Chit-Chat: The Feels

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Appreciate the article, but since it's a replacement for AFO and will be used in that capacity during his tenure, I don't see what all the uproar is about.

It’s complicated, but as a retired reference librarian whose job was to meet information needs, I found this, but the source is not great, so “take it with a grain of salt” and then maybe “throw a handful of salt over your shoulder for good luck” as my Mom used to laugh about doing, but this does seem to be the instance in which “even a broken clock is right twice a day”:

• “…Simply put, Qatar created a closed system where it influenced all parties to the negotiation.

  “The consequences have been significant. Hostage families advised by consultants with hidden Qatari ties and U.S. officials influenced by Qatari-funded lobbying pushed Israel to accept terms favorable to Hamas. Throughout this crisis, Qatar protected Hamas leadership while maintaining the appearance of neutrality.…” (meforum.org/mef-observer/how-qatar-made-itself-crucial-to-israel-hamas-hostage-mediation).

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Devil's advocate:  But if it doesn't go to his library, then it's okay?

So, no.

Plus, Qatar (would-be gifter of the $400-million "luxury" plane) does have an established history of financially supporting Hamas: 
wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_support_for_Hamas

I have my own thoughts on why this matters, but not any that I care to share here or anywhere.

Edited May 13 by shapeshifter

[Affogato]

https://cleantechnica.com/2025/05/12/more-tesla-woes-emerged-over-the-weekend/
 

quote:

So, too, did Tesla employee trainer and manager Matthew Labrot, who set up a website called “Tesla Employees Against Elon.” It offered an open letter to the company to replace Musk as CEO. Labrot feels that Musk’s political views diminished Tesla sales and that Tesla’s leadership did not sufficiently guide employees on how to handle “protests and vandalism” against the company.

Yet Labrot was reportedly fired by Tesla for his actions, which included spray painting his Cybertruck with anti-Musk messages. He was dismissed for “using company resources to build a website that did not align with the company’s perspective,” a Business Insider article explains. “I was very happy with my position, and I could have continued to work in that role my whole life,” Labrot said.

[DrSpaceman73]

Saw a bumper sticker yesterday on a Tesla that was something anti musk. Like tesla owners against musk or something like that. A bit odd but I get it. 

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

From the article: 

If the plane goes to Trump's presidential library after he leaves office, "then it's not really a gift to the United States at all."

Briffault says accepting the plane would constitute a personal gift and a "pretty textbook case of a violation of the Emoluments Clause." Like other ethics experts, he worries it could lead to Trump feeling beholden to the Qatari government.

Devil's advocate:  But if it doesn't go to his library, then it's okay?

You have to see that Trump rewards people who do him favors and punishes those that do not. A huge garish plane demands special treatment to the givers. As he would say ‘what a beautiful gift’. 
 

so it isn’t okay. It would influence his judgement. 

1 minute ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Saw a bumper sticker yesterday on a Tesla that was something anti musk. Like tesla owners against musk or something like that. A bit odd but I get it. 

A lot of people bought them before they realized stuff. 

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I have agreed with a few here who know how to have a discussion without being snarky about it. How would you like it if I kept harping on you to agree with ME that it wasn't the right thing to do by allowing millions of undocumented immigrants into our country? How would you like it if I insisted that you give me an answer as to why he did it? 

Your approach is not conducive to eliciting the type of response you're looking for. A discussion is "give & take"...not "I demand answers". 

Except I would actually have an answer to that question if you were to ask me my thoughts on that topic. I wouldn't sit here and dance around it and play coy and act like I don't know what you're really asking, or continue to say things that have already been proven numerous times to not be true. Which is precisely why some of the response get snarky.

And if simply asking you why it's okay for Trump to break the laws that you expect immigrants to abide by is "demanding answers", then I don't know what else to say. Except that tha't really not a difficult question to answer. Or shouldn't be, anyway. 

Edited May 13 by Annber03

[Browncoat]

Funny thing, Biden didn't keep his Air Force One plane after he left office.  Neither did Obama, or any other president who had one.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

From the article: 

If the plane goes to Trump's presidential library after he leaves office, "then it's not really a gift to the United States at all."

Briffault says accepting the plane would constitute a personal gift and a "pretty textbook case of a violation of the Emoluments Clause." Like other ethics experts, he worries it could lead to Trump feeling beholden to the Qatari government.

Devil's advocate:  But if it doesn't go to his library, then it's okay?

