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S01.E06: Familiar by Thy Side

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Agatha All Along

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Going to need sometime to unpact all of this. Is is possible that Jen, Lilia, Alice and even Mrs Heart (on the road) were never real? 

I really liked this episode but, so much is left unanswered after last week. I still hsve no idea where Rio disappeared to or why Billy killed Jen/Lilia unless they really are all figments/hex and Agatha/ Billy are the only real people on the road?

 

 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

So they did go with Billy took over the body of William Kaplan. And he's met Alice and Lilia. Or were they never there? Although Lilia gave him the sigial in one her blackouts. I guess he could've been excited that people he met before the palm reader and the cop were witches too. Did he push them away because they didn't help him with Alice. She was the one always protecting him. 

I know where Rio is because of spoilers, but why isn't Billy asking where she is. She's the wild card in this, since he doesn't know her. 

I do wonder where they will find Tommy. He's not a witch. Maybe he should've been looking for sudden track stars nearby. 

 

 

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Makai

Makai

(edited)

They answered a lot more questions than I expected but I don’t love the format where you stop all forward momentum to give the surprise reveal backstory. It would have been a lot better if 5 & 6 were one episode. 

I did enjoy much of the episode but it was unsatisfying because I ended the last episode with a lot of questions about that trial that seem like they are now going nowhere. 

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

And he's met Alice and Lilia. Or were they never there? Although Lilia gave him the sigial in one her blackouts.

When they first met Alice there was a line that she used to be a cop so I think that what we saw in the flashback really happened. 

I think that Lilia may have drawn the sigil during a vision but when she gave it to him she knew what she was doing. It just looked similar to her blackout because the sigil went to work on her as soon as she stuck it in William’s pocket. 

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Did he push them away because they didn't help him with Alice. She was the one always protecting him. 

 

I think he lashed out at them because of their attitude after Alice was killed. They aligned themselves with Agatha’s view that power is all the matters. 

Edited by Makai
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Rahul

Rahul

I thought this episode was brilliant and had so many zingers and much tongue-in-cheek humor. I totally did not see Teen being "Black Heart" from Lilia's list, as I fell for the obvious red herring of Rio with her line about having a black heart that beats for Agatha.

What exactly did Lilia see in her vision of William and why did she feel the need to give him the sigil? I understand she sugar coated (well more like straight up lied) about the meaning of the broken lifeline, but what exactly was her intent in hiding his identity? How could she have foretold that hiding him from other witches was necessitated here?

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PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

So Billy was actually the black heart all along! It was neither Rio, nor Sharon (Mrs. Hart). Did not see that one coming.

It was really interesting to see how Agatha's police fantasy really played out. Especially that chase, half the internet complained about. Of course it wasn't actually as dramatic or unrealistic. That was all just in Agatha's head.

Nice seeing how everybody was connected.

Also nice seeing Billy kiss his boyfriend. Marvel has had a tendency of teasing some queer relationships and then chickening out at the last second. Now it would be nice if they also had the balls to do it in the movies...

Agatha's speech at Billy about how witches survive was so clearly about herself and her trying to convince herself.

Okay, Alice, Jen and Lilia can't all be dead. It's not going to be the Agatha and Wiccan show for the rest of the season. Also where is Rio? She wasn't swamped. I guess she stayed behind for now, for... reasons. But shouldn't Agatha and Billy ask themselves where she is and wait for her?

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PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Although Lilia gave him the sigial in one her blackouts.

She didn't black out. I thought so too for a second but then I remembered. Agatha explained that that's how sigils work. Even the witch who cast it doesn't remember. So she gave him the sigil intentionally and then immediatly forgot.

44 minutes ago, Makai said:

They answered a lot more questions than I expected but I don’t love the format where you stop all forward momentum to give the surprise reveal backstory. I would have been a lot better if 5 & 6 were one episode. 

Agreed, especially since 5 was so short. I guess they really wanted that cliffhanger to get people talking. But I think it would have worked just as well to generate hype if they had released both episodes back to back. Streaming services don't have airtime, that's the nice thing about them. So they could have absolutely done that.

