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S08.E05: Masks

Snazzy Daisy

By Snazzy Daisy
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

This episode was a lot of fun until it wasn't. 

The Hen/Karen fight felt forced.  It's one thing to have this discussion over something like a birthday or Christmas but Halloween?  And Karen would know that Hen probably needs some leeway.  I'm glad Denny is okay.  He's such a good big brother. 

I loved that Athena brought out the big guns during her presentation.

And I loved everything about Buck's story from his conviction that he was cursed, Tommy and Eddie being amused by that conviction to Buck avenging Billy Boils.

  • Like 11
Crashcourse

Crashcourse

I figured since this was a Halloween episode it would be stupid, so Buck didn't disappoint.

What I didn't understand was why those two bitches weren't suspended from school because of the prank they played on that guy.  Athena just standing them in front of the class wasn't nearly enough punishment.  If they hadn't done that, he wouldn't have chased after them and crashed.  It's too bad the guy died and Denny was injured, but I was glad that Denny was ok.  

 

  • Like 7
anna0852

anna0852

23 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

What I didn't understand was why those two bitches weren't suspended from school because of the prank they played on that guy.  Athena just standing them in front of the class wasn't nearly enough punishment.  If they hadn't done that, he wouldn't have chased after them and crashed.  It's too bad the guy died and Denny was injured, but I was glad that Denny was ok.  

 

I disagree with this one. Yes, egging the guy’s house was stupid.

But *he* was the adult in the scenario, he’s been an educator for God knows how long and ought to have a good understanding of how teenage brains work and he was the one who chose to get in his car and wildly escalate the situation. I think it was pretty reasonable on the teenagers part not to assume that egging a house was going to lead to somebody’s death.

  • Like 18
kwnyc

kwnyc

I was saying: OH NO, THEY ARE NOT KILLING DENNY! 

Tommy is a good boyfriend. Buck remains Buck with boils. And how did they not notice the corpse was a corpse?

Also, do kids really go out truck or treating in their teens? Why do so many of the kids (especially at Halloween) treat the firefighters with such rudeness? 

Eddie still has chemistry with Tommy.

Maddie and Chimney swooning over pictures of Jee-Yun felt like a well-deserved moment.

And was Josh's costume mustache poking fin at Eddie?

 

  • Like 7
Infie

Infie

I haven't yet finished the episode, which I had been enjoying, until Hen was all 'he's my son! I must be allowed to be the primary treatment for him!' and tripped my OMG second most hated trope button.  I absolutely loathe the TV and movie scenes where everyone completely throws away their professional ethics and code of conduct because it's 'one of their own' and *everyone is all right with it*.  Instant rage spike.

The Buck parts were fun, loved the haunted house set up at the station, hated the kids pranking their vice principal, hated the resolution to the Karen / Hen fight.  

So - mix of emotions for me in this ep for sure. 

  • Like 9
agathapenny

agathapenny

(edited)
1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

I disagree with this one. Yes, egging the guy’s house was stupid.

But *he* was the adult in the scenario, he’s been an educator for God knows how long and ought to have a good understanding of how teenage brains work and he was the one who chose to get in his car and wildly escalate the situation. I think it was pretty reasonable on the teenagers part not to assume that egging a house was going to lead to somebody’s death.

I'm somewhere in the middle. There's plenty of blame to go around in this scenario, and the girls deserve some of it. They did commit an illegal act that set off a chain of events that led to a death and a serious injury, not to mention serious property damage. The fact that they didn't mean for that to happen as a consequence of their actions is only somewhat mitigating. I was glad they at least showed them as being genuinely remorseful about Denny, at least. But also, the vice principal actually died. I hope they feel bad about that too.

That being said, I agree with the above comment that the vice principal should have acted like an adult, but instead he is responsible for escalating the situation so tragically. You don't get to endanger people's lives over someone egging your house, no matter how infuriating it is that nobody was taking it seriously.

32 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

And was Josh's costume mustache poking fin at Eddie?

