S01.E07: The Wedding

[mirrorrim]

Okay I love this show but I'm going to be a downer. I have to get some things off my chest (but really, love this show!):

I'm confused..has Claire mentioned being infertile? I'm paranoid about getting pregnant in 2014-- I'd be terrified in the 1700's! Even if I was a nurse, no way would I want to give birth back then. So while the wedding night was hot, I kept thinking "jeez, gonna risk it again?!"

 

Also, I find it annoying and hard to believe that Claire is so head strong. Even in the 1940's, most women were not that stubborn and unafraid to talk back like she does (WW2 only began that change; Claire was living in the baby steps of a changing society). Sometimes she says things and I can't believe no one has smacked her! I know Black Jack is the villain, but come on! I know more of those Scots woulda slapped her for some of the things she's said.

Another example is when she just decides to walk out and stand there nearly naked (both in 22nd century terms and definitely in 18th century terms) on the landing while 20 men are sitting around eating and drinking. It even looked like she was about to walk down the stairs to get food! Come on! I'm not a prude but even I wouldn't do that!! I like that Claire is a strong woman, but I don't need it unrealistically shoved down my throat. It pulls me out of the story.

 

 

[CatMack]

Also, I find it annoying and hard to believe that Claire is so head strong. Even in the 1940's, most women were not that stubborn and unafraid to talk back like she does (WW2 only began that change; Claire was living in the baby steps of a changing society).

 

The suffragettes would like a word with you.

[redlips]

Didn't she get many kicks to her stomach and rib cage just the day before? Real continuity problem with the nude scenes. Most would be badly bruised for a week or two.

[absnow54]

Also, I find it annoying and hard to believe that Claire is so head strong. Even in the 1940's, most women were not that stubborn and unafraid to talk back like she does (WW2 only began that change; Claire was living in the baby steps of a changing society).

I always think of Claire as a character out of a Katharine Hepburn movie.

[Nidratime]

This could be in the media thread or it could be here. Fun commentary.

 

http://thats-normal.com/2014/09/top-ten-moments-outlander-ep-1x07-wedding/

[annlaw78]

 

Another example is when she just decides to walk out and stand there nearly naked (both in 22nd century terms and definitely in 18th century terms) on the landing while 20 men are sitting around eating and drinking. It even looked like she was about to walk down the stairs to get food! Come on! I'm not a prude but even I wouldn't do that!! I like that Claire is a strong woman, but I don't need it unrealistically shoved down my throat. It pulls me out of the story.

I could buy that she'd maybe not realize they were still out there, but the minute she'd opened the door, she would have heard the violin, and I'm assuming slammed the door shut.  I didn't quite get what they were going for with that scene -- was she challenging them for some reason, just drunk/stunned?

[ihartcoffee]

Didn't she get many kicks to her stomach and rib cage just the day before? Real continuity problem with the nude scenes. Most would be badly bruised for a week or two.

You're right, no soreness or bruising. They think we're not paying attention apparently.

[Bort]

Didn't she get many kicks to her stomach and rib cage just the day before? Real continuity problem with the nude scenes. Most would be badly bruised for a week or two.

Maybe they had soft boots?

Okay I love this show but I'm going to be a downer. I have to get some things off my chest (but really, love this show!):

I'm confused..has Claire mentioned being infertile? I'm paranoid about getting pregnant in 2014-- I'd be terrified in the 1700's! Even if I was a nurse, no way would I want to give birth back then. So while the wedding night was hot, I kept thinking "jeez, gonna risk it again?!"

They've kind of implied that Claire is infertile. She previously told Geilis (in "The Gathering") that she and her "dead" husband had been trying but hadn't conceived. Geilis suggested that she might be barren and then that's where the subject dropped.

Edited September 22, 2014 by kariyaki

[Nidratime]

They've kind of implied that Claire is infertile. She previously told Geilis (in "The Gathering") that she and her "dead" husband had been trying but hadn't conceived. Geilis suggested that she might be barren and then that's where the subject dropped.

 

 

And why do we think *Claire* is unfertile?

[Bort]

And why do we think *Claire* is unfertile?

I was just dictating what they've implied thus far. It could be that Frank shoots blanks. Or they just never got the hang of the timing.

[romantique]

I love the moment when he calls her "mo neighean donn" and how he tells her that her hair is like water in a burn, "the way it ruffles down the rocks"...it's so sexy with that Scottish burr and he can tell she is reacting well to it. And then he tells her that Murtagh thinks she has a sweet smile (awwww). Jamie is such a sweetie, how can Claire help herself? I did like how we got to see the flashbacks as a way to add dimension to the entire wedding night.

