S04.E05: Part 5

[tennisgurl]

I really have no idea how the hell they're going to wrap up all of this in one more episode. The flashbacks to Danvers and Navarro's tragic pasts? The conspiracy to kill Annie and hide what the mine is getting up to? What happened to the scientists and why Annie's tongue was there? Why everyone keeps seeing ghosts everywhere? What is even up with Rose? 

I really should have seen Hank being part of this coming, I had written him off as just a petty dickhead, but him being part of the cover up does make sense. Poor Peter, I think that Hank deliberately got Peter to kill him so that he wouldn't have to take his own life, like the cowardly asshole he is. What a huge final fuck you to his son. I know that a lot was happening, but I would be pretty worried about leaving Peter alone after just killing his father to clean up his fathers body and the body of the guy his dad just murdered right after his wife threw him out, I really wouldn't want to leave him alone right now. 

Peter is smart enough to figure all of this out in about a day of investigating but used his sons birthday as his password? Come on, that's internet security 101!

There were a lot of great little character moments, like Navarro hugging her sisters urn, Leah and Peter holding hands through the door while Leah was in lockups, Leah's hurt expression when her girlfriend ran away as she was being beaten, lots of really interesting powerful moments. 

It feels like the show is way more interested in who killed Annie than what happened to the scientists, I guess they wanted the big creepy pile of dead guys to be their marketing hook but really wanted to do a more conventional murder mystery with an evil business conspiracy vs a kind young activist woman who was tragically murdered. 

Edited February 12 by tennisgurl

[12catcrazy]

35 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Peter is smart enough to figure all of this out in about a day of investigating but used his sons birthday as his password? Come on, that's internet security 101!

There were a lot of great little character moments, like Navarro hugging her sisters urn, Leah and Peter holding hands through the door while Leah was in lockups, Leah's hurt expression when her girlfriend ran away as she was being beaten, lots of really interesting powerful moments. 

It feels like the show is way more interested in who killed Annie than what happened to the scientists, I guess they wanted the big creepy pile of dead guys to be their marketing hook but really wanted to do a more conventional murder mystery with an evil business conspiracy vs a kind young activist woman who was tragically murdered. 

I think that Danvers and Navarro are more interested in who killed Annie, and wasn't the pile o'dead scientists hauled off to Anchorage and the case taken away from Danvers?   Navarro had known Annie and I think that Danvers got emotionally involved once she saw that video footage and heard Annie screaming.   My bet is that both cases are going to be tied together.  They will solve the scientists' deaths when they solve Annie's.

I just read something online that said according to the director/writer,  we've been seeing the guilty party throughout the episodes.  Hank said that he didn't kill Annie, and (unless we're being led on a really bizarre goose chase), it wouldn't be Navarro or Danvers.  Who else could it be?  Rose? Navarro's boyfriend (oh I hope not!), the Head Cop (the one having sex with Danvers), Pete???  We know the mine woman has something to do with all of this, but could she be the actual murderer?   I'm on tinderhooks waiting for the next episode! 

[snarts]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It feels like the show is way more interested in who killed Annie than what happened to the scientists, I guess they wanted the big creepy pile of dead guys to be their marketing hook but really wanted to do a more conventional murder mystery with an evil business conspiracy vs a kind young activist woman who was tragically murdered. 

I agree, and the without the tongue there's no way these cases would've been linked. Curious who kept the tongue for six years and then left it at the lab, because it's the only reason they've got this far in the investigation.

If the mine has been poisoning the water for six years and the natives have continued to protest, why did it take this long for there to be additional murders?

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I think that Hank wasn't going to shoot Danvers, but (correct me if I'm wrong),  I think that he used her gun to kill Otis.  My guess is that he intended to frame Danvers for the murder of Otis.  His plan was foiled when Navarro and Pete came upon the scene.  It seems to me that he then decided to commit" suicide by cop" when he aimed the gun at Danvers essentially forcing Pete to shoot him.   He apparently thought that death was going to be a better option for him than spending the rest of his life in jail (if the mine boss didn't get to him first).  

Yeah, they're going to have to tie up a lot of loose threads (and hopefully solve both mysteries) next week.  I hope that our  3 heroes all survive at the end.  

And does anybody know if there is a soundtrack list for the music?  At the very least does anybody know the name of the song that Hank was singing when his son came to the house?  It sounds familiar but I can't come up with the name of it.  

