S02.E07: The Red Sowing

[AimingforYoko]

Quote

As Rhaenyra looks to gain an advantage by unusual means, Daemon pressures a young liege lord to raise up his bannermen.

What a coincidence, the two commoners we met earlier in the season happened to have the golden tickets. Two out of a hundred...better odds than the lottery. The Dragon Maesters knew what was up and got out of dodge. 

I don't understand why Corlys just doesn't tell Rhaenyra who Adam is. It's not like she's going to make a proclamation about it.

This has been sort of a wasted season for Daemon, I hope they have something better planned for him next season.

[AntFTW]

The dragons had some real "fuck around if you want to" energy in the beginning.

[bluvelvet]

lol Vermithor had a good snack. He was like “Thank you your Grace”…How many people did he kill and eat. 
 

I really wish they would delve into the Dragon bond because it seemed to me that Rhaenyra was communicating with Vermithor. 
 

Ulf and his dragon had me laughing. He’s like “Please don’t eat me” and she’s like “hello”… 

Loved the ending scene with Aemond turning back with Vhagar and Rhaenyra with her new dragons. 
 

Soo are we allowed to discuss previews ??

The Targaryen men were quite busy I see. 

Edited July 29 by bluvelvet

[SeanC]

Vermithor got a sweet buffet lunch and a new rider, what a fantastic day for him.

Great episode.

Minor detail that I liked: Aemond's management style has people afraid to bring him information, and thus he misses out on crucial intelligence until it's too late. That's the sort of detail that GRRM himself would use to show the pitfalls of villainy, and something that D&D seldom if ever got across in GOT.

Edited July 29 by SeanC

[CherryMalotte]

Vermithor to Hugh - rubmynoserubmynoserubmynoserubmynose.... 

[peridot]

I loved the scenes with Lord Tully.  I kept laughing at his contempt of Daemon.

I feel bad for Jacaerys.  Rhaenyra really screwed up her kids by having them outside her marriage and with someone with the wrong features. 

The dragon keepers worries seemed apt, especially since we know the dragons are all gone at the beginning of Game of Thrones. 

I felt bad for all those people who answered Rhaenyra's call and ended up roasted for it.  I couldn't believe the guards tried to stop them from leaving. 

When Vermithor first appeared, he looked like a demon.  They really amped up the horror feeling around dragons. 

I wondered why Aemond turned Vhagar around at the end.  How did he see the dragons, though?  He looked very far away from Dragonstone.

 

[bluvelvet]

You just know Syrax and Seasmoke were talking lol. I really enjoyed this episode because it had more dragons. Also loved how they each sounded different. 

Syrax: Yo Seasmoke, whattup. It’s been a minute 

Seasmoke : I had some things to do 

Syrax: Who dis? You can’t just claim random humans ?

Seasmoke: naah man, they were trying to slap some rando on me, Sy. I had to go find mine. This one smells like Laenor 

Syrax : well, are you with us or against us?

Seasmoke : naah we good. See he’s kneeling 

Syrax: whew thank you. Would’ve been real awkward in the dragon pit if we had to throw some hands/wings?

Edited July 29 by bluvelvet

[Johnny Dollar]

Did anyone else think that Ulf was defecting at the end?

So, did Rhaena find the wild dragon?

Jace needs to shut the fuck up and listen to his mother. Sorry that you’re not so special after all.

Oscar Tully for baddest badass of them all. 

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, peridot said:

I wondered why Aemond turned Vhagar around at the end. 

I would imagine he realized that it was possibly an ambush.

[AimingforYoko]

1 minute ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Oscar Tully for baddest badass of them all. 

Reminded me a bit of the late, great Lady Mormont.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, these are some picky fucking dragons, huh?  And if you don't live up to their standards or what they want, you really get burnt or eaten!  I know Rhaenyra warned them all going in, but that still was some "Some of you will die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make!" leadership skills right there! 

