S05.E01: No Sanctuary

[Lila82]

The Terminus crew makes me sad.  I don't agree with their choices, but the lost potential is devastating.  They created this beautiful place, a sanctuary during living, breathing horror, only for their hope to be destroyed by the very worst of humanity.  And in turn, for them to engage in depravity that rivals their tormentors'.  It's just...people are really the worst.  The one theme the show has consistently and eloquently developed is that the real monsters are the humans, and this development only furthered that cause.  I don't hate Gareth and Co.  I'm mostly sad that they tried and failed.   But I like the implications for our people.  How far will they fall, and what, if anything, will keep them from falling over the edge?

 

There seems to be a lot of fandom battling over a love interest for Daryl, but I just like the rare moments when he connects with someone.  I liked his reunion with Carole, but it was the second embrace, when he kind of fell into her because he couldn't bear to let her go, that really stole the show.  They have both come so far and evolved into full-fledged humans through their relationship with each other.

 

ETA:

 

Glenn had the right idea and I like that he was the conscience of the group.  His gesture didn't last long but he insisted on opening the door and hanging on to his humanity, to the group's humanity.

 

 

During those scenes, I kind of felt like I was watching a grownup episode of "The 100," which is not a connection I should probably make.  Still, I like that *someone* is holding onto their moral center.  As Adama would say, "It is not enough just to survive, one has to be worthy of survival."

Edited October 13, 2014 by Lila82

[kikismom]

Who was Alex?

 

 

I'm wondering the same thing. Was he one of the guys that was taking their weapons when Rick and the gang arrived? Did Rick or the others kill him? Was he the guy laying dead on the table (they were cutting him to eat him)? I have a terrible memory and watch way too many shows so I don't remember.

Remember when Richonne Grixon goes in the poster room, and Gareth says Alex will give you the tour, and then Rick ends up holding a gun to Alex's head and he's pleading with Gareth who says "Shut up Alex".

[ghoulina]

I'm wondering the same thing. Was he one of the guys that was taking their weapons when Rick and the gang arrived? Did Rick or the others kill him? Was he the guy laying dead on the table (they were cutting him to eat him)? I

 

Alex was the one in "A" that led Rick's group out to the BBQ area. He had the pocket watch, that tipped Rick off to something being shady. Apparently he was also Gareth's brother, which was revealed tonight on TTD. How he died, though, I do not know. I recall Rick taking him hostage, so to speak, when he realized what was going on....but I didn't think he killed him?

[Morrigan2575]

Oh last season....OK I didn't remember him... Long time ago.

I liked his reunion with Carole, but it was the second embrace, when he kind of fell into her because he couldn't bear to let her go, that really stole the show. They have both come so far and evolved into full-fledged humans through their relationship with each other.

I loved everything about it but that final embrace where he falls into her is just perfect.

I also loved the smile on Rick's face when he realized what Carol did and the joy when he saw Judith.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[natyxg]

Remember when Richonne Grixon goes in the poster room, and Gareth says Alex will give you the tour, and then Rick ends up holding a gun to Alex's head and he's pleading with Gareth who says "Shut up Alex".

 

Right, right. Cause Rick sees that they are using Maggies poncho and Glens gear. Does he die in the gunfire?

[raven]

 

I could understand where Glenn was coming from, but I didn't think it was good idea. 

I was OK with it.  Let them out and they have a chance, left in the boxcar would definitely die of thirst.  He can let them out but doesn't need to guard them after.

 

Hey at the very least they might become zombie bait instead of you.  

[SoSueMe]

The Terminus crew makes me sad.  I don't agree with their choices, but the lost potential is devastating.  They created this beautiful place, a sanctuary during living, breathing horror, only for their hope to be destroyed by the very worst of humanity.  And in turn, for them to engage in depravity that rivals their tormentors'.

It's just...people are really the worst.  The one theme the show has consistently and eloquently developed is that the real monsters are the humans, and this development only furthered that cause.  I don't hate Gareth and Co.  I'm mostly sad that they tried and failed.   But I like the implications for our people.  How far will they fall, and what, if anything, will keep them from falling over the edge?

There seems to be a lot of fandom battling over a love interest for Daryl, but I just like the rare moments when he connects with someone.  I liked his reunion with Carole, but it was the second embrace, when he kind of fell into her because he couldn't bear to let her go, that really stole the show.  They have both come so far and evolved into full-fledged humans through their relationship with each other.

