S18.E16: The Experts Have Questions

[Retired at last]

4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

On another subject I find it interesting that Juan and Karla never say how they feel about each other and the experts never really ask them deep questions. I have no idea if they find each other attractive or like each other’s personality.

Juan has said many times that he is not attracted to Karla. He has said this around her and said they were working on "attraction." I think he is amused by her and he did seem to enjoy it when she was asking him questions about making a business plan, although she didn't know what one was. He has been a good sport trying the things she enjoys. He has said many times that he is there to have fun and she has mentioned that he doesn't seem to be affectionate with her and doesn't have any physical intimacy with her.

[Lindz]

22 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Not David pulling his old “if you don’t believe me, that’s on you” line to the experts! 

That line is irritating as hell, but really, how do you answer, "How do I know you're telling the truth now? Why should I believe you?" Those questions suck too! Like. PC shouldn't have even bothered asking that. If you have to ask, you shouldn't even be dealing with that person. Someone should have the self-respect to walk away. Well. The liar wouldn't have self-respect. Gotta give it to him, he doesn't run away from the hot seat with his lies. That isn't this situation, but still. PC should've said they're known liars with ZERO integrity, good luck to them!

[Chatty Cake]

I do think the ladies could have pointed out to Michelle that she never liked David and should quit acting like a victim when she treated him like crap. They need to stop coddling her! She may be mad that David turned his attention to Madison but that’s only because she wanted to be the one to dump him. She probably feels bad that David turned his attention to Madison.
The ladies should also point out that unlike Michelle, Madison kept acting like Allen had a chance albeit a small one. They should also tell her that they know she is full of shit, knew right away that text was for her nasty ass and that they knew she was out drinking with him, having sex and stuffing that enormous mouth full of tacos afterward!

[JayDub1987]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

If Karla was sunbathing topless around the other husbands, then it's something that would have stood out to me, since that's definitely not a social norm in American culture. I still maintain that it didn't happen unless I'm proven otherwise.

I have no memory of this either; just one person on here saying it happened. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember it either. Seems like the kind of thing I would remember, but maybe I was zoned out?

[Lindz]

8 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

She probably feels bad that David turned his attention to Madison.

Nah. Doubt it. She didn't care about him dealing with other women. I guess the issue was he lied & kept lying to her face about that text. Insulting her intelligence. Disrupted her putting on a show of her "trying." It gave her a new storyline, but it couldn't go beyond that because he kept lying. If he'd immediately fessed up, what would've happened? Would she have used that as her out?

[JenE4]

6 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

I have no memory of this either; just one person on here saying it happened. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember it either. Seems like the kind of thing I would remember, but maybe I was zoned out?

Yeah, I also don’t think this happened. I think she may have said to the ladies, should we swim topless? And they all said nooooooo, and they did not. Karla had some odd/possibly inappropriate conversations on the group honeymoon trip about vaginas absorbing life forces of their partners during sex and everyone was thoroughly confused, so I can see why the poster came away with the impression that Karla was sexually inappropriate in front of the men. However, knowing her “woo-woo” personality now, we realize this is just Karla and it was all innocent enough.

[Racj82]

28 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Nah. Doubt it. She didn't care about him dealing with other women. I guess the issue was he lied & kept lying to her face about that text. Insulting her intelligence. Disrupted her putting on a show of her "trying." It gave her a new storyline, but it couldn't go beyond that because he kept lying. If he'd immediately fessed up, what would've happened? Would she have used that as her out?

Michelle literally had an issue with him talking with exes. That was outside of the texts.

And yes would have used it as her out. She would also still be playing the ultimate victim as well.

[Chatty Cake]

26 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Nah. Doubt it. She didn't care about him dealing with other women. I guess the issue was he lied & kept lying to her face about that text. Insulting her intelligence. Disrupted her putting on a show of her "trying." It gave her a new storyline, but it couldn't go beyond that because he kept lying. If he'd immediately fessed up, what would've happened? Would she have used that as her out?

I don’t know. She knew he was lying, she said it time after time. Why didn’t she leave him for that? I know it made for more drama for the show so there’s that.