Not surprised though that the two common folk guys we've been spending so much time with end up being the riders.  Interesting on how each dragon picked them for different reasons.  Vermithor seem to respect Hugh putting himself in harms way to save others and be all "Come at me, dragon bro!", and deemed him worthy.  Meanwhile, Ulf... just kind of stumbled into it, and Silvering was like "Aww, your cute!  I'm going to keep you!"  I guess it's better than nothing, but we'll see how good of allies they will be.  In particular, Ulf worries me.  I don't think he'll go all Team Green or anything, but he strikes me as someone who might try and do his own thing, and cause headaches for everyone involved.  This should be fun!

Jace certainly displayed some elitist "Fuck the poor people!" opinions out of nowhere!  But it seems to be coming from a place of his insecurities over being a bastard himself, and worrying that those might challenge him if any one with a little Targaryen blood can ride the Dragon Ride.  I guess it's an understandable concern, but... well, considering how Aemond's just been wrecking everyone left and right with Vhagar, maybe deal with this major present issue before you start worrying about all of that, buddy.  Just a thought.

Just when one would think Daemon's street cred couldn't get any lower, fucking Oscar Tully just puts him in his place.  Yeah, he's still going to honor his grandfather's wishes/alliance with Rhaenyra, but he makes damn sure Daemon dishes out the justice for his war crimes... err, I mean "overenthusiastic" approach to negotiation tactics.  And Daemon actually falls in line... for now.  At least he gets another nice conversation with... Hallucination Viserys.  Yeah, dude needs to get out of Harrenhal fast: for numerous reasons.

Aegon still looks like shit and is clearly not in a good place, but it seems like Larys and the Maester are planning something with him?

Alicent basically says "Screw this!" and spends this entire episode camping and swimming in the lake.  You know what?  This might be the most relatable she's ever been in quite some time!

Guessing Rhaena is going after that wild dragon.  Risky, but if she pulls it off, it could really be a huge game changer.

Addam having the courtesy to inform Corlys that he is resigning from the fleet due to the whole "being a dragon rider" thing: now, there's a man who always puts in his two week notice!

I'm choosing to believe that Otto's delay getting to King's Landing is also due to him deliberately taking the scenic route back.  Man is going to make them all wait!

Episode ends with more dragons and seeing Aemond finally looking like he doesn't have all of the answers for once.  Certainly a way to get me excited for the finale!

[magdalene]

19 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

This has been sort of a wasted season for Daemon, I hope they have something better planned for him next season.

I disagree. Intense therapy can be very helpful to people even those who don't think they have any use for it.  I think Daemon has learned a few things about himself - none of them probably flattering  - which can only be good for him.  I think he has learned what he doesn't want.

Silverwing has fallen for a conman bit of rough - oh well it happens to the best of us.

My, my, my , Aemond got taken down a peg or two there at the end. I enjoyed that.

 

[KristenR]

4 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Alicent basically says "Screw this!" and spends this entire episode camping and swimming in the lake.  You know what?  This might be the most relatable she's ever been in quite some time!

When she was floating in the lake and looking up, I thought that she was going to be the one to discover there were new dragon riders. But no. Turns out her story was she just needed a spa day?

[SeanC]

This would have been out of place, but I was half-expecting the sequence with Ulf flying over King's Landing to include a shot of his tavern buddies cheering him on from the ground.

Just now, KristenR said:

When she was floating in the lake and looking up, I thought that she was going to be the one to discover there were new dragon riders. But no. Turns out her story was she just needed a spa day?

She and Gwayne commiserated about getting away from the Red Keep last episode, I assume that was her motivation.

[Starchild]

8 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

In particular, Ulf worries me.  I don't think he'll go all Team Green or anything, but he strikes me as someone who might try and do his own thing, and cause headaches for everyone involved.

Yeah Ulf seems like a generally good guy, but one who could let this go to his head, and he starts acting like an ass.

But the one to really be worried about is Adam. He's wants his birthright and he seems like he could be persuaded to turn against Rhaenyra with a little money and glory. Not Bronn exactly, but...

Hugh seems very honourable. Vermithor chose well, I think.

[AntFTW]

Maester magic works well for Aegon. He's healing fast.

How I understand Jace's temper tantrum, since a person who is not of Targaryen descent can claim a dragon, that gives more reason for people to doubt Jace's legitimacy or raise questions of his bastardy. Jace could, at the very least, claim Targaryen heritage because he's a dragonrider - something that, up to until now, has been exclusive to Targaryens. Now, that can fuel rumors that no only is he a bastard, he may not even be a Targaryen. At least, that's how I read it.