48 minutes ago, Makai said:

I did enjoy much of the episode but it was unsatisfying because I ended the last episodes with a lot of questions about that trial that seem like they are now going no where. 

Same. Well let's hope we are wrong and they pick it up next episode. Rio still being back there might indicate that it isn't done yet.

36 minutes ago, Rahul said:

What exactly did Lilia see in her vision of William and why did she feel the need to give him the sigil?

I think she saw exactly what would happen to him. Which is why she told him to enjoy the present. She knew he wasn't going to be alive for much longer.

Why exactly she gave him the sigil? That's an interesting question. Maybe she saw multiple possible futures and the ones where they all knew who Billy was from the beginning didn't work out? I think we'll find out in the future.

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Makai

Makai

(edited)

I am wondering exactly when the sigil broke and at what point Lilia got her memory back. Depending of how much who saw when she read William, her “death comes to us all” and attitude to Alice’s death could be her resignation to what Billy was about to do. I will hope she isn’t dead since her role in the flashback opens up s much. 

I had to laugh when I realized that Billy is basically three years old and the ouija board was for ages three and up. 

Edited by Makai
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Makai

Makai

(edited)
1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

It was really interesting to see how Agatha's police fantasy really played out. Especially that chase, half the internet complained about. Of course it wasn't actually as dramatic or unrealistic. That was all just in Agatha's head.

I loved that. Billy is just spilling everything and Agatha is playing the tough cop. Billy’s lines in reaction were great. The outtakes are probably amazing.

“I don’t wanna go back in the closet” 

Edited by Makai
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Heh, considering how controversial the twist was on Wandavision, I kind of love that they brought back Ralph Bohner for a scene.  Granted, no matter where one lands on the concept and childish name, you really can't complain too much about getting more Evan Peters!  Definitely had some solid comedic moments here, but I liked that they did address how messed up he was after what Agatha did and made him do.  Including actually making him be the one to poison poor Sparky.  Damn, Agatha!

So, Billy's new body belongs to William Kaplan: a seemingly nice kid who died in a car accident outside of Westview when all that shit was going down three years ago.  An interesting wrinkle for sure: especially if his/William's parents ever find out the truth.  But it looks like the reason Billy wants to complete the Witches Road is to hopefully find out whatever happened to Tommy.

Seeing the real version of the chase sequences from the premiere was hilariously great.  As was the interrogation.  Kathryn Hahn and Joe Locke seemed to be having so much fun there.

So, are Jen and Lilia actually dead or where they never on the Witches Road in the first place?  Was confused by all of that.  Did like seeing all of them in the flashbacks: including Lilia being the one who gave William the sigil since she got a vision of what was going to happen.

Rio's absence was suspicious.

Definitely loving Agatha's dark side becoming more prominent now that the trial is closer to its end.  Really curious to see how this will play out for her, Billy, and everyone else.

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magdalene

magdalene

Yes, I like that they had the gumption to bring back Ralph Boner.  I too remember a fan boys kerfuffle over that character. It's so hard to keep track of all the fan boy rage, there being a cottage industry of fan boys kerfuffling all over.

I really like the actor who plays Billy, he is very expressive.

When Agatha mentioned "Robo Papa" I was all please give me Paul Bettany back.

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arc

arc

The sound design was too artsy to be intelligible. I had to turn on subtitles for the bit in the car where kid Billy and Tommy wished each other goodnight as Wanda was closing down the HEx, and also all the mind reading Billy did.

So did Billy Maximoff completely overwrite Billy/William Kaplan? Did Kaplan die in the car crash so Maximoff just moved into his body? I'm impressed the MCU is sticking this close to the absurdly complex comics canon about who Wiccan is.

Billy (Kaplan, I guess) is now the second MCU teen whose bedroom is a single-focus shrine to their interests, after Kamala's room all about Captain Marvel.

I get that Ralph (Randall?) was very traumatized by the Hex and also Agatha, but he's written and plays very aggressively crazy, and it's offputting.

OK, Agatha survived the attempted drowning. I mean, of course, the show is literally named after her. But I'm glad she's back; she was great. I really don't want Jen and Lilia to be dead. Like, Lilia doesn't even get to star in her own trial? Or take a lead vocals on a version of the Witches' Road song?

