S07.E07: Ghost Of A Second Chance

[DanaK]

Quote

8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT

Logline: Maddie and Athena investigate a case surrounding an abducted mother and child as Hen and Karen learn more about Mara's family history. Meanwhile, Eddie grapples with unresolved feelings for someone from his past.

 

[Jillybean]

I'm so over Eddie and his inability to move on. We saw no resemblance between the retail woman and his late wife (who seems to have been retconned into the perfect wife and mother).

Maddie gets a major hair cut and pierces her nose and no one mentions it?

I was thinking there was no way they brought on MJW for one scene. Then, as soon as I saw the way he looked at Bobby, I knew he was in that apartment fire. Looking forward to the next episode.

 

[kwnyc]

Eddie is a jerk. He's hitting on a woman who looks like his dead wife, while getting closer to his girlfriend, practically proposing.

I was very interested in Mara's backstory, and glad she got to see her brother again.

And the kidnapping was a little too coincidental with Maddie's past experiences. 

 

 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

We saw no resemblance between the retail woman and his late wife (who seems to have been retconned into the perfect wife and mother).

It's the same actress so there's definitely a resemblance.  I don't think they're retconning Shannon into something she wasn't.  I think Eddie is.  The actress is the same but I'm wondering if, when others see her, if they'll get a different actress and not see a resemblance. 

I don't know where they're going with Eddie. I doubt it'll be a straightforward cheating story without something more going on.  Even though it goes against who Eddie is, I won't lie.  I think it's the most interesting twist in his romantic story in a long time.

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I was thinking there was no way they brought on MJW for one scene. Then, as soon as I saw the way he looked at Bobby, I knew he was in that apartment fire.

I knew he'd be in more than one episode and connected to Bobby so I wasn't surprised but I do think that moment was so well done. 

 

[MrsDixon2U]

Where to begin? I enjoyed Maddie & Athena teaming up again. Coming from different perspectives they collaborated well to help expedite the resolution of the kidnapping situation. I liked how Chimney was attentive enough to pick up on the “Sweet Pea” when Mr. Creepo said it. A lot of people were involved, rotating partners as they navigated this investigation/rescue. Maddie & Athena, Hen & Chimney, Athena & Rick, Chimney & Maddie, Bobby & Athena, Maddie & Amir, Buck & Chimney, Athena & Buck, Misc cops. It was nice to see so many different couplings share little moments together.

Henren are just the best, period. Any child in their care is truly lucky to have them in their corner. They nurture, protect, and stand ten toes down for their kids. What caring, loving people. I’m happy Mara bonded enough with Denny that he was able to give much needed insight to Hen & Karen so they could come up with a plan to help her. I also liked that Mara was able to see her adorable little half-brother again. So sweet. The Henren household is nothing but love.

Eddie what is your damage? You ain’t slick my guy. It’s going to be an innocent little slip of the tongue that’s gonna bust your game wide open. You’re confused… so it’s okay to sh*t on other people? Marisol is not just some chick you bang on occasion; she lives with you and your son. Just like with Ana, you are dragging your son into your mess; watching him bond with these women (who you obviously give less than a crap about) to coldly dropping them in a heartbeat. How many more people will you wreck before you figure out your truth? And this doppelganger Shannon deal pfft.

And… here comes the trauma drama for my beloved Bathena. Even before the preview, when Amir showed up (I love MJW by the way) and I saw the burn scars, I knew immediately what his connection to Bobby would be. When he was talking to Maddie, it was something about his demeanor and the way he spoke about blame (that was cloaked in bitterness) that started ringing the alarm bells. No doubt when he saw this carefree smiling Bobby walking in with a baby cuddled in his arms he was triggered. I’m glad at least they showed in the preview Bobby giving Athena a heads up about the situation. Word to the wise Amir, I know you must have suffered unbelievable pain and you hold Bobby responsible, but have you met Athena? She don’t play about her family either. Just ask Jeffrey the rapist kidnapper & Sniper dude who shot Bobby at the warehouse fire. Oh, that’s right, you can’t.

[Irlandesa]

37 minutes ago, MrsDixon2U said:

Marisol is not just some chick you bang on occasion; she lives with you and your son.

She doesn't live with them.  All in one episode he moved her in, discovered she was a nun, panicked about living with her and moved her out. 

But otherwise I agree with your sentiment.

Edited May 10 by Irlandesa

[CoyoteBlue]

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's the same actress so there's definitely a resemblance.

Dang, really? Get rid of the bangs and give her a whole new hair color (and a nose job?) and she's unrecognizable to me. I didn't even think she looked similar enough to grab his attention from the sidewalk, let alone lead to an obsession...

ETA Where do they find these adorable foster babies?!? First Nia, now Tyson? Daaaamn.