Hugh's mother was a Targaryen bastard? Didn't see that coming.

Damn, Mysaria is efficient. I'd rather have her than Larys.

How many episodes we have left? For a war, there hasn't been much warring.

I'm curious. When was the last time Vermithor ate?

What dragon was that toward the end that Ulf was riding? Have we seen that dragon before?

Edited July 29 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

37 minutes ago, peridot said:

I loved the scenes with Lord Tully.  I kept laughing at his contempt of Daemon.

Same. He just kept cutting Daemon down.

It didn't seem like he was new at exercising power.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm curious. When was the last time Vermithor ate?

 

It's like they just set a big bowl of chips out in front of him. You know now it is. You start eating and they're right there so you just keep going even if you know you're going to order a main course soon.

[The Hound Lives]

36 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

 

Jace needs to shut the fuck up and listen to his mother. Sorry that you’re not so special after all.

I don’t know about that. Thinking about particular King in the North who listened to his Mother until it was too late. 
 

That aside, I like these characters, even the so-called “baddies”, but I have zero connection to any of them. They’re all one-dimensional. I am beginning to think the most interesting thing about the Targaryens is their dragons. Not that this isn’t bad ass but without them, they’re a bore. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

So are we almost at an end for the Harrenhal LSD trip?  I am glad that he did what he had to do to make up for his wartime shenanigans with the Brakens. I knew Daemon had to prove to young Lord Tully and the Riverlords that he was worthy of their swords, and for once I am glad to see him knocked down a peg as he was reminded that he is merely the King...Consort. 

Huh. So for all of Aemond's orders to keep smallfolk in the Red Keep, Alicent and a cadre of Targaryen bastards was able to waltz outside the gates?

Jacerys has fallen a bit in my regard for him. Knowing he is a strong Targaryen (pun unintended. LOL!), he shouldn't feel a way about "lowborns" gaining a dragon.  Addam didn't intend to snatch a "Dragon of House Targaryen", as Rhaenyra stated.  I thought wild and riderless dragons belonged to themselves; I expected her to say "My late husband's dragon", honestly.

Okay, Corlys. Addam has Seasmoke and Alyn has told you that he is Sea and Salt. Time to legitimize your sons!  Will Baela get in introduction to her uncles?

Rhaena, sis. I get that you really want to have your own dragon, but to leave Joffrey, Aegon III(?), and Viserys II to go to Penthos without you? I hope there were others to care for them besides you.

Now, Rhaenyra's cattle call method of finding dragonriders leaves a lot to be desired, but she has gained what she needed.  I figured Hugh would be chosen by Vermithor (after he flambeed nearly everyone else!), because we have seen too much of him for him not to be chosen. I thought Ulf was full of shyt because his hair was steadily getting darker as the season went on. Is he a real Targaryen bastard or has he not washed his hair since Episode 1?  Aww, Silverwing has chosen him; I guess he is legit!

Wait. Silverwing took Ulf to King's Landing? Lawd, that's not the place to be!  Whew, now we see how quickly Aemond can mobilize Vhagar. I'm surprised that she actually obeyed instead of going full steam to Dragonstone.  I wonder if Daemon will take Rhaenyra's calls now that she has gained 3 dragonriders?  "Hey heaux. I got 3 more dragons in play now. ready to come home?" (Written in High Valyrian, of course.)

Edited July 29 by Stardancer Supreme

[AntFTW]

32 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

In particular, Ulf worries me.  I don't think he'll go all Team Green or anything, but he strikes me as someone who might try and do his own thing, and cause headaches for everyone involved.  This should be fun!

If we're supposed to take something from his conversation in the tavern, I'm thinking he's an opportunist. He's probably been milking this Targaryen bastard story for a long time for free liquor (and maybe other perks elsewhere), even if he may have doubted its truth.

Now that he's claimed a dragon, there is no barrier to his loyalty. He can sell himself to the highest bidder.

[AntFTW]

49 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Did anyone else think that Ulf was defecting at the end?

I did.

9 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Wait. Silverwing took Ulf to King's Landing?

