S04.E05: Clickable Face

[Night Cheese]

Airing May 1, 2025

Clickable Face (2025)

After a focus group reveals a weak performance with women, Deborah does whatever it takes to connect with the coveted demo, while Kayla and Jimmy set out to book a suitable guest and Ava desperately tries to maintain the show's integrity.

[Michichick]

Ehhhh, I didn’t really like this episode. Kimmel was kinda funny.

[yesferatu]

It really occurred to me what my main issue is with this season is. In the past I have cried along with Deborah over how much she's wanted this opportunity her whole life so I am really out of patience with how much her and  Ava seem to not care. 

[catsitter]

I liked the Jimmy Kimmel bit but not keen on the rest of the episode. Deborah's show looks as though it should be on daytime tv.

[Night Cheese]

So is women ages 25-45 really the coveted demo for late night? Because I fall smack dab in the middle of that demo and I don't know any woman in that range that watches late night. I don't even know women who have cable in that age range. I know a lot of women who watch the Daily Show and Last Week Tonight, but not Deborah's brand of late night programming.

I'm finding myself laughing week in and week out because this is inherently funny, but they've really doubled-down on Deborah and Eva as enemies and I don't think I'll enjoy this lasting all season. 

[SoMuchTV]

If only they could have gotten a few more guest stars…

[WinonaDeer]

Can someone explain why the Queen of QVC, who knows how to hawk spice racks and infinity scarves and microwave covers, wouldn't already have a built in female fanbase, let alone be alone to know how to connect with them? Granted, they'd skew slightly older, but she'd at least have 40 somethings among her fanbase. 

I get Deborah wasn't popular with lesbians, which is ironic given the number that are obsessed with Jean Smart, but Deborah not being popular with all women? 

This season is half over, and it's barely out of the gate, storyline-wise. I think jpl made it too "autobiographical" and forgot about the characters already on the playing field.

I did like Jimmy Kimmel's cameo. And Stacey is a highlight. Thank God she called out both Deborah and Ava on their b.s. 

Deborah's hurt reaction, and the way Jean delivered 'that's right,' reminded me why she keeps winning emmys. They've given her virtually nothing this season, so far. If things don't turn around, I see a big goose egg for this show, coming emmys night. 

[txhorns79]

At least Julianne Nicholson and Jimmy Kimmel seemed to be having fun!  I also want to know what James Corden did to the writing staff.  

4 hours ago, WinonaDeer said:

Can someone explain why the Queen of QVC, who knows how to hawk spice racks and infinity scarves and microwave covers, wouldn't already have a built in female fanbase, let alone be alone to know how to connect with them? Granted, they'd skew slightly older, but she'd at least have 40 somethings among her fanbase. 

This.  We saw that Deborah had a multi-million dollar business going with QVC.  There is no way she could maintain that if women did not like her.  I also have to think the network would have done testing and focus groups in the lead up to Deborah's debut, so this shouldn't all be new information to Deborah or Ava, much less should it send Deborah reeling in the way it does this episode.  

I did enjoy that Ava and Deborah essentially broke their HR minder. 

[kitkat343]

I fast forwarded through whatever dreck law and order Elliot Stabler is starring in before finishing this (although in fairness I actually watch this show, not fast forward through most of it).    I love Jean Smart, and was so impressed by her performance in Fraiser.  I loved the first few seasons of Hacks, but hope the writers realize very quickly the audience wants to see her scheming and succeeding, not fighting with Ava.  

[Dminches]

I think it is time to end the Deborah/Ava feud.  This is supposed to be a comedy but it isn't funny watching 2 people at each other's throats every episode. My guess is that something will "bring them together" again. I hope they don't wait until the end of the season to do it.

 

Edited May 3 by Dminches

[Lois Sandborne]

15 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

So is women ages 25-45 really the coveted demo for late night? Because I fall smack dab in the middle of that demo and I don't know any woman in that range that watches late night.

That's me too. I do watch Seth Meyers, but usually only the top segment. I don't watch the interviews etc. unless it's someone I really like or a Day Drinking episode. I think the coveted group for late night (just like primetime) is young white men.

13 hours ago, WinonaDeer said:

Can someone explain why the Queen of QVC, who knows how to hawk spice racks and infinity scarves and microwave covers, wouldn't already have a built in female fanbase, let alone be alone to know how to connect with them? Granted, they'd skew slightly older, but she'd at least have 40 somethings among her fanbase. 

