S02.E04: A Dance Of Dragons

[paigow]

Classic distracted boss...

Daemon: What do you want?

Blackwood: You summoned me... WTF Your Grace?

[paigow]

Aegon is still alive because:

• All the inbreeding created a Wolverine / Deadpool mutation 
• We need to see that Cristy is also an OP battlefield medic

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

This was literally the ONE problem I had with this show, and I'm going to sound like every shitty nerd at a convention, but it's just such an easy fix it bugs me. Melys, Rest In Power, is ambushed from below at the cliffside, which oof, the impact was powerful. The problem for me is in order to execute this explosive upward thrust, we've seen that Vaghar, and really all dragons, need a 'runway'. Think about how long it takes Vaghar to get airborn from a standstill, right? They show it in this episode. In order for a dragon that size to have that much speed from below, it would have had to be far enough over the water to gain that speed, which would of course have given Rhaenys plenty of time to see Vaghar and react. Where is the run-up? Vaghar can't just leap to that speed, you know what I mean? 

If you have her attack from above, though, where maybe she went and used some cloud cover and then just dive bombed Melys, it's a little easier for me to digest I guess. 

Also I think on rewatch later today, I want to have a look at if I think Rhaenys absoutely knew she wouldn't be returning when she left. That would make her "Attack, Melys," even more heroic and sensible, having mentally dealt with her own demise already, she knew her mission to be 'keep going until they're all dead,' and that is why she didn't just beat feet.

Incredible episode of television. 

The were times when the dragons hovered in GoT so there are times where I can’t make sense of it. 😂

The only way I can make sense of it in a semi-believable way is that Rhaenys and Meleys were flying in the opposite direction which gave some time for Aemond and Vhagar to get into position. Then, Rhaenys turns around to scan the area, and she’s also flying really low. Additionally, the castle being right on the cliff gave additional cover.

[tennisgurl]

I knew it was coming but I hoped until the last minute that things would change. RIP Rhaenys and Meleys, the queen that never was. If only they had just let her be queen like they should have, everything would have been different. At least they got to go out like a pair of badasses. 

The Dance of Dragons has fully begun, no getting out of it now. 

Edited July 8 by tennisgurl

[Colorado David]

well that's an episode i wont rewatch. kill all the soldiers you want, fine, knock off a dragon, I AM OUT.

eta: i am just out on the episode rewatch, still watching the show. i will need to find some happy shows to balance this one out.

 

Edited July 8 by Colorado David

[bluvelvet]

I’m still here 

[iMonrey]

I'm getting a little bored with Daemon and his hallucinations/visions. In fact I was getting a little bored with this episode up until about the last half which more than made up for it. Talk about tense.

The whole time I was just yelling for Rhaenys to get the hell out of there. When she ordered Meleys to attack Vhagar I was just like "NO NO NO NO NO!" In fact I pulled a throat muscle yelling at the TV during the entire dragon fight. I can't figure out why Rhaenys would try to attack Vhagar, but the best I can come up with is that she figured Aemond would probably follow her so her only chance at survival was to try to attack.

I need for Aegon to be dead. I know he probably isn't but it's bullshit that both Rhaneys and Meleys are dead but he's not. They both fell out of the sky and into dragonfire. We saw what looked like a huge explosion in the forest where Aegon fell. How is he still alive while Rhaenys isn't?

I did appreciate some of the lighter moments like Aegon trying to speak High Valyrian, badly. And ordering his "Kingsguard" to vacate the room only for two of them to turn and slam right into each other.

Quote

Corlys is SO boring.   When you're watching with the hope that the action will soon pick up, every scene with Corlys becomes painful.   I don't care about Corlys or his illegitimate sons.   

Agreed. I don't know why we keep going back to this, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and every time we cut to the shipyard I hear the proverbial record scratch as the episode comes to another screeching halt.

[aghst]

Someone theorized that Rhaenys knew Corlys had cheated on her so she was ready to die.

Don't buy it but she supposedly had the best dragon for the Blacks so maybe she thought she could take out Amond.

As for the shipyard, I surmise, given that Corlys has had bastard sons:

Spoiler

That one or more of them become dragon riders so key players on Team Black in the war.

 

Edited July 8 by aghst

[baldryanr]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Aegon is still alive because:

• All the inbreeding created a Wolverine / Deadpool mutation 
• We need to see that Cristy is also an OP battlefield medic

Never underestimate the power of plot armor!  To be fair, it did look like Sunfyre was going to land on his feet, but realistically the impact should have turned him into goo inside his fancy Valyrian steel armor.

Gotta wonder if Eve Best will have the traditional final appearance as a corpse since her body shouldn't be recognizable after Meleys crashed back first.

