S01.E10: The Prodigal Son Returns

[Danny Franks]

Yes, clearly, "something" matters to Laurie, and that something is her daughter.  So maybe now that Laurie sees that she can run but she can't hide from what matters most, she'll start to have some misgivings about being in the GR.

 

Or not.  I hate Laurie so don't expect much from her.  I'm afraid that Tom is now going to join the GR.

 

That's what makes Laurie worse, in my eyes. Because if she just didn't give a shit about anyone but herself, then that's fine. She's just a dick. But she does still care about Jill and Tom, and even about Kevin. Yet she still turns her back on them and gets involved with this cult of dipshits. She knows she's hurting them, and she continued to do it, she tossed their love away like a cigarette lighter down a drain.

 

If the show ever has Laurie regain her place in the Garvey family, I'll be majorly pissed. I think Jill realised now which side her bread is buttered on. She knows her dad will be there for her, and that he loves her, and I think that's what she really needed to start the process of getting better. Kevin seems to have moved on from Laurie, and I think that if he'd found out that Jill was with the GR in a less chaotic moment, we'd have seen his disgust with his ex-wife (because I believe he did sign those divorce papers, didn't he? In episode 6?)

 

Will Tom join the GR? I don't know, it doesn't seem likely, after his experiences with Wayne and his disillusionment. But for him to have joined Wayne in the first place, he must have been looking for something that would help him make sense of the world and feel a connection. He'd be better off going to see his dad and sister, though. And I hope that waste of flesh, Christine, never shows up again.

[stillshimpy]

Sure, we had the inferno, but I was expecting a lot more dead GR lying around. As it was most of the GR seemed beaten badly, but still alive. I don't advocate for murder, but when a show promises me a bloodbath, I feel a little cheated when it doesn't happen.

Well, I think that makes sense though. Sure, hardcore screwing with someone on an emotional level and in that callous a fashion would elicit a rage response in a lot of people. People don't take well to having other people purposefully hurt them, but it's a rare person who will have murder as their response to that, unless it is in defense of their own life. So beating someone but stopping short of killing them seems like a more likely response than a bunch of homicides.

The fire department couldn't respond because the roads were blocked by all the people who converged on the GR house to set it afire and throw crap on that bonfire. It wasn't that the fire department was refusing to help the GR.

As for being promised a blood bath...it was pretty bloody, I thought. Although I have to admit I laughed grimly at the woman taking random shots at the GR people who were scurrying away with their damned doll. It was just a very understandable "Oh lady, here's hoping you're not hitting anything alive, don't let them turn you into that...but it looks like you have fully dreadful aim, so have at a bit."

As for Kevin leaving the other people, again they made their choices, which doesn't make burning alive a fitting end for anyone, but I'd also put my own child's welfare up there in the "I have time to rescue very few here...and I have priorities, dammit. Sorry, looney tunes, but I suggest you flee."

Edited September 8, 2014 by stillshimpy

[WearyTraveler]

Kevin went into the house and rescued Jill, but everyone else in there were just kind of left to go down with the building.  Normally you'd think the firefighters would be trying to rescue people if they could, but the GRs probably ticked off so many people at that point that they weren't going to try to risk it.   That's what I'm guessing.

 

Before rescuing Laurie from her attacker, Kevin had a conversation with one of the police officers at the scene.  He asked where the fire dpt. was and the officer told him they refused to come until the road was cleared of vehicles.  Kevin ordered him to clear the road , then, and the officer said he couldn't because no one wanted to move their car, they just wanted to keep pounding GR members.

 

That was the in-show reason for the lack of firefighters, although I think in real life, while the firefighters would have at least been at the perimeter and would have been trying to help the police clear a path for the fire trucks.

[Cardie]

A bit more on the type of remembering the GR wishes to force on people: At the beginning of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, the lead character, Benjamin Sisko, tries to explain to some atemporal aliens how linear time works, using the advance of players around the bases in baseball. The aliens, who have access to his mind, ask why, then, he is stuck at the moment when his wife died, telling him "You exist here."  The GR want everyone who is left to exist at the moment of the departure, not going on to make meaning beyond that moment. Now, we can ask why they want that who came up with their rituals, etc. But cults are never logical and extreme traumas spawn extreme and irrational reactions.

 

I see the Westboro Baptist Church loonies who picket the funerals of soldiers killed in action or Mr. Rogers as equal in annoyance and vileness to the GR. Imagine how many acolytes they might attract with a worldwide calamity. But as much as most people have a visceral wish to punch them in the nose, that does not mean it's right for the government to be exterminating cults extra-judicially or for the aggrieved Mapletonians to commit assault, arson and murder.

 

The verses from Job do lead to the conclusion that the divinity/ies who rule the world of the Leftovers did this as a test. And anyone who responds to the GR's maddening behavior with violence flunks, imo.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Cardie

[Judois]

While I thought the finale was pretty good,I do think I'm not watching next season. I get too frustrated with the storytelling to find this a satisfying show.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, something has bugged me about the riot. How come the carnage was so minimal? Sure, we had the inferno, but I was expecting a lot more dead GR lying around. As it was most of the GR seemed beaten badly, but still alive. I don't advocate for murder, but when a show promises me a bloodbath, I feel a little cheated when it doesn't happen.

 

Considering the number of gunshots heard during the melee, there should have been many more GRs dead.

[revbfc]

Cardie,

The Westboro Baptist Church is not in the same league of crazy as the GR, because the WBC is up front about what they believe and how you can be saved. They're still assholes, but they're assholes with a clear message.

