S03.E06: Denials

[aghst]

49 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

There are going to be a lot of people at Gary's house, so I don't think he will try to kill her...

... there.

Greg doesn't keep a low profile, considering how he came into a huge amount of money.

He worked for the US government and he's got a big yacht and a spectacular villa.

You would think that would make people suspicious of him or he just invites random people to his yacht or villa and nobody asks what he does or did.

Is that how it usually works, you get invited to some yacht or a mansion and you don't wonder how the owner got so rich?

[slowpoked]

19 minutes ago, aghst said:

Greg doesn't keep a low profile, considering how he came into a huge amount of money.

He worked for the US government and he's got a big yacht and a spectacular villa.

You would think that would make people suspicious of him or he just invites random people to his yacht or villa and nobody asks what he does or did.

Is that how it usually works, you get invited to some yacht or a mansion and you don't wonder how the owner got so rich?

Especially in Belinda’s case because she already GOOGLED HIM!!! She saw she was in Land Bureau Management. She also saw he was questioned re: Tanya’s death. AND HE CHANGED HIS NAME!!!

I mean how many more red flags, or sirens does Belinda need before she realizes she and her son needs to stay the f away from him!!

TBF though, Rick and Tim did ask Greg/Gary what did he do before he retired. And Greg/Gary’s answer is always “this and that.”

[JenE4]

13 hours ago, cardigirl said:

So does anyone else think Tim Ratliffe is going to pull a murder-suicide before the week is out?

I definitely thought that after the talk with the monk about life being pain, and death bringing your water droplet back to the collective consciousness, coupled with how he imagined his wife and daughter reacting to his suicide, and then reinforced when his wife said she’d rather be dead than poor. But then he imagined a murder-suicide—so now that will NOT happen. I think it’s more likely at this rate that this whole family is going to take up Buddhism and never return home. 

[Makai]

22 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

How does one do this? I wasn't aware there was a feature that would allow us to skip the photos.

Click on your avatar to open your profile and open the settings menu. Click ignored users at the bottom of the page. Start typing the user name in the box under “Add new user to ignore list”. When you see the right user pop up select them and you can select what content you want to ignore. 

13 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I don't think so. When he stole the gun, he was having a panic attack. He couldn't see a way out. Then he imagined killing himself -- suicidal ideation -- and saw the terrible aftermath, i.e., Victoria and Piper screaming and traumatized. Maybe that got him to reconsider a bit, but then Victoria said she'd rather die than be poor, so again he imagined how he would kill her and himself. I think he kind of imagined himself out of doing it.

Or he will switch to a less traumatic method like the poisonous pong pong fruit smoothie that was oh so coincidentally mentioned in the first episode. 

This show has a few Chevok’s gun. Both literally and metaphorically. 

[Blackie]

Wow I find this season moving at warp speed compared with season 1 where literally nothing happened until the last 2 episodes. 

When Victoria was talking about not wanting to live if she wasnt rich,she toned down her annoying drawl. I wonder if that was a choice, to show she was being authentic.  Anyways it made her less annoying.  She has some funny lines but i cant stand listening to her speak.

[T Summer]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well, technically, it does matter. It feels incestuous because we're talking about two brothers but it isn't technically incest if it cannot result in a pregnancy. That's what the word was invented for. It just happens we use the word more liberally these days.

I'm not coming at you, just asking how  you would  refer to    sexual activity between immediate family members? [For simplicity I'm limiting my comments to immediate family   as some states, countries or  religions allow cousins to marry.]

If a man who'd had a vasectomy or  been made sterile by some disease process   had  sex with a daughter or mother  technically it couldn't result in progeny, but it  would certainly still be incest. Just it would be  if a woman who'd undergone a sterilization procedure, was infertile  or was postmenopausal   had sex with a brother or father.

  I  think of  all sexual activity between immediate family members including same sex ones  as incest, but if there is a more correct word I'm certainly willing to update my lexicon.

 

I Googled the definition(s) and they seem to  vary  quite a bit. I even Googled for a synonym and there really isn't a suitable one, that I saw.

Oxford provides this definition:

sexual activity between two people who are very closely related in a family, for example, a brother and sister, or a father and daughter

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, KittyKat425 said:

No. It is incest if sexual activity occurs with ANY immediate family member regardless of gender....period.