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Bill1978

Bill1978

So much to take away from this episode, but the main thing was discovering Billy Kaplan was a big enough fan of The Black Cauldron to have the movie poster in his room. Always happy when some piece of Disney media acknowledges the movie's existence.

So now that I've got Wiccan, I hope I don't have to wait forever for Tommy. I hope Tommy is at the end of the road.

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arc

arc

1 hour ago, Mvnl said:

So Lilia probably wrote a heart on the list because she couldn't write his name, because of the sigil.. but then how could Billy write down his own name when he was doing research on Wanda and family at home?

According to this episode's version of what happened in ep 2, Billy does not perceive the effects of the sigil. In ep 2, he was magically censored from both saying William Kaplan* and Billy Maximoff, but in this episode, presumably from his POV, he said both names clearly.

* there's no way this logic holds. He couldn't say "William Kaplan" to people for the last three years?

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PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

Shower thoughts:

The original ballad of the witches road doesn't say anything about "I'll see you at the end.", like Lorna Wu's version does, it says "Follow me my friend, to glory at the end." instead.

But the road changes for the coven. All these people were familiar with Lorna's version, probably more familiar than with the original. Billy probably only ever knew the Lorna Wu version.

So what if when Agatha walked the road there really was just "glory at the end", but now, with this new coven and their changed expectations, lost loved ones will wait for them at the end of the road? Like the rest of the coven and Billy's brother.

4 hours ago, magdalene said:

Yes, I like that they had the gumption to bring back Ralph Boner.  I too remember a fan boys kerfuffle over that character. It's so hard to keep track of all the fan boy rage, there being a cottage industry of fan boys kerfuffling all over.

To be fair, that was a bit of a dick move. Bringing in the actor who plays Wanda's brother in the X-Men movies and outright saying that it's Wanda's brother in the show, only to tell fans "don't be stupid, why would you believe us?".

Personally I didn't care, but I can see why fans would have been pissed.

3 hours ago, HelloooKitty said:

Who played William’s mom and where the heck do I know her from?!

Maria Dizzia

You know her possibly from Orange is the new black? Here's a list of stuff she's been in: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1978694/

3 hours ago, arc said:

So did Billy Maximoff completely overwrite Billy/William Kaplan? Did Kaplan die in the car crash so Maximoff just moved into his body? I'm impressed the MCU is sticking this close to the absurdly complex comics canon about who Wiccan is.

Agatha said the body was empty. So yeah, he was dead. If there is still some of William Kaplan in there, I don't know. Actually I don't think so. People I've heard talking about it said yes, but I think that is comic-lore. The show has given no indication that there is anybody but Billy Maximoff in there.

1 hour ago, Mvnl said:

but then how could Billy write down his own name when he was doing research on Wanda and family at home?

He also audibly said it. We heard it in the flashback. I think it's just other witches can't hear or see it. Otherwise that would have been a very awkward 3 years, since "William Kaplan" was also blocked by the sigil. Imagine trying to say your name in class or at the doctors and suddenly there is a sigil over your mouth.

  • Like 2
Sakura12

Sakura12

Billy told his boyfriend that he can't remember anything before the accident, so he has no memories of William Kaplan. But he also didn't seem to know who he was until Ralph Bohner told him about Wanda's kids. 

He really is his mother's son. He took over some dead kids body and his poor parents have no idea they lost their son. 

I also think only witches can't hear his name. Normal humans can hear him, like his boyfriend. 

  • Like 6
PurpleTentacle

PurpleTentacle

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Billy told his boyfriend that he can't remember anything before the accident, so he has no memories of William Kaplan. But he also didn't seem to know who he was until Ralph Bohner told him about Wanda's kids. 

I think he meant of the life William Kaplan lived. He seems to remember that he was Billy Maximoff and the events of Wandavision after he was born. At least vaguely.

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

He really is his mother's son. He took over some dead kids body and his poor parents have no idea they lost their son. 

That is sad. On the other hand I really can't blame a 10 year old in the body of a teenager for not coming clean. He must have been so scared.