I was thinking the same thing. Especially with the whole Dance Mom bit, they even shone a spotlight on how much that crowd loves Deborah and her brands. But then I think Deborah has always probably had disdain for those women, just like the Little Debbies, even though they made her insanely rich. I can buy her veering away from that audience.

Maybe we're meant to suspend disbelief about the demographics and ratings stuff because of somewhere they're going with Deborah's character. With the panic attacks, and the focus on her not having any real friends, just her toxic bond with Ava. Maybe she's heading for a reckoning. That could put an end to the War of the Roses style shenanigans too.

Is it me, or have they amped up the gross-out humor this season?

[khyber]

So what was the purpose of the sex scene? 

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, WinonaDeer said:

Can someone explain why the Queen of QVC, who knows how to hawk spice racks and infinity scarves and microwave covers, wouldn't already have a built in female fanbase, let alone be alone to know how to connect with them? Granted, they'd skew slightly older, but she'd at least have 40 somethings among her fanbase. 

That's a very good point. 

It's clear that Eva does not belong on late night. She and Deborah are at odds over what the show should be. And everything Deborah has pushed for has sounded like a bad idea. They are really making her unlikeable. 

[shipmate]

2 hours ago, khyber said:

So what was the purpose of the sex scene? 

Nothing. Absolutely no purpose at all. Does anyone even care that Ava is part of a throuple?

Like others have been saying, there is just something “off“ about this season so far. 

[Sailorgirl26]

1 hour ago, shipmate said:

Nothing. Absolutely no purpose at all. Does anyone even care that Ava is part of a throuple?

Like others have been saying, there is just something “off“ about this season so far. 

actually, the purpose is twofold.

One, to show that the pressures of the job are 24-7 and have to be priority over everything. The episode was all about showing the toll the job takes and the amount of pressure a head writer undergoes. Many other shows have used the interruption of sex as a stress indicator; the only difference here is the relationship is not a "traditional" one.

Second, it shows that this is a better, healthier relationship for Ava than her past relationships. In her previous 1:1 relationships, because Deborah/the job is first, it negatively impacted the relationship. In the throuple, Ava being ambitious and job first is less destructive to the relationship because the other two partners still have each other and Ava isn't "abandoning" someone who is then left alone.

Edited May 3 by Sailorgirl26

[Irlandesa]

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

This.  We saw that Deborah had a multi-million dollar business going with QVC.  There is no way she could maintain that if women did not like her.

But late night audiences and QVC audiences are different audiences.  Those women aren't getting the edgy Deborah Vance that comedy clubs were getting.  The struggle that both are experiencing is translating to the medium.

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Second, it shows that this is a better, healthier relationship for Ava than her past relationships. In her previous 1:1 relationships, because Deborah/the job is first, it negatively impacted the relationship. In the throuple, Ava being ambitious and job first is less destructive to the relationship because the other two partners still have each other and Ava isn't "abandoning" someone who is then left alone.

I absolutely agree with this take.  Could they have done it a different way?  Sure but I can't think of a comparative situation that would capture the absolute frustration as well as the depiction of being left horny by a partner who got their satisfaction. Except here it's no big deal.

Edited May 3 by Irlandesa

[Dev F]

So now we know that Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon are rival talk show hosts in the Hacks universe. If Deborah is the third Big Three host, is that confirmation that Stephen Colbert's Late Show doesn't exist?

That would sort of make sense, since Deborah is supposedly taking over the same show she tested for in 1976, which was a fictional version of Late Night airing on CBS. I guess in the show's universe, Late Night is CBS's long-running 11:30 talk show, even though in the real world they didn't really have one until Letterman defected from NBC's real Late Night to start The Late Show in 1993.

Edited May 4 by Dev F

[Blakeston]

Ava was right that the wine o'clock joke was absolutely terrible, but the "who would ever want to live in Sweden" joke was terrible, too. And a visual aid showing Sweden looking pretty wouldn't make it any funnier, just more confusing.

[EtheltoTillie]

The dance mom was so terrible but the audience loved her. So I don’t even know what to make of it as a plot point. Kayla and Jimmy recognized it could be a hit?  They’re showing how hard it is to succeed with one of these shows?

Edited Sunday at 12:10 PM by EtheltoTillie

[WinonaDeer]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But late night audiences and QVC audiences are different audiences.  Those women aren't getting the edgy Deborah Vance that comedy clubs were getting.  The struggle that both are experiencing is translating to the medium.

