S47.E13: Bob and Weave

[Arkay]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

This week   Rachel and Genevieve let their sense of superiority as "smart professional women" show and I started wanting anyone but them to win. 

Yes,  a field of only two players.

Smart, professional women and In their THIRTIES.

I imagine they consider Teeny too young and Sue too old. Which is partly true, as Teeny is very immature and naive,  and Sue is more “ancient” than they’ve been told.

 

At least Sue won immunity but her gameplay is  “I hate you.”  Teeny showed she never knew anything and she shouldn’t be drinking.

 

I don’t love Rachel but she’s played the best game. Of course she’d be extinct if not for Sol.

[PaperTree]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Because it was the safest option.  Instead of trying to make something happen in the game and try and hurt what was then the majority alliance, she just sat back and let someone else decide that Sol was going home.

The "Anybody but me" strategy.  Go with the flow and the safest option.

Trying the "Make something happen" route often just puts a target on their back.

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think Rachel has probably played the best game of the 4 remaining contestants, but I don't think she has played an outstanding game.  I agree that she got lucky.  Sol saved her purely to try and mess up the others' game.  Then instead of teaming up with Sol and Sam, for whatever reason, she dropped both of them and immediately joined with Tuku.  Because it was the safest option.  Instead of trying to make something happen in the game and try and hurt what was then the majority alliance, she just sat back and let someone else decide that Sol was going home.

She did get lucky with the idol clue in her chips.  Kudos to her for getting it and kudos to her for winning immunity when she needed it.  But without the chips idol, she would have been gone.

Luck does have a huge hand in Survivor outcomes and winners, but she had to rely on luck twice.  I hope Sol gives her a hard time about this.  How can he reward her with a million dollars when the only reason why she got there was because of him?

No doubt she will apologise and say "that is the only thing I regret in this game, I knew it would hurt you but I did what I had to do".  And he will probably have his ego mollified and vote for her to win anyways.

Luck works both ways though. The reason that Rachel was in trouble was because of a supremely unlucky tribal swap that landed her in group where every single one of the others was from the same original tribe. 

So while she required the luck of Sol giving her the advantage, it was pure (un)luck that landed her there, not bad gameplay. And yeah, you could be a purist and say that finding her own way out of trouble would make her a "good" player, but the odds were extremely stacked against her. It just didn't make sense for that group of people to reduce their own numbers to keep her. And there's a well knownprecedent for why that would have been a bad move, the All Stars season literally hinges on that moment, had Rob not convinced Lex and Kathy to keep Amber, she's gone in that moment due to a very unlucky buff draw and doesn't go on to the win the game.

If not for that tribe reshuffle, I don't think Rachel's name was coming up at that time. 

As for Sol, what I've seen of his post-game interviews, I don't see him holding a grudge against Rachel. If it had been her who drove his vote out OR if she'd had an option to give him an advantage to save him and didn't, that would be one thing, but she was just one of the group at that point. And Rachel and Sol really never were aligned, he gave her that advantage from afar.

[bankerchick]

 

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Then again, in recent years, we had Chris Underwood (survived on Exile Island for almost the entire game, came back, saved himself with a hidden idol, made fire, won because people like first boot Reem spent almost the entire game with him and liked him better than Gavin and the useless Julie Rosenberg), Erika (not sure what her moves were), Maryanne (I liked her, but can't recall any truly big moves of hers) and Gabler (people hated Cassidy and Owen Knight was useless, the only thing I remember about him is that he is a Korean American ashamed to be Korean).

Wow.  With the exception of Chris, Maryanne and Gabler, I have no memory of any of the other people, their names or the circumstances under which any of the winners won.  Hell, I probably can't name anyone who left this season who is not on the jury (with the exception of the execrable Rome.)

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Lastly, if the other 4 had thought things through during that vote, they could have (at most) forced a tie with Sue and gotten her out on the revote.  But even with 3 votes they could have gotten Sue. Frankly I’m not sure how these new era players would survive 39 days in the game. 

Sue had an immunity idol that nobody knew about, which she played because it was the last time she could.  Any votes for her would not have counted.

[blackwing]

13 minutes ago, bankerchick said:

Sue had an immunity idol that nobody knew about, which she played because it was the last time she could.  Any votes for her would not have counted.

The situation you quoted, I believe the poster was talking about the Final 6 vote.  Sue and Rachel voted for Andy.  The remaining 4 could have anticipated one of them having an idol and splitting the vote.  So 2 on Rachel and 2 on Sue.  If both of them play an idol, then Andy is screwed.  If only one of them play an idol, then it's tied 2-2 and on revote, the one that didn't have an idol is out.

The fact that Rachel announced she was going to block a vote meant the four would only have 3 votes.  With 3 votes, they could have voted out Sue.  Or they could have made Sue think she was the target, and really voted out Rachel.  But they were dead set on voting out Rachel and they were convinced she didn't have an idol.

After having blindsided Caroline the previous round, the four of them should have considered that even if Rachel didn't have an idol, maybe Sue did.  And maybe Sue would play the idol for Rachel.

When Sue played her idol at Final 5, Sam exclaimed "the red paint idol!"  So they at least suspected that somebody had an idol from the red paint incident.  Either someone went home with it in their pocket or someone still had it.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, Arkay said:

At least Sue won immunity but her gameplay is  “I hate you.”  Teeny showed she never knew anything and she shouldn’t be drinking.

And Sue's gameplay is consistent and strong. That is no wishywashy hate there.

I noted Teeny only jumped for joy when Jeff got to the part about red wine, on the list of delights awaiting those on the reward.

[bankerchick]

OK, thanks for clearing that up.  The aforementioned lack of ability to remember anyone once they're gone from this game must have kicked in and I forgot there were 2 votes.