Edited May 10 by CoyoteBlue

[stonehaven]

I thought this was a good episode but I have ONE nitpick. I got hooked on this show because of the rescues. Sometimes intense, sometimes sad, sometimes hilarious or over the top.

Tonight, had two rescues. I found myself looking at the clock a lot and wondering where the rescues had really gone. Maybe two and even those scenes were cut short.

Oh yeah, I am so over Eddie drama. He's just not that interesting to focus so much.

[lianau]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's the same actress so there's definitely a resemblance.  I don't think they're retconning Shannon into something she wasn't.  I think Eddie is.  The actress is the same but I'm wondering if, when others see her, if they'll get a different actress and not see a resemblance. 

 

 

And for good reasons. Shannon wasn't  a bad mother or wife. She was exhausted and on her own with a disabled child  and difficult in laws.  I'm not sure if it was in the Eddie Beings episode where he talked about how he was the first to leave but he (and everyone else) got to pretend it was for noble reasons and when Shannon left everyone just hated her.  And I think Eddie has slowly realized that he wasn't blameless in all of that but Shannon is dead and there is now way for him to resolve that conflict anymore. 

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's the same actress so there's definitely a resemblance.  I don't think they're retconning Shannon into something she wasn't.  I think Eddie is.  The actress is the same but I'm wondering if, when others see her, if they'll get a different actress and not see a resemblance. 

Wow. I wondered at first if maybe it was the same actress but even with all the flashbacks I didn't think she looked anything like Shannon so I was confused why Eddie did. But hiring the same actress is pure Soap Opera 101. Maybe she's Shannon's evil twin! And maybe the real Shannon fell down a well! How did Shannon die, anyway? I honestly can't remember.

I'm sorry, but Hen and Karen's foster child story is boring the shit out of me. I really don't care about this kid's trauma and if she's sitting in her room staring out the window like she's catatonic she needs more serious help than Hen or Karen can offer. Maybe now that her baby brother has magically cured her they can move onto something interesting. I detest kid stories in general but this one is especially tedious.

[Crashcourse]

I'm sick of Hen and Karen's foster kid story, too.  The only good thing was seeing the little girl finally smile when she saw her half-brother, because previously she looked like a demon child.  

[tennisgurl]

Maddie really should get some more therapy, its not good for her as a person or as a professional to put her stuff all over every woman she meets who might be a battered wife. She still handled the situation as well as she could but assuming the man who was kidnapping the woman and her baby could have ended really badly. 

This was overall a good episode, even if it was very soap opera. Literally hiring the same actress to play a person who looks like them but in a wig? How very Melrose Place of you, show. Lots of tension and I enjoyed seeing so many different character pairings and everyone working together, although I was disappointed by the lack of rescues. 

I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea the woman playing Shannon was the same woman playing Eddie's new girlfriend, she looked so different with lighter hair. I do not care at all about Eddie's romantic drama, especially when it involves him cheating on poor Marisol and dragging this new woman into it. She's certainly not going to be thrilled when she realizes that not only does her new boyfriend have a serious girlfriend, but he's only dating her because she looks like his dead (ex?) wife. I would have much rather seen how Buck's relationship with Tommy is going.

This show does such a great job at finding the cutest kids, Tyson is such a cutie. Hen and Karen are very committed and loving foster parents, even if they do need to work on boundaries. Although its not their fault that their social worker just keeps leaving out important information, I'm not an expert on the foster care system or how the laws around foster kids works, but you would think that knowing that your foster child found her parents dead bodies and that she has a brother would be useful information, especially for an almost catatonic child. 

[lianau]

32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Maddie really should get some more therapy, its not good for her as a person or as a professional to put her stuff all over every woman she meets who might be a battered wife. She still handled the situation as well as she could but assuming the man who was kidnapping the woman and her baby could have ended really badly. 

 

I still think it would have been better from a storytelling point to have her be wrong when she essentially stalked that woman a couple seasons back. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

It’s nice to see Det. Romero again. Seeing him working with Maddie to figure out a clue about the yellow nightgown that leads to an important breakthrough re the perp is quite satisfying. Maddie and Chim’s listening skill does come in handy.

At the hospital, MJW introduces himself as Amir to Maddie. But his character’s name in IMDb is listed as “Brad”. Weird. At first glance, he could be a survivor from the St. Paul’s fire incident in 2014. But this is 9-1-1, things are usually more complicated than this.

Mara is making a good progress settling in the Wilsons household. She bonds with Denny but still holding back when it comes to Mamas HenRen. The reunion with Tyson is good for her healing process. Hopefully 9-1-1 will leave her alone and not putting her in another traumatic experience.

