S18.E15: Cheat and Retreat

[Shauna]

I really hate KNP's baby voice on the Afterparty.  And when she says, "understood".  And, while I'm on a roll, the way she holds her cards to promote the name of the show.  Stupid.

[DrewPaul2010]

20 hours ago, Bees52 said:

Michelle was so eager to bust Madison as the one cheating with David, I don't think she really considered Allen's feelings for his wife before bringing her speculations to him. 😔

Except her speculations were spot on. She saved Allen two more weeks of pretending and being strung along by Madison who had no intention of coming clean. She was going to wait until decision day. I assume she is a pariah at this point...

[DrewPaul2010]

19 hours ago, Vanderboom said:

Michelle's "gut suspicion" is probably producer intervention, right? Like the "caught cheating" question during the game. I'm annoyed that she dragged Allen into it by grilling him about Madison. Does it suck that David and Madison aren't telling the truth? Yes, but Michelle shouldn't accuse people of lying just because they don't respond to her statements the way she expects them to.

Finally, a faint glimmer of chemistry between Karla and Juan. Any minute now, they'll give in to their passion and exchange a light peck on the cheek. And who let Juan bring a guitar?

2 of the couples still have hope. I don't like Michelle but she went about uncovering the truth about as straight forward as possible. She confronted the two people involved. I started calling her Mrs Columbo. She kept putting those little clues together and got to the bottom of it.

I have no sympathy or empathy for Madison. I won't say she's evil, she just doesn't have any redeeming virtue or integrity. Knowing full well Allen was into her, she made no commitment or attempt at making her marriage work. Allen is to blame also because it was obvious she was just jerking him around. And she jerked around the counselors and her fellow 'friends'. She only told the truth because she had to.

I have a little more sympathy for David but not much. Only because there was no marriage for him to betray. Michelle was done with him before they even left the chapel. I believe initially he chatted with Madison looking for some advice. Clearly Madison didn't think of herself as a married woman.

As for Madison and David's new relationship? You better tuck in your penis because David she will leave you the same way she found you. First conflict with you and she'll be out with her friends...may even call Allen just to jerk his chain some more. Same goes for Madison...you're with a man who even when married will have eyes for someone else. However I suspect there spat of lust will soon expire shortly after the show ends.

 

 

[DrewPaul2010]

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I actually think it is kind of amusing that almost all of us here have the same thoughts about Michelle - she is just looking for a way to not get the villain edit, but it backfired. Most of us still don't like her or her attitude and don't have empathy towards her.

She is not a sympathetic character. She told Allen not out of concern but to see if he thought about it he might come to the same conclusion. Seeing how she came up aces on all her suspicions didn't exactly backfire. On the moral scale I find Madison to be the most despicable. She's not a teenager. She's wise to the world and can tell when a guy is falling for her. She couldn't even wait for 8 weeks. The first time I saw Madison and David in the gym it looked to me like she was emitting pheromones into the air. What a vile person.

David...don't be an idiot, don't follow in Allen's footsteps. You are the muse of the moment that will fizzle out soon after the show is over.

I hope Allen can wait a few months and then be really selective.

 

[DrewPaul2010]

I didn't find Juan's speeches to be very helpful at the moment. I'm sure he thinks he was saying the right thing but what Juan should have exhibited was more empathy. The speeches Juan gave would be appropriate in a  month or so if Allen is still in a funk.

This was the only episode I watched all the way through.

[DrewPaul2010]

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Madison and David couldn't wait until after Decision Day?  And why did Madison have to keep leading Allen on?  And, she is full of it if one of her 'requirements' is that a man dresses well.  Allen totally bought all the clothes she liked (and wore them at the retreat), while David dresses like a slob IMO.  Like another poster, I couldn't believe that Madison didn't tell Allen and left that to David.

She led him on as a face saving gesture. It wasn't because she had hope or thought she might develop feelings at some point. She was 3/4 of the way out the door. The so called experts called her out for staying out so late.

I believe her attraction to David is purely situational being in this surreal thing of being married at first sight and being on TV almost daily. When the situation goes away so will any interest in David. He doesn't offer her anything. He has little money, lives with his parents. He thinks he is a great guy with a big heart who lies incessantly to his new wife and starts a new romance. Platonic relationship my eye. That said Michelle checked out of the marriage the day of.

To all future married at first sight people. If your spouse is willing to admit she or he isn't attracted to you...they mean it and it ain't gonna work. No matter how may times they told the experts looks aren't that important. Its like going to an interview with a front tooth missing...you're not getting the job.

[DrewPaul2010]

So clearly David and Michelle's marriage is kaput, finito, over and out. On a happy note, the city of Chicago is offering Michelle a position as a detective on the police force.