The QVC audience that bought Deborah's comedy special DVD in record numbers would be a different audience than people tuning in to watch Deborah Vance on Late Night?

The whole gist of the show is that Deborah Vance isn't edgy. She plays to mainstream America, the people who Ava mocks and disdains. Her fans are Floridians who vacation in Vegas. 

Even her special was more autobiographical and revealing than 'edgy.' 

[slowpoked]

I think what’s “off” this season is that Ava no longer technically works for Deborah as her employer, and Deborah no longer works for herself. They both work now for a big boss who can kick them both out of the curb and the stakes have never been higher before. So of course, the dynamic should have, and had changed. It would be weird if it had not. 
 

And because of this new big boss, Ava now feels she has the same power as Deborah, that she no longer has to take Deborah’s abuse, even if deep down she loves her. I feel like that’s human nature.

As for the failing in women’s demo thing - this episode is taking place multiple months after the premiere. So it’s not farfetched that Deborah probably tested well with women during the “tryouts”, but that their shows have been failing to hold on to them, for now. Their EP said something about the first eps got great ratings, with the curiosity bump, but now that dust has settled, they’re down to 4th place. And that’s why they’re rearranging these segments of what works. I think that’s normal in the entertainment industry that you test well in certain demos during auditions, but if you fail to hold their interest, they’re not going to continue watching. 
 

That scene where Deborah expected the couple to be watching late night because of their “proximity” to Ava, only to be told, by her head writer herself, to hold off until it gets good, was heartbreaking.

[slowpoked]

On 5/3/2025 at 10:22 AM, khyber said:

So what was the purpose of the sex scene? 

Because it’s HBO?

[WinonaDeer]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Ava was right that the wine o'clock joke was absolutely terrible, but the "who would ever want to live in Sweden" joke was terrible, too. And a visual aid showing Sweden looking pretty wouldn't make it any funnier, just more confusing.

I think the point of Ava's switching out or preferring the Sweden joke wasn't that she genuinely thought it was funnier (both were objectively terrible), but that she wanted to put in a more politically progressive joke. Deborah was absolutely right that the Sweden joke wasn't funny. Ava even knew that, which is why she tried to throw in a visual to save it, and Deborah rightly called her out on that. 

The problem is that the wine o'clock joke was also horrible.

This show is starting to have the problem that the Sorkin Sunset Strip show that riffed on SNL had. The on air comedy bit parts weren't funny. 

Can this show move back to Vegas already? I miss Marty, DJ, Marcus, and Kiki. 

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, Dev F said:

So now we know that Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon are rival talk show hosts in the Hacks universe. If Deborah is the third Big Three host, is that confirmation that Stephen Colbert's Late Show doesn't exist?

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Their EP said something about the first eps got great ratings, with the curiosity bump, but now that dust has settled, they’re down to 4th place.

If they are in 4th place then there are more than three "big" networks. I don't know if they count Fox as the 4th or if there's some sort of fictional 4th network. They haven't said what network Deborah's show is airing on. But I think they've shown Deborah going in and out of Television City, which is CBS. 

[Francie]

The one moment I found worthwhile in this episode, was having Deborah spit out, "I let you get to know me, how'd that work out for me?" to Ava. FINALLY, they acknowledge that Ava didn't just stumble on to some dirt, but rather took private information, gained through confidence, and weaponized it for her own career advancement. 

Loved Stacey calling them both out. Deborah's reaction showed that she understood and recognized the criticism (she may disagree whether she should be chasing demos, but she doesn't argue Stacey is right in that she's doing that). But Ava's loud guffaw "whaaaaa?!" when called out for being obsessed with making the show highbrow. Pu-leeze! Girl, this whole fight is because you went behind the top dog's back and switched out cue cards just so you could engage in social commentary about America's lack of parental paid leave. Have a seat. Have 1,000 of them. 

22 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

One, to show that the pressures of the job are 24-7 and have to be priority over everything.

They could have done that without showing me Hannah Einbinder's naked body, faking an orgasm. Please and thank you. 

Edited Sunday at 05:10 PM by Francie
cuz 'lack' and 'laid' are two very, very different words

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

If they are in 4th place then there are more than three "big" networks. I don't know if they count Fox as the 4th or if there's some sort of fictional 4th network. They haven't said what network Deborah's show is airing on. But I think they've shown Deborah going in and out of Television City, which is CBS. 

I rewatched the ep, and Rob definitely said “but now, we have dropped to 4th place.”