Eddie’s storyline is the least interesting one. Part of me wants Eddie to kick Marisol to the curb after finding Kim. Edy Ganem really cannot act and all her scenes are cringey. Another part of me wants Christopher to be protected at all cost. Meeting with Shannon’s doppelgänger will be triggering for him. Am conflicted about Kim. 

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Eddie’s storyline is the least interesting one. Part of me wants Eddie to kick Marisol to the curb after finding Kim. Edy Ganem really cannot act and all her scenes are cringey.

I have to agree about this. From the moment they first paired her up with Eddie my reaction has been "Her? Really? Why?" And with every episode it's "Still? Really? Why?" She just does not strike me as a long-term addition to the cast.

[eel2178]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

How did Shannon die, anyway? I honestly can't remember.

She was hit by a hit walking across the street while Eddie was sitting in a restaurant a block or 2 away. They weren't specific about her injuries but implied that it was a high-level spinal cord injury and wasn't survivable even though she was awake and talking at the scene. (I don't know why they wanted us to believe there was no way for her to survive; Christopher Reeve survived an even higher cervical spine injury, for a while at least).

[eel2178]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Maddie really should get some more therapy, its not good for her as a person or as a professional to put her stuff all over every woman she meets who might be a battered wife.

I've worked with many nurses with her personality. Even without having any past trauma in their lives they become overly involved with their patients and don't give a crap about patient confidentiality. It somehow feeds their egos to go around telling what should be a patient's private business to other patients, family members and friends because it somehow makes them feel as though they're indispensable at their jobs.

[marceline]

This episode made me sorry that Eddie survived being shot by that sniper. I don't understand this character anymore. I have the same problem with him that I have with Buck: they both suck at relationships.

Eddie's doing the same thing to Marisol that Buck did to Taylor. Buck waited until Taylor had given up everything then confessed about kissing Lucy. Eddie invited Marisol to move in with him then freaked out about her being a former nun, she moved out and now he's cheating. I don't want him to die - I mean I do but I don't want that for Christopher - but this character has run its course and needs to go.

[Madding crowd]

The part where Eddie was daydreaming about telling Christopher “mama’s home” was just nuts. Christopher is a teenager not five years old. No one would have that kind of reaction. 

[agathapenny]

I needed to vent. Eddie's story is straight-up character assassination. It is that awful.

I admit, Eddie's my favourite, though I love the entire cast and think Peter Krause and Kenneth Choi are both phenomenal and the best actors of the cast.

I was really hoping for Eddie to get a storyline, but let me tell you, this was not it. he's not just being turned into a total cheating jerk, which would be bad enough because it's so out of character, this is more like a mental breakdown. I'm actually hoping for a brain tumour at this point, or something, anything to explain this horrible direction they've taken the character. It just makes no sense and I can't see how they're going to take this story in any kind of direction anyone would want to watch. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion, and I can't stand second-hand embarrassment, so I think I'm out, at least of this story.

What was so wrong with having a man on the show who actually valued fidelity and being in a monogamous relationship? Someone who actually wanted a permanent relationship and wasn't interested in flings? It was, frankly, refreshing.

Now Marisol needs to run as fast as she can, and while she doesn't know it yet, poor Kim needs a restraining order, it's that f-ing creepy.

Sure, Eddie's relationship with Marisol, much like his relationship with Ana, was boring as all get-out. But that could have been solved with, I don't know, writing some kind of actual story for them, if they really didn't want to go with a romantic relationship with Buck. Instead we get this — I don't even know what would be a strong enough word to call it. Do the writers not get that everyone ships Eddie with Buck because Buck is an actually interesting character who's been developed and they've had actual stories together? 

I would way rather have seen bisexual Eddie (though I don't begrudge Buck the story, since they're doing a good job with it).

Last part of my rant: Eddie's relationship with Shannon was no better than his relationships with Ana and Marisol — in fact it was worse. They were a terrible couple who should have gotten that divorce (though Shannon's reasoning was BS). I hated Shannon and thought she was awful. Not because she abandoned Eddie, I could understand that, but because she apparently had zero communication with her son for almost 2 years. That is traumatizing for a kid, for whom you've been the primary parent his whole life. Yes, she was awful, and seemed to be exiting both of their lives yet again so she could find herself when she, thankfully, died. Eddie's delusion about this, after all these years, is yet another horrible aspect to this whole horrible mess.

And not for nothing was Eddie's parallel in this episode a guy who kidnapped two women and a child to feed his delusion that they were his family. Stop turning Eddie into a creepy stalker, writers. 

He will never be able to have a relationship with Kim. The second she sees a photo of Shannon it's over. Eddie could never, ever introduce her to Chris (need I explain why?). And just given what she wore on the date and her hairstyle, she seems in real life to be absolutely nothing like Shannon was, so that's eventually going to clash horribly with Eddie's delusion. 

Desperate measures are already needed to salvage this.

