much the sum of her.

 

One last thing, if the show brings her back because of a petition or relents artistically on ANY issue due to peer pressure, I am officially done.  I don't believe in allowing the audience to shape your story.  That is not art.  Tell the story you're telling and people will choose whether or not to go along for the ride.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Timetoread

[AngelaHunter]

Some of the content these "protesters" have sent to Scott Gimple and Melissa McBride and other cast and crew has been pretty disgusting.

 

The fact that people can get this bent out of shape and venture into CrazyTown territory over a fictional character on a (let's face it) not great TV show baffles, amazes and kind of scares me.

[Ocean Chick]

I think that most of those who are signing the petition need to realize that TWD is not "a damn romance novel".  It never was intended to be, and it never will be.  Yes, there will be some romance sprinkled in (Maggie and Glenn, Sasha and Bob for a hot minute), but "Twilight" it ain't.  Thankfully.  Beth was a background character who was given the chance to shine for a few episodes before it was time for her to go.

 

And as for EK's tears, yes, I think she only found out the episode before she was due to be killed off.  But that's SOP for this show, for the most part.  If the cast isn't clear on the concept by season 5, they should be.  EK is not a special snowflake who deserves special treatment in that area.  She's got name recognition now that she would never have had before, so she needs to using this time to build on that instead of telegraphing to future employers that if they hire her, she'll have a melt down if they fire her.

[Bruinsfan]

Well, they did resurrect SWC on Prison Break, didn't they?  After her head was supposedly disconnected from her body?  LOL

" How am I suppose to write for a guy who doesn't have a head? He's got no lips, no vocal cords. What do you want me to do?"

 

 

I hated Fred on "Angel" (she's so smart and cute and all the boys love her because she's a geek girl with mean mean parents!!!!) so much that it helped me stop watching the show (along with several other things). When I found out she died, I just sort of shrugged, as by that time I'd lost all interest in ever watching the show again anyway.

Not just died, they had her immortal soul  eaten up by an ancient demon-god that went around wearing her body like an overcoat afterwards! I don't know of anyone in television who has ever been killed so thoroughly. I think Joss Whedon intended for it to be tragic and heartbreaking, but I was too busy doing the touchdown celebration.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Bruinsfan

[Timetoread]

 

The cast may agree with the fans that they will miss Beth, but they have not said a word about fragging Gimple or Kirkman or AMC. The cast are not crazy, and they say the exact same thing with each character death I loved working with him/her! And I loved that character! I will really miss our scenes blahblahblah.

 

This is smart politics in Hollywood; not one time has anyone on TWD said I'm kinda glad he/she is gone! What a pain in the ass to work with! The fewer characters on the show, the more screentime for me yay! Now the internet and press and media will go back to my pix/interviews/speculation thank God.

Beth fans are too young to get it (overall; yes I realize people over 14 liked her.)

 

I've also noted that AL and NR are the biggest politicos on the show; even when the Frank Darabont thing happened it was oh well I don't know enough to comment and when Dale was written out over it oh, well, there's issues that I am not involved with.

The smart people realize they have the best job they had on the number one drama...and tell your wife how you really feel, tell your dog, but keep your mouth shut and don't bite the hand that feeds you. I bet anything that AL and NR knew perfectly well she was going, as TPTB say, and they told EK they didn't because she'd want to know why they didn't warn her or why they didn't go to the mat for her etc.

EK should be grateful for the best job she ever had including getting paid for basically standing around 50% of the time she was on camera. Even shows without zombies (soaps, cop shows, sitcoms) ditch people all the time and they are not obligated to keep you forever.

Grow up EK, you could have made a positive spin about career opportunities for other projects but you blew it and came off like some rube who came to Hollywood on a turnip truck. It's 2014...even viewers are more savvy about the business. (If she didn't know till episode 7 she knew less than a casual glance at any entertainment site has been saying since season 4.)

 

I too find her weeping offputting.  I think the show runners have said repeatedly since Season 1 that NONE of the characters are safe. Any one of them can die in any episode - including Rick.  Most working actors know that and play the HELL out of their character until it's time to go.  For several of the more talented actors, that tactic succeeded in extending their stay.  But the smart actors use every opportunity as just that, opportunity. 

 

 

 

Well I can see cheering for the death of Gareth or the Gov, those guys were bad guys. Whatever you think of Beth (stupid, immature, silly, kind, loyal, patient, etc), she was no bad guy so for me, when I read here some people cheered her death, that just grossed me out because it's so ugly. Cheer for the (fictional) death of a (fictional) young woman? Ugly and I dont understand it. Dont want to understand it either. Anyway, at first I was pissed off about Beth's death (for fuck's sake, she didnt even draw BLOOD!) but now, whatever, it's a bleak show, made bleaker by her death (to me, Im just talking about my emotional response here). Fuckit, I'm still reading the comic even though I vowed to stop reading it when a certain character's head was bashed in....but Im still at it.

 

I guess I'm as pathetic as Beth......but you know what? Trade places with Beth and I would have walked right out of that hospital and not looked back. Fuck stupid Noah!

