Season 4 Discussion Thread

[crankcase]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I just don't believe Siegfried would have been so intimidated by her, and unable to find his voice to say no to her authority.

MISS Harbottle would have made an intelligent, accomplished, physically attractive, age-appropriate romantic companion for Siegfried if he weren’t already promised to Audrey. She was there because they had danced together. The intimidation was sexual. It’s normal.

[Dowel Jones]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Llywela said:

 Also, don't underestimate how attached people get to the way of life they are accustomed to. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune adopting new technology when they are perfectly happy with what they already have.

Especially when it's Francois that does all the heavy and dirty work of starting and keeping a coal fire going.

[iMonrey]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:12 PM, crankcase said:

MISS Harbottle would have made an intelligent, accomplished, physically attractive, age-appropriate romantic companion for Siegfried if he weren’t already promised to Audrey.

? I know some have speculated that the show wants to pair Siegfried and Mrs. Hall romantically, but I just don't see it. She has had an ongoing relationship with Gerald since last season. I've never perceived Siegfried to see Mrs. Hall in a romantic or sexual way, ever. The few strange glances he may have given her I've attributed to the fact that it never even occurred to him that someone else - like Gerald - would have romantic feelings for her, or that he never thought about her having any kind of romance with anyone. Kind of like how you never want to think about your parents having sex.

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I know some have speculated that the show wants to pair Siegfried and Mrs. Hall romantically, but I just don't see it.

I just don't see anything special in Siegfried, apart from having his own vet practice.  He's bossy, ill-humored, persnickety and argumentative.  What a catch!

[JudyObscure]

Aw.  Siegfried is intelligent, brave, and extremely kind hearted.  He also looks really cute with a rat peeking out from his vest.

But then, I admit I've loved Sam West since he played Leonard Bast in, "Howards End."

[BooksRule]

I've already deleted the episode from my DVR, but can anyone post the text of the exchange between the new vet and Francois about the poor dog's continuing flatulence?  Something about how the dog was doing and Francois said something about the odor making him want to go back to France. 'But France has been invaded'. 'Exactly' (but in French).

[crankcase]

The endgame of “Mrs. Hall” and Siegfried Farnon was formalized the moment an actor in this film signed a contract to play a character now with the same given name, Audrey, as the wife of the real-life person (Donald Sinclair) on whom Siegfried was based. (Given that Sinclair committed suicide two weeks after Audrey died, the use of her name is not to be taken lightly.) And there are not a whole lot of educated, middle-aged Englishmen (even among the unmarried) who could forbear romantic or sexual feelings for any woman who even remotely resembles Anna Madeley.  

Still can’t “see it”? Well, here is a woman who can.

As to Gerald, his ultimate role in this non-drama has already been described on p.35 of the ACGAS discussion thread that preceded this current one for Season 4, all episodes of which can be viewed here.

Edited January 26 by crankcase

[Badger]

7 hours ago, crankcase said:

The endgame of “Mrs. Hall” and Siegfried Farnon was formalized the moment an actor in this film signed a contract to play a character now with the same given name, Audrey, as the wife of the real-life person (Donald Sinclair) on whom Siegfried was based. (Given that Sinclair committed suicide two weeks after Audrey died, the use of her name is not to be taken lightly.) And there are not a whole lot of educated, middle-aged Englishmen (even among the unmarried) who could forbear romantic or sexual feelings for any woman who even remotely resembles Anna Madeley.  

Still can’t “see it”? Well, here is a woman who can.

As to Gerald, his ultimate role in this non-drama has already been described on p.35 of the ACGAS discussion thread that preceded this current one for Season 4, all episodes of which can be viewed here.

The entire season  (in fact, every season) is available if you have PBS Passport.

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, crankcase said:

Still can’t “see it”? Well, here is a woman who can.

No, I still don't see it, regardless of what some Vulture recapper is shipping, or anyone else for that matter. I mean, I can imagine it - but I don't see it happening. I haven't seen the slightest hint that Siegfried sees her that way or vice versa. None.

