S01.E03: Through Many Miles/ Of Tricks and Trials

[AimingforYoko]

Quote

The coven faces their first perilous test on The Witches' Road.

R.I.P. Mrs. HartSharon.

I hope there's a twist and we get more Debra Jo Rupp, she was a delight.

I like that the trials peel back the layers of the coven as we go down The Road. Hopefully Teen's backstory is more than just another red herring.

[Raja]

After all these years of hearing the nerd press speculate about him was this the first actual MCU reference to Mephisto?

At this point Ms. Marvel remains the only show I was actively waiting for the next episode for since Disney + took over all of MCU TV.

[Sakura12]

Who's Sharon? Agatha's such a dick and I love it. That said I'm going to miss Sharon. 

So Agatha never walked the road before. Because you need one of each type of witch. And she doesn't seem to know what's going on. 

I loved the Real Housewives of the MCU look. It's great they are keeping the different eras TV shows theme going. This is a creative way to do it. 

Agatha was terrified of her nightmare. I wonder if there is more to the story about what happened to her son. Does she think the Teen is her son. She looked to be protecting him by stopping him from drinking the poison.

Mephisto was actually spoken out loud. 

I also wonder if none of the witches can hear his name or if it was because Agatha was there. 

Edited September 26 by Sakura12

[Stardancer Supreme]

35 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Who's Sharon? Agatha's such a dick and I love it. That said I'm going to miss Sharon. 

So Agatha never walked the road before. Because you need one of each type of witch. And she doesn't seem to know what's going on. 

Mephisto was actually spoken out loud. 

I also wonder if none of the witches can hear his name or if it was because Agatha was there. 

I was hoping that Sharon would turn out to be a witch.

None of the witches could hear Teen's name. They recognized the spell preventing them from hearing his name. They assumed that Agatha had done the sigil spell.

[Rahul]

So Sharon died because no one thought to include her hair and DNA in the potion? C'mon gals...I thought they would handle the task at hand a bit better than that.

Loved the parody reference to Tiny Little Lies Everywhere, a hodgepodge of the TV adaptations of Big Little Lies and Little Fires Everywhere.

The show is doing some heavy handed hinting that Teen may in fact be Nicholas Scratch, Agatha's son who she gave up for the Darkhold but this seems like a very obvious misdirect to me--especially so early in the season.

[dwmarch]

I'm not convinced Sharon is actually dead. We've already seen that the Witches' Road has its own set of rules that don't align with reality. There was also that line about how Sharon was "so tiny... why is she so heavy?"

13 minutes ago, Rahul said:

The show is doing some heavy handed hinting that Teen may in fact be Nicholas Scratch, Agatha's son who she gave up for the Darkhold but this seems like a very obvious misdirect to me--especially so early in the season.

I got the same impression. They are pushing the connection too hard for it to be that obvious.

[Brn2bwild]

It's sad that Sharon's last reflections before her death ("death"?) were her fear and powerlessness under Wanda's spell.  

I agree that it would be too obvious for Teen to be Nicholas Scratch.  

Agatha guessing correctly that the "all natural" products were filled with chemicals was hilarious.

Does anyone know what was meant by the line “Try to save Agatha”?

[Rahul]

17 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Does anyone know what was meant by the line “Try to save Agatha”?

Lilia Calderu is a divination witch who has the power of premonition and sees flashes of the future. I took this moment to be her having one particular such flash, of an event happening in the (not so distant) future.

I'm certain that line will come to pass at some point on The Witches' Road. In the second episode, we saw her have another such moment of non-lucidity where she seemed to be hallucinating and yelled out "Get them off of me" or something.

[Featherhat]

They've got to be trolling us with the Mephisto mention right? I know he's connected to some of the characters that Teen and Rio are speculated to be but to outright bring it up is a nod to the WandaVision craziness. Teen being Agatha's son seems too obvious right now but they're clearly setting him up to believe it "wouldn't know him if he knocked on her door" and maybe Agatha believing it. It seems she may have given up a kid for the Darkhold but there also could be more to it. 