No, it doesn't make it OK. There are many other reasons it's not OK, such as have been pointed out about Qatar's support of Hamas and their interest in Trump's business dealings there. I don't know why I even have to justify this when if any Democrat did anything even close to this Republicans (and I'm sure most Democrats) would be screaming about it to high heaven. This kind and level of gift to our country is unprecedented and there's a reason you never heard about a president accepting something like this. It's not OK for a lot of reasons not the least of which it looks bad for a president/country to accept a gift like this from a country that has motive to expect them to favor them in return in either business or public dealings. I don't see why I have to justify that as it's been the rule of our land for centuries now. It doesn't look good for other countries to see this and draw their own negative conclusions about it.

I just can't get over how just because people object to something Trump wants to do there has to be something wrong with it. I don't have my head up my ass about politicians and I don't side with Democrats if I think they're off base. But here they're definitely NOT just looking for something to hold against Trump (not that they have to try hard to find something), especially when many Republicans are expressing big reservations about the ethics and practicality of accepting this gift.

More Republicans expressing reservations:

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5296559-trump-qatar-jet-senate-gop/

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Then the delusion applies to both sides because Dems had TDS even before his first term. Some of it warranted, but a lot stimulated by the media. Opposing parties will never agree on the same thing by sheer definition. Sure we can point out the differences, but it will never change one's mind to the point of being in total unison.

All this is very unfortunate for our country and for families of differing parties. My own sister refuses to even discuss the issues. But shutting down is not the answer. We need to talk like adults. We don't have to agree, but for the sake of humanity, we have to stop hating one another. Hate is not the way to get someone to even listen, never mind come to some sort of agreement.

The thing is, I see Republicans twisting definitions to make anything Trump does OK, no matter how ridiculous or far fetched he gets. I don't do that when it comes to politicians or anyone. I haven't changed on what I think is and isn't OK about ANYTHING. In fact, if Trump did something good I wouldn't be against giving him credit for it. He's proposing to eliminate the tax on Social Security. I am for that. I can't think of much else right now because for the most part he gives with one hand and takes away with the other. Everything he proposes that sounds good is somehow canceled out by something else he's doing on that issue. Like Medicaid. He's asked drug companies to lower prices. Sounds good, right? And yet he's proposing doing more to hurt people receiving Medicaid that would cancel this out. His base tends not to see stuff like that, though. They see the good things but don't count how they are either diminished or canceled out altogether by the bad things.

I agree that we need to talk but whenever I try to talk about this with right leaning people that want to defend Trump they are not willing and even outright REFUSE to continue the conversation to let me show them the other side of the coin with Trump and no matter how much evidence is presented to support it they will shut down the conversation altogether. You haven't been as bad as that but it's still been frustrating for me.

I don't understand why Trump supporters have to assume he is right or justified and have a default position of thinking he's OK and the criticizers are not. I don't get that. I don't operate like that when it comes to Democrats or any politicians. I don't support them just because they're someone I like or who I think represents my cause. I pay attention to what they're doing and if I think it needs to be criticized or not ethical or otherwise acceptable I won't support it, and I have stood by that. But where Trump supporters are concerned all rational thinking seems to be put on the side in order to defend him, like they assume that anyone criticizing him is wrong right off the bat and doesn't deserve to be listened to or respected. It's ridiculous already considering how selfish and self-serving he has shown himself to be. Like why would anyone think someone like that has THEIR best interests at heart? What kind of Kool-Aid are they drinking? I don't let ANY public figure do that to me no matter their political affiliation. You talk about "TDS" - the derangement syndrome I see is on the Republican side in favor of Trump and against Democrats, not the other way around!

[Dimity]

13 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

You talk about "TDS" - the derangement syndrome I see is on the Republican side in favor of Trump and against Democrats, not the other way around!

To quote Adam Schiff "the corruption is brazen".  If Trump's supporters aren't seeing it it's not because it's not there, it's because they choose to overlook it.  I am confident that eventually there will be a day of reckoning, in all likelihood not for Teflon Don but for many who are currently in his orbit.  Sadly, the day of reckoning is already here for most Americans and a good chunk of the rest of the world.

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Like Medicaid. He's asked drug companies to lower prices. Sounds good, right? And yet he's proposing doing more to hurt people receiving Medicaid that would cancel this out

One of his first acts when he took office was to remove the cap that had been placed on the cost of insulin.  Anyone who thinks he cares one iota what people have to pay to access medical care or medication is living in a fool's paradise.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Saw a bumper sticker yesterday on a Tesla that was something anti musk. Like tesla owners against musk or something like that. A bit odd but I get it. 