Nope. I understand it feels that way and as I said earlier, we tend to throw that word around more liberally today than when the concept was first named. But incest does not include "any sexual activity." It applies specifically to intercourse.

noun

• sexual intercourse between closely related persons.
• the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

Quote

I'm not coming at you, just asking how  you would  refer to    sexual activity between immediate family members? [For simplicity I'm limiting my comments to immediate family   as some states, countries or  religions allow cousins to marry.]

I'm not trying to defend what happened between Lochlan and Saxon. It was definitely icky. It's just that technically, it's not incest. It feels incestuous but technically it isn't. I guess I'm just a stickler for grammar.

Quote

Oxford provides this definition:

sexual activity between two people who are very closely related in a family, for example, a brother and sister, or a father and daughter

And here again the definition refers to sexual activity between a male and female. The word was invented to proscribe against sexual congress between family members that could result in a pregnancy.

I'm not sure why anyone wants to insist that Lochlan jerking off his brother is incest and I guess you're free to call it whatever you want. I'm just pointing out it's technically . . . not.

Edited Wednesday at 04:09 PM by iMonrey

[aghst]

8 hours ago, Blackie said:

 

When Victoria was talking about not wanting to live if she wasnt rich,she toned down her annoying drawl. I wonder if that was a choice, to show she was being authentic.  Anyways it made her less annoying.  She has some funny lines but i cant stand listening to her speak.

She's had some of the best lines but I'm only recalling the most recent ones

"You want to live in Taiwan?"

"We have to make her fear poverty"

 

 

[bilgistic]

17 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Land Bureau Management

The Bureau of Land Management: "BLM".

[Makai]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Nope. I understand it feels that way and as I said earlier, we tend to throw that word around more liberally today than when the concept was first named. But incest does not include "any sexual activity." It applies specifically to intercourse.

noun

• sexual intercourse between closely related persons.
• the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

Nope. Outside of some legal definitions (which can still vary by jurisdiction) there is no universally accepted definition of words. They vary depending on the source and words evolve over time as colloquial usage changes. 

The Oxford definition that you quoted says sexual activity and not sexual intercourse. As does the Cambridge dictionary and the APA. 

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And here again the definition refers to sexual activity between a male and female. The word was invented to proscribe against sexual congress between family members that could result in a pregnancy.

Actually that definition only says between two people who are very closely related in a family. If them being members of the opposite sex was a requirement it would be in the definition.

The examples are between opposite genders because we live in a heteronormative society which is reflected in our language. We are seeing that evolve as gender definitions are also changing. 

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure why anyone wants to insist that Lochlan jerking off his brother is incest and I guess you're free to call it whatever you want. I'm just pointing out it's technically . . . not.

Because what happened in the episode feels every bit as incestuous as it would have if Saxon and Piper were involved. So it makes sense that many are labeling it as incest. 

Edited Thursday at 12:47 AM by Makai

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure why anyone wants to insist that Lochlan jerking off his brother is incest and I guess you're free to call it whatever you want. I'm just pointing out it's technically . . . not.

Edited 5 hours ago by iMonrey

Come on. Because if my hypothetical brother sexually molests me while I am drugged to the gills I am going to call it incest while I am devastated by it - no matter what the pedantic "official" definition calls it. If I am asking a thousand random people in the street what they would call it - besides an abomination - they are going to say incest.  

[aghst]

If a male family member molests a younger male member, how would he be prosecuted, for committing incest or just sexual assault, which would be the same as if it involved two unrelated people?

In any event, regardless of the legal definition, the point of the scene in the show is that both characters involved are very disturbed by it and it could have consequences for one or both of them.

Even if they don't bother to call the police on this event.

 

 

[iMonrey]

4 hours ago, Makai said:

Because what happened in the episode feels every bit as incestuous as it would have if Saxon and Piper were involved. So it makes sense that many are labeling it as incest. 

Whatever. Clearly this is triggering for some people. It's like if you don't call it that you're somehow accepting it as OK. I never said it wasn't wrong. I'm just not using an overly broad definition of the word because I don't feel the need to and I maintain it's technically incorrect.

Edited Thursday at 02:08 AM by iMonrey

[Makai]

 

18 hours ago, Blackie said:

Wow I find this season moving at warp speed compared with season 1 where literally nothing happened until the last 2 episodes. 

When Victoria was talking about not wanting to live if she wasnt rich,she toned down her annoying drawl. I wonder if that was a choice, to show she was being authentic.  Anyways it made her less annoying.  She has some funny lines but i cant stand listening to her speak.

I saw an interview where Parker Posey said she was doing a snotty affectation as Victoria and I think she did drop it in that moment to show that is a rare moment where Victoria wasn’t “on”.

