Chit-Chat: The Feels

[LexieLily]

[isalicat]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Little known fact about me - After grad. school I counseled disadvantaged kids in a Federally funded program at a college. It broke my heart. I ended up leaving the job after a year for unrelated reasons but it made me think about this situation a lot. Once you know people first hand and up close, things look very different. The problem is it's hard to find Republicans that will allow themselves to get that close to this to think differently about it.

I'm going to jump in here, despite my better instincts 😺

I've been working with "disadvantaged people" since I was in junior high and volunteered to provide reading and math tutoring at an inner city elementary school in Los Angeles for a summer. Since then I've set up and run soup kitchens, food pantries and innumerable charitable fundraising events to benefit homeless and under-served communities within the U.S. and abroad - about 55 years worth of working in this field.

And I can't disagree more about poverty as a root cause of criminality. Doing crime is a *choice*, generally made by people with a fundamental lack of morality and ethics, values that are first taught within the family and ultimately reinforced by societal expectations and when necessary, penalties. My family arrived in the U.S. with absolutely nothing (no English, no financial resources, nothing...) and no one within three generations has yet chosen to flout the law to survive. I work with a multitude of super hardworking immigrant families currently and they are teaching their children to value education and aspiration, not take the easy road of theft or drug dealing. It all starts at home and money, or the lack of it, is not the salient criteria. As our society discourages stable families (and provided financial incentive to have children without a stable family framework in place) and supports victim hood as a way of life, we are reaping what we have sown.

Yes, there are mentally ill people that need intervention and treatment that may do crime - they are a minority of the mentally ill. Yes, there are many anecdotal instances of people wrongly convicted for all sorts of reasons, including corrupt law enforcement, but statistically 99% of people in prison are there through their own poor decisions.

Nonetheless no one is going to convince me that if we all pony up and provide everyone with some sort of basic income, crime will disappear. During the riots that accompanied the demonstrations of the early 2020s a new habit of helping oneself to luxury goods in the course of "fighting for your rights" became a thing which hasn't gone away...tell me those people are looting because they are hungry or can't pay their rent. Nonsense. Moral relativism and the "cushioned class"'s willingness to excuse bad behavior as a result of circumstance is leading to ruin. Civilizations actually fall apart from the foundation, not from the top.

[lookeyloo]

6 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Nonetheless no one is going to convince me that if we all pony up and provide everyone with some sort of basic income, crime will disappear. During the riots that accompanied the demonstrations of the early 2020s a new habit of helping oneself to luxury goods in the course of "fighting for your rights" became a thing which hasn't gone away...tell me those people are looting because they are hungry or can't pay their rent. Nonsense. Moral relativism and the "cushioned class"'s willingness to excuse bad behavior as a result of circumstance is leading to ruin. Civilizations actually fall apart from the foundation, not from the top.

this is a very complicated issue.  It isn't simple.  we did a lot of work on how kids get into the system. Once in the system they are usually there to stay.  I retired 20 years ago and don't have the energy to follow up on all that I used to know and how it has changed.  But, a child from a depleted home who is hungry, medical needs not met,(think of a child with bad hearing, bad sight, allergies, undiagnosed diabetes, poor or no nutrition, etc.) poor parenting, can't concentrate in school, no family to support that child, not sleeping because of what is going on in the home, acting out in school,  being expelled, on the streets with no services, well, yes.  A lot of kids get into the juvenile justice system because the powers that be fund those better than protective services.  So they get into the JJ system and learn a lot there and are labelled and in some cases sent to big institutions far from any support and when they get out, what do they know?  You guessed it.  It is a cycle.  These kids will perpetuate the cycle.  Sheriffs have unlimited power "The Highest Law in the Land" by Jessica Plishko.  In the state I worked, kids were funneled through law enforcement because of power.  It was a money maker.  Shelters and such were underfunded and not enough beds.  Your experience is different I'm sure.  I can only talk about what I knew and try to know now.

[peacheslatour]

44 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

OMG he is hilarious.  Also dangerous.  "was always surprised Biden didn't do it!"  FFS

Now I'm hearing Musk and Thiel are staging a coup. They revealed their hand. Musk is now calling for Republicans to oust Trump and install Vance.

[lookeyloo]

6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Now I'm hearing Musk and Thiel are staging a coup. They revealed their hand. Musk is now calling for Republicans to oust Trump and install Vance.

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

Probably.

[kittykat]

2 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

The Big Beautiful Blowup!

[ECM1231]

Here ya go, @kittykat. Popcorn sticks in my teeth. 

 

 

[Eri]

This is yet another good example of why men are too emotional to be in leadership. I'm just saying! 😉

Edited Friday at 03:57 AM by Eri

[peacheslatour]

10 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Here ya go, @kittykat. Popcorn sticks in my teeth. 

