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Season 4 Discussion Thread

DanaK

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Badger
Badger

good news  

Orcinus orca
Orcinus orca

I fear that you are looking at this from a 2024 perspective.  In WWII everybody went if at all possible.  It was "for the greater good" mentality and as @tennisgurlsaid, the Nazis were only a channel

Daff
Daff

Well, well said. One of my favorite movies is Mrs. Minnever. Civilian fishing boats, pleasure craft, even dinghies all braved the treacherous (as the open sea) channel to evacuate the tired troops at

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

Half a crown was 30p, in a pre-decimal system where a pound was 240p. That's all I can tell you. If you need to understand the modern US equivalent, I recommend Googling for a currency converter.

(ETA Someone up-thread talked about slang terms, so I want to stress that shilling, crown, guinea etc aren't slang terms, they were defined, official measures of currency. If a character mentions a 'bob', though, that is a slang term, referring to a shilling.)

I think what would be helpful for the Americans trying to figure this out, is pre-decimal to decimal conversation. Once we have pre-decimal to decimal, we can type decimal into an exchange calculator, and then put that into an inflation calculator, or vice-versa. I'm not sure which makes sense to do first.

 

If someone else has another idea or if I've missed a necessary step, please post it. I feel totally confident that the people on this board can more or less crowdsource a way to get the answer.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I'm sure that Miss Harbottle would be a great help at a more traditional office, but she was an awful fit for this particular practice. Even beyond not understanding how their business works or attempting to understand, she was rude and snooty to their clients, doesn't even seem to like animals, and always looks like she's smelling something nasty. I knew she was gone as soon as she hid Siegfried's little rat buddy, now she's gone too far! 

Siegfried: "How do I deal with someone who's utterly stubborn, thinks that they're always right, and will never admit any fault."

Mrs. Hall: "...its a struggle." 

Glad they managed to save cute Blossom the cow, her farmer looked like he was about to cry when it was time to take her away.

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
2 hours ago, Daff said:

I didn’t say that. @NoReally did, and posted the (poem?). How many different coins are currently in use in England vs. number used in the old system, if anyone knows? I’d like to see a labeled display (not necessarily the values, just the names). Can you imagine what a set of play money looked like back then?

Types of coin currently in circulation: 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, £1 and £2

I found this display of pre-decimal coinage. It isn't as scary as that poem makes it sound! And, of course, the main point is that people tend to understand what is familiar to them. We know how our decimal systems work because we use them daily - the same was true for everyone who used the pre-decimal system. (ETA - also note: some of these coins were teeny tiny)$_86.JPG

 

Edited by Llywela
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YorkshireLass

YorkshireLass

On 1/15/2024 at 3:55 PM, Blergh said:

Forgive me but I'm not sure whether it was a foregone conclusion that Miss Harbottle was supposed to have been neurodiverse- or just a self-important jerk who expected everyone else connected to the practice  to conform to her own standards.

No, not a foregone conclusion at all.  I'll just say the following & then I'll leave this subject alone.  My hope was that by giving words to my thoughts it might be possible that others could look upon people like Miss Harbottle with a different eye.  Many people who are jerks relish the way their actions affect others.  They watch for those reactions and feed off of them.  Neurodiverse people often have no clue of the effect of what they are doing & saying has on those around them.  There were a multitude of other behaviours that lead me to suspect Miss Harbottle may be someone other than a jerk, but that would be a discussion to be had if we had a "Small Talk" thread.

 

On 1/15/2024 at 5:59 PM, Tiggertoo said:

Hey @YorkshireLass, you mentioned visiting in the spring.  I’m going to Yorkshire at the beginning of May. We’re studying just outside Harrogate.  I’m very excited and hoping for good weather!

 

That's a beautiful time of year to go Tiggertoo.  The bluebells & canola(they call it rapeseed) are in bloom and there are lambs in the fields.  Harrogate is a beautiful town.  Make sure you go to Betty's - it's a quintessential British experience (fair warning - it's expensive).  If you're looking for a nice place for lunch or dinner, The Ivy restaurant is right next door.  As far as the weather goes - you can get four seasons in a couple of hours 😄.   I hope you have a wonderful time!

I was hoping that when Helen got her bike & said she was off to the farm we might get to see her Dad & Jenny again.  Maybe later in the season.....

 

 

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Ancaster

Ancaster

On 1/16/2024 at 11:34 AM, Sarah 103 said:

I think what would be helpful for the Americans trying to figure this out, is pre-decimal to decimal conversation. Once we have pre-decimal to decimal, we can type decimal into an exchange calculator, and then put that into an inflation calculator, or vice-versa. I'm not sure which makes sense to do first.