I've seen a few that said something like "We bought this before he was weird."

[shapeshifter]

Sometimes AI works well for the "a picture is worth a thousand words" adage, as with this Trojan horse jet:

[PRgal]

PM Mark Carney's new cabinet.  There are many familiar names, including Chrystia Freeland in transport and Melanie Joly, who is now the Minister of Industry as well as Canada Economic Development for Quebec.  There are 11 women in cabinet positions and 13 men.

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't understand why Trump supporters have to assume he is right or justified and have a default position of thinking he's OK and the criticizers are not.

Because it is a cult.

And while it sounds good Trump wants to lower prescription drug prices if that does occur and insurance companies pay less for them (for those of us that have insurance) does anyone really think they will pass those savings on to us in the form of lower premiums and copays?  Let's see which lobby wins.  Big Pharma or Big Insurance? 

[tearknee]

10 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Because it is a cult.

 

The Greens global political movement is a mixture of a neo-Luddite cult and reheated leftovers from the old communist movement.

[peacheslatour]

Double post.

Edited May 13 by peacheslatour
Oops

[Bookish Jen]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Funny thing, Biden didn't keep his Air Force One plane after he left office.  Neither did Obama, or any other president who had one.

Trump kept sensitive documents and refused to give them back. So it's not surprising he'd keep this plane after he leaves office.

 

[bluegirl147]

Having watched the West Wing multiple times I thought presidents (even Republican ones) would mostly follow the rules.  Or at least publicly pretend to follow them.  But not Trump.  He acts like a dictator or King depending on the day.  And his party goes along because they want the power of being adjacent to him.  And they fear his retribution.  But it's his supporters who go along with him that make me want to scream.  Do they really think it's OK for him to keep a $400 million dollar plane for himself?  And it will be for him or most likely his family because he will be dead.  It's not going to some presidential library.  Where would Trump's library even be?  On one of his golf courses?  In a wing of Mar a Lago? If I'm  not mistaken former presidents have to fund their own libraries through their foundations or donations or whatever.  So knowing him Trump he will collect millions and keep those millions and his library will be a single room in Trump Tower or something.  He is going to grift till he is dead.

[willco]

20 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Nixon would have never resigned if not for his own party telling him we are going to impeach you. Back then some in the Republican party actually put country over party.  Novel concept I know.

This is the thing I just can't believe we're seeing ! I sure wish the Republicans of today had the balls to call Trump what he is : a crook and a liar. At least Congress back in the Nixon days had the decency to tell the truth and admit Nixon was doing wrong !

[fairffaxx]

Barry Goldwater, Howard Baker, John Dean -- I'm pretty sure that those guys, & other Republican politicians, would not have been afraid to speak up now as they did during Watergate.

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It makes me wonder if some of these ideas come from Mr. Musk, even though he has been keeping a low profile lately.

Oh, definitely; Musk championed this - classifying Afrikaners as "refugees" and taking their poor, persecuted souls in - on social media fairly early on in the nightmare that is this term.

[Lisa418722]

It will probably take close to the rest of his administration to get this plane up to par to be used as AFO.  Then, if the plane goes to Trump's presidential library after he leaves office (rather than leaving it for the next president as AFO), will it be like the planes at Graceland, where you can tour them? 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Lisa418722 said:

will it be like the planes at Graceland, where you can tour them? 

For a fee of course.

[ProudMary]

11 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Appreciate the article, but since it's a replacement for AFO and will be used in that capacity during his tenure, I don't see what all the uproar is about.

How about Presidential security? Does that give you pause?

A free plane? Trump's Air Force One plan could be an expensive 'security nightmare.'

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-qatar-air-force-one-security-concerns-2025-5

"It's going to cost an exorbitant amount of money to get that up to standard with a plane gifted by a foreign government," he told Business Insider.

The specially configured version of Boeing's 747-200B, built to transport the president of the United States, is a highly recognizable aircraft with its iconic livery that has become synonymous with the Air Force One call sign. It is fitted with secure communications equipment and can refuel mid-flight.

The plane is also equipped with electronic warfare capabilities and missile countermeasures.

...

Once the Qatari 747 is eventually received by the Air Force, assuming the transfer takes place, it would need to be modified and essentially militarized by the Pentagon to meet the requirements of transporting a president — a high-stakes job that is unlikely to be cheap.

"The idea of getting it from a foreign government, you literally would have to tear it apart piece by piece," said Polymeropoulos, now a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. He said acquiring this 747 isn't cost-effective because it would be expensive for the government and military to retrofit the aircraft to bring the plane up to the necessary standards.