[kristen111]

4 hours ago, Lindz said:

Good God that took so long! So drawn out! Only thing missing was Michelle interrogating the both of them together! 😂 She should've taken Madison's phone to look through it. Suspicious when they hold it & choose what to show. I'd say include Allen in that interrogation, but he doesn't want to know so he wouldn't ask for any specific details. Michelle is a top notch investigator! She should open an agency! Just needs to condense the interrogation to one interview... They teased a couple swap so does that mean she goes with Allen? 🤔 Or maybe they didn't mean that. Maybe it's just D&M. Didn't I see someone "propose" to Em? I thought that was a joke or something... WHY NOW??? So late & close to DD? I mean, Michelle was rapidly closing in. Pretty much done investigating and had her mind made up about what went down. She couldn't have dragged that out much longer, then again this was dragged out so long. Would she have eventually said, "You're still lying, I want a divorce."? David's such a punk, I doubt he'd request a divorce before DD. He still didn't say why he would've texted Madison that. What was the plan?!! Continue being questioned by Michelle til DD? Progress with Madison on the low? I can't with these fools! Ike better sit there & listen to everything Em has to say!

That phone business is baloney.  I delete certain messages all the time on my phone.  Madison is full of it.  Btw, she should get rid of those ratty long extensions that fall to her ass.  They look ridiculous and fake.

[DrewPaul2010]

The more I think about it the more I despise David. I liked him at first in some ways because he reminded me of Samoan people I have met who are so giving and generous. But the text he sent to Madison was clearly sexual in nature and he felt comfortable to send her such a message. She must have known it was intended for her when she over heard the conversation about it. No one sends a message like that minus any sexual banter. Michelle was right about Madison's response. It was like oh my what a naughty boy! She almost looked like she was flattered. 

Madison must (assuming she's intelligent) thought what an idiot David is sending a text like that to his wife. The guy can't even cheat without screwing it up. This will be a source of contention if she and David move forward. David had caused her a great deal of stress and humiliation because of his utter stupidity. Even his lie sucked. He should have said nothing else was working so I thought I'd say something a little off kilter to change the mood. I remember seeing you in a bikini and wow. I see it didn't work but I was willing to try anything. Probably wouldn't believe that either but at least it would be a flattering lie.

I lay odds by re-union time Madison and David will not be an item.

 

[atomic]

In light of David's big lie being exposed, I whipped this up for y'all while making some Valentines for the kids at the non-profit where I volunteer. Feel free to use for that special someone in your life. 🥰

[Hip-to-be-Square]

I waited 15 episodes for Allen to drop kick that kitchen cabinet 😄🙌💥💯! I'm sure Madison will enjoy quiet sex in David's parents' basement and tripping over the kegerator when she needs to pee at night.  Get ready for smoke-stained basement walls and cheering David on while he plays darts for hours, Madison 🥴. Onward and upward, Allen! 🙌😉 The $3,000 worth of stylish clothing can be worn for a new girlfriend- a girl who doesn't have My Little Pony clip on hair extensions and an addiction to exercise. 

[ECM1231]

48 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

That phone business is baloney.  I delete certain messages all the time on my phone

THANK YOU, @kristen111. I kept shouting at the TV that it's not suspect to delete text messages. I delete plenty, all of the time, and I am not trying to hide anything.

Madison and David are sleazy. I do think that attraction can grow over time, but not if one is actually repulsed by their partner. I can't fault Madison for not being attracted to Allen, but she should have either left the show early or waited out the 8 weeks to start something up with David. 

I was somewhat surprised to hear Juancho say on After-party, that David and Allen had the strongest friendship of the cast. That makes what happened sting even more, imo. My heart broke for Allen. He wanted this marriage to work so badly, and twisted himself into a pretzel to make Madison happy. 

Edited February 13 by ECM1231

[DrewPaul2010]

41 minutes ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

I waited 15 episodes for Allen to drop kick that kitchen cabinet 😄🙌💥💯! I'm sure Madison will enjoy quiet sex in David's parents' basement and tripping over the kegerator when she needs to pee at night.  Get ready for smoke-stained basement walls and cheering David on while he plays darts for hours, Madison 🥴. Onward and upward, Allen! 🙌😉 The $3,000 worth of stylish clothing can be worn for a new girlfriend- a girl who doesn't have My Little Pony clip on hair extensions and an addiction to exercise. 

I agree keep the new threads. A worthwhile investment with all the chicks who will soon be calling you.

At some point in her life after she's gone through a few more marriages Madison may realize she left a man who truly loved her and would have been faithful and taken care of her and that somethings matter more than instant attraction. Allen isn't a bad looking guy.

 

[After7Only]

10 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I actually think it is kind of amusing that almost all of us here have the same thoughts about Michelle - she is just looking for a way to not get the villain edit, but it backfired. Most of us still don't like her or her attitude and don't have empathy towards her.