 

 

These were always my favs at the movies.

Edited Thursday at 10:47 PM by peacheslatour
My name is peacheslatour and I'm an icecreamoholic.

[jessiebell]

When Biden pardoned Hunter, his brother , and the Jan 6 committee members I wasn't in favor of this.  But I came to realize that Comer and Trump and crew will never give up trying to pin something on Hunter - granted he was found guilty but those crimes pale in comparsion to many of the people Trump is pardoning  - as well as the Jan 6 committee members who's only "crime" is finding Trump guilty of inciting the Jan 6 riot. 

Instead of looking into those pardons Comer (or Gomer) should be looking into Trumps' pardons.   I don't think Trump has immunity from the Supreme Court for bribery.

Trump was recorded saying that when he was owner of that beauty pageant (I'm not sure which one but it involed teen age girls) he said that he had the right to go into the dressing room and look at the girls in various stages of dress (or undress).  He's also recorded as saying that "Epstein likes them even younger than me."  So that he would be in the Epstein files is certainly not a reach.  And it's certain that those files will never see the light of day with Biondi as AG.   

[Lantern7]

It's okay to root for mutual destruction, right? MAGA and Muskies wipe each other out, then the nation can begin to rebuild. Of course, I don't think either side would care about collateral damage.

[anony.miss]

7 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

It's okay to root for mutual destruction, right?

Yes!

Edited Thursday at 10:56 PM by anony.miss

[ECM1231]

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

These were always my favs at the movies.

Yummy. I wonder if that's a West Coast thing. I've never seen them at the theater here.

[annzeepark914]

4 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Yummy. I wonder if that's a West Coast thing. I've never seen them at the theater here.

Gee--that's ice cream, so one would have to eat them up immediately, right? Hmmm...there are 12. I could do that--easily. Pass 'em down my way, please 😊

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

I can see it being preplanned to a point. Trump cuts Musk loose, and he spirals because Elon lacks the intestinal fortitude to handle rejection. But. I do think this is rooted in the White House knowing the big beautiful bill is DOA in the Senate. 

[Anela]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

These were always my favs at the movies.

Ooh, you are all making me wish I had something snacky in the house. Sour patch kids, starburst, or those little pastries with cream inside, and chocolate on the top. 

I did get some ice cream the other night. Jeni's Darkest Chocolate. but I need my tea first. 

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I don't understand - are you saying poor disadvantaged people are criminals?  I root for fairness in our system.  

Again, it's hilarious to me to hear Trump supporters/defenders going on about crime while conveniently ignoring the fact they're supporting and defending a criminal who's currently occupying the White House.

Maybe worry about the crimes your guy is committing, right out in the open, no less, before you go off about other people breaking hte law, Trump supporters. 

[jessiebell]

More evident that Trump doesn't really think through his actions.  He said he's implementing the new travel ban for secuity due to this week's attach in Boulder but that man is from Egypt and Egypt is not on the list.

Secondly the new steel tariffs.  Sure they'll help the Pittsburgh steel company but hurt all those industries that use steel or aluminum such anyone that uses cans like the drink and food industry, car manufacturers, home builders.   I would guess there's alot more people employed in those industries than in the steel company.  Plus the number of steel workers has steadily declined not mostly because of foreign steel but through automation.

Steve Radner gives an example of Trump's first term tariffs on washing machines. Those raised the cost washing machines $200 and since dryers are often sold with washers those prices were also raised.  While the tariffs created 1800 jobs each of those jobs cost American consumers $817,000.

 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

These were always my favs at the movies.

Or even better, maybe some mochi ice cream (pounded Japanese sticky rice stuffed with ice cream).  I'll send some virtually.  No need to worry about how our borders control dairy.  :D

 

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Musk is now calling for Republicans to oust Trump and install Vance.

Infighting among the hypocrites is usually entertaining and enlightening. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

You're not the only one wondering this. 

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

…I do think this is rooted in the White House knowing the big beautiful bill is DOA in the Senate. 

Yeah. Plus Trump probably got clued in to the BBB ruining his legacy.

Personally, I would like to see Elon release evidence of Trump's taking advantage of Epstein's young girls. I don't need to read or see any of it. I just want to see Trump get dropped like a hot potato. 

 

[LexieLily]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Personally, I would like to see Elon release evidence of Trump's taking advantage of Epstein's young girls. I don't need to read or see any of it. I just want to see Trump get dropped like a hot potato. 

I have no faith that even video evidence of Trump’s dalliances with Epstein's young girls would do anything to shake his base or the GOP. It’s been an open secret for years how many times Trump's name is all over the flight logs. 