"I suppose you can, but basically, you're building a whole new plane," he said.

...

Joseph LaSorsa, a former Secret Service agent who protected several presidents during his 20-year-long career, identified multiple potential concerns with acquiring the 747.

LaSorsa, president and CEO of J.A. LaSorsa & Associates, told BI that these possible risks include sabotage to the 747's mechanical or operational features, tracking of the aircraft, and any surveillance through audio or video recording devices. He stressed that the American government would thoroughly examine the entire plane in a process that could take up to a year or longer.

"They're going to do their due diligence, if they do, in fact, use it," he said, but that's time and money.

 

[anony.miss]

10 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Devil's advocate:  But if it doesn't go to his library, then it's okay?

No. Aside from the  illegality of Trump accepting the plane (the Emoluments clause of the Constitution) and the  "America is for sale" gifting-as-grifting vibe, accepting the plane is untenable b/c it's a massive security risk. There's no way to ensure the plane is safe (from spyware,  control of the plane being overridden, etc) without stripping the plane down to its very bolts and rebuilding it. That security risk becomes even more profound given Qatar funds Hamas.

eta: @ProudMary - jinx! I owe you a coke ; )

Edited May 13 by anony.miss

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Do they really think it's OK for him to keep a $400 million dollar plane for himself? 

Fearless prediction - the next time a Dem is in the White House they will scream and cry and tear their hair out if another country so much as gives the sitting president a souvenir spoon. 

[annzeepark914]

Peachy asks: "When did raising your baby become political taboo?" I'll tell ya, Peachy. It's when you all start pushing out babies at the request of your cult's leaders (Trump, Miller, Vought, etc). This is really sick. These are the same type of people who followed that guy to Guyana and drank poisoned Kool Aid (after giving it first to their little kids). The level of education makes no damn difference when it comes to falling into cults.

[bluegirl147]

Mrs Clarence Thomas was in cult. She had to be deprogrammed.  Seems old habits die hard.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-cult-member-ginni-thomas-indulging-far-right-conspiracies-2022-6

 

 

[Lantern7]

I also thought about turning the plane into a tourist attraction. If people compare it to the Statue of Liberty, then why not charge them to look over the airplane that is also a mansion? Heck, set up a Museum of Wretched Excess around it.

@annzeepark914 . . . who is “Peachy”? I associate that nickname with Jeff Probst from Survivor.

Edited May 13 by Lantern7

[annzeepark914]

22 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Mrs Clarence Thomas was in cult. She had to be deprogrammed.  Seems old habits die hard.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-cult-member-ginni-thomas-indulging-far-right-conspiracies-2022-6

 

 

Mega lack of critical thinking skills. 

4 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

@annzeepark914 . . . who is “Peachy”? I associate that nickname with Jeff Probst from Survivor.

She's in the link about Maga moms posted by BookishJen ^^^^

[jessiebell]

So the Qatar plane is sitting in San Antonio, TX.  Trump toured it back in Feb when it was near/at Palm Beach.  

The jet is actually going to be free since millions (some estimates $40 million or more) to bring it up to Air Force One Security standars.   We can't spend money on cancer research or head start or food programs or the myraid of things DOGE/Trump eliminated/halted but we can spend millions on this and that birthday celebration parade for Trump which is masquerading as a salute to the military.

How is this a gift for the US if Trump gets to keep it?

How does it not violate the Constitution clause on not accepting gifts from Kings, foreign states?

Remember how money money was spent investigating Hunter for being on the board of Burisma or selling artwork?  But hey the Trump boys were just in Qatar or UAR getting business deals for the Trump Organization.  And there's all that crypto business including buy a million and get dinner with Trump.

Since Qatar financially supported Hamas (to the tune of a billion dollars) and Hamas leadership has lived in Qatar can we now say Trump and Republicans (who of course find nothing wrong with the plane deal) now support Hamas?

[annzeepark914]

It seems like they support only the evil doers on the planet these days. Trump, et al, treat our long time allies like dirt. 

[ProudMary]

Eat up, big guy!

https://bsky.app/profile/onestpress.onestnetwork.com/post/3lp2lz5lndc2y

 

[Dimity]

In some positive news on the Canadian election front - our previous government started a Dental Plan that the Cons (of course) tried to vote down. 