I agree that Michelle was awful to David at the beginning.   But she was always very honest.   I think her issue was the lying, not the cheating.   When David told her about the coffee dates with ex tinder dates.   She wasn’t happy, but she let it go.

But the repeated lying to her face, even when she pointed out specifically why she felt he was lying was triggering to her and she couldn’t let it go.   She seems to value honesty.   And David was “playing in her face” as the kids like to say 😀 I don’t think she did it for the edit.  
 

Hated that David talked to Allen instead of Madison.   Very cowardly on her part.   

 

 

[Empress1]

25 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

I delete plenty, all of the time, and I am not trying to hide anything

I delete them manually because I don’t want to lose the ones from my late father. Before he passed, I had them set to auto-delete after a year. I’d find it more odd for someone to keep every text message ever. (I’m pretty quick to delete messages and contacts from men I’m no longer involved with, once we stop seeing each other.)

[ECM1231]

@Empress1, I delete manually, too; I'm not tech savvy enough to even know that there is an auto-delete setting.

[Lindz]

Someone get Allen to a rage room STAT!!! 😅 The poor dear's punching stuff in that mansion!!!

[Chatty Cake]

That was an intense episode. I felt bad watching the situation unfold in front of Allen. I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said by everyone here. 
I still have a bit of hope for Camille and Thomas. 
I am surprised that Juan and Karla still sleep in the same bed because there doesn’t seem to be any non forced, non tantric affection between them.

[sauce62]

Juan is handsome (although something seems off with his teeth) but not the brightest bulb. And ugh his singing! Karla was a good sport.

David is so clueless. Talking about what a great guy he is. How about you don't, David. Madison isn't a gang for brains either. They both kind of resemble each other with their puggish faces. I see their attraction.

Michelle may be a bitch on wheels, but I applaud her ability to not back down. I was impressed.

Allen will look back on this and laugh but first he will cry and many shall comfort him. I hope his hand is okay. 

[Elizzikra]

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I actually think it is kind of amusing that almost all of us here have the same thoughts about Michelle - she is just looking for a way to not get the villain edit, but it backfired. Most of us still don't like her or her attitude and don't have empathy towards her.

I'm an outlier. I don't love Michelle on the show but I like her on AfterParty. I don't think that her concerns about David were invalid. I guess I fault her for not being willing or able to overlook his appearance, particularly when he looks like what she described being attracted to, but she isn't the first or last person on this show who isn't able to get past initial appearances. Bottom line, I think she was always honest with David about what her issues were and he was always blathering on about how important it was to him that she be honest. Ironic then, that he made lying to her a way of life.

I agree that there was no hope for Michelle and David's relationship but there was a marriage. We all saw it. There was a commitment to be on the show and to be married for the eight weeks. David was married, even if he was "not getting what he needed" in the marriage. I think that Michelle is justified in her anger, not only at his lies but his repeated lie upon lie and insistence that she was the reason for his lying and his bad behavior. I'd be pissed too. Honestly, I was bored by the time the entire thing had played itself out but I give her credit for getting to the bottom of the situation. I saw no pleasure in her telling Allen. I did see some satisfaction in her finally getting the truth out of David. 

Most of my sympathy is for Allen though. I think he is a good guy and more than many of the participants in the show, I think he wanted this to work out. He was smitten with Madison and he really tried. I think he is a great catch and I'm pretty confident that he will be snapped up pretty quickly when he is ready. I hope he chooses wisely and carefully.

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I delete plenty, all of the time, and I am not trying to hide anything

Genuine question - why? I never delete anything unless I'm hiding something and that's rare (not as interesting as it sounds; sometimes my kid looks for something on my phone (with my consent) and I don't want her to see things like "who's purchasing what birthday gift" text exchanges with my husband). Otherwise why delete? It's not like I'm in danger of running out of storage space or something.

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I still have a bit of hope for Camille and Thomas. 

If any of you are old enough to remember When Harry Met Sally, there is this scene where Jess and Marie are sitting in bed, having just witnessed the aftermath of Harry and Sally's relationship and Marie looks at Jess and says "please tell me I will never be out there (the dating scene) again." Tom and Camille remind me of this scene. I think they both want to be married to someone who will be good to them and a good parent for any kids they might have. I think they like each other enough and are attracted to each other enough and want the same things enough to make this work. And I think they are both done with looking.

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I really hate KNP's baby voice on the Afterparty.  And when she says, "understood".  And, while I'm on a roll, the way she holds her cards to promote the name of the show.  Stupid.

I mean, it's her voice. What is she supposed to do about it? It's high pitched but I actually think the content of what she says is pretty spot on. I usually agree with her. And I think she does a good job of pushing for the truth but not necessarily revealing any biases she might have. I am sure that she likes some cast members more than others. Overall, I think she is a good host for this. As for the cards - she has a director. They tell her to hold the cards facing out and they probably re-shoot if she doesn't get it right. So....