My first thought when I saw Josh was that he'd dressed up as Eddie for Halloween, lol.

15 minutes ago, Infie said:

I haven't yet finished the episode, which I had been enjoying, until Hen was all 'he's my son! I must be allowed to be the primary treatment for him!'

That took me out of it a bit. And no, Buck commenting about 'shouldn't someone get her out of there' was not enough of an explanation. There is absolutely no way she would have been allowed to be in charge of her own son's treatment, especially since she was clearly extremely distraught. And especially since both Chim and Eddie were right there and could have taken over. 

All in all, I did love this episode, though. So far this season has been light years better than last. Even with the unreality of Hen treating Denny, that was still a very effective scene, well paced with a well-chosen and timed piece of music.

Edited by agathapenny
  • Like 9
dancingdreamer

dancingdreamer

I loved how the grownups  got more out of it, than the kids going through  the firehall..

Halloween  is always  a crazy time, poor Buck and his  boils, I actually  thought  he was pranking  the others, then seeing him at the graveside, the least they could do, is shown him boil free.

I'm so glad Denny is okay, when we heard the car crash when the girls called 911, It never crossed  my mind, the car had hit Denny.

  • Like 6
andromeda331

andromeda331

The vice principal shouldn't have followed the kids. I'm glad the teen girls learned their lesson.

I felt bad for Chiminy/Maddie and Hen for not to be with their kids for Halloween.

I was really scared that Denny was going to die. Thank God he's going to be okay. I felt bad for Mara too. That girl's been through so much and a fun night almost ended with her brother being killed. Give her a break.

Buck got cursed! Of course he did. 

  • Like 7
Dirge

Dirge

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The Hen/Karen fight felt forced.  It's one thing to have this discussion over something like a birthday or Christmas but Halloween? 

You must've forgotten that it was Mara's FIRST HALLOWEEN WITH THEM. I'm rolling my eyes so hard I may never see straight again. I'd much rather have had Halloween just be the final straw, or something, to other missed holidays. And granted I'm old but I had no sympathy for an adult whining about taking THREE KIDS trick or treating. Especially with one of them being as old as Denny. 

I'm glad he's okay; I like that kid. 

  • Like 12
anna0852

anna0852

5 hours ago, Dirge said:

You must've forgotten that it was Mara's FIRST HALLOWEEN WITH THEM. I'm rolling my eyes so hard I may never see straight again. I'd much rather have had Halloween just be the final straw, or something, to other missed holidays. And granted I'm old but I had no sympathy for an adult whining about taking THREE KIDS trick or treating. Especially with one of them being as old as Denny. 

I'm glad he's okay; I like that kid. 

Not to mention, Karen was well aware that Hen is a firefighter. She has been since the day they met and her schedule has not been a secret. Hen was a firefighter long before they had children and if Karen has that much of an issue the time to bring it up was long before now.

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marceline

marceline

I've truly grown to hate Buck. He's just such a child. He never listens to anybody. He constantly dismisses legitimate concerns. Bobby was right. That dead body was too scary for the kids but of course when the kids expressed their fear did he listen? No. He just pushed harder until he broke the arm. I could go on and on but I won't.

They really brought the drama with Denny. For a moment I really thought they were going to kill him.

What's with the fixation on mustaches this season? People have been obsessing about Eddie's and then Josh wears a mustache as his Halloween costume.

I found the reaction to the death of the vice principal strange. I mean Athena's back at the school and showing photos of the accident where a school employee died. That seemed really inappropriate.

  • Like 6
Crashcourse

Crashcourse

12 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I disagree with this one. Yes, egging the guy’s house was stupid.

But *he* was the adult in the scenario, he’s been an educator for God knows how long and ought to have a good understanding of how teenage brains work and he was the one who chose to get in his car and wildly escalate the situation. I think it was pretty reasonable on the teenagers part not to assume that egging a house was going to lead to somebody’s death.