[Oscirus]

What's truly frustrating about Rhaenys's death is that she had two distinct chances to end the war and didn't seize them. If she had taken them all out at the coronation, losing only Helena, or accepted Damon's offer to go after Vhagar with his dragon, she could have eliminated the Greens' best weapon and brought victory within reach. I get that the former would've been undesirable for her because those were her relatives, but the latter would've been far less bloody.

[ChicksDigScars]

Corlys was made better by Rhaenys. Eve Best is magnetic. The Seasnake without the Queen Who Never Was, will indeed be lesser to watch. Oh, I wish Rhaenyra had made her Hand, officially. I supposed Daemon would have had a temper tantrum over that, considering himself to be that. 

As for Daemon's reaction that Meleys is gone, I hope he's pissed beyond measure. They might have had a fighting chance against that ugly old bitch Vhagar if both Meleys and Caraxas were on the attack together. But no. He's off diddling and dreaming in the Creepiest Place on Earth.

 

Edited July 8 by ChicksDigScars

[TV Anonymous]

Well Rhaenys, there is a saying in fighter pilots world, "Lose the sight, lose the fight." She lost sight of Aegon and his dragon, and she lost her life.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Someone theorized that Rhaenys knew Corlys had cheated on her so she was ready to die.

I don't get the sense that the two are connected. I don't see how Corlys cheating prepared her to die. My thinking is that Rhaenys had made peace with it.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Don't buy it but she supposedly had the best dragon for the Blacks so maybe she thought she could take out Amond.

I think a rational person wouldn't pick a fight they didn't think they could win. She turned back to fight Aemond knowing that she might win, might not win, or at least strike some blows that weakens Vhagar and live to fight another day.

I was nice to see commands other than "dracarys."

Edited July 8 by AntFTW

[baldryanr]

17 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I don't get the sense that the two are connected. I don't see how Corlys cheating prepared her to die. My thinking is that Rhaenys had made peace with it.

It would cheapen the character if "my husband cheated on me a few decades ago" somehow equated to screw it, my life is worthless and worth sacrificing.   If anything, this showcases the entire problem both sides have - the dragon riders are all far too valuable to be risking in battle.  To use the nuke analogy, that would be like requiring the pilots of bombers to be 4 and 5 star generals.

[proserpina65]

So babygirl, how do you say "imbecilic lickspittles" in High Valyrian?  Mommy needs to know.  (Seriously, I work with lawyers so this phrase could come in handy.)

Burn, baby, burn!  What's better than revenge?  Revenge with plausible deniability.  "I was aiming for Rhaenys.  Aegon just got in the way."

I will miss Rhaenys since she was the only member of Team Black I liked.  And the most level-headed person on that council.

Continuing to love Alys fucking with Daemon's head.

14 hours ago, peridot said:

Holy crap at the murder attempt by Aemond, though!  Wasn't he worried about what the witnesses would say?

See my comment about plausible deniability.  Plus, it was far up in the sky so probably no one on the ground would think Aemond was trying to kill Aegon on purpose.

14 hours ago, peridot said:

I was surprised that Cole went behind Aegon's back to plan the ambush. 

Would you trust Aegon to not talk about it and chance the plan getting back to the other side?  And there's nothing dishonorable about an ambush.  It's a legitimate battle tactic.

14 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Vhagar has twice ambushed smaller dragons in a clear and open sky which really demonstrates how good she is in battle. She's so big and neither Arrax nor Meleys had an indication as to her presence when she made her final attack. I can only imagine what she was like at her peak.

Yep, what a demonstration of why Otto thought acquiring her was such a boon.  I do disagree with you about Aemond's bond with her, though.  She clearly would've been happy to just nap, but she went into battle and did exactly what he said because their bond is strong.

Speaking of napping Mee Maw, I loved how when Aemond said not yet, she just plunked right back down.  Not laying down elegantly but just collapsed.  Mee Maw is done with this shit.

14 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Have we ever seen Dreamfyre up close - Heleana's dragon.

The closest shot we got of her was when she tried to roast young Aemond in the dragon pit after the Pink Dread "prank".

14 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Meleys held her own against Vhagar, which was very cool to see.

She wasn't holding her own.  Vhagar had her in one claw and was roasting her.  She got a few licks in, but if they hadn't ended up too close to the ground for Vhagar's size, Meleys would've been toast.

13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I'd agree. Vhagar is humongous. It seemed like Meleys was quicker and that worked for her. Vhagar being a very large dragon leaves a lot of room for Rhaenys and Meleys to get in, strike a blow, and get out.

That's what Rhaenys tried and Vhagar just grabbed Meleys by the leg and had her trapped.

13 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Yes the dragon deaths were painful. Sunfyre was with Aegon since the crib from what I read. I assume Meleys/Rhaenys was similar.

Actually several of the dragons we've seen had previous riders: Caraxes, Meleys, Dreamfyre, Vhagar.  Even Balerion the Black Dread, whose skull we've seen had more than one rider (four in his case).