Edited Thursday at 03:16 AM by Makai

[Sailorgirl26]

Here's one of the articles with the actor playing Lochlan and the character's reaction to the incest scene with Saxon. For those who think Lochlan is the predator, this interview negates that and the actor conveys that Lochlan is as thrown by the events of the evening as Saxon is. 

Now this could all be a red herring, but its worth a read in consideration of the was it intentional or unintentional discussion. It also implies that Lochlan DID take the drug (which may be why its a red herring as the evidence is strong that he spit out the pill). 

Not spoiler tagging it as there's no screen preview for the link but do be aware that it does alter the debate around Lochlan's culpability into the boat events. . . 

SPOILER NOTE: There is at least one spoilery comment in the article indicating Lochlan's fate, so read at your own risk. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/sam-nivola-on-that-f-king-insane-lochlan-saxon-white-lotus-scene#intcid=_vanity-fair-verso-hp-trending_a60c54e8-9444-478d-a49d-fd227fec39bd_popular4-2

 

Edited Friday at 02:44 AM by Sailorgirl26

[greyhorse]

Really tired of the Tim storyline.  How many times can we get close up shots of him staring pensively into space and envisioning how to end his life?  You screwed up, you got "only $10M".  He thinks his family won't find out after this vacation ends and they go back home?  Or he'll be dead so he won't care?

Jaclyn is the alpha of the three.  Always has been.  Always will be.  She is the celebrity actor.  She is used to attracting the guys I'm sure when they go out.  So not at all surprising that Valentin would make a beeline for her, despite Laurie taking her top off in the pool.  My question though...for those who work in resorts- is it allowed for a hotel concierge/employee to fraternize with the guests?  Even if it's on his/her own time?  Wouldn't sleeping in a hotel room with a guest be sort of against company policy?  Surely surveillance cameras capture him going to her villa and exiting?  Is this something he likely does every week and hooks up with the hottie of the week?

I find it odd that Gary would just invite "people over".  Doesn't he have local friends of his own?  He just randomly invites people who are at the resort for a week?  Obviously part of the storyline to get everyone there, I know, but just seems unrealistic.  And why oh why would Belinda even consider going?

Gaitok losing the gun was just dumb.  Not having it locked up was dumb.  And when he saw Tim and Victoria coming back, why not just duck behind some pushes off the path.  Why walk slowly by him and stare him down?  He is one of the weaker developed characters and not at all remotely interesting.

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, greyhorse said:

Really tired of the Tim storyline.  How many times can we get close up shots of him staring pensively into space and envisioning how to end his life?  You screwed up, you got "only $10M".  He thinks his family won't find out after this vacation ends and they go back home?  Or he'll be dead so he won't care?

Thoroughly agree. Until  Tim gets some clarity on just how much legal trouble he may be in and what his chances are as a first time offender accused of a white collar crime of avoiding prison time, this is all just a waste of  time IMO. If it's just that most of their wealth will be gone there's a few members of the Ratliffe family who I for one,  think could  benefit from that.

...and why does Gary continue to hang out at TWL and risk running into Belinda? It would be perfectly plausible for him to say to Chloe let's go to some other restaurant + bar, I'm sick of these tourists.

I mean no offense to anyone who refers to the interviews and podcasts and such... if fact I'm happy for those who derive enjoyment from those things, but I'd really rather  the writers convey what they need me to know to understand what's going on in the episodes! 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peeayebee]

6 hours ago, T Summer said:

I mean no offense to anyone who refers to the interviews and podcasts and such... if fact I'm happy for those who derive enjoyment from those things, but I'd really rather  the writers convey what they need me to know to understand what's going on in the episodes! 🙄

I remember people getting pissed off during Mad Men when interviews with Matthew Weiner didn't seem to jibe with what was going on in the show.

I haven't read the interview with the Lachlan actor, but from what I read here, it supports how I've been viewing Lachlan. Not a predator, did not spit out the drug, was as surprised as Saxon when remembering that night.

This season has more episodes than previous ones, right? I wonder if HBO told Mike White to make more episodes, and that's a big reason why things are moving so slowly.

[Conotocarious]

7 hours ago, T Summer said:

Thoroughly agree. Until  Tim gets some clarity on just how much legal trouble he may be in and what his chances are as a first time offender accused of a white collar crime of avoiding prison time, this is all just a waste of  time IMO. If it's just that most of their wealth will be gone there's a few members of the Ratliffe family who I for one,  think could  benefit from that.