There was an interview. issa saw the actor singing and said he must sing in the show. He wrote it. I will look for the article. 
 

https://apple.news/Ad6MS3ICyTN2xYrgFq0fE2w

the paragraphs in question:

“h, man. You brought up Hank’s musical background—what's the song you're singing and playing on the guitar earlier in this episode? I was googling the lyrics and couldn't find anything.

I just love that there's something that's not on the internet. I love that there's still some mystery left in the world. Once I'd agreed that, yeah, Hank can play music, I wrote the instrumental and sent it to Issa before we'd even arrived in Reykjavik to begin shooting. And then I played a show in Iceland and Issa came and saw the show, and afterwards said, "I think Hank has to sing. I think that there has to be lyrics."

[Accidental Martyr]

8 hours ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

I think that was creative license or Navarro hallucinating.   There's an excellent documentary titled A Certain Kind of Death (on YouTube) about people who die without anyone to make burial arrangements.  For the indigent who are unclaimed after a period of time, they cremate.   First was the cremation process, then it cools and is raked into a pan and put through a grinder type of thing before being boxed.   Ask A Mortician goes into much more detail about exactly what happens at each step: 

https://youtu.be/6TSFX-hFgIk?si=TjKeCdPcowOE_NO7

 

A Certain Kind of Death is a really good documentary. I saw it at a film festival back when it came out. That was what I immediately thought of when I saw the opening scene.

[LaylaGirl]

On 2/10/2024 at 7:13 AM, RedInk said:

I got the impression he wasn’t going to kill her. Worse and more cowardly - I think he forced his own son to shoot him by pointing the gun at Liz.

This is exactly what I thought. He cleared his conscious a bit by telling them that he wasn't the killer, he just moved the body. He knew he was in too deep and that on top of his "girlfriend" not showing up made him want to die, but he was too much of a coward to do it himself.

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Poor Peter, I think that Hank deliberately got Peter to kill him so that he wouldn't have to take his own life, like the cowardly asshole he is.

That's certainly possible, but I actually didn't read it that way. He kept telling his son blood was thicker than water or words to that affect. Once he killed Otis he was pretty much going to have to kill Danvers so I thought he was just trying to convince his son they needed to be on the same team about this.

[Snapdragon]

6 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

 

I just read something online that said according to the director/writer,  we've been seeing the guilty party throughout the episodes.  Hank said that he didn't kill Annie, and (unless we're being led on a really bizarre goose chase), it wouldn't be Navarro or Danvers.  Who else could it be?  Rose? Navarro's boyfriend (oh I hope not!), the Head Cop (the one having sex with Danvers), Pete???  We know the mine woman has something to do with all of this, but could she be the actual murderer?   I'm on tinderhooks waiting for the next episode! 

It's obviously Prior's wife's grandma.  She's been skulking around in the background all suspicious like this entire time. 

[Affogato]

I’m thinking the picture Dylan draws of the Innuit goddess of the environment who cuts off her fingers to make sea creatures and the crab factory women may be connected to the story.  It isn’t a strong thread, though. 

[pasdetrois]

11 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

It's obviously Prior's wife's grandma.  She's been skulking around in the background all suspicious like this entire time. 

Don't mess with Native grandmas or aunties.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Don't mess with Native grandmas or aunties.

Grandmas are so invisible that it is practically a license to kill. 

[meep.meep]

The rule of Paycheck Size* implies that it's either Christopher Eccleston's or Fiona Shaw's character who committed the murders.

 

*which I just made up.  

[Bannon]

I've not found the writing, in terms of dialogue or plotting, to be anywhere close to the acting talent, and that's really unfortunate. As far as direction, when a major character like Navarro has a miraculous recovery from a severe beating, within a few days, well, that's just really lazy. Ugh.

This season rubs me the same way the previous saesons have; great early potential and acting that fizzles out, due to subpar writing.  

[aghst]

On The Ringer podcast, they said Hawkes, the actor playing Hank,

Spoiler

said that Hank is the one who cut out Annie’s tongue.

Maybe it will be confirmed in the finale.

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, aghst said:

On The Ringer podcast, they said Hawkes, the actor playing Hank,

  Reveal spoiler

said that Hank is the one who cut out Annie’s tongue.

Maybe it will be confirmed in the finale.

Why is the question. Good gravy. 

[txhorns79]

I did like that the moment Pete shot his father and just went into shock, Danvers first move was to immediately run to comfort him.   