BBM

Makes me think of the old saying - We have met the enemy and he is us.

[ghoulina]

The Terminus crew makes me sad.  I don't agree with their choices, but the lost potential is devastating.

 

It really is sad. And it makes it interesting, because you never know what this world is going to do to people. Mary, Alex, and Gareth were probably really nice, if nerdy, normal people before all this. And the things they went through turned them batshit insane, luring people to their camp and eating them. Then you have someone like Daryl, who if you looked at him you'd probably assume he would be a "bad guy" in the ZA, but he's the one tracking missing girls and giving half-orphaned Carl pep talks, etc. Even Merle, who was pretty scummy, had his standards. 

 

I don't feel sorry for them that they got taken down tonight. Their reign of terror needed to end. But I do feel sorry that it got to that point in the first place. 

[kikismom]

I could understand where Glenn was coming from, but I didn't think it was a good idea. It was one of those situations where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. My  first thought when he suggested this was, how are the captured going to defend themselves? They didn't have weapons. We're they even strong enough to put up a fight?

I immediately thought : How will anyone know who are Termites and who are released captives if it's just unfamiliar people running around in the smoke? You could release captives just to have your own group shoot them 5 minutes later.

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot of fandom battling over a love interest for Daryl, but I just like the rare moments when he connects with someone.  I liked his reunion with Carole, but it was the second embrace, when he kind of fell into her because he couldn't bear to let her go, that really stole the show.  They have both come so far and evolved into full-fledged humans through their relationship with each other

I have to say his crying has improved immensely since the episode where Merle died.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I still wonder if Eugene is on the level but I'll be honest I find him entertaining as hell anyway.

 

 

I am so back and forth on Eugene. Some of the time he is just standing there like Creepy McCreeperton and I want him to die horribly. Then, he will say something so... Eugene-esque in that complete deadpan and I suddenly want him to make it to the end. I don't know what it is.

[placate]

I want to see season 5 Carol go back in time and give season 2 Carol a lecture.

[kikismom]

Alex was the one in "A" that led Rick's group out to the BBQ area. He had the pocket watch, that tipped Rick off to something being shady. Apparently he was also Gareth's brother, which was revealed tonight on TTD. How he died, though, I do not know. I recall Rick taking him hostage, so to speak, when he realized what was going on....but I didn't think he killed him?

 

 

Right, right. Cause Rick sees that they are using Maggies poncho and Glens gear. Does he die in the gunfire?

Alex was actually killed by the Termites own sniper, in a Speed-type kill the hostage tactic----the hostage is the only protection Rick has, so once he dies, Rick and co. have to run.

[raven]

Ha - I loved Rick killing the Terminte, taking the gun and mowing down the other Termites.  Then he says to Bob (paraphrasing) "Now we we don't have to go around"  Hee!

 

I'm all for practical, vengeance Rick.  Plus - hot.

Edited October 13, 2014 by raven

[ghoulina]

Eugene is funny, to me. I like him. But I don't believe his cure BS for a minute.

[Gin and Tonic]

I flat out clapped with glee when Daryl reunited with Carol.  And then I watched the scene 5 times.  Their relationship is my favorite on the show because I love how much they have grown with each other's support. 

 

That said, their reunion totally reminded me of those youtube videos where a solider returns from a tour overseas and his or her dog just goes nuts with emotion when they see each other for the first time.

 

Remember when Carol was so mousey she couldn't even go out and look for her own missing daughter?  Fantastic, credible development.

[islandgal140]

 

"I'm a friend of the chick with the sword and the kid with the hat."  Prepare to die.

That dude from Terminus oozed of douche water but I have to say I thought his characterization of Michonne was spot on. A weapon carrying a weapon. Loved it!!!

 

Haven't read the graphic novels so I am completely unspoiled but Eugene's explanation that he had the cure sounded of pure BS to me. Sasha seemed to be asking him tell us the cure just in case your ass is killed during the confrontation here and he gives some roundabout non-answer. I have to say everything about that storyline bugs the hell out of me. The 'cure' is in the head of some 1 guy who hasn't or refusing to tell anyone. To top it off this 1 guy is constant mortal danger. At least right the forumla or whatever done and then you would have a backup. 

 

 

I recall Rick taking him hostage, so to speak, when he realized what was going on....but I didn't think he killed him?

 

I think Alex was shot by his own people. I guess they don't negotiate with their food.