[Danny Franks]

Considering the number of gunshots heard during the melee, there should have been many more GRs dead.

 

One of the reviews said that the bonfire with the dolls on it also had real people on it. Might have to rewatch to see if that's the case, but if so, it's a good way of disposing of the evidence collectively. Can't punish a whole town for murder.

[Shermie]

In fairness, the holes that are shown on TV and film are actually generally created for the purpose, so they've certainly had a lot of holes dug in their time

 

Well, I get that. It's not like I thought the actors dug the holes. It's just that whenever people on TV or movies have to dig a hole to bury a body (other than an official cemetery hole, which is done by backhoe, and thus, a nice rectangle) it's still in that silly perfect rectangle. Anyone who has dug a hole in real life knows how hard that is to do, especially under the stress of midnight body burying. It's just a silly visual trope that annoys me.

 

 

How come the carnage was so minimal? Sure, we had the inferno, but I was expecting a lot more dead GR lying around. As it was most of the GR seemed beaten badly, but still alive.

 

I thought there were plenty of dead GR's, lying on the lawns (some had been covered) and in the houses. And, as mentioned, lots of people still have the morals to not actually kill someone. Even if they've done something heinously cruel.

 

Kevin went into the house and rescued Jill, but everyone else in there were just kind of left to go down with the building.  Normally you'd think the firefighters would be trying to rescue people if they could, but the GRs probably ticked off so many people at that point that they weren't going to try to risk it.

 

Kevin couldn't have rescued more than one person from that house if he wanted to (and I doubt he did). A deadweight adult is heavy, even a 110-lb teenage girl.

 

As for the firefighters, in real life, cars being in the way wouldn't stop firetrucks. I've seen them barrel right through rows of parked lookie-loos at barn fires, clipping off rearview mirrors and scratching paint jobs as they go. That's their right. The police force should have been moving those cars by hand if they had to, to let the firetrucks through. And firefighters could have still gone through on foot to try and rescue people from inside the houses. That's their job, and the cops' job. They don't get to decide who they want to save.

[MrWhyt]

I just don't see much story left after this season.

There is the entire rest of the lives of the main characters. This show isn't about the departure, it's about the the leftovers.

[Cardie]

The Westboro Baptist Church is not in the same league of crazy as the GR, because the WBC is up front about what they believe and how you can be saved. They're still assholes, but they're assholes with a clear message.

 

 

So it would be OK to commit assault and murder on them if they were just as obnoxious but their message was cloudy? Because my point was that we wouldn't authorize violence against WBC, not that they were similar in every regard to the GR.

[iMonrey]

I cannot get past the GR breaking into everyone's homes, setting up dummies of their departed loved ones, without once getting caught or heard in the attempt. That's just absurd. In the first place, do they have keys to these peoples homes? Didn't they change their locks after all their photos were stolen? Does everyone in this town work 9 to 5 and go to bed at the same time? Nobody works the night shift? Is everyone such a sound sleeper they wouldn't hear someone break into their house and set dummies up, sometimes right down the hall? Did the GR drug the water supply and knock everyone out? Do they have magic powers or something?

 

I don't get the smoking thing, either. It seems to me these people dress up in white, never speak, and smoke all the time just to look creepy. There doesn't seem to be any particular reasoning behind any of it.

 

In the end, what I got out of this show is that it's all atmosphere and no substance. I appreciate that they had a measure (albeit a small one) of closure in case this ended up being a one-season show, but I won't be back for a second season. I gave it a fair shake but I find it utterly pretentious and preposterous.

[revbfc]

Cardie,

Stating the difference between WBC and GR is not the same as advocating violence against one as opposed to the other. Do not accuse people of things based on conclusions from your imagination.

[editorgrrl]

Matt was awesome the entire episode. 

 

Matt was orange the entire episode! I binge-watched the marathon last weekend (episodes 1–9), and somehow didn't notice the terrible makeup. But this time, having read about it here—yeesh!

[meep.meep]

 

The Chief running into a dying Holy Wayne at a random restaurant bathroom on his way back from Cairo also seemed kind of forced into the story (and with no explanation of how Holy Wayne got there or who stabbed/shot/injured him ?).

 

Since they were in the same diner that Patti and Laurie stopped at, and before that Patti and Gladys, I figured it's the only restaurant in the greater Mapleton coming and going area.  The only place to stop.

 

I loved the symmetry of the guy in the parking lot asking Tom if he needed help with Kevin realizing that he needed help and calling Matt.  The whole burial scene was really moving.

[Davey]

 

I cannot get past the GR breaking into everyone's homes, setting up dummies of their departed loved ones, without once getting caught or heard in the attempt. That's just absurd. In the first place, do they have keys to these peoples homes? Didn't they change their locks after all their photos were stolen? Does everyone in this town work 9 to 5 and go to bed at the same time? Nobody works the night shift? Is everyone such a sound sleeper they wouldn't hear someone break into their house and set dummies up, sometimes right down the hall? Did the GR drug the water supply and knock everyone out? Do they have magic powers or something?

 

This to me is the reason this show sucks. The writers are trying to make the GR seem so smart but actually they are just making everyone else seem so dumb. The cops do absolutely nothing as these people deface property in broad daylight, stalk people and break into their houses. I'm confused as to why there wasn't any scenes at all of the townspeople getting angry and talking to the cops about this stuff. Instead they don't seem to care or even exist until this final episode where housewives are shooting people. Right.  