...and why does Gary continue to hang out at TWL and risk running into Belinda? It would be perfectly plausible for him to say to Chloe let's go to some other restaurant + bar, I'm sick of these tourists.

I mean no offense to anyone who refers to the interviews and podcasts and such... if fact I'm happy for those who derive enjoyment from those things, but I'd really rather  the writers convey what they need me to know to understand what's going on in the episodes! 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a show like The White Lotus, which is filled with character studies that is nearly impossible. Part of the point of the show is to encourage different interpretations but the actors themselves certainly have special insight into what they were going for and I find that very valuable.

I also find it a great relief when an actor shoots down something the internet has seized and gone crazy with….something very black and white like did he take the pill or not. Lots of theories really went out into left field building off that and when you know it is absolutely not what happened the discussion can move on in a more productive direction.

[chaifan]

31 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I also find it a great relief when an actor shoots down something the internet has seized and gone crazy with….something very black and white like did he take the pill or not. Lots of theories really went out into left field building off that and when you know it is absolutely not what happened the discussion can move on in a more productive direction.

I agree to a point, but I also find that it's bad storytelling.  I personally thought that whole street party scene was pretty clear, that Lochlan didn't swallow the drug and spit it out.  If the actor is saying that absolutely didn't happen, then it's bad storytelling for the show to make it so plausible that at some of the audience believe it did.  What was the point of showing him spitting out his beer behind everyone's back?  What was the point of the "I'm going to take you down" comment?  I'm willing to believe that the show wanted to make it ambiguous, to keep the Lochlan character in play as a possible bad guy.  But then why let the actor announce that this wasn't the case?  

So yeah, good for general discussion.  But bad for my opinion of the show writers.  

 

 

[Conotocarious]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

I agree to a point, but I also find that it's bad storytelling.  I personally thought that whole street party scene was pretty clear, that Lochlan didn't swallow the drug and spit it out.  If the actor is saying that absolutely didn't happen, then it's bad storytelling for the show to make it so plausible that at some of the audience believe it did.  What was the point of showing him spitting out his beer behind everyone's back?  What was the point of the "I'm going to take you down" comment?  I'm willing to believe that the show wanted to make it ambiguous, to keep the Lochlan character in play as a possible bad guy.  But then why let the actor announce that this wasn't the case?  

So yeah, good for general discussion.  But bad for my opinion of the show writers.  

 

 

I actually thought so too (i mean that the writers should make things more clear) but then it became apparent that people were freeze framing shots and looking for stuff with a fine toothed comb beyond just watching the show. I just watched and never thought he spit anything out. But I don’t go over stuff looking for gotcha moments and I think that many people watch so many shows where stuff like that DOES happen so people have been trained to look for moments like this when the White Lotus is not really a show that does that.

Lots of Mike White dialogue always feel fairly real to me so I never read into “I’m gonna take you down” as anything other than bro talk which is apparently what was intended. And Saxon was knocked off his douchey pedestal so it also served as foreshadowing…just not Lachlan is a deviant psycho foreshadowing. However, I can see how people would be looking for clues….its part of the fun. But also wildly different than the previous two seasons if Lachlan is a total psychopath and not just a flawed and mixed up person (like everyone tends to be).

[magdalene]

Personally I find this White Lotus brothers incest story line deeply offensive because every day someone somewhere becomes a victim of incest - often a child - and often the victim never recovers from it and it affects their life in a negative way. And White Lotus glamorizes it with pretty actors to titillate and wink-wink to its audience without very possible no consequences whatsoever.

I don't care what the Lochlan actor calls it, his character is a sexual predator who assaulted his brother.  I don't like it when HBO is in the incest business with GOT and HOTD either but those at least are fantasy show which provides a certain extra distance from it.

[peeayebee]

31 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I just watched and never thought he spit anything out.

I watched again, too, and I don't see him spit. I think what is being mistaken for spitting is that he puts his head down after taking a swig of beer. Some people do that when they take too big a swallow of a drink. I think this showed his inexperience with drinking beer.

11 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Personally I find this White Lotus brothers incest story line deeply offensive because every day someone somewhere becomes a victim of incest - often a child - and often the victim never recovers from it and it affects their life in a negative way. And White Lotus glamorizes it with pretty actors to titillate and wink-wink to its audience without very possible no consequences whatsoever.

I don't see this as titilation. Saxon is very disturbed by what happened, and it seems like Lachlan is, too. And it happened because of drugs and peer pressure. Saxon thought he was worldly and strong enough to always be in control. As much as I disliked him thruout the season, I felt terrible for him. He didn't want to take the drug, but he was egged on by the other three. And Lachlan wanted to be a big man, like his brother, so he drank and took drugs to show how 'mature' he was. 

