Baby Reindeer - General Discussion

[SunnyBeBe]

Anyone watching?  I am halfway through. Very interesting to me.  

[CM-CrispMtAir]

Quote

When a struggling comedian shows one act of kindness to a vulnerable woman, it sparks a suffocating obsession which threatens to wreck both their lives. Inspired by the true story of comedian Richard Gadd (who plays the lead role of Danny) and deals with the experience of being stalked.

Premiered April 11, 2024

[ichbin]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:32 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Anyone watching?  I am halfway through. Very interesting to me.  

I'm about two or three in so far. She is scary and he's essentially an enabler regardless if he felt sorry for her or not.  Jessica Gunning is doing a really good job with the role. I'm really curious about the real "Martha".  I've read that Gadd said he wrote her with so many differences that the real "Martha" probably wouldn't recognize herself. 

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, ichbin said:

I'm about two or three in so far. She is scary and he's essentially an enabler regardless if he felt sorry for her or not.  Jessica Gunning is doing a really good job with the role. I'm really curious about the real "Martha".  I've read that Gadd said he wrote her with so many differences that the real "Martha" probably wouldn't recognize herself. 

This is not that true, the real Martha has been identified. She is still active on facebook and she is not that different. Even the casting is close to what she looks like.

[Maire]

This is really original and well done but so upsetting/unsettling. I feel like  I really can't recommend it to people without a warning. Definitely worth watching.

[ichbin]

51 minutes ago, Harvey said:

This is not that true, the real Martha has been identified. She is still active on facebook and she is not that different. Even the casting is close to what she looks like.

Interesting.  

I based my comment from this quote from Gadd, "I honestly couldn’t speak as to whether she would watch it. Her reactions to things varied so much that I almost couldn’t predict how she’d react to anything. She was quite an idiosyncratic person. We’ve gone to such great lengths to disguise her to the point that I don’t think she would recognize herself. What’s been borrowed is an emotional truth, not a fact-by-fact profile of someone," he said." 

[Harvey]

1 minute ago, ichbin said:

Interesting.  

I based my comment from this quote from Gadd, "I honestly couldn’t speak as to whether she would watch it. Her reactions to things varied so much that I almost couldn’t predict how she’d react to anything. She was quite an idiosyncratic person. We’ve gone to such great lengths to disguise her to the point that I don’t think she would recognize herself. What’s been borrowed is an emotional truth, not a fact-by-fact profile of someone," he said." 

Yeah it is interesting because I ready that interview yesterday and then it turned out he didn't change that much. I think in this case we have to take into account that PR people probably told him what to say in interviews.

[ichbin]

9 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Yeah it is interesting because I ready that interview yesterday and then it turned out he didn't change that much. I think in this case we have to take into account that PR people probably told him what to say in interviews.

I haven't found any reports indicating that the identity of the real life stalker has actually been confirmed to date.  There are obviously people who know but as far as the general public goes so far it's a "Who Knows?" situation as it appears to be speculation only at the moment.

 

[Moot Smoothie]

I'm down to final 2 episodes to go and finding Donny dishonest, lazy, selfish and unattractive in every sense of the word and just incredibly unlikeable.  What a damp, spineless waste of skin.  I just can't believe that anyone could find this morose sailcat sexually beguiling or in any degree loveable but here he is with ex-girlfriend infinitely out of his league and new love interest who seems to have personality, education and brains until going into deep depression because he can't perform sexually...nah, nope it's just not believable that even the most mentally ill of deranged stalkers wouldn't have lost interest by week 2.

Martha actor is incredible and can make me want to slap her then hug her in just a few words but no level of acting can make that attraction ring true, imo.

[SkateQueen]

I binge-watched this show  yesterday.  Donny may be a bit of a sad-sack, but I find he did have some redeeming qualities.  The very end is a bit of a shocker and reveals some more of his humanity in why he was originally drawn to Martha as someone who needed sympathy from the start.  I found it compelling.  