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I didn't find Juan's speeches to be very helpful at the moment. I'm sure he thinks he was saying the right thing but what Juan should have exhibited was more empathy. The speeches Juan gave would be appropriate in a  month or so if Allen is still in a funk.

I think Juan and Emem were concerned that Allen would do something stupid in the moment - most probably drive when he had been drinking. Less likely - take a swing at David (not that Allen strikes me as a violent guy but he was upset and David was being a total dick). 

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But the text he sent to Madison was clearly sexual in nature and he felt comfortable to send her such a message. 

She was pretty comfortable receiving it (not that she did, but she was all 12-year-old giggly about it when she found out it was intended for her). I wonder if he had some way to know she would be receptive - like perhaps he had said or texted something to her in the past that was similar and she received well? And according to Karla they disappeared for awhile at the club to "look for Madison's phone?" 

[ECM1231]

20 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Genuine question - why? I never delete anything unless I'm hiding something and

I suppose because when I do want to search within a particular text message for something specific, that I don't have to wade through pages and pages of texts. 

I have lots of photos of my grandsons in text messages from my son, his wife, and even the mother -in-law. Of course I save those.

But what about reminder texts from doctor's offices,or occasional holiday/birthday greetings from folks I otherwise don't interact with? Why save those?

Honestly, I guess I just don't see the point of saving page after page of text messages. I didn't realize folks think it's odd. 🤷

 

 

[princelina]

2 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Madison and David are sleazy. I do think that attraction can grow over time, but not if one is actually repulsed by their partner. I can't fault Madison for not being attracted to Allen, but she should have either left the show early or waited out the 8 weeks to start something up with David. 

First of all I fault the "experts" (and the producers behind them) because they have changed the rules of this game and those of us who have been there from the beginning are expecting something else.  The original "experiment" was to be that the participants agreed to allow the match to be made and realize that they were bad at matching themselves, and then they were to live with their spouse and see what happened.  Now it's no longer an "experiment" but rather "this process", and we have seen participants tell the "experts" during initial interviews that if they're not immediately attracted, they're out.  And they still get picked for the show!

If we can return to season 1 - Jamie was repulsed by Doug and cried in the hallway after the wedding.  Doug wooed her like a champ, and she kept her side of the bargain, and they are still together (Doug even lived with his parents, I believe, and she caught him sneaking a cigarette once as well!) 😄

Season 2 - Jaqueline was way better looking than Basement Ryan (guess where he also lived, based on that moniker!) but she too cooperated with the rules and came to like him, until it turned out that he was sneaking out to visit his secret real girlfriend the whole time).

So you can get over being "repulsed" by your first impression.  But in "this process" they all know that they can avoid the spouse, only show up for filming, etc.  I personally would find it interesting TV to see them called out by the producers for this behavior, or called out by the experts for being an ass.  That's why I'm now more interested in the cheaters than any of the fake couples.  I do feel bad for Allen, but IMO if you're going on any reality show at this late date you should watch the earlier seasons and be warned of what you're getting into.

[Chatty Cake]

I hope the group doesn’t take it easy on Madison. I didn’t think it was necessary for Juan and Emem to correct Allen for calling her a bitch.  She lies almost as easily as David.  What was all that crap about needing a man who takes good care of himself? David might go to the gym but he looks chunky with muscles. He admits he smokes so I imagine he reeks of cigarettes. He looks sloppy most of the time and we’ve all commented on that poofy ponytail. Allen looks to be in much better shape. 
I saw the manliness posters have mentioned on Madison this episode as she clomped around lying to Michellle. Her arms looked overly built. The ugly extensions and eyelashes sort of mask her true look.
 

[JenE4]