Well, I disagree.  He'd been subjected to these pranks for years, and he'd had enough when he got in his car and chased after them.  Those girls were old enough to know better, and they still should have been suspended.  But then they were used to getting away with stuff because when they were playing on their phones, that teacher sat at her desk looking helpless and did nothing.  If Athena had been a teacher, she would have stopped that shit.    

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Infie

Infie

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Not to mention, Karen was well aware that Hen is a firefighter. She has been since the day they met and her schedule has not been a secret. Hen was a firefighter long before they had children and if Karen has that much of an issue the time to bring it up was long before now.

Sure, but they had also clearly discussed that Hen would ask for the shift off so that she could go with them.  When Hen asked, Bobby had said that one of Hen or Chim could take off, and without talking to either of their spouses Chim and Hen decided that they would both work because otherwise 'it would be unfair'.   This is saying to Karen that Chimney's feelings are more important to Hen than Karen's or her kids' are.  To make it more offensive, Chim and Maddy had already both decided to skip Hallowe'en with their daughter to give her time with the other kids. Chim clearly wouldn't be broken up about it, and Karen knew that it was an excuse; Hen was looking for a way to skip it whether Hen knew that's what she was doing or not.  Karen's statement about missing the big events was about making Hen aware that Karen knew that Hen had made a choice to not be a part of their family event for a spurious reason.  

As the spouse of a first responder myself, this is actually quite true to life.  When your primary interaction with other people is in the most dramatic moment of their lives, the less dramatic moments in your own life become unimportant to you.  Why not miss father's day soccer, or grade 8 graduation or first halloween with your foster kid? It's not like there won't be other mother's days or birthdays or Christmases, and after all, you have to work.  But the fact is, just because it's not the most dramatic moment in the first responder's life doesn't mean it's not an important dramatic moment in their family member's life, and ignoring that just means that the first responder considers their family member less important than their job unless their family member is also in utter crisis.  

It's infuriating, and it's a choice, and you never get those events back, and Karen was right to say so. 

  • Like 11
iMonrey

iMonrey

13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

This episode was a lot of fun until it wasn't. 

That about sums it up. I expect this show to do fun, goofy episodes for Halloween. What I don't want is the angst and drama of Hen and Karen crying and screaming while Denny is at death's door. Ruined what was otherwise a fun episode. Why? This is reminiscent of what the show turned into last year and reinforces my impression that ABC asked the producers to make it more serious than it used to be on Fox.

2 hours ago, marceline said:

What's with the fixation on mustaches this season? People have been obsessing about Eddie's and then Josh wears a mustache as his Halloween costume.

Was Josh's mustache just a costume? I thought Josh actually looked really good in a mustache. Eddie, not so much. But to be fair, if you go to any local fire station, you will find that about half the fire fighters have mustaches. It's kind of a thing with them. Maybe that's why they decided someone should have one on this crew.

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Not to mention, Karen was well aware that Hen is a firefighter. She has been since the day they met and her schedule has not been a secret. Hen was a firefighter long before they had children and if Karen has that much of an issue the time to bring it up was long before now.

My sentiments exactly. Uh, Karen? Your kid doesn't care whether or not both their parents go trick-or-treating with them. All they care about is CANDY.

  • Like 5
Irlandesa

Irlandesa

4 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Not to mention, Karen was well aware that Hen is a firefighter. She has been since the day they met and her schedule has not been a secret. Hen was a firefighter long before they had children and if Karen has that much of an issue the time to bring it up was long before now.

Right.  I wouldn't even mind if it was a little less strong.  It was the accusations and resentment that came out of nowhere. For Halloween. 

It was clearly just to set up the ending so I don't hold it against her but it felt unnecessary.   I think the impact would have worked the same without it.

5 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I was wondering who was watching the other kids since Hen and Karen went off in the ambulance with Denny. 

They didn't say how she got them but Maddie was watching the kids.

  • Like 3
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

This is why this show is such a wild ride, we go from:

Athena has to pull over a literal clown car filled with drunk clowns at a sobriety checkpoint, with the countless clowns stumbling out like an old timeie vaudeville routine right to...

Hen and Karen's son nearly dies in a freak car accident. 