 

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Well Rhaenys, there is a saying in fighter pilots world, "Lose the sight, lose the fight." She lost sight of Aegon and his dragon, and she lost her life.

As I watching the episode, I was thinking these dragons have huge blind spots where the rider can't see. A rider is completely vulnerable from below. The dragon's wide body and wings cut off a huge amount of visibility. It seems really easy to lose sight of your opponent.

Rhaenys was flying pretty low and looking up and around for Vhagar and Aemond, and then she goes over that cliff where there is nothing but space and opportunity.

Edited July 8 by AntFTW

[Oscirus]

Corlys ignored Rhaenys for a minute after Laenor died. I don't imagine that's his first time he's done such a thing after a disagreement with Rhaenys. I think she knew of his infidelities for a while; she just kept that fact to herself. Unlike Kat of GOT fame, she doesn't hold the father's actions against the son, hence the last talk about not letting his past hold him back. 

[AntFTW]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

She wasn't holding her own.  Vhagar had her in one claw and was roasting her.  She got a few licks in, but if they hadn't ended up too close to the ground for Vhagar's size, Meleys would've been toast.

Would've but wasn't... while getting a few licks in. I think it was @Oscirus that said they were using Vhagar's size against her. I think that counts in Meleys' favor.

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The were times when the dragons hovered in GoT so there are times where I can’t make sense of it. 😂

The only way I can make sense of it in a semi-believable way is that Rhaenys and Meleys were flying in the opposite direction which gave some time for Aemond and Vhagar to get into position. Then, Rhaenys turns around to scan the area, and she’s also flying really low. Additionally, the castle being right on the cliff gave additional cover.

I've given up thinking that these dragons obey the laws of physics in any way.

 

[Oscirus]

8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Would've but wasn't... while getting a few licks in. I think it was @Oscirus that said they were using Vhagar's size against her. I think that counts in Meleys' favor.

 

Yea, Meleys got underneath  vhagar and it was clearly bothering vhagar which is why she had to drop and regroup.

 

53 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I think a rational person wouldn't pick a fight they didn't think they could win. She turned back to fight Aemond knowing that she might win, might not win, or at least strike some blows that weakens Vhagar and live to fight another day.

I was nice to see commands other than "dracarys."

 

The director's approach made that last turn and attack command look like a suicide ride. Maybe she was over the dragon fighting, but once she turned, even Aemond looked surprised.

[Tachi Rocinante]

If you're flying low looking for a huge-ass dragon, maybe don't fly straight at the one fucking place it could be using as cover??

[Helena Dax]

I can't believe how upset I get over CGI creatures' deaths. I'm sorry we've lost Rhaenys as well, I liked her a lot. 

I guess Aegon isn't dead; otherwise, Aemond wouldn't have seen the need to finish him off. In any case, I don't think he'll be in a good shape.  I didn't see if his dragon is alive too. Hope so, because he is/was super cute. 

I don't hate Alicent as much as I hate Aegon, Aemond and especially Criston "Oranges" Cole, but I was shaking my head so much when she drank the moon tea. Also, she was brutal to Aegon, wasn't she? After learning that she had misunderstood Viserys, it's like she couldn't stand the sight of Aegon (not that she liked him that much to begin with).

[bluvelvet]

Maybe Rhaenys was flying low thinking Vhagar would be flying high but didn’t account for that cliff. Conversely if Lucerys had stayed low he probably would’ve been ok. Vhagar used cloud cover there and came straight at him. I think she probably has known about Corlys infidelity for some time.  She looked and said “your mother must have been very beautiful”.  I also think she was probably doing a suicide mission when she turned back but figured she could do some damage to Vhagar in the process. 
 

I keep going back to poor Sunfyre who probably had no clue he was going to battle.  Also looking at the scene with him nudging Aegon, it really looked like the dragon was smiling and being playful.  Sunfyre is probably one of the two beings  in this world that really loved Aegon, the second I assume was his son. Also was Aegon always drinking this heavily or did it start after Jahearys’s death. I know Aegon is a terrible person but the actor makes me feel a twinge of sympathy. Alicent and Viserys really failed their children.  That moment Alicent could have offered Aegon some real advice instead she told him to “do nothing” and basically insulted him. 
 

Meleys knew they were going to battle and I think both Meleys and Rhaenys knew there was a chance they wouldn’t come back.  When Meleys looked back at Rhaenys with that sad look on her face. I don’t know how they got those dragon expressions. I need to see the making of for this episode. 
 

My hearts still breaks for these dragons. 
 

Edited July 8 by bluvelvet

[tennisgurl]

The dance really has started in earnest now. On the one hand, I love seeing so many dragons in action, but on the other, I hate seeing them in pain. Its so hard to watch these beautiful wonderous creatures, the last of their kind, killing each other over who gets to sit on the fancy uncomfortable chair. This might have been a technical victory for Team Green and a huge loss for Team Black, but things aren't looking awesome for either side. 