[Makai]

11 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

Lots of Mike White dialogue always feel fairly real to me so I never read into “I’m gonna take you down” as anything other than bro talk which is apparently what was intended. And Saxon was knocked off his douchey pedestal so it also served as foreshadowing…just not Lachlan is a deviant psycho foreshadowing. However, I can see how people would be looking for clues….its part of the fun. But also wildly different than the previous two seasons if Lachlan is a total psychopath and not just a flawed and mixed up person (like everyone tends to be).

I agree. I read that entire scene, and the previous episodes, setting up Saxon to be hoisted by his own petard. He repeatedly breaks sexual and social norms with his brother. He repeatedly makes comments on his younger siblings sex lives. He set himself up as some kind of wingman to Lachlan and went out fully intending to manipulate women into sleeping with them. Just before they were offered the drugs he tells Lachlan to pace himself and “let them get all messy.” 

He had no problem with everyone getting drunk and high because he thought he was in control of the situation. He just wasn’t counting on dealing with women who didn’t cooperate and were able to stay in control. 

Edited Friday at 03:24 AM by Makai

[magdalene]

8 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

don't see this as titilation. Saxon is very disturbed by what happened, and it seems like Lachlan is, too. And it happened because of drugs and peer pressure. Saxon thought he was worldly and strong enough to always be in control. As much as I disliked him thruout the season, I felt terrible for him. He didn't want to take the drug, but he was egged on by the other three. And Lachlan wanted to be a big man, like his brother, so he drank and took drugs to show how 'mature' he

I was specifically talking about the production, the writer,  younger brother and his actor being into the titilation of it. I read the linked article. As I have said in a previous post I felt terrible for the Saxon character who is after all the victim in this. In general it looks bad to me when a subject like this is glamorized and exploited. White Lotus is a very shallow show meant to titillate and give everything a Hollywood sheen. It ain't no Adolescence.

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I actually thought so too (i mean that the writers should make things more clear) but then it became apparent that people were freeze framing shots and looking for stuff with a fine toothed comb beyond just watching the show.

This wasn't a freeze frame situation for me.  On my first watch I thought something was up.  I went back and rewatched it, and (to me) it confirmed what I thought the first time.  I think it must have been the "I'm going to take you down" comment - you don't just put that in a show like this for -0- reason.  So I was watching Lochlan from that point.  And when the gang turned around to walk the other way, it seemed his whole facial expression changed (and then he spits out his beer).  So for me, this was something I saw in the moment, and it seemed clear to me that Lochlan was up to something.  It fits with Lochlan doing magic tricks (sleight of hand), and what I've interpreted as him thinking his brother is a douche.  But, since it obviously isn't the message intended, I'll go back to sloppy story telling.

I also wonder if there might have been some editing of the story/characters after that scene was shot.  Maybe they thought things were going a bit too dark and pulled it back a little, so the context has all changed. 

 

 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I actually thought so too (i mean that the writers should make things more clear) but then it became apparent that people were freeze framing shots and looking for stuff with a fine toothed comb beyond just watching the show. I just watched and never thought he spit anything out. But I don’t go over stuff looking for gotcha moments and I think that many people watch so many shows where stuff like that DOES happen.

I think it's fun to think of theories but not if everything else is ignored to make it work. Like it was fun to freeze frame and wonder if he was spitting something out instead of just wiping his mouth but his private, for the camera only, reaction in this episode supports the more straightforward interpretation that he took the drugs and doesn't remember what happened until the next day.

[Conotocarious]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

This wasn't a freeze frame situation for me.  On my first watch I thought something was up.  I went back and rewatched it, and (to me) it confirmed what I thought the first time.  I think it must have been the "I'm going to take you down" comment - you don't just put that in a show like this for -0- reason.  So I was watching Lochlan from that point.  And when the gang turned around to walk the other way, it seemed his whole facial expression changed (and then he spits out his beer).  So for me, this was something I saw in the moment, and it seemed clear to me that Lochlan was up to something.  It fits with Lochlan doing magic tricks (sleight of hand), and what I've interpreted as him thinking his brother is a douche.  But, since it obviously isn't the message intended, I'll go back to sloppy story telling.

I also wonder if there might have been some editing of the story/characters after that scene was shot.  Maybe they thought things were going a bit too dark and pulled it back a little, so the context has all changed. 