RIP Sharon. I knew it was going to happen but that was brutal. They remembered her enough to physically feed her the potion and bring her along but not enough to get her hair. I did like that they semi lampshaded the "random woman who has no obvious power" and that no one is taking Agatha's pronouncements with anything but scepticism but I wish DJR was in this a bit more. Maybe she'll pop up at the end. But this is going to be Rio's chance to pop up and cause chaos. Loved Agatha's ice cold "Who's Sharon?". 

I loved the continuing TV theme and the Real Housewives of MCU theme. Loved the "natural" products filled with petroleum and Jen had to admit it to live.

Really enjoying this wacky, spooky romp down the road in the run up to Halloween. 

[Bill1978]

Random question : Have all the names that appear in the credits appeared? This week's episode, I counted 3 spots left empty. One is definitely Aubrey's as it appeared in the first episode, but I can't recall if the other two have already appeared or not

And look I may be projecting because I really want it to be him, but I feel like tonight I could read Teen's lips saying Billy as the sigil did it's best to cover that up.

I'm hoping Sharon isn't truly gone (but she probably is), I always like when a regular person is calling out the odd stuff happening that those in the know just treat like normal.

For I show I had no interest in caring that it existed, it has me keen for more episodes even if big picture wise I don't feel like there is much of a story apart from witches walk along road and do a new trial every week until they reach the end.

[KeithJ]

Damn.  They killed Kitty.  I guess they had to though for Aubrey to come take her place.

I don't remember, did Agatha really trade her child for the darkhold?  If so, is the kid going to end up being her son?

Edited September 26 by KeithJ

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I'm not convinced Sharon is actually dead. We've already seen that the Witches' Road has its own set of rules that don't align with reality. There was also that line about how Sharon was "so tiny... why is she so heavy?"

I'm the same. The way that Sharon disappeared in the middle of the episode only to show up unconscious makes me think there is more to it. We also did not see her hallucination like we did with the rest of the poisoned characters. 

[Rahul]

What does everyone make of what occurred in the witches' poison induced hallucinations--specifically with Jennifer Kale and Lilia Calderu? 

To me it appeared that Jennifer was being drowned by a man who donned some kind of surgical garb from the 1800s. I'm very curious to know what was going on there. 

[driver18]

Two observations. First off, I'm really loving this so far. So much so that I kinda wish I had waited to watch it until it was over so I could just enjoy the whole thing.

Second, lots of comments in here about how obvious it would be that Teen is Agatha's son, but in the last thread for the 1st two eps, there were lots of comments about how obvious it would be that Teen was one of Wanda's boys. So.... in three episodes, we already have three candidates for who Teen is that viewers think are lampshaded as "obvious."

I think the show is doing good!

Edited September 26 by driver18

[Featherhat]

3 hours ago, Rahul said:

What does everyone make of what occurred in the witches' poison induced hallucinations--specifically with Jennifer Kale and Lilia Calderu? 

To me it appeared that Jennifer was being drowned by a man who donned some kind of surgical garb from the 1800s. I'm very curious to know what was going on there. 

Both were extremely creepy. Lilia's might have been a death omen, I'm also interested in the random "try to save Agatha" she spat out later. That's clearly going to come up at some point. 

Creepy Victorian hospitals are one of my least favourite vibes and trying to get rid of the "inconvenient woman" is still an upsettingly prevalent mindset. Jen is a water witch so it makes sense thematically that drowning would be the choice of murder and one of the traditional ways to execute a witch. It was the way the road also tried to kill them during her trial. It probably has some basis in what happened to her in the past and what her biggest fear is? Not sure what it means for her future. 

3 hours ago, driver18 said:

Two observations. First off, I'm really living this so far. So much so, that I kinda wish I had waited to watch it until it was over so I could just enjoy the whole thing.

Second, lots of comments in here about how obvious it would be that Teen is Agatha's son, but in the last thread for the 1st two eps, there were lots of comments about how obvious it would be that Teen was one of Wanda's boys. So.... in three episodes, we already have three candidates for who Teen is that viewers think are lampshaded as "obvious."

I think the show is doing good!

I'm not sure most of the general watchers would have thought it "obvious" that Teen might be one of Wanda's boys last ep but they certainly were being invited by the show to think he's Agatha's son this ep. I'm theoretically spoiled for who he is (kind of) that doesn't really answer who he is as there are lots of ways they could get there. Wanda is clearly hanging over this show to a large extent and clearly Agatha's son is going to be a factor whether or not Teen is him. 