[Tif]

Didn't she get many kicks to her stomach and rib cage just the day before? Real continuity problem with the nude scenes. Most would be badly bruised for a week or two.

I have two thoughts about this. One, having been punched in the stomach myself, albeit it was on accident, It took my breath away but I didn't have a bruise. Two, we all saw Mrs. Fitz layer on the clothes in a previous episode and the layers could've helped "cushion" the kicks. Hawkins did not put full strength into either kick, though the second one was stronger than the first.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Tif

[MedievalGirl]

I figure a corset acted like armor and spread the force from the punch out. I say this as someone who has worn both armor and a corset (but not at the same time).  

[magdalene]

Okay I love this show but I'm going to be a downer. I have to get some things off my chest (but really, love this show!):

I'm confused..has Claire mentioned being infertile? I'm paranoid about getting pregnant in 2014-- I'd be terrified in the 1700's! Even if I was a nurse, no way would I want to give birth back then. So while the wedding night was hot, I kept thinking "jeez, gonna risk it again?!"

 

Also, I find it annoying and hard to believe that Claire is so head strong. Even in the 1940's, most women were not that stubborn and unafraid to talk back like she does (WW2 only began that change; Claire was living in the baby steps of a changing society). Sometimes she says things and I can't believe no one has smacked her! I know Black Jack is the villain, but come on! I know more of those Scots woulda slapped her for some of the things she's said.

Another example is when she just decides to walk out and stand there nearly naked (both in 22nd century terms and definitely in 18th century terms) on the landing while 20 men are sitting around eating and drinking. It even looked like she was about to walk down the stairs to get food! Come on! I'm not a prude but even I wouldn't do that!! I like that Claire is a strong woman, but I don't need it unrealistically shoved down my throat. It pulls me out of the story.

We were shown in the first episode that Claire had a very unconventional upbringing, combine that with her stubborn nature and her headstrongness and the fact that she had pretty much been non-stop drinking before her wedding and during the wedding night and you have a woman who may be less err...retiring than the average woman would have been.

 

As to whether Claire should be worried about getting pregnant. They have implied that Claire believes herself to be infertile. It could be of course that Frank is infertile, in the good ol' days women always got the blame when the men were shooting blanks.

 

Now having watched plenty of drama on TV Claire thinking herself infertile will probably mean Jamie will knock her up soon, and probably at the most inconvenient time.

[Rekilt]

Why Ron decide to shoot the Wedding episode with flashbacks

http://www.vulture.com/2014/09/outlander-wedding-jamie-claire-ronald-moore.html

Edited September 22, 2014 by Rekilt

[Door]

So did no one else notice the love bite on Sam's right trapezius?   A friend and I both exclaimed at the same time "OMG he's got a hickey!!$#!"  Seems that must have occurred in rehearsals or a previous take because I don't think we saw Claire latched on there in the final edit from what I could see.    Apologies if too dark/too small.   It's that scene, yeah.  

 

 

Isn't that his musket ball scar?

 

ETA: I see this was answered before. I'll make this post somewhat relevant by saying that it was nice to see a sexual encounter/evening that felt like something I've experienced in my life. Not certain if it's because it's more geared to the female gaze or it's merely a slightly realistic depiction of sex, but I loved it. 

 

Now, if only I could ALSO claim experiencing a virile Highlander warrior! Alas.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Door

[eyetotelescope]

What a beautifully put together episode.  It could have been pretty much an hour of gratuitous nudity (not unheard of for a cable show!) but instead, it helped further character development, strengthen the Claire/Jamie relationship and really kept my attention, despite the fact that very little happened, plot-wise.  I'm definitely going to rewatch this episode at some point.

[insubordination]

 

I had an interesting moment imagining what this episode would have been like had it been written and directed by the Game Of Thrones writers and directors

They definitely would have gone with Jamie's horse plan...and maybe have had a gang of redcoats rape the whores.

[kieyra]

Are those two actors single?

Because I wonder if they will stay that way.

[justmehere]

she just decides to walk out and stand there nearly naked (both in 22nd century terms and definitely in 18th century terms) on the landing while 20 men are sitting around eating and drinking.

 

 

I think this moment happens right after she declares herself a bigamist and adulteress, and also admits she liked the sex. She's feeling guilty and overwhelmed, and she needs to escape the room. When she comes out the door, she's crying. I don't think she was aware of her surroundings at the moment; she just had to get out. And she is rather ruled by her impulses.