[ichbin]

3 hours ago, Moot Smoothie said:

I'm down to final 2 episodes to go and finding Donny dishonest, lazy, selfish and unattractive in every sense of the word and just incredibly unlikeable.  What a damp, spineless waste of skin.  I just can't believe that anyone could find this morose sailcat sexually beguiling or in any degree loveable but here he is with ex-girlfriend infinitely out of his league and new love interest who seems to have personality, education and brains until going into deep depression because he can't perform sexually...nah, nope it's just not believable that even the most mentally ill of deranged stalkers wouldn't have lost interest by week 2.

I finished watching all the episodes today and I've been all over the place in how I feel about Donny. The same holds true for Martha as well, but much more him. 

Spoiler

I just about lost it when he goes back to see Darrien again and has a lovely little chat.  

Donny and Martha  were each trains speeding on the wrong tracks but headed for a massive collision.

 

Edited April 21 by ichbin

[Morgalisa]

I binged this today.  I found myself still worrying about Donny after I finished watching it.  He obviously was not in a good place mentally from the very beginning and then spiraled after the rape.  I wonder if he ever got himself sorted.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I liked the first half of the series more than the second.  The day spent with his parents was good, but other than that…..idk.  Not my favorite.  
 

Can someone explain to me why Donny sought out a trans woman?  He said it was to keep his privacy…..I don’t get it.  
 

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

People online found the real Martha. They’ll find the real Darren soon. 😱

When I first heard about this show, I thought it has a silly title. Then comes the hypes, some people even label it as “masterpiece”. Is it though?

The main protagonist is an unstable man suffers from self-loathing, struggling with the feeling of unworthiness. To be honest, I couldn’t see him as a pure victim in the situations he puts himself in. Certain things are avoidable if he makes different decisions and takes control of the situations.

Jessica Gunning did a great job in not making Martha a one-note, cliché stalker.

After finishing all 7 episodes, I feel cheated. I feel like the author has manipulated me to believe he’s the victim of life circumstances. He wants me to feel bad for him. It feels manipulative especially with the lack of personal growth in the end. There’s no redemption arc. Donny is back living with Keeley’s mom, Liz. I can never understand why Richard Gadd wants to relive his traumas. I hope he’s getting the help he truly needs.

On a personal note, one thing that I really struggle with this show is seeing Martha misspelling words. It makes me itchy because I cannot correct them! 😫

 

Send from my iPhoen

[Moot Smoothie]

9 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

People online found the real Martha. They’ll find the real Darren soon. 😱

When I first heard about this show, I thought it has a silly title. Then comes the hypes, some people even label it as “masterpiece”. Is it though?

The main protagonist is an unstable man suffers from self-loathing, struggling with the feeling of unworthiness. To be honest, I couldn’t see him as a pure victim in the situations he puts himself in. Certain things are avoidable if he makes different decisions and takes control of the situations.

Jessica Gunning did a great job in not making Martha a one-note, cliché stalker.

After finishing all 7 episodes, I feel cheated. I feel like the author has manipulated me to believe he’s the victim of life circumstances. He wants me to feel bad for him. It feels manipulative especially with the lack of personal growth in the end. There’s no redemption arc. Donny is back living with Keeley’s mom, Liz. I can never understand why Richard Gadd wants to relive his traumas. I hope he’s getting the help he truly needs.

On a personal note, one thing that I really struggle with this show is seeing Martha misspelling words. It makes me itchy because I cannot correct them! 😫

 

Send from my iPhoen

Wow!  I can't agree with this whole post more.  The true victims, imo, were Liz, Keely and his parents.   He not only refused to take action to shield them from abuse they only got because of him but acted hurt and put-upon when it was suggested he should🤦

I was bummed to see Keely and Liz still taking responsibility for him after everything; lovely people, they both deserve relationships where caring and support are reciprocated.

 

[sadie]

10 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

After finishing all 7 episodes, I feel cheated. I feel like the author has manipulated me to believe he’s the victim of life circumstances. He wants me to feel bad for him. It feels manipulative especially with the lack of personal growth in the end. There’s no redemption arc. Donny is back living with Keeley’s mom, Liz. I can never understand why Richard Gadd wants to relive his traumas. I hope he’s getting the help he truly needs.