Edited Friday at 01:45 AM by LexieLily

[isalicat]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Or even better, maybe some mochi ice cream (pounded Japanese sticky rice stuffed with ice cream).  I'll send some virtually.  No need to worry about how our borders control dairy.  :D

 

My main supermarket has a huge refrigerator case of these (mochi balls) in many flavors in the bakery department. I did not actually know what was in it, so thanks - now I'll try one! 

As neither a Democrat or a Republican (did not vote for Trump or Harris) because I find both "parties" presently devoid of ability and solutions, I am with you all in enjoying the cringefest coming out of the White House presently. 

Edited Friday at 01:47 AM by isalicat

[peacheslatour]

20 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I have no faith that even video evidence of Trump’s dalliances with Epstein's young girls would do anything to shake his base or the GOP. It’s been an open secret for years how many times Trump's name is all over the flight logs. 

Yeah, I don't think this would come as a surprise to anyone.

[Blergh]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Now I'm hearing Musk and Thiel are staging a coup. They revealed their hand. Musk is now calling for Republicans to oust Trump and install Vance.

Not that that possibility would net any thing more than a booby prize, IMO. 

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, tessaray said:

Haven't we always known Trump and Epstein were friends? Even if Elon has video, would the faithful care? They'd just call it a deepfake.

I think everyone has their limit and whatever it is that Elon has on Trump makes Trump nervous. Which makes me think it's got to be pretty bad and pretty ironclad. I know I've posted this theory before pages back way before Elon's comment.

So if Elon has stuff on Trump that Trump doesn't want made public he might treat Elon with kid gloves rather than fight back and dirty at this comment. That's not to say he won't do some nasty things to Elon, he just won't respond to this Epstein thing in kind. We'll have to see how he reacts. If he just lets the Epstein file comment roll that will lead me to believe that Trump is really afraid of Musk and that Musk has some really bad shit on Trump that he is worried about being made public. I've actually been wondering this all along and I know I've posted this theory pages back. This theory would explain why Trump was so accommodating of Elon and took him on the way he did with DOGE. 

So for me this whole feud is absolutely NO surprise and only gives more credence to my earlier theory! I knew all that had to happen was Trump pissing off Elon and there would be a nasty falling out and hints about dirt. I just can't believe it actually happened!

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Or there's the possibility it's choreographed theatre, to distract us - and the media - from something even worse than what we already know.  Or this is Musk in cahoots with Thiel to get Thiel's boy Vance in the Oval.  Sadly, there's little that isn't possible these days, and any and all of it results in us continuing to be screwed.

Yes, this is an alternate theory.

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Now I'm hearing Musk and Thiel are staging a coup. They revealed their hand. Musk is now calling for Republicans to oust Trump and install Vance.

Yes, could be. Unfortunately Vance might be even worse than Trump because he actually knows how government works!

4 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder if this is preplanned theater to distract from the Big Beautiful Bill"

Yeah it could be a faked feud designed to distract. That wouldn't surprise me either. Like a scripted reality show. And it would be consistent with Trump for that to be the case.

50 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Personally, I would like to see Elon release evidence of Trump's taking advantage of Epstein's young girls. I don't need to read or see any of it. I just want to see Trump get dropped like a hot potato. 

Everyone thinks Trump's base wouldn't care about anything he did, but pedophilia is one thing that no one can come back from, not even Trump. I have been thinking for months now that whatever Musk has on Trump it has to be very bad to make Trump kiss his ass the way he did up to now since he took office in January. But we know Trump couldn't keep that up. Eventually he got negative with Elon and Elon struck back.

36 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I have no faith that even video evidence of Trump’s dalliances with Epstein's young girls would do anything to shake his base or the GOP. It’s been an open secret for years how many times Trump's name is all over the flight logs. 

Yes it's not news to me at all but so far it's all been hearsay with no proof so it's easy to dismiss. I think whatever Musk has must be irrefutable evidence or else Trump wouldn't have been letting Musk do what he was doing with DOGE for all these months. I think whatever it is makes Trump worry. I have felt that Trump was humoring Musk because he knew he had to appease him for some reason. And this may be the reason.

Although, if one wants to go even further into theories, even conspiracy theories, I have sometimes wondered if Epstein was murdered to keep him quiet (I know people have debunked that but whoever had it done would have to be rich and powerful enough to make it possible). If so, Musk takes a risk talking like he knows about dirt on Trump because others with power, money and something to hide re: Epstein might worry he has dirt on THEM too.