Truly, get you a show that can do both. I really did not love the drama with poor Denny nearly dying, as if their family hasn't had enough drama, or Hen doing that typical TV "that's my child damn it!" thing, as if that isn't a terrible idea, but I still overall thought it was a fun Halloween episode. 

I might be listening to too many spooky themed podcasts, because I knew right away where Buck's story with the corpse was going, its based on a true story! A gunslinger who was killed in a shoot out in the Wild West really did end up mummified and being used as a sideshow attraction for decades until people just forgot that he was a real body and ended up in a haunted house until, and I am not kidding, The Six Million Dollar Man filmed an episode at the haunted house, and grabbed the body to move it out of a shot, and the arm came off revealing actual bone! The real guy was named Elmer McCurdy and he was burried near his hometown in Oklahoma. 

More information here, its a wild story: 

https://www.slate.com/blogs/atlas_obscura/2014/04/11/the_corpse_of_elmer_mccurdy_and_how_it_ended_up_in_a_long_beach_fun_park.html#:~:text=Within weeks%2C the McCurdy corpse,The Pike in Long Beach.

Edited by tennisgurl
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ajsnaves

ajsnaves

How exactly do their shifts work? I always assumed 24hrs on 48hrs off. That would mean you work some holidays and have others off, just by the way calendars work. Also, does the LAFD not have a floater pool? That is what floaters are for, to cover for people when they take off for vacations or family events or dislocate their shoulders slipping on pumpkin guts. 

  • Like 5
agathapenny

agathapenny

10 hours ago, Infie said:

Sure, but they had also clearly discussed that Hen would ask for the shift off so that she could go with them.  When Hen asked, Bobby had said that one of Hen or Chim could take off, and without talking to either of their spouses Chim and Hen decided that they would both work because otherwise 'it would be unfair'.   This is saying to Karen that Chimney's feelings are more important to Hen than Karen's or her kids' are.  To make it more offensive, Chim and Maddy had already both decided to skip Hallowe'en with their daughter to give her time with the other kids. Chim clearly wouldn't be broken up about it, and Karen knew that it was an excuse; Hen was looking for a way to skip it whether Hen knew that's what she was doing or not.  Karen's statement about missing the big events was about making Hen aware that Karen knew that Hen had made a choice to not be a part of their family event for a spurious reason.  

As the spouse of a first responder myself, this is actually quite true to life.  When your primary interaction with other people is in the most dramatic moment of their lives, the less dramatic moments in your own life become unimportant to you.  Why not miss father's day soccer, or grade 8 graduation or first halloween with your foster kid? It's not like there won't be other mother's days or birthdays or Christmases, and after all, you have to work.  But the fact is, just because it's not the most dramatic moment in the first responder's life doesn't mean it's not an important dramatic moment in their family member's life, and ignoring that just means that the first responder considers their family member less important than their job unless their family member is also in utter crisis.  

It's infuriating, and it's a choice, and you never get those events back, and Karen was right to say so. 

Yes to all of this. Also, it's perfectly normal for a couple to have an argument about something that they've talked about before. Even if you know the score and are accepting of it most of the time, you can still have moments where you feel slighted, or fed up, or hurt. 

Plus it made no sense for both Hen and Chim to miss the holiday with their kids. 

6 hours ago, fastiller said:

I did like the continuity of Eddie dismissing 'the curse'. He had the same reaction way back in a previous episode with the actor and her PA and the supposedly cursed bracelet.  

And the episode where Ravi said the word "quiet" and they all thought that led to an exceptionally busy shift by jinxing them.

  • Like 5
possibilities

possibilities

14 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

  But then they were used to getting away with stuff because when they were playing on their phones, that teacher sat at her desk looking helpless and did nothing.

I couldn't believe that! What the hell was wrong with that teacher!?

I have no patience for "pranks" and rudeness. Kids who lack basic decency grow up to be horrible adults. I was surprised the girls learned a lesson isntead of just deflecting blame and not giving a shit about what happened. I was fine with Athena showing the photos. Maybe a few kids will sober up and not be reckless assholes. She could save some lives.