I think he probably felt a little invincible, not caring of Vhagar can come out of nowhere and kills them.

1 hour ago, peridot said:

I wondered why Aemond turned Vhagar around at the end.  How did he see the dragons, though?  He looked very far away from Dragonstone.

They want us to believe the characters have bird eye vision. Baela seeing Cristy on the ground from way up high, and now this...

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, peridot said:

I wondered why Aemond turned Vhagar around at the end.  How did he see the dragons, though?  He looked very far away from Dragonstone.

I think it would have been the prevailing thought of "What if this is an ambush?" or wondering if he was being led away from KL for an attack to happen there. Aemond didn't see the other dragons; he saw this rogue dragon heading back to Dragonstone, where all the other dragons are. This is the issue with having the Prince Regent also be the only dragonrider defense for KL.  His youngest brother's dragon has just taken to wing AND they are in Oldtown. KL's only weapon is Vhagar, so it would be like Aegon-level foolishness to get into a scrap with multiple dragons without any backup. 

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

I don't understand why Corlys just doesn't tell Rhaenyra who Adam is. It's not like she's going to make a proclamation about it.

If Rhaenyra didn't already put it together, she will know when it comes time for Corlys to legitimize his bastards.

45 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

How I understand Jace's temper tantrum, since a person who is not of Targaryen descent can claim a dragon, that gives more reason for people to doubt Jace's legitimacy or raise questions of his bastardy. Jace could, at the very least, claim Targaryen heritage because he's a dragonrider - something that, up to until now, has been exclusive to Targaryens. Now, that can fuel rumors that no only is he a bastard, he may not even be a Targaryen. At least, that's how I read it.

Hugh's mother was a Targaryen bastard? Didn't see that coming.

What dragon was that toward the end that Ulf was riding? Have we seen that dragon before?

The thing is, all of the dragonriders have Targaryen heritage. Jacerys claims Targaryen heritage because of his mother. No one questions Rhaenyra as his mother; since patriarchy rules, everyone is too concerned with who his father is, which shouldn't matter since his legal AND biological fathers are now dead. Dragon riding seems to be exclusive to Targaryens still, so I don't get the temper tantrum. Surely he should have related to the bastards a little, considering the fact that he is a bastard himself.

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

Yeah Ulf seems like a generally good guy, but one who could let this go to his head, and he starts acting like an ass.

But the one to really be worried about is Adam. He's wants his birthright and he seems like he could be persuaded to turn against Rhaenyra with a little money and glory. Not Bronn exactly, but...

Hugh seems very honourable. Vermithor chose well, I think.

Now I would worry only about Ulf; I would say he is more Bronn-like than Addam.  Addam only wants validation from his daddy, so he will be content to be a dragonrider for Rhaenyra as long as Corlys acknowledges him.

[bluvelvet]

I thought that Rhaenyra sent Ulf to Kings Landing to draw out Aemond to give him a glimpse of the two new dragon riders.  I assume that she wasn't planning a battle since Ulf/Hugh have no experience and don't speak Valyrian.

 

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

 

How I understand Jace's temper tantrum, since a person who is not of Targaryen descent can claim a dragon, that gives more reason for people to doubt Jace's legitimacy or raise questions of his bastardy. Jace could, at the very least, claim Targaryen heritage because he's a dragonrider - something that, up to until now, has been exclusive to Targaryens. Now, that can fuel rumors that no only is he a bastard, he may not even be a Targaryen. At least, that's how I read it.

I'm curious. When was the last time Vermithor ate?

 

Jacerys is Targaryen through Rhaenyra so no one can claim he isn't Targaryen.  He was referring to her taking away his identity as a dragon rider .  Before this, he could always maintain his supremacy because he had a dragon even though he doesn't have the features.  Dragons gave them a right to the throne, however now any silver haired  Targaryen bastard can challenge that if they also claim a dragon.  So based on prior episodes, Ulf is Daemon's bastard brother and based on today Hugh is  Daemon's nephew or is Hugh also his brother?  Hugh's father may also be Targaryen, we know they have no issues sleeping with family.