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Everyone thinks Trump's base wouldn't care about anything he did, but pedophilia is one thing that no one can come back from, not even Trump. I have been thinking for months now that whatever Musk has on Trump it has to be very bad to make Trump kiss his ass the way he did up to now

A plausible (at least, to me) theory is that Elon wanted access to all the public data (because it's valuable) and Elon suggested to Trump that he could get the Epstein data that incriminated Trump and destroy it, and, voilá, a match made in purgatory was born. But Elon kept a copy for security, so he wouldn't wind up like a lot of Trump's other ex's — in prison or buried on a golf course or broke. Elon took some pretty big hits financially and reputation-wise, so if he does have evidence, he wants to at least use his possession of such evidence to flex a bit.

 

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Although, if one wants to go even further into theories, even conspiracy theories, I have sometimes wondered if Epstein was murdered to keep him quiet (I know people have debunked that but whoever had it done would have to be rich and powerful enough to make it possible).

Yeah, I don't think there's "irrefutable" evidence that Epstein wasn't murdered. 

Edited Friday at 03:16 AM by shapeshifter

[Salacious Kitty]

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, isalicat said:

And I can't disagree more about poverty as a root cause of criminality. Doing crime is a *choice*, generally made by people with a fundamental lack of morality and ethics, values that are first taught within the family and ultimately reinforced by societal expectations and when necessary, penalties. My family arrived in the U.S. with absolutely nothing (no English, no financial resources, nothing...) and no one within three generations has yet chosen to flout the law to survive. I work with a multitude of super hardworking immigrant families currently and they are teaching their children to value education and aspiration, not take the easy road of theft or drug dealing. It all starts at home and money, or the lack of it, is not the salient criteria. As our society discourages stable families (and provided financial incentive to have children without a stable family framework in place) and supports victim hood as a way of life, we are reaping what we have sown.

Yes, there are mentally ill people that need intervention and treatment that may do crime - they are a minority of the mentally ill. Yes, there are many anecdotal instances of people wrongly convicted for all sorts of reasons, including corrupt law enforcement, but statistically 99% of people in prison are there through their own poor decisions.

Nonetheless no one is going to convince me that if we all pony up and provide everyone with some sort of basic income, crime will disappear. During the riots that accompanied the demonstrations of the early 2020s a new habit of helping oneself to luxury goods in the course of "fighting for your rights" became a thing which hasn't gone away...tell me those people are looting because they are hungry or can't pay their rent. Nonsense. Moral relativism and the "cushioned class"'s willingness to excuse bad behavior as a result of circumstance is leading to ruin. Civilizations actually fall apart from the foundation, not from the top.

Yeah, despite my better instincts I'm going to respond to this....

You do realize that many criminals come from fine families where they were taught good values...

Being taught good values at home is no guarantee that any person is going to turn out with those same values.

And also, many people with fine values that find themselves in desperate circumstances can go against those values when they feel like they have no better choice.

And theft and drug dealing are not an "easy road" either. Would anyone choose to do those things if they felt they had better legitimate opportunities? Maybe some, but not most. These are people that don't see another way. Whether they're right about that or not is another question, but the point is they wouldn't choose to do those things if they thought they had better options. They may not think those options would work for them even if there were better options. They may not feel like they could do them justice or that the world would let them succeed at them. 

Poor decisions don't happen in a vacuum. Disadvantaged people don't have a wealth of opportunity right in front of them to choose from. If all they see are drugs and violence for them that's the world and the only way to succeed in it is to learn how to survive in it. And that doesn't exactly put you at the top of Maslow's hierarchy in terms of self-actualization. You can't even imagine a world where there are such high level pursuits and satisfactions, especially ones that YOU can choose to do. That's way too much to expect of them.

I come from a similar family. We were actually pretty fortunate even if poor. We're talking about people that are much less fortunate than we were. The only culture they know is one where no one gets anywhere and makes very much money, and just surviving is almost impossible. So their attitude becomes why even bother if the best I can do is that bad? I can understand why they'd want to escape somehow. These are people that don't learn the skills necessary to pull themselves up. But when you're starting from that far down it's a very long way up.

I came from a culture where we were taught to pull ourselves up. But we are talking about people that even if taught that at home don't see how to make it happen in their own lives when they are out in the world. Everything and everyone they see only leads to nothing and nowhere. None of their peers give them any hope either. So of course they look for an way to escape that tragedy. Because there doesn't seem to be any other choice. And looking at things from their perspective, can I blame them? No. I can't.

And people loot for many reasons, one of which is actually survival after a natural disaster. Other reasons can be because they feel wronged and that they deserve things they haven't gotten legitimately. This usually happens in the context of some kind of social issue that brings up those feelings, like a racial issue where someone they identify with was in their view wronged and it devolves into demonstrations and unrest. It can be motivated by retribution for those wrongs. And yes it can be motivated from not having enough money to make ends meet. So it's not just people helping themselves to things because they're entitled and have enough but life's just not perfect enough for them. Not by a long shot.