 

How did the GR know exactly where everyone was when they disappeared right down to their body positioning?

[revbfc]

Amen to all those calling BS on the repeated break-ins. Also, I know fire looks better at night, but the town took the whole day before burning the GR cul-de-sac? I would have liked to have seen the entire town collectively keep calm until sundown.

[WearyTraveler]

You guys are assuming facts not in evidence.  Who says they went into every single house and left every single doll in the exact same position the departed was?  The show never even tried to imply that much.  Maybe some dolls were left in the yards, sitting on a chair or on a towel.

 

We know they got Nora's perfectly right, but they have a file on Nora, as they have a file on all their possible recruits.  They have been in the town 3 years.  Plenty of time to investigate and build files on people.  I'm sure right after the disappearance people were talking about a lot, telling their stories in minute detail.  Like we do with the Kennedy Assassination and 9/11.  Everyone remembers exactly everything they were doing those days, and back when these events happened and we used to talk about them a lot more, we'd tell everyone all the details.  Whose to say the GR wasn't keeping a record of all of that?

 

A few episodes ago the town did demand action in that infamous town hall meeting after Gladys was murdered and that's when a curfew was established.  Again you guys are assuming the town hasn't complained, but maybe they have. 

 

As for the events of Memorial Day, I imagine people were first shocked, then they tried talking to others, then there was some attempt at organization, perhaps they called an emergency town meeting.  Then small cones of violence started popping up, until they became a mob and someone proposed to go to the GR HQ. 

 

I don't find any major logical leaps there.
 

[revbfc]

Yeah, your version of Memorial Day does sound probable, WearyTraveler. Thanks!

[Davey]

Maybe they did Weary Traveler. Maybe they did. Of course none of it was shown but maybe members of the GR were in fact investigated and there just wasn't enough evidence to prosecute for the break-ins even though they left fingerprints everywhere. Maybe they wiped them down. Maybe they were routinely ticketed for painting things white but it just wasn't shown in-show. Maybe

 

I guess you and I are both doing a lot of assuming based on our individual points of view but that's where the terrible writing of the show has left us. Assuming.

[Shermie]

I'm confused as to why there wasn't any scenes at all of the townspeople getting angry and talking to the cops about this stuff. Instead they don't seem to care or even exist until this final episode where housewives are shooting people. Right

 

Obviously, it built up as the day progressed. Look at Nora. She was stunned and just sat there at the table with her creepy fake family. Who knows for how long? She was probably in mild shock. Lots of people would have broken down or run away or just sat there, like Nora. It would take a while for the people to realize that it happened all over town, and then to figure out who did it (although it would be obvious, I guess, once you knew it was a town-wide thing) and then gather and have anger build up to the point of hauling GR's out of the house and beating on them. Rage and rioting takes time to build up, even in this day and age.

 

Some people seem to think Mapleton is some tiny hamlet with all the houses within walking distance (only possible if there are less than 50 houses, meaning 100-200 people, tops) and some kind of central square where everyone can be in a moment's notice. I don't know any small towns like that, at least not if they're big enough to have their own police department and high school. 

 

Since they were in the same diner that Patti and Laurie stopped at, and before that Patti and Gladys, I figured it's the only restaurant in the greater Mapleton coming and going area.

 

It's a good theory that it's the only restaurant in town - which is why that's where everyone seems to go - but I doubt it. A town big enough for a high school and a police department (and its own mayor) is going to have a bunch of restaurants. If that sad little diner is the only place to go in town to eat, no wonder they're all so melancholy.

 

I guess you and I are both doing a lot of assuming based on our individual points of view but that's where the terrible writing of the show has left us. Assuming.

 

I don't agree that not telling the viewer every minute detail of each event means it is terrible writing. How tedious would the show be if they kept mentioning that Mapleton lost 29 people to the Departening and that the GR has 129 people on their recruitment list, all related to the 29 Departed, and that they made 27 Departed dolls because they have no idea what Departed #15 was wearing because her mother won't talk about it and that Departed #25 lived alone so who knows what he was wearing?  Blahblahblah, tedious. I don't need that intense detail to discern that the GR copied a lot of Mapleton's Departed with creepy dolls, put them in their homes to freak out their Leftovers. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Shermie

[Davey]

Shermie, I meant throughout the entire run of the show not just the day of the riot. There was not one single instance of anyone on the show showing any anger about the break-ins. The town simply didn't care, not on screen anyway. Hell I would think the riots would happen earlier but at the police station because even though the whole town knows who did these things the cops did nothing. Again maybe the GR did do jail time but it just wasn't shown, nothing was.

 

Also who don't you agree with? I never said we need to see every minute detail? One or two would be nice.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Davey

[Cardie]

We are used to omniscient point of view story-telling on television or at least story-telling in which the characters we follow happen to be at the center of the action and elicit sufficient exposition from others to fill in most of the blanks. The Leftovers very much concentrates on individual, subjective point of view in which characters are not where information is to be had. (Given that it's about an inexplicable phenomenon, this use of point-of-view is not a shock.) The writing isn't always first rate but I don't think this particular aspect of it deserves to be called terrible. Think of times in your own life when you reacted to sudden disasters in a way you never would have imagined you would or that you found out about some personal tragedy much later than others did, leaving you perplexed at sudden grief and anger among friends or family.