[jcbrown]

14 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Oh yeah, I am so over Eddie drama. He's just not that interesting to focus so much.

I find Eddie to be the most boring character on the show so this dumb plot did nothing for me. I am shocked that the actress is the same one who played his terrible boring wife--the characters looked nothing alike to me. There were things I liked about this episode but nothing involving Eddie was on that list.

[shapeshifter]

Is there any chance Eddie has a brain worm and is just hallucinating?

[MissLucas]

26 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there any chance Eddie has a brain worm and is just hallucinating?

Yeah, that was my thought too, except I was more thinking of a tumor as this seems tv shows go-to for such plots. We haven't seen her interact with anyone else, that's always a red flag.

[possibilities]

36 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

There were things I liked about this episode but nothing involving Eddie was on that list.

I liked when Buck threw food at him.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

The part where Eddie was daydreaming about telling Christopher “mama’s home” was just nuts. Christopher is a teenager not five years old. No one would have that kind of reaction. 

I think that was a flashback to when Eddie and Shannon initially reconciled. I don't know if it was something that aired on the show and we saw or if it was a newly created flashback but I don't think this was an Eddie fantasy but rather it was a real moment they had once upon a time when Chris was much younger.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there any chance Eddie has a brain worm and is just hallucinating?

I did speculate above that I don't think Kim looks as much like Shannon as Eddie thinks she does.  That could be a brain disease or it could be a more serious psychological issue. 

[bilgistic]

Eddie is the actual worst, and the actor went to the Joey Tribbiani School of Fartface Acting. He's terrible. That is all.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, bilgistic said:

Eddie is the actual worst, and the actor went to the Joey Tribbiani School of Fartface Acting. He's terrible. That is all.

But the camera does love his face, and if he's easy to get along with on set, that's job security.

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, agathapenny said:

I was really hoping for Eddie to get a storyline, but let me tell you, this was not it. he's not just being turned into a total cheating jerk, which would be bad enough because it's so out of character, this is more like a mental breakdown. I'm actually hoping for a brain tumour at this point, or something, anything to explain this horrible direction they've taken the character.

This might actually be an interesting plot twist - if Eddie introduces Kim to someone, and suddenly she looks like a completely different person to that character, played by a different actress. At the very least maybe Eddie is projecting an image onto this woman for some reason, at worst maybe he does have something wrong with his brain. 

I also think it might be interesting if it turns out she doesn't exist at all and he's just imagining her.

Otherwise, hiring the same actress who played Shannon to play a new character who reminds Eddie of Shannon is just a little too soap opera. Even for this show.

[possibilities]

It did surprise me when she got more interested and friendly when he told her he had a child, leading her to give keychains to them both.

Maybe Buck will say something about the babysitting he did when he thought Eddie was meeting up with Marisol, and Marisol will realize that date never happened.

I recall interviews at the beginning of the season, where the showrunners said that Ryan wanted to explore his relationship with Marisol this season. And here they are, having him do this cheating storyline already. 

[marceline]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This might actually be an interesting plot twist - if Eddie introduces Kim to someone, and suddenly she looks like a completely different person to that character, played by a different actress.

That would save this story. It's not like having one of our characters hallucinating is an unusual thing. Chimney spent most of the last episode hallucinating. 

I said last week that if there was an Emmy for "Best Crier" JLH would rule that category. I want to call out something I really appreciated in this episode. Maddie's call with the victim was an excellent demonstration of how to get information from someone in a DV situation who can't speak openly on the phone. We've seen that before on this show and Lone Star but it's always good to see and, who knows, maybe it will help someone who needs it.

Edited May 11 by marceline

[possibilities]

I wish real 911 operators were as dedicated as Maddie and her team.

The fire alarm was going off in our apartment building a few years ago and we called 911 and the alarm was so loud that they couldn't hear us, and they just said they can't hear and disconnected. We had to go up the street and knock on someone elses's door to get them to call and report it for us.

And look at what happened when Paul Pelosi called 911 and was trying to tell the operator what was happening and she didn't get it at all.

I guess it's the same with all TV, in that the good guys are better than the average person IRL.

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I wish real 911 operators were as dedicated as Maddie and her team.

The fire alarm was going off in our apartment building a few years ago and we called 911 and the alarm was so loud that they couldn't hear us, and they just said they can't hear and disconnected. We had to go up the street and knock on someone elses's door to get them to call and report it for us.

And look at what happened when Paul Pelosi called 911 and was trying to tell the operator what was happening and she didn't get it at all.

I guess it's the same with all TV, in that the good guys are better than the average person IRL.

I at least know my emergency dispatcher daughter cares as much as anyone on this show about getting it right, however she also works at one of the 2 places in the country where they get paid an upper-middle class salary (they're unionized) whereas my neighbor's daughter here across the country does the same job for minimum wage. 