This this this! I kept waiting for all this to impact him to change, nope. The whole last ep with him listening to all the messages over and over. Ugh. So really this is about his mental illness, and not Martha’s. He just did too many stupid self destructive things, he followed her home and peered in her window - WHAT? Stuff like that just really lost me. I know we are to assume his rape just messed him up, of course it did, but DO something, get counseling, find a support group. Don’t latch onto an obviously mentally ill woman and then make bad choice after bad choice. I’m not victim blaming here but he did encourage Martha to some extent, he admits it in the last episode because he liked the attention. I just dont know how I feel about this show as a whole? 

[ctmd]

I absolutely LOVED this series. I work in mental health, and think Donny's behaviors were very realistic for someone who's had trauma together with feelings of invalidation. All the things that Teri said rang true: part of him enjoyed the attention of being stalked, part of him needed the drama, part of him was a shit human being that didn't see her (Teri) as a full woman, and didn't respect her need to no longer be closeted and afraid. Even Donny going back to the "original" abuser (as far as we know), isn't crazy. maybe he thought he was going to tell him off and get closure, and then found the guy charming and validating, "and this time will be different." I also think people like Darien don't always know they're even being abusive in situations like these. Donny kept going back, kept acting cheerful, gave no clear signs, etc. We know what we know bc we saw Donny's perspective. But Darian was also on drugs with Donny while doing these things. not "excusing" his behavior, I'm just saying that i enjoyed just how complex this show made every character. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

I found this show to be incredibly compelling but it also made me wildly uncomfortable. Knowing it was based on a really messed up true story made me feel like a voyeur. Had the writer/star not been the actual person this all happened to, I would have found it really gross and exploitative, but I give him a lot of credit for putting this all out there. Having said that, I hope that he is getting the help that he needs because in many ways, he is as messed up as "Martha." 

[ctmd]

1 hour ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

Knowing it was based on a really messed up true story made me feel like a voyeur. Had the writer/star not been the actual person this all happened to, I would have found it really gross and exploitative

I felt similarly re: the voyeuristic quality when I learned it happened to the actor, who had also written the series. I understand how his on-stage breakdown happened, followed by interviews with him about the experience. I even understand the idea of the 1-man show as perhaps a learning/educational example for people (not sure I'm capturing my thought well here). But to decide that you yourself not only want to write what happened to you, but also want to re-enact it and have everyone in the world experience that with you- or at the least watch you essentially experience being traumatized- Well there's something exhibitionist about that there, isn't there?Like I've experienced some mild trauma- I've never felt the need to have people LIVE that with me, to watch me feel traumatized. 

[Madding crowd]

I thought it was fascinating but also very difficult to watch. I don’t agree that a stalker wouldn’t pick Donny; stalkers can pick anyone that pays them the least bit of attention. Donny seemed to be mentally unstable himself and I hope he got help and is in a better place. I do think it was brave of him to show the world that he was partially responsible for the way the stalking played out. I do wonder if everything in the movie was true or if parts were changed for dramatic reasons.

[BetyBee]

I was crying when Donny's Dad admitted as much as he could about his own abuse. I have to wonder if he somehow conveyed his own self loathing to Donny as he was growing up. It's as if, without meaning to, he perpetuated Donny's low self esteem, making Donny vulnerable when Martha and Darrien showed up in his life. I found this story very compelling and disturbing. 

[sereion]

I agree this was a very good series, but it was tough to watch; I wish Netflix would've displayed a trigger warning in the beginning of each episode.  Donny was exhausting, but given his failing comedian career; the trauma of being violated; in addition to dealing with an emotionally unavailable father and Martha, I showed him some grace. Not that I'm excusing his poor judgment and him making terrible choices, but I do think it was the makings of the person he's become. 

I hope do he's in therapy. 

 

The actress who played Martha, did an amazing job portraying her as sympathetic character, I see why Donny felt obligated to  continue to contact her and listen to her recording after she was sentenced; especially when she explained origin of the "Baby Reindeer" nickname. 

 

[xls]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:09 PM, Moot Smoothie said:

I'm down to final 2 episodes to go and finding Donny dishonest, lazy, selfish and unattractive in every sense of the word and just incredibly unlikeable.  What a damp, spineless waste of skin.  I just can't believe that anyone could find this morose sailcat sexually beguiling or in any degree loveable but here he is with ex-girlfriend infinitely out of his league and new love interest who seems to have personality, education and brains until going into deep depression because he can't perform sexually...nah, nope it's just not believable that even the most mentally ill of deranged stalkers wouldn't have lost interest by week 2.