 

Are we scheduled to see more of Gareth? I really hope that is the end of all the Terminites. 

Edited October 13, 2014 by islandgal140

[Red Fields]

What a great season premier! I loved the explosion with the walker bodies flying into the air!

I didn't think I could love you more Carol! But I do!

And the return of Morgan, yippee!

[Valny]

Great premiere and one of the most violent. I was watching with three other people and we were all going, OH!,,Eeew.. OMG!,, YEAH!

Was I the only one who thought when the guy ungagged Rick,that he was going to bite a chunk of his face off? I was actually yelling, bite him, bite him!

 

Tyrese-  I don't know when, but one day you are going to let loose on somebody who needs to be killed. Maybe if it's something bad enough like seeing someone hurt or kill his sister.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Valny

[ghoulina]

Alex was actually killed by the Termites own sniper, in a Speed-type kill the hostage tactic----the hostage is the only protection Rick has, so once he dies, Rick and co. have to run.

 

Oh gosh, okay. How do I not remember that? 

[peach]

It really is sad. And it makes it interesting, because you never know what this world is going to do to people. Mary, Alex, and Gareth were probably really nice, if nerdy, normal people before all this. And the things they went through turned them batshit insane, luring people to their camp and eating them. Then you have someone like Daryl, who if you looked at him you'd probably assume he would be a "bad guy" in the ZA, but he's the one tracking missing girls and giving half-orphaned Carl pep talks, etc. Even Merle, who was pretty scummy, had his standards. 

 

I don't feel sorry for them that they got taken down tonight. Their reign of terror needed to end. But I do feel sorry that it got to that point in the first place. 

 

I don't know.  How many people act nice and are just constrained by what society requires and what people think of them, not that they even think about it?  In another scenario, they might easily let go to baser instincts.  Other people are constrained by true conscience.  The ZA just reveals it.  Maybe Gareth and Mary weren't really that nice, even if she was president of the PTA or something. 

[ghoulina]

I want to see season 5 Carol go back in time and give season 2 Carol a lecture.

 

And I want to see season 5 Rick go back and lecture season 2 Shane.

[leisawoo]

I still feel the fire of my Shane and Laurie hatred, ghoulina! Lol.

[islandgal140]

There were a few mentions of 'public face' by Gareth and some woman so I do wonder if they hide the cannibalism from a portion of the Terminus population?

Edited October 13, 2014 by islandgal140

[blaksheba]

Wonderful start to the new season. I like the reunions.

 

Great to  see Morgan, but, unless he has at least 1 other person with him, how can anyone account for that perfect haircut he has? He is completely edge up perfectly.

 

That being said, I'm excited to see where all the stories go.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Season 5 Rick would've DEADed Shane, the first time he felt like froggy and jumped.

[SoSueMe]

Eugene is funny, to me. I like him. But I don't believe his cure BS for a minute.

I know, right? But he must have had some bona fides for Abraham & co. to be as dedicated to his protection as they are. Could he have completely snowed the people in authority?

[peach]

And I want to see season 5 Rick go back and lecture season 2 Shane.

 

I told my son that Shane would be so proud, and they needed to superimpose his face smiling down and nodding.  But he agrees with you.  lol

[SimoneS]

It really is sad. And it makes it interesting, because you never know what this world is going to do to people. Mary, Alex, and Gareth were probably really nice, if nerdy, normal people before all this. 

 

I doubt it. I bet they were terrible people before society fell apart. There are lots of horrible people who from the things that they do and say, it is obvious that if no one was looking or there were not laws promising punishment that they are capable of doing terrible things.

 

It has been my opinion that people are merely extreme versions of themselves in this Zombie Apocalypse. I noticed that Gimple said that Rick is not too far from Shane, yet I could never see Rick trying to rape a woman like Shane did. Gimple also said that Rick's crew is not far from the Termites, but I could never see Rick or his people becoming cannibals.  There are HUGE differences between Rick and his people and the bad guys (I include Shane and Meryl here) who they have encountered along the way. Rick and his crew (I include Morgan and exclude Carol here) are fundamentally good people who try not to become monsters.

Edited October 13, 2014 by SimoneS

[ghoulina]

I don't know.  How many people act nice and are just constrained by what society requires and what people think of them, not that they even think about it?  In another scenario, they might easily let go to baser instincts.  Other people are constrained by true conscience.  The ZA just reveals it.  Maybe Gareth and Mary weren't really that nice, even if she was president of the PTA or something.