And yes, I think this is on CBS. They didn’t even hide “Television City” and make it like some pretend network.

48 minutes ago, Francie said:

But Ava's loud guffaw "whaaaaa?!" when called out for being obsessed with making the show highbrow.

What was fascinating to me in that whole exchange was when Stacey said that Ava was obsessed with the submission deadline for the Peabody awards. Do late night writing qualify, or have their category? If not, it might signal that Ava may be looking to exit soon and do stuff more to her liking.

Ever since S1, there’s always been a divide between what Deborah thinks sells (generic, mass production, QVC, appeal to widest audience, etc.) vs. what Ava thinks sells (high brow, “intelligent”, politically adjacent, etc.), so their conflict isn’t anything new. It’s a matter of finding a happy middle ground, if they ever find it.

52 minutes ago, Francie said:

Ava didn't just stumble on to some dirt, but rather took private information, gained through confidence, and weaponized it for her own career advancement. 

I’m really neither Team Ava or Team Deborah on this issue because they both handled it in a shitty manner. Deborah lying about the reason why she pulled the head-writer offer to Ava. And of course, Ava pulling the blackmail card. I do agree with Ava that Deborah did teach her to pull out all the stops, when the opportunity is right in front of you, and that’s just what Ava did.

That’s why I’m glad that the writing did include Bob Lipka himself confronting Deborah in Ep1, that no one can know about their secret. Because that reinforces the fact that this one-night stand, isn’t just between Ava and Deborah, but that there real-Hacks-world consequences if the story ever gets out. Remember that right before they slept together, Bob told Deborah that they had already picked the late-night host, and Deborah acknowledged that. The fact that Deborah did eventually get the gig, through other means and manipulation, just upped the stakes for everyone else.

 

[chaifan]

10 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I’m really neither Team Ava or Team Deborah on this issue because they both handled it in a shitty manner. Deborah lying about the reason why she pulled the head-writer offer to Ava. And of course, Ava pulling the blackmail card. I do agree with Ava that Deborah did teach her to pull out all the stops, when the opportunity is right in front of you, and that’s just what Ava did.

Yes, this sums up how I feel about the blackmail situation.  I've never had the "oh, you're a horrible person" response to Ava about this, and this concisely says why.  

I am wondering...  is the late night ad demographic really targeted to 25-45 year old women?  Because that makes no sense to me.  Mainly, because (mostly) this is the age range of women with infants/small children.  You know, those creatures who suck every bit of energy out of you and force you to find sleep whenever you can.  I don't see new/young mothers wasting time on late night tv.  

I also wonder about what audience the writers are writing for.  In real life, I don't think it makes much difference, but with Deborah's set up, I think her in-person audience will be her true, life long fans.  But the tv audience has to be broader than that.  What goes over really well in studio (dancing mom) will probably flop with a wider audience.  The same for her jokes, guests, etc.  Deborah is writing for her in-studio audience, her loyal fans.  Ava is going for something bigger.

I am among those not crazy about this season.  If the season were 12, 15 or more episodes, this all would be fine.  But it's too much conflict, taking up too much of the season, and not in a funny way.

Edited to add:  Julianne Nicholson was great as dancing mom.  Such a departure from her more recent role in Paradise.  Which, if you haven't seen, you should.  

 

Edited Sunday at 06:19 PM by chaifan

[Francie]

17 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

The fact that Deborah did eventually get the gig, through other means and manipulation, just upped the stakes for everyone else.

What are the means and manipulation that Deborah engaged? Everything Deborah did to get the gig -- hawk herself on shows, etc. -- was out in the open. The most she did was bribe a caddy to have Lipka put in her golf party. You're equating that with "give me the promotion to head writer or I'll embarrass you nationwide via the New Yorker and cause you to lose the one thing you've wanted for 40 years"?

She had no idea J&K were up to getting the No. 1 pick to back out to be in a movie. Even that seems all fair game. Kayla may have taken information from her dad, but it wasn't that hard of a trap, apparently. 

After Deborah learned she wouldn't get the gig, she stopped trying. 

So I'm not seeing these underhanded "means and manipulation" to get the Late Night show gig. 

17 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

That’s why I’m glad that the writing did include Bob Lipka himself confronting Deborah in Ep1, that no one can know about their secret. Because that reinforces the fact that this one-night stand, isn’t just between Ava and Deborah, but that there real-Hacks-world consequences if the story ever gets out.

You don't think that was more about him being a married man and having an affair get out?