And while it's cruel in a way, his parents don't know any better, so they are happy. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

Edited by PurpleTentacle
  • Like 8
baldryanr

baldryanr

13 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That is sad. On the other hand I really can't blame a 10 year old in the body of a teenager for not coming clean. He must have been so scared.

And while it's cruel in a way, his parents don't know any better, so they are happy. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

If he tried to come clean his parents would have sent him to a never ending stream of therapists.  Even with all the weird stuff that happens in the MCU, what normal person would believe their son's body is now inhabited by the soul of a child that was conjured from the ether by a grieving magician? 

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tired and hungry

tired and hungry

4 hours ago, arc said:

So did Billy Maximoff completely overwrite Billy/William Kaplan? Did Kaplan die in the car crash so Maximoff just moved into his body?

If you listen to the car crash scene, you can hear William's heartbeat slowly fading and then stopping altogether. Only after that his body gets taken over by Billy. So I think we can say that William was basically dead when Billy moved in

  • Like 8
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Granted, no matter where one lands on the concept and childish name, you really can't complain too much about getting more Evan Peters! 

I thought that was Evan Peters but, for some reason i thought he was really tall and he wasnt compared to the boys. Started second guessing if it was really him 😁

Hmm a $20 price hike for almost no content.  Disney+ is quickly pricing itself out of a customer

Edited by Morrigan2575
lovett1979

lovett1979

3 hours ago, arc said:

According to this episode's version of what happened in ep 2, Billy does not perceive the effects of the sigil. In ep 2, he was magically censored from both saying William Kaplan* and Billy Maximoff, but in this episode, presumably from his POV, he said both names clearly.

* there's no way this logic holds. He couldn't say "William Kaplan" to people for the last three years?

Ok, just re-watched the scene from Episode 3 where they all discover the sigil. Teen/Billy seems surprised, as if he never knew there was something there. Now, he does show the stone/wood/whatever to the Boyf in this episode and names it as a sigil and says it's a puzzle. I guess we don't really know how much of what he says there is truth or obfuscation, but I'm choosing to believe he knows it's SOMETHING witchy, but not really know what it is/does. Also, in ep 3, they explain that it's a redaction spell to prevent "witchfolk" from knowing who he is. So I don't think it would have had an effect on his normal life with the muggles.

  • Like 6
Snapdragon

Snapdragon

I do think some of the real William Kaplan might still be in there, just because when Wiccan was explaining his mind reading powers, he said he could only do it when someone he was connected to was having intense thoughts and right after he got out of the hospital, he could read the Kaplan parents' thoughts, who Billy wouldn't have a connection to, but William would.  And he also had some line in the episode about kinda not being William (or something like that), which makes me wonder if there was a slight blending of the two.  

  • Like 7
Enigma X

Enigma X

I just have to say, Joe Locke is doing an incredible job. Billy is everything I hoped for—full of depth and heart. I'm especially glad that the person Billy is searching for is Tommy and not Wanda. It’s so refreshing to see their sibling bond being the focus rather than just another storyline tied to Wanda. (And I love Wanda and thinks she deserves better than what she got in MoM.) Tommy deserves more attention, and I’m thrilled to see where this goes.

As for the YouTubers who aren’t fans of the show—that’s totally fine! Everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but some critiques border on annoying. 

  • Like 7
Stardancer Supreme

Stardancer Supreme

18 hours ago, arc said:

According to this episode's version of what happened in ep 2, Billy does not perceive the effects of the sigil. In ep 2, he was magically censored from both saying William Kaplan* and Billy Maximoff, but in this episode, presumably from his POV, he said both names clearly.

* there's no way this logic holds. He couldn't say "William Kaplan" to people for the last three years?

The sigil only held for witches or other magical folk. Billy could say his names to anyone else but witches. He said his name to his boyfriend, but couldn't because of the sigil Lilia placed on William Kaplan.

  • Like 2
Bill1978

Bill1978

7 hours ago, jacehan said:

Here's my question: is Eddie Teddy? Or just a coincidence of similar names? (Also probably outside the bounds of this show.)