For me this show is doing a good job of setting up some intriguing mysteries and having a good time with the group. I hope they stick the landing. I also like how it is tied thematically to WandaVision and apparently VisionQuest is going to round out the West View Trilogy, most likely in another 3 years by the way the MCU pace is going right now. 

[driver18]

9 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I'm not sure most of the general watchers would have thought it "obvious" that Teen might be one of Wanda's boys last ep

I wasn't talking about the general watchers, though. I was specifically referencing watchers like us who would be paying attention and guessing. And, as I pointed out, the 2-part premiere had plenty saying how obvious the show was lampshading that Teen was one of Wanda's sons. Then, the very next outing, another obvious lampshading of another potential character he could be. My point is that I think AAA is doing a clever job at not being so obvious after all.

[lovett1979]

I really hope that Teen isn't Billy Maximoff for a few reasons. First, he doesn't actually exist in this universe. The Billy in WandaVision was created solely by Wanda and only possible in the Hex. He disappeared when the Hex came down. This is why Wanda had to use the Darkhold to find another universe where the kids actually DID exist. So if this is her Billy, where did he come from?

Next, where is Tommy? It makes no sense (and would be pretty sloppy writing) to have Billy existing here somehow and not have Tommy.

Finally, I REALLY want all the smug posters on Twitter who have been crowing for months that he is Billy Maximoff to be proved wrong. /petty

Spoiler is a theory about Teen mentioned by New Rockstars YouTube

Spoiler

They are theorizing that Teen is Billy Kaplan (a different Billy!) who is possessed by Nicholas Scratch (Agatha's son). He will eventually become Wiccan and join the Young Avengers. You can find the whole video on YouTube and see their evidence.

 

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, driver18 said:

I wasn't talking about the general watchers, though. I was specifically referencing watchers like us who would be paying attention and guessing. And, as I pointed out, the 2-part premiere had plenty saying how obvious the show was lampshading that Teen was one of Wanda's sons. Then, the very next outing, another obvious lampshading of another potential character he could be. My point is that I think AAA is doing a clever job at not being so obvious after all.

Oh, right. I think they're doing a good job of keeping us guessing, though a lot of "he's Billy" came from online rumours and the casting not the show itself.  

I'm sort of trying to let it all flow over me though, I got way deep into the craziness of WandaVision theories. 

40 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

I really hope that Teen isn't Billy Maximoff for a few reasons. First, he doesn't actually exist in this universe. The Billy in WandaVision was created solely by Wanda and only possible in the Hex. He disappeared when the Hex came down. This is why Wanda had to use the Darkhold to find another universe where the kids actually DID exist. So if this is her Billy, where did he come from?

Next, where is Tommy? It makes no sense (and would be pretty sloppy writing) to have Billy existing here somehow and not have Tommy.

Finally, I REALLY want all the smug posters on Twitter who have been crowing for months that he is Billy Maximoff to be proved wrong. /petty

Spoiler is a theory about Teen mentioned by New Rockstars YouTube

  Reveal spoiler

They are theorizing that Teen is Billy Kaplan (a different Billy!) who is possessed by Nicholas Scratch (Agatha's son). He will eventually become Wiccan and join the Young Avengers. You can find the whole video on YouTube and see their evidence.

 

 

Spoiler

Well a lot of the online rumours *are* that he's Billy Kaplan/Wiccan and not the Billy Maximoff Wanda created. Stuntman's alleged resume and all that. 

I also wonder if it's going to be something with him being Billy and Agatha's son some how or if possession comes into it so it's tangled up. Clearly her son is going to affect the story some how whether he's "alive" or not. 

 

Edited September 26 by Featherhat

[Morrigan2575]

I really like the creepy vibes of the show, as well as the mini backstories we're getting.  I'm not 100% sure that Sharon is dead, even though I figured there would be casualties along the way. At this point I'm assuming only Agatha and Teen have plot armor and maybe Rio once she pops back up.

I'm still wondering if Sharon was just a normal human or if she's something more. It could go either way, she was the first to spot the door and the road appeared even though she wasn't an earth witch. On the other hand, it could all have been misdirection to make us think there's more to her story.