By the way, does anyone else think Allen has looked hotter in these last two episodes? David on the other hand looks like a sloppy mess. 

I thought it was cool of Allen to bring his own spices. I’m sure he brought groceries too since he cooked for everyone. 

[Retired at last]

I don't remember anything about Karla going topless, but if she did, it would be very much within her whole persona and I am sure she is very comfortable in her own body and this would be no big deal. Especially remembering her bus lecture on the power of the penis, or whatever it was.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

Juan has said many times that he is not attracted to Karla. He has said this around her and said they were working on "attraction." I think he is amused by her and he did seem to enjoy it when she was asking him questions about making a business plan, although she didn't know what one was. He has been a good sport trying the things she enjoys. He has said many times that he is there to have fun and she has mentioned that he doesn't seem to be affectionate with her and doesn't have any physical intimacy with her.

Ok-I don’t remember any scenes of them sitting down with the experts and saying they didn’t find each other attractive or suited to themselves. I do remember him saying he was in it to have fun and they both said they were giving it a chance but I don’t remember specific scenes where Juan or Karla said they asked for a different type, wanted someone taller, shorter etc. 

[Chatty Cake]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Ok-I don’t remember any scenes of them sitting down with the experts and saying they didn’t find each other attractive or suited to themselves. I do remember him saying he was in it to have fun and they both said they were giving it a chance but I don’t remember specific scenes where Juan or Karla said they asked for a different type, wanted someone taller, shorter etc. 

Karla has said she wished for kisses and cuddles but Juan just ignores her. I don’t know if he’s trying to get into acting or more modeling jobs but the dude has zero interest in a marriage. Getting married at first sight isn’t supposed to be  “fun” but more and more couples seem to be treating it like an acting gig. 

[Retired at last]

I don't think that Juan was a good candidate for this show, other than his looks, because he is so focused on his business. IF Karla had been more focused and down to earth, he may have been more attracted, but he could tell that she was very high maintenance (especially when she quit her job to open her own business but didn't have a clue how to do that). So, he was there to get business and have fun and make a little money. She wanted someone to cuddle with and support her as she went into her many different ideas for her own businesses. 

Neither of them have ever discussed the type of person they wanted, I don't think. Just that they aren't feeling attraction - well, Juan isn't so Karla mostly stayed quiet and looked sad.

[Lindz]

39 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Michelle literally had an issue with him talking with exes. That was outside of the texts.

I think that was an act. She didn't want him, so why care? I think she was trying to figure out who he texted, just to know & to make him look bad. Him revealing talking & meeting other women helped that. A "wife" should be upset about that, so she was. What's she really "mad" about? He's not sitting around suffering in their crap marriage alone anymore & finding happiness elsewhere or he'd exposed that he's pursing someone else, then lied about it to make her look stupid? On the after show, he said she asked if he was texting other women & couldn't care less who. He's a liar though, so.

[Crashcourse]

Even though Juan and Karla probably won't stay together, I do like that they've been basically drama free and don't hate each other.  If/when they separate, I wish them luck in finding someone else.

[Lindz]

Kinda fitting the retreat ended with the same disappointment for Tom as the end of the honeymoon. Will Cam ever stop teasing lingerie? 😂😂 Strange that she's still dangling that carrot even tho they're having sex. What's it matter now? 😕 Is it the same one she mentioned pre-honeymoon? Has Tom not seen any lingerie?!! Lol

Edited Yest. at 12:31 AM by Lindz

[Racj82]

55 minutes ago, Lindz said:

I think that was an act. She didn't want him, so why care? I think she was trying to figure out who he texted, just to know & to make him look bad. Him revealing talking & meeting other women helped that. A "wife" should be upset about that, so she was. What's she really "mad" about? He's not sitting around suffering in their crap marriage alone anymore & finding happiness elsewhere or he'd exposed that he's pursing someone else, then lied about it to make her look stupid? On the after show, he said she asked if he was texting other women & couldn't care less who. He's a liar though, so.

My point is that she said it. So it is out there.

None of this actually upsets her except for the man she found to be bum pulling someone else and people not believing her. She doesn't care about David or anything he has done. Its all about her.