I hope not. It just feels like too much of a coincidence for the two to know each other before they become their true self. Plus, I feel it would feel more natural to introduce Teddy through a Captain Marvel related property. Was genuinely hoping for something random with Teddy in Secret Invasion or The Marvels to be honest.

  • Like 3
rwlevin

rwlevin

That opening Bar Mitzvah scene was excellent except for the Torah reading. It should have been sung. For getting so much right, why did they get that one part wrong? It’s interesting that Billy Maximoff, who’s Jewish in the comics, gets reincarnated/inhabits the body of a Jewish child, who is also Jewish in the comics. I love the representation. It makes me feel seen.

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Nerfect Drifty

Nerfect Drifty

I presume that William Kaplan died in the car accident and Billy Maximoff then inhabited his corpse.  Where did Billy come from?  Was he just some spirit that Wanda had created that flew into William after the spell over Westview was broken?

Also, why was the breaking of the spell such an emergency that everyone had to leave the bar mitzvah so suddenly?                

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 hour ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

Also, why was the breaking of the spell such an emergency that everyone had to leave the bar mitzvah so suddenly?

Because they didnt know what was happeneing, when they got the notice to shelter at home. I think Emergency Services were trying to get people further away from the bubble incase it expanded or blew up. 

1 hour ago, Nerfect Drifty said:

Where did Billy come from?  Was he just some spirit that Wanda had created that flew into William after the spell over Westview was broken?

Its been a long while since i watched the end of Wandavision but, i remember Vision/Billy/Tommy sort of desopving as Wanda released the Hex. So it's possible that with them being created by the Mind Stone/Hex the spirit/mind/soul lingered while the physicap desolved.

Presumably Hex!Vision could have trabsfered to White!Vision, Tommy is lost in Limbo and Billy found the nearest empty vessel to occupy.

Hopefully we'll get answers before the end of the series

Featherhat

Featherhat

I enjoyed that one. I was worried that a flashback episode would slow the narrative down but I think it was badly needed. 

The extended Bar Mitzvah scene and party served as a pretty good introduction to William Kaplan, his parents and his world. Not to mention Lilia! I wouldn't have picked her for the one that cast the sigil on Billy but her couple of scenes were awesome. It was incredibly sad to realise that when she told William he was a good egg and to enjoy the moment that he literally only had moments left. Although I do think it's possible that William is still in there somewhere or amalgamated but we'll have to wait and see. The fact that he doesn't remember anything from before the accident would probably go against that. 

Speaking of it was great how supportive his boyfriend was of Billy admitting part of the truth at least and that they just treated their relationship as they would any other. 

Really loved the scenes from Billy's side of ep 1, both funny and a clever way to tie it all together. And another glimpse of poor Mrs Hart, RIP. 

It will very interesting to see how this ties up as we don't have that long left. 

I did miss Rio and I don't think it's a coincidence that she's suddenly not there.

On 10/17/2024 at 2:49 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

Going to need sometime to unpact all of this. Is is possible that Jen, Lilia, Alice and even Mrs Heart (on the road) were never real? 

 

That's not something I'd really considered but it is interesting. I think they'll end up having been real as they all have reasons for wanting/needing to be on the road. I think playing with reality might be a part though, beyond the obvious trials because it came up again this ep. 

Turtle Wexler

Turtle Wexler

On 10/16/2024 at 9:49 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Going to need sometime to unpact all of this. Is is possible that Jen, Lilia, Alice and even Mrs Heart (on the road) were never real? 

I hope this is the case, though I did like the nod to Life Goes On via Agatha’s indifference that Jen and Lilia were gone.

 

On 10/19/2024 at 3:33 PM, Quickbeam said:

 

I enjoyed this episode because it was a little more focused. It also unspooled more backstory. I’m coming at this series (and Wandavision) with no canon knowledge and I’m barely keeping up.

 

Same here. I originally watched Wandavision because the idea of someone being trapped in sitcoms was a quirky, fun premise—and I love many of those older sitcoms—but I really enjoyed the series and was happy when Agatha All Along was announced. I just finished rewatching Wandavision so I could start this, and I am enjoying it, but feel more lost than I did watching Wandavision.