 

If someone else has another idea or if I've missed a necessary step, please post it. I feel totally confident that the people on this board can more or less crowdsource a way to get the answer.

i just googled "convert 1 pound Sterling 1940 US dollar" and got a converter. Quite easy.

8 hours ago, Llywela said:

(ETA - also note: some of these coins were teeny tiny)$_86.JPG

 

To keep this on topic,  I'm sure Mre Hall spent a lot of time mending the men's pockets because of all the change they'd have carried.   Not to mention Siegfried's constant jingling!

I was born in 1963, 7 years before decimalization.  I know it's much more straightforward now,  but I love the old coins and system, and people's mental arithmetic was way better then! Everyone could ace the 12x table because of feet and inches.

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dancingdreamer

dancingdreamer

On 1/15/2024 at 11:08 AM, bigmag said:

I noticed that too, but IIRC earlier in the episode Siegfried (or maybe it was James) made some comment to the farmer at one of the prior visits about the difference in the climate between the farm and the surgery, specifically commenting on the snow. 

I'm just worried about the boy's Granny - was she left to live on her own in the little hole in the wall?

Granny's  hole in the wall , looked like my grandmother  house( not be shady) it's all she knew. We had to bring a tin tub into the kitchen to have a bath, it barely  had 3 rooms. The toilet was outside,  those granny's are a hardy bunch.

2 hours ago, Ancaster said:

i just googled "convert 1 pound Sterling 1940 US dollar" and got a converter. Quite easy.

To keep this on topic,  I'm sure Mre Hall spent a lot of time mending the men's pockets because of all the change they'd have carried.   Not to mention Siegfried's constant jingling!

I was born in 1963, 7 years before decimalization.  I know it's much more straightforward now,  but I love the old coins and system, and people's mental arithmetic was way better then! Everyone could ace the 12x table because of feet and inches.

1951 here, those coins were heavy. They felt wonderful  going into my moneybox( piggy bank? 

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possibilities

possibilities

We still haven't converted to the metric system in the USA, and I feel like it's fair to say that using inches, feet, and yards have not made our math skills any good. I doubt 10% of people in the USA know their 12x tables.

I also suspect not too many know how many feet in a mile, or how to calculate pretty much anything in their heads.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

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Dowel Jones

Dowel Jones

On 1/16/2024 at 2:27 PM, tennisgurl said:

Glad they managed to save cute Blossom the cow, her farmer looked like he was about to cry when it was time to take her away.

Unfortunately, Blossom's time is still limited.  Dairy cows must give birth in order to lactate and provide milk.  This means that Blossom will have to be inseminated, naturally or not, again in order to start the process all over, and it didn't look like she was in any condition to bear another calf.

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Ancaster

Ancaster

(edited)
13 hours ago, possibilities said:

We still haven't converted to the metric system in the USA, and I feel like it's fair to say that using inches, feet, and yards have not made our math skills any good. I doubt 10% of people in the USA know their 12x tables.

I also suspect not too many know how many feet in a mile, or how to calculate pretty much anything in their heads.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

No, that's my experience here too, sadly.  I don't expect everyone to be proficient beyond just simple arithmetic,  but it's a sad thing when people can't even make change from a dollar bill/pound coin.

Kids today!

Edited by Ancaster
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Calvada

Calvada

I finally managed to watch the first two episodes.  in the first, there was a trivial point that bothered me.  Why would Siegfried think Mrs. Hall would hide his tobacco in an area he could access?  And why did she do just that?  Wouldn't she have kept in her bedroom, a room presumably Siegfried wouldn't enter?  

I had to google just when Easter in 1940 was since I know the end of the Phony War came in April when Norway and Denmark were invaded by Germany.  Easter that year was on March 24, so the remarks about it not seeming like a war was happening or that it could all be over soon made sense.  Instead in days it will be apparent that the war isn't going to end any time soon, James may be called away, and bringing a child into the world may not seem like the best decision.  But it might not matter if James and Helen did "get cracking" immediately.

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Calvada

Calvada

(edited)
On 1/19/2024 at 7:28 PM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

The French folded like a deck of cards and  the evacuation of Dunkirk happened in late May 1940??? The war in England really started going during the blitz later in late July Aug.???

History geek here with some dates:  the Germans invaded Norway and Denmark on April 9, 1940 and they attacked France and the Benelux countries a month later on May 10.  That same day Churchill became Prime Minister.  The retreat to Dunkirk and subsequent evacuation took place from late May until June 3/4.  France surrendered to Germany the third week of June.  The Battle of Britain, or the air battle, is viewed by most historians as beginning in July 1940 and going through May 1941.  The night attacks, commonly known as the Blitz, were from early September 1940 through May 1941, and were directed at primarily civilian populations in London as well as other cities.    