THANK YOU everything I wanted to say! Another Saltburn type, hot mess, waste of viewing time; I don't know what anyone sees in this. Just cringe.🙄

 

[pasdetrois]

I watched the first two episodes and appreciated? enjoyed? them. Very uncomfortable subject yet I like seeing the deep dive into the psychology of this dangerous phenomenon. Great acting.

[Ottis]

On 4/20/2024 at 3:27 PM, Harvey said:

Yeah it is interesting because I ready that interview yesterday and then it turned out he didn't change that much. I think in this case we have to take into account that PR people probably told him what to say in interviews.

Mostly to avoid a lawsuit. I mean, of course he would say the TV character is so different as to be unrecognizable, even if it is exactly like the real person.

I know nothing about the real life story. I am 3 eps in and find myself frustrated by Donny, who seems to make poor choices at every turn - not only with Martha, but with the woman he dated and even his ex. If you make enough poor choices, things go wrong.

Not sure what the point of BR is. It's not a study in psychology. It's not a story of a powerless victim. It's just a story that I can't imagine going anywhere except jail or death.

ADD: Watched a bit more. Donny is supposed to be 30 years younger than Darrien? I thought they were almost the same age!

 

Edited April 26 by Ottis

[gesundheit]

On 4/22/2024 at 1:22 PM, ctmd said:

I absolutely LOVED this series. I work in mental health, and think Donny's behaviors were very realistic for someone who's had trauma together with feelings of invalidation. All the things that Teri said rang true: part of him enjoyed the attention of being stalked, part of him needed the drama, part of him was a shit human being that didn't see her (Teri) as a full woman, and didn't respect her need to no longer be closeted and afraid. Even Donny going back to the "original" abuser (as far as we know), isn't crazy. maybe he thought he was going to tell him off and get closure, and then found the guy charming and validating, "and this time will be different." I also think people like Darien don't always know they're even being abusive in situations like these. Donny kept going back, kept acting cheerful, gave no clear signs, etc. We know what we know bc we saw Donny's perspective. But Darian was also on drugs with Donny while doing these things. not "excusing" his behavior, I'm just saying that i enjoyed just how complex this show made every character. 

Agreed. I thought this was phenomenal, and demonstrating Donny's infuriating behavior was the whole point. I'm so relieved they never gave him some big fake heroic moment to make him finally "likable," and even that they showed how far from healing he was, even in the end. Very honest.

On 4/22/2024 at 9:40 PM, Madding crowd said:

I thought it was fascinating but also very difficult to watch. I don’t agree that a stalker wouldn’t pick Donny; stalkers can pick anyone that pays them the least bit of attention. 

Yes, I thought they did a great job illustrating why she "picked" Donny. (And of course at the same time, it's wrong-headed to assume that abusers can only pick someone understandably appealing. That's not how these fixations work!)

On 4/23/2024 at 4:50 PM, sereion said:

I agree this was a very good series, but it was tough to watch; I wish Netflix would've displayed a trigger warning in the beginning of each episode.  Donny was exhausting, but given his failing comedian career; the trauma of being violated; in addition to dealing with an emotionally unavailable father and Martha, I showed him some grace. Not that I'm excusing his poor judgment and him making terrible choices, but I do think it was the makings of the person he's become. 

I hope do he's in therapy. 

 

The actress who played Martha, did an amazing job portraying her as sympathetic character, I see why Donny felt obligated to  continue to contact her and listen to her recording after she was sentenced; especially when she explained origin of the "Baby Reindeer" nickname. 

Me too -- obviously Donny is light years from turning into a Martha, but after all his own hurtful, damaging behavior he had the compassion to understand the trauma that could've led someone else to it as well.

 

Possibly my favorite series of 2024 so far.

[pasdetrois]

As I rarely do, I stayed up late to finish the series (an afternoon nap was partly to blame). Very well done.