I also liked that Save Tonight (it played over the end credits), that late 90s Eagle Eye Cherry pop hit, was yet another song that has been remastered into something dark and foreboding.

Edited February 14 by txhorns79

[Texasmom1970]

On 2/10/2024 at 11:04 AM, DesiJF said:

I thought the very same thing!!  How do those people run around in t-shirts in the middle of winter?  And you definitely have the covers pulled up to your nose at night.  Or is that just me? LOL

Count me in as wondering why they don't have on warmer pajamas.

But the entire season what has bugged me the most is the windows. Every person has the shades or blinds open. I know the view of the snow is pretty but how do they keep their homes warm enough?

I know with all that is happening here I am fixated on this!

😃

[Cotypubby]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:01 AM, sweetandsour said:

Also, this show absolutely does not deserve to be nominated for any awards for Hair and Makeup.  Not because the hair and makeup they've done has been bad, but because of the seemingly conscious decision of I have to assume Issa Lopez to have zero sign of Navarro's beatdown in episode 5.  I gave them some benefit of the doubt last episode because Navarro had her beanie on and I thought, "maybe that's covering the serious cuts," even though there was very little swelling and bruising shown.  But in episode 5, Navarro looks totally normal even without the beanie.  People have tiny whiteheads that make longer and more obvious appearances than Navarro's fight wounds. 

Episode 4 took place on Dec 24, Episode 5 was on Dec 31.

On 2/11/2024 at 1:00 AM, Penman61 said:

That's fine, but slab avalanches don't happen IN FLAT AREAS, which is clearly where the scientists were found. Also, like other avalanches, there would have been plenty of obvious recent evidence that an AVALANCHE had just happened; they even have a geology teacher to help with that. Also, an avalanche would NOT have resulted in the corpsicle; the bodies would have been strewn AWAY from each other, not intertwined like they were playing Arctic Twister. Finally, did the victims have time to REMOVE AND CAREFULLY FOLD THEIR CLOTHES as the avalanche approached?

I’m all-capping here because I'm getting frustrated with this show's writers not doing their one job: Make me suspend my disbelief. It's just lazy, and I guess they're counting on us not paying attention...to a crime mystery story. <sigh>

I mean... it's pretty obvious we aren't supposed to take that explanation as true and that what actually happened will be revealed in the finale.

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

But the entire season what has bugged me the most is the windows. Every person has the shades or blinds open. I know the view of the snow is pretty but how do they keep their homes warm enough?

As someone who has lived through multiple "polar vortices" here in the midwest with temps falling below zero and staying there for days on end, I can relate. You are just never able to shake the chill, even with the furnace in good working order, and you spend every waking moment terrified the electricity will fail and you will freeze to death. Forget about black water coming out of the pipes, it's a wonder their pipes aren't frozen solid.

However, I do know people who walk around in shorts and t-shirts even with it's zero degrees outside. I guess some people just don't feel the cold like others do.

[Affogato]

21 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Episode 4 took place on Dec 24, Episode 5 was on Dec 31.

I mean... it's pretty obvious we aren't supposed to take that explanation as true and that what actually happened will be revealed in the finale.

The first episode identifies the day the tsalal scientists leave as 12.20 and Danvers says at least 48 hours based on mayo and laundry, so 12.22. 
 

 

Edited February 15 by Affogato

[juliet73]

My brain apparently isn't firing on all cylinders because I just can't keep up with what is going on.  Half the time I forget about the scientists, or the tongue, or the swirly symbol, or who the heroin addict is, or why there are so many dead babies, etc.  Is it just me, or is this season just all over the board? I thought about rewatching the previous episodes, but meh.  If someone wants to give a quick summary of what is happening, I would greatly appreciate it!

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, juliet73 said:

My brain apparently isn't firing on all cylinders because I just can't keep up with what is going on.  Half the time I forget about the scientists, or the tongue, or the swirly symbol, or who the heroin addict is, or why there are so many dead babies, etc.  Is it just me, or is this season just all over the board? I thought about rewatching the previous episodes, but meh.  If someone wants to give a quick summary of what is happening, I would greatly appreciate it!

Funnily enough, I did a rewatch yesterday, fastforwarding through the dull sister, stepdaughter, and community stuff that I found slow and only marginally related to the plot. Even then, the actual true detectiving was so cut up into little scenes by the edit, it often felt like watching a music video. This was not helped by the vocal track being too low in the mix with loud music and so on  overpowering it, so I watched the entire thing with subtitles on, and caught a few more facts. Even so, I cannot give you much of summary!