 

When we also consider that this is a world in which a higher power has decided to intervene in human affairs in a way that defies any methods known to empirical reason, I can pretty much buy that no one heard the GR sneaking in, etc. Asking for realistic logic here is like asking that Bible stories make that kind of sense.

[Pallas]

The diner may be the same set but I'm not sure it's meant to be the same venue.  After eating, Kevin and Matt continue on their way, crossing the Hudson and heading further south (most likely) as the sun begins to set.  It's dark by the time they arrive in Mapleton.  It seems unlikely Patti chose a specific place so distant, to have it out with Laurie -- then again, no more unlikely than Wayne's choosing that specific place to die, with Kevin to witness.

 

Job indeed. Guy can't go to the john/go for a quickie/ go for a run/go to the dry cleaner's/go to the dogs without banging up against the inexplicable. 

[WearyTraveler]

I guess you and I are both doing a lot of assuming based on our individual points of view but that's where the terrible writing of the show has left us. Assuming.

 

I don't think it's terrible writing as much as writing what is important to the story versus filling in minutia and spending valuable episode time in small details that would have NO impact whatsoever to the story.

 

You know what's terrible writing? The Lost triangle.  As much as I loved that show, the stupid triangle drove me bonkers.  Kate licking a spoon to seduce Jack because she was jealous of him and Juliet? That's terrible writing right there!

 

I think it's fine to complain about what you don't like, but to complain about things that haven't happened on the show seems unfair to me.  So, that's why I addressed this particular comment.  People are complaining that the GR knew the position of every body and that they entered every house.  How can that be a valid complaint when the show never said this is what actually happened?  We only saw one house: Nora's.  We don't know where all the dolls were placed, we don't know if the GR entered every house.  So, to me, this a wrong reading of the scenes we were presented.  Maybe by correcting this mistake, the person will not feel so angry anymore (I'm all for spreading peace and happiness!).

 

As to the things some people want to see on the show, which I understand are: 1) The GR being prosecuted / put in jail, 2) People complaining about the GR to the law and 3) The evolution of Memorial Day from beginning to end.  I ask: why would you want to see all that boring stuff? Truly?

 

How does it advance the plot to know that the citizens are complaining to the police, the mayor, the prosecutor? We saw it once with the town hall meeting.  What do we gain by seeing it again and again? Obviously, the season was always supposed to culminate with the big stunt from the GR, so, even if they had decided to show us the citizens complaining, they would have had to also show us the GR getting away with it through some Law & Order style maneuvering, because they needed every single member to pull off the Memorial Day plan.  If I want to see a Law & Order episode, I'll stream a L&O episode (they were so very, very good!).  But this show is not about that.  Why waste time with small details like those?

 

As for the evolution of the Memorial Day Mayhem, why do we need to see that, exactly? Wouldn't that be gratuitous violence?  We saw what they were planning, we saw how it impacted Nora, and then we saw the end result of the day: riots, violence, fire, death.  The in-between is either boring, violence for the sake of violence and unnecessary.  I don't need to see people complaining and someone yelling: "Let's go get the sonsofbitches!!" and the crowd taking their pitchforks (or guns, in this case) and attacking the GR.  The end result is the same: Kevin walks back into town to find chaos. In order to show the evolution of the day, we'd need to cut out some other scene, what would you sacrifice so you can see completely immaterial, non-plot advancing details? Matt helping Kevin? The bible quote? Kevin's confession? Kevin and Wayne? Tom and the kind stranger? Nora with the creepy dolls at the table? Nora's letter? The dog's return? I for one wouldn't do away with any of those key scenes just so I can show a chain of events that can easily be deduced by the viewer and that, most importantly, wouldn't add anything of substance to the episode. 

[Danny Franks]

I don't think it's terrible writing as much as writing what is important to the story versus filling in minutia and spending valuable episode time in small details that would have NO impact whatsoever to the story.

 

Yep. Again, this show is not about how stuff happened, and why it happened, but about what the stuff that happens means to people. So who cares if the GR planted their dolls in the exact same spots as the people who disappeared? Who cares if we didn't see the escalation of things in town, because we focused on Kevin? Well, actually, I care about that, because I already said that I thought it was a great dramatic device to show the earliest reaction to the dolls, and then cut away completely, only to return when the town was in chaos.

 

I can figure out how things went without them being explained to me. I can understand how that lady who lost her baby resorted to trying to shoot GR members in the street. It's not just about the distress they cause you, it's about the distress you see them causing others, which just makes you even angrier. To the point where you lose control. But do I need to see her, a character who has appeared twice before now, discover her baby and go crazy? Nope. I'd rather see Kevin Garvey process his guilt and grief and finally channel it into some sort of cathartic confession, thank you very much.

 

We already saw the townspeople start attacking the GR in the very first episode of the show, so why should it be a stretch to think they wouldn't react with violence to this insult? It was the final, and biggest, straw, after the niggly little acts of emotional terrorism committed all season. And the GR knew it would happen this way. That's why they did it. Like Kevin said, they want to be hurt. It validates their shadow existence, enables their sense of superiority.

[RedHackle]

Maybe some dolls were left in the yards, sitting on a chair or on a towel.

 

 

We did see some dolls outside - there was one doing what appeared to be yoga in a field (or perhaps park), there was one propped up like it was pushing a shopping cart (a nice touch as in the first episode, we did see a run-away shopping cart.) 