I, for one, was absolutely riveted by all of the various combinations of conversations trying to get to the bottom of the could-it-be-Michelle mystery. If you cut out the dates and any other filler, the distilled episode was so fascinating that it almost made me consider paying for Peacock—almost. But, man, these people were too drunk and too tired. If anyone had any sense, they would’ve just said, let’s all go to bed and talk about it in the morning. Instead, people just kept getting dragged out of bed at various times to talk. It seems that there’s some anti-Michelle chatter for just having so many conversations about it, but it was obvious the producers were directing which duos and trios chatted where at any given time. I mean, we literally saw a producer follow Madison into her room to confront her about being honest about what’s going on. Then she needs to wake up David and pretend they never even admitted that they “like” each other—and yet, immediately both jumped to leaving their spouses and being together. A couple of times they showed a clock, and it seemed like this was all edited out of order. David was watching baseball in his room after midnight, but then “later” at 10:30 there was a conversation in the kitchen. Camille said at the aftershow that she and Tom just fell asleep with their mics on and was surprised no one came to take them off. So the producers were obviously trying to keep everyone awake, tired and drunk, orchestrating conversations late at night to get the most drama out of this group. Congratulations, I guess—it worked. I still can’t get over that David was the one who had the conversation with Allen and not Madison. No one was even going to tell Michelle, aside from her catching David on his way back to bed, and he had the absolute audacity to say, “If you want to know, just ask.” I think my soul left my body when I heard that! I was livid on her behalf! “Just ask”! She’s been asking you repeatedly for weeks! She asks you 37 times during every conversation you have about it—-and there have been a lot of them. Madison was also just as infuriating with her nervous giggle—huh, not sure what could’ve happened to the messages…even though he’s #1 recently contacted. I mean, that goes to show how bad it was that she just had to delete the whole text exchange and not just a few “incriminating” texts. And for those who said, well, she probably just deletes texts, she was scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, which means she had like 100 different text threads, but somehow all of her content with David is gone? But regardless, they’ve admitted they’ve fallen for each other. I mean, does anyone actually believe this is the first time they’ve admitted their feelings and nothing physical has happened? Come on, even Cousin Denise knows what’s up.

Edited February 13 by JenE4

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Genuine question - why? I never delete anything unless I'm hiding something and that's rare (not as interesting as it sounds; sometimes my kid looks for something on my phone (with my consent) and I don't want her to see things like "who's purchasing what birthday gift" text exchanges with my husband). Otherwise why delete? It's not like I'm in danger of running out of storage space or something.

Clutter. I don’t need texts from that guy I went out with twice two years ago (I don’t even store those as contacts), or my medical provider confirming appointments that have already happened, or the car salesman I met at that dealership that one time for that test drive but I didn’t buy the car, or notifications from my building’s package service telling me about packages I’ve already picked up, or “happy holidays” texts from, like, my insurance guy. I just see no reason to keep them, particularly for stuff that’s already happened. Like, the appointment is over, I have a record of it in the patient portal, I don’t need the text.

9 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

But what about reminder texts from doctor's offices,or occasional holiday/birthday greetings from folks I otherwise don't interact with? Why save those?

Honestly, I guess I just don't see the point of saving page after page of text messages. I didn't realize folks think it's odd. 🤷

Exactly.

[JenE4]

47 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Clutter. I don’t need texts from that guy I went out with twice two years ago (I don’t even store those as contacts), or my medical provider confirming appointments that have already happened, or the car salesman I met at that dealership that one time for that test drive but I didn’t buy the car, or notifications from my building’s package service telling me about packages I’ve already picked up, or “happy holidays” texts from, like, my insurance guy. I just see no reason to keep them, particularly for stuff that’s already happened. Like, the appointment is over, I have a record of it in the patient portal, I don’t need the text.

Exactly.

Right, these are the types of text threads you delete. But the person who is your #1 in recently contacted with whom you are obviously having a current relationship (whether friendship or more) and you go upstairs specifically to show your friend that the texting with her husband is just about meeting at the gym and oops, I’m not sure why those texts aren’t there? She obviously deleted the text thread to hide it from Michelle!! Come on! They admitted there’s something between them so I’m not even sure what we’re trying to prove here? Is anyone thinking they didn’t have inappropriate texts between them that they’re hiding from Michelle?!?!

ETA: Apologies for the intense punctuation. I’m not punching cabinets. Just dumbfounded whether anyone actually believes they’re telling the truth. Like, you can still agree that people might innocently delete texts (even though she scrolled and scrolled through many texts) but then also say they obviously had inappropriate texts that they’re hiding from Michelle. There’s no way “You look so fine, I want to eat you up!” was a one-off text and once David realized his mistake, he never sent anything like that to Madison ever again. She for sure deleted a whole buffet of inappropriate texts between them.

Edited February 13 by JenE4

[atomic]

Makes you wonder how long this was really going on, when as they both admitted, they were clearly "vibing" since the honeymoon:

Also remember how Madison told Allen she likes to eat tacos after sex and what David told Michelle he was out late doing during the honeymoon? 🤔🤔🤔

[Alexander Pope]

Atomic, for me that is the question! How long has this been going on?  I suspect David and Madison started up very early on.  And that gives me a bit more sympathy for Michelle.  I never thought his courting of her was sincere.  I posted very early on about how irritating I found his constant use of the phrase "this marriage"--I got the vibe that he was saying it more to make himself look good than anything else. Like he was wielding the phrase like a cudgel.  Even now, after being busted, he calls Michelle "my wife" (as in "I sent the text to my wife by mistake").  If he can play that scene with Madison--oh we just learned we like each other!--I think he has been doing the same with Michelle from almost the beginning.  Did she ice him out at the wedding? yes.   But I think David also bailed and gaslighted her for weeks.