Spoiler

They didn't shove Donny's abuse history, nor his sexual preference, into frame immediately, and they took time to explain why he is the way he is. The grooming-of-a-young-adult needs to be told more often. He has a compulsive need to re-live his trauma, unable to break away completely from its remnants.

Very realistic yet annoying, and I could see some of my own acquaintances' repetitive, destructive behaviors in Donny.

Quote

I'm so relieved they never gave him some big fake heroic moment to make him finally "likable," and even that they showed how far from healing he was, even in the end. Very honest.

In real life, some mental health patients do not heal, especially trauma survivors. They can be dangerous, or obnoxious, or their behaviors frustrate us...they might also be kind, funny, smart and productive.  20 people can tell them to get therapy, and instead they feel the compulsion to continue to act out. They are not like typical TV characters with mental illness who suffer, get therapy, perhaps a loving supportive partner, and live happily and produtively thereafter. This series is not about those characters.

The two lead actors are phenomenal; the on-stage monologue was fantastic.

Shout out to this moment: "Good luck with the transsexual!" A rare sweet, comedic moment.

One of the best series I've seen this year.

Edited April 27 by pasdetrois

[Moot Smoothie]

On 4/24/2024 at 6:52 PM, xls said:

THANK YOU everything I wanted to say! Another Saltburn type, hot mess, waste of viewing time; I don't know what anyone sees in this. Just cringe.🙄

 

I can see the interest in watching if for nothing beyond Jessica Gunning's outstanding portrayal of Martha.  It is Donny that frustrated and then repelled.

As the series went on I saw someone I deeply dislike because I don't think he had any concern for anyone beyond himself.  He didn't actually care about Martha and her mental illness, he fed it and then commercialized it.  He sure didn't show any consolation for Teri when he minimized her reaction to the situation by reminding her who, and only who, was really the victim in the story. 

Even the well-being of his parents, shown to be almost impossibly perfectly loving and supporting, wasn't what got him racing to their home: it was what she might reveal to them about him. 

I didn't like the character, who in this case, weirdly IS the real person and everything I've read since about Richard Gadd and this whole show/story has only reinforced that dislike and added to it a really strong distrust of him. 

 

And, yes, good grief- portraying himself as a twenty-something while looking 40ish just took me out of the Darrian scenes.  Think a much older actor would have been a bit more convincing.

[xls]

Hey did he ever say to the woman "Just leave me alone, okay? I dont want to be friends with you.  Leave me alone," 

[SunnyBeBe]

There’s an article 

Spoiler

about the real life  Martha on Daily Mail site and how she harassed family members. There are photos too.  I just hate to provide a link for that place.

 

[Irlandesa]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:43 AM, Moot Smoothie said:

He didn't actually care about Martha and her mental illness, he fed it and then commercialized it.

Is a victim supposed to care about their stalker's mental illness?  I think of all people they should get a free pass on not giving a damn.  This woman has had multiple warnings her behavior would cause her trouble, including going to jail, and yet she didn't seem to try to do anything to not be a stalker. 

She was an effective stalker because she knew how to manipulate him.  He developed a rapport with her while she seemed innocent.  She validated him.  And whenever he tried to pull back, she brought out the waterworks, which made him feel bad for the person he initially liked.  Making things complicated and messy is how abusers get away with what they do. 

The same can be said for his experience with the older comedian. He was so desperate to be taken under the wing of a kingmaker, knowing how important luck can be in the business, that he was willing to make excuses for the guy's motives. 

And yes, there were definitely unlikable things about Donny but I don't think it means he deserved to be stalked and raped.  He did deserve to be dumped and I'm glad for Teri she did that for herself.

The mix of everything is why I liked this series.  I think it's important to be reminded that "perfect" victims are rare.  As a species, we tend to want to identify things a victim did 'wrong' that we would "never" do to soothe ourselves into believing we couldn't be victimized.  In reality, abusers like victims who are hard to believe or who they can convince wouldn't be believed. 

On 4/21/2024 at 9:02 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone explain to me why Donny sought out a trans woman?  He said it was to keep his privacy…..I don’t get it.

I don't think he sought out a trans woman for privacy.  I think he said he changed his name and his profession on the dating site to maintain his privacy.  The reality is that he was attracted to trans women but likely felt shame around it in the same way he was feeling shame about his sexuality in general at the time.