I do recall decades ago calling 911 and getting put on hold, but I now know that has more to do with budget cuts than the individuals.

 

 

I thought JLH looked better in this episode than she has in years. She should stick with whatever stylist, trainer or regimen she's got now.

The writing for her character was better too. Intense without being crazy pants.

[agathapenny]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:02 PM, iMonrey said:

I have to agree about this. From the moment they first paired her up with Eddie my reaction has been "Her? Really? Why?" And with every episode it's "Still? Really? Why?" She just does not strike me as a long-term addition to the cast.

I thought Marisol was fine. But they absolutely have not treated her like a long-term addition to the cast. What do we know about her? That she's handy and almost became a nun. That's it! This does not a fully developed character make. So yeah, when I see her it's like "really? They're still dating?"

I'm someone who thinks they should go ahead and do Eddie and Buck in a romantic relationship. But if they don't want to for whatever reason they desperately need to make a love interest a fully developed character with story and motivations of their own. This is why Athena and Bobby, and Chim and Maddie work as couples. 

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This might actually be an interesting plot twist - if Eddie introduces Kim to someone, and suddenly she looks like a completely different person to that character, played by a different actress. At the very least maybe Eddie is projecting an image onto this woman for some reason, at worst maybe he does have something wrong with his brain. 

I also think it might be interesting if it turns out she doesn't exist at all and he's just imagining her.

Otherwise, hiring the same actress who played Shannon to play a new character who reminds Eddie of Shannon is just a little too soap opera. Even for this show.

I'm all for the "she doesn't exist at all" explanation, actually. I mean, this plot has already gone full soap opera, complete with look-alike, so why not retcon like a soap opera as well to get out of this mess? I can't believe I'm rooting for a brain tumour, lol. Sadly, I think it's just what it looks like.

I've always been impressed with this show's ability to give the characters feet of clay while still making me love them all to pieces and root for them. I adore Bobby, in spite of the fact that he's responsible for the deaths of more than 100 people in a fire due to his addiction. I love Athena in spite of the fact that she smacked her kid across the face when he pushed too far after his abduction, or when she basically told Bobby she was ashamed to be seen with him due to her own issues of feeling like a failure over her previous marriage, and brought his dead family into it in the most insensitive but relatable way. I love Eddie, even though he was a terrible husband who signed up for the military without even talking to his wife and was initially terrified of being Christopher's father (at least his method of bailing was to do everything he could to provide what his wife and son needed monetarily, and he didn't cut all communication, which is why it's so much easier to forgive him than it is Shannon for her abandonment). 

The problem with this Eddie storyline is that it's just utterly unsympathetic. Who would act in this moronic fashion? It's not an "oh, I wish they hadn't done that, but it's exactly what someone would do". I've also always been impressed that this show usually has the characters act like they're smart. They usually do the intelligent thing, which is way more surprising than it should be in the world of television, but that's a whole other rant. To follow this story we have to believe that Eddie has completely turned his brain off, and not just for a split second of a bad decision, but for hours and days at a time. It would be like if Buck was still floundering around in the closet saying stupid stuff like he did when Eddie and Marisol surprised him and Tommy on their first date. No! They had him act like a damn adult, admit his momentary panic, and move past it.

We already had Eddie go off the rails over Shannon with the whole street fighting/rage storyline. Given what we were shown of their relationship it's impossible to understand why Eddie would still be clinging  to her to the point of obsession, unless there's something really wrong with his brain.

I think it's rewriting the character (assassination) in a major way to suddenly have him string two women along when that's not who he fundamentally is, and he's seriously acting like a creepy villain in a movie of the week and it's bizarre, not interesting. I honestly don't know how Eddie could come back from this and still be a likeable character. It's not more understandable because she looks just like Shannon, it's more disturbing.

I thought it was so refreshing for a father to be concerned that his son was treating girls badly when Chris was stringing a bunch of girls along, and he had Buck talk to the kid about it. That was a mere few episodes ago where Eddie explicitly expressed why this is wrong (note: date a bunch of girls or boys at a time, no problem, but don't lie to them) and that he doesn't get this kind of behaviour. And now we get this. It's just too hard to believe that Eddie is that emotionally oblivious not to see the parallel, or at least, not care, because, um, she looks exactly like his dead wife? What? I just can't get over how unbelievably creepy that is, picking up this unsuspecting woman because she's a dead ringer for your dead wife, and taking her out while, let's face it, pretending it's her.

I wish I thought the writers and those in charge had given it as much thought as I apparently have. This just hit me as a such a weird direction for the show to go.

Oh well, I'll keep watching for the disasters and rescues, which is really my favourite part.