Beyond Cole being unqualified to be Hand on every level, having your head of Kingsguard and Hand of the King be the same guy is a stupid idea. They need someone to keep things running in Kings Landing as well as someone to do the fighting, so now while he's off doing missions they don't have anyone as the kings second in command. I will at least give Cole this, his plan was pretty good, even if it meant he had to sacrifice a ton of his own men. 

At least Alicent is smart enough to not add some new Cole's to the family. Alicent isn't wrong that Aegon is an embarrassingly bad king and crappy person, but its still pretty cold to say that to your own sons face. I don't think that she ever really meant for him to be a real leader, she and Otto always planned on being the real power behind the throne, but she really should have spent more time actually teaching him how to be a good king. 

If nothing else, Aegon and Sunfye do seem to love each other, they both looked so happy flying around together. I know it looks bad, but I hope that Sunfyre is alive, he's such a gorgeous dragon. I guess Aemond decided that he's already a kinslayer so he's just going to double down, although I don't think Aegon is dead yet. He really shouldn't have fucked with his famously bloodthirsty brother. 

Alys seems like an interesting character and it seems like Daemon agrees. 

It was cool to see an adult Willem Blackwood, the kid who killed a Bracken bully way back in season one. 

[Uncle JUICE]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Beyond Cole being unqualified to be Hand on every level, having your head of Kingsguard and Hand of the King be the same guy is a stupid idea. They need someone to keep things running in Kings Landing as well as someone to do the fighting, so now while he's off doing missions they don't have anyone as the kings second in command.

I feel like Cole somehow has THREE jobs: Hand, Lord Commander of the Kingsgaurd, and whatever the equivalent to Master of Ships is for ground troops. I thought, initially, that Kingsgaurd were largely like Secret Service, their single charge is to protect the royal family. Running military operations seems like scope creep, and not necessarily like they'd have enough overlap in skill sets to be the same dude. In any case, that guy sucks and there isn't a death grisly enough for him. 

 

12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

On the one hand, I love seeing so many dragons in action, but on the other, I hate seeing them in pain.

The heartbreaking look Melys manages to give Rhaenys, the "I'm sorry we lost. THank you for being my rider and friend" as her eyes closed was fucking the worst. I was one of those book readers who was like "BRING ON THE DANCE!" and now it's here and I'm not sure I'm ready. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I feel like Cole somehow has THREE jobs: Hand, Lord Commander of the Kingsgaurd, and whatever the equivalent to Master of Ships is for ground troops.

People may not remember the comedy show "In Living Color," even though it served as the launching pad for Jim Carrey, Jamie Foxx, the Wayans siblings and others. Even those who do probably don't remember one of the lesser skits on that show, "Hey Mon!" about a hard-working West Indian family that multitasks. 
 

Anyway, you made me think of that and someone going "Him have tree jobs!"

You of course left out his job of taking care of Ali's bidness.

Edited July 8 by Chicago Redshirt

[Colorado David]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

I've given up thinking that these dragons obey the laws of physics in any way.

 

Mind you the bumblebee flies, but physics says it shouldn't be able to. Animal magic i guess

[Uncle JUICE]

Just now, Chicago Redshirt said:

People may not remember the comedy show "In Living Color," even though it served as the launching pad for Jim Carrey, Jamie Foxx, the Wayans siblings and others. Even those who do probably don't remember one of the lesser skits on that show, "Hey Mon!" about a hard-working West Indian family that multitasks. 

Anyway, you made me think of that and someone going "Him have tree jobs!"

You of course left out his job of taking care of Ali's bidness.

I wish this had a title he'd use in the small council. Or that Alicent would show up to the meeting and suggestively handle his ball, "This is mine now."

[ChicksDigScars]

As if I couldn't hate the Greens more, parading Meleys' head around and giving King Rapey Drunkey Dopey credit for slaying her, will make my blood boil. Aegon has to be alive, because that would make a bloodthirsty kinslayer the new King. Aegon's toddler daughter is next in line, then Helaena, being the next sibling in line, and then Aemond, then Daeron. Surely Aemond would jump those two in succession?

 

Edited July 8 by ChicksDigScars

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 minute ago, ChicksDigScars said:

As if I couldn't hate the Greens more, parading Meleys's head around and giving Kind Rapey Drunkey Dopey credit for slaying her, will make my blood boil. Aegon has to be alive, because that would make a bloodthirsty kinslayer the new King. Aegon's toddler daughter is next in line, then Helaena, being the next sibling in line, and then Aemond, then Daeron. Surely Aemond would jump those two in succession. 

Part of why there is even a civil war is the notion that those with va-jay-jays need not apply for the role of monarch and the title does not pass through them.

I think that in the show Aegon currently has no living male children.

So the line of succession would go first to Aemond, then to Daeron. 