Also, I can assure you that I have never come from a "cushioned class" nor have I ever believed in any form of moral relativism. In fact, I grew up lower middle class in terms of income. And I know a lot more about moral relativism than the average person because I specialized in Ethics while majoring in Philosophy in college at a Jesuit University. So you can take it to the bank when I say that my position on this does not come from any form of moral relativism whatsoever. And it does not excuse bad behavior either. It seeks to understand bad behavior by understanding people, their feelings and their circumstances. It was the major focus of my graduate studies in Counseling Psychology. And usually when you understand what people are facing you have empathy for them. You don't judge them and blame them. You have compassion. It doesn't mean you excuse their bad behavior, but it does mean you want to help them see that they can find ways to make better choices. In some cases that's much harder and even more impossible than in others.

I thought I was jaded and cynical but it appears that I'm not as bad as I thought I was! 

[Lantern7]

Yesterday, I saw an item on Facebook about how MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred had proposed an appeal system for balls and strikes that would take effect next season. I've been on a roll in posting comments, and my response was, "It could be worse. Trump could have fantasized about putting in a fifth base, and Manfred would’ve made it happen the following week."

I said that some time ago in the MLB. Trump wasn't involved . . . I think Manfred had signed a final contract, and the fifth base would be his way of celebrating. I got good reactions to that back then because we all know each other. Heck, a few of y'all post over there. Anyway, I got one laugh emoji reaction . . . and these comments:

Quote

obsess much. Must be a miserable existence

Quote

might be the worst case if TDS I’ve seen in social media. Imagine what his day must be like thinking Trump is everywhere trying to ruin his life.

Quote

yeah never seen such a stretch [lady facepalm emoji, I think. I can't copy/paste it here]

Quote

TDS is real

Quote

STFU, take your opinions elsewhere. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and the all stink

Quote

I’m sorry for your TDS.

Now . . . was this a political thread? No. Was Manfred pardoning Pete Rose mentioned? No. With that said, it's been 24 hours since I posted, and I'm feeling a little butthurt. I guess I need to be a little more selective about being snarky. I just think Manfred is a punk for acquiescing to Trump about Rose, and that's just one example of why he sucks as a commissioner.

[Soapy Goddess]

15 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And I don't see what Trump and MAGA as trying to help the poor. No, in fact just the opposite. They are leaving the poor out in the cold. Up shit's creek without a paddle. And this is somehow going to improve society as a whole? Society needs to be looked at as a whole, not only in terms of "what's good for me" because the stuff you don't care about will come back to bite you in the butt in in the form of more crime and poverty, which affects us all. The very rich like Trump don't GAF if we have to put up with more crime. He'll just insulate himself with his money. As long as he gets out his revenge on whoever he's scapegoating he's good. But we ALL pay for that in the end. Turning one's back on the poor and blaming them comes back to us eventually. We're all in this together.

I understand and agree. The only difference for me is that I'd like to see us help our own citizens before we help others (choosing my words carefully). IOW, instead of providing housing, medical, etc. for others, why aren't we helping our own home deficient (IYKWIM)?  Shouldn't we be trying to get these poor people off the streets before helping others? it's akin to putting your oxygen mask on before you help your child put theirs on.

15 hours ago, Yeah No said:

In whose opinion is someone "able bodied"? A lot of people suffer from mental conditions that go undiagnosed too. More money would have to be spend deciding just who is and isn't "worthy" of receiving such benefits and in my opinion if the Right has any say in the matter more excuses will be found to deny people truly in need than to grant them coverage.

Again, I agree. And as you pointed out, we have a LOT of our own citizens that need help. But IMO the previous administration was more about helping "others" first, rather than helping the poor American citizens just trying to make ends meet. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if we could just figure out a way to help our own citizens first, maybe then we could help so many more.

[Soapy Goddess]

15 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I don't understand - are you saying poor disadvantaged people are criminals?  I root for fairness in our system.

No, I'm not. And thank you for not pouncing. I'm trying to choose my words carefully and obviously not doing a good job. Please see my response above to "yeah no". I'm happy to revisit if you have further questions.

Meanwhile, Yes. I would love if there was fairness for all. I still have faith in humanity even though things aren't exactly as I personally would like them to be.

[Soapy Goddess]

9 hours ago, tessaray said:

Haven't we always known Trump and Epstein were friends? Even if Elon has video, would the faithful care? They'd just call it a deepfake.

The faithful DO care. If Elon had video he'd already have it up & running.

Trump had permanently banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago for hitting on a teenage daughter of a club member, according to a book, "The Grifter's Club." 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/trump-banned-jeffrey-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html

 

[Soapy Goddess]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Everyone thinks Trump's base wouldn't care about anything he did, but pedophilia is one thing that no one can come back from, not even Trump. 