We let kids see all kinds of horrible stuff, and we teach them to prepare to be shot in their classrooms. Might as well show them REAL stuff, which they can PREVENT, instead of numbing them with fictional violence for fun and scaring them with "shooter drills" they are helpless to protect against.

--

I thought Buck's boils were probably from something allergic or infectious from touching the corpse. Even if that was true, though, it was kind of him to try to help the dead guy's spirit, even if he was only doing it out of fear of being cursed himself. Some people who think things like that they are cursed will focus only on self-protection and not look for a solution that also serves whoever they are afraid of.

They could have also shown us that he got medical help, but I guess they wanted to lean into the "spooky Halloween" idea.

--

I like Denny. I missed who they said he pushed to save that person's life, which I thought was a bit more than necessary to make us like him. I already liked him. I was telling myself over and over again that this isn't the kind of show where they kill characters in the ensemble, because I also thought he was going to die. But we saw a huge amount of blood coming out of Eddie's head years ago as he was lying looking very dead on the pavement, and Chim got rebar through his skull, and they seem fine. So I was pretty sure Denny would make it. But I was having to remind myself while watching.

Jee is super-adorable.

I also wondered who was watching Mara and Jee when Karen went to the hospital.

  • Like 5
lianau

lianau

14 hours ago, ajsnaves said:

How exactly do their shifts work? I always assumed 24hrs on 48hrs off. That would mean you work some holidays and have others off, just by the way calendars work. Also, does the LAFD not have a floater pool? That is what floaters are for, to cover for people when they take off for vacations or family events or dislocate their shoulders slipping on pumpkin guts. 

My brother is a professional firefighter here in Germany (we also have volunteer firefighters) and he has two 24 hour shifts per week and usually 48 hours between them but that obviously isn't set in stone (sick coworkers...). He should at least get 12 hours off by law , I think. His shifts also rotate a bit. Like it's not always monday at work , tuesday and wednesday off. After a bit he'll move to tuesday at work and wednesday and thursday off and so on . With holidays it's usually parents who get the  Christmas holiday but you can't have both, Christmas and New Year's Eve unless you find someone who's willing to trade shifts.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really did not love the drama with poor Denny nearly dying, as if their family hasn't had enough drama, or Hen doing that typical TV "that's my child damn it!" thing, as if that isn't a terrible idea,

That's the other thing. We've already been through a whole storyline of Hen and Karen losing their kids. How many times are they almost going to lose their kids? Enough of this already. Give it a rest. They can't be on the verge of losing a kid every single episode. Eventually you have to wonder what the hell is wrong with them.

  • Like 9
kwnyc

kwnyc

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

I like Denny. I missed who they said he pushed to save that person's life, which I thought was a bit more than necessary to make us like him. I already liked him

The kid playing Denny has grown up into a good actor. (May is a pretty good actor as well.) He's written as someone who is thoughtful and kind and naturally looking out for other people. He's a good big brother. Hen and Karen have done a great job with him. (Harry, on the other hand, is kind of a jerk).

And it's a good thing the vice principal was killed in the accident, because had he lived, he would have had to face the wrath of two epically furious parents. 

  • Like 3
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 10/25/2024 at 12:10 AM, agathapenny said:

That took me out of it a bit. And no, Buck commenting about 'shouldn't someone get her out of there' was not enough of an explanation. There is absolutely no way she would have been allowed to be in charge of her own son's treatment, especially since she was clearly extremely distraught.

The fact that Buck of all people was the one to point this out made it extra annoying. And then when Cap said "do you want to tell her" I was like, no stupid you should tell her, that's literally your job. Let Hen comfort her son while level headed people work on him. Since if she is treating him and he still dies, I can't imagine that level of grief.

On 10/25/2024 at 7:49 PM, ajsnaves said:

How exactly do their shifts work? I always assumed 24hrs on 48hrs off. That would mean you work some holidays and have others off, just by the way calendars work. Also, does the LAFD not have a floater pool? That is what floaters are for, to cover for people when they take off for vacations or family events or dislocate their shoulders slipping on pumpkin guts. 