[AntFTW]

44 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Sunfyre is probably one of the two beings  in this world that really loved Aegon, the second I assume was his son.

I would have assumed Aegon was the second. 🫢

[proserpina65]

32 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Also was Aegon always drinking this heavily or did it start after Jahearys’s death.

He was drinking pretty heavily in season one.  There's actually a conversation about it between him and Aemond before the family dinner from hell in episode 8 where Aemond says his brother drinks more than a Braavosi sea lord.  (It's very much a private conversation done under the main sound in the scene so you have to turn up the volume to hear it.)

24 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Running military operations seems like scope creep, and not necessarily like they'd have enough overlap in skill sets to be the same dude.

Thing is, this is actually what Cole is good at and why Rhaenyra named him to the King's Guard to begin with.  He had actual battle experience and clearly is a good tactician.  But he's absolutely way out of his depth as Hand.

8 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Aegon's toddler daughter is next in line, then Helaena, being the next sibling in line, and then Aemond, then Daeron. Surely Aemond would jump those two in succession?

You think they wouldn't skip right over two females?  That's the biggest real argument for Aegon over Rhaenyra as ruler, that Westeros wouldn't accept a woman as monarch?  Or, to quote Rhaenys, "men would rather put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne".  So I think for all practical purposes, Aemond is next in line.

 

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

 

You think they wouldn't skip right over two females?  That's the biggest real argument for Aegon over Rhaenyra as ruler, that Westeros wouldn't accept a woman as monarch?  Or, to quote Rhaenys, "men would rather put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne".  So I think for all practical purposes, Aemond is next in line.

 

Isn't Daeron another of Alicent and Viserys' grandchildren, a boy, who's warding in OldTown? Do I have his lineage wrong? Aemond doesn't have a kid yet, so Daeron can't be his. 

3 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Thing is, this is actually what Cole is good at and why Rhaenyra named him to the King's Guard to begin with.  He had actual battle experience and clearly is a good tactician.  But he's absolutely way out of his depth as Hand.

 

I thought he was a good FIGHTER, not a good tactician, I mean at least that's what the show shows us, right? That'd make him an amazing bodyguard for sure. Did I miss something in those early episodes (real early, like episode 2?!?) where they talk about his strategic prowess rather than fighting skills? I think he was involved in some fight at Duskendale early on, but I think it was basically as a soldier. 

[AntFTW]

8 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Isn't Daeron another of Alicent and Viserys' grandchildren, a boy, who's warding in OldTown? Do I have his lineage wrong? Aemond doesn't have a kid yet, so Daeron can't be his. 

Daeron is one of Viserys' sons with Alicent. He would be 2nd in line after Aemond.

Edited July 8 by AntFTW

[proserpina65]

7 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Isn't Daeron another of Alicent and Viserys' grandchildren, a boy, who's warding in OldTown? Do I have his lineage wrong? Aemond doesn't have a kid yet, so Daeron can't be his. 

Daeron is the youngest child of Viserys and Alicent, so he's Aemond's younger brother.

8 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Isn't Daeron another of Alicent and Viserys' grandchildren, a boy, who's warding in OldTown? Do I have his lineage wrong? Aemond doesn't have a kid yet, so Daeron can't be his. 

I thought he was a good FIGHTER, not a good tactician, I mean at least that's what the show shows us, right? That'd make him an amazing bodyguard for sure. Did I miss something in those early episodes (real early, like episode 2?!?) where they talk about his strategic prowess rather than fighting skills? I think he was involved in some fight at Duskendale early on, but I think it was basically as a soldier. 

You know, actually you're right.  But this season is proving that he has skill as a tactician as well.  Unless the ambush plan was entirely Aemond's, but it didn't seem that way in the discussion in ep one.

[aghst]

7 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

. I thought he was a good FIGHTER, not a good tactician, I mean at least that's what the show shows us, right? That'd make him an amazing bodyguard for sure. Did I miss something in those early episodes (real early, like episode 2?!?) where they talk about his strategic prowess rather than fighting skills? I think he was involved in some fight at Duskendale early on, but I think it was basically as a soldier. 

If Team Black showed up with 2 or more dragons, then maybe Vhagar would have been at risk.

Then it wouldn't have been such a great plan.

In fact after Luke was ambushed, maybe they should send out 2 dragons or more at a time.

 

As far as Agon's dragon liking him, if you think about how dogs reflect their owners, like some vicious dogs are bred by sociopathic people, maybe Agon's dragon isn't so lovable and affectionate with the horrible human being that Agon is.

Did we ever see Agon interacting with his dragon before?  We could surmise that he's not good in battle, hasn't trained in battle much.  So was Agon spending a lot of time with his dragon or involved in other past times?

 

[Uncle JUICE]

8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Daeron is one of Viserys' sons with Alicent. He would be 2nd in line after Aemond.