[7-Zark-7]

I remember two instances where the show has set up a Siegfried /Mrs. Hall romance.  Since I've binged the show on PBS Passport I'll put in spoiler tags:

Spoiler

Firstly, when Siegfried sees Mrs. Hall dressed for the Christmas party and stops in his tracks and secondly, when Siegfried is stunned to learn that Mrs. Hall has filed for divorce, and thinks that things with Gerald have advanced.

In reality, class differences at that time would have made a relationship between a housekeeper and a veterinarian unlikely. Also, she has been living in his home which would also make it scandalous. But then again the war did relax social rules.

Tristan brought a lot more to the show than I realized.  I don't feel like this season lives up to the previous ones.

[Packerbrewerbadger]

Did I miss what happened to the little girl evacuated from London who  was living With them last season ?  I’m glad she’s gone, I prefer small doses of children on this show. 
 

The dog reminded me of the boxer in the books with the same problem who lived with a gardener without the sense of smell ,  we dog sat a boxer back in the late 70’s when the old series was on and I had read the books. This dog would pass gas and then leave the room( laughing 😂). We literally carried around a can of Glade. Is it a trait of the breed?

[Orcinus orca]

1 hour ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

Did I miss what happened to the little girl evacuated from London who  was living With them last season ?  I’m glad she’s gone, I prefer small doses of children on this show. 

Wow, I forgot all about her?  Good question, where did she go?

[Driad]

The new vet, having been introduced to Mrs. Hall, thought Gerald was Mr. Hall.  By 1940 was it no longer the custom to address a middle-aged housekeeper as "Mrs.," whether she had ever been married or not? (Therefore one should not assume that a Mr. Hall existed.) If it was still the custom, maybe the new vet didn't know that, or maybe he was flustered or deficient on social graces.

[crankcase]

17 hours ago, 7-Zark-7 said:

I remember two instances where the show has set up a Siegfried /Mrs. Hall romance.  Since I've binged the show on PBS Passport I'll put in spoiler tags:

  Hide contents

Firstly, when Siegfried sees Mrs. Hall dressed for the Christmas party and stops in his tracks and secondly, when Siegfried is stunned to learn that Mrs. Hall has filed for divorce, and thinks that things with Gerald have advanced.

In reality, class differences at that time would have made a relationship between a housekeeper and a veterinarian unlikely. Also, she has been living in his home which would also make it scandalous. But then again the war did relax social rules.

A country vet is pretty low in the British class hierarchy. (From the far north of England, even lower.) He’s no Mr. Rochester. 

Audrey was not living in Skeldale House. As someone pointed out above, she’s been shown arriving early ro start breakfast. 

“Unlikely” is not never. Certainly it wasn’t for Virginia Woolf, from whose Mrs. Dalloway (1925) the following excerpt involving upper-class toffs at a large country estate is taken:

“It was at Bourton that summer, early in the 'nineties, when he was so passionately in love with Clarissa. There were a great many people there, laughing and talking, sitting round a table after tea and the room was bathed in yellow light and full of cigarette smoke. They were talking about a man who had married his housemaid, one of the neighbouring squires, he had forgotten his name. He had married his housemaid, and she had been brought to Bourton to call—an awful visit it had been. She was absurdly over-dressed, "like a cockatoo," Clarissa had said, imitating her, and she never stopped talking. On and on she went, on and on. Clarissa imitated her. Then somebody said—Sally Seton it was—did it make any real difference to one's feelings to know that before they'd married she had had a baby? (In those days, in mixed company, it was a bold thing to say.) He could see Clarissa now, turning bright pink; somehow contracting; and saying, "Oh, I shall never be able to speak to her again!" Whereupon the whole party sitting round the tea-table seemed to wobble. It was very uncomfortable.“

The entire novel can be read here.

A very faithful movie adaptation with Vanessa Redgrave can be found at:

www.kanopy.com (Free, legal, no ads)

 

[possibilities]

I always want to like the writing of Virginia Woolf more than I do. She has a terrible way with sentences. 

[Daff]

Worse than James???