Edited Friday at 12:29 AM by bankerchick

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

The situation you quoted, I believe the poster was talking about the Final 6 vote.  Sue and Rachel voted for Andy.  The remaining 4 could have anticipated one of them having an idol and splitting the vote.  So 2 on Rachel and 2 on Sue.  If both of them play an idol, then Andy is screwed.  If only one of them play an idol, then it's tied 2-2 and on revote, the one that didn't have an idol is out.

Yes, this is what I meant.  When Rachel was saying her and Sue controlled the vote, they really didn't if the other 4 had thought it out.  Even without Sam's vote they still could have gotten rid of one of them.  They just banked too much on Rachel not having an idol, or were willing to take the gamble to try and get her out because they didn't even view Sue as any sort of threat.   

[HappyDancex2]

I was mesmerized by the way those sand granules clung around Andy’s eyes.  They had a beautiful “I’m going to Burning Man or a festival” quality to them in a way I wanted to enjoy them and both tell him to knock them off his face before he got a cornea scratch.

[Lantern7]

Farewell, Andy. We'll always have 6C2 from the first episode.

Actually, why am I saying "farewell"? During Tribal, someone noted that Caroline was "sent home," and she was sitting right there! On the Jury Bench! It's a bit of an irritant for me. Like when people type "ya'll" instead of "y'all." I'm weird.

17 hours ago, GenerationX said:

Paths to Victory:

1. Teeny - Promises to vote for any of the jury members as the winner of S50. . 

I'm waiting for someone to go, "Look, I know I don't have the 'resume'. I know you know that. I see at least three people here that would be invited back to the show. I'm not one of them. Give me the $1 million, you will never see me in a modified jungle setting ever again."

[SVNBob]

From the live thread:

On 12/11/2024 at 8:06 PM, dizzyd said:

Why did Rach burn her block a vote when she new where the votes were going?

Three reasons.

#1:

On 12/11/2024 at 8:06 PM, Straycat80 said:

Did Rachel HAVE to play her advantage?

Seeing as it was expiring at that TC, yes.  It was either use it or lose it.

#2:  They expected her to.  It was the "last card" she had, and they knew she'd go out swinging.  But the Italian Alliance had accounted for it.  They'd "secretly" pulled in Teeny to be sure they had the needed 4 to ensure majority no matter what Rachel did.

#3:  The bluff factor.  Again, she had to play the part they expected and go out swinging with the "last" thing she had to use.   So I'm sure that she'd said before/during TC that she would/had played her block-a-vote.  It's just that those discussions were less relevant to the events of TC than her THs about her using her idol.

 

There's one way that she could have made that play a little sweeter though.  Rachel could have blocked Sue's vote.  Then Rachel's would have been the only valid vote and it would have been her decision alone to remove Andy.

[violet and green]

41 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

There's one way that she could have made that play a little sweeter though.  Rachel could have blocked Sue's vote.  Then Rachel's would have been the only valid vote and it would have been her decision alone to remove Andy.

Not worth getting Sue (who is loyal to her and holds a grudge) offside.

[srhall79]

15 hours ago, Gummo said:

But that's true.

It may have been impolitic to be so upfront about it, yes. But with Andy out (I can't stand him, but he did play hard), who else has any accomplishments to point to? Sam hasn't been a factor pretty much since the merge. Teeny is clueless. The less said about Sue, the better.

This isn't the time for fake performative humility. Both women played great games. Getting Genevieve out now should cement Rachel's resume. 

But if anyone manages to get her out at four with fire, they deserve to win. Period.

(I don't get the Rachel hate, anyway. I like her.)

I agree with a lot of this.

Some weeks ago, I didn't get Genevieve talking about what a threat Rachel was. As time has passed, she's shown to be strong in challenges and having a good social game.

I like to think I'm usually pretty uncaring during challenges, but that last immunity, I was feeling very anxious for Rachel. Although my wife and I joked that no one was ever going to win it; Jeff was going to cut in live and say they're still out on the beach, trying to stack things.

Sam's got some cred as the last one standing from Operation Italy, which was a solid ruse. But other than that, his successes were all pre-merge. He might have some pull as the underdog playing from the bottom.

Sue was upset that she and Caroline were dismissed, but they haven't done much besides be in the majority (Sue does have an immunity win, credit where credit is due). It was interesting to watch her hate Kyle, then hate Andy, then hate Rachel.

Teeny has fallen for every swerve. She seems nice, but out of her depth.

Rachel really won me over in the first tribal council, "Hey Jeff, I'm gonna call BS. There was nothing confusing about the last tribal- Andy flipped, that's it."

I've seen some hold it against Rachel that she didn't save Sol. And while I was bummed to lose Sol, the way I see it- yes, Sol saved Rachel, but doing so both cost him nothing and meant the Tuku's had to vote out one of their own. And even though cracks were forming, their five were the largest of the original tribes.

To save Sol, I think Rachel would have had to use her idol. As I recall, she'd now be in the minority. Maybe they could have swung things around, but I think she made the smarter move.

[seacliffsal]

I found it both funny and interesting that Teeny, who believed Genevieve's idol was fake, ended up voting for Sam and Rachel, who believed Genevieve's idol was real, ended up voting for Genevieve.  I would really like to know what happened and why they seemingly switched their targets.  Again, though, it shows that while Teeny may have an inkling of what's going on, she continues to misunderstand, misinterpret, or just not trust her first inclination.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:02 PM, LadyChatts said:

I grew to like Andy.  I thank him for giving us Operation Italy.  But he had no chance of winning so I'm glad he didn't get dragged to the end as a goat.