Also, I'm not seeing how that makes what Ava did any less grotesque. The threat of it being made public -- and the public misunderstanding what Deborah did -- was what made the threat possible.  Ava knows Deborah didn't sleep with Lipka to get the job. But that's the threat she was making. She'd lie to the New Yorker and tell them she just found out that Deborah slept with Lipka to get the job, and that her conscious didn't allow for the world to not know that. 

Edited Sunday at 06:29 PM by Francie

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, WinonaDeer said:

This show is starting to have the problem that the Sorkin Sunset Strip show that riffed on SNL had. The on air comedy bit parts weren't funny. 

Studio City on the Sunset Strip acted like everything the in-show creatives did was the height of comedy and brilliant.  That's why it was an issue.  At least with this Hacks late night stuff, I don't think we're supposed to think what makes it to air is brilliant.  If anything, there's a lack of direction which is leading to a lackluster on air product.  They've been kind of smart because when they were throwing out ideas, they never developed them far enough so we'd see whether or not they'd pan out.  And most of the jokes we see are a reflection of creative differences.

What I find interesting is that the Dance Mom segment probably would do what a lot of these late night shows look for these days and that is go viral. 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

8 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

What I find interesting is that the Dance Mom segment probably would do what a lot of these late night shows look for these days and that is go viral. 

 

As I hear it, the ratings for these shows depend heavily on viral social media postings.  They no longer count only the broadcast viewers.

Edited Sunday at 06:35 PM by EtheltoTillie

[slowpoked]

12 minutes ago, Francie said:

What are the means and manipulation that Deborah engaged? Everything Deborah did to get the gig -- hawk herself on shows, etc. -- was out in the open. The most she did was bribe a caddy to have Lipka put in her golf party. You're equating that with "give me the promotion to head writer or I'll embarrass you nationwide via the New Yorker and cause you to lose the one thing you've wanted for 40 years"?

Maybe I wasn’t clear, but I don’t think I ever said, or meant, that Deborah fought through other means and manipulation to get the gig. Yes, it was more J&K, because Jimmy did hustle to get important face time with Winnie (worth 20K), and Kayla’s most shining moment so far, getting her dad to convince that the original late night host to take the movie gig. But nevertheless, Deborah got it, and while it’s probably highly unfair that people may think she had an affair to get the gig, that will unfortunately be the perception.

16 minutes ago, Francie said:

You don't think that was more about him being a married man and having an affair get out?

Sure, that too. Of course that’s important. But he’s also the CEO of a huge conglomerate company, and in a post Me Too world, also probably doesn’t want the perception that important jobs in his company are up for grabs if women are willing to sleep with him. Sounds equally important, IMO. Bob isn’t just a private citizen. He has a very high public profile.

[Irlandesa]

6 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

As I hear it, the ratings for these shows depend heavily on viral social media postings.  They no longer count only the broadcast viewers.

Yep.  Helen Hunt's character alluded to it when she said she was looking for "spinoffs" or Deborah's version of Carpool Karaoke.

1 minute ago, slowpoked said:

Sure, that too. Of course that’s important. But he’s also the CEO of a huge conglomerate company, and in a post Me Too world, also probably doesn’t want the perception that important jobs in his company are up for grabs if women are willing to sleep with him. Sounds equally important, IMO. Bob isn’t just a private citizen. He has a very high public profile.

And Deborah wouldn't want it to look like the first woman to get the late night job in decades got it because she slept with the higher up.

[slowpoked]

8 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

As I hear it, the ratings for these shows depend heavily on viral social media postings.  They no longer count only the broadcast viewers.

Exactly. As Winnie scolded them during their “get your shit together” dinner, what’s your “Carpool Karaoke”?!

[Francie]

Live-to-tape, not live. 

I forgot another point that drove me crazy. Late Night is a live-to-tape show, not a live show. So why the hell did Ava think she was going to get away with switching out the cue cards? IRL, Deborah would just have stopped the taping, and have the cue cards switched out. Even with what they did, she could have told her joke from memory, and then re-did it. I have to head canon that Ava was hoping Deborah would read the joke, it would land, and Deborah would then keep it in. Oy, the work I have to do in my head to make this season make any sense. Please, please, please hire writers who care for the last season. I beg you, show. Bring it in for a decent landing. Don't Game of Thrones this shit!