[Sakura12]

7 hours ago, Rahul said:

What does everyone make of what occurred in the witches' poison induced hallucinations--specifically with Jennifer Kale and Lilia Calderu?

According to the credits the woman Lilia saw was her younger self. So she's an Italian witch from the 1500 or 1600s. The older woman was listed as her teacher. So something happed with death? Maybe she was blamed for a plague? 

Jen saw a doctor from what looked like the 1920's, if she lost her powers 100 years ago, that's probably when she lost them.  That doctor could be a sorcerer like Dr. Strange. 

Agatha did mention a car crash involving 2 people. So that could've been Billy and Tommy. 

I did see the theory that it's Billy Kaplan being possessed by Nicholas. So Wanda and Agatha's sons could be combined. 

I loved that Lilia knew the witch from Hansel and Gretal. 

Lilia's outbursts have to come back as well. What do we have so far. 

"get off me"

"I love you guys"

"Try to save Agatha"

 

Edited September 26 by Sakura12

[magdalene]

Oh no, did they really kill off Kitty?

[thuganomics85]

Aww, man, RIP Sharon!  I noticed they were forgetting her during all of the potion making and (literal) hair pulling, but I can understand how they're desperation made them forget about the poor non-witch that was still laying on the couch.  That said, we'll see if it sticks because is definitely a type of show/situation where I can see them reversing it somehow.

A variation of the atypical "Lets get glimpses of our supporting cast' backstories/traumas" that is common on television, but I enjoyed getting glimpses of their past and the horrors that come with it.  Makes me understand why they will likely be sticking with Agatha despite clearly not trusting her for good reason.  Even if they hate her, I think they understand her in ways only other witches can, and they will try and see it through to the end.

Definitely think they were hinting at the Mysterious Teen being Agatha's son, but I think that is too obvious.  I'm sure there is a lot more to this particular story.

Kathryn Hahn really is perfection as Agatha.

Mephisto shoutout!

Really enjoying the series so far.

[arc]

10 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

I really hope that Teen isn't Billy Maximoff for a few reasons. […]

Spoiler is a theory about Teen mentioned by New Rockstars YouTube

  Hide contents

They are theorizing that Teen is Billy Kaplan (a different Billy!) who is possessed by Nicholas Scratch (Agatha's son). He will eventually become Wiccan and join the Young Avengers. You can find the whole video on YouTube and see their evidence.

 

Well, in the comics, my loose understanding is that

Spoiler

Billy Kaplan more or less is Billy Maximoff. A reincarnated version. So for fans speculating, the two Billy's are effectively the same person.

 

[Mvnl]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Lilia's outbursts have to come back as well. What do we have so far. 

"get off me"

"I love you guys"

"Try to save Agatha"

 

Could all of these be a character's final words? They all kinda read like they could be.

[arc]

* Interestingly, the show has been in Cinemascope aspect ratio until now. Or more accurately, Westview and the Road have been in Cinemascope, but once they entered the house of the first trial, the aspect ratio switched to 16:9.

Marvel typically uses Cinemascope, except for Avengers 1 (all 16:9) and Wandavision and She-Hulk, which used both for narrative effect. In Wandavision, the real MCU was in Cinemascope and Wanda's reality was a more TV-like 4:3/16:9. In She-Hulk, the real MCU was in Cinemascope and breaking the fourth wall into the real world of Marvel Studios was in 16:9.

* I hope Sharon isn't dead. Last episode, all the other witches insisted a "green witch" was the most necessary for the Road. So either she'll return or, as we've seen in trailers,

Spoiler

Rio will take the role of the green witch.

 

[Jediknight]

This show is creepy as hell, and I am here for it.

Teen isn't Agatha's son, but they're hammering home that Agatha sacrificed her son too much.  Agatha didn't kill her son, but she still blames herself for not protecting him, and lets people think she sacrificed him.  Her reaction to Teen offering to drink was telling, doesn't seem like the action of a woman who sacrificed her son for power.  Rio played a part, and it's why Agatha hates her so much.

[Sakura12]

Her reaction to her nightmare doesn't seem like someone that gave up her son willingly. During her quest for power she may not have known the price was going to be her kid. Then she let everyone think that she traded him for the Darkhold to keep her reputation going. 