After the initial episode, and bringing the bodies of the scientists back into town to thaw on the ice rink, very little attention was paid to how they might have died (with some of their clothes only found, folded, near by - with all this 'Ask the right questions!' I would have thought someone might have asked, 'Who folded their clothes?') and far more effort seeming to go into the old Annie K case, especially once they found the link between the scientists and Annie K, apart from her tongue being found at the crime scene, which was that Raymond Clark (who as the bodies thawed was discovered to not be among the dead) and she were having some sort of affair conducted in the creepy trailer he bought for the purpose, as she wanted it kept secret.

I even read some really thorough recaps of each episode on Vulture, and I still can't summarise the plot! It seemed as if any time a conversation was about to progress understanding of the scientists' case, it would be interrupted, and often by one of the dull sister/stepdaughter subplots - so Danvers would be on route to stop the bodies being removed to Anchorage and stop to help the sister running about semi-naked in the snow, driving her back to the station rather than calling it in, and next thing you know the bodies are gone.

It was also extremely difficult, even with the little flashes of the date and number of days of night, to work out what was happening when, and no-one other than cleaning ladies very early on seemed to be interviewed, and even then it was in an informal setting and sketchily done. I found it astounding on rewatch to realise nobody formally sat Rose Aguineau down after she was the one to find the bodies, even to ask, 'Did you fold their clothes?'!

Edited February 16 by violet and green
typos

[alvajon]

Maybe I should wait for the upcoming final episode that may or may not explain everything, but, for now, without going back and rewatching the previous episodes, I just cannot recollect the whole “Wheeler” character and that situation.  I get most of the stories, and but If someone would be so kind to explain it in a nutshell before ep. 6 that would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks. 

[violet and green]

11 minutes ago, alvajon said:

I just cannot recollect the whole “Wheeler” character and that situation.  

William Wheeler was a violent, abusive man who, back 6 or 7 years ago when they worked together, Navarro and Danvers were called out to ten times, Prior said, and who put his girlfriend into hospital twice. Then he shot her and was sitting there when they arrived. He whistled Twist and Shout knowingly at Danvers. (I think it may have something to do with the car accident that killed her husband and son.) Either she or Navarro shot him and then said he was dead when they got there. But he was lefthanded and they shot him on the right temple. They doctored the photos, but Prior figured it out care of a birthmark... Hank got into his computer and now their boss Ted knows and he is using it as leverage to shut up Danvers from pursuing the cases currently.

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, violet and green said:

Funnily enough, I did a rewatch yesterday, fastforwarding through the dull sister, stepdaughter, and community stuff that I found slow and only marginally related to the plot. Even then, the actual true detectiving was so cut up into little scenes by the edit, it often felt like watching a music video. This was not helped by the vocal track being too low in the mix with loud music and so on  overpowering it, so I watched the entire thing with subtitles on, and caught a few more facts. Even so, I cannot give you much of summary!

After the initial episode, and bringing the bodies of the scientists back into town to thaw on the ice rink, very little attention was paid to how they might have died (with some of their clothes only found, folded, near by - with all this 'Ask the right questions!' I would have thought someone might have asked, 'Who folded their clothes?') and far more effort seeming to go into the old Annie K case, especially once they found the link between the scientists and Annie K, apart from her tongue being found at the crime scene, which was that Raymond Clark (who as the bodies thawed was discovered to not be among the dead) and she were having some sort of affair conducted in the creepy trailer he bought for the purpose, as she wanted it kept secret.

I even read some really thorough recaps of each episode on Vulture, and I still can't summarise the plot! It seemed as if any time a conversation was about to progress understanding of the scientists' case, it would be interrupted, and often by one of the dull sister/stepdaughter subplots - so Danvers would be on route to stop the bodies being removed to Anchorage and stop to help the sister running about semi-naked in the snow, driving her back to the station rather than calling it in, and next thing you know the bodies are gone.

It was also extremely difficult, even with the little flashes of the date and number of days of night, to work out what was happening when, and no-one other than cleaning ladies very early on seemed to be interviewed, and even then it was in an informal setting and sketchily done. I found it astounding on rewatch to realise nobody formally sat Rose Aguineau down after she was the one to find the bodies, even to ask, 'Did you fold their clothes?'!