 

You make a good point, and I'm sure that's the case for some people. But I also really do believe that terrible tragedies can completely change people. I cannot imagine being stuck in a box car, waiting for my turn to be raped. Or watching my mother drug out to be used by a posse of men. It drove them all crazy. I guess we can't say for sure that they were truly good people before the turn, but the fact that they DID set up a legitimate sanctuary at first leads me to believe they might very well have been. 

[sally-can-wait]

Did I miss something? How did Carol clean all of the zombie gook off of her prior to meeting everyone in the woods? It was all over her face and hair and she looked all fresh and clean when she hugged Daryl.

[Lillith]

Wonderful start to the new season. I like the reunions.

 

Great to  see Morgan, but, unless he has at least 1 other person with him, how can anyone account for that perfect haircut he has? He is completely edge up perfectly.

 

That being said, I'm excited to see where all the stories go.

I just assume his hair is done by the same person who does all of the women's eyebrows and mows all of the lawns.

[Ripley68]

This show actually made me tear up!  Carol and Daryl's reunion, Rick and Carol, Rick and Judith, it was all full of awesome!

 

So glad I'm watching Talking Dead, cause I didn't catch any of the "cameos," Sam, the BSC guy in the train car. 

I'm tired of Tyreese's conflict of Conscious.

 

Why am I so excited about a guy who we've hardly ever seen.  I think it might be because of the promises Rick gave him.

[peach]

Yeah, but things like that happen to people now, and it's not the ZA.  They don't often become serial killers of innocent people including children.  I think the fact that they showed Alex on the chopping block showed they were irredeemable people making excuses.  But that's just my opinion of course!  :)

[Adam]

The gore ratcheted up to a point where the cannibalism sidestep seemed less a feign than a concession to its weakness as a device in such an action-packed opener. In the penultimate shot, where Rick defaced the Terminus sign, it was striking how large the group had become as they all marched through the frame. And it's interesting to wonder if their unity fractures over food scarcity, possibly replicating what might have transformed Gareth's clan prior.

[kj4ever]

Mind = blown. Must think on this awhile...

[SoSueMe]

Did I miss something? How did Carol clean all of the zombie gook off of her prior to meeting everyone in the woods? It was all over her face and hair and she looked all fresh and clean when she hugged Daryl.

 

 

I just assume his hair is done by the same person who does all of the women's eyebrows and mows all of the lawns.

Lol.

[kikismom]

Somebody help me out please...all this time-jumping and arc-jumping....how many days has it been since the prison fell to the events of escape from Terminus?

[peach]

I would add that during the scene at the trough when Bob was pleading with Gareth about not doing this, because they had someone that had an answer to the whole ZA, Gareth seemed uninterested because he's frigging King of this castle.  Why would he want to go back?   Kind of like the Governor.  He was an insurance guy before the ZA.  Then he became a big shot.

 

Edited October 13, 2014 by peach

[RainOnToosdays]

Alex was the one in "A" that led Rick's group out to the BBQ area. He had the pocket watch, that tipped Rick off to something being shady. Apparently he was also Gareth's brother, which was revealed tonight on TTD. How he died, though, I do not know. I recall Rick taking him hostage, so to speak, when he realized what was going on....but I didn't think he killed him?

 

Re-watching the encore ep airing now. At the beginning, when Carol and Tyrese come up on the kid with the walkie-talkie, the kid is saying "... Alex didn't get but I get it .. the chic with the sword is a weapon with a weapon" or some such. Which makes it sound like Michonne killed Alex in the chaos before they were all herded into the boxcar. (Ric didn't kill him, he tossed him aside before he started shooting.) 

 

Edited to say - maybe he said "is a weapon without a weapon", implying since she was unarmed Alex let his guard down and she killed him bare-handed at some point? I don't know, don't have Tivo or whatnot to go back and rewatch to listen to the line again. 

Edited October 13, 2014 by RainOnToosdays

[HalcyonDays]

Oh god, this show. Show...you are just amazing. What a brilliant premiere.

 

The scene in the kill room - just horrific. So disturbing. The callousness of the Termites in simply dispatching their future dinner would make me vegetarian in no time (until I start starving...yikes but reality).

 

Tyrese - thankfully you smartened up at the end, because I just wanted to slap you for being so trusting and naive. Trust No One.