They had a change of heart at the 11th hour and claimed they wouldn't cancel it even though they had insisted they would - until they realized they were losing the election and started making promises I think they had no intention of keeping - anyway all this to say thankfully the Libs won and I just got my letter from the govt telling me I qualify for the dental plan!  Huzzah and hurray!!!

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Why should sports leagues bend a knee?

Because their billionaire owners want to make sure Trump cuts their taxes.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

In case you didn't hear, the commissioner of MLB reinstated a bunch of previously-banned players, including Pete Rose. This comes after a certain fat-fingered fathead said Rose shouldn't be banned anymore.

Honestly, Trump has very little to do with this. There's been talk ever since Pete Rose died about changing his status. MLB and the HoF have been pretty hypocritical when it comes to punishing Pete while others who used steroids or have been found cheating in other ways are not on the banned list. 

It also doesn't mean he will get into the HoF. It only means he is eligible. It'll be up to the voters if Pete gets in. 

[Eri]

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Eat up, big guy!

https://bsky.app/profile/onestpress.onestnetwork.com/post/3lp2lz5lndc2y

 

And while they're providing the red carpet treatment - he's wooing foreign investors with $142b arms deals (and likely secure more military contracts for tech bros like Altman and Musk).

It's a real payday for the world's most corrupt and the wealthy these next 4 years -sigh-

Edited May 14 by Eri

[StatisticalOutlier]

20 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It only means he is eligible. It'll be up to the voters if Pete gets in. 

You'll forgive me if I'm a little disenchanted with voters right now.

[shapeshifter]

In more news:

• “Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-Mich.) on Tuesday started the clock for the House to vote on his seven articles of impeachment against President Trump.
  
  “House Democrats erupted into fury and profane invective Tuesday as Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-Mich.) forced a vote on his rogue efforts to impeach President Trump.

  “Why it matters: The vote could be tough for many Democrats, who feel impeachment is politically foolish but are facing demands from their grassroots to mirror Trump's shock-and-awe tactics.”

   https://www.axios.com/2025/05/13/trump-impeachment-house-democrat-vote-thanedar

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

You'll forgive me if I'm a little disenchanted with voters right now.

The Baseball HoF voters are a pretty strict bunch. I don't think any of the big names that were caught juicing in the early aughts have made the cut. Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and Roger Clemens have all failed to get enough votes. Stats don't matter when you are a known cheater.

[Soapy Goddess]

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Except I would actually have an answer to that question if you were to ask me my thoughts on that topic. I wouldn't sit here and dance around it and play coy and act like I don't know what you're really asking, or continue to say things that have already been proven numerous times to not be true. Which is precisely why some of the response get snarky.

And if simply asking you why it's okay for Trump to break the laws that you expect immigrants to abide by is "demanding answers", then I don't know what else to say. Except that tha't really not a difficult question to answer. Or shouldn't be, anyway. 

Not playing coy at all. I know exactly what's being asked of me, but I have no desire to argue. There have been times when I'm tempted to express my feelings, but decide against it because people like to nit pick every word and/or sentence. I have shared my opinions many times in the past, only to be piled on. 

That said, things seem to have gotten better for opposition, but I'm still the lone wolf here. Ever wonder why there aren't any other Reps willing to express their opinions? I realize SM isn't exactly your HS debate team, but respectful, non-judgmental dialogue is always appreciated. SM is notorious for judging people. Say the wrong thing, and the masses will pounce and not let up until you agree with them.

To that end, only one person really "knows" me (she knows who she is), and I very much appreciate her willingness to have spirited debate without judgement.

Edited May 14 by Soapy Goddess

[Soapy Goddess]

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

He's proposing to eliminate the tax on Social Security. I am for that.

Yes, that would be great for a lot of us here.

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I agree that we need to talk but whenever I try to talk about this with right leaning people that want to defend Trump they are not willing and even outright REFUSE to continue the conversation to let me show them the other side of the coin with Trump and no matter how much evidence is presented to support it they will shut down the conversation altogether. You haven't been as bad as that but it's still been frustrating for me.

I understand your frustration, which is why I'm willing to take a hit for you 😉But seriously, I get it. And I actually appreciate your explanations. Especially because they don't contain snarky rhetorical questions. This does NOT mean I don't like questions...because that's how we all learn. But sometimes I honestly don't have any answers!

For instance, if someone says "do you think Trump is above the law?" FFS...of course, he's not above the law! What kind of an asinine comeback is that? Thanks for saying I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone here is inherently a bad person. I might use other adjectives, but I'll refrain for now (just kidding people!)

