Barbara Kean: What is She Hiding?

[Trini]

Barbara Kean played by Erin Richards.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdgo6HDM0Qw

 

[darkestboy]

I'm not sure but after months of knowing so little about her character, I'm intrigued now.

[MarkHB]

I saw Erin Richards in the second season of Breaking In and liked her there (in a role designed to be comic-unlikable, mostly). I'm hoping this goes well for her.

 

I saw some stills from the series yesterday, and noticed something that I also see here: her apartment.... in the clock tower.  I wonder if their daughter Barbara will live in the same apartment years from now....

[darkestboy]

I remember her mainly from the third series of the UK version of Being Human. She also appeared in some episodes of Merlin and Misfits as well. Looking forward to her take on Barbara Kean and her past with Renee as well come to think of it.

[MarkHB]

One line that popped out at me in this video: Jim saying, "when people lose all hope, that's when you get vigilantes." Could he be Dramatically Foreshadowing something?????

[hoosier80]

I am thinking that Barbara's secret is that she is really Falcone's daughter; she either made up her last name or it's her mother's maiden name.  

[areca]

Isn't Barbara supposed to be Commissioner Gordon's daughter and she becomes Batgirl? Not his wife?

[The Crazed Spruce]

Isn't Barbara supposed to be Commissioner Gordon's daughter and she becomes Batgirl? Not his wife?

In the comics,

James Gordon's first wife (and future Batgirl Barbara Gordon's mother) was also named Barbara

.

[Pippin]

I think she's bi and had an affair with Lt. Whats-her-name.

[BK1978]

I remember her mainly from the third series of the UK version of Being Human. She also appeared in some episodes of Merlin and Misfits as well. Looking forward to her take on Barbara Kean and her past with Renee as well come to think of it.

 

I don't remember her from Being Human at all. Which is odd because I loved the UK version of the show (Well I actually loved both the American and UK versions of the show), but I am drawing a blank when it comes to her.  I even looked her up on Wikipedia and I still do not remember her character on there. 

[darkestboy]

Her character was a detective called Nancy at the end of Series 3 who ended up being killed by Herrick.

 

As for Barbara, I like the theory of her being Falcone's daughter. Whether or not the show will go there, I've no idea.

[Turkish]

Her character was a detective called Nancy at the end of Series 3 who ended up being killed by Herrick.

 

As for Barbara, I like the theory of her being Falcone's daughter. Whether or not the show will go there, I've no idea.

 

Oh yeah. Now I remember her. That was when Herrick was resurrected and didn't remember he was a vampire before eventually succumbing to his old ways. Poor Nancy. She never had a chance. 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Lisin

[kellinatorjones]

Her call to the newspaper clinched it -- Barbara is the only character I give a shit about. 

[darkestboy]

She made a good call there, the right one.

[Rahul]

Barbara Kean: What is She Hiding?

 

 

That she likes the taste of fish more than Penguin does?

Edited October 2, 2014 by Rahul

[Trini]

Well, I hope that apartment set isn't going to be the only place we see Barb.

So she's hiding a drug habit and a lesbian relationship. I do like that she's Jim's sounding board; I hope she gets more to do eventually.

[darkestboy]

She needs to get out of that apartment.

 

At least this episode did give her more to do though.

[Actionmage]

Barbara's supposed to be running an art gallery, either simply photographs  or a mix of traditional art. We only saw photos in the pilot, when Renee first came over to check on Barbara and baselessly accuse Jim of a felony.

 

It would be nice to see Barbara maybe hold an exhibit and Falcone, Maroni, and Fish show up as patrons of the arts. Seeing how Barbara is also navigating between honest art dealer and dealing with crime in her business ( and maybe a bit of background of the lady as well) could be interesting. Jim "socializing"  could also have great tension.   