Edited by Calvada
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possibilities

possibilities

Lambs sure are adorable.

A house like Mrs Pumfrey has... they don't heat it all in the winter, do they? How many fires would they need? The air would be thick with smoke. Even just to heat one room strikes me as it would be tough. The ceilings are so high and the rooms so large. I have heated with wood and it's astonishing how much you'd need an entire forest every year to keep that place habitable.

So, do they close off most of it for half the year, and just have a small cottage or something, that's warm? 

I seem to recall they had a Christmas party there, though, one winter. And it was in that large dining room. So... I don't know. Is this just a TV handwave, or did people actually heat mansions of that sort? Or does it not get as cold there as it gets here where I am, thus it's not so intolerable as I imagine?

I dread everything about the pregnancy story.

And I'm having a bad feeling about Gerald and Mrs Hall. I just don't think she's that into him, and I think he's going to get hurt, which I do not want to see.

The horse case was scary. I would have expected the horse to thrash in panic after being impaled. Was that a story anyone remembers from the books? 

I was glad to see so many animal stories. I'm sorry, Helen, I don't actually find your marriage interesting at all. 

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Lambs sure are adorable.

A house like Mrs Pumfrey has... they don't heat it all in the winter, do they? How many fires would they need? The air would be thick with smoke. Even just to heat one room strikes me as it would be tough. The ceilings are so high and the rooms so large. I have heated with wood and it's astonishing how much you'd need an entire forest every year to keep that place habitable.

So, do they close off most of it for half the year, and just have a small cottage or something, that's warm?

A house like Mrs Pumphrey's would have coal fires rather than wood. The British coal industry was still in its heyday going into WWII. You'd be surprised how cosy a coal fire can make a room - although granted, my grandfather's house was much smaller than Mrs Pumphrey's! And a coal fire once going lasts a good long time, far longer than wood. But no, they wouldn't have a fire lit in every room, only those that were in use - eta although being able to afford to heat multiple reception rooms even if not being actively used was an important status symbol, a sign of wealth for these big house families. Most of the reception rooms would be heated; empty bedrooms / other rooms not in use would be kept closed up (and unheated) whatever the season. Entire wings might be mothballed through the winter months, but Mrs Pumphrey wouldn't need to move out of her house to be warmer elsewhere, no.

There would be some smoke in the room, yes, but nowhere near as much as you seem to think. Unless blocked, chimneys tend to work pretty efficiently.

Edited by Llywela
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Daff

Daff

On 1/19/2024 at 3:05 PM, Calvada said:

Wouldn't she have kept in her bedroom, a room presumably Siegfried wouldn't enter?  

Noticed in the first episode, Mrs. Hall doesn’t live in. Don’t know why it’s taken till now for them to show us that. She arrived first thing in the morning, wearing her apron under her coat. She hung up her coat and went to the kitchen to see about breakfast.

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magdalene

magdalene

When I saw that poor horse standing there, impaled, I literally gasped in dismay. Obviously it was all fake but it looked very real.  I wasn't totally shocked or in disbelief that the horse was able to survive and recover because I know people can survive freak impalement depending on the location on the body.  To keep it that still though during the ordeal....

I feel bad for Gerald, I do, because he is a nice man but he just isn't quite right for Mrs.Hall.   Some day Gerald will realize this and get hurt.

I like the new assistant - it was so funny how Siegfried took to him right away - but I just really miss Tristan. I hope he can come home for leave at some point.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I knew something would happen to that poor horse, but I didn't think that he would end up being impaled! So glad they managed to save him, for the horse's sake as well as his owners mom and Siegfried, who are clearly projecting a lot of their own fears about their families serving onto the horse. This was the first episode that I thought really started getting into how the war is affecting people, which I thought was well done, and we know its just going to get worse. Of course Siegfried is worried about Tristan but is trying to keep a stiff upper lip, its hard for him to talk about his feels on a good day, let alone with all of this. 

Also glad that Mrs. Hall and Gerald cleared things up quickly, I like them a lot but I'm worried that Mrs. Hall doesn't quite feel the way about him that he does about her, I hope this doesn't end in a lot of sadness. 

Siegfried meets a mini Siegfried! I thought at first the new guy would be gone by the end of the episode like the secretary last week, but it seems like he's going to stay around. With Tristan gone and James probably getting called up soon, he's really going to need the help and the new guy seems competent, if inexperienced. It was hilarious watching Siegfried take to him so quickly, it took him forever to get used to James. 

James and Helen are having a baby, just like everyone here predicted! They were so cute being all excited, I swear for a second there would be a knock on the door at the end of the episode with a letter saying James was being called up. Its certainly going to happen soon I would guess. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Sometimes this show is difficult to watch for an animal lover. The horse being impaled on the fence was just horrific. 