 

 

[agathapenny]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:04 PM, eel2178 said:

She was hit by a hit walking across the street while Eddie was sitting in a restaurant a block or 2 away. They weren't specific about her injuries but implied that it was a high-level spinal cord injury and wasn't survivable even though she was awake and talking at the scene. (I don't know why they wanted us to believe there was no way for her to survive; Christopher Reeve survived an even higher cervical spine injury, for a while at least).

Just a small nit pick: Eddie wasn't sitting in a restaurant nearby, the 118 was called to the scene of Shannon's accident, not knowing it was her. Eddie rode with her in the ambulance and was there when she died.

[kwnyc]

Maybe they are planning to write Eddie out...this kind of character assassination usually means someone is on their way out.

Or, Eddie could be sabotaging every relationship he's had with a woman because he really wants to be with a man.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

Maybe they are planning to write Eddie out...this kind of character assassination usually means someone is on their way out.

Or, Eddie could be sabotaging every relationship he's had with a woman because he really wants to be with a man.

Either of these scenarios are strong possibilities based upon what we were shown. 

Maybe Buck's new relationship was just to pave the way for an eventual Eddie/Buck pairing in what would appear to be the most fan service-y fan service plot I've ever heard of. 
Ooo. Maybe the woman Eddie seems to be hallucinating is a man?

[possibilities]

Maybe they wanted to write a Buck-Eddie pairing and Ryan said no, so they are writing him the most cringy straight plots they can think of, as punishment.

[agathapenny]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe they wanted to write a Buck-Eddie pairing and Ryan said no, so they are writing him the most cringy straight plots they can think of, as punishment.

I have to say, I wondered about this. I think it's crystal clear that when they started writing the Tommy story it was supposed to be Tommy and Eddie who got into a relationship. Tommy was clearly courting Eddie with dates meant to impress (flying to Vegas for a fight). The two were given everything in common from martial arts to basketball. Chris thinks he's cool. Eddie even had dialogue to the effect that he just clicked with Tommy, and isn't it wonderful when that happens.

And Buck's story of realization was going to be his jealousy of Eddie and Tommy. So Eddie and Tommy were going to have a short relationship, just long enough for Eddie to admit his bi side, then Buck and Eddie were going to realize they were really into each other.

It could just be that Buck's character is more of a favourite, so they decided to give him the good story instead. But if they are ever going to do Buck/Eddie they need to have Eddie realize he's bi as well, and nothing about the horrific story they've saddled him with leads to that realization. Whereas the the original bi story with Eddie easily leads both Buck and Eddie to a realization.

Anyway, I've never seen anything to suggest Guzman turned down a bi storyline, or is in any way homophobic, but if he did, he's an idiot of the first order. Because everyone I've seen hates his current story for very good reason (it's awful), and makes his character unlikeable and moving backwards.

Quote

5 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Maybe they are planning to write Eddie out...this kind of character assassination usually means someone is on their way out.

Or, Eddie could be sabotaging every relationship he's had with a woman because he really wants to be with a man.

I sincerely hope they don't get rid of Eddie — he's my favourite. That's the kind of thing that would make me quit the show entirely.

I hope the second paragraph is true and we get that story.

 

[agathapenny]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Buck's new relationship was just to pave the way for an eventual Eddie/Buck pairing in what would appear to be the most fan service-y fan service plot I've ever heard of. 

Like I said above, I think it was supposed to be Eddie's new relationship leading to a Buck/Eddie pairing, maybe even as soon as the end of this season. But with the switcheroo I think it's much less likely (unfortunately).

Normally I'd say it's unlikely that a network would follow the fans in this way, but I think with the change in network it's actually really likely that was the plan at some point. What better way for ABC to endear themselves to the 911 fans than by putting together a pairing I'm sure they knew was popular with a good portion of the fanbase? I'm not sure why that plan seems to have changed — to the extreme detriment of Eddie. Buck's still golden.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, agathapenny said:

I think it's crystal clear that when they started writing the Tommy story it was supposed to be Tommy and Eddie who got into a relationship.

Everything about the episode that demonstrated what Tommy and Eddie had in common was told from the POV of Buck. The show didn't go along with Eddie & Tommy on their adventures; it stayed with the guy left behind, not understanding his jealousy. So I think the writing of the story has always supported this being Buck's journey and not a late swap where they kept a script and swapped who kissed. The only hint that it might have been Eddie is something the actor who plays Tommy said but he might have been confused.  BiBuck was something they wanted to tell years ago but had it nixed. 

As for Guzman, I don't think he'd refuse to do the story because he and Oliver seem to have fun with it but it's also possible he doesn't see his character as anything other than straight. 

As for his story, I do get why people don't love it but I'm going to wait to see it play out.  There has been speculation that Eddie's stuck in a dating pattern of trying to find a maternal figure for Christopher which is why he's always hitting a dead end. 