 

I don't know why Barbara won't just ask Jim to be more honest. We know he's trying to protect her or thinks that she doesn't need to know. Yet, the direct threat to her life if Jim didn't kill Oswald pretty much makes it her problem too. I have seen too many shows where nobly intended info withholding leads to the dire situation happening.  Jim is dealing with people that feel okay with killing innocents to drive home a point. Barbara needs to know! (And a peephole for her front door!)

[Traveller519]

I like that they've shown Barbara as someone with her own personality and not just "concerned Detective's Wife" which she's been reduced to in many roles. She's glamorous and ambitious, though she does need to get out of the apartment. 

 

Interesting look too. A  younger Missi Pyle.

[Xantar]

Does Barbara own any pants? She certainly doesn't seem to have much interest in wearing them.

[Kromm]

I agree with the topic title.  The future

mother of Batgirl

is hiding a ton.  Certainly that her ex-girlfriend is another cop, but a lot more too.

 

Of course, even knowing she's

mother to the future Batgirl

(frankly, with all the possible reinvention this is one thing they are NOT going to change--

Barbara's Clocktower apartment is about as clear a sign as you can get

) doesn't mean she winds up with Jim by the end of this series.  

Different versions of the comics already give multiple possible routes for Barbara Kean and Jim Gordon's relationship to go--Jim having a brother somewhere who might land Barbara and have a kid is always a possibility, since that was Batgirl's parentage for one big interpretation of her.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Kromm

[Camera One]

I don't know why Barbara won't just ask Jim to be more honest. We know he's trying to protect her or thinks that she doesn't need to know. Yet, the direct threat to her life if Jim didn't kill Oswald pretty much makes it her problem too. I have seen too many shows where nobly intended info withholding leads to the dire situation happening.  Jim is dealing with people that feel okay with killing innocents to drive home a point. Barbara needs to know! (And a peephole for her front door!)

 

After he told her something and she called the newspaper, maybe he was afraid she would go and try to do the "right thing".

[DigitalCount]

After this most recent episode, I'm inclined to agree that these are the things they are both worried about. I think it was a wise choice to have her try to get the truth out of Jim, but of course there was no way he was going to tell her a thing right then, in the station, with councilmen dropping left and right. Although she probably should have known better, considering the fact that both Jim and Renee have told her that there are many dirty cops in Gotham.

[Actionmage]

then Barbra begins asking him whether or not he did those things

 

(eta: bringing this over from the "Arkham" episode thread)

See, that's the thing- for me. Barbara hasn't asked him in a straight-up manner about any of the crap Renee has been laying at Gordon's feet.

The only question, of a sort, was "Tell me about Oswald Cobblepot." Which isn't so much a question, but a demand. Barbara has seemed to think she believed in Jim after the first accusation by Montoya. After Montoya leaves, she sidles into a discussion where Jim deduces that Montoya and/or Allen has been spreading lies about him.  Jim's pissed, understandably.  Then Barbara seemed to take Jim's monologue about how the city is corrupt and is bringin' him down as proof that he's still whatever "good" means to Barbara. "Peter" shows up, Jim is tense around this "work friend", and is all abrupt and tense for the next few days.

For me, I wonder what prompted, exactly, the ' me or the job' ultimatum. Especially since she knows she has a drug history and that could blow up horribly for Jim, her fiancé/ now possibly ex-fiancé. Due to Barbara's Void of Characterization, we aren't sure if it's just pique because she's used to being in the loop of stuff (being a gallery owner), a sense of entitlement, a bad trope raising it's head ( the nagging, shrewish spouse--male or female--who doesn't like the very things that their beloved's job require), if because of her history she's deflecting onto Jim's problems so he won't notice she's not being truthful about her issues, or if Montoya's accusation are truly haunting her.  Barbara's "reasons" of odd hours, late shifts and whatever aren't unique to Jim, so she came off as false to me.