If Elon really believed that was a pedophile, why would he always have his son, X, around Trump all the time at the White House? 

And for the record, I DO care...and agree that pedophilia is no laughing matter.

 

[tres bien]

The BBB will pass there are not enough MAGAs that are willing to vote against Trump

 

Edited Friday at 11:36 AM by tres bien

[lookeyloo]

14 minutes ago, tres bien said:

The BBB will pass there are not enough MAGAs that are willing to vote against Trump

 

Exactly. And even the ones on the fence will have had a phone call. 

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

gain, I agree. And as you pointed out, we have a LOT of our own citizens that need help. But IMO the previous administration was more about helping "others" first, rather than helping the poor American citizens just trying to make ends meet. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if we could just figure out a way to help our own citizens first, maybe then we could help so many more.

Some of the ways to help our own citizens could be to provide adequate medical and mental health care including to veterans. Another way could be to make sure people aren't hungry - there are not food banks everywhere. Another way could be to provide even basic housing. Just some ways. Yet the BBB is designed to eliminate all of that.  Someone on a podcast said the billionaires who are getting the tax break are so rich they won't  even notice it. 

[Bookish Jen]

Awww, Musk and Trump are breaking up, and during Pride Month. I wonder who will get custody of JD Vance. Oh, that's right. Peter Thiel.

[PRgal]

7 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He can’t stand people who are much better looking than he is. 

[bluegirl147]

36 minutes ago, tres bien said:

The BBB will pass there are not enough MAGAs that are willing to vote against Trump

 

I don't know if it will pass in it's current form.  If it's true they  need 60 votes it will not pass. 

23 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

And even the ones on the fence will have had a phone call. 

They will probably be getting two phone calls now.  Trump and Musk. If Musk was willing to sink millions into propping up Trump you don't think he will be willing to sink millions into bringing him down?

 

Republican Senators are now cautiously looking into messing with Medicare to help fund the massive tax cut for the rich.  If they really want to rein in Medicare spending let's start with the providers who overbill and commit other fraud.  You know, like their fellow Senator Rick Scott.  He could even tell them where to look.

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

If Elon really believed that was a pedophile, why would he always have his son, X, around Trump all the time at the White House? 

As far as I know Trump has never been suspected of anything to do with little boys.  His interest has always been young girls.  

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

The faithful DO care. If Elon had video he'd already have it up & running.

For every Trump supporter who would care there would be two who would say deep fake, fake news.

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Meanwhile, Yes. I would love if there was fairness for all. I still have faith in humanity even though things aren't exactly as I personally would like them to be.

It doesn't help when Republicans (politicians and those that vote for them) continue to vote for policies that continue the unfairness and vote against policies that would help things being more fair.  This big ugly bill is a perfect example.  Massive give away to the rich and nothing for everyone else.

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I said that some time ago in the MLB. Trump wasn't involved .

Any time Trump sticks his nose in sports it just causes more divisiveness.  He was recently in Pittsburgh for the steel tariff announcement and two current Steelers and one retired HOFer Steeler was there with him on stage.  It caused such an uproar the Steelers had to issue a press release pretty much saying those players don't speak for us.  And then of course there was the whole kneeling for the national anthem thing.  And I'm not entirely convinced Tom Brady's support of Trump isn't what broke up his marriage to Gisele.

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, I don't think there's "irrefutable" evidence that Epstein wasn't murdered. 

One thing I would bet money on is Epstein did not kill himself. So either he is still alive on some island somewhere or he was murdered.

13 hours ago, jessiebell said:

Secondly the new steel tariffs.  Sure they'll help the Pittsburgh steel company but hurt all those industries that use steel or aluminum such anyone that uses cans like the drink and food industry, car manufacturers, home builders.   I would guess there's alot more people employed in those industries than in the steel company.  Plus the number of steel workers has steadily declined not mostly because of foreign steel but through automation.

Steel workers are the new coal miners. Trump will parade them out and promise to bring steel back.  It's all a performance for him.  I live in coal and steel country and the Trump supporters would rather believe the pathological liar who continues to string them along than anyone that tells them the truth and wants to  help them move on from industries that are not sustainable.

 

2 minutes ago, PRgal said:

He can’t stand people who are much better looking than he is. 

He can't stand people that have a darker skin than him.

[tearknee]

Of course there is a reason the Great Society and the New Deal passed and Build Back Better did not:

 

[DrSpaceman73]

6 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I understand and agree. The only difference for me is that I'd like to see us help our own citizens before we help others (choosing my words carefully). IOW, instead of providing housing, medical, etc. for others, why aren't we helping our own home deficient (IYKWIM)?  Shouldn't we be trying to get these poor people off the streets before helping others? it's akin to putting your oxygen mask on before you help your child put theirs on.