[Alexander Pope]

p.s.  Sounds like that message David sent Madison should have had a taco emoji!!

[Retired at last]

Well, since we now all know how terrible a liar David is, it might be interesting to go back and watch from the beginning if anyone really cared, but I don't. I believe that David gave it a try with Michelle for a few weeks - at least through the honeymoon. When they got home and Michelle still gave him absolutely no hope for a future, then he may have started staying out late with the partiers and eating tacos. I think Madison would have gone for it from Day 1, since she did not like Allen because of his looks. I don't know that David and Madison are in this for life - I think they are both happy to have someone to go play with with no strings. David will always be a player and Madison will always want someone who looks a certain way. Maybe after she fixes David's teeth and hair, she will grow tired of him. Maybe not. If they are still together by the reunion show, it will be because they want to prove something. 

I don't know that Michelle deserves any awards for her investigating skills. She knew what she suspected and kept after David trying to get him to admit it. Her interrogation tactics were non-existent because all she did was ask the same question over and over with her arms crossed and the smirk of superiority and condescension on her face. If WE were tired of it, I'm sure David caved just to be done with it.  Also, we also know that when the cameras weren't there, they never spoke or spent time together. For all we know, maybe Michelle had someone on the side. Maybe she was dating someone before the show and used this show to make him jealous (that has happened on past seasons) and went back to him? We have NO idea what happens off-camera. We can barely believe what we see ON-camera.

As far as most people not liking Michelle, I think that if we had seen even a tiny bit of kindness from her, we might be able to better relate to someone who was not attracted to their match. But, her constant attitude of superiority was enough to make me write her off as a cold bitch. PLUS, the fact that even her friends said that it takes her a long time to warm up shows that she should never have been selected for this show - they don't have a long time!

Edited February 13 by Retired at last

[kristen111]

I remember Madison going out every night practically and coming home late, but I don’t remember David going out to meet her.  Did they show it, or am I losing my mind?  Probably the latter, lol.

[Crashcourse]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

Makes you wonder how long this was really going on, when as they both admitted, they were clearly "vibing" since the honeymoon:

Also remember how Madison told Allen she likes to eat tacos after sex and what David told Michelle he was out late doing during the honeymoon? 🤔🤔🤔

Wait.  Madison had the nerve to criticize Allen's clothes when David is wearing those stupid-looking shorts?  Also, he looks like he's gained weight since that photo was taken.   I guess it's the tacos fault?

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, kristen111 said:

I remember Madison going out every night practically and coming home late, but I don’t remember David going out to meet her.  Did they show it, or am I losing my mind?  Probably the latter, lol.

David works second shift. I believe he works until 11-ish. Both he and Michelle said he gets home from work after Michelle is asleep for the night. So he definitely didn’t need to sneak anywhere. Madison probably met up with him before he even went home.

[kristen111]

5 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

David works second shift. I believe he works until 11-ish. Both he and Michelle said he gets home from work after Michelle is asleep for the night. So he definitely didn’t need to sneak anywhere. Madison probably met up with him before he even went home.

Ok, so they met up for a “quicky”, maybe in the car or wherever for a couple of hours.  Or, just talking?

[Empress1]

21 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

David works second shift. I believe he works until 11-ish. Both he and Michelle said he gets home from work after Michelle is asleep for the night. So he definitely didn’t need to sneak anywhere. Madison probably met up with him before he even went home.

Yikes - if he works second shift and Michelle works standard business hours, they didn’t have a chance to get to know each other. He works 3-11 and she’s in bed when he gets home, and she likely gets up and goes to work while he’s still sleeping.

[JenE4]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Yikes - if he works second shift and Michelle works standard business hours, they didn’t have a chance to get to know each other. He works 3-11 and she’s in bed when he gets home, and she likely gets up and goes to work while he’s still sleeping.

Yeah, that’s what they told the experts that they don’t interact at all during the week, only weekends.

[Racj82]

On 2/12/2025 at 12:29 PM, Jeanne222 said:

The whole thing looked a bit fake to me with bad actors!

The season was so bad..bring in the drama.

Is it my imagination or did David put on a few pounds. He looks worse than before!

Well....I believe the Madison/David confessing their feelings bit was bad acting. They want everyone to believe they are just getting their feelings out about each other but are terrible actors so no one believes it. They've already had this talk. can't rate the rest as bad acting. It revolves around Allen who is not acting at all. That man is hurt.

[princelina]

And if Madison and David started "vibing" on the honeymoon, I would also find it to be interesting tv to have them approach the "experts" and say, "This is what happened" and see how that all worked out.  There could be much more to this show than "will they/won't they" when we all know from almost the beginning that they won't!  Also, I don't think the experts watch any of the footage before their "counseling" sessions, and if they did that could be interesting too.  