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

This dog would pass gas and then leave the room( laughing 😂). We literally carried around a can of Glade. Is it a trait of the breed?

More often than not it's a matter of diet unless there is a medical issue. It would be interesting to know what the vets at Skeldale House feed their dogs. I don't know if commercially prepared dog kibble was widely available in the 1940s English countryside. Often dogs were just fed table scraps. Most "human food" is bad for dogs, but we can't resist given them some because they seem to want it so badly.

Edited January 28 by iMonrey

[Orcinus orca]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know if commercially prepared dog kibble was widely available in the 1940s English countryside.

Dog food came out in the late 1800's but I would imagine it took a while for people in rural areas to spend money on it.  Through most of history, animals ate whatever was left over from a meal.

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, Daff said:

Worse than James???

I never said that!

 

[Blergh]

I didn't loathe Christmas one-shot evacuee Eva but I think it would have helped had they dropped a line (e.g. 'Eva  found a fabulous stamp to put on that beautiful postcard from her family's new home in Australia- her OWN Oz!').

Nice to have Annie Chapman back  while  introducing her daughter Grace but it would have helped had they mentioned what had happened to Grace's son Tom's male co-parent. Had he ever been part of his son's life or had Annie and her own husband helped his mother Grace raise him from the beginning?

Interesting that Mrs. Pumphrey related a pleasant anecdote about her late husband Charles (IIRC in the OS I think his name might have been Arthur). However, I have some vague recollection of someone addressing Mrs. Pumphrey by her OWN first name but if that's the case, I can't think of what it might have been!  Regardless, it's interesting that the late Arthur Pumphrey had gotten Trickie's double-great-grandmother to start the line at Pumphrey Manor AND that she had been one of many dogs instead of an only dog like her descendant usually was!

I think the newbie will work out- though not without quite a few misunderstandings between himself and Siegfried in the process [which everyone dealing with Siegfried has had happen].

 

 

[Blackie]

I am a couple episodes behind. I  thought Helen was going to be helping out with the practice or did she get canned over the mutiple box order of gauze (?) debacle? It would make the most sense for Helen to be the office manager, she could take a book keeping course, she seems pretty bright. And even if she had a baby she could probably do both.

I'm sure vets these days still try to put the animals first but they most definitely run their practices as businesses.

When they are doing the procedure on the ferret, I thought it was Dr Pimple Popper the All Creatures Big and Small Edition. 😄

[possibilities]

I think Helen was spending a lot of time at her family's farm, so wasn't really the best choice to be bookkeeper, as she was busy elsewhere. 

I have not been excited about the baby story but they got me on board tonight with not wanting Helen to have a miscarriage. So, kudos, show. Good job sucking me in. I'm still not looking forward to it, but I'm invested enough not to want any tragedies.

Carmody was so incredibly terrible to the people at first, it's hard for me to understand how anyone could be just that bad. But I suppose some people are. He turned around pretty fast, though, so I guess he'll stick around. I wonder what happens when Tris comes back. Turf wars? Or, I suppose, he moves on to establish his own practice after the war?

I'm enjoying the plentiful animals since the season opener. Good course correction, show!

I didn't understand why the brucellosis didn't do in the rest of the calves after the first two. Is it not such a death sentence, after all? Did they just get lucky? Or did I miss the explanation?

Bernard was a good looking tortoise. 

The dogs rallying around Helen I thought was because she was sad, not because she was pregnant. Do dogs really go nuts over pregnancies? I have not seen that, but I haven't been pregnant (nor had a dog since I was a child), either. I do know that cats have always taken on the healer/comforter role whenever I'm upset about anything, though.

I can't imagine a baby in that house. Surely James and Helen will find their own place? 

[ML89]

Because I don’t have an eleventy billion inch TV, could anyone tell me what Mrs Hall’s letter said? thanks

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

Because I don’t have an eleventy billion inch TV, could anyone tell me what Mrs Hall’s letter said? thanks

It was from a law firm saying that her husband would not contest the divorce. 

[Dowel Jones]

I half-gasped at the recruiting poster briefly shown in one of the scenes:  "The Greatest Job in the World!  Work and Travel the Globe!" 