 

 

I think it’s differing interpretations because I never thought he thought his brother was a douche. I know I  thought his brother was a douche because he acted like a douche from the second he opened his mouth but to me Lachlan seemed torn between two siblings’ worldviews and “trying out” his big brother’s worldview first.

[AstridM]

On 3/26/2025 at 1:16 PM, aghst said:

She's had some of the best lines but I'm only recalling the most recent ones

"You want to live in Taiwan?"

"We have to make her fear poverty"

 

 

And the line about her having to drink herself to sleep! 😆

On 3/26/2025 at 11:57 AM, iMonrey said:

Nope. I understand it feels that way and as I said earlier, we tend to throw that word around more liberally today than when the concept was first named. But incest does not include "any sexual activity." It applies specifically to intercourse.

noun

• sexual intercourse between closely related persons.
• the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.

I'm not trying to defend what happened between Lochlan and Saxon. It was definitely icky. It's just that technically, it's not incest. It feels incestuous but technically it isn't. I guess I'm just a stickler for grammar.

And here again the definition refers to sexual activity between a male and female. The word was invented to proscribe against sexual congress between family members that could result in a pregnancy.

I'm not sure why anyone wants to insist that Lochlan jerking off his brother is incest and I guess you're free to call it whatever you want. I'm just pointing out it's technically . . . not.

I agree. Words matter. I’m also annoyed when people want to call any picture of someone else a “selfie.” No, it’s not a selfie unless they took the picture OF themselves, ffs. LMAO. 😆

22 hours ago, Makai said:

Nope. Outside of some legal definitions (which can still vary by jurisdiction) there is no universally accepted definition of words. They vary depending on the source and words evolve over time as colloquial usage changes. 

The Oxford definition that you quoted says sexual activity and not sexual intercourse. As does the Cambridge dictionary and the APA. 

Actually that definition only says between two people who are very closely related in a family. If them being members of the opposite sex was a requirement it would be in the definition.

The examples are between opposite genders because we live in a heteronormative society which is reflected in our language. We are seeing that evolve as gender definitions are also changing. 

Because what happened in the episode feels every bit as incestuous as it would have if Saxon and Piper were involved. So it makes sense that many are labeling it as incest. 

I think activity can be described as “incestuous”, but technically not be incest.🤷‍♀️

Edited Thursday at 08:25 PM by AstridM

[AstridM]

22 hours ago, magdalene said:

Come on. Because if my hypothetical brother sexually molests me while I am drugged to the gills I am going to call it incest while I am devastated by it - no matter what the pedantic "official" definition calls it. If I am asking a thousand random people in the street what they would call it - besides an abomination - they are going to say incest.  

A lot of random people in the street couldn’t even tell you how many senators each state has, so 🤷‍♀️. Or how many total presidents the US has had, etc. People on the street were asked where chocolate milk came from once, and a number of them answered from “brown cows.” Many people on the street have no more than 4th grade educations. . .

19 hours ago, aghst said:

If a male family member molests a younger male member, how would he be prosecuted, for committing incest or just sexual assault, which would be the same as if it involved two unrelated people?

In any event, regardless of the legal definition, the point of the scene in the show is that both characters involved are very disturbed by it and it could have consequences for one or both of them.

Even if they don't bother to call the police on this event.

 

 

Potentially for some kind of sexual assault, although I don’t know that the case would even be prosecuted due to both people being drunk/drugged. 

[AstridM]

7 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

In a show like The White Lotus, which is filled with character studies that is nearly impossible. Part of the point of the show is to encourage different interpretations but the actors themselves certainly have special insight into what they were going for and I find that very valuable.

I also find it a great relief when an actor shoots down something the internet has seized and gone crazy with….something very black and white like did he take the pill or not. Lots of theories really went out into left field building off that and when you know it is absolutely not what happened the discussion can move on in a more productive direction.

Fully agree! I appreciate the clarity to shut down the internet nonsense.

[Makai]

59 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I agree. Words matter. I’m also annoyed when people want to call any picture of someone else a “selfie.” No, it’s not a selfie unless they took the picture OF themselves, ffs. LMAO. 😆

I get it but personally I stopped caring once I learned the definition of literally had been updated to also mean figuratively. 🤷‍♀️ Words matter but they aren’t static. 

2 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I think it’s differing interpretations because I never thought he thought his brother was a douche. I know I  thought his brother was a douche because he acted like a douche from the second he opened his mouth but to me Lachlan seemed torn between two siblings’ worldviews and “trying out” his big brother’s worldview first.