 

But trump and maga isn't doing that either in their plans.  They're cutting snap cut federal aid programs refusing fema assistance cutting Medicaid.  Cutting research. Cutting veterans programs. 

 

Maga doesnt seem to want to help anyone anywhere if possible. 

[tres bien]

The BBB will be tweaked but it will pass

Any tweaking will be acceptable to congressional MAGAs 

Their new poster child will be Joni Ernst and their new mantra will be “We’re all going to die”

Edited Friday at 01:31 PM by tres bien

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

If Elon really believed that was a pedophile, why would he always have his son, X, around Trump all the time at the White House? 

And for the record, I DO care...and agree that pedophilia is no laughing matter.

 

I’d like to insert, here, that ‘son X’ was not being shown fatherly love when he was displayed on the teevees. On at least one occasion Musk wandered away and forgot him, and we know now that Musk was using drugs. X’s mother objected to his being displayed.  X will likely object to this when he gets older. I assume, unlike a president’s child, that he hasn’t the security and because Musk is rich, is potentially in danger of kidnapping, so having him displayed in this way is irresponsible.  Some of Musk’s adult children have called him an abusive, bad parent. The boy was being used as a prop, and no attention was being paid to him otherwise. 

That said, having the child in the same room as Trump, in front of television cameras, doesn’t indicate Trump isn’t a pedophile.  I don’t think there is any indication that ‘grandpa trump’ was babysitting, or has any interest in very young children.

1 hour ago, Bookish Jen said:

Awww, Musk and Trump are breaking up, and during Pride Month. I wonder who will get custody of JD Vance. Oh, that's right. Peter Thiel.

Musk is pushing Vance for president. This will not be better. Trump doesn’t actually have an agenda or beliefs, beyond keeping up a smokescreen so no one will notice what an incredible loser he really is. Vance does have things he wants to do to us, and it isn’t pretty.

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I understand and agree. The only difference for me is that I'd like to see us help our own citizens before we help others (choosing my words carefully). IOW, instead of providing housing, medical, etc. for others, why aren't we helping our own home deficient (IYKWIM)?  Shouldn't we be trying to get these poor people off the streets before helping others? it's akin to putting your oxygen mask on before you help your child put theirs on.

Again, I agree. And as you pointed out, we have a LOT of our own citizens that need help. But IMO the previous administration was more about helping "others" first, rather than helping the poor American citizens just trying to make ends meet. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if we could just figure out a way to help our own citizens first, maybe then we could help so many more.

Medicaid and Medicare and the ACL help a huge number of citizens. Planned Parenthood helps a huge number of citizens. Having neighborhood health centers helps citizens. Having traumatized women who have had miscarriages pursued by law inforcement will not help these women. SNAP feeds children. Headstart helps children do better in life. Tuition loan reimbursement helps people move on, buy houses, earn money to pay for tuition for their own children. Sadly, though, time moves on. Steel jobs are not coming back to the rust belt in great numbers, a lot of the jobs moved to the south and southwest before they ‘moved overseas’. If AI uses Pennsylvania as it’s energy hub, it will do so at the expense of the health of the people that live there. Increasing coal mining jobs, the same. The country needsd federal programs that specialize in things like disaster relief, because disasters help all over and without warning. 

Having immigrants enriching our population and culture, hey, especially scientists and technologists and doctors, really benefits our citizens.

So, yes, there are a lot of people who are dead ended, in some way, and i’m sorry, and we should try to help them. Many do end up being helped by things like snap and medicaid and welfare, when they need it.  But someone like Trump is not going to wave their hand and make their farm profitable and Trumps tariffs have already stopped the development of new factories in places like Erie Pennsylania, so not helping with that either. In other words, poor person scraping along in small town in an area with few prospects, this isn’t helping them, and it is taking away the few things that did help.

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I understand and agree. The only difference for me is that I'd like to see us help our own citizens before we help others (choosing my words carefully). IOW, instead of providing housing, medical, etc. for others, why aren't we helping our own home deficient (IYKWIM)?  Shouldn't we be trying to get these poor people off the streets before helping others? it's akin to putting your oxygen mask on before you help your child put theirs on.

I think there's a big difference between helping citizens first and leaving out in the cold anyone that isn't a citizen. And that's what it's come down to with Trump and MAGA. When you help everyone no one is left out in the cold. You can't be picky and choosy about who gets helped because in the end we all pay for it one way or another. Hospitals don't turn injured people away no matter what their immigration status is so in the end we all pay. Not to mention the ethics of turning people away based on citizenship, which aren't good either. The Founding Fathers were very clear that anyone on US soil had rights and right now it looks very clear to me that Trump wants to take a lot of those rights away from non-citizens whether they are legal here or not.