Quote

Normally I'd say it's unlikely that a network would follow the fans in this way, but I think with the change in network it's actually really likely that was the plan at some point. What better way for ABC to endear themselves to the 911 fans than by putting together a pairing I'm sure they knew was popular with a good portion of the fanbase? I'm not sure why that plan seems to have changed — to the extreme detriment of Eddie.

I do not think this was the plan. Perhaps I'm watching TV through an old-school lens, but I am still not as convinced as other fans are that they're going to have two straight-identified male main characters go through a later-in-life queer awakening just so they can put them together on a network show about first responders.  I'm not even convinced HBO would take that step on a show written by Andrew Haigh. As organic and lovely as the Buck and Eddie friendship is, I don't know how they'd organically make that happen as anything other than fan service.

And I don't necessarily hate fan service for ships but most other ships don't need as much work to develop a romance as would be needed here. 

 

Edited May 13 by Irlandesa

[agathapenny]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Everything about the episode that demonstrated what Tommy and Eddie had in common was told from the POV of Buck. The show didn't go along with Eddie & Tommy on their adventures; it stayed with the guy left behind, not understanding his jealousy. So I think the writing of the story has always supported this being Buck's journey and not a late swap where they kept a script and swapped who kissed. The only hint that it might have been Eddie is something the actor who plays Tommy said but he might have been confused.  BiBuck was something they wanted to tell years ago but had it nixed. 

As for Guzman, I don't think he'd refuse to do the story because he and Oliver seem to have fun with it but it's also possible he doesn't see his character as anything other than straight. 

As for his story, I do get why people don't love it but I'm going to wait to see it play out.  There has been speculation that Eddie's stuck in a dating pattern of trying to find a maternal figure for Christopher which is why he's always hitting a dead end. 

I do not think this was the plan. Perhaps I'm watching TV through an old-school lens, but I am still not as convinced as other fans are that they're going to have two straight-identified male main characters go through a later-in-life queer awakening just so they can put them together on a network show about first responders.  I'm not even convinced HBO would take that step on a show written by Andrew Haigh. As organic and lovely as the Buck and Eddie friendship is, I don't know how they'd organically make that happen as anything other than fan service.

And I don't necessarily hate fan service for ships but most other ships don't need as much work to develop a romance as would be needed here. 

 

You make a good point about following Eddie and Tommy's relationship from Buck's perspective, but I don't know. I just think it make so much sense as Eddie's story. BiBuck makes perfect sense to me, too, but this particular story seemed tailor made for Eddie.

The fact that both of them could make sense to me as bi is why I think it's even a possibility. Plus the fact that it would be ABC's way of putting their stamp on the show. Otherwise, I totally agree it seems very unlikely from a historical TV perspective to make both your main hunky males into each other (though frankly I'm convinced Carlos/TK on the spinoff is a direct result of the popularity of the Buck/Eddie ship).

Anyhow, I'm not diehard that Eddie has to be with Buck (I have fan fiction for that), but as my favourite character I do want Eddie not to be stuck in this horrible storyline that makes his character creepy and unlikeable. That's where my main objection lies. I just want to see him have a good story, with or without a Buck romance. And right now, his character is being assassinated in the worst way.

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

As organic and lovely as the Buck and Eddie friendship is, I don't know how they'd organically make that happen as anything other than fan service.

But isn't Buck and Tommy just as much fan service? Both Buck and Eddie have been firmly established as hetero for six seasons (or, in Eddie's case, whenever he started on the show). Yet fans have been talking about the chemistry they seem to have with each other for years. To make just one of them bi seems kind of like half-assing it. 

I think at the very least the show considered Buck and Eddie and for whatever reason pulled back a little.

[possibilities]

How old are Buck and Eddie? In real life, people come out in their 30s, for sure. Even later. Even much later. If you've spent any time in the community (I mean among LGBTQ folks), this is not even a little bit unusual. It's only very straight people who can't imagine it being plausible.

Either way, the current Eddie story is unpleasant.

 

[agathapenny]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

How old are Buck and Eddie? In real life, people come out in their 30s, for sure. Even later. Even much later. If you've spent any time in the community (I mean among LGBTQ folks), this is not even a little bit unusual. It's only very straight people who can't imagine it being plausible.

Either way, the current Eddie story is unpleasant.

 

Yeah, I don't find that at all unrealistic. Even on this very show we had Athena's husband Michael just figuring out he is completely gay.

Edited May 14 by agathapenny

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But isn't Buck and Tommy just as much fan service?

Buck and Tommy specifically? I don't think so. Before they happened, I don't think anyone was calling for the guy from Season 2 to come and sweep Buck off of his feet.

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

To make just one of them bi seems kind of like half-assing it. 