Same. Saxon is the sibling that has his parents’ approval and they want him to go down that path. I do think his behavior feels someone off but I think that is because he’s not being true to himself rather than him be calculating. 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, Makai said:

get it but personally I stopped caring once I learned the definition of literally had been updated to also mean figuratively.

I will NEVER accept this, lol. It’s just not in me.

[Sailorgirl26]

I would be surprised if the character outcome for Lochlan is different than what the actor said in the Vanity Fair article I shared earlier because 

Spoiler

given the prevalence of school shootings in the United States, I would be surprised if Mike White writes that a 17-year-old, high school senior is either a shooter or the victim of a shooting, regardless of the location or situation.  

Even if he did write it that way, I don't think TPTB would let it fly. 

I think we can safely assume that Lochlan makes it home. 

 

Edited Friday at 12:59 AM by Sailorgirl26

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/24/2025 at 9:44 AM, overtherainbow said:

Chloe and Chelsea were a little too smug in this episode at Saxon's disgust at the realization that he got more action from his little brother than the two women.

 

On 3/24/2025 at 2:06 PM, CarpeFelis said:

He didn’t. Chloe admitted she had sex with both brothers.

I heard that, too, but maybe she just said what she thought Greg expected to hear?  Saxon gave the impression that his only "action" was with his brother, but I guess that could be all they chose to show us for obvious reasons.

On 3/24/2025 at 9:05 AM, Madding crowd said:

Chelsea has no right to call someone else soulless though. She lives a life of luxury being supported by a rich, older man. She doesn’t seem to do much beyond lie by the pool.

She cares about other people, including Rick, Chloe, and the saleswoman in the shop that was robbed.

On 3/24/2025 at 10:48 AM, storyskip said:

Lorazepam (any of benzodiazepines) are a slippery slope, especially if taken for anxiety. Sure while you’re under their influence the world seems fine, but when you’re no longer under their influence, the anxiety comes back twice as hard. It’s part of why benzodiazepines are so addictive. 

I find it interesting that we have not seen Victoria going through any withdrawal after quitting cold turkey, considering she has been on it for a much longer time than Tim.

On 3/24/2025 at 8:32 PM, Snapdragon said:

I wish they'd just drop that going forward, as I feel it paints the writers into a corner.

Mike White is supposedly the sole writer, which is probably true, as no one else has a writer's credit.  He's making all the decisions.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Duke is not happy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/style/white-lotus-duke-crimes-suicide.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7E4.pS_J.bI6ehEanUwM_&smid=url-share

https://www.vulture.com/article/duke-university-says-the-white-lotus-went-too-far-with-merch.html

Edited Friday at 02:43 AM by ItCouldBeWorse

[Makai]

26 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Duke is not happy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/style/white-lotus-duke-crimes-suicide.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7E4.pS_J.bI6ehEanUwM_&smid=url-share

https://www.vulture.com/article/duke-university-says-the-white-lotus-went-too-far-with-merch.html

🙄 You’d think the vice president for communications, marketing and public affairs would be aware of the Streisand effect. 

50 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I heard that, too, but maybe she just said what she thought Greg expected to hear?  Saxon gave the impression that his only "action" was with his brother, but I guess that could be all they chose to show us for obvious reasons.

She said it to Chelsea so I doubt that she was lying. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 minutes ago, Makai said:

You’d think the vice president for communications, marketing and public affairs would be aware of the Streisand effect. 

Yup.

[T Summer]

Did anyone catch what the  drug was that they all took in ep. 5? Didn't Chloe refer to it as a sweetie? Which made me think it was a gummy... like a CBD gummy? but on the other hand it seemed like they swallowed something.

Chloe and Chelsea seemed amazingly clear-headed when they were discussing how they each felt about the possibility of cheating on their mates. Of course there was more drinking after that.

🤔

 

 

[catsitter]

48 minutes ago, T Summer said:

Did anyone catch what the  drug was that they all took in ep. 5? Didn't Chloe refer to it as a sweetie? Which made me think it was a gummy... like a CBD gummy? but on the other hand it seemed like they swallowed something.

Chloe and Chelsea seemed amazingly clear-headed when they were discussing how they each felt about the possibility of cheating on their mates. Of course there was more drinking after that.

🤔

 

 

I thought she said it was a mandy. (MDMA / Ecstasy). Also I was sure that Saxon didn't swallow his because he just put it in his mouth and didn't use a drink to wash it down!  I was totally wrong!