8 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Again, I agree. And as you pointed out, we have a LOT of our own citizens that need help. But IMO the previous administration was more about helping "others" first, rather than helping the poor American citizens just trying to make ends meet. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if we could just figure out a way to help our own citizens first, maybe then we could help so many more.

I don't think anyone should feel left out or cheated, especially citizens, but I'm not convinced that there has been any favoritism shown to non-citizens. In fact I have read that the facts wouldn't support that. And I'm sure one of our "bullet point" people here can enumerate them. I don't know if it's a myth that non-citizens get favored so I can't speak to that. I just think that any help to non-citizens is being taken as depriving citizens of better help. But again this is a big picture thing and denying non-citizens help comes back to hurt us all in the end. I just think what MAGA has become leaves people out in the cold that need help and I'm not for that no matter what their immigration status. Maybe some creative solutions need to be found.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

The faithful DO care. If Elon had video he'd already have it up & running.

Trump had permanently banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago for hitting on a teenage daughter of a club member, according to a book, "The Grifter's Club." 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/trump-banned-jeffrey-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html

I don't agree that Elon would already have a video up and running. If he has one he'd rather keep it for leverage and power over Trump for the time being. It's more valuable to him as a threat right now.

And just because Trump barred someone from Mar-a-Lago for hitting on an underage girl isn't proof that he wouldn't do something like that in private on an island away from the prying eyes of the public.

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

If Elon really believed that was a pedophile, why would he always have his son, X, around Trump all the time at the White House? 

And for the record, I DO care...and agree that pedophilia is no laughing matter.

Trump may be a lot of things but first of all he's almost 80 and no threat to anyone at this point I'm sure. But also I don't get the sense that his tastes run to young boys either. And Elon may know more about that than we do!

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Exactly. And even the ones on the fence will have had a phone call. 

Some of the ways to help our own citizens could be to provide adequate medical and mental health care including to veterans. Another way could be to make sure people aren't hungry - there are not food banks everywhere. Another way could be to provide even basic housing. Just some ways. Yet the BBB is designed to eliminate all of that.  Someone on a podcast said the billionaires who are getting the tax break are so rich they won't  even notice it. 

What gets me is that if there weren't so many tax cuts and shelters for the very rich, the rest of us wouldn't be squabbling about whether citizens are being cheated out of services in favor of non-citizens or who really deserves Medicaid, etc. There would be enough public money to make everyone feel adequately addressed. Trump is telling his base that he's looking to take money from people that don't "deserve it" and give it to them when he's really not doing that at all. He's taking it from anyone that isn't rich and giving it to the rich. Why his base is blind to this can only be explained by the cult of Trump.

[peacheslatour]

13 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't agree that Elon would already have a video up and running. If he has one he'd rather keep it for leverage and power over Trump for the time being. It's more valuable to him as a threat right now.

And just because Trump barred someone from Mar-a-Lago for hitting on an underage girl isn't proof that he wouldn't do something like that in private on an island away from the prying eyes of the public.

Trump may be a lot of things but first of all he's almost 80 and no threat to anyone at this point I'm sure. But also I don't get the sense that his tastes run to young boys either. And Elon may know more about that than we do!

Correct. Even pedophiles have their types and with Trump, it's never been boys. Always girls, so X was never in any danger from that. But he was in danger if anyone took a shot at Elon. There would be a possibility they could hit X. How totally irresponsible for Elon to drag that kid around and put a target on him that way.

[lookeyloo]

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

What gets me is that if there weren't so many tax cuts and shelters for the very rich, the rest of us wouldn't be squabbling about whether citizens are being cheated out of services in favor of non-citizens or who really deserves Medicaid, etc. There would be enough public money to make everyone feel adequately addressed. Trump is telling his base that he's looking to take money from people that don't "deserve it" and give it to them when he's really not doing that at all. He's taking it from anyone that isn't rich and giving it to the rich. Why his base is blind to this can only be explained by the cult of Trump.

If you ever watch interviews with some fake journalists and they try to get these folks to see what is going on, the folks are entrenched in their beliefs.  I think that as long as some of these policy changes don't affect them personally, they are "sticking it to the libs" or a variation.  I hate when they say "Democrat" party.  I like to counter with "Republic" party.  A lot of these people aren't on Medicaid right now, don't have kids in public schools, don't think they know any LGBTQ people, go to a church that tells them they are right, so nothing today will matter to them and they don't have the greater good in their sights at all.  A lot of these people have been part of many groups over the years which have been grooming them towards this kind of belief system.  Project 2025 wasn't developed in a day.