I wouldn't say "no chance." I think that because of Operation Italy, Andy could have spun his way to at least some votes in a F3 with Rachel.

I think that in a Rachel-less F3, I'd probably pick him to win over most of the other possibilities. I don't think Sam, Sue and Teeny can point to anything that they've done in the game to show that they deserve the million. I would expect Genevieve as a lawyer to be the best at putting together an argument, but that hasn't always worked out for other lawyers in the F3 and apparently she is not a trial lawyer but a corporate one. I don't particularly care for the argument that she seemed to be seeding -- "I was too reserved because I was focused on game play and didn't want to relive the pain of voting off an early ally, but after all you got voted off, I rediscovered the importance of community and bonding with people."

I am not sure if this jury would punish or reward Andy for being a flipper, or if they would buy his "I fooled all of you by being a smiling assassin" talk and reward him for it. 

[laurakaye]

22 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I can’t wait to see everyone’s non-surprised faces when Sue tells them she’s not really 45.  

She will likely get the same reaction as when she played her idol..."Wow.  Ok, whatever."

 

21 hours ago, PaperTree said:

To Rachel's credit, she didn't let on that she had an idol and he was just digging his own grave.  She made him think she agreed with him.  LOL  A supreme acting job.

I am rooting for Rachel based on her acting alone.  Having an idol while everyone tells her she's going to be voted out - I don't know that I would be able to keep the "Hahaha, suckers!" from showing on my face.  You cannot smile, nor smirk, nor play it too hard the other way and cry and beg.  I am impressed.

 

14 hours ago, violet and green said:

I noted Teeny only jumped for joy when Jeff got to the part about red wine, on the list of delights awaiting those on the reward.

I get it, red wine is delish.  But I will never understand why these people - who haven't eaten normally for days or weeks - decide it's a good idea to chug alcohol at a reward.  Then you end up like Teeny, spilling secrets and wondering why she's clueless about everything going on around her.  At least she didn't pull a Big Tom and perform an interpretive dance.

Hopefully next week is the last time we see the collective "stank faces" on the jury members as they take their seats.  I'm very much over it.

  

[Cheyanne11]

47 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I get it, red wine is delish.  But I will never understand why these people - who haven't eaten normally for days or weeks - decide it's a good idea to chug alcohol at a reward. 

I'd like to see a Venn Diagram of these people and the ones who think it's a great idea to get smashed at a company holiday party.  

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, srhall79 said:

I've seen some hold it against Rachel that she didn't save Sol. And while I was bummed to lose Sol, the way I see it- yes, Sol saved Rachel, but doing so both cost him nothing and meant the Tuku's had to vote out one of their own. And even though cracks were forming, their five were the largest of the original tribes.

To save Sol, I think Rachel would have had to use her idol. As I recall, she'd now be in the minority. Maybe they could have swung things around, but I think she made the smarter move.

Absolutely - and for the folks who have been trashing on Rachel because they think she betrayed some sort of quid pro quo with Sol…?  Y'all can rest easy, because it wasn’t a quid pro quo at all:

1. Sol playing the advantage for Rachel involved zero sacrifice on Sol’s part, because keeping the advantage to use on himself was never an option - this option was designed from the ground up to be gifted to another player.  So, it isn’t like Sol’s choice was ever “use it on Rachel (or anyone else), or keep it for myself” - personal use was never on the menu.
2. The same cannot be said of Rachel’s HII, though; those were specifically designed for personal preservation to be their primary function, with use on others available as a secondary strategic option.  For Rachel, however, the question is very much “use it on Sol, or keep it for myself”, because a self-use option DOES exist - and using her HII on Sol would entail a personal/strategic game sacrifice.

So, Rachel decided not to reciprocate Sol’s advantage play (which cost him nothing) by playing her HII for him (which would cost her dearly) - and as it turns out Rachel’s decision was the correct one, because it 100% saved her from tonight’s attempt to ship her off on the redeye to Jury in the first smoking seat available.

[fishcakes]

Rachel wouldn't have had to use her idol for Sol. There were 10 people left, Kyle didn't have immunity that week, and Caroline didn't have a vote. Gabe/Sue/Genevieve and most likely Kyle were voting for Sol. That left, on the other side, Sol, Teeny, and Sam, who were working together, Andy who was still nominally with Sam and who had shown some indication he wanted to work with Sol, and Rachel. Rachel seemed initially to want to save Sol because she told Sam that Sol was the target, but then she got mad at Sam because he told Sol -- which I don't understand because what did she expect would happen? So she jumped back to the Lavo alliance, who would have voted her out had Sol not saved her, and to Genevieve, whom she knew had floated her name previously. If she had gone with the non-Lavos, they had the votes to both save Sol and get Kyle out that week, without her using her idol.

I can't really call that a mistake on her part because she's still there and is probably going to win, but I don't feel like she's a particularly great strategic player. She's been very good in challenges, has had some good luck that she's made the most of, and unlike the overwhelming majority of people who've played this game, she knows when to keep her mouth shut. But strategy-wise, she's been average and only looks better because no one has been great in that regard this season. And now it's just Sam, who is crossing his fingers and hoping no one notices he's still there, Teeny who has no idea what's going on ever, and Sue whose big strategic push was, "I'm 45 and I bit my tongue." Of course Rachel looks like a genius next to them.

[tv echo]

I don't feel strongly about any of the four remaining finalists, although I agree that Rachel likely will win (unless she loses both immunity and fire).

Also, if her graphic design career doesn't work out, Rachel should look into acting. According to Andy's EW exit interview (posted in the Media thread), they didn't suspect that Rachel had an immunity idol because of the way she reacted when she lost the immunity challenge and because she had "this big, very defeated atmosphere, a very defeated mood at camp."