ETA, explained aboce, I forget he's Aemond's brother, not Aegon's kid. STUPID NAMES! :)

Edited July 8 by Uncle JUICE

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

As for the shipyard, I surmise, given that Corlys has had bastard sons:

  Reveal spoiler

That one or more of them become dragon riders so key players on Team Black in the war.

 

Thus far only Targaryens have ridden dragons. Any bastards of Corlys wouldn't be Targaryen, unless their mother is Targaryen. I guess maybe a non-Targaryen could ride a dragon, but we've never seen it happen.

3 hours ago, baldryanr said:

To be fair, it did look like Sunfyre was going to land on his feet, but realistically the impact should have turned him into goo inside his fancy Valyrian steel armor.

Both Sunfyre and Melys crashed to the ground in a fiery explosion, which I guess is to be expected of a fire-breathing dragon. I don't see how Aegon survives that if Rhaenys does not.

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I was nice to see commands other than "dracarys."

Yes, but "attack" downright sent shivers down my back.

[baldryanr]

44 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

Mind you the bumblebee flies, but physics says it shouldn't be able to. Animal magic i guess

I'm assuming you're kidding unless you think the bumblebee actually is a magical creature.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

She wasn't holding her own.  Vhagar had her in one claw and was roasting her.  She got a few licks in, but if they hadn't ended up too close to the ground for Vhagar's size, Meleys would've been toast.

On rewatch, it looks like Meleys was spitting some fire of her own as well.

[proserpina65]

12 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

On rewatch, it looks like Meleys was spitting some fire of her own as well.

She was but it didn't seem to be having any effect.  She did get a slash or two into Vhagar's belly though.

[Lady S.]

15 hours ago, Oscirus said:

 

 

15 hours ago, aghst said:

Previous episode, Baela saw men on horseback from way up high and Rhaenys was flying low, towards the castle when Vhagar attacked and she couldn't see that huge aircraft carrier sized thing?

 

Also, I thought dragons hadn't fought each other.  So how would the riders get experienced in dragon to dragon combat exactly?

I think Aemond was much further back, closer to King's Landing than to the army. We saw Aegon and Sunfyre go past him, and Cole's signal didn't go straight to Aemond, it went to a guy who blew a horn which was heard by another guy who blew a horn and so on. 

These particular dragons have never fought each other before but they were acting on instinct, I guess. In the Inside the Ep they said the director based the fighting on birds of prey.

17 hours ago, peridot said:

Harrenhal is a creepy place.  I'm surprised that Daemon drank the potion that Alys gave him. 

Funny how he went from refusing to eat the food to drinking a potion from someone he just called a witch. Dude is really losing it, and he wasn't all that stable to begin with.

Interesting to note the words of Dreamnyra which set him off, not about the throne, but about Viserys loving her more. I've always thought that was his real problem, wanting to be the most important person to Viserys. His brother/her father will always be the third wheel in their marriage, and now he feels grown Rhaenyra has turned soft like Viserys and is unfairly pushing him away. All because his unique grieving process can involve making a dead baby joke or killing someone else's baby.

17 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Sunfyre's a pretty dragon. Aegon doesn't deserve him. 

Yeah, so pretty and so cute nuzzling him.

Nice touch with Aegon barely being able to speak Valyrian while Aemond is fluent in it. Tis he the second son that studied history and philosophy and languages, and like Daemon and Rhaenyra, he likes to use his ancestral tongue to have private conversations.

Good news is, for all those worried about Helaena being saddled with an unwanted pregnancy, looks like Aegon's gonna be out of commission for a while. (That also means Aemond is still the heir and will soon take full advantage of his position, which is maybe not so good for the realm.)

17 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

Have we ever seen Dreamfyre up close - Heleana's dragon.  Aemond got a Vhagar since he didn't bond with or claim a dragon early on.

I am noting the similar dragon names in families Syrax (Rhaenyra) Arrax (Lucerys), Vermax(Jacerys), Tyraxes (Joffrey).

 

Not up close, no. We saw Dreamfyre scaring off l'il Aemond in the dragonpit when he was exploring after the pig prank, and she was flying with the other dragons at Driftmark in the next ep. That's why I was hoping to see all of the kiddie funeral, we could've had a good look if Heleana had to have her dragon burn her son as Rhaenyra's did with Aemma and the heir for a day. (We first heard mention of Dreamfyre in ep 2 when Daemon stole one of her eggs. So Helaena and Aemond must have both had unhatched eggs and had to claim pre-owned dragons. Meaning hers is the second biggest dragon on Team Green, but she was never going to ride to war, and now Aemond's just taken out the only other dragonrider in King's Landing.)

I noticed that Rhaenyra's three elder sons have dragons with Valyrian names like hers, but her Aegon's, mentioned last ep, is named Stormcloud, a regular English name, like Baela's Moondancer or Aegon the Usurper's Sunfyre (which just has a y instead of i to look kinda Valyrian). Mayhaps a bit of compensation to emphasize the Targ heritage of her non-Valyrian-haired bastards.