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't understand why Trump supporters have to assume he is right or justified and have a default position of thinking he's OK and the criticizers are not. I don't get that. I don't operate like that when it comes to Democrats or any politicians. I don't support them just because they're someone I like or who I think represents my cause. I pay attention to what they're doing and if I think it needs to be criticized or not ethical or otherwise acceptable I won't support it, and I have stood by that. But where Trump supporters are concerned all rational thinking seems to be put on the side in order to defend him, like they assume that anyone criticizing him is wrong right off the bat and doesn't deserve to be listened to or respected. It's ridiculous already considering how selfish and self-serving he has shown himself to be. Like why would anyone think someone like that has THEIR best interests at heart? What kind of Kool-Aid are they drinking? I don't let ANY public figure do that to me no matter their political affiliation. You talk about "TDS" - the derangement syndrome I see is on the Republican side in favor of Trump and against Democrats, not the other way around!

I don't operate like that either. I believe I've indicated that in one way or another. Just because certain things don't bother me, doesn't mean I don't have a mind of my own. I prefer to choose what hill to die on.

Edited May 14 by Soapy Goddess

[luv2lurk]

7 hours ago, Dimity said:

In some positive news on the Canadian election front - our previous government started a Dental Plan that the Cons (of course) tried to vote down. 

They had a change of heart at the 11th hour and claimed they wouldn't cancel it even though they had insisted they would - until they realized they were losing the election and started making promises I think they had no intention of keeping - anyway all this to say thankfully the Libs won and I just got my letter from the govt telling me I qualify for the dental plan!  Huzzah and hurray!!!

I have yet to receive the letter, but checked the rules and as long I as have received the notice assessment for 2024 and are in certain age bracket I can apply. Which I have. Pending Canada Postal Strike might delay that  

kudos should go to the NDP who made this happen                 

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I also thought about turning the plane into a tourist attraction. If people compare it to the Statue of Liberty, then why not charge them to look over the airplane that is also a mansion? Heck, set up a Museum of Wretched Excess around it.

I know you're probably joking, but if he just did that it would be a better alternative to actually using the plane. But he actually wants to use it, despite the fact that it would be highly impractical, expensive and ill advised from a security standpoint. He still wants to do it - probably because as I've read, Musk has told him he can get the plane up to standards in record time. Alrighty then....🙄

[Soapy Goddess]

24 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I do think we're having a crisis of low EQ these days in general in this country (and maybe the world too). People are more selfish, more insular and not focused on anyone but themselves and what affects THEM.

Absolutely agree with your entire post. The isolation that many felt during lockdown increased their selfishness, if that's even possible.

I don't want to go too far off-topic, but the long existence of the Clearwater cult still boggles my mind.

[Yeah No]

 

52 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Yes, that would be great for a lot of us here.

I understand your frustration, which is why I'm willing to take a hit for you 😉But seriously, I get it. And I actually appreciate your explanations. Especially because they don't contain snarky rhetorical questions. This does NOT mean I don't like questions...because that's how we all learn. But sometimes I honestly don't have any answers!

Thanks, I really appreciate that. Yeah I hate "gotcha" questions myself. You've seen me react negatively myself to them here. So I get that. Not having answers is OK too but I think it's being interpreted as avoiding them in a snarky way. I haven't interpreted it that way myself, though. But I am still a bit frustrated because I would really like to hear and learn about what you think about certain things. But no pressure, lol. 😉

I also get not wanting to share certain opinions here because of getting piled on. I do that myself. It has taught me that I'm not a progressive liberal and just where I differ from one. This board has been an educational experience for me and has taught me as much about myself as it has about other people.

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

For instance, if someone says "do you think Trump is above the law?" FFS...of course, he's not above the law! What kind of an asinine comeback is that? Thanks for saying I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone here is inherently a bad person. I might use other adjectives, but I'll refrain for now (just kidding people!)

I know many Republicans who are very fine people, including both of my next door neighbors who are some of the nicest people my husband and I have ever lived near. I think they're mistaken or misguided on a few things but I'd never demonize them because of it. I might feel differently if I knew a rabid die-hard, hateful misogynist, racist MAGA person but I don't happen to know anyone like that personally. I just refuse to lump every Republican or Trump supporter into that category.

At times like this I think of a Thomas Jefferson quote:

"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." 

Of course it's arguable as to whether he actually lived up to that quote given his long time break with his good friend John Adams, which was over politics. But I don't know enough about that to really draw that conclusion. I know that Jefferson engaged in some pretty devious and dastardly things when running for president against Adams and that the two were not on speaking terms for decades. They did have a reconciliation much later in life, though.