[mirrorrim]

Ok the unconventional upbringing softens me a bit towards her head strong-ness. But I'm still irked at how much she gets away with saying (and I imagine she would have the smarts to know she can't just blurt that stuff out--as the dinner with the Brits and Black Jack taught her).

[Sasha]

So I've been thinking about Jamie's virginity a lot. Maybe too much, heh, but I am wondering about some of the choices made. I can sort of understand that he is still a virgin maybe because of his back or the price on his head etc. but he is an expert kisser and even says he wasn't a monk. I find it hard to believe during his make out sessions there were no roaming hands. Some tart didn't slip her hand up his kilt or the other way around? No dry humping face to face? Had plenty of those times in my youth.

He seems a little too naive as to positions and orgasms. Considering how rough and crude his buddies are you think he have seen or heard a bit more over the years. He's not a 15 year old stable lad who's never been off the farm. When he comes down for food after the first time, Rupert asked, did ya bleed? Then Angus teases, while you're filling your face with food maybe I'll go upstairs and fill mine, complete with tongue action. He doesn't appear shocked so he has some idea of basic female anatomy.

He even says they gave him advice on the big night. I'm sure they gave him hell but they do seem to care for him very much. Each one went out of their way to make the wedding special. Even Dougal ponied up some money for the church windows. I would pay good money to see mentioned sex talks. If one minute the guys have said women don't like it but then you throw in the typical crude oral sex joke I call shenanigans.

I suppose I can forgive the little inconsistencies since this really was one of the best wedding nights I've watched. I was worried they'd have Claire be the experienced teacher and in control from the beginning. She was married but there's no indication she'd had any lover than her husband and Jamie is a stranger. I liked that his inexperience and her fear put them on even ground. I thought it was really wonderful that by the end of the night Claire has started to fall in love with Jamie and so has the audience. That's quite an accomplishment for an hour of television.

[Pestilentia]

 

They definitely would have gone with Jamie's horse plan...

I'd pay good money to see Claire introduce Jamie to doggie style- it will blow his mind!

[ohhellsyeah]

You guys are forgetting the first rule of a GOT wedding: someone's gotta die. Everyone is alive for the time being so I would rather attend a wedding in the Outlander verse than in Westeros.

[Nidratime]

I was thinking this morning that it's enormously ironic that Frank's ancestor, the fellow he wants to know so much about and almost seems to hero worship, not knowing his true nature, is the very reason his wife had to marry another man in the 18th Century. Quite a joke on Frank!

[Haleth]

Also, I find it annoying and hard to believe that Claire is so head strong. Even in the 1940's, most women were not that stubborn and unafraid to talk back like she does (WW2 only began that change; Claire was living in the baby steps of a changing society). Sometimes she says things and I can't believe no one has smacked her! I know Black Jack is the villain, but come on! I know more of those Scots woulda slapped her for some of the things she's said.

 

I've never known a nurse who was shy about speaking her mind.  I think the profession requires a strong personality, especially if she/he is practicing in a combat hospital.  Being direct saves time and lives.

[insubordination]

 

Isn't that his musket ball scar?

 

I could have sworn he was shot on his left shoulder.

 

You guys are forgetting the first rule of a GOT wedding: someone's gotta die

I bet Tobias was nervous about this episode when he first got the script.

[absnow54]

I bet Tobias was nervous about this episode when he first got the script.

"But where's all the murder? What kind of show are you trying to make here?"

[Bort]

I could have sworn he was shot on his left shoulder.

Nope, Jamie was shot on the right.

[lucindabelle]

TWO cats in huge episode! The one eating in thcresits was a different color than the one eating later. If I didn't like scots before I certainly would now.

Dress was fine but not really as sensational as all the hype. Just me, or are Katrina's breasts a little droopy for a young woman? When she is 40 those things are going to sag big time.

I agree that going out in just a kilt wrap was idiotic. I wouldnt do that today with company over, at least a button down robe. I agree she could have just told Jamie she can't help thinking about her first wedding.

How did nobody notice as they were dressing her she still had a ring on? It was dramatic for her to take it off when she entered the church but not realistic. Somebody would have noticed it outside too.

[insubordination]

 

Nope, Jamie was shot on the right.

 

Right you are. I need a detailed re-watch (or a parent to teach me left from right!).

Edited September 22, 2014 by insubordination

[nara]

Dress was fine but not really as sensational as all the hype.