 

I thought it was a great episode with some great touches.  My few nitpicks (that i think others have commented on) - if my house had been broken into, (as almost everyone's was back when the GR stole their pictures) you had better believe I'd be locking, double locking and possibly booby-trapping my door from then on.  So are the Garveys the only folks in town with an alarm system, or does the GR have a squad of locksmiths and B&E artists? 

 

Also, is there not one apartment building in Maplteon?  Or does every person live in a house?  I've lived in a lot of apartments and one way I choose them is by how hard it would be to break into.  But okay, for the sake of argument, let's just say the GR did all the ones they could.  Didn't they say in the Nora episode that the dolls cost like $60,000 each?  If there were 100 of them done (wild ass guess, based on all the clothes Patty laid out) that's $6,000,000.00 right? For something that amounts to what is bascially  the GR equivalent of a senior prank.   Maybe I'm wrong, having always been weak in math, but it's bunch of money, to be sure.  I know this has come up elsewhere that the GR is apparently very wealthy, possibly having recruited some very wealthy types to their cause, but it's still money. 

 

And yeah, Tom leaving the baby on Kevin's porch struck me as wrong.  I totally get why Cynthia abandonded him (I don't condone, just understand) but for Tom to turn around and abandon the same baby -come on, that's just mean. Babies are not hot potatoes, guys.  Glad Nora seems to want him at least.

 

Okay, there's my nitpicks. My most loved moments; when Jill and Laurie are squaring off, Jill starts casually taking off her clothes to change into the white uniform.  The look on Laurie's face was perfect - equal parts fear and protectiveness - she's with these people and evidently trusts them with her life, but your teenage daugther dropping trou in front of them is something else again.  And agin the look of gratitude on Laurie's face at Kevin, for saving Jill - and the responding look on Kevin's, the utter hatred and disgust he feels that Laurie could endanger their daughter like that.  It was subtle, and really well done by Thoreaux.  Anyone who has ever been through a divorce knows that look.

 

I like the show, and continue to like it.  There will always be something they don't do perfect (it's not Breaking Bad, after all) but almost every single episode with me sitting in my chair, hands clamped over my mouth and/or swearing. 

[WearyTraveler]

Shermie, I meant throughout the entire run of the show not just the day of the riot. There was not one single instance of anyone on the show showing any anger about the break-ins. The town simply didn't care, not on screen anyway. Hell I would think the riots would happen earlier but at the police station because even though the whole town knows who did these things the cops did nothing. Again maybe the GR did do jail time but it just wasn't shown, nothing was.

 

Also who don't you agree with? I never said we need to see every minute detail? One or two would be nice.

 

The did show people complaining at the Town Hall meeting. Kevin did put them in jail for trespassing on the school grounds.  The police was doing something as Kevin had a big board with the results of his investigations (he wasn't getting anywhere, but he was doing something).  Kevin told the mayor, more than once, that the town was a power keg, that there was violence below the surface, that the situation was escalating, and she dismissed him (which is why she told him "you were right" when he found her wandering in the streets).

 

So, again, what more details are needed? and how would those additions contribute to the main storyline?

 

Job indeed. Guy can't go to the john/go for a quickie/ go for a run/go to the dry cleaner's/go to the dogs without banging up against the inexplicable. 

 

Hahahahaah! I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that! You're right, poor Kevin!

Edited September 8, 2014 by WearyTraveler

[Diane M]

So glad Kevin was having a dream (nightmare) because seeing Patti give him a lap dance was not fun to watch.

[editorgrrl]

From Time magazine's recap:

[H]ow exactly do the GR break so silently into so many homes? Is their secret leader The Grinch?

 

From the Entertainment Weekly recap:

There's no rhyme or reason to what happened, and if you insist on concrete answers, you might find yourself in a rubber room watching Perfect Strangers.

 

I knew that scene was a dream because it was established in the pilot that the entire cast of Perfect Strangers (including Bronson Pinchot and Mark Linn-Baker, aka Balki Bartokomous & Cousin Larry) are among the departed—along with Pope Benedict XVI, Anthony Bourdain, Gary Busey, Jennifer Lopez, Bonnie Raitt, Condoleezza Rice, and Salman Rushdie.

[WearyTraveler]

I knew that scene was a dream because it was established in the pilot that the entire cast of Perfect Strangers (including Bronson Pinchot and Mark Linn-Baker, aka Balki Bartokomous & Cousin Larry) are among the departed

 

 You've never watched TV Land or Nick at Nite?! :-O  ;-)

[WearyTraveler]

Also from Time's magazine recap:

This show was bound to disappoint the Doubting Thomases of fandom, who need to put their hands in the wounds and know who was in the outrigger. And that’s fine. I didn’t always get The Leftovers, but I always felt it, and that would have made it a success even if it were canceled.

 

Next the series, like its characters, will have to figure out what it’s going to do, now that it’s still here. I can’t wait, even if loving this show means embracing it, like the GR, with a combination of faith and fatalism. I don’t expect the answer from The Leftovers. And yet I believe.

 

Also from the Entertainment Weekly recap:

 

Damon Lindelof and Tom Perrota have repeatedly cautioned the audience not to expect answers or explanations for the Departure, but the accelerated pace and reveal-heavy content of the previous two episodes raised expectations nonetheless. In the end, the finale delivered what was promised: The premiere of The Leftovers was specifically about the Garvey family, and the finale returned to them and those themes. Laurie and Tom even had a chance reunion near the river—were we to think that Laurie was contemplating jumping in and that his from-nowhere appearance saved her? We never heard from Aimee, who bolted the Garvey home after her spat with Jill in episode 8. And we never learned if Matt's wife had miraculously recovered from her car-accident injuries, or if she just had a twitch the day that Megan came by to apologize to him. Holy Wayne is gone. The GR is gloriously depleted. Patti is back, if only in the darkest corners of Kevin's still-troubled psyche. And Nora might be raising the Chosen One. Or the Anti-Christ. It's not a bad place to start season 2.