But I have lived up to that in my own life. My own best friend is a member of what I consider to be a cultish fundamentalist church but I've never turned away from her even though she did from me for a brief period 40 years ago because her church was telling her that anyone not of their beliefs was an "enemy" and not a friend! She came to her senses after a couple of years.

I'd never say never though. But again, I don't know anyone that's been that evil that I'd cut them off like that.

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I don't operate like that either. I believe I've indicated that in one way or another. Just because certain things don't bother me, doesn't mean I don't have a mind of my own. I prefer to choose what hill to die on.

I see Trump as a person motivated by hate and getting even with people over doing good for the country. I also see him as a perpetual liar and cheater who is motivated for his own gain at others' expense, including his base's if necessary. I think his lies have been proven as lies in many places and there are hundreds of them. But I don't think he's always motivated that way. He has a strange loyalty to his base and sometimes I think he genuinely wants to repay them for that loyalty. But I think some of his ideas are off base and that he has a juvenile and incomplete idea of the way the world and the country works. I think he's stuck in the past and thinks things are the way they were 50 years ago. But they're not. 

I write that because I'd love to hear how you view Trump and where you think I'm wrong about him and what I might have missed. But again, if you don't feel comfortable doing that I'd understand.

[Harvey]

@Soapy Goddess

The Left's vilification of straight, cisgender, white men contributed as much to the rise of Trump as did the Right's propaganda machine.

Even if we are right in saying cis het white men are at fault for most of the world's problems (which I'm not sure is true), it only serves to stoke the fires of enmity and deepen divisions between groups that otherwise would be on the same page or at least in the same book.

Working and non-working poor of all demographic slices should be united against big money no matter what. Power consolidation among the upper 1% is the biggest threat to global security in history. Yet we point fingers at the wrong people, driving potential allies into the open arms of the enemy.

Men need therapy groups that aren't just Alcoholics Anonymous meetings or church groups. The men with crippling social anxiety need to be invited to go to college and encouraged to take humanities courses without judgement, attend support groups, and allowed to grow and change and be forgiven of harmful beliefs/opinions. We can and should still offer correction, but there is a right way to educate someone stuck in a bubble, and yelling/blaming is not it.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Absolutely agree with your entire post. The isolation that many felt during lockdown increased their selfishness, if that's even possible.

I don't want to go too far off-topic, but the long existence of the Clearwater cult still boggles my mind.

Isolation has a lot to do with scientology. I think in leah Rimini’s podcasts or/and tv show someone tells the story of getting a Kindle which was attached to the internet, which was forbidden to scientology members. The looked up the church to see the good it was doing and were horrified and left. And if you leave any family in the church is out of reach. 

fox news is a fairly isolating news source and a lot of people who buy into MAGA get a lot of peer pressure.  Psychology Today has a good article on MAGA being a cult, but I couldn’t embed the link here.
 

The thing is, this started long before Covid. Here is a talk with Katherine Stewart about her book “Money, Lies and God” which is illuminating. 

https://cambridgeforum.org/money-lies-and-god-with-katherine-stewart/

this whole thing did not come out of nowhere. Covid maybe hastened it, or not, but Trump was elected the first time before covid  

 

Edited May 14 by Affogato

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

@Soapy Goddess

The Left's vilification of straight, cisgender, white men contributed as much to the rise of Trump as did the Right's propaganda machine.

You are so right. I've said as much myself a few times here. For years I thought that the far Left had no one to blame but themselves for the backlash. I don't hold all Dems. responsible for this because it comes from a relatively small but vocal segment of the Democratic population of which the greater party really has no control. But the Right took hold of that and scared Republicans into thinking that this segment had control of the entire party and was making straight white men their villains. So Republicans were able to convince them that they were the "new oppressed minority". And so this is how men started to become alienated from the Democratic Party. I know because my husband was watching Fox News at the time and I saw this being discussed by Tucker Carlson and others. I remember him scaring men into thinking "They're coming after you and your jobs". Stuff like that. And the far Right is STILL pushing that narrative, and Trump also jumped on it too.