I actually thought the dress was gorgeous and wonderfully intricate.  I'd totally wear it if I had the body for it (and a grudge against my breasts--jk!) or maybe a more modern version that wasn't quite so tight.  However, I agree--they overhyped the dress.  I think it would be different if she had made a grand entry into the church and been escorted down the aisle by Dougal or Ned and if she had been smiling. Then, the situation and her demeanor would have made the dress look dazzling.  But there was no need for all the secrecy because the dress was not placed at the center of attention.

[Nidratime]

I think it would be different if she had made a grand entry into the church and been escorted down the aisle by Dougal or Ned and if she had been smiling. Then, the situation and her demeanor would have made the dress look dazzling.

 

 

I liked the dress, but I didn't love it. However, in that time period, most women didn't have a special dress for their wedding day. They tended to wear their best dress, no matter the color, no matter how often they had already worn it. That's what made Claire's dress so special, because it was something obtained just for her wedding day which no other woman has ever worn ... allegedly.

 

I thought the scene where they first see each other in their wedding finery to the point they enter the church was acted beautifully. It was so poignant. Jamie looked proud and happy; Claire looked shell-shocked.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Nidratime

[Bort]

I thought the scene where they first see each other in their wedding finery to the point they enter the church was acted beautifully. It was so poignant. Jamie looked proud and happy; Claire looked shell-shocked.

Don't forget Claire's massive hangover. The running plot of her binge drinking highly amuses me. I almost want to make a drinking game out of it but it's almost too on the nose.

Apropos of nothing, I really loved that pained gasp Claire let out when Murtagh hauled her up from bed.

[Nidratime]

This is a beautiful little article about how the wedding episode was planned out, with input from Ron and Terry's own courtship. But, please be warned there are a couple of spoilers in here:

 

Outlander’s Ronald D. Moore and Others Break Down Claire and Jamie’s Big Wedding Night

http://www.vulture.com/2014/09/outlander-wedding-jamie-claire-ronald-moore.html

[terrymct]

I got the distinct impression that Dougal wanted Jamie to marry Claire because, with a Sassenach wife, it would be very difficult for Jamie to wield any power in the clan. Not that Jamie had any designs on this, but Dougal seems very jealous of Jamie. And of course he figured on getting Claire for himself later, thus killing two birds with one stone.

 

Maybe not so much jealously but maneuvering so that Jamie is less and less a potential rival for Laird.   I'm really not sure what to make of Dougal yet.  He's a potentially complex character, showing both good and bad sides.

[absnow54]

I do think Dougal's threatened by Jamie, and while the marriage is a huge political gain for Dougal, seducing Jamie's wife would be an even bigger gain to his ego.

[taanja]

 

Did Dougal want sloppy seconds? What was that about? He could have offered himself for the marriage. Kinda creepy......

 

My take on that:  through the entire ep as we see Dougal pouting and drinking ---he wants/wanted to be the one to marry Claire but for whatever reason he was unable. Because he does not come across as a man who would give something he desires to someone else unless he himself cannot partake.

 

So my question ---has the show ever established/mentioned that Dougal is already married? because that is the only reason I can come up with why he didn't marry Claire himself.

 

Anyway. I was confused at first thinking --- did I come in late? Did I miss something? but I pretty much figured as the episode unfolded that Oh it's a flashback ep! Ok!

 

God I loved all the costumes! Especially Claire's wedding dress. and I laughed out loud when she told Jamie she basically drank herself into a stupor and had to be roused to get dressed for her wedding. I mean----serious character continuation. Claire does love her booze!

 

[Door]

Well, married or not, what holds true for Jamie must also hold true for Dougal. If Dougal took a Sassenach to wife, he too would be disqualified for lairdship. I don't think he'll let a little thing like infatuation or lust get in the way of his quest for power...no matter how pretty. :) 

[Bort]

Well, married or not, what holds true for Jamie must also hold true for Dougal. If Dougal took a Sassenach to wife, he too would be disqualified for lairdship. I don't think he'll let a little thing like infatuation or lust get in the way of his quest for power...no matter how pretty. :)

It doesn't "disqualify" them, it just makes them less desirable a candidate. Akin to modern-day politicians getting caught with a hooker. As Collum's brother, Dougal's the stronger candidate.

Edited September 22, 2014 by kariyaki

[ganesh]

I don't have a problem with Claire being an outspoken 1940s woman. The war was a crucible and she had to get with it if she was going to be able to do her job right. And she's had quite the childhood as well. She seemed more on equal terms with her uncle (lighting a cigarette) than child/adult. I think the show did well enough to establish that.

 

People are coming to her for help with being sick, injured, etc., so they already cede authority to her and expect her to speak in an authoritative capacity. 