Speaking of Valyrian bastards, poor Alyn. Bad enough his father acts so distant with him, now his unacknowledged stepmother acts like she's hitting on him just to make a crack about his mother.

17 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Also pretty sure the Grand Maester knew exactly what was really going on when they had their little conversation earlier.

You mean his long pause when speaking of "the...recipient" of the Plan Tea? Yeah, he definitely knows this brew wasn't just for another servant abused by Aegon. At this point, maybe Ali's sons are the only ones who don't know about her and Cole, because I really don't think they'd be so buddy-buddy with him if they knew he was fucking their mom.

Updated Character Guide

[Chicago Redshirt]

36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Thus far only Targaryens have ridden dragons. Any bastards of Corlys wouldn't be Targaryen, unless their mother is Targaryen. I guess maybe a non-Targaryen could ride a dragon, but we've never seen it happen.

Both Sunfyre and Melys crashed to the ground in a fiery explosion, which I guess is to be expected of a fire-breathing dragon. I don't see how Aegon survives that if Rhaenys does not.

I suppose it is possible that till now no one has tested the theory of whether you needed to have actual Targaryen DNA to ride a dragon. It could be that having the blood of Old Valyria is good enough. It could also be that just being bold enough to try to claim a dragon would suffice and the Targaryens have been engaging in some propaganda over the years to secure their authority. (I suppose it's possible that it just so happens that Corlys slept with a woman who was herself a Targaryen bastard, though one would think that the Hulls would be lighter-skinned.)

It's possible that Sunfyre fared better than Melys in all of the fighting, Sunfyre fell a shorter distance, etc. But even accepting for discussion's sake that Aegon/Sunfyre and Rhaenys/Melys were subject to similar forces, Aegon is presumably somewhere between 25-40 years younger than Rhaenys, and potentially had better armor. Team Green is incentivized to get Aegon and Sunfyre the best medical treatment available as fast as they can (and we are in a universe with magic), where they are incentivized to let Rhaenys/Melys die.  So it's plausible in my mind that Aegon survived those forces and Rhaenys did not. 

2 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

You mean his long pause when speaking of "the...recipient" of the Plan Tea? Yeah, he definitely knows this brew wasn't just for another servant abused by Aegon. At this point, maybe Ali's sons are the only ones who don't know about her and Cole, because I really don't think they'd be so buddy-buddy with him if they knew he was fucking their mom.

Updated Character Guide

I imagine that Larys had no clue specifically about Cole and Ali. But he saw the container of Plan Tea, so I suspect he's about to find out what made Ali drink it and is getting actual action with her while he (presumably) is still stuck wanking it to her feet. Or maybe there's enough of Ali to go around these days.

[baldryanr]

42 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I imagine that Larys had no clue specifically about Cole and Ali. But he saw the container of Plan Tea, so I suspect he's about to find out what made Ali drink it and is getting actual action with her while he (presumably) is still stuck wanking it to her feet. Or maybe there's enough of Ali to go around these days.

Someone as sneaky and clever as Larys, complete with a network of spies, would absolutely know, or at least strongly suspect.  Among other things, he was watching last episode when Alicent gave Criston her favor.  He has been observing both of them for over a decade, so he should be able to pick up on their behavior.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

Someone as sneaky and clever as Larys, complete with a network of spies, would absolutely know, or at least strongly suspect.  Among other things, he was watching last episode when Alicent gave Criston her favor.  He has been observing both of them for over a decade, so he should be able to pick up on their behavior.

It depends on how discreet Ali and Crispy have been and how blinded Larys is by dem toes. I think that until the Plan Tea piece of the puzzle came into place, every public/semi-public thing that happened could relatively easily be rationalized.

Asking for the Queen's favor is something a member of the Kingsguard might do in general. Doesn't mean she's sleeping with anyone.

Sharing lingering looks across the Small Council table or being on each other's side on every issue is something that could just happen naturally. Doesn't mean they're sleeping together.

But there's not a good explanation for an empty container of Plan Tea up in the Queen's personal chambers. If she got it for someone else, they wouldn't have drank it there. And the only reason for Ali to drink it is if she's letting someone go further than feet first base. 

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I feel like Cole somehow has THREE jobs: Hand, Lord Commander of the Kingsgaurd, and whatever the equivalent to Master of Ships is for ground troops. I thought, initially, that Kingsgaurd were largely like Secret Service, their single charge is to protect the royal family. Running military operations seems like scope creep, and not necessarily like they'd have enough overlap in skill sets to be the same dude. In any case, that guy sucks and there isn't a death grisly enough for him. 