 

I think the finale was extremely well received in the media.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

"We don't know where all the dolls were placed, we don't know if the GR entered every house."

And I'm pretty sure they had the kids on the wrong side of the table in the second place. Daughter should have been on the far side by the window.

Anyone else notice the music in the diner was Santos & Johnny's famous instrumental, "Sleepwalk"? Loved that tidbit.

[stillshimpy]

Well, there's also a key difference between not showing something and then the audience not making the connection to what was shown:

Also who don't you agree with? I never said we need to see every minute detail? One or two would be nice.

We saw a bunch. We saw that the GR regularly stalked and watched the families of those who had lost people in The Departure. We saw enough that a lot of people realized what the GR was planning to do. We saw clothes being laid out. We saw a book with the details of all the Mapleton departures and one of the GR flipping through that book.

So we know they gathered information and stalked the mourning families, it's not really a big leap or something that I personally need spelled out. Now, the thing with the damned photographs and no one caring and the lack of alarm systems is another thing.

But if I had people silently stalking me I'm sure they would know my comings and goings. They apparently had enough money (now that we know nothing about) to order five thousand dollar a pop dolls (those had to be the low end model, good god they were creepy). The government had files on all departures and you know, most of the time public information is something that can be found.

It's one thing to not like the story, or to think that people are written in an unbelievable fashion, but they did show a lot of things throughout the course of the season.

I liked that they had Size Barbie Whities for Jill right there, that was funny. They've never adequately explained the smoking, but the point might actually really be to be creepy and annoying. They wanted to be disconcerting.

Anyway, they laid their groundwork fairly well except for some things that will presumably be part of next season, I suppose.

[Helena Dax]

The GR should change its name, the Bastard Remnant is more accurate. I didn't need to see how the attack started because after what they've done, what else could happen? It's easy to imagine people's reaction. My only complain is that we didn't see Meg being beaten. Her smug gace, ugh!

 

I'm so glad Nora didn't commit suicide! I thought she was going to, for a moment. What a sad letter she wrote... I wonder if it's really the end of a civilization. It's sad to think it could be. But then, the end of the season was a bit hopeful, and I'm thankful for that. And the dog was a nice touch.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Helena Dax

[GaT]

So who cares if the GR planted their dolls in the exact same spots as the people who disappeared? 

 

 

 

"We don't know where all the dolls were placed, we don't know if the GR entered every house."

 

And I'm pretty sure they had the kids on the wrong side of the table in the second place. Daughter should have been on the far side by the window.

 

How would the GR even know where the people who disappeared were to begin with? 

[whiporee]

It will be interesting to see where they go from here, because the book ends pretty much with Nora finding the a baby and saying to Kevin "Look what i found." So it's unspoiled for everyone from here on in, I think. 

[seamusk]

It will be interesting to see where they go from here, because the book ends pretty much with Nora finding the a baby and saying to Kevin "Look what i found." So it's unspoiled for everyone from here on in, I think. 

I was wondering about this.  I might read the book out of curiosity to see how it compares.  Good activity for the time between now and next season.

[stillshimpy]

How would the GR even know where the people who disappeared were to begin with?

We have seen a government agency collecting information via Nora's questionnaire about the departures, searching for some commonality. They have an entire department for depatures, Nora works for it. This would not be the first information gathered and again, that information would almost have to be made public due to the entire "we want answers!" and public funding issues.

I mean, not that anyone would really give a hang, and hell, I'd tell anyone who asked, but you could find out how much we paid for our house here because it's a matter of public record. There's a lot of information about people available in the public sphere.

We've seen government agencies and entire industries that are based on Departures. The information is out there (Down, Mulder, down). The reports of the departures should be on file somewhere.

Edited September 8, 2014 by stillshimpy

[ganesh]

I'm glad Jill didn't die in the fire. I also thought Nora was going to shoot herself, but I think the decision to just up and leave makes sense. She can basically go where she wants because she's alone, and it's likely the federal agency she works for has offices pretty much all over the place, if she wants to even continue working for them. It is a federal job, so she might have good benefits and security. 

 

None of the pieces I had issues with was resolved even remotely. But I wasn't expecting that to happen. I did think there would be more into Kevin's father's voices and whether this type of event has happened before. Otherwise it seems like the National Geo issue was a red herring. 

 

I wasn't expecting Tom's friend to actually abandon the baby though. I'm not surprised at the town reaction to the dolls and whatnot. I actually thought it would have been a lot worse. 

 

I'm a little over the weird loud music playing for a few minutes and then it cuts to someone listening to headphones. It strikes me as pretentious. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by ganesh

[WearyTraveler]

He's alive!  No aneurysm, then? ;)

[Cardie]

We only saw one house: Nora's.

 

I think we also saw the doll of the son with Down syndrome sitting at the kitchen table in the background of a close-up of a family photo; then we saw his parents carrying it to the bonfire.  Maybe it's because I was watching my recording of the abysmal Houdini miniseries before Leftovers, but I figured that picking those locks wasn't going to be that hard. The GR only had to have one locksmith in the ranks. And heaven knows they have lots of practice keeping quiet. :)

 

I will be happy to watch S2 but have fears they may muck it up going forward. Please no additional departures or returns of the vanished!