Build a railroad through Thailand,and watch thousands of your colleagues die in a horrible manner.  Suffer through the intense heat of the Sahara as you advance and retreat over worthless desert and see thousands more of your colleagues die. 

Such is the nature of recruitment.

[Daff]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

I half-gasped at the recruiting poster briefly shown in one of the scenes:  "The Greatest Job in the World!  Work and Travel the Globe!" 

Build a railroad through Thailand,and watch thousands of your colleagues die in a horrible manner.  Suffer through the intense heat of the Sahara as you advance and retreat over worthless desert and see thousands more of your colleagues die. 

Such is the nature of recruitment.

I’m thinking that the writers pulled that recruitment ploy from the wrong decade, as I remember it being used after they ended the draft in the US. I suppose it may have been employed in Britain, but I don’t see why it would be needed in a time when they were removing direction signs in anticipation of invasion.

[YorkshireLass]

7 hours ago, ML89 said:

Because I don’t have an eleventy billion inch TV, could anyone tell me what Mrs Hall’s letter said? thanks

 

6 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It was from a law firm saying that her husband would not contest the divorce. 

Thank you for asking & thank you for answering.  Tiny tv here too 😉.  Audrey looked like she had the weight of the world lifted off her shoulders when she read the letter so I assumed it was good news.

Like @possibilities, I'm so glad to see the show coming back to focusing on the animal stories.  If anything, I think by focusing on the animals, it makes the human stories even more relatable.  

I didn't feel the first two episodes of this season were up to All Creature's usual standards, but the last two have been very good and have given me the "feels".  To see the new farmers' neighbours coming to their rescue and to know Helen doesn't have brucellosis were very uplifting stories.  There was mention of Jenny & Helen's family's farm so maybe we'll get to see them (and the Irish Setter - a la @JudyObscure) in a future episode.

[ML89]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It was from a law firm saying that her husband would not contest the divorce. 

Thank you!

[AZChristian]

35 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Thank you!

I don't think it was just the size of the TV.  We have a 65" flat-screen, but the letter was shown so briefly we had to go back and pause that scene to have time to read it.  

Here you go:

 

[iMonrey]

If Mrs. Hall does not live at Skeldale House, why is her mail being delivered there? 

I was fairly certain Helen would test negative, so I was very frustrated when at first she said she didn't even want James to open the results. I'm glad they got this out of the way in one episode. It seems like James and/or Siegfried should have realized much sooner there was actually a test for brucellosis.

Carmody's training session was funny, with Mrs. Hall playing the part of vet customer and the dog obediently lying there as a patient. 

I'm not sure even a country vet would be called upon to treat a turtle. Or a bird (we've seen people in the waiting area with bird cages before). I'm sure they are well versed in animal husbandry - farm animals and cats and dogs. But turtles? Unlikely. 

[AZChristian]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If Mrs. Hall does not live at Skeldale House, why is her mail being delivered there? 

Perhaps for reasons of privacy?  If she lives in a boarding house or other place where other people live, she may not want them to see the return address from a solicitor's office.  

[AZChristian]

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure even a country vet would be called upon to treat a turtle. Or a bird (we've seen people in the waiting area with bird cages before). I'm sure they are well versed in animal husbandry - farm animals and cats and dogs. But turtles? Unlikely. 

I just did a quick search on the REAL veterinary practice on which the books and series are based.

According to one article, "The small practice, which up until this year served all manner of farm animals and pets in North Yorkshire, was first thrust into the spotlight when vet James Herriot - whose real name was Alf Wight - wrote a couple of memoirs about his 30 years as a vet there."

As of 2020, they are ONLY doing small animals - no more farm calls.

Bringing it to real-life modern day as an example of the original Skeldale practice, Dr. Pol will take care of any animal - from geckos to camels.  

[possibilities]

I don't really understand how removing the signs would help during an invasion. Surely an invading army would not be looking for specific addresses so much as seizing any and all?

[Orcinus orca]

13 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Surely an invading army would not be looking for specific addresses so much as seizing any and all?