 

I'd like to see Barbara actually at her place of business. It would be a logical place to see her in next; working long hours herself to not think about Jim and/or Renee. Somewhere besides the apartment and police station. There is a whole city for her to exist in. Even trying to score something to calm her nerves or whatever. An episode with Barbara's background would be appreciated. Not the entire episode, but like the Arrow or Once Upon A Time flashbacks, seeded throughout the episode.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Actionmage

[jhlipton]

"Why don't you tell me things?"
"Last time you did, you betrayed my trust and blabbed.  I can't trust you!"

[darkestboy]

Barbara Kean/Kate Kane comparisons ... http://www.bustle.com/articles/44836-could-barbara-kean-become-batwoman-on-gotham-her-mysterious-role-raises-some-interesting-theories

 

Have to admit, it would do her character the world of good if some of these theories came to fruition.

[Actionmage]

Barbara Kean/Kate Kane comparisons ...

 

Interesting! I would not poo-poo that development, if done correctly. 

[NorthstarATL]

So Batwoman would become Batgirl's mother? Yikes! Then, again, Kate's relation was the original Batwoman, and her cousin the original Bat-Girl, so it wouldn't be that far afield from the comics. My guess is her secret is that she cheated on her SATs.

[darkestboy]

Barbara definitely needs something to make her stand out now.

[immortalfrieza]

 

She's in danger because she's his girlfriend. Okay, I got it. But a girlfriend who knows something and who people know or suspects knows something is more in danger than a girlfriend who's clueless and everyone knows or suspects is clueless. And that's what Jim keeps mum: the less Barbara knows the safer she'll be and the safer he'll be because she won't go blabbing to Montoya or Harvey or whoever. Loose lips sink ships and she's demonstrated she can't keep her trap shut when she picked up the phone and called the press a couple episodes back.

See, I hate when characters keep other characters in the dark to "protect" them when it always ends up that they put them in greater danger than they otherwise would be, or they end up getting kidnapped and in danger constantly anyway so it doesn't end up making a difference. As his girlfriend Barbara will be in danger no matter what if somebody decides to go after Gordon, so keeping her ignorant will not only strain their relationship but keep her from being able to be on guard and recognize threats to herself without Jim around. Besides, if they try and drill her for information there isn't anything she would be able to tell anyone that they probably wouldn't already know even if Jim told her everything.

 

How is Gordon not telling Barbara most everything put her in any more danger than she would be in if he didn't?

[Kromm]

Barbara definitely needs something to make her stand out now.

Well, she could always die, and thus inspire Gordon's passion to clean up Gotham (clearly with mixed success, since Batman bops along eventually anyway).

I'm not simply being snarky. Clearly that's one of the major possible routes with her.

It sucks that if they go this way she'd kind of be the typical "Woman in refrigerator" (Google it, folks), but to be fair

that being one of her possible fates pre-dates that term by decades anyway.

[Danielg342]

I have a problem with Barbara Kean's characterization. Since the show never places her outside of her apartment (unless it's to deal with James Gordon, and only once has she had a scene that wasn't with Gordon), she's got no agency in the story except as an extension of Gordon, whereas Gordon has several different friends and a definable “life” seperate from Kean. The show is trying to balance it by making Kean strong and confident and never giving Gordon a pass, but it rings hollow to me, since her presence is only validated by Gordon's. It seems so clear to me that by making the character “need” Gordon that eventually she'll have to be saved by him, and I can only roll my eyes at the prospect, since it's the tired cliche of the “damsel not realizing she's in distress until it's too late” (Erin Richards does not help by playing Kean to be sultry and vulnerable).

I wouldn't be bothered so much by the story if Kean had some other definable role (at least then you can actually see her strength in action), but since it seems so clear to me that they want to hit me over the head with the inherent vulnerability, I have to call out the show on its blatant misogyny here. It's a blight on an otherwise great show.

[Trini]

Maybe they could have had her be a friend of the family to the Waynes? Or have her show what the "upper crust" society of Gotham is like.