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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

(edited)
On 10/18/2024 at 9:00 AM, rwlevin said:

That opening Bar Mitzvah scene was excellent except for the Torah reading. It should have been sung. For getting so much right, why did they get that one part wrong? It’s interesting that Billy Maximoff, who’s Jewish in the comics, gets reincarnated/inhabits the body of a Jewish child, who is also Jewish in the comics. I love the representation. It makes me feel seen.

Yes, the bracha (blessing) before singing the Torah portion was accurate, but the parsha (Torah portion) wasn't leined (sung with proper cantillation).  He also started reading it in the middle of a verse, which doesn't make any sense.

This article implies that Joe Locke did recite the bracha, though, so I don't understand why he wasn't taught to chant a few words of the parsha:

https://forward.com/fast-forward/666016/agatha-all-along-bar-mitzvah-william-kaplan/

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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lovett1979

lovett1979

I mentioned this as a response to someone on Twitter and a lot of people "liked" it so I thought I'd share here. Someone had posted a quote from Joe talking about having to wear a facade for William's parents. I mentioned that a trans youtuber (who mostly makes Heartstopper-related content) had done a reaction video for this episode specifically. He mentions that he felt a lot of parallels between Billy/William and his trans experience. For example, looking at himself in the mirror and not seeing the person on the outside that he is on the inside, and then practicing saying his name to "convince" himself.

Here is the video if you are interested. Thom always has a lot of good insights into much of what he posts about. 

 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

This certainly does explain a lot, although I still have several questions, first and foremost being where Tommy is. The whole situation with Billy is really messed up and tragic, poor William Kaplan died and his loving parents have no idea, and Billy ended up being shoved into the body of another kid as a ten year old with powers he doesn't understand and no memory of who he is. I don't blame him for not telling his "parents" the truth, its not like "your son died and I'm the magically constructed child of a witch and a robot who was shunted into your sons corpse" or even "I don't think I'm your son who is probably dead and also I'm psychic" would go over well, even in a universe where magic and aliens are known to exist. Regardless of who Billy is and  if William is there at all, he does obviously still care about them and wouldn't want to hurt them with the truth. 

Billy and his boyfriend are cute, I appreciate how casual their relationship was shown and how supportive his boyfriend is, even if what Billy is saying is pretty out there. I always knew that they would bring Billy and Tommy back, especially if the MCU wants to introduce the Young Avengers, and this seems like a pretty good way to do it. Now where the hell is Tommy?

How tragic is it that so many people died in Wanda's grief filled rampage, including Wanda herself, when one of her sons was just in the next town over, and all because of Lillia's well intentioned spell to keep this kid safe from dark magic?

I know that we learned a whole lot of information, but I think the biggest revelation to me is that Agatha is the original Joleen and was smacked in the face by Dolly Parton!

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Cattoy

Cattoy

I just did a rewatch of the earlier episodes last night. In the first episode, "Agnes the detective" talked about a car crash outside of town. Both front airbags were deployed, and there was blood in the backseat. Obviously - to me, at least - that was William's death scene. But, that was three years before the "current" time frame. So, I'm confused. Do we know when this takes place in regards to MoM? Was Wanda's death what allowed Billy to break her spell on Agatha?

  • Like 2
Ottis

Ottis

On 10/16/2024 at 11:18 PM, Makai said:

They answered a lot more questions than I expected but I don’t love the format where you stop all forward momentum to give the surprise reveal backstory. It would have been a lot better if 5 & 6 were one episode. 

Me, neither. I almost peaced out in this ep because I wasn't interested in William's back story, but Bohnerrific69 showed up just in time. That dude and his family reunion t-shirts are gold.

That said, I have no interest in Wanda Maximoff or her kids. WandaVision was one of the most disappointing shows I've watched, a premise that could have gone in many directions and instead became someone's drawn out miniseries about way-over-the-top grief. I still remember the moment where it became clear that what was happening was Wanda and not something interesting, and the let down I felt.

Which means Agatha is now less interesting to me as well. I knew zero about Agatha Harkness when we met her in WandaVision and I came to this series hoping to learn more. I'm not happy that we have now connected with the Maximoffs. 

 

 

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