The Kingsguard are the royal family's protectors, but because they're also supposed to be drawn from the greatest knights in the realm, they can also be assigned to military operations. And since there are no standing armies, there's no separate cabinet post for a senior land commander (there's a master of ships because a proper navy has be operated on a standing basis).

[CeeBeeGee]

18 hours ago, go4luca said:

I hate seeing any animal in pain so seeing what those dragons went through broke my heart.  I don't care that they're CGI.  I don't care if you laugh at me.  That was painful to watch.

I hatehateHATE animals being treated badly. I absolutely sobbed when the Night King murdered Visarion. I was inconsolable all that night.

 

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I did appreciate some of the lighter moments like Aegon trying to speak High Valyrian, badly. And ordering his "Kingsguard" to vacate the room only for two of them to turn and slam right into each other.

That was hilarious.

 

5 hours ago, Oscirus said:

What's truly frustrating about Rhaenys's death is that she had two distinct chances to end the war and didn't seize them. If she had taken them all out at the coronation, losing only Helena, or accepted Damon's offer to go after Vhagar with his dragon, she could have eliminated the Greens' best weapon and brought victory within reach. 

I was thinking that as well. She could've stopped this in its tracks. And as amusing as it was seeing her dismiss Daemon so effortlessly, she probably should've gone with him.

[Stardancer Supreme]

22 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I really appreciate Alicent telling Aegon to his face he's nothing more than a figurehead. She should have followed up with the truth that he's existence is to ensure the Hightower hold on power but I think he'd have probably attacked her in response so it's wise she didn't.

I'm glad Jace feels secure in his position to speak up at the council. It was a nice contrast to Aegon who doesn't care to know things but also wants to be ignorant in charge. Then Rhaenyra told Jace the story. Their relationship also stands out in contrast to the other familial ones on the show including her own with Viserys.

This episode really demonstrated why it's a bad idea for the Hand and the Lord Commander to be the same person. Cristy's out fighting battles and there was no one to keep things running in King's Landing and, more importantly, keep Aegon from doing stupid shit.

Sunfyre's a pretty dragon. Aegon doesn't deserve him. And I love me some Vhagar but I wish she was just hanging out, watching the fight and eating some popcorn, refusing to fight any more battles. I actually wish all the dragons had refused to fight each other but that was never going to happen.

There's no way in hell Aemond didn't know EXACTLY what he was doing when he told Vhagar to dracarys Aegon. He'll pretend his only thought was taking out Meleys but he knew the brother he hates was in the path and called it anyway. We said when Vhagar ate Luke his only recourse was to lean into the Kinslayer title and he did it twice. 

I know Aegon's not dead because Aemond had drawn his sword to finish the job (up to debate whether it would have been a mercy killing or one he'd relish doing up close). Aemond doesn't have to be successful when he goes after family members, he just needs to make the attempt. Alicent will be so proud.

RIP Rhaenys and Meleys. Imagine how things would have been if Jaehaerys and the aristocracy weren't such sexist assholes and let you be queen. 

Damn. I'm pouring one out for my homie Rhaenys. She and Meleys were real ones to the end. I sometimes hate being Unsullied, because I was hoping for Rhaenys to take Aegon and Sunfire out of the picture. The King should have stayed in the Red Keep, but I knew his ego and insecurities would make him join the battle. Is Aegon dead, though? Is he the one who earned the moniker "Aegon the Unworthy"?

I wonder if Corlys knew that the last time he'd have his loving wife, even knowing that she knew about his bastards? I hope he told he loved her. He and Baela are going to freak out...

Gwaine Hightower appears to be over this war and the dragons. He should have known that Crispy (sadly escaping the dragonfire) would have Aemond and Vhagar skulking about to even the score. That's a brilliant idea, honestly. Crispy didn't account for Aegon being stupid enough to enter the fray with no battle experience and no real experience in dragon control.

So Daemon thought that he and Rhaenys could take out Vhagar? Meleys managed to wound the oldster, but I think Vhagar's will to kill is way deeper.

So Alicent laid with Crispy enough times to get pregnant? And allowed Larys to see the potion? Girl. I will give her a few points for laying Aegon low in his chambers. Hell, does he know how to read? His High Valyrian seemed a bit shaky as well with his duel with Aemond. Of course Aemond was going to get him back for that scene in the Brothel. He's taking this Kinslayer thing to the head; I'm surprisingly not mad at Aemond for that.

Edited July 9 by Stardancer Supreme

[go4luca]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I hatehateHATE animals being treated badly. I absolutely sobbed when the Night King murdered Visarion. I was inconsolable all that night.

Right there with you.  Especially with so few dragons left after so many years.  That scene broke me.

[magdalene]

Yes, I am so upset for all the dragons. Look, how beautiful Sunfyre was?

The dragons are like innocent doggos with nuclear power loyal to their human particulars. Even Caraxes with his little anger issues is basically a very good puppy with a very long neck. I don't want him hurt.

This sucks.