[Danielg342]

Maybe they could have had her be a friend of the family to the Waynes? Or have her show what the "upper crust" society of Gotham is like.

 

Maybe. At the very least, she could have been the "civilian Gordon" and been the good citizen that lobbies and tries to do things the right way only to see the city get in her way all the time. Would give the show the opportunity to see another side of the city and give it more layers than just "the criminal underworld".

[Chicago Redshirt]

To be fair to the show, we've also seen to a certain extent the city's government and its well-to-do, both in the context of Wayne Enterprises/Wellsyn and in their own element. The criminal element is of course interacting with both these, but that's Gotham. 

[Danielg342]

To be fair to the show, we've also seen to a certain extent the city's government and its well-to-do, both in the context of Wayne Enterprises/Wellsyn and in their own element. The criminal element is of course interacting with both these, but that's Gotham. 

 

That is true, and corruption should always be the theme of the show. However, the Mayor gets very little to do and I think if we saw the inner workings on the council, we can see just how deep the corruption runs. Kean could be council herself, trying valiantly to overrule the voices of councilors who are too willing or afraid to bend to the needs of Maroni or Falcone, without having much success.

[Actionmage]

Kean could be council herself, trying valiantly to overrule the voices of councilors who are too willing or afraid to bend to the needs of Maroni or Falcone, without having much success.

 

Barbara owns an art gallery, a venue that lends itself to corruption stories. Not showing Barbara in her actual work environment- growing the city and story possibilities and  the mix of characters interacting- is a disservice to Barbara and to us in the audience.  Maybe they are trying to establish just how powder-keggy the Families are?

[atua]

This week's episode (Spirit of the Goat) provided a perfect entry point for Barbara to appear outside of the apartment, and flesh out both her character and Gotham's upper crust. Isn't her family a part of the elite? Even if her family isn't quite in the 1% bracket, her job as a gallery owner should've given her plenty of opportunities to hob nob with the rich and famous. What a wasted opportunity. It's clear the writers have no idea what to do with the character, and that she's just a prop for Gordon.

Edited October 31, 2014 by atua

[Camera One]

As others have suggested in the episode threads, I wish they gave her a career which would have allowed a glimpse into corruption in other areas, for example, either working at city hall, working for one of the city Councillors, a lawyer for the legal system, or as a lobby group/activist.  I suppose an art gallery could be a venue for events with prominent city officials and business people, but that would still make Barbara a bystander instead of someone who could be taking action.  With Gordon, we have the police corruption taken care of, and with Bruce/Alfred, the corporate corruption.  

[Danielg342]

Has the show actually established that she owns a gallery? I don't recalll that line anywhere so far.

Even so, owning a gallery still wouldn't stop her from being a volunteer at city events, organizing them herself, being friends with councilors, being a consultant at City Hall, being Gotham's leading activist, etc. Just because she doesn't have the technical authority to influence decisions doesn't mean that she can't.

[darkestboy]

She mentioned in the first episode about the gallery. Would be nice to actually see her in that environment though.

[atua]

As others have suggested in the episode threads, I wish they gave her a career which would have allowed a glimpse into corruption in other areas, for example, either working at city hall, working for one of the city Councillors, a lawyer for the legal system, or as a lobby group/activist.  I suppose an art gallery could be a venue for events with prominent city officials and business people, but that would still make Barbara a bystander instead of someone who could be taking action.  With Gordon, we have the police corruption taken care of, and with Bruce/Alfred, the corporate corruption.  

I think an art gallery owner could work. If Bruce is the viewers entry point to business people in a corporate setting, Barbara can be in a social setting. Bruce is just too young to be a believable fit in social settings with the chardonnay set. The art gallery could be venue for charities or political fundraisers.

[Danielg342]

I think an art gallery owner could work. If Bruce is the viewers entry point to business people in a corporate setting, Barbara can be in a social setting. Bruce is just too young to be a believable fit in social settings with the chardonnay set. The art gallery could be venue for charities or political fundraisers.