[DrewPaul2010]

13 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I hope the group doesn’t take it easy on Madison. I didn’t think it was necessary for Juan and Emem to correct Allen for calling her a bitch.  She lies almost as easily as David.  What was all that crap about needing a man who takes good care of himself? David might go to the gym but he looks chunky with muscles. He admits he smokes so I imagine he reeks of cigarettes. He looks sloppy most of the time and we’ve all commented on that poofy ponytail. Allen looks to be in much better shape. 
I saw the manliness posters have mentioned on Madison this episode as she clomped around lying to Michellle. Her arms looked overly built. The ugly extensions and eyelashes sort of mask her true look.
 

I don't recall seeing Madison at all in upcoming previews. I can't imagine the show is going to pick up on 'lust at first sight' between Madison and David as if they're a new couple now. Not sure if they realize just how despicable they have become. Lets be real, Madison isn't going to be serious with David and more than Allen.  But she's done her self no favors as far as the future. Is anyone going to trust her?

I don't think Allen has the slightest interest in the other two females who are now unattached. I hope he stays strong and commits to cutting her off. He probably does want to talk to her but it won't do any good. She has no good excuses and he can do much better.

Edited February 14 by DrewPaul2010

[princelina]

10 minutes ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

I don't recall seeing Madison at all in upcoming previews. 

She was in at least 2 - with Karla telling her David is dirty, and Pia demanding that they fess up!  That's the one I'm looking forward to! 😃

[JenE4]

11 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

I don't recall seeing Madison at all in upcoming previews. I can't imagine the show is going to pick up on 'lust at first sight' between Madison and David as if they're a new couple now. Not sure if they realize just how despicable they have become. Lets be real, Madison isn't going to be serious with David and more than Allen.  But she's done her self no favors as far as the future. Is anyone going to trust her?

I don't think Allen has the slightest interest in the other two females who are now unattached. I hope he stays strong and commits to cutting her off. He probably does want to talk to her but it won't do any good. She has no good excuses and he can do much better.

I think they’re going to have to focus on the singles interacting, if only to vent to each other about the whole mess. Look how terrible it’s been for Emem, occasionally having the “experts” force a meeting between herself and Ikeche. I don’t want the rest of the show to be the experts trying to talk these people into just giving it one more chance. But, even worse than that would be the show only focusing on Camille/Tom and Karla/Juan. Just to have some semblance of a show, I could see Ikeche leaving altogether, as he’s never been a part of the group. Michelle moving in with Emem. Madison moving in with David. And Allen living on his own, but obviously meeting up with everyone else to talk about what happened. Otherwise, I’d think let’s just call it. But Keisha said the Afterparty is going on hiatus for 3 weeks, but presumably not the show, so we have a minimum of 3-4 more episodes? How’s anyone in this show going to be able to focus on tantric sound baths and ax throwing now that all this went down? 👀

[Chatty Cake]

28 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I think they’re going to have to focus on the singles interacting, if only to vent to each other about the whole mess. Look how terrible it’s been for Emem, occasionally having the “experts” force a meeting between herself and Ikeche. I don’t want the rest of the show to be the experts trying to talk these people into just giving it one more chance. But, even worse than that would be the show only focusing on Camille/Tom and Karla/Juan. Just to have some semblance of a show, I could see Ikeche leaving altogether, as he’s never been a part of the group. Michelle moving in with Emem. Madison moving in with David. And Allen living on his own, but obviously meeting up with everyone else to talk about what happened. Otherwise, I’d think let’s just call it. But Keisha said the Afterparty is going on hiatus for 3 weeks, but presumably not the show, so we have a minimum of 3-4 more episodes? How’s anyone in this show going to be able to focus on tantric sound baths and ax throwing now that all this went down? 👀

I’ve been fast forwarding the Juan and Karla segments ever since the odd lady in the nightie. I don’t want to see that crap. 
 

[atomic]

I actually enjoyed Juan and Karla's cringy, drunk singing by the fire. 😂 The pottery making scene with all the unintentional sexual innuendos was funny too. The comic relief was especially hilarious juxtaposed with all the tense cheating drama.

I like that those two at least seem to like and respect each other even though they had no romantic connection. Karla has actually grown on me quite a bit. I like that she never made Juan out to be a bad dude and didn't let his rejection define her self-worth. Happens time and time again on these shows -- even on The Golden Bachelorette the 60-year-old lead took one guy's rejection as some kind of sweeping indictment on how lovable she is. 🙄 Hopefully after the show Karla finds her that provider who's happy to support her stay-at-home mom ambitions and finds charm in all her whimsical, free spirited ways.