Also Corly's just needs to fess up.  Corlys mentioned that they are not dragon riders but his family has intermarried with Targaryens for generations so not surprising that his son with a non Valyrian can ride a dragon.  Also to my understanding there were other families in old Valyria that were also dragon riders who died in the doom.  So dragon riding wasn't exclusive to Targaryens, it just so happens that they are the only Valyrian dragon riding family still alive.

I do think the Dragons smell the blood, Silverwing was definitely sniffing Ulf and Vermithor was eyeing Hugh (I noted this on rewatch) before he started chomping down. He also sniffed Hugh.

The first guy that tried with Vermithor had some odd features, frankly I am surprised more Targaryens aren't like this given all the incest.

Loved hearing all the high Valyrian this episode.

Edited July 29 by bluvelvet

[Stardancer Supreme]

3 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

I thought that Rhaenyra sent Ulf to Kings Landing to draw out Aemond to give him a glimpse of the two new dragon riders.  I assume that she wasn't planning a battle since Ulf/Hugh have no experience and don't speak Valyrian.

No, Rhaenyra didn't sanction that excursion. I think Silverwing was so excited to have a rider again that she got way too close to what is now enemy territory. Ulf was along for the ride.

[Oscirus]

People were calling Aemond foolish for making a deal with pirates to break the blockade; Rhaenyra is trusting legit strangers with nuclear weapons, that's worse. 

Also, Jace is right, just not in the way he thinks. Much like parading that dragon's head through the streets, having bastards riding dragons kinda removes the aura of the targs riding them. 

Yes, I know I was advocating for Rhae to use those dragons well, but Jace made me think about it. 

Edited July 29 by Oscirus

[bluvelvet]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

People were calling Aemond foolish for making a deal with pirates to break the blockade; Rhaenyra is trusting legit strangers with nuclear weapons, that's worse. 

Also, Jace is right, just not in the way he thinks. Much like parading that dragon's head through the streets, having bastards riding dragons kinda removes the aura of the targs riding them. 

Yes,, I know I was advocating for Rhae to use those dragons well, but Jace made me think about it. 

The people riding them are also Targs just bastard Targs. It does remove the aura that only highborn Targs can ride a dragon. 
 

How could I forget, major shout out to Oscar this episode. So far he’s shaping up to be a fine Lord, young as he is. If he was born in the future, he and young Lady Mormont would make a power couple.  I still find it fascinating that  in this universe children can become heads of household.

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Jacerys is Targaryen through Rhaenyra so no one can claim he isn't Targaryen.

Sure, but perception is reality. The perception could change.

 

4 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

He was referring to her taking away his identity as a dragon rider .  Before this, he could always maintain his supremacy because he had a dragon even though he doesn't have the features.  Dragons gave them a right to the throne, however now any silver haired  Targaryen bastard can challenge that if they also claim a dragon.  So based on prior episodes, Ulf is Daemon's bastard brother and based on today Hugh is  Daemon's nephew or is Hugh also his brother?  Hugh's father may also be Targaryen, we know they have no issues sleeping with family.

I had the same thought in addition to what I wrote previously. I didn't quite know how to word it.

The distinction I make between this point and my previous one is that this is before all the alleged Targaryen bastards were called to Dragonstone. This was about Addam's ability to claim a dragon, and as far as we knew, he had/has no Targaryen lineage. That's what made me think Jace's rant was about something other than alleged Targaryen bastards challenging his claim to the throne and this was about something beyond Targaryens.

14 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

The thing is, all of the dragonriders have Targaryen heritage. Jacerys claims Targaryen heritage because of his mother. No one questions Rhaenyra as his mother; since patriarchy rules, everyone is too concerned with who his father is, which shouldn't matter since his legal AND biological fathers are now dead. Dragon riding seems to be exclusive to Targaryens still, so I don't get the temper tantrum. Surely he should have related to the bastards a little, considering the fact that he is a bastard himself.

 

[paigow]

This episode of Sesame Street was brought to you by the Letter F, the Letter U and the Number 100

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, paigow said:

This episode of Sesame Street was brought to you by the Letter F, the Letter U and the Number 100

I hope there there's a Count Tully.