[atomic]

Ok, I realize now where the poster got the whole thing about Karla being topless from. I went back and quickly perused timestamps throughout the main honeymoon episode to see if there were any shots of a blurred out Karla. No dice, but then I watched a bit of the Afterparty from that episode because it piqued my interest seeing Allen and David on it together. Karla was not actually topless on the honeymoon, but Allen said he got a glimpse of a nip slip when they were all out on the boat. Hardly the same thing as taking her top off in a co-ed setting of new friends, but there's your answer to that.

Pretty interesting watching the interactions in that Afterparty episode with the benefit of hindsight involved. They forced Allen to watch the clip of Madison and David talking about their relationships on the treadmill and he was clearly pissed (naturally so). Karla also goes into another kooky diatribe about how you should be very intentional about sex and not insert your magic stick into any random temple, which was clearly a pointed message at David sitting right next to her. 😭

Edited Yest. at 01:06 AM by atomic

[Elizzikra]

Quote

She may be mad that David turned his attention to Madison but that’s only because she wanted to be the one to dump him. She probably feels bad that David turned his attention to Madison.

I think she is angry because he lied, repeatedly. He nattered on and on about how important it was for her to be honest with him and he was never honest with her.

Quote

Even though Juan and Karla probably won't stay together, I do like that they've been basically drama free and don't hate each other.  If/when they separate, I wish them luck in finding someone else.

I think it makes for pretty boring television but I like it too. 

Quote

When she quit her job to open her own business but didn't have a clue how to do that

I quibble with this. I don't think that Karla "quit her job to start her own business." I think she quit/was fired and absent any other plan, decided now was a good time to "start her own business."

Quote

I thought it was cool of Allen to bring his own spices. I’m sure he brought groceries too since he cooked for everyone. 

I did too. Rentals rarely have anything other than questionable salt and pepper. He knew he would be cooking for the group and he planned. Awesome!

Quote

insert your magic stick into any random temple

I feel like this could be David's next flirty text to some random woman, "you look so fine I want to insert my magic stick into your temple."

[call me ishmael]

20 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Why do the newlyweds have to live with each other?  If they didnt all together with each other, this would have never happened.  David would have flirted with a different woman outside the cast.  So ultimately its the producer's fault.  

You are right.  David had no agency in any of this.  The moment he was put in the same building as Madison, they were both compelled to lie and cheat.  Makes total sense to me.

[Elizzikra]

12 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

You are right.  David had no agency in any of this.  The moment he was put in the same building as Madison, they were both compelled to lie and cheat.  Makes total sense to me.

I hate it when that happens. My current dwelling compels me to eat ice cream for dinner every night. It's a nightmare :)

[Chatty Cake]

21 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Why do the newlyweds have to live with each other?  If they didnt all together with each other, this would have never happened.  David would have flirted with a different woman outside the cast.  So ultimately it’s the producer's fault.  

I do think the drinking and partying as a group and often without their spouses isn’t doing them any favors. Still, they should be able to live in the same building and resist each other. I guess some women can’t say no to a poofy front ponytail wearing, basement dwelling, party boy, lying man child if he’s glistening at the gym in a baggy tank and shorts with his ex-girlfriend’s name peaking out. 
 

[Chatty Cake]

The experts requested another meeting between Ikechi and Emem I guess for filler and ratings. Pastor Cal wanted to know if there was a chance of salvaging the mess that was their marriage? Where has he been? I thought the read she prepared for him with the folder wasn’t that good. 
I understood why Allen ripped the pictures and burnt her vows but he should have put it all in the garbage instead of leaving it out. Did he really break the mug?  I don’t blame him for not wanting those items out there. Madison of course couldn’t call a friend for sympathy fast enough. The idiot friend had to indulge her and call Allen a psycho when Madison was the one pretending there was a chance for her and Allen while sneaking out with a married man that Allen considered a friend. 

Edited Yest. at 12:35 PM by Chatty Cake

[After7Only]

16 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Michelle literally had an issue with him talking with exes. That was outside of the texts

Michelle had an issue with his coffee dates with his tinder friends.   But more in a “do you think that’s appropriate?   It’s not something I would do..”. kind of way.  she wasn’t really mad and she seemed to let it go.   We are only talking 8 weeks. David talked a lot about being all in….and trying his best, but his actions indicate he gave up pretty early and sought validation elsewhere.   Michelle didn’t like him, but she at least gave him the respect not to openly pursue other men.   