In some cases there were specific targets such as radio stations.  In other cases, they were heading to other targets using the road system.

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Perhaps for reasons of privacy?  If she lives in a boarding house or other place where other people live, she may not want them to see the return address from a solicitor's office.  

The letter from the attorney as address to her at Skeldale House.  Since she is there all day, every day it makes sense for her to use that address.  Plus, as you said, there could be a privacy issue.

[Shelbie]

I assume that with Helen saying the baby is due in December that the Christmas special will be about the birth. 

[Sarah 103]

 

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

The dogs rallying around Helen I thought was because she was sad, not because she was pregnant. Do dogs really go nuts over pregnancies? I have not seen that, but I haven't been pregnant (nor had a dog since I was a child), either.

I have no idea but it seems plausible. Dogs can sense bio-chemical reactions in the human body. It's why dogs can be trained to let an owner know when blood sugar is low, or other medical conditions. Since there are hormonal changes that occur during pregnancy, it makes sense. 

 

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure even a country vet would be called upon to treat a turtle. Or a bird (we've seen people in the waiting area with bird cages before). I'm sure they are well versed in animal husbandry - farm animals and cats and dogs. But turtles? Unlikely. 

My understanding is that the practice covers everything. They will treat livestock and the dogs that help herd the livestock. They will also treat any kind of pet. 

Edited January 29 by Sarah 103

[possibilities]

I'm certain dogs can sense a pregnancy. I just didn't know why they assumed that was why they were so excited by it. I guess it would be annoying after 9 months of having them climb all over you, or dogs going nuts every time they see a pregnant person walking by. But I am probably overthinking a plot device.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I don't really understand how removing the signs would help during an invasion. Surely an invading army would not be looking for specific addresses so much as seizing any and all?

Defensive mechanisms can range from helpful to ridiculous/absurd in many cases.  Years (decades, actually) ago I worked for a rural county fire department here in California.  I dug up some old pamphlets from the 60s that directed all the fire stations in the county to change their identifier (Station 1 would be Station 20, etc.) as instructed in case of nuclear attack.  The belief was that it would confuse the Russian bombers as to their location as they flew up the Valley in search of their targets.  Really.

[iMonrey]

This latest episode - I'm glad they were able to save the cat, I got a lump in my throat when they talked about putting it down. Loved Mrs. Pumphrey giving Carmody a driving lesson and finally elevating him to "uncle" status.

I'm sort of mad at James. I get that there's a war on, and Helen wasn't pregnant when he signed up. But the fact remains he's leaving behind a pregnant wife, possibly making her a widow, when he doesn't have to. And they should have waited until after the war to try to have kids if there was a chance he might die in the war. 

I expect doctors and vets probably weren't actually on the front lines but rather tending to the horses and such, but still. 

I think the season overall has suffered a bit without Tristan, I don't know how it will do now without James, and is Mrs. Hall actually going to leave as well? Maybe this is the last season.

[Daff]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:21 PM, possibilities said:

I don't really understand how removing the signs would help during an invasion. Surely an invading army would not be looking for specific addresses so much as seizing any and all?

It’s actually a fact. As the threat of German invasion became apparent, all signposts in England were either taken down or switched to confound any invading troops. The idea was to buy time to get civilians to a place of safety and rally a defense for the town/village. Every area had the civil defense, made up of men who were too old, too young, exempted, or otherwise unfit for military duty. They patrolled nightly to ensure blackout measures were followed, took down the signposts, assigned bomb shelters, investigated black market complaints and ensured that the rationing rules were followed. The signpost removal was to confound the enemy who presumably were using maps, so it was to confuse them/delay them from reaching major targets for seizure. All of England’s towns and villages were connected by narrow, twisting, winding roads, and they attempted to use that fact to their defense. I often think of this defensive device as England’s “ride of Paul Revere”.

[peacheslatour]

I liked this episode a lot better than the previous ones. It's so hard, having read the books and knowing how everything happened and not being able to talk about it though.

[Orcinus orca]

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And they should have waited until after the war to try to have kids if there was a chance he might die in the war. 