Edited Friday at 04:15 PM by tv echo

[iMonrey]

It's a long shot, but Sue might swing a few votes by admitting to the jury her real age and maybe pulling out some sob story on top of it. It's really dependent on how pissed off the jury is at the other two, but there's always a chance she could pull off a Gabler. I don't think anyone on the jury is really that pissed off at Rachel though, so assuming she's in the F3 it's pretty much a foregone conclusion she will get all the votes. Which will make the finale pretty predictable and boring.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Absolutely - and for the folks who have been trashing on Rachel because they think she betrayed some sort of quid pro quo with Sol…?  Y'all can rest easy, because it wasn’t a quid pro quo at all:

So, Rachel decided not to reciprocate Sol’s advantage play (which cost him nothing) by playing her HII for him (which would cost her dearly) - and as it turns out Rachel’s decision was the correct one, because it 100% saved her from tonight’s attempt to ship her off on the redeye to Jury in the first smoking seat available.

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Rachel wouldn't have had to use her idol for Sol. There were 10 people left, Kyle didn't have immunity that week, and Caroline didn't have a vote. Gabe/Sue/Genevieve and most likely Kyle were voting for Sol. That left, on the other side, Sol, Teeny, and Sam, who were working together, Andy who was still nominally with Sam and who had shown some indication he wanted to work with Sol, and Rachel. Rachel seemed initially to want to save Sol because she told Sam that Sol was the target, but then she got mad at Sam because he told Sol -- which I don't understand because what did she expect would happen? So she jumped back to the Lavo alliance, who would have voted her out had Sol not saved her, and to Genevieve, whom she knew had floated her name previously. If she had gone with the non-Lavos, they had the votes to both save Sol and get Kyle out that week, without her using her idol.

 

Agree with the second comment.  I never expected Rachel to use her idol for Sol.  But the votes at that point were not certain, and as pointed out above, there were only the four Tuku+Genevieve votes which seemed certain on Sol.  Sol, Sam and Teeny were firmly together, likely voting against Kyle.  That left Andy and Rachel as the swing votes.

What I fault Rachel for is that it seemed like she didn't even consider the fact that she could have tried to save Sol by voting with him.  They probably could have convinced Andy as well.  I didn't understand how she became so firmly entrenched with the Tukus, considering that just two votes earlier, they were more than happy to vote her out and would have done so had she not been saved by Sol.

When it came time to have the opportunity to repay the favour and save Sol, she didn't seem to even consider voting with him.

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Hopefully next week is the last time we see the collective "stank faces" on the jury members as they take their seats.  I'm very much over it.  

I am tired of it too.  When Caroline marched in I was all "oooooh, you go, you mad angry bittercakes elf girl".  I wonder if they will be bitter during the Q&A too.

 

[candall]

So long, Johnny Depp.

[KeithJ]

20 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Luck works both ways though. The reason that Rachel was in trouble was because of a supremely unlucky tribal swap that landed her in group where every single one of the others was from the same original tribe. 

This is what everyone always forgets.  Yes, she got lucky that Sol saved her but she was extremely unlucky to be in that position in the first place so they basically just cancel each other out.

[HappyDancex2]

I find it interesting that people tell themselves a story that they believe and it gets so strong it’s just forming its own tsunami against oneself.  Apparently Rachel has been deemed an unbeatable fire maker.  And Teeny has determined that she would already lose to not only Rachel but pretty much anybody in fire making because she sucks.

call me old school but it’s making fire.  You have nothing but time on your hand out there.  Instead of doing whatever comfortable routine you’ve established on the beach and taking the easy way out every day, why not practice making fire?   Heck you should be doing it every day once you get out there anyway.  Learn on the job when you don’t have a job because it might save you at the end.  Fire making is unpredictable Teeny….you don’t need some speshul majicks to do it nor learn how to do it.  She sure gives up easily for someone in their early 20s…..

[ljenkins782]

6 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I am rooting for Rachel based on her acting alone.  Having an idol while everyone tells her she's going to be voted out - I don't know that I would be able to keep the "Hahaha, suckers!" from showing on my face.  You cannot smile, nor smirk, nor play it too hard the other way and cry and beg.  I am impressed.

Yeah, I rewatched the episode to see the beginning that I'd missed (and enjoyed the commercial-freeness of it, those ad breaks really distract me) and Rachel's performance on the beach was masterful. Actual tears and even though I knew she had an idol, I still felt bad for her in the moment. She sold the hell out of that.

Quote

I get it, red wine is delish.  But I will never understand why these people - who haven't eaten normally for days or weeks - decide it's a good idea to chug alcohol at a reward.  Then you end up like Teeny, spilling secrets and wondering why she's clueless about everything going on around her.  At least she didn't pull a Big Tom and perform an interpretive dance.

This baffles me too, for a number of reasons. The biggest one being that I wouldn't want to lose control of my brain/mouth around a bunch of people I was competing with for a million dollars. But besides that, drinking on a stomach that's been empty for weeks, the lack of bathroom facilities, the unavailability of day-after hangover food, it's just unappealing all around. 

Quote

I can't really call that a mistake on her part because she's still there and is probably going to win, but I don't feel like she's a particularly great strategic player. She's been very good in challenges, has had some good luck that she's made the most of, and unlike the overwhelming majority of people who've played this game, she knows when to keep her mouth shut. But strategy-wise, she's been average and only looks better because no one has been great in that regard this season. And now it's just Sam, who is crossing his fingers and hoping no one notices he's still there, Teeny who has no idea what's going on ever, and Sue whose big strategic push was, "I'm 45 and I bit my tongue." Of course Rachel looks like a genius next to them.