[MamaMax]

21 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I think it’s differing interpretations because I never thought he thought his brother was a douche. I know I  thought his brother was a douche because he acted like a douche from the second he opened his mouth but to me Lachlan seemed torn between two siblings’ worldviews and “trying out” his big brother’s worldview first.

Seems to me that Saxon is the golden child of the family, so he's emulating him for that reason.

3 hours ago, T Summer said:

Did anyone catch what the  drug was that they all took in ep. 5? Didn't Chloe refer to it as a sweetie? Which made me think it was a gummy... like a CBD gummy? but on the other hand it seemed like they swallowed something.

Chloe and Chelsea seemed amazingly clear-headed when they were discussing how they each felt about the possibility of cheating on their mates. Of course there was more drinking after that.

🤔

 

 

I feel like C & C are written as experienced, pro-level  party girls.  Saxon with his frat boy nonsense and young Lochlan are punching WAY out of their weight class

[RedHawk]

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Duke is not happy:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/style/white-lotus-duke-crimes-suicide.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7E4.pS_J.bI6ehEanUwM_&smid=url-share

https://www.vulture.com/article/duke-university-says-the-white-lotus-went-too-far-with-merch.html

Well, they shoukd go and win the NCAA men’s basketball tournament then. Make people forget about Tim Ratliff for a couple of days!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, MamaMax said:

Did anyone catch what the  drug was that they all took in ep. 5? Didn't Chloe refer to it as a sweetie? Which made me think it was a gummy... like a CBD gummy? but on the other hand it seemed like they swallowed something.

I heard that, too, but read somewhere that it was ecstasy.

[T Summer]

When I've seen a character in a drama take X such as when Samantha on Sex And The City took it and had sex with her paramour Richard, it's shown to slightly relax inhibitions and heighten one's enjoyment... not change their consciousness to the extent they'd  violate such fundamental   boundaries as depicted here.

but , IDK.🤷‍♀️

[Snazzy Daisy]

Saxon Discusses His Threesome with Chelsea & Chloe | The White Lotus Season 3 | Max

 

[Wicked]

They seemed to be drinking non stop as well, the alcohol can lead to the black outs.  But do you get black out drunk and then later remember what happened while you were black out drunk??  I feel like that would be lost time or at best a very unreliable memory

[Sailorgirl26]

7 hours ago, Wicked said:

They seemed to be drinking non stop as well, the alcohol can lead to the black outs.  But do you get black out drunk and then later remember what happened while you were black out drunk??  I feel like that would be lost time or at best a very unreliable memory

Yes. Sadly, embarrassingly, horrifyingly, and sometimes entertainingly, things do come back . . . . or so I've heard . . . and typically, there is usually someone who will confirm your hazy memories . . . or fill in some blanks. . . not that I would know any of this firsthand. . . .  😇 😅😎😈 

Edited Saturday at 07:56 PM by Sailorgirl26

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/27/2025 at 12:12 PM, Conotocarious said:

I think it’s differing interpretations because I never thought he thought his brother was a douche. I know I  thought his brother was a douche because he acted like a douche from the second he opened his mouth but to me Lachlan seemed torn between two siblings’ worldviews and “trying out” his big brother’s worldview first.

My impression of Lochlan is that he doesn’t really know what he wants and is easily led. He readily agrees to come to dinner and back Piper up with the parents when she tells them she wants to stay at the monastery for a year. But later when Saxon wants to stay and party on the boat, he goes along with it without a second thought. I think the reason he tends to follow Saxon more than Piper is because Saxon is an obnoxious bully who’ll give him a hard time if he doesn’t, so he takes the path of least resistance.

[AstridM]

9 hours ago, Wicked said:

They seemed to be drinking non stop as well, the alcohol can lead to the black outs.  But do you get black out drunk and then later remember what happened while you were black out drunk??  I feel like that would be lost time or at best a very unreliable memory

Sometimes . . . 

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Yes. Sadly, embarrassingly, horrifyingly, and sometimes entertainingly, things do come back . . . . or so I've heard . . . and typically, there is usually someone who will confirm your hazy memories . . . or fill in some blanks. . . not that I would know any of this firsthand. . . .  😇 😅😎😈 

Yep 😂

[ItCouldBeWorse]

This is the article I read, although I don't know how the writer can be so sure:

https://screenrant.com/what-drug-lochlan-saxon-take-white-lotus-season-3/#:~:text=The Small Pills Gave The Ratliff Boys A Quick High&text=After being left as the,sense emulated in the episode.