New Grounds for Termination

Speaking of which, any putting far more effort into this that the writers did, Ava's cue card stunt would justify her termination. Get a statement from Stacey that Deborah did not approve the joke, from the cue card writer that Ava directed him to switch out the joke, and there's cause for termination. I say 'cause for termination' because likely Ava has a contract.* At that point, Ava's threatened blackmail is useless. She can then cry to Nomi at the New Yorker all she wants, but all she has is her word against Deborah and Bob's.** And, having taken the job and then been fired, she looks like a disgruntled employee seeking revenge. And unless she makes up when she learned about the tryst, she'll lose the high ground of "my conscious wouldn't allow me not to reveal this." 

*Which is something else that has always bothered me. And this is where it get too real life and in the weeds for me. As someone who has drafted employment contracts and walked high level execs through them, Ava's head writer job would have to be be subject to a contract, and union rules. And if she hadn't signed a contract when Deborah pulled the job from her, that's life. I've seen that happen more times than I can count. You don't really have the job -- or one that can't be unilaterally taken away at will -- if you don't have your signature on a contract. But I get Hacks lives in a world where there's no Covid, only two years have passed since the premiere episode, and there are no employment contracts (only the DNA from when she worked for Deborah). 

** I will give this, Ava is an amateur at the blackmail game. To make that threat meaningful and play in the big leagues, she would have needed to record a confession from Deborah. The threat alone of putting her allegation out there was enough to stop Deborah in her heels. Deborah knew she didn't need the bad press, even if she and Bob disputed Ava's claim. But now that Ava has the gig, that leverage is nearly all gone. If Ava fucks up in the job, no one would believe her if she claims she really was fired for having blackmailed her boss. She'd be spitting into the wind if she claimed Deborah initially got the job by sleeping with Lipka. 

Edited Sunday at 07:51 PM by Francie
joke, not job

[ofmd]

I mean, I always thought the feud was a terrible idea.

They could at least have used the slight softening in last week's ep to build on that.

And I'm starting to get fed up with both of them - not just for the fighting, but the trite material Deb wants on the one hand (mostly daytime tv material), and othoh Ava not realizing that if she wants a Peabody Award, she needs to hook up with John Oliver's team. I'm glad the watchdog woman called them out!

Judging from Ava's face in the end, I thought she'll quit. Ofc it's possible she'll get fired first.

I doubt they'll reconcile before the season's final episode.

There were still funny scenes and lines, but yeah... the feud is dragging the show down.

On a sidenote, I thought Deborah was pretty rude when she confronted Ava in front of the couple... My take was that Ava's remark was a reaction to that. Still ... enough with the bickering.

I'm guessing they'll learn that the real late show should be something in between what each of them wants, plus that they are more similar than they'd like to admit, and... yawn, I'm bored.

 

[txhorns79]

5 hours ago, ofmd said:

On a sidenote, I thought Deborah was pretty rude when she confronted Ava in front of the couple... My take was that Ava's remark was a reaction to that. Still ... enough with the bickering.

I'm with you.  Deborah was just being rude, and trying to embarrass Ava and her friends.  I didn't blame Ava for being dismissive of her in return.  

5 hours ago, Francie said:

At that point, Ava's threatened blackmail is useless. She can then cry to Nomi at the New Yorker all she wants, but all she has is her word against Deborah and Bob's.** And, having taken the job and then been fired, she looks like a disgruntled employee seeking revenge. And unless she makes up when she learned about the tryst, she'll lose the high ground of "my conscious wouldn't allow me not to reveal this." 

The allegation that Deborah has her job due to sleeping with the network president is explosive enough that it could ruin Deborah regardless of whether Ava had credibility issues.   

[slowpoked]

6 hours ago, ofmd said:

They could at least have used the slight softening in last week's ep to build on that.

I also thought last week’s sweet ending was the start of the reconciliation between the two. And maybe the next few episodes after the premiere did do just that. But since there’s a slight time jump between last week to this one, and they finally have their first news of the ratings, they now have a new mountain to climb. Last week, it was the premiere. This ep, it’s the ratings. And as usual, both of them just have different ideas of achieving what they think is best for the show. 
 

I think the underrated part of their new dynamic right now is Deborah having difficulty coming to terms that she no longer has the last word or that she can get what she wants at the end of the day, unlike when she was doing stand-up. Much higher stakes indeed.

 

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/2/2025 at 5:31 PM, yesferatu said:

It really occurred to me what my main issue is with this season is. In the past I have cried along with Deborah over how much she's wanted this opportunity her whole life so I am really out of patience with how much her and  Ava seem to not care. 