Just a general curiosity about this statement, who does qualify as a great strategist and why? If I were look back through the seasons, there are precious few players who I could identify as significantly strategic. 

So much of this game is luck (good or bad), especially with all of the advantages in play that I feel like a long-range strategy is nearly impossible. 

[bankerchick]

12 hours ago, violet and green said:

Not worth getting Sue (who is loyal to her and holds a grudge) offside.

Winner of the understatement Olympics.

 

5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I can't really call that a mistake on her part because she's still there and is probably going to win, but I don't feel like she's a particularly great strategic player.

I keep thinking back to the time she played her Shot In The Dark which I thought was dumb, she should just play her idol.  But, it was a great, relatively low-cost way of determining whether she needed to play the idol, which as it turns out, she didn't.

2 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

why not practice making fire?  

You're talking about people who had chickens and traded them in (if you're not getting eggs, slaughter the chickens and eat them for God's sake!,) who had fishing equipment but didn't bother to fish, and who had a clue to a hidden idol (or advantage of some kind) but couldn't be arsed to get up and look around for it.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

call me old school but it’s making fire.

And guess who is always tending to the fire? Ole Sooty-Face Sue!

 

[GenerationX]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

So much of this game is luck (good or bad), especially with all of the advantages in play that I feel like a long-range strategy is nearly impossible. 

Agreed.  The most useful "long-term" strategy is the reverse-engineered "strategy" someone professes at Final Tribal to have used to get to the finals.  The more a finalist can plausibly claim that what actually happened was their strategy all along, the better.

[Jeanclaudvanbuns]

I'm so surprised that Sam didn't win a single challenge.  He's young and fit, but he just totally sucked.  I guess Rachel deserves to win but I don't really like her.  Looking forward to seeing Genevieve all dolled up when she comes in next week.  

[realitytvfan1017]

I hope Rachel wins. As others said, it's hers to lose. Maybe Sam could beat her in the F4, winning when it matters most? Also Sue did win immunity once and almost twice. Notice I didn't say Teeny here. Sorry Teeny is not good at challenges at all. 

If Rachel wins F4 challenge, I think she will:

Make Sam and Sue make fire. You want to put up someone that has a chance of getting the other person you want out. Say she wants Sam out and I think Sue is good at making fire, that's a great plan. Teeny is terrible at fire and it's best to drag Teeny to F3.

If Sam wins F4 challenge, I think he will:

Make Rachel and Sue make fire. We hear Rachel is good and I think Sue is good because Caroline said Sue's face is dirty from soot from tending a fire, so she must know a lot about making a fire. 

If Sue Wins F4 challenge, I think Rachel and Sam  make fire. Rachel is supposedly good. Do we know how Sam is at fire?

Do you think the jury would penalize Sam if he won F4 but didn't do fire? I mean they criticized Cassidy for not doing fire when she won (so dumb) but they probably used that as a dumb excuse because they didn't want to vote for her (bitter jury). 

I grew to like Genevieve and Andy and was sad to see them go. I wouldn't be angry if they did the On Fire podcast and/or did Survivor 50. 

On 12/11/2024 at 10:02 PM, LadyChatts said:

Of the final 4, I think it's Rachel's to lose, followed by Sam.  I don't think Sue or Teeny are even in contention and may end up being zero-vote getters if they make it to the end.

I like Teeny, and mentioned in the live chat thread I'd like to see them play again.  I feel they could come back stronger having gone through this once, and with a better grasp on the game.  They seemed to get too into their emotional side of things and take things too much to heart.  I felt they had it out for Genevieve and the vote was more personal.  

I grew to like Andy.  I thank him for giving us Operation Italy.  But he had no chance of winning so I'm glad he didn't get dragged to the end as a goat.

I'll be sad when the season is over next week.  It's been a very memorable one and my favorite season of the new era so far.  

I disagree. I think Sue has a chance to win if she's against Sam and Teeny. Definitely not with Rachel there. Perception is Sam is the better player but of the two, I think Sue was. 

I'm glad at least Andy was able to redeem himself and do a game he could be proud of at the end. 

On 12/11/2024 at 10:02 PM, LadyChatts said:

Of the final 4, I think it's Rachel's to lose, followed by Sam.  I don't think Sue or Teeny are even in contention and may end up being zero-vote getters if they make it to the end.

I like Teeny, and mentioned in the live chat thread I'd like to see them play again.  I feel they could come back stronger having gone through this once, and with a better grasp on the game.  They seemed to get too into their emotional side of things and take things too much to heart.  I felt they had it out for Genevieve and the vote was more personal.  

I grew to like Andy.  I thank him for giving us Operation Italy.  But he had no chance of winning so I'm glad he didn't get dragged to the end as a goat.

I'll be sad when the season is over next week.  It's been a very memorable one and my favorite season of the new era so far.  

Great season. Also Teeny soured for me when Teeny made a big deal about not going on the reward and acting too cocky at the Operation Italy vote.  I could change my mind about Teeny but at this time no.

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/11/2024 at 10:38 PM, susannot said:

I liked Andy too, so whatever.  Also, I do not like Teeny because they are really clueless about the game.  I think Rachel will take Teeny and Sue to the end in a female Brian Heidik double- goat strategy. And I will love it.

I agree Teeny is clueless.

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/11/2024 at 11:10 PM, Souris said:

Rachel or bust!

My heart was racing during the last Rachel-Genevieve immunity showdown like it was UNC-Duke, LOL. What a tense challenge!

I really didn't care for this season very much as a whole. Not until I decided I was rooting for Rachel several weeks ago did it really engage me.

I liked Rachel ever since she tried to sneak rice in that group challenge earlier on.