[Chatty Cake]

20 minutes ago, atomic said:

I actually enjoyed Juan and Karla's cringy, drunk singing by the fire. 😂 The pottery making scene with all the unintentional sexual innuendos was funny too. The comic relief was especially hilarious juxtaposed with all the tense cheating drama.

I like that those two at least seem to like and respect each other even though they had no romantic connection. Karla has actually grown on me quite a bit. I like that she never made Juan out to be a bad dude and didn't let his rejection define her self-worth. Happens time and time again on these shows -- even on The Golden Bachelorette the 60-year-old lead took one guy's rejection as some kind of sweeping indictment on how lovable she is. 🙄 Hopefully after the show Karla finds her that provider who's happy to support her stay-at-home mom ambitions and finds charm in all her whimsical, free spirited ways.

I did watch their singing scene which was kind of funny. I don’t mind them overall but they are kind of pointless since there’s no connection. Its sad that the show is being used for careers more than marriages.

[ytown]

Madison = transactional

Michelle = grand inquisitor

David = Jersey shore wannabe

Michelle, I hate to admit was vindicated but her MO was to deflect her horrific treatment towards David from day one.   She was not attracted to him so she used the live at home card/smoking is gross to derail the marriage.  She was flat out the mean girl and she played the victim game in an attempt to cover her bad behavior.

I do give her credit though for her ability to put all the pieces together and get to the bottom of David and Madison and I really do believe she felt bad for Allen even though he was a pawn in her investigation of her false narrative to justify herself.

I don't blame David for looking  elsewhere except hate to see it at the expense of Allen who was paired with the wrong person which was a terrible match by the so-called experts.   I feel they owe him.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 2/12/2025 at 5:44 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

I agree keep the new threads. A worthwhile investment with all the chicks who will soon be calling you.

At some point in her life after she's gone through a few more marriages Madison may realize she left a man who truly loved her and would have been faithful and taken care of her and that somethings matter more than instant attraction. Allen isn't a bad looking guy.

 

   I completely agree- Allen's new wardrobe will greatly benefit him on his dates with new ladies.  Madison will grow tired of David, and she's only bonded to him because it's something to do and they met on this show.  David and Madison are liars- I hope they don't expect honesty from each other 🥴.

   Madison will look into the mirror one day and tear up when she realizes that she lost out on an emotionally available and dedicated guy.  Allen will be fine in the long run. 

[Jeanne222]

Madison did like Allen's looks but she did like David's!

Pot meet Kettle!

David has had a great run on this show!  All the fan fare leading up to the wedding.  Vacations, meals and an expensive apartment out of mom's basement!

The boy has put on a ton of weight too!  Just look at those chubby cheeks!

[EXEAL]

I don't think most of them are in it for the long haul anyway. Some of the cast apply for the show but the producers also recruit people. They're getting less applicants in recent years so they have to fill the slots some way. They have used Tinder and other dating apps to find people willing to be on the show. Quote from the linked article, "It also leaves the door open for people who may not want to get married but do want to be on TV and experience all that reality fame has to offer." Remember the train wreck last season was? How many of them do you believe were there for the right reasons?

https://screenrant.com/married-at-first-sight-are-participants-recruited-apply-truth-revealed/

[Elizzikra]

4 hours ago, EXEAL said:

I don't think most of them are in it for the long haul anyway. Some of the cast apply for the show but the producers also recruit people. They're getting less applicants in recent years so they have to fill the slots some way. They have used Tinder and other dating apps to find people willing to be on the show. Quote from the linked article, "It also leaves the door open for people who may not want to get married but do want to be on TV and experience all that reality fame has to offer." Remember the train wreck last season was? How many of them do you believe were there for the right reasons?

https://screenrant.com/married-at-first-sight-are-participants-recruited-apply-truth-revealed/

I'm starting to feel like it's more an accident when they get couples on for the right reasons. I'm still holding out for more like Deaonna and Gregg or Jessica and .... ok, I forget his name but he's a nice normal guy (they were the DC season; she's a nurse and he's in IT; they now have two kids). 

[Chatty Cake]

On 2/16/2025 at 6:08 PM, EXEAL said:

I don't think most of them are in it for the long haul anyway. Some of the cast apply for the show but the producers also recruit people. They're getting less applicants in recent years so they have to fill the slots some way. They have used Tinder and other dating apps to find people willing to be on the show. Quote from the linked article, "It also leaves the door open for people who may not want to get married but do want to be on TV and experience all that reality fame has to offer." Remember the train wreck last season was? How many of them do you believe were there for the right reasons?

https://screenrant.com/married-at-first-sight-are-participants-recruited-apply-truth-revealed/

 Juan has to be a recruit. That man does not want to be married.  I would say David is a recruit to although he wanted to have the benefits of a marriage. I have no idea why anyone would cast Ikechi.