No way would Deborah Vance have ever gotten into a screaming match in front of the audience. Period. She is too savvy, and knows that too much is at stake. It's as though the writers are making Deborah's character completely upended to fit whatever situation they put her in.

On 5/3/2025 at 2:13 PM, Sailorgirl26 said:

actually, the purpose is twofold.

One, to show that the pressures of the job are 24-7 and have to be priority over everything. The episode was all about showing the toll the job takes and the amount of pressure a head writer undergoes. Many other shows have used the interruption of sex as a stress indicator; the only difference here is the relationship is not a "traditional" one.

Second, it shows that this is a better, healthier relationship for Ava than her past relationships. In her previous 1:1 relationships, because Deborah/the job is first, it negatively impacted the relationship. In the throuple, Ava being ambitious and job first is less destructive to the relationship because the other two partners still have each other and Ava isn't "abandoning" someone who is then left alone.

I gotta disagree. There is no "relationship" there. There is an arrangement. For her sake, I hope Ava doesn't view it as a relationship, or otherwise she is certainly showing very unhealthy patterns, like lying about her entire professional and personal background, since the couple was surprised to find out that Ava even knew Deborah before the show. And if it wasn't "lying", because maybe they hadn't discussed it before, then that's more proof that it isn't a relationship, since that kind of a topic would have been the equivalent of a first, second, or third date conversation in a relationship. She appears to be a convenience for them, since as depicted, they couldn't have cared less when she left in the middle of the sex. And what she is getting is sex, and an ego boost, that a guy and a girl already with partners would want to include her too.

20 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Ava was right that the wine o'clock joke was absolutely terrible, but the "who would ever want to live in Sweden" joke was terrible, too. And a visual aid showing Sweden looking pretty wouldn't make it any funnier, just more confusing.

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

At least with this Hacks late night stuff, I don't think we're supposed to think what makes it to air is brilliant. 

I know that Ava made the comment about waiting for it to get good, but I'm not convinced that in the world of the show, the jokes aren't viewed as funny and good.

[Dev F]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If they are in 4th place then there are more than three "big" networks. I don't know if they count Fox as the 4th or if there's some sort of fictional 4th network.

They specifically say in the season premiere that Deborah is "the first woman at 11:30 on one of the Big Three," so that's definitely still a thing in the Hacks universe. I think the "fourth place" talk means she's behind the other two Big Three networks and also Fox.

Quote

They haven't said what network Deborah's show is airing on. But I think they've shown Deborah going in and out of Television City, which is CBS.

There's also this shot from season 1, which shows that Deborah's original Late Night pilot was for CBS.

 

[marceline]

On 5/2/2025 at 5:31 PM, yesferatu said:

It really occurred to me what my main issue is with this season is. In the past I have cried along with Deborah over how much she's wanted this opportunity her whole life so I am really out of patience with how much her and  Ava seem to not care. 

This. This is what has been bothering me all season. Deborah finally has what she's wanted her whole life and watching her care more about fighting with Ava has begun to get on my nerves. One or two episodes, okay but we're now at ep five. It's time for these characters to move past this.

[Sailorgirl26]

21 hours ago, Francie said:

 

They could have done that without showing me Hannah Einbinder's naked body, faking an orgasm. Please and thank you. 

You could say that about a lot of shows--necessary or unnecessary, coitus interruptus is often used as a way to show work intrusion on personal lives. 

[sskrill]

Imo the show just isn't all that funny this year. In seasons past, even in serious or challenging moments, there was still humor, but it seems to be missing.  I just rewatched 4 + 5 and the only time I laughed was when Deborah was explaining to Ava how she ended up in the hospital and Ava replied "That old chestnut?"

Thinking back to when Deborah was upset about sleeping with Bob and Ava threw in "Girl, what happened to your hair?"  And after Deb slapped Ava she showed up at her fathers funeral and brought some joy to the event. Even at their worst it was still funny. Not so much anymore.

I'm not prudish but I also could have done without how graphic that scene was. This show has had plenty of sex/relationships but it seems like its only Hannah's character that is overexposed. They could have modified it with a sheet and camera angles and still conveyed the same thing.

[Francie]

On 5/5/2025 at 9:40 AM, Sailorgirl26 said:

You could say that about a lot of shows--necessary or unnecessary, coitus interruptus is often used as a way to show work intrusion on personal lives. 

That scene begged for less coitus and more interruptus. 