On 12/11/2024 at 11:12 PM, KeithJ said:

I’ll never understand the jury penalizing the winner of the final IC for not making fire. When did that become a thing anyway?  You won the IC, that’s the whole point.  If it wasn’t, just have the final four all make fire and have the last person to finish go to the jury.

I think they just didn't like Cassidy. Did that happen before? I watched a fair number of seasons during the pandemic but they all blurred together.

On 12/11/2024 at 11:20 PM, Jodithgrace said:

So, I read about Sue’s dirty face. According to Caroline, I think, it’s not dirt, but soot. Sue does a lot of fire duty and gets soot on her hands, and then touches her face a lot. Various people keep telling her that her face is dirty, but she apparently can’t be bothered. 

I was holding my breath until Rachel played that idol, after she revealed it to Sue. All idols had to be played by final 5, or in the case of Rachel’s advantage, final 6. Too bad Sue’s idol came as an anticlimax after Rachel’s. But nobody has ever tried to take Sue out, so she never got to produce it dramatically.

 
I thought this episode was great fun, especially the suspense between Rachel and Genevieve at that last challenge, and the Andy (self induced) blindside.

I am rooting for Rachel to win.

After I heard about the soot on Sue's face, it made me think she's probably really good at making fire. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe I'm not?

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/11/2024 at 11:39 PM, KeithJ said:

One word … Gabler.

Gabler makes me think that Sue could win. But I really don't think it's against Rachel. Maybe the other two.

[fishcakes]

3 hours ago, bankerchick said:

I keep thinking back to the time she played her Shot In The Dark which I thought was dumb, she should just play her idol.  But, it was a great, relatively low-cost way of determining whether she needed to play the idol, which as it turns out, she didn't.

Oh, that's right! I'd forgotten she did that. I do think that was a very smart move.

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Just a general curiosity about this statement, who does qualify as a great strategist and why? If I were look back through the seasons, there are precious few players who I could identify as significantly strategic.

I agree with this. Great strategists are fairly rare, and this question is complicated for me in that I remember earlier seasons much more clearly than later seasons. But to name a few, first I'd say Tina Wesson in her Outback season; she had no compunction about having multiple, competing alliances and she boxed Colby in to an F2 with her because she knew that there was a real danger that he'd ultimately go with Jerri/Amber if she didn't get Jerri out while Nick, Rodger, and Elisabeth were still in the game. Second, Vecepia Towery, who was the first real flip-flopper; she played Rob Cesternino's game before he did, yet she gets zero credit for it where he was always praised as "the best player to never win." Brian Heidik, the first to use a goat strategy, and who somehow managed to hide his true personality throughout the entire game; although to be honest, I'm not sure if this makes him a great strategist or just a sociopath. Yul Kwon and I'm not hearing any nonsense about an "overpowered idol" because he never used that idol except to force Penner to flip, then he voted Penner out because Parvati, also a good strategist, explained to him how he would lose at jury if he didn't; so that was the season of extortionists, albeit charming ones. Jeremy Collins, who is so very boring to me, but he played a smart, dull game. He started the whole "meat shield" thing by keeping Joe around to keep the target off himself as a physical threat; he also did this thing where he would often lie down or sit lower than whoever he was talking to, which is the opposite of all those management books that tell bosses to make their desk chair 5 inches higher than the other chairs to intimidate their employees. I also want to say Hannah Shapiro from MvGenX, although I can't recall the specifics now; I just remember that she was behind a lot of moves that Adam made and she had to talk him out of doing stupid stuff and ultimately he won and she got zero votes and I am still mad about that but in a now-vague way. And I begrudgingly will say Dee Valladares, who played an effective but repugnant-to-me game by keeping lovesick Austin on a string and then, to show the jury that she had been the one running things, by telling the jury how she played him.

35 minutes ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

I think they just didn't like Cassidy. Did that happen before? I watched a fair number of seasons during the pandemic but they all blurred together.

In the Winners at War season, Natalie was asked why she didn't make fire, but I think part of the reason for that is that she had been the first voted out and so spent most of the game at Edge of Extinction. She was someone who needed to show the jury that she had done something in the game. But that might have been a bit personal as well, since she had quit talking to everyone a few days before the end of the game; she was also asked about that during FTC.

[realitytvfan1017]

3 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Oh, that's right! I'd forgotten she did that. I do think that was a very smart move.

I agree with this. Great strategists are fairly rare, and this question is complicated for me in that I remember earlier seasons much more clearly than later seasons. But to name a few, first I'd say Tina Wesson in her Outback season; she had no compunction about having multiple, competing alliances and she boxed Colby in to an F2 with her because she knew that there was a real danger that he'd ultimately go with Jerri/Amber if she didn't get Jerri out while Nick, Rodger, and Elisabeth were still in the game. Second, Vecepia Towery, who was the first real flip-flopper; she played Rob Cesternino's game before he did, yet she gets zero credit for it where he was always praised as "the best player to never win." Brian Heidik, the first to use a goat strategy, and who somehow managed to hide his true personality throughout the entire game; although to be honest, I'm not sure if this makes him a great strategist or just a sociopath. Yul Kwon and I'm not hearing any nonsense about an "overpowered idol" because he never used that idol except to force Penner to flip, then he voted Penner out because Parvati, also a good strategist, explained to him how he would lose at jury if he didn't; so that was the season of extortionists, albeit charming ones. Jeremy Collins, who is so very boring to me, but he played a smart, dull game. He started the whole "meat shield" thing by keeping Joe around to keep the target off himself as a physical threat; he also did this thing where he would often lie down or sit lower than whoever he was talking to, which is the opposite of all those management books that tell bosses to make their desk chair 5 inches higher than the other chairs to intimidate their employees. I also want to say Hannah Shapiro from MvGenX, although I can't recall the specifics now; I just remember that she was behind a lot of moves that Adam made and she had to talk him out of doing stupid stuff and ultimately he won and she got zero votes and I am still mad about that but in a now-vague way. And I begrudgingly will say Dee Valladares, who played an effective but repugnant-to-me game by keeping lovesick Austin on a string and then, to show the jury that she had been the one running things, by telling the jury how she played him.