 

[Stardancer Supreme]

I'm not falling for the "Teen is actually Wiccan" rumors yet. I'm a comics reader and I will put my thought about Teen's actual identity below:

Spoiler

I believe that Teen is the physical embodiment of the Darkhold. Wanda may be a powerful witch, but she probably couldn't destroy the actual Darkhold itself.

 

[arc]

On second thought, I think Sharon is dead. Ever since the crew said the lyrics to the ballad break down the show, I've been combing over them. I think this part applies here:

Quote

If one bе gone, we carry on
Spirit as our guide

 

[Bruinsfan]

On 9/25/2024 at 10:55 PM, Brn2bwild said:

Agatha guessing correctly that the "all natural" products were filled with chemicals was hilarious.

Hey, petroleum is natural. And organic!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

19 hours ago, arc said:

On second thought, I think Sharon is dead. Ever since the crew said the lyrics to the ballad break down the show, I've been combing over them. I think this part applies here:

 

 

19 hours ago, arc said:

If one bе gone, we carry on
Spirit as our guide

Perhaps Sharon's spirit will accompany them.

[Morrigan2575]

What is Agatha? 

Jennifer Kale is Water 

Ali Ahn is Fire

Black Hart ( Rio or Sharon) is Earth

Agatha or Lilia Calderu is Air?

I assumed Agatha was Air because she flew in Wandavision but, then why did they need Lilia?

 

 

[Sakura12]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What is Agatha? 

Jennifer Kale is Water 

Ali Ahn is Fire

Black Hart ( Rio or Sharon) is Earth

Agatha or Lilia Calderu is Air?

I assumed Agatha was Air because she flew in Wandavision but, then why did they need Lilia?

 

 

There are 5 elements in witchcraft. Earth, air, water, fire and spirit. To make the pentagon. 

Jen - water

Alice - fire

Rio - earth

Lilia - spirit

Agatha - air

Edited September 29 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

There are 5 elements in witchcraft. Earth, air, water, fire and spirit. To make the pentagon. 

Jen - water

Alice - fire

Rio - earth

Lilia - spirit

Agatha - air

Oh thanks. I was reading the songs lyrics and, they didn't mention spirit...except for the second verse that was quoted above. So, I guess the Spirit as our guide doesn't mean Sharon but, Lilia. The funny thing is Agatha seems to be more of the guide since she traveled the road before...allegedly. 

[arc]

I assumed Agatha was spirit and Lilia air. Back in ep 2, Agatha called out the other witches for being the four fundamental elements, and she definitely didn’t point to herself on “air”.

[tired and hungry]

While I'm enjoying the show so far (been a while since I watched a Marvel show since Secret Invasion and Loki), the concept of "facing your fears" has been done to death.. The comedy is great but I just wish it was more grim & darker you know..

It feels like everyone is going to survive and get a happy ending (I know its only the third episode and anything can happen) but nothing is really keeping me on the edge of my seat.. Feels like there's no high stakes for any of the characters. Even in Episode 1 when the Salem Seven appear, it's supposed to invoke this fear that they are really scary but they barely do anything and just walk towards the house at the brisk pace of a serial killer in movies..(I don't read the comics so maybe they aren't that terrifying to begin with)

Just my random nitpick about the show I guess.. Is the show Spooky? Absolutely and perfect for the Halloween season too. Will I continue to watch it? Of Course. But it's not giving me true scary vibes...  

Edited September 29 by tired and hungry

[Sakura12]

I figured Lilla was spirit because of her prementions. But I guess if Agatha is the leader she would be spirit and Lilia would be air. And Wanda's the Avatar. Lol

Does that make Teen the familar? From the line familar by my side. I didn't see Teen bring Senor Scratchy with him. Although Agatha'a familar being a big fluffy bunny would point toward her being a spirt witch. Since in some folklore Rabbits have ties to the spiritual world.

I also suppose in the MCU there are 6 witch elements. Earth, air, fire, water, spirit and scarlet.  

Edited September 29 by Sakura12

[lovett1979]

10 hours ago, tired and hungry said:

It feels like everyone is going to survive and get a happy ending

I don't know about that. I mean, Sharon/Mrs Hart already died. I have a feeling one person will die from each house/trial.