[Door]

Ah, well...Be that as it may, kariyaki, it's still a good reason why Dougal wouldn't risk attempting to marry Claire.

[taanja]

 

think Claire is not smiling and freaking out internally is because she's still married to another live, even if they don't know it, man. She needs time time comes to terms with her new reality. IMHO

 

Thank you! The head might know something is true but the heart needs to play catch-up. When I read comments like --OH poor Jamie. That big bad Claire wasn't appreciative enough of your love/affection I just think---but in her heart she is still married to Frank! No wonder girlfriend needed to drink like a fish!

As some one who has been in love and who has lost that love (through death) I understand completely what Claire is feeling. One doesn't just go ---oh well he is gone --on to another! No. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Bort]

Ah, well...Be that as it may, kariyaki, it's still a good reason why Dougal wouldn't risk attempting to marry Claire.

And may very well be the reason why Dougal didn't try and marry Claire himself. Doesn't mean he isn't going to sit, sulk and wish he were in Jamie's place.

[absnow54]

Thank you! The head might know something is true but the heart needs to play catch-up. When I read comments like --OH poor Jamie. That big bad Claire wasn't appreciative enough of your love/affection I just think---but in her heart she is still married to Frank! No wonder girlfriend needed to drink like a fish!

 

I think both Claire and Jamie are in super difficult positions. Claire's issues are more easily drawn out because we've been in her head the entire time. With Jamie, though, it's been obvious from the start that he's really into Claire, but in this episode we saw even more into his vulnerability. That scene at the very end when he gives her his mother's pearls, the look on his face was so heartbreaking because this marriage is it for him, and this woman he thinks he's in love with is only there because the alternative is an English prison. I don't blame Claire for it. Her situation is even worse, but this is the first time we got a glimpse into Jamie's POV. It sort of highlighted all the times he shrugged off being a worthless fugitive with a price on his head. We know he's got a sister who he cares for, but he couldn't protect her, and now the only family he has are either trying to use him or kill him. Claire's the only family he can count on now, and she's seemingly miserable to be there (again, completely legitimate and understandable reasons to be miserable, but Jamie has no idea.)

Edited September 22, 2014 by absnow54

[Iheartdoctorwho]

I have a suspicion about Murtaugh.  Remember how he said he had to return the kilt he borrowed to a Fraser widow the next day?  Jamie asks why and Murtaugh snaps "I didn't ask!"  I'm thinking Murtuagh used something more than conversation to obtain Jamie's wedding clothes.  I'm thinking that widow may have asked for something more than chat from Murtaugh Fitzwilliams Fraser.

 

Well, if Ned can get some, why not Murtaugh?

 

BTW I love Murtaugh's line "What do you think will happen when ye prance out of here with your red hair and your muckle size wearing Fraser colors?"  I looked it up and "muckle" is Scots English for something large.

Murtagh FitzGibbons Fraser :)

Edited September 22, 2014 by Iheartdoctorwho

[taanja]

 

With Jamie, though, it's been obvious from the start that he's really into Claire, but in this episode we saw even more into his vulnerability.

 

Unrequited love it is. He may be in love with Claire ---but as of this last episode ---she isn't there yet.

 

I am observant enough to realize that Jamie and Claire are the "true love" characters of Outlander. The writing is on the wall so to speak. But as far as I am concerned ---they aren't there yet simply because Claire is still in love with her husband ---the 20th century husband that is. LOL ;-)

 

I am still on Team Frank --what can I say? The show hasn't convinced me yet to feel otherwise.

 

[glitterpants]

Katrina's breasts a little droopy for a young woman? When she is 40 those things are going to sag big time.

 

 

Not that I think there's anything wrong with Cait's boobs but, dinna fash, Jamie didn't seem to mind at all. ;)

Edited September 22, 2014 by glitterpants

[Petunia846]

On rewatch from yesterday I soooo loved the delivery of Jamie's line about how, yes he's seen naked women before, but none so beautiful and "none that were mine." One of my favorites from the book and Sam nailed it.

[taanja]

 

On rewatch from yesterday I soooo loved the delivery of Jamie's line about how, yes he's seen naked women before, but none so beautiful and "none that were mine

 

I watched that scene twice because I hear him say ---none so coarse

 

[ kôrs ]

adjective

1.

rough or loose in texture or grain:

"a coarse woolen cloth"

synonyms: rough · scratchy · prickly · wiry

 

 

 

 

2.

(of a person or their speech) rude, crude, or vulgar.

synonyms: vulgar · crude · rude · off-color · dirty · filthy · smutty ·

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