 

Michonne needs to be reunited with her katana. Honestly, the best weapon in the zombie apocalypse, hands down.

 

Carol - oh Carol. You are my new favourite. Just like we saw in the previous season, she was the only one who was making the right decisions. SMART decisions. So stealthy, smart, perfect. Her shooting crazy Mary (or whatever her name was) in the leg was perfect. Even her being told by Mary to drop her weapons, and she basically spins around and shoots Crazy Tasha Yar. Perfection. I love how Carol has grown and become the smartest badass in the bunch. Again, trust no one.

 

Oh, Daryl running and hugging Carol - my heart, my feels! I love those two together. And seeing the entire gang together was amazing.

 

Just an absolutely fantastic premiere. Well done, WD.

[mmecorday]

Great, of all the things to survive the ZA, why did chewing gum have to be one of them? And why did the douchiest douchebag to ever douche stumble upon some to make him even more uniquely annoying?

 

This was a terrific episode from start to finish and I hope it bodes well for a stellar season five.

[SoSueMe]

Somebody help me out please...all this time-jumping and arc-jumping....how many days has it been since the prison fell to the events of escape from Terminus?

Beats me. At one point tonight I thought one of the characters asked about a time frame. You know, "when was that?" and I thought great!  Now I'll know too. But the answer was something like "from the beginning" Thanks a lot. Actually, it could have been when I was watching the marathon.

[fliptopbox]

I am watching the encore and I just realized something. At the end of season 4, in "A" they put all of Rick's group in the same rail car, where they met up with Maggie, Glenn, and company. Then in the season 5 premiere they are somehow separated into 2 different cars. Nobody really explained how or why that happened. Any ideas? I can't imagine any of them would go willingly from one car to another without trying to break free.

ETA: double post.

Edited October 13, 2014 by fliptopbox

[lulee]

Did I miss something? How did Carol clean all of the zombie gook off of her prior to meeting everyone in the woods? It was all over her face and hair and she looked all fresh and clean when she hugged Daryl.

She put the zombie guts on a sheet or tarp that she wore like a poncho. So those were easy to toss. And I guess she exfoliated at the Terminus spa and got the soil off her face before meeting up with them.

Somebody help me out please...all this time-jumping and arc-jumping....how many days has it been since the prison fell to the events of escape from Terminus?

The timeline's been fuzzy and hard to pin down with the splintered group and overlapping timelines post-prison-fall. My guess is in the neighborhood of 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops.

[peach]

I am watching the encore and I just realized something. At the end of season 4, in "A" they put all of Rick's group in the same rail car, where they met up with Maggie, Glenn, and company. Then in the season 5 premiere they are somehow separated into 2 different cars. Nobody really explained how or why that happened. Any ideas? I can't imagine any of them would go willingly from one car to another without trying to break free.

ETA: double post.

They aren't in two different cars.  The Termites gassed them, and only took Bob, Glenn, Daryl, and Rick out, leaving the others behind.

[Bruinsfan]

All those stuffed toys that Carol found means that the Termites have been killing children. Horrible. The Termites all deserve to die.

Yeah, there are a lot of things I could at least find understandable if not forgivable in response to the brutal realities of a zombie apocalypse, but there really are no excuses for killing and eating helpless children.

[Macbeth]

It's the little things.  Bob making sure Sasha had a gun as he was helping people out of the cattle car.  The post-apocalpyse version of giving a woman flowers.

 

The hero of this episode is a 49 year old woman.  This is why I love and adore this show.  I had been watching Supernatural this summer and the misogony was a little too much for me.

 

Once again Christmas is coming every Sunday night - and my adrenaline will keep me up way past my bed time - and then I will crash and have nightmares as what is being shown is pretty disturbing.

 

 

 

[fliptopbox]

They aren't in two different cars.  The Termites gassed them, and only took Bob, Glenn, Daryl, and Rick out, leaving the others behind.

That does make sense. I guess my brain just warped it the second viewing.

[kikismom]

Great, of all the things to survive the ZA, why did chewing gum have to be one of them? And why did the douchiest douchebag to ever douche stumble upon some to make him even more uniquely annoying?

 

This was a terrific episode from start to finish and I hope it bodes well for a stellar season five.

Thank God; I thought I was the only one to cringe when that guy was chomping away.  I like heads being split open, but snapping gum is inexcusable.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Really wanted somebody to toss Tarsha Y'ar on the grill.

But I 'm fine with what Carol did.