 

[gesundheit]

 

 

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Is a victim supposed to care about their stalker's mental illness?  I think of all people they should get a free pass on not giving a damn.  This woman has had multiple warnings her behavior would cause her trouble, including going to jail, and yet she didn't seem to try to do anything to not be a stalker. 

She was an effective stalker because she knew how to manipulate him.  He developed a rapport with her while she seemed innocent.  She validated him.  And whenever he tried to pull back, she brought out the waterworks, which made him feel bad for the person he initially liked.  Making things complicated and messy is how abusers get away with what they do. 

 

100%. Also I think he shows remarkable compassion (that no victim is under any obligation to show!) for her simply in presenting her as a character we can care about, despite everything. Shows a lot of depth and complexity to create a story about your own victimhood in which you're basically the least sympathetic character. Obviously that's all very murky since we're not separating story from actuality (which is unfortunately the problem with billing this as true), but this story shows tremendous grace and humility on his part.

But if he had shown zero compassion for his abuser-stalker, it would've been fine!

23 hours ago, xls said:

Hey did he ever say to the woman "Just leave me alone, okay? I dont want to be friends with you.  Leave me alone," 

Yes, in no uncertain terms. Didn't stop her. Brought the police into it. Didn't stop her.

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

There’s an article 

  Hide contents

about the real life  Martha on Daily Mail site and how she harassed family members. There are photos too.  I just hate to provide a link for that place.

 

Yeah, I was trying very hard to avoid any of the coverage of the real-life part of it, but based on her comments the writing is very fair. (e.g., the way she immediately jumps to insulting an actress's physical appearance, brags about her connections, etc.)

[Ottis]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:43 AM, Moot Smoothie said:

I can see the interest in watching if for nothing beyond Jessica Gunning's outstanding portrayal of Martha.  It is Donny that frustrated and then repelled.

I'm about ready to call bullshit on this entire project, and I've only finished 5 episodes. In the fifth one, Donny goes on about how panicked and nervous he was not hearing anything from Martha ... then gets a call from his mom on a Sunday night and ... doesn't answer. 

Now, someone with half a brain might imagine that silence from Martha might translate into her going after others. I mean, he just described himself as panicked, right?  Not panicked enough to answer the phone.

Just like he isn't motivated enough to write a timeline for the police. Or smart enough to change his dad's cell number. I mean, Martha was the one at fault, but Donny had no brain.

And then he goes to meet her. Really, at any point she could tell police that HE was harassing HER. he leaves himself open for it. OMG. Even as I type this I am watching ep 6, that is exactly what is happening. What an idiot.

So if you are an idiot, why should I care what then happens to you? 

 

Edited April 29 by Ottis

[Moot Smoothie]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Is a victim supposed to care about their stalker's mental illness?  I think of all people they should get a free pass on not giving a damn.  This woman has had multiple warnings her behavior would cause her trouble, including going to jail, and yet she didn't seem to try to do anything to not be a stalker. 

She was an effective stalker because she knew how to manipulate him.  He developed a rapport with her while she seemed innocent.  She validated him.  And whenever he tried to pull back, she brought out the waterworks, which made him feel bad for the person he initially liked.  Making things complicated and messy is how abusers get away with what they do. 

The same can be said for his experience with the older comedian. He was so desperate to be taken under the wing of a kingmaker, knowing how important luck can be in the business, that he was willing to make excuses for the guy's motives. 

And yes, there were definitely unlikable things about Donny but I don't think it means he deserved to be stalked and raped.  He did deserve to be dumped and I'm glad for Teri she did that for herself.

The mix of everything is why I liked this series.  I think it's important to be reminded that "perfect" victims are rare.  As a species, we tend to want to identify things a victim did 'wrong' that we would "never" do to soothe ourselves into believing we couldn't be victimized.  In reality, abusers like victims who are hard to believe or who they can convince wouldn't be believed. 

I don't think he sought out a trans woman for privacy.  I think he said he changed his name and his profession on the dating site to maintain his privacy.  The reality is that he was attracted to trans women but likely felt shame around it in the same way he was feeling shame about his sexuality in general at the time.