In the Winners at War season, Natalie was asked why she didn't make fire, but I think part of the reason for that is that she had been the first voted out and so spent most of the game at Edge of Extinction. She was someone who needed to show the jury that she had done something in the game. But that might have been a bit personal as well, since she had quit talking to everyone a few days before the end of the game; she was also asked about that during FTC.

Thanks for the reminder 

On 12/12/2024 at 5:32 AM, JudyObscure said:

If the final immunity challenge is one of endurance, I think Sue has a good chance of winning it.  I'd love to see that happen just to shake things up a little.

This week   Rachel and Genevieve let their sense of superiority as "smart professional women" show and I started wanting anyone but them to win. 

Disagree. Aside from maybe Sue, let those two do something then they can complain about Rachel and Gen.

On 12/12/2024 at 12:08 AM, princelina said:

Agreed.  Do they realize it at all?  I understood their anger/annoyance that Rachel and Genevieve were acting like they were the only two left in the game, but when it came to the next TC, did Teeny or Sue notice at all that it was only between Genevieve and Sam? 😄. It always amuses me that the goats seem to have an elevated view of themselves in the game, but then again, as someone said - Gabler.  (And Amber)

Which is why it would have been an anticlimax without Rachel's!  Granted she did well to keep it a secret all that time, but I felt a little second hand embarrassment for her proudly playing it for herself and then strutting back to her seat 😂

So true about the goats here. Yeah felt a little bad for Sue. Part of me was hoping that Rachel didn’t win immunity and Sue was able to whip out her idol and play it for Rachel. If she could somehow win fire , she could have won the game with that move. Glad it didn’t happen.

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/12/2024 at 1:04 AM, TVFan1 said:

I can't see a way that Rachel loses this game this season with who is left. With Andy and especially Genevieve gone, Rachel has a great chance of winning. If she loses the Final 4 immunity challenge, she will go to fire, so not a guarantee that she will win.  The jury loved Rachel's idol play. I've been rooting for Rachel for weeks now, and I am still rooting for her to win. 

I’m hoping she wins final immunity.

On 12/12/2024 at 1:14 AM, argrow said:

Love the Andy exit! Something i have wanted to see since episode 1! What a smug yet whiny baby.

This episode would have been much better if Sam has gone right after.

Is that way they called him Baby Andy on the RHAP podcast? They never explained why .

[Skooma]

6 hours ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

After I heard about the soot on Sue's face, it made me think she's probably really good at making fire. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe I'm not?

Except tending a fire has nothing whatsoever to do with making a fire.

[srhall79]

A last thought on Genevieve and her tribemates: she could kill it on a puzzle like that and they kept letting Rome do puzzles?! Was he that demanding, or she that hesitant?

Edited Saturday at 10:30 AM by srhall79

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, Skooma said:

Except tending a fire has nothing whatsoever to do with making a fire.

Maybe she lights it then tends it? It's not some arcane activity known only to a select few (although many Survivor contestants seem to believe it is).

And frankly tending a fire is a better skill to have then just lighting it in the fire challenge - that's where it's won.

[realitytvfan1017]

6 hours ago, Skooma said:

Except tending a fire has nothing whatsoever to do with making a fire.

It does somewhat. But true, we don't know if she knows how to start one, just keep one going. Something tells me she does though.

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:12 AM, Haleth said:

It would be terrible if we are left with Sam, Teeny, and Sue. The first 3 were clueless most of the time or just followed someone else’s lead. (At least Sam can claim he was part of Op Italy.)  Sue can claim a couple (?) immunity wins and an idol she never needed to use.  But no one has a resumé like Rachel’s.

It would have been much more interesting to have had the finale be Rachel v Genevieve plus any goat.

I could not believe Andy campaigning for Rachel’s jury vote after saying he was voting her out. Wow. That’s pretty nervy!

I started this season hating it and not caring about any of the unremarkable characters. It seemed like any other unmemorable season, wash rinse repeat. But eventually it did click in and I became engrossed. Slow burn there. 

I don't like how people rag on Sue. Sure she's no superstar but she's tons better than Sam or Teeny. No where as good as Rachel but lets face it, was Gabler that great?

On 12/12/2024 at 9:42 AM, Gummo said:

Wowie wow wow! And just like that, a mediocre season is redeemed by a WILD double episode! That was CRAZEEE.  As a Rachel fan, I ate that up with spoons in both hands! See, Survivors? THAT's why you keep your damn idol a secret!

Andy talking himself into elimination was so in-character, it was hysterical. Yeah, dude, just keep telling Rachel how awesome your game was and what a good story you have for the jury! I knew then he was writing his own epitaph, and sure enough....

I really enjoyed the way both Genevieve and Rachel handled their frenemy rivalry. It was a far cry from the early days when EVERYTHING was personal. 

Absent a big final twist or a complete meltdown, this season is Rachel's to lose. She's played a good game.

Loved Rachel and Gen as frenemies and Rachel's blindside of Andy with the idol. 

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:52 AM, Gummo said:

But that's true.

It may have been impolitic to be so upfront about it, yes. But with Andy out (I can't stand him, but he did play hard), who else has any accomplishments to point to? Sam hasn't been a factor pretty much since the merge. Teeny is clueless. The less said about Sue, the better.