[bluvelvet]

That council dude who was talking to Larys was like - my sister‘s cousin’s husbands next door neighbors’ neighbor friends mother said that there’s a new rider. 😆 

Edited July 29 by bluvelvet
Spelling

[Stardancer Supreme]

4 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

The distinction I make between this point and my previous one is that this is before all the alleged Targaryen bastards were called to Dragonstone. This was about Addam's ability to claim a dragon, and as far as we knew, he had/has no Targaryen lineage. That's what made me think Jace's rant was about something other than alleged Targaryen bastards challenging his claim to the throne and this was about something beyond Targaryens.

Yeah, I didn't want to bring modern sensibilites into HotD, but it was telling that the other Council members assumed that Addam "stole" Seasmoke and proceeded to talk much trash until Rhaenyra stated that he was to be treated as a guest and allowed to learn High Valyrian and be trained to be a dragon rider.  You would think that Jacerys would have related to Addam as another dark haired dragon rider, but I guess the dark skin lowborn status must have been too much for him even though Corlys and Baela are right there... I wonder if there is a scene between Jacerys and Addam on the cutting room floor?

[paigow]

If the chain of whispering ended at fishing boat captain, then the Seasmoke Intel would have been more credible.

[paigow]

Jace needs a refresher session with the biology Maester... Mongrel vs Inbred pros & cons. 

[AnimeMania]

[MJ Frog]

Wow. THAT was a look, Rhaenyra.

For all the pissing and moaning about who should or shouldn't have a dragon, do these people not realize the matter was never in their hands to begin with? The dragons choose who their riders are. They always have. Any notion of control is an illusion.

Edited July 29 by MJ Frog
Fancier word choice.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

I would imagine he realized that it was possibly an ambush.

That would be a poorly designed ambush. They were in plain sight.

Vhagar is humongous and all but I think Aemond knows he couldn’t face (at least) three dragons all at once.

Edited July 29 by AntFTW

[Oscirus]

Aemond saw a dragon that he didn't recognize with a rider flying over King's landing. He wanted to find out who they were/belonged to. The moment he saw them approaching Dragon Stone, he had his question answered. I doubt he knew anything about the three dragons on the ground, with Rhaenyra standing out in the open. Otherwise, he would've ended the war right then and there.

So Rhaena tried to claim Seasmoke at 14? Interesting. There goes the theory about Sea Smoke wanting to get with one of his old rider's relatives. I'm not sure how I feel about her abandoning watching Rhaenyra's kids to go off dragon chasing, but at the moment, it seems selfish.

Jace's problem arises when his legitimacy is called into question, which could ignite a second Dance of the Dragons, especially because the queen has two other heirs who aren't women or illegitimate.

The fact that Hugh is Damon, and Viserys's nephew adds an interesting dynamic. His talk with his wife sets off all kinds of alarm bells. It feels like he's a mercenary and just got the second-biggest dragon in the war. Team Black should keep their eye on him. While I found the meet-cute between Ulf and his dragon charming, I can't say I fully trust him, either. 

This is just a reminder to all the writers that it's okay to exclude Alicent if there's nothing for her in the episode. 

Oscar Tully making Damon his bitch was a chef's kiss. Wonder if that demonstration will come back to bite him in the ass in the future.

So at this point, Larys is just being sneaky, just to be sneaky. There is legit no reason to withhold the news of a new dragon having a rider from Aemond other than to be a dick. As a matter of fact, I would argue that Aemond not having this information hurts him. The second half of his plan where he's working to get Aegon better, is an actual good plan. 

It's problematic for Rhaenyra to rely on Myseria as much as she does.

 

 

 

Edited July 29 by Oscirus

[Roseanna]

 

4 hours ago, peridot said:

I feel bad for Jacaerys.  Rhaenyra really screwed up her kids by having them outside her marriage and with someone with the wrong features. 

 

4 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Jace needs to shut the fuck up and listen to his mother. Sorry that you’re not so special after all.

 

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Jace certainly displayed some elitist "Fuck the poor people!" opinions out of nowhere!  But it seems to be coming from a place of his insecurities over being a bastard himself, and worrying that those might challenge him if any one with a little Targaryen blood can ride the Dragon Ride.  I guess it's an understandable concern, but... well, considering how Aemond's just been wrecking everyone left and right with Vhagar, maybe deal with this major present issue before you start worrying about all of that, buddy.  Just a thought.