 

I'm not believing this man is "the" victim and can't say anyone is "supposed" to feel any certain way but when the entire frigging premise of his story/ show is that he got himself entangled with Martha and did fuck all to get himself out precisely because he was such a caring, concerned and empathetic guy (except,apparently, for people in his life who were exceedingly good to him)- then yeah, show your fucking work!

So, I'll let others decide how they feel about the precioussss but I'm not buying what he's selling and personally I feel *strongly* that he's full of himself and full of shit.  

[gesundheit]

19 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

There’s an article 

  Hide contents

about the real life  Martha on Daily Mail site and how she harassed family members. There are photos too.  I just hate to provide a link for that place.

 

Oh I found one that summarizes it a bit on Business Insider. Slightly better place to link to, I guess (if only by a hair)!

I chuckled a little at: "I've never owned a toy baby reindeer, and I wouldn't have had any conversation with Richard Gadd about a childhood toy either." Admittedly I know nothing about slander laws in the UK, but she's seriously suing him for the fictional character allegedly being her while at the same time accusing him of inaccuracies in the backstory of the character she's claiming is definitely her? I feel like she's doing his own attorney's work for them.

They just never should've advertised this as being even loosely based on true events. Saved themselves and everyone else the trouble. But we appear to be stuck in this era.

[BAForever]

Binged it. Really torn on my feelings. The actress who played Martha was amazing. I had very little sympathy towards Donny, although I understand that grooming sexual abuse victims deals with lots of psychological issues. 

My favorite people in the series are Donny's parents especially his dad. The scene where he talks to his parents about the abuse was mesmerizing. 

Recommended it to friends halfway through, but rescinded it at the end. 

[Straycat80]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/04/28/the-real-life-martha-from-baby-reindeer-says-shes-planning-to-sue-netflix/

interesting. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

 

[marny]

On 4/29/2024 at 3:26 PM, Moot Smoothie said:

I'm not believing this man is "the" victim and can't say anyone is "supposed" to feel any certain way but when the entire frigging premise of his story/ show is that he got himself entangled with Martha and did fuck all to get himself out precisely because he was such a caring, concerned and empathetic guy (except,apparently, for people in his life who were exceedingly good to him)- then yeah, show your fucking work!

So, I'll let others decide how they feel about the precioussss but I'm not buying what he's selling and personally I feel *strongly* that he's full of himself and full of shit.  

I don’t think we were supposed to see him as the only victim or that he was too kind and considerate. He was an extremely damaged, self-hating person who was conflicted between his fear and anger about being stalked and his pleasure at being desired and made to feel important by Martha. He hated her but he missed her. And by the end, he was able to recognize that Martha was also a victim of her life as well and that the two of them weren’t so different. 

[Adiba]

2 hours ago, marny said:

I don’t think we were supposed to see him as the only victim or that he was too kind and considerate. He was an extremely damaged, self-hating person who was conflicted between his fear and anger about being stalked and his pleasure at being desired and made to feel important by Martha. He hated her but he missed her. And by the end, he was able to recognize that Martha was also a victim of her life as well and that the two of them weren’t so different. 

Re: bolded--I agree. I think that the aim of this piece is not to show Donny as a perfect person or victim, but to show the complexity of human nature and how our choices may affect circumstances and the people around us. Donny can be a victim and unlikeable at the same time. Martha can be a stalker and an occasionally sympathetic character at the same time.

Donny's first interaction with Martha was merely a kind gesture. However, I think the damage in Martha saw the damage in Donny and vice-versa-- at least subconsciously-- and the situation snowballed from there. 

If Richard Gadd wanted to portray himself as a perfect victim, he wouldn't have included his bad decisions and the effect they had on his loved ones in the series.

[Sailorgirl26]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:09 PM, Moot Smoothie said:

 it's just not believable that even the most mentally ill of deranged stalkers wouldn't have lost interest by week 2.

You do realize that subjective levels of attractiveness have absolutely nothing to do with why or how a stalker chooses their victim. 

I do hope your comment was meant tongue-in-cheek because otherwise it is completely dismissive of and disrespectful to anyone who has ever been stalked to any degree and downplays the seriousness of this issue. Even if it was meant as a joke, its in poor taste. 