[meep.meep]

 

The diner may be the same set but I'm not sure it's meant to be the same venue.  After eating, Kevin and Matt continue on their way, crossing the Hudson and heading further south (most likely) as the sun begins to set.  It's dark by the time they arrive in Mapleton.  It seems unlikely Patti chose a specific place so distant, to have it out with Laurie -

 

Patti very specifically did choose a place so far away from Mapleton that they would not be recognized.  She wanted to have Laurie and Gladys feel free to speak if they wanted to.  So it is the same place.

 

We saw the dolls of Norah's family, the Down Syndrome boy, and the father with the shopping cart.

 

And I'm sorry but I've never heard of Santos and Johnny much less some "famous" piece of music they put out.

[WearyTraveler]

And I'm sorry but I've never heard of Santos and Johnny much less some "famous" piece of music they put out.

 

It's one of those songs that's always being played in TVs and movies.  I remembered it from the movie Sleepwalkers, based on a Stephen King novel

[Tim Thomason]

While it's true that it's pretty much an open-ended series (unlike, say, Breaking Bad or something) and could theoretically go on forever, the reliance on questions and mysteries makes me weary of how long they plan on going. I hope that a basic five-year or four-year or seven-season plan is written up somewhere under lock-and-key. After they run out of book information, I hope the creators don't go too out there with the storyline. I was very annoyed when I thought for a second that Patty was some sort of ghost that'd be around for awhile. Dream sequences themselves can be frustrating, but I've come to expect them from Kevin Garvey.

 

The drama in the second season could focus on the local GR being reformed under Meg, maybe looking at its national structure, and also Laurie reawakening herself on the road with Tom. And Jill trying to be a better person with Nora and Kevin. Matt was the best person to call to help with the Patty situation, although he seemed oddly chipper after a very distressing afternoon for most sane people. We had a good episode on him, and I know he's not a sociopath, but his "hidden" vendetta against the GR seems to be unhinging him a bit.

 

Kevin is perhaps the worst police chief in the history of police chiefs. I guess it's probably a step up though to have a police chief disappear for days on end with no explanation instead of one who tries to burn down the library a couple of times. In the real world, after a small-town riot like that, he'd be out of the job. Mayor Lucy too, probably. I wonder if the federal agent that Kevin talked to in the diner was the same one he talked to over the phone in an earlier ep. The one who wanted to "take care" of the cult problem in Mapleton.

 

Which brings me to Wayne's story. I thought the reason that Wayne "cured" Nora in an earlier episode was a way to unite the Tom & Christine storyline with Kevin & co. That Nora would end up being a secret devotee of Wayne and be a burden should Tom & Christine try to resurface and breakaway from the Wayne cult. Now Wayne's dead, Nora is burdened and then unburdened again from her troubles (which is fine, I never believed he was more than a cold reader), Christine's gone I guess, and Tom is probably on a different path to rediscovery. So really it seems that Wayne being in New York was just a cameo to explain Nora's troubling psyche and has no long-lasting effects. Unless she learns that she's about to raise Wayne's messianic child, or that her boyfriend was there during his dying breath, or her boyfriend's son was a close associate of the cult. But I'm not sure how that would come up.

[Shermie]

Saw Justin Theroux at TIFF and he was clean-shaven. I think I prefer the semi-shaven scruff look of The Leftovers, but he still looked great.

[benteen]

I don't think Brenneman should get one. I really don't think she's been that good, given the fixed smug sneer she's worn for most of the season. I'd rather see an Emmy nomination go to Carrie Coon. I think she's been great all season, and Nora has been one of the most sympathetic characters. Justin Theroux should get one, though. Magnetic presence, and some tough stuff to play.

 

 

Call it dramatic license. And I like they metaphor of Kevin fighting his way through flames to find his daughter. His struggle all season has been an inability to connect to her, and he just couldn't find it in him to fight for her. But now, he's willing and able to do whatever it takes to get her back.

 

Carrie Coon was the breakout star of The Leftovers and should get some consideration though I suspect this show will be overlooked when it comes to the acting awards.  Christopher Eccleston was a standout along with Coon and JT was outstanding as well.

While it's true that it's pretty much an open-ended series (unlike, say, Breaking Bad or something) and could theoretically go on forever, the reliance on questions and mysteries makes me weary of how long they plan on going. I hope that a basic five-year or four-year or seven-season plan is written up somewhere under lock-and-key. After they run out of book information, I hope the creators don't go too out there with the storyline. I was very annoyed when I thought for a second that Patty was some sort of ghost that'd be around for awhile. Dream sequences themselves can be frustrating, but I've come to expect them from Kevin Garvey.

 

The drama in the second season could focus on the local GR being reformed under Meg, maybe looking at its national structure, and also Laurie reawakening herself on the road with Tom. And Jill trying to be a better person with Nora and Kevin. Matt was the best person to call to help with the Patty situation, although he seemed oddly chipper after a very distressing afternoon for most sane people. We had a good episode on him, and I know he's not a sociopath, but his "hidden" vendetta against the GR seems to be unhinging him a bit.