I even have straight, white male friends who identify as Democrats that feel this way. They just won't get up and admit it publicly. A friend that scored "Establishment Liberal" on that Pew Research Quiz is one of them. He also feels that because of DEI he never was able to get a position as a judge in the local and state courts. He would never admit that publicly, though. These were not elected positions but appointments. He applied several times over a few years, had stellar experience and backing/recommendations, was even assured by people high in State Gov't. that he would get a position, but it never happened. Eventually he had to give up because he was told he had applied too many times. Every single time the job went to a female POC. EVERY SINGLE TIME, and I heard about it from him every time so I know it happened. And many of them did not have the experience or the background for the job, not even CLOSE. He read me their resumes so I know! Even THE most liberal of liberals on the receiving end of that would question the validity of that. And he's not a guy that has had tons of great opportunities offered to him either. He has had to work and struggle for everything he's achieved. And then the Left wonders why there's a male backlash. My friend, bless his soul, would NEVER turncoat on his basic liberal beliefs. He is still a great champion of racial equality in all ways, but he is not a fan of some of the more progressive policies and thinks they need to be addressed.

Equally an issue is that straight men of all races recoil at the ways young men are being raised today that they feel is emasculating. It reminds me of 40-50 years ago when many women recoiled from feminism because it seemed like they were being told they should be just like men, and there were many ways they wanted to remain "feminine", so there was a backlash. And I don't really blame them for that given the messages I heard at the time. As usual, the messages sent by the activists are often too extreme and make people afraid. I think there's a way to retain one's masculinity/femininity and not become "emasculated" or "defeminized". The choices are not between total toxic masculinity or total emasculation. But that's not what the people on the receiving end are hearing from either side of the far right/left. The far right and left are preaching black and white when the healthy alternative is as usual, a shade of gray.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

@Soapy Goddess

The Left's vilification of straight, cisgender, white men contributed as much to the rise of Trump as did the Right's propaganda machine.

Even if we are right in saying cis het white men are at fault for most of the world's problems (which I'm not sure is true), it only serves to stoke the fires of enmity and deepen divisions between groups that otherwise would be on the same page or at least in the same book.

Working and non-working poor of all demographic slices should be united against big money no matter what. Power consolidation among the upper 1% is the biggest threat to global security in history. Yet we point fingers at the wrong people, driving potential allies into the open arms of the enemy.

Men need therapy groups that aren't just Alcoholics Anonymous meetings or church groups. The men with crippling social anxiety need to be invited to go to college and encouraged to take humanities courses without judgement, attend support groups, and allowed to grow and change and be forgiven of harmful beliefs/opinions. We can and should still offer correction, but there is a right way to educate someone stuck in a bubble, and yelling/blaming is not it.

No one is stopping men from doing this. In fact I remember Robert Bly’s iron john movement  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men

Here is the thing. Men have more economic and legal control. Seriously, empowerment.  If a young man assaults a girl men leap to their defense. Don’t ruin his life, they cry. 

and simply, if you are in charge, well, responsibility needs to be taken.  Man have been in charge. 
 

men are welcome to do what they want. Need. But they should not divert all the resources to themselves again, because they have had all the resources traditionally. 
 

it isn’t about women blaming poor white men, or blacks blaming whites. It is about getting equitable attention and help. So men, go for it, just not at the expense of everyone else. And, it is not a tragedy if more women go to college than men, or blacks blaming whites it is just a thing. 

Yes, if you have twenty jobs that would previously be filled by white men and now nly five are filled by white men, will there be resentment?  Absolutely, even progressive men will cry into their beer. And have a point, because they would have had those jobs, not long ago. Also their upbringing makes them feel they should be the major breadwinners and there is a lowkey buzz of shame when their wife gets one of those jobs. 


 

 

Edited May 14 by Affogato

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Absolutely agree with your entire post. The isolation that many felt during lockdown increased their selfishness, if that's even possible.

Yeah, I'm seeing how in many ways people are still stuck in the isolation mindset of the pandemic only now it's self-imposed more than anything. I admit that I am still suffering from it a bit myself. In many ways the pandemic traumatized us and we probably all need therapy to get past it. Things are never going to go back to "the way they were" before the pandemic and I think on some level we are all feeling like it's so much worse now than before in many ways. And that's depressing. And depressed people do get more selfish in general.

That brings me to one of my theories as to why Trump won the election this time. People were remembering his presidency as "the good old days" before the pandemic and were hoping that maybe he had something to do with that. They hoped that maybe if he were president again he'd restore at least some of what was lost. Instead he came in with a wrecking ball and made the present dystopian reality even MORE dystopian and dysfunctional. And now many of them are realizing that and it's even MORE distressing and depressing.

Conversely, I think some people (fence sitters and Independents) blamed a lot on the Democrats and Biden/Harris that wasn't their fault. It was the pandemic's fault. And of course that also benefitted Trump.