I often wonder about shows like this. Is there a whole other shift that works at the 118, or does it just close when the main characters aren't there? And is Nash the other shift's captain too, or is there another one?

  • Like 4
Irlandesa

Irlandesa

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I often wonder about shows like this. Is there a whole other shift that works at the 118, or does it just close when the main characters aren't there? And is Nash the other shift's captain too, or is there another one?

I don't know if there's another captain but I do think there's another shift.  I believe Ravi technically belongs to the other shift even though he will work with this crew as well. 

  • Like 4
Calvada

Calvada

The two girls were at fault, but IMO the adult who was driving like a maniac after them during a time when so many people, especially children, were in the area, bears the greater responsibility for the accident.  I questioned the thought of directing the girls to a police station, which immediately became a moot point when the principal crashed his car, and wondered if perhaps a better solution was for them to stop the car, keep the windows up and the doors locked, do not engage with the other driver, and wait for the police to show up.  However, after thinking about it, I realized the 911 center people didn't know if the driver chasing them was armed, and in 2024 America, you probably have to assume they are. 

That teacher in the classroom needs to find a new line of work.  Incompetent, ineffective, just giving up?  I couldn't believe the entire class wasn't taking advantage of her.  

  • Like 4
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

5 hours ago, Calvada said:

The two girls were at fault, but IMO the adult who was driving like a maniac after them during a time when so many people, especially children, were in the area, bears the greater responsibility for the accident.

The VP is entirely responsible for the accident. Just because someone eggs your house doesn't mean you are allowed to try and kill them. In the 911 call they said he was trying to run them off the road. 

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JenLily

JenLily

I know it's her kid and everything, but when Hen was at Denny's side weeping and wailing and shrieking and just generally losing her shit, I was like, calm down, lady. Your kid is looking at you for how to react to what's happening to him and this is exactly how not to keep him calm. I was a sickly kid, in and out of the hospital pretty regularly as a child, and my parents displayed an almost dissociative level of calm in my presence. To this day, I don't know how close I may have been to death at any point during that time because my parents kept that shit away from me.

  • Like 10
Court

Court

I loved the Buck story. My teens still trick or treat and the oldest is 17. I figure let them be kids. I also hated the Hen/Karen fight for a few reasons. 

1. It's Halloween. That's not a huge deal or a some big important holiday. Take the kids to trunk or treats and I promise you they won't remember you weren't there the actual day. 

2. You don't ask your firefighter wife to take off a holiday the day before! If it was that important, ask her at least a month in advance.

3. I also felt this massive guilt trip she kept giving Hen was very out of character for her. It felt forced 

  • Like 8
eel2178

eel2178

(edited)
On 10/26/2024 at 10:17 AM, iMonrey said:

That's the other thing. We've already been through a whole storyline of Hen and Karen losing their kids. How many times are they almost going to lose their kids? Enough of this already. Give it a rest. They can't be on the verge of losing a kid every single episode. Eventually you have to wonder what the hell is wrong with them.

. . . and as usual, the kid survived the unsurvivable. The in-field transfusion only would have worked if they quickly pumped at least half Karen's blood volume into Denny, in which case Karen would no longer have been standing either. Even if it did work, he wouldn't suddenly regain his heartbeat. Then, he comes out of surgery with no ventilator, no additional blood transfusions, no NG tube, no surgical drains and not even a visible bandage.

Edited by eel2178
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KeithJ

KeithJ

On 10/25/2024 at 10:44 AM, Infie said:

Sure, but they had also clearly discussed that Hen would ask for the shift off so that she could go with them.  When Hen asked, Bobby had said that one of Hen or Chim could take off, and without talking to either of their spouses Chim and Hen decided that they would both work because otherwise 'it would be unfair'. 

Yes, but I got the impression she asked on Halloween.  I don't think she asked for it off in advance like most normal people would do.

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