This isn't the time for fake performative humility. Both women played great games. Getting Genevieve out now should cement Rachel's resume. 

But if anyone manages to get her out at four with fire, they deserve to win. Period.

(I don't get the Rachel hate, anyway. I like her.)

I agree wholeheartly!!!!

On 12/12/2024 at 12:15 PM, ljenkins782 said:

Sam didn't have a vote, Rachel blocked his vote. He found out when he went up to vote that his vote had been blocked. She didn't have to announce it ahead of time. 

Could not agree more about "chef's kiss," I LOATHE it and it's everywhere. 

Another thing I don't like when they say let them cook, funny it's like chef's kiss. Didn't you all find it interesting if they had an extra vote, they could still vote? I didn't knwo that. 

On 12/12/2024 at 12:23 PM, SummerDreams said:

Lets be honest. Rachel was VERY lucky twice; when Sol found the "leave the tribal" advantage on the reward and when she found the clue for the immunity idol in her chips. None of these things result to good game play in my book. Winning 3 immunity challenges, yes. Keeping the idol a secret, also yes. But that's pretty much it. She is the best of 4 mediocre players at the moment, in my opinion.

I'm sensing you don't like Rachel or Gen. Who did you want to win Kyle or Sol?

[realitytvfan1017]

On 12/12/2024 at 12:23 PM, PaperTree said:

And pretty stupid!  Just tell her what she wants to hear.

And that pretzel logic something like "I have to vote you out because you are such a threat so vote for me in the jury because I'm smart to vote you out"

Huh???

To Rachel's credit, she didn't let on that she had an idol and he was just digging his own grave.  She made him think she agreed with him.  LOL  A supreme acting job.

I loved it all. Andy, you only had one job, to yes Rachel.

[LadyChatts]

6 hours ago, srhall79 said:

A last thought on Genevieve and her tribemates: she could kill it on a puzzle like that and they kept letting Rome do puzzles?! Was he that demanding, or she that hesitant?

If I had to guess, based on what we saw, he was demanding.  I can’t remember what challenge it was that Sol wanted to swim first or whatever it was for the first leg and Rome refused to let him because he had to be the star.  I was convinced that one puzzle he completely bombed he threw on purpose but apparently he was just that bad.

[SummerDreams]

3 hours ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

I'm sensing you don't like Rachel or Gen. Who did you want to win Kyle or Sol?

I don't dislike Rachel but I don't think she played the amazing game everyone is talking about. In fact, nobody in this season played a good game in my opinion. Maybe we will remember operation Italy, but it was based on players' stupidity (Sue, Teeny, Caroline, Rachel) rather than players' intelligence (Gen, Sam, Andy).

[realitytvfan1017]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

I don't dislike Rachel but I don't think she played the amazing game everyone is talking about. In fact, nobody in this season played a good game in my opinion. Maybe we will remember operation Italy, but it was based on players' stupidity (Sue, Teeny, Caroline, Rachel) rather than players' intelligence (Gen, Sam, Andy).

Yes I know that she lucked into being safe and some immunity but there are other people who have won being lucky. But she had that great move with the SITD, she has good reads on the game and and aside from some luck was able to keep herself safe. By the way, what's your criteria for an amazing player? Just wondering.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

I don't dislike Rachel but I don't think she played the amazing game everyone is talking about. In fact, nobody in this season played a good game in my opinion. Maybe we will remember operation Italy, but it was based on players' stupidity (Sue, Teeny, Caroline, Rachel) rather than players' intelligence (Gen, Sam, Andy).

This is how I feel about Rachel.  I’d in no way rank her as one of the best to ever play or win, if that ends up being the case.  And I loved Operation Italy because it seemed like a classic old school move, but they did luck out there that the 3 women were too stupid to listen to Teeny when they put it out there that Genevieve’s idol might not be real and they shouldn’t split the vote.  Teeny never even got a good look at Genevieve’s idol when they did manage a peek but they had no real choice other than to believe it and vote with what they thought the majority was (of course none of the women counted on Andy flip flopping which was probably also a stupid move on their part).  I’d consider Rachel’s only big move being playing her SITD.  Now I’m not saying anyone else has a big resume built up.  Sam’s been treading barely above water since Sierra left and it seemed like his game peeked early.  Sue seems like she’s going to go for the loyalty angle but I feel like the only people she was very loyal to were Gabe and Caroline.  And then Teeny just hopes everyone likes them enough to give them the money (as I said, too bad the Sia award didn’t still exist).  I think it’ll come down to what it usually comes down to in Survivor-who does the jury like the most or who do they want to win the least.  

Edited Saturday at 08:00 PM by LadyChatts

[Rodney]

19 hours ago, Jeanclaudvanbuns said:

I'm so surprised that Sam didn't win a single challenge.  He's young and fit, but he just totally sucked.

He won the Reward Challenge last week, though even then, he just barely cinched it over Rachel.  And he won another one teamed up with Rachel and Kyle.  But no Immunity Challenges, which are vastly more important.

[bankerchick]

9 hours ago, srhall79 said:

A last thought on Genevieve and her tribemates: she could kill it on a puzzle like that and they kept letting Rome do puzzles?! Was he that demanding, or she that hesitant?

 

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

If I had to guess, based on what we saw, he was demanding.  I can’t remember what challenge it was that Sol wanted to swim first or whatever it was for the first leg and Rome refused to let him because he had to be the star.  I was convinced that one puzzle he completely bombed he threw on purpose but apparently he was just that bad.

I recall he was also pretty possessive about the fishing gear.  At the end of the day, just an asshole, really.  Going by the way he was in Sol's face, I get the impression he's often a bully, but likely only in situations where the person who might be tempted to punch him in the face, can't.