 

Well grab yourself a barf bag and sign me up for a freak show because I CHEERED knowing that I would no longer have to suffer the following list of insufferable characters on my television screen (cue the TD In Memorium music): Dale (old, perverted, and stupid is no way to live through an apocalypse), Lori (I've never prayed so hard), Andrea (when the Zombie-to-be tells  you to hurry up and you don't, then you deserve what you get!), the Governor (just went on too, too long), Tara's girlfriend (she just bugged), Tara's niece (you're 9 years old still making mud patties - time to go!), Hershel (That's right, I said it. I was so tired of his speechifying and telling people how to raise their children and acting like he was wise, when just a while ago he was feeding chickens to the zombies he kept in a barn.  You said your piece, now rest in peace.), Gareth ( a truly satisfying demise), and Beth (Finally.  4 1/2 seasons of boredom is long enough).  Tyreese (When you wish upon a star...)

 

That said, I had an appropriate reaction to the dramatic scenes and aftermath of each one. I even cried through Lori's death (which shocked the hell out of me).  I won't apologize that I make a distinction between fact and fiction.  I may want somebody off a show but I don't wish them ill in real life.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Timetoread

[ghoulina]

We never got to know Amy.  I would have loved to have seen more from Beth if a better actress had been cast to play her.  Emily Kinney is a weak actress and I was tired of watching her lurch through her scenes and now i'm glad she's gone.

 

Agree and agree. I have zero problems with the character of Beth. Amy was another young blonde, who was supposed to be this happy, positive person. But with her, I bought it. She was likeable in her, what? Three episodes? But watching Emily Kinney was liking watching paint dry. She is a sweet girl, but very very awkward and inauthentic onscreen. So it just never got to the point where I cared much. I wasn't actively rooting for her to die (as with Andrea), but contrary to her thread title, I will not miss her. 

[AngelaHunter]

Tara's niece (you're 9 years old still making mud patties - time to go!),

 

Hey, get it right! They were "peanut budder sammiches!" ;)

[Kadlin Mormont]

HAHAHA!

 

https://38.media.tumblr.com/81143a99fe2e618f594919471acd668b/tumblr_nga6m5FowL1smcx9fo1_500.jpg

 

Edit:  Turns out the tweet is fake but the instagram shootdown from AMC is real.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Kadlin Mormont

[Milaxx]

....

 

But I also I don't think she warrants a bring back petition. She wasn't that interesting. 

Not one bit.  I was actually hoping they'd never find her after they saw her driven off in that car.

 

Is this a spoiler? Because in show time, Beth has been dead for about 1 minute of screen-time. No one had an arc after her death (unless you count Morgan in the coda) because that closed the episode. After Beth died, I saw the reactions of ALL of our gang to her death. Maggie's was highlighted, as was Daryl's, which makes sense since they were the closest to her.

 

I don't know what impact this will have on Daryl since the episode ended before any other threads started up, so unless we see in 2015 Maggie's grief for her sister ignored in favour of showing Daryl's grief, I think it's a little too soon to condemn the death of Beth (heh, it rhymes!) simply as a device to give meat to Daryl's narrative.

 

And let's be honest, considering how much time the crew spent at the prison, those bonds will be very strong, so the person most affected by the loss of Beth will be Judith and she will ROCK her facial reactions to her missing caretaker. ;)

 

If you watch the scene closely not only is Darryl upset, but both Rick and Carol are in tears. Maggie has that dramatic breakdown. From what I saw others were clearly impacted by her death

I really dont think TPTB will go this way but (spoiler tag for comic)

Carl was shot in the head and yet he still lives! Lost an eye but he's not only alive and well but learning how to be a smithy! Oh and he just killed to youngsters with a shovel.

So I guess if they really really wanted to go completely off the rails, they could in fact bring Beth back. But they wont. I dont think.

This could actually happen. People have had that happen to them and lived. Personally I think it would be kind of awesome, but I agree, I doubt TPTB would take that route on tv.

 

I think that most of those who are signing the petition need to realize that TWD is not "a damn romance novel".  It never was intended to be, and it never will be.  Yes, there will be some romance sprinkled in (Maggie and Glenn, Sasha and Bob for a hot minute), but "Twilight" it ain't.  Thankfully.  Beth was a background character who was given the chance to shine for a few episodes before it was time for her to go.

 

And as for EK's tears, yes, I think she only found out the episode before she was due to be killed off.  But that's SOP for this show, for the most part.  If the cast isn't clear on the concept by season 5, they should be.  EK is not a special snowflake who deserves special treatment in that area.  She's got name recognition now that she would never have had before, so she needs to using this time to build on that instead of telegraphing to future employers that if they hire her, she'll have a melt down if they fire her.

What's starting to annoy me is every post interview she gives EK is talking about how she doesn't feel it was Beth's time to go. It feels a little too much "poor whittle me" and unprofessional. I'd love to see an interview where she talks about enjoying her time on the show, but she's looking forward to doing other things now and "Oh by the way, have you listened to my new single?"

[AngelaHunter]

People have been shot in the head, been stabbed and had nails driven into their skulls and have survived and even recovered completely. NO one could have the back of his/her head blown out, along with a good portion of brain, and lived. Like, duh. Anyone who thinks there's a way to bring someone back from that is just being annoying. Oh, and stupid. They need to find another target to work out their Mary Sue & Daryl fantasies.