[Morrigan2575]

37 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

I don't know about that. I mean, Sharon/Mrs Hart already died. I have a feeling one person will die from each house/trial.

Yeah, i think only Agatha, Teen and Rio have enough plot armor to survive the rest are Rwd Shirts...which is a shame because I really like the supporting cast

[arc]

Ok, I went back and looked at the start of the ballad in ep 2. Agatha clearly points out which witch is which element:

Alice: fire

Jen: water

Sharon: earth (this is the one where Agatha doesn't actually point at her, but she does look at her, as she did with each other witch. This might be because Sharon was the least witchy of the witches in this makeshift coven.)

Lilia: air

Also, what's the deal with Alice? Last ep, they made it seem like she was barely aware of witchery, having some sort of trauma from her mom's disappearance early in her life. But in this episode, she knew what a sigil was, which is more knowledge than Teen has. And the first thing she does once she notices everyone's clothes have changed is check on her amulets. Between those and her protection tattoo, she's probably loaded with magical protections. (also, Agatha called her the protection witch.)

[tennisgurl]

I am still really liking this show, its fun and twisty and just spooky enough for the Halloween season without being too scary so far. Its also great to have another MCU show that we can have fun speculating about, even if we all nail it or all end up completely wrong. 

The theory that Teen is Agatha's son is so obvious that even the characters seem to be buying it, Jennifer at least seems to suspect that Teen is Agatha's son considering the obvious "she wouldn't recognize him if he showed up on her doorstep" comment, and I wonder if maybe even Agatha suspects some connection with him. Pulling the poison away from him and drinking it herself doesn't seem like typical Agatha behavior from what we've seen, does she wonder if he might be her son? Or is she just projecting some lost maternal feelings onto him? I really want to know about her deal regarding her son and the Darkhold, her nightmare and her lost son in the fake crime show she was on makes me wonder if its remorse, or if she even meant to trade her son in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if she made a deal with a demon (like Mephisto?) and used some tricky language to take her son away?

I really enjoyed the Big Little Fire Lies show that everyone wandered into, I would be happy if The Road kept taking the witches to different genres, its a fun way to keep up the genre shifting from WandaVision that was so much fun. 

The trauma flashbacks were interesting, it looks like Jennifer might have been flashing back to a time where her powers were bound, possibly around the late 1800's or early 1900's, which would line up with her losing her powers around 100 years ago. Just how old is Lilia? Those flashbacks look like they came from the Renaissance, did she see something like a plague coming, try to warn people, and then get blamed for it? 

Poor Sharon, hopefully its a false alarm and its just a trick of The Road. 

[Sakura12]

I think Lilia's the oldest, from 1500's Sicily.  While Agatha's from the late 1600's. Jen's from the early 1900's and Alice is the youngest being her normal age.

They never said Alice doesn't know witchcraft, being the child of a witch she was probably taught magic at a young age. Then when her mother disappeared she probably stopped using magic and tried to live normally. In the comics Alice was a cop that used her magic to solve crimes.

When Agatha was trying to get them to attack her, Alice's fist started turning orange. So she has her power, she's just probably a little rusty with them. The rest are trying to get their powers back, while she's just looking for her mother. 

[Bruinsfan]

I'm not really clear on what exactly Lilia is trying to get back. She's definitely psychic, able to extend her life for hundreds of years, and we saw energy crackling around her hand when Agatha was antagonizing her after singing the ballad. She doesn't seem the type who'd want that amped up into vast, world-famous power. She's in dire financial straits, but it seems too... pedestrian? to attempt a legendary, deadly supernatural quest just to ask for cash.

[Night Cheese]

On 9/29/2024 at 7:31 AM, Sakura12 said:

Does that make Teen the familar? From the line familar by my side.

I may be misremembering, but I think she referred to him as her familiar in episode 2. Maybe when she dropped the ruse at Lilia's? I thought she was being glib, but maybe she was sincerely acknowledging that he's her familiar.

[arc]

Now that this episode introduced the changing aspect ratios trick that Wandavision had, I'm retroactively miffed that "Agnes of Westview" back in ep 1 wasn't in 16:9.