 

Yeah. Her parties could have the reputation of being the place where "all the deals go down", thus allowing her to influence them herself.

[darkestboy]

I think an art gallery owner could work. If Bruce is the viewers entry point to business people in a corporate setting, Barbara can be in a social setting. Bruce is just too young to be a believable fit in social settings with the chardonnay set. The art gallery could be venue for charities or political fundraisers.

That would be a perfect thing for the show to do with Barbara.

[Camera One]

Yeah. Her parties could have the reputation of being the place where "all the deals go down", thus allowing her to influence them herself.

 

I hope this is the reason why they made her own an art gallery. The only problem is if Barbara was always on the up-and-up, then the corrupt crowd wouldn't patronize her art gallery.  They could go to the galleries which make under-the-table deals and maybe act as a front for smuggling of paintings.   

 

I suppose she could take over a popular art gallery, and then find out all the corruption.  But still, the corrupt people could just threaten to leave and not give her any business if she tries to influence them.

[atua]

The only problem is if Barbara was always on the up-and-up, then the corrupt crowd wouldn't patronize her art gallery.  They could go to the galleries which make under-the-table deals and maybe act as a front for smuggling of paintings.   

If her background as a former drug addict is anything to go by, it's a good bet she wasn't always on the up-and-up. A history as a fence for stolen/counterfeit art might even tie in with Selina/Cat at some point. There're a lot of good stories that could be mined from her art gallery owner role. Unfortunately, I'm not that confident the show's writers will expand her role beyond "Gordon's fiancee", if the writing thus far is anything to go by...

Edited November 1, 2014 by atua

[Camera One]

This is definitely true.  Though on the whole, we are supposed to think Barbara is a moral and a good person; thus, her inclination to call the newspaper with the tip immediately.  There are the ingredients to create a good story and a more complex character for sure.  I guess we'll see in the future whether there was actually a purpose for making her an art gallery owner.

[Danielg342]

I hope this is the reason why they made her own an art gallery. The only problem is if Barbara was always on the up-and-up, then the corrupt crowd wouldn't patronize her art gallery.  They could go to the galleries which make under-the-table deals and maybe act as a front for smuggling of paintings.   

 

I suppose she could take over a popular art gallery, and then find out all the corruption.  But still, the corrupt people could just threaten to leave and not give her any business if she tries to influence them.

 

I see it as something more along the lines of when Gordon had to "kill" Oswald- sometimes, Kean would have to accept certain deals and transactions that, while illegal, would at least maintain order in Gotham. What if the deal to divide Arkham between Falcone and Maroni happened at her gallery with her influence? I could buy that.

[Camera One]

I think that would be a good idea, to have Barbara also conflicted in having to work within the system of corruption, doing deals, etc.  Though it's hard for me to imagine how an art gallery owner would have any influence in terms of whether Falcone or Maroni got what part of a deal.  It could happen in her gallery, but she would just be an observer.  I suppose she could be an informant, and provide Bruce or Alfred with info based on what she sees.  Though anyone of importance would know her fiancé was the boy scout cop.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Camera One

[Actionmage]

The only thing I missed seeing in tonight's episode was Barbara and Jim promising to act as a unit/team. That way, less assassins getting one or the other o them, but I can be patient. I can't totally blame her, as she wants to be pro-active and helpful. That's a good quality. Barbara just doesn't seem to know how to do so. That lads to...

 

Falcon said Barbara ran straight to him. This gives those of us with theories about her past a little more to chew on. Yes, Falcone is a respected businessman in general, feared mobster to others. His mansion is probably known, if one has a mind to find out. Still, why run to Falcone?  I am not remembering his name coming up in Jim's discussions, but I could be forgetting.

 

As far as honesty between the pair, I want to see Barbara's face hearing that Harvey and The Duchess played Marco Polo in her bedroom!