 

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

How I understand Jace's temper tantrum, since a person who is not of Targaryen descent can claim a dragon, that gives more reason for people to doubt Jace's legitimacy or raise questions of his bastardy. Jace could, at the very least, claim Targaryen heritage because he's a dragonrider - something that, up to until now, has been exclusive to Targaryens. Now, that can fuel rumors that no only is he a bastard, he may not even be a Targaryen. At least, that's how I read it.

 

3 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Jacerys has fallen a bit in my regard for him. Knowing he is a strong Targaryen (pun unintended. LOL!), he shouldn't feel a way about "lowborns" gaining a dragon.  Addam didn't intend to snatch a "Dragon of House Targaryen", as Rhaenyra stated.  I thought wild and riderless dragons belonged to themselves; I expected her to say "My late husband's dragon", honestly.

 

2 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

The thing is, all of the dragonriders have Targaryen heritage. Jacerys claims Targaryen heritage because of his mother. No one questions Rhaenyra as his mother; since patriarchy rules, everyone is too concerned with who his father is, which shouldn't matter since his legal AND biological fathers are now dead. Dragon riding seems to be exclusive to Targaryens still, so I don't get the temper tantrum. Surely he should have related to the bastards a little, considering the fact that he is a bastard himself.

 

2 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Jacerys is Targaryen through Rhaenyra so no one can claim he isn't Targaryen.  He was referring to her taking away his identity as a dragon rider .  Before this, he could always maintain his supremacy because he had a dragon even though he doesn't have the features.  Dragons gave them a right to the throne, however now any silver haired  Targaryen bastard can challenge that if they also claim a dragon.  So based on prior episodes, Ulf is Daemon's bastard brother and based on today Hugh is  Daemon's nephew or is Hugh also his brother?  Hugh's father may also be Targaryen, we know they have no issues sleeping with family.

 

7 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Jace's problem arises when his legitimacy is called into question, which could ignite a second Dance of the Dragons, especially because the queen has two other heirs who aren't women or illegitimate.

Being "lawfully begotten" was essential in patriarchy, so Jace is IMO right to be worried about people's opinions. Plus, he doubts also himself.  

Also, as Oscirus says, there are his younger brothers who are born in marriage *and* have Targaryan heritage from both parents. Wouldn't Daemon like to see his own son on the throne rather than his step-son? 

Jace is also right that there is a danger to call Targaryan nastards and deliberately give them a chance to become dragonloards. What if some of them begins to think that he has as much to right to the throne as Jace after perhaps proving himself better than he in the battle? But of course Rhaenyra was right: they were in such a danger that there was no other way.  

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Minor detail that I liked: Aemond's management style has people afraid to bring him information, and thus he misses out on crucial intelligence until it's too late. That's the sort of detail that GRRM himself would use to show the pitfalls of villainy, and something that D&D seldom if ever got across in GOT.

I think it was Larys' vengeance to keep information from Aemond.  

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Just when one would think Daemon's street cred couldn't get any lower, fucking Oscar Tully just puts him in his place.  Yeah, he's still going to honor his grandfather's wishes/alliance with Rhaenyra, but he makes damn sure Daemon dishes out the justice for his war crimes... err, I mean "overenthusiastic" approach to negotiation tactics.  And Daemon actually falls in line... for now. 

That.

Daemon simply lacks strategical thinking. His actions backfired. 

4 hours ago, KristenR said:

When she was floating in the lake and looking up, I thought that she was going to be the one to discover there were new dragon riders. But no. Turns out her story was she just needed a spa day?

I believed she wanted to drown herself. But it seems to be some kind of purification rite.

3 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Also Corly's just needs to fess up.  Corlys mentioned that they are not dragon riders but his family has intermarried with Targaryens for generations so not surprising that his son with a non Valyrian can ride a dragon.  Also to my understanding there were other families in old Valyria that were also dragon riders who died in the doom.  So dragon riding wasn't exclusive to Targaryens, it just so happens that they are the only Valyrian dragon riding family still alive.

 

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The distinction I make between this point and my previous one is that this is before all the alleged Targaryen bastards were called to Dragonstone. This was about Addam's ability to claim a dragon, and as far as we knew, he had/has no Targaryen lineage. 