 

Kevin is perhaps the worst police chief in the history of police chiefs. I guess it's probably a step up though to have a police chief disappear for days on end with no explanation instead of one who tries to burn down the library a couple of times. In the real world, after a small-town riot like that, he'd be out of the job. Mayor Lucy too, probably. I wonder if the federal agent that Kevin talked to in the diner was the same one he talked to over the phone in an earlier ep. The one who wanted to "take care" of the cult problem in Mapleton.

 

Which brings me to Wayne's story. I thought the reason that Wayne "cured" Nora in an earlier episode was a way to unite the Tom & Christine storyline with Kevin & co. That Nora would end up being a secret devotee of Wayne and be a burden should Tom & Christine try to resurface and breakaway from the Wayne cult. Now Wayne's dead, Nora is burdened and then unburdened again from her troubles (which is fine, I never believed he was more than a cold reader), Christine's gone I guess, and Tom is probably on a different path to rediscovery. So really it seems that Wayne being in New York was just a cameo to explain Nora's troubling psyche and has no long-lasting effects. Unless she learns that she's about to raise Wayne's messianic child, or that her boyfriend was there during his dying breath, or her boyfriend's son was a close associate of the cult. But I'm not sure how that would come up.

 

Damon Lineloff (I can't be bothered to spell his name correctly) is producing this show so that pretty much he'll be making things up as the show goes along without any kind of a plan.

 

Agreed 100% on how bad a police chief Kevin is.  It's amazing and unrealistic there haven't been steps to remove him from his position.  At the very least there would be people openly wondering if he inherited his father's mental illness.

[jbrecken]

I wonder if the GR has a mole in the agency Nora works for, who could get information from all those Legacy questionnaires that could be used to position the dolls where the people disappeared.

[Snakelite]

I was lukewarm about this show, but the final three episodes were excellent. This episode was was amazing. The acting, the music and the cinematography came together to perfectly underscore the end of the season. This show has made me think more than I normally would about a TV series, but then I'm retired with a lot of time on my hands. The reason I came close to abandoning the show is what many others have pointed out: the seemingly ridiculousness of the Guilty Remnant. I'm not sure that "remembering" the departed is actually the point of their nihilism. I think it might be more about the point of continuing to live and love in a world so uncertain that you can lose your life or the ones you care most about in an instant, without rhyme or reason. Underlying all that hatred is fear. Continuing on is too difficult for them so they have rationalized this cult where they stop caring because caring is too difficult when you can be emotionally devastated in a blink of an eye. The GR is not a new "family." They make sure they cannot become too emotionally involved by limiting communication and individuality. Their family is lost to them and cannot be taken away. The members of the GR are guilty because they are cowards without the courage to continue on and risk loss and pain. The Departure was so pointless and random it could happen again, to anyone. We all know that life is uncertain, but we do so much to preserve it, to increase the odds against losing it, both our own and our loved one's. We get preventative health care, buy the best car seat for our kids, drive carefully, eat a healthy diet and we know we shouldn't smoke. The GR's smoking has nothing to do with remembering, it is a manifestation of the point that it just doesn't matter anymore. Life has become so insecure, so tenuous, and that is what they really want people to remember so they won't be alone in their fear and cowardice. Their anger is at themselves, whether they realize it or not. They have given up to the point where their own lives have lost any joy or meaning and they no longer care if they live or die. Laurie may no longer care about herself, but she still cares about Jill. The idea of losing her to another departure may even have played a role in her attempt to emotionally separate herself from her family. I am looking forward to the next season and where they take this story when they are no longer so hampered by the source material. I'm also looking forward to continuing to read the forum threads about this show. They are always interesting and give me even more to ponder.

[WearyTraveler]

Damon Lineloff (I can't be bothered to spell his name correctly) is producing this show so that pretty much he'll be making things up as the show goes along without any kind of a plan.

 

Lindelof, you just missed a d. :)

 

He's not the only showrunner.  Tom Perrota, the book's author, is also a showrunner and producer, so, I think he might be the one looking after character development and overall story.  The book is his baby, these are the people he created.  If anyone knows what they are supposed to do, or where they will end up, it would be Mr. Perrota.

 

As for having a plan, a few observations:

 

1) One show is not enough, IMO, to attribute a flaw to somebody.  Let's say, for instance, that you quit your job, should we all now call you a quitter?

 

2) I disagree with the notion that the Lost showrunners didn't have a plan.  I think they had their general story outline, and that they stuck to it, but that some points in between were organic and were developed along the way.  As much criticism as they got after the Lost finale, they still maintain they did the ending they always wanted to do. I believe that because it was an ending I saw coming (Jack died saving the world, I predicted that after the pilot episode).

 

3) Network TV is a very different animal from Cable TV.  For starters, the whole season is usually in the can before the first episode airs.  I think that's awesome.  One of the biggest mistakes I think the Lost creators made was to listen to the fans so much.  The love triangle, arguably the worst part of Lost, was kept alive because of how vocal the shippers were.  As bad as it was, it was one of the most discussed, popular, and passion generating storylines.  I think the network pushed for it to be kept ambiguous and used it as much as they could in their clips and promotions.  Another example is the introduction of Niki and Paolo, which came to the scene because the fans were clamoring to know what the non-main cast characters were thinking.  The showrunners have said they regretted that decision. 

 

4) The Leftovers is not a story that requires a detailed plan, IMO.  You have two possible final outcomes: either humanity finds a way to move on and recover or we head towards complete emotional extinction.  Neither scenario requires a detailed plan, IMO.  This is definitely a very different story from what other TV shows are.  Game of Thrones is a show that requires strict planning, The Leftovers, not so much.