I think the vet established the scientists died afraid, and the bodies went to Fairbanks for the autopsies, which were apparently limited in scope. Someone knows how they died, I’m guessing, and wants it covered up.

I’m reminded of “Ellery Queen”, at some point in each episode the show would stop and Ellery would tell you that you had all the information to solve the mystery, and then the rest of the show would lay out what happened. You probably would like the show, as I remember it, long time ago. 

As far as this show goes, if you aren’t interested in the personal stories of the characters, it just likely isn’t the story for you, but that is furthering the mystery in its own way. Leah taking part in the protests does show the ongoing damage the mining company is causing, as well as motivating Liz, once she pays attention. I’m guessing Annie either was killed or died because of the mine. Did Hank brutalize Annie’s body after he dropped her off, or did someone else? Connolly’s relationship with Danvers is clearly a problem for him, was that why she was moved back to Ennis/ Who has been carrying the tongue around all these years and dropped it at the Tsalal lab? Possibly, why did someone decide the men in the lab were a liability. 

I think this is more a story where, once we learn the last bit of information, it all falls into place. With maybe a little supernatural woo woo hanging over it. Either that or they plan the next season and there is a cliffhanger. 

I think the answer is in the cave. There is a big piece of the puzzle we haven’t gotten yet. 

Edited February 16 by Affogato

[violet and green]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

I think the vet established the scientists died afraid, and the bodies went to Fairbanks for the autopsies, which were apparently limited in scope. Someone knows how they died, I’m guessing, and wants it covered up.

The vet established they died before they were frozen. The bodies went to Anchorage. It doesn't matter how they died - Earth/Gaia rising up in protest, or some primordial evil spirit coming for them and terrifying them to death, a one-eyed white polar bear chasing them out of the facility, or a slab avalanche (none of which would have folded their clothes!) - because this show decided to focus on other aspects than solving the mysterious deaths of the scientists.

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

As far as this show goes, if you aren’t interested in the personal stories of the characters, it just likely isn’t the story for you, but that is furthering the mystery in its own way. Leah taking part in the protests does show the ongoing damage the mining company is causing, as well as motivating Liz, once she pays attention. I’m guessing Annie either was killed or died because of the mine.

I don't think there's any doubt about that! They shoved it down our throats with every episode; it was hardly subtle. Multiple examples of foul water, and characters talking about the mine and it effects, and the knowledge Annie K was an annoyance to the mine in her persistence. My objection to the personal stories was they slowed the momentum of the investigation, such as it was.

 

 

[aghst]

If they just stuck to scenes of the investigation, it would be a 2-hour movie, not a 6-episode season of 1 hour episodes.

I'm sure previous TD seasons have this padding to go over B-plots that wasn't directly related to the main case story.

In fact, in the streaming era, a lot of show seasons are like that, they could fold the main season arc into a couple of hours but they have to deliver 6 or 8 or 10 episodes.

Back in the broadcast and basically cable days, they had to deliver 2 dozen episodes a season so you had a lot of stand-alone episodes and there wasn't often one overarching story for the whole season.

 

[violet and green]

True Detective, season one, was 8 episodes. There was no need for "padding".

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

True Detective, season one, was 8 episodes. There was no need for "padding".

Really? The first season actors are always strangely compelling, I mean that, but I don’t remember it being focused on investigating the fairly simple, if horrific, macguffin that let the two leads drive around the state.  I also remember a lot of personal drama unrelated to the mystery. But it was buddy cop version, two men. For all of the importance Harrelson put on family, we didn’t learn a lot about his family. 

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, violet and green said:

The vet established they died before they were frozen. The bodies went to Anchorage. It doesn't matter how they died - Earth/Gaia rising up in protest, or some primordial evil spirit coming for them and terrifying them to death, a one-eyed white polar bear chasing them out of the facility, or a slab avalanche (none of which would have folded their clothes!) - because this show decided to focus on other aspects than solving the mysterious deaths of the scientists.

I don't think there's any doubt about that! They shoved it down our throats with every episode; it was hardly subtle. Multiple examples of foul water, and characters talking about the mine and it effects, and the knowledge Annie K was an annoyance to the mine in her persistence. My objection to the personal stories was they slowed the momentum of the investigation, such as it was.

 

 

Yeah, i get that you don’t like it and it isn’t what you want. It isn’t far from the first season, though, but so far the character notes are richer and the people are drawn better. It is certainly a story where several of the characters and moments will be more memorable than the mystery and I’m okay with that. It isn’t a linear story. 