[snarktini]

Everyone Sucks Here. They are both partially right and mostly wrong, and their vast egos and self-righteousness can’t get out of the way

Deborah is right that a late show has to appeal to a broad audience and that keeping some old writers was necessary to ensure someone knows how to write for this format and pace. But in her panic she overlooked that using only old writers doesn’t make sense if late shows are generally failing — doing more of the same won’t help, nor will trying to be everything to everybody. It’s like her QVC and sponsorship stuff, she will sell anything if it makes a buck it doesn't matter if it's crap. Luckily she compromised on the balanced writing crew, the best decision she’s made so far. She can’t succeed at this if she doesn’t drop the defensiveness and knee-jerk dismissal of every bit of feedback. (I don’t care about her look one way or another but that French twist updo hasn’t been in style for 30+ years. It’s not bizarre feedback.)

Ava is wildly off base wanting to create “art” — no one has ever seen late night television as art — but she’s right that to succeed and stand out, Deborah needs to find her unique voice. Deborah needs to be a real person onstage not just a joke machine painting by numbers. But there’s a limit to what late night can be, and tilting too political / niche is not the way. Just like Kayla, she could use a tiny bit of humility! What even made her think she SHOULD be the only head writer?! She’s never done anything like this before, it’s a massively high-profile and high-demand show, and it would have been actually smart for her career to spend a year collaborating with the old head writer to learn this particular context. She may be good but she's not as good (yet) as she thinks she is.

One of the guys in the focus group is a comedian I follow on insta — he does very funny bits of “X and if I would date them”. Fruits and if I would date them, candy and if I would date them. Good for him getting a speaking role!

[MicheleinPhilly]

16 hours ago, snarktini said:

Ava is wildly off base wanting to create “art” — no one has ever seen late night television as art — but she’s right that to succeed and stand out, Deborah needs to find her unique voice. Deborah needs to be a real person onstage not just a joke machine painting by numbers. But there’s a limit to what late night can be, and tilting too political / niche is not the way. 

I think Ava wants the show to be The Daily Show but that's not what the 11:30 slot on the Big 3 has ever been. Yes, Kimmel, Colbert, and Fallon all get political in their monologues, but that's not the type of comedian they've ever shown Deborah to be. I see her as more of a Jay Leno. 

[Lois Sandborne]

On 5/4/2025 at 11:08 AM, slowpoked said:

What was fascinating to me in that whole exchange was when Stacey said that Ava was obsessed with the submission deadline for the Peabody awards. Do late night writing qualify, or have their category? If not, it might signal that Ava may be looking to exit soon and do stuff more to her liking.

They showed that in the episode when Ava ran into the writers she used to work with on the Last Week Tonight-esque show. At the bar when they were talking about breaking a big story and being invited to the White House, Ava couldn't come up with anything she was doing that felt equally important or impressive. Later she fought Deborah on the Sweden joke and slid it into the cue cards.

Ava wants to be seen and more specifically wants to be recognized as someone creative and smart. She pushed so hard for head writer because she thought putting her work with Deborah in front of a national audience would do that for her. So far it hasn't because she's not actually working with Deborah at the moment.

Edited Wednesday at 02:05 PM by Lois Sandborne

[ofmd]

Late Night def has a Peabody category, bc Colbert regularly whines about losing to John Oliver!

Edited Wednesday at 07:21 PM by ofmd

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/4/2025 at 3:48 PM, ofmd said:

On a sidenote, I thought Deborah was pretty rude when she confronted Ava in front of the couple...

On 5/4/2025 at 9:14 PM, txhorns79 said:

I'm with you.  Deborah was just being rude, and trying to embarrass Ava and her friends.  I didn't blame Ava for being dismissive of her in return.

Yes. That was intentional.  She was trying to embarrass her. And Ava was embarrassed, but the couple didn't care at all.

On 5/6/2025 at 4:47 PM, snarktini said:

(I don’t care about her look one way or another but that French twist updo hasn’t been in style for 30+ years. It’s not bizarre feedback.

I agree that it's dated.  I prefer her natural shorter hair.  But way to overcompensate with that crazy-long wig dipping into the food!  Have the hair people never heard of shoulder-length?

4 hours ago, ofmd said:

Late Night def has a Peabody category, bc Colbert regularly whines about losing to John Oliver!

Colbert has received five Peabody Awards: 2 for The Daily Show in 2000 and 2004, T2 for he Colbert Report in 2007 and 2011, and 1 for The Late Show with Stephen Colbert in 2020.