I understood that Addam was also Gorlys' bastard like his brother. He even said it's not about the hair, meaning evidently their dark skin.

Gorlys' words that his family members weren't drangonriders. Well, maybe it's only through Rhaebys their daughter Laena became one and thus also their granddaughter Baela.

Maybe there was Thargaryen blood in Addam's mother? Adam took on her whereas his brother took on Gorlys as a shipbuilder and sailor.   

 

 

[Roseanna]

Mysaria's advice have been good until now, but Rhaenyra should be wary not spend too much time alone with her and even absenting herself from the Council meeting. Lords always resent the lowborn favorite, especially if there is born a rumor that the ruler can be influenced via the pillow talk.

Also, Rhaenyra listening only to Mysaria's advice may sour her relationship with Jace. She should remember how Viserys failed to coach her to rule and not to make the same mistake with her heir. 

So Alicent's third son has now a dragon, too. Why haven't we seen nothing about him?

[ferjy]

You’d think there would be an easier way to claim a dragon. What a brutal ritual. Vermithor even had a smallfolk or two for lunch! 

I’m glad Hugh claimed Vermithor, I like the character. I was surprised at Ulf getting a dragon though. I took him for all talk. I thought he was toast when the dragon confronted him. His first ride on Silverwing... 🤣 They should be good for some laughs. Ulf seems to be the comic relief of the show. 

7 hours ago, SeanC said:

This would have been out of place, but I was half-expecting the sequence with Ulf flying over King's Landing to include a shot of his tavern buddies cheering him on from the ground.

Ha! I think we’re in for some funny scenes with Ulf. 

It was a great episode, more entertaining than the last few. 

 

[ferjy]

7 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

How many people did he kill and eat. 

 

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It's like they just set a big bowl of chips out in front of him.

 

“I bet you can’t eat just one.”

 

[goldilocks]

Which two dragons were those at the end near Rhaenyra? I guess one was Syrax. Who was the other one? They both seemed to be the same color. 

[ferjy]

6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I hope there there's a Count Tully.

“One dragon, two dragons… ah, ah, ah.”

 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

You’d think there would be an easier way to claim a dragon. What a brutal ritual. Vermithor even had a smallfolk or two for lunch! 

It was a dreadful scene but I supposed they wanted to show that dragons *are* dangerous. 

[Lamima]

Vhagar is ugly. 

[Johnny Dollar]

Jace is the Chet Hanks of HOT-D nepo babies.

I assume Aemon being forced to kill Ser Willem was supposed to be a punishment since it is such a dishonorable act, but he seems like the type that will get over it quickly.  He didn’t seem to lose much sleep (except for the nightmares) when they were raping and murdering women and children on his orders.

 

[Haleth]

I loved the scene of Silverwing meeting Ulf.  She was so playful, like a big overgrown puppy.  Who's a good girl?

Those were some pretty desperate people wanting to leave their miserable lives at the Red Keep and take their chances with an open audition with dragons.

I thought Alicent was going to drown herself.  Not sure what the point of her scenes were; we already know she's unhappy about being pushed aside.

You go, Oscar Tully!

Jace was being an elitist brat but he did have a point about possibly being challenged by anyone was a drop of Targ blood and a dragon.  

7 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

No, Rhaenyra didn't sanction that excursion. I think Silverwing was so excited to have a rider again that she got way too close to what is now enemy territory. Ulf was along for the ride.

Oh, I think she absolutely did send Ulf to draw Aemond out.  Thus her smirk at the end.  

[baldryanr]

9 hours ago, magdalene said:

I disagree. Intense therapy can be very helpful to people even those who don't think they have any use for it.  I think Daemon has learned a few things about himself - none of them probably flattering  - which can only be good for him.  I think he has learned what he doesn't want.

Just because it's useful doesn't mean we need an entire season of Daemon having weird dreams.  Plus Daemon the chaotic asshole is a lot more fun to watch than Daemon the tortured soul.

Jace may have come across like an elitist snob, but he's right to be concerned about all of these bastards claiming dragons that are either equal to or stronger than the other Black dragons.  Even if they didn't have a choice, this could easily backfire when the power starts going to their heads.