Having lived through being a target of a stalker, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I spent literally thousands of dollars on sliced tires (all four at once, multiple times), security cameras, additional lighting, landscaping adjustments (trees cut down/pared back), and more. 

I know who it was. He was caught on video but his face was covered enough that it wasn't "definitive proof." I had police officers taking their breaks in my court, sitting in their cars, around the clock. He was never caught. Never charged. Nothing. 

Nearly 7 years later and relocated to a different state 1,000 miles away, I still get freaked out any time a car parks in front of my house on my very private street in a neighborhood that backs up to the water and no one drives through there unless they have a reason to be in the neighborhood. 

I got a Christmas card a few years back -- didn't recognize the handwriting, couldn't make out the signature, and no return address. My address is public record. 

You never EVER get over it. You NEVER feel 100% safe or free again. EVER. 

People have died at the hands of their stalkers. 
 

Edited May 4 by Sailorgirl26

[Snazzy Daisy]

Edited May 4 by Snazzy Daisy

[oftentimes]

Jessica Gunning was F!!  Can't wait to see her in the next season of The Outlaws.

 

 

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😁

[JustHereForFood]

I've not felt able to watch it, just read a detailed summary. I will just say that the writer was very brave to do this project and that some of the horrible victim-blaming comments here would most likely never fly if the victim was a woman.

[Superb Owl]

The entire essay is behind a paywall, but this article covers a good deal of it, including that Stephen King called it "one of the best things I have seen".

https://www.nme.com/news/film/stephen-king-calls-baby-reindeer-one-of-best-things-3753329

[BAForever]

Started it and felt compelled to finish. Lots of good and insightful comments in this thread.  My two takeaways - not sure how "true" the story is, although I do believe he was a victim. Second, one can be a victim and also use really bad judgment. 

[Straycat80]

The real ‘Martha’ is going to do an interview with Piers Morgan tonight in England. I hope they put it on You Tube. I’m interested what her take in all this is. 

[ctmd]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:58 PM, JustHereForFood said:

I've not felt able to watch it, just read a detailed summary. I will just say that the writer was very brave to do this project and that some of the horrible victim-blaming comments here would most likely never fly if the victim was a woman.

this is a large part of why I loved this show. Not only did his guilt/shame about his sexual identity play a part in his decisions, but the stigma about men being abused and/or stalked played a large role too. Why didn't he tell the police all the details of the stalking behaviors? Probably 50% "they should believe me because I'm a man" and 50% "I'm a man, I should be able to handle this. I shouldn't be afraid of a woman, even if she's done XYZ before..."

[Harvey]

22 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

The real ‘Martha’ is going to do an interview with Piers Morgan tonight in England. I hope they put it on You Tube. I’m interested what her take in all this is. 

It is on there

5 million views in just 20 hours. Really good interview

 

I think it's sad that by not being open about what parts of the show are fictional and what parts aren't, Gadd takes away from the impact this incredible show has.

I think by now it is very obvious to everyone that Fiona isn't saying the truth but also that Gadd exaggerated and made up parts of their story.

I for one believe that the SA might have been depicted exactly the way it happened (would be kinda sick to make that up) but the fact that now nobody knows whether 5% or 70% of the story line are fictional, people will eventually start to questions whether the SA even happened etc...

I think it would be a good move to be open about which parts he wrote into the show for the purpose of the show. It would be fair towards Fiona and have him stand in a better light. Transparency is always a good thing. And yes, I know, she's not honest either. But she's the sick person here, he's not on her level, I assume.

[MicheleinPhilly]

Respectfully, I disagree. I'm not someone who sought out any details about the real life circumstances portrayed in the series (and I refuse to give clicks to Piers Morgan and that nutter) and I don't think Gadd owes anyone anything by way of explanation. 

Take it for what it is or don't, but the bottom line is that she's bringing more unwelcome attention to herself with her shenanigans. She could have remained largely anonymous and I don't think Gadd owes her a damn thing. 

I still found the whole series incredibly impactful and appreciated it for what it was. I wish the media would stop giving her the attention she so desperately craves.