[violet and green]

The first season was well-written, well-plotted, and well-paced. The lead detectives had an interesting relationship. Rusty Cohle was a fascinating character who had some of the most breathtaking lines in television history. The philosphical underpinnings of his dialogue fit and enhanced the mood of the production. The acting was phenomenal by the two seasoned leads. None of the supporting cast seemed like amateur actors roped in. The cinematography was a character of its own. The mood of the piece was not destroyed by ham-fisted pop songs, dropped in loudly, obscuring the poor dialogue. To say this season, which should have been a stand-alone show, and not released under the TD banner, has 'richer' and 'better drawn' characters is quite a stretch.

Maybe you can write a synopsis of the plot so far, which was the question that prompted my post. It is quite a thankless task.

[aghst]

On Reddit, there are comparisons to this season being like a telenovela.

Oh I get it, the show runner is a Latina!

😒

[Affogato]

And yet I watched the first season after this started and I don’t know why Harrelson’s character valued his family and, while McConaughey (may have misspelled)?was watchable, he was kind of one note to me.  I’m really bored by the traumatized hunter of serial killers and my eyes glazed over. I don’t carry much with me but I bet I am never going to forget the Priors. 

[pasdetrois]

I adored the first season, in part because I grew up in southwest Louisiana. That season portrayed the region very well. The two leads had fantastic acting chemistry, and the plot unfolded in a compelling way without too many diversions. However upon a recent re-watch, I kept wishing for Cohle to hush his mouth.

[berecet]

12 hours ago, Affogato said:

And yet I watched the first season after this started and I don’t know why Harrelson’s character valued his family and, while McConaughey (may have misspelled)?was watchable, he was kind of one note to me.  I’m really bored by the traumatized hunter of serial killers and my eyes glazed over. I don’t carry much with me but I bet I am never going to forget the Priors. 

The first season is an absolute masterpiece. Also because it is vastly different from your usual cop-serial killer story in which the WHO is the theme. TD1 was way more about the painful and ardeous hunt itself and what it does to the characters involved and how their personal outlook on life ties into the world of crime.

Don't mean to be patronizing but imo your sentences show that you have missed the point of that season. Just exemplary: Harrelson's phony outlook on religion and family are challenged ("You wonder ever...if you're a bad man?"). McConaughey's challenge is more intervowen with the case itself cause his philosophy of pessimism and bleak outlook on life is cured - to a point - by finishing what they started. It fundamentally changes them as human beings. It is cathartic: "We...left something undone. We gotta fix it."

If you like this season more than the first, that's of course up to you. I think it is worse than TD1 and TD3, maybe on par with TD2 depending on the finale tomorrow. But in terms of depth, this season doesn't come close to TD1. And not only cause there is 2 less episodes. 

[KittyQ]

A little off topic, but this is the second show I've watched lately that was either set in or shot in Iceland. For whatever flaws this show has, it beats A Murder At the End of the World in most ways. For one thing, this show really manages to convey the sense of cold, dark, and isolation and how they affect people in multiple ways. I hope that the resolution to this show is also more gripping than that one.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I adored the first season, in part because I grew up in southwest Louisiana. That season portrayed the region very well. The two leads had fantastic acting chemistry, and the plot unfolded in a compelling way without too many diversions. However upon a recent re-watch, I kept wishing for Cohle to hush his mouth.

Yes, I would place money on the first season being fantastic to watch in once a week installments, over time, and i enjoyed it while I was watching it,  but when it was over it left a flat aftertaste.   It does lean into the local atmosphere, as does the current show. The two men always have incredible chemistry and are watchable. At the end, though, I wasn’t sure that anyone had changed or grown, or if they had, that i understood why that happened.  I get that, when you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back at you. Then you go to your friend’s house and live in the guest room until you die of liver failure? Write the abyss a poem, bake it cookies, do something with it.

(Do we think Rose is Rust’s mother, by the way?  She is baking and cooking for the abyss, someone has to do it). 

[sjankis630]

On 2/15/2024 at 1:14 PM, juliet73 said:

Half the time I forget about the scientists,

This kind of has me a little upset. If I am honest a mystery where 5 scientists are killed and found frozen together out in the middle of the snow is way more interesting than an old murder mystery and an "evil mining company" I will watch the last episode tomorrow but I am ready to move on at this point.