[atomic]

That clip of Madison looking David directly in the eye during her raunchy honeymoon toast...she was sending him a clear message and invitation right from the jump. I think it's possible that the night Allen went back to his room alone (which they discussed on that Afterparty I went back and watched) that David and Madison stayed out dancing, hooking up, and eating tacos into the late hours of the night. I've always found it way too strange how Madison was clearly into Allen during the wedding, but the switch flipped so drastically after that. In hindsight it was probably never really about Allen's clothes and teeth, but the fact that she was in an affair with David all along (especially when you look at David's own ratty clothes and jacked up teeth).

[SummerDreams]

I didn't understand correctly, there were some room cameras showing three times of David and Michelle returning to their rooms at the same time? Is this what you understood as well?

This means that the producers knew what was going on.

[Retired at last]

Yep, they knew all along. It's kind of funny that people are now going back and watching from the beginning to see when it became clear that this was happening. It looks like it was pretty early. We know they started working out during the honeymoon. I don't know if there were tacos at that point.

[atomic]

What Madison told David with her eyes in that moment:

[Empress1]

I hope someone calls Madison on the confrontational, smug “I got your man” way she speaks to Michelle. It looks like she does it in front of the group next episode. Michelle didn’t want David but that doesn’t make Madison’s actions appropriate. She was much more contrite with Karla and Camille than she was with the woman whose husband she was messing with, which is interesting.

[Alexander Pope]

7 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I hope someone calls Madison on the confrontational, smug “I got your man” way she speaks to Michelle. It looks like she does it in front of the group next episode. Michelle didn’t want David but that doesn’t make Madison’s actions appropriate. She was much more contrite with Karla and Camille than she was with the woman whose husband she was messing with, which is interesting.

I couldn't agree more.  I think they started up on the honeymoon and that his constant griping to her about how cold Michelle was (both David and Madison agree that they complained to each other and advised each other, LOL) made Madison feel justified in betraying her. 

[Racj82]

20 hours ago, atomic said:

Ok, I realize now where the poster got the whole thing about Karla being topless from. I went back and quickly perused timestamps throughout the main honeymoon episode to see if there were any shots of a blurred out Karla. No dice, but then I watched a bit of the Afterparty from that episode because it piqued my interest seeing Allen and David on it together. Karla was not actually topless on the honeymoon, but Allen said he got a glimpse of a nip slip when they were all out on the boat. Hardly the same thing as taking her top off in a co-ed setting of new friends, but there's your answer to that.

Pretty interesting watching the interactions in that Afterparty episode with the benefit of hindsight involved. They forced Allen to watch the clip of Madison and David talking about their relationships on the treadmill and he was clearly pissed (naturally so). Karla also goes into another kooky diatribe about how you should be very intentional about sex and not insert your magic stick into any random temple, which was clearly a pointed message at David sitting right next to her. 😭

They had to blur out her non existent cleavage multiple times during the honeymoon episodes. So, everyone in the cast would have gotten a glimpse at some point. I never thought it was more than that was confused why it was a topic.

[Racj82]

5 hours ago, After7Only said:

Michelle had an issue with his coffee dates with his tinder friends.   But more in a “do you think that’s appropriate?   It’s not something I would do..”. kind of way.  she wasn’t really mad and she seemed to let it go.   We are only talking 8 weeks. David talked a lot about being all in….and trying his best, but his actions indicate he gave up pretty early and sought validation elsewhere.   Michelle didn’t like him, but she at least gave him the respect not to openly pursue other men.   

She never let anything go. At any point. She just kept building up reasons to not like him. This was just another one. She was mad at him the whole time for existing and having the nerve to live in his parents basement. Everything else was an add on.

And I don't side with David. This whole thing is just nonsense on her end. She wasn't trying. Doesn't actual care. Never did. David is just in the wrong for not waiting. He was in some way involved with someone still actively in a relationship even if that was BS. There was actual hope there.