The decision was mutual, they both decided to avoid waiting knowing that anything could happen.  A lot of young women during WWII wanted kids so that there would be something left of the husband if he was killed.  

It is a bit confusing at this point - the only ones left (apparently) will be Siegfried and Carmody.  Do we need to wait until the end of the war for everyone to get back together?  Is Audrey gone for good?  Why can't Gerald's sister move in with him in the village?

[Quilt Fairy]

48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And they should have waited until after the war to try to have kids if there was a chance he might die in the war. 

Should I point out the obvious?

 

51 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I expect doctors and vets probably weren't actually on the front lines but rather tending to the horses and such, but still. 

James (actually Alf) served in the RAF.  No need for vets in the air force. 

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think the season overall has suffered a bit without Tristan, I don't know how it will do now without James, and is Mrs. Hall actually going to leave as well? Maybe this is the last season.

If I were running the show, I would have James leaving for the war as the season finale, and then pick up a few years later when everyone is home or introduce new characters. I would pretty much completely skip the war years, which you can do because the show doesn't have children at the center. The actor playing Jennie can probably be dressed/styled differently to make her appear a few years older if they needed to. 

I did not get to post this last week because the boards were down. My guess is Carmody is in the Dales to do his part for the war effort, but does not plan on making that his full time home or where he will spend his career as a practicing Vet.

When Tristan comes back, he will try to pick up where he left off, and Carmody will go elsewhere. I think Carmody would probably be happiest in a research position, as opposed to directly interacting with patients and their owners/people. Tristan and Carmody will not be competing once the war is over and done. 

Edited February 5 by Sarah 103

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

Why can't Gerald's sister move in with him in the village?

I wondered the same thing.

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

Is Audrey gone for good?  Why can't Gerald's sister move in with him in the village?

I doubt she is really going to leave. I will be shocked if she really does.  I just don't believe she'll end up with Gerald.

As to why Gerald's sister can't just move in with Gerald? Plot contrivance to increase the angst factor.

I am really missing Tristan and his actor and I don't see how this show can survive the absence of James too.

You would think even if James is foolish enough to become cannon fodder that the military command would realize that young men like James are doing essential war work at home.

[chitowngirl]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I liked this episode a lot better than the previous ones. It's so hard, having read the books and knowing how everything happened and not being able to talk about it though.

Since we have full forum capabilities, should we start a Book Talk thread?

eta-Started one! 😊

Edited February 6 by chitowngirl

[libgirl2]

46 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I doubt she is really going to leave. I will be shocked if she really does.  I just don't believe she'll end up with Gerald.

As to why Gerald's sister can't just move in with Gerald? Plot contrivance to increase the angst factor.

I am really missing Tristan and his actor and I don't see how this show can survive the absence of James too.

You would think even if James is foolish enough to become cannon fodder that the military command would realize that young men like James are doing essential war work at home.

Mrs Hall won't leave. I get a get a feeling Gerald's sister won't want a divorced woman anywhere near her. 

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

Why can't Gerald's sister move in with him in the village?

That's what I wanted to know. 

Also, this is the first time she's shown what looked to me like genuinely intense feelings for Gerald. I like him a lot. I have always thought she didn't, though-- i.e. that he's nice enough, but she didn't seem to feel strongly. I think he'd make a much better husband than Siegfried, but I didn't think she show thought Audrey agreed.

Is Helen going to stay in town, or will she go back to the farm while James is away? What reason would she have to be it the vet practice with her baby, if not because that's where James is for his work?

[Orcinus orca]

44 minutes ago, magdalene said:

You would think even if James is foolish enough to become cannon fodder that the military command would realize that young men like James are doing essential war work at home.

WWII was a whole different animal.  Every young man capable of filling a role was accepted.  Even those who were not in the best shape were eventually taken.  My dad had horrible eyesight so they would never take him (despite his repeated attempts at enlisting) until 1945 when they finally got desperate enough to take him.  It didn't matter what your profession might be or, at that time, the fact that you had siblings serving at least until the five Sullivan brothers were all killed.