I think it's only half-assed if one views Buck's bisexual journey through the lens of it only being worth it if he ends up with Eddie. I don't think the writers see it that way.  I think they're telling the bi Buck story because it makes sense for the character. There have been hints since early on.  Buck is the one who TK thought was hitting on him.  Buck is the one who has had significant moments with LGBTQ+ rescues.  Buck is the one who Josh joked Maddie was trying to set him up with. 

I don't know if those were intentional or not but they ended up laying a character foundation for this to happen independent of his relationship with Eddie.

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

How old are Buck and Eddie? In real life, people come out in their 30s, for sure.

And that's what I love about Buck's story.  I can't remember ever seeing a story on TV where a male character not only comes out but realizes he's queer later in life. 

But in the context of the show, doing it with both Eddie and Buck would mean 60% of the 5 person fire team is gay or identifies as queer, including 50% of the men and it'd be the third later-in-life coming out story. 

So it's not the coming out later in life that I find hard to understand.  The thing I have a hard time believing to be more likely than not is hitting the above percentages on a network show.

But if they think they can pull it off, I'll watch.

 

 

[possibilities]

I think I just live in a place where being LGBTQ is totally normalized. I've been in random groups that turned out to have a minority of straight people. But I agree it's unusual for a network show.

Edited May 14 by possibilities

[DearEvette]

13 hours ago, agathapenny said:

Yeah, I don't find that at all unrealistic. Even on this very show we had Athena's husband Michael just figuring out he is completely gay

I am not so sure that Michael's was a 'just figuring out' though.  My read was that he was always gay and always knew it but was deeply closeted even to himself.  When he came out to the kids he said 'This is something I have been struggling with my whole life" and during a fight with Athena implied that she always knew but ignored it.

In any event, I like that the show explores the variety of ways in which LGBTQ expresses itself.  You have Hen who is a lesbian and has, iirc, always been out. Josh who is a gay male who, like Hen, has been out.  Michael who always knew but kept it hidden and finally came out even though it was messy.  And Buck who is Bi and just realized it. Also interesting because he had always been coded as a hypersexual ladies man.  They are all different in a lot of ways so the show is unconsciously showcasing there is no single way to 'look' gay (or bi).

[eel2178]

17 hours ago, agathapenny said:

 Even on this very show we had Athena's husband Michael just figuring out he is completely gay.

I thought he and Athena both knew he was gay before they decided to get married. For both of them, the purpose of the marriage was to have a family and "keep up appearances." 

[Lady Calypso]

I am very disappointed in the Eddie stuff this season thus far. His character has been a total mess. Not just this episode, but the Nun Marisol plot from a couple of episodes ago, it feels very....off for Eddie. Who, I get, he's bottled feelings up constantly but we're on round three of his Shannon trauma and it feels like he's going in circles. There needs to be progress on that end at some point. 

Him cheating on Marisol with Kim sucks. He's intentionally making a decision that affects more than his life. I really think the only way this can end decently is Eddie being called out and has to face real consequences. Also, these cheating storylines have always ended with the cheater getting away with it, for the most part. I need this one to end differently.

Also, Marisol sucks. Out of the two female characters that interacted with Eddie last season, they went with the woman whose brother was so stupid, he soundproofed himself in her attic and the one who can't cry, over the actually interesting actress who Eddie shared a moment with on the beach. Still disappointed by that.

It does feel like this doppelganger plot would have been more useful about two seasons ago.

Maddie/Athena teaming up was fun. I like when the show mixes up the pairings. I liked Maddie/Chimney's conversation. They got more to do here than their wedding episode.

Amir seems like an interesting character. I assume he was part of the fire that Bobby accidentally started that killed 148 people. 

 

[Attatude]

On 5/14/2024 at 12:01 PM, eel2178 said:

I thought he and Athena both knew he was gay before they decided to get married. For both of them, the purpose of the marriage was to have a family and "keep up appearances." 

Yes they both knew and then he broke their arrangement by deciding he couldn’t live a lie anymore.  It was a good story  and well written, unlike the Buck story which seems completely manufactured to change the direction of his character.  And I disagree a majority of the fan base supports it.  I was reading a lot of comments on various articles about the first kiss and one supporter said “I don’t watch the show but good for them.” If people are demanding stories like this the least they can do is watch it.  I’m on another posting site and people are very blunt about their opinions against Buck being bi.  I’m mild in comparison.  They are all there for the rescue action and think it’s a huge distraction from the purpose of the show.  They have all watched it since day 1.  They aren’t anti gay just anti Buck.  So the fan base is not all in favor, just a portion of them.  

Why must they always make Eddie so commitment phobic?  He should stop dating anyone until Christopher grows up and leaves him.  He’s pathetic.  I could not believe it was the same actress. She didn’t even resemble his dead wife.