I'm also down for the takedown of Madison and David for being impulsive and dumb. But, the experts can miss me with making Michele "still trying" a part of the issue. She was not. They all know that.

4 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

I didn't understand correctly, there were some room cameras showing three times of David and Michelle returning to their rooms at the same time? Is this what you understood as well?

This means that the producers knew what was going on.

They were filming them the whole time. Of course they new. That isn't up for debate.

[Empress1]

15 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

They had to blur out her non existent cleavage multiple times during the honeymoon episodes. So, everyone in the cast would have gotten a glimpse at some point. I never thought it was more than that was confused why it was a topic.

I assume Karla doesn’t wear a bra because she really doesn’t need to, so accidental flashes are probably not uncommon when she wears low necklines.

[Chatty Cake]

18 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

 

I'm also down for the takedown of Madison and David for being impulsive and dumb. But, the experts can miss me with making Michele "still trying" a part of the issue. She was not. They all know that.

 

It annoyed me when Pastor Cal claimed that Michelle had turned a corner. What was he talking about? There were times she wasn’t questioning him and spoke to him in a friendly manner but she never said she was feeling attracted to him. She never admired anything about him. I have no idea why Cal said that except to guilt David into feeling bad for claiming it wasn’t a real marriage. 

[Retired at last]

Cal is useless. He hears what he wants to hear and ignores the truth, even when it is staring him in the face. I seem to remember that when Cal met with Madison and Allen, Madison did all the talking about how they are moving forward all the time. Allen never challenged that, that I recall.

[princelina]

4 hours ago, Racj82 said:

They were filming them the whole time. Of course they new. That isn't up for debate.

And this is my problem with the "experts" - I don't expect them to look through hours of film, but they should check in with the people who do to see if there's anything interesting going on.  And it's kind of obvious to me that they don't.  

[DrewPaul2010]

On 2/20/2025 at 6:18 PM, Elizzikra said:

I hate it when that happens. My current dwelling compels me to eat ice cream for dinner every night. It's a nightmare :)

You too?

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I hope someone calls Madison on the confrontational, smug “I got your man” way she speaks to Michelle. It looks like she does it in front of the group next episode. Michelle didn’t want David but that doesn’t make Madison’s actions appropriate. She was much more contrite with Karla and Camille than she was with the woman whose husband she was messing with, which is interesting.

I'm sure her response is you can have him...

On 2/20/2025 at 6:37 PM, Chatty Cake said:

 I guess some women can’t say no to a poofy front ponytail wearing, basement dwelling, party boy, lying man child if he’s glistening at the gym in a baggy tank and shorts with his ex-girlfriend’s name peaking out. 
 

Had I only known that when growing up. How about lying and cheating does that attract hot women?

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

And this is my problem with the "experts" - I don't expect them to look through hours of film, but they should check in with the people who do to see if there's anything interesting going on.  And it's kind of obvious to me that they don't.  

I look at the experts as people there to keep the show going. Keep these people together during filming. They aren't there for the contestants. They will almost never tell anyone to call it quits.

[princelina]

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I look at the experts as people there to keep the show going. Keep these people together during filming. They aren't there for the contestants. They will almost never tell anyone to call it quits.

I look at them as fakers who are there to "act like" marriage counselors.  I know they're probably stuck with who they get, but if they took an actual interest rather than just doling out trite generic "advice" they might have a more interesting show!

[LennieBriscoe]

The "experts" are like:

"Sally wants children, but Tom doesn't.  Sally is religious, and Tom promotes atheism. She likes plain food, he has quite the enviable spice collection. Sally wants a man who is financially responsible,  but Tom loves to gamble in the local casino. She hates dogs, he has two pitbulls. 

We think they would make a perfect match because they both like good weather." 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by LennieBriscoe

[seacliffsal]

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

The "experts" are like:

"Sally wants children, but Tom doesn't.  Sally is religious, and Tom promotes atheism. She likes plain food, he has quite the enviable spice collection. Sally wants a man who is financially responsible,  but Tom loves to gamble in the local casino. She hates dogs, he has two pitbulls. 

We think they would make a perfect match because they both like good weather." 

 

Don't forget 'they'll help each other grow' along with 'opposites attract'....