[violet and green]

I think the show itself forgot about the scientists. It will be interesting to see how they wrap it all up tomorrow.

I woke up this morning thinking about the Wheeler case, and how he couldn't have shot himself in the right or left temple with that shotgun he had laying on his lap.

I expect it will all be answered in the final five minutes of the episode - that seems to be where all the action plot-wise occurs. Maybe Prior will ring up Danvers and say, I've found the final link, and she'll go, hot damn, well done, son, you did good. And then an orange will roll into shot by her feet, maybe the one-eyed bear will wink, and Billy Eilish will wail out another song.

I feel sad, as I have been looking forward to this season since I first heard it was happening and was set in the snow.

[iMonrey]

On 2/16/2024 at 4:21 PM, aghst said:

If they just stuck to scenes of the investigation, it would be a 2-hour movie, not a 6-episode season of 1 hour episodes.

And that's kind of the problem. It absolutely feels like a 2-hour movie that's been padded into six hours. 

[juliet73]

Thank you Violet and Green and everyone else for trying to explain what is going on.  One of my issues with this season is there are too many additional characters and too many subplots. It's taking away from the main mystery which I thought was supposed to be the scientists.  I watched the previous seasons over the last few months so they are still fresh in my memory (kind of).  S1 and S3 had "subplots" about their personal lives but those were more of supporting storylines for lack of a better term and I think they helped with the character development, etc. Even S2 (which I didn't think was that great of a season) had more main characters and subplots (VV and his baby making drama, the cop who was gay, CF and his wife/son issues, etc), solving the crime was always the focal point in every single episode.  S5 between figuring out the scientists, we also have to deal with Navarro's sister, Danvers' daughter, the freshmen cop and his wife kicking him out, freshmen cop's dad and his loneliness who is also helping some shady corporation, the protests, the swirly symbol, Navarro's and Danvers past case of killing the guy, the tongue, Navarro and Rose seeing dead people, the night country stuff... It's just too much!  

[Affogato]

On 2/17/2024 at 9:41 AM, berecet said:

The first season is an absolute masterpiece. Also because it is vastly different from your usual cop-serial killer story in which the WHO is the theme. TD1 was way more about the painful and ardeous hunt itself and what it does to the characters involved and how their personal outlook on life ties into the world of crime.

Don't mean to be patronizing but imo your sentences show that you have missed the point of that season. Just exemplary: Harrelson's phony outlook on religion and family are challenged ("You wonder ever...if you're a bad man?"). McConaughey's challenge is more intervowen with the case itself cause his philosophy of pessimism and bleak outlook on life is cured - to a point - by finishing what they started. It fundamentally changes them as human beings. It is cathartic: "We...left something undone. We gotta fix it."

If you like this season more than the first, that's of course up to you. I think it is worse than TD1 and TD3, maybe on par with TD2 depending on the finale tomorrow. But in terms of depth, this season doesn't come close to TD1. And not only cause there is 2 less episodes. 

I didn’t watch true detective before this and probably won’t watch the two middle seasons. I’m not hugely interested in police procedures and long ago had watched enough serial killer procedurals. Yes, I see they are changed, but they didn’t actually make me care. I would have liked it more if I’d seen it week by week, and seen it with someone who was interested in talking about it. It seemed very much like something I’d seen before, one way or another. Maybe, should I ever watch it again, I will feel differently about it, maybe not. 

[millennium]

On 2/10/2024 at 3:30 PM, gail56 said:

So they are saying an avalanche killed the scientists.

This is the start of the cop-out.   And the way it was presented was like, "oh, by the way, it was an avalanche killed them, so just forget all that weird supernatural shit we've been spoon-feeding you for four episodes now.  Why did the guy say 'she's awake?"   Truth is, we don't know.   Thanks for watching, suckers."

[Snapdragon]

3 minutes ago, millennium said:

This is the start of the cop-out.   And the way it was presented was like, "oh, by the way, it was an avalanche killed them, so just forget all that weird supernatural shit we've been spoon-feeding you for four episodes now.  Why did the guy say 'she's awake?"   Truth is, we don't know.   Thanks for watching, suckers."

No one thought it was an avalanche.  The mine (or company that runs the mine), wants the investigation shut down because they were involved with some shenanigans with the scientists and they know the longer the investigation goes on, the more likely it is that that comes to light.  They've got some pull so I'm guessing they paid somebody off (or applied some pressure) to get the avalanche report as the official cause of death.