I'm of two minds about James and Helen having a baby right now. On the one hand, I can see where having James' child would be a comfort to Helen if something were to happen to him. On the other hand, if it did, she'd be left a widow with a baby. If it were me I'd wait 'til the war was over.

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

A house like Mrs Pumphrey's would have coal fires rather than wood.

You would think that would fill the house with carbon monoxide. Wouldn't boilers and radiators have been invented by then?

I'm not too keen on Mr. Carmody just yet. I did get a kick out of Mrs. Pumphrey calling him Mr. Cardomy. With Tristan gone the show really can't afford to lose James, and Carmody isn't much of a substitute. 

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possibilities

possibilities

I realize the smoke would go outside, but I meant the outdoor air would be thick with smoke. I don't know what coal smoke smells like, but wood smoke is horrible, and in rural areas I've lived in (most of my adult life) where people were burning wood, you'd prefer the indoor air to out.

However, it may be that because Mrs Pumfrey's home is surrounded by a lot of wide open space, vs the places I've lived which were more obstructed by hills and forest, trapping the air more, it might not be as bad as what I've experienced. Also, I do have trouble breathing. generally.

I forgot that Mrs Hall doesn't live at Skeldale! I really thought she did.

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Wouldn't boilers and radiators have been invented by then?

They were but I am sure that is a very old building so it would all have to be retrofitted for ducts and so forth.  She's rich but I get something like that would cost a bloody fortune.

Watching that horse run through the countryside was pure poetry. What a gorgeous animal.

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

If anyone can figure out how to get French cheese and wine in the middle of the war, it's going to be Tristan. I picture him as first class scrounger, or someone who is acquiring the best of what is available for a high ranking military officer. Basically, I'm picturing Tristan as a version of the James Garner character in The Great Escape or The Americanization of Emily. 

As much as James always wants to put the animals first, it was good of Mrs. Pumfrey to remind him that there are a few things in life that matter more and that there are times you need to put loved ones first. I liked that both James and Helen realized they had been wrong. 

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Llywela

Llywela

(edited)
2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You would think that would fill the house with carbon monoxide. Wouldn't boilers and radiators have been invented by then?

Again, chimneys. People heated their homes with coal fires for centuries. Carbon monoxide poisoning was only a problem if there was inadequate ventilation. Chimney sweeps did an important job making sure the flues were kept clear.

Yes, boilers and radiators had been invented by then, but they weren't universally adopted all at once. It was more of a piecemeal rollout. As recently as the 1980s, my grandfather did not have central heating in his house.

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

They were but I am sure that is a very old building so it would all have to be retrofitted for ducts and so forth.  She's rich but I get something like that would cost a bloody fortune.

Exactly this. Also, don't underestimate how attached people get to the way of life they are accustomed to. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune adopting new technology when they are perfectly happy with what they already have. It tends to happen bit by bit over time. The rapid pace of change in today's society is unusual.

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I realize the smoke would go outside, but I meant the outdoor air would be thick with smoke. I don't know what coal smoke smells like, but wood smoke is horrible, and in rural areas I've lived in (most of my adult life) where people were burning wood, you'd prefer the indoor air to out.

The smell (and dirt) of coal fires (which, yes, was all pervasive, especially in towns and cities - and trains, too, ran on coal, let us not forget) was normal to them then in exactly the same way that the ubiquitous smell (and dirt) of car fumes is normal to us today.

Edited by Llywela
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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

14 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Also, don't underestimate how attached people get to the way of life they are accustomed to. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune adopting new technology when they are perfectly happy with what they already have.

Brings to mind the Dowager Lady Grantham (Downton Abbey) shielding her eyes from the electric lights and worrying about the "vapors" from them. And Lord Grantham installing electric lights upstairs but couldn't see the point of having them in the kitchens.

Are James and Helen going to stay at Skeldale when the baby is born?  Somehow I can't see Siegfried tolerating a wailing infant for very long.

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Daff

Daff

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You would think that would fill the house with carbon monoxide.

The flue. That’s why Chimney Sweep was a viable profession in those times. 

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

If anyone can figure out how to get French cheese and wine in the middle of the war, it's going to be Tristan. I picture him as first class scrounger, or someone who is acquiring the best of what is available for a high ranking military officer. Basically, I'm picturing Tristan as a version of the James Garner character in The Great Escape or The Americanization of Emily. 

As much as James always wants to put the animals first, it was good of Mrs. Pumfrey to remind him that there are a few things in life that matter more and that there are times you need to put loved ones first. I liked that both James and Helen realized they had been wrong. 

I was thinking along those lines as well. In charge of procurement!

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Kenzie

Kenzie

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I picture him as first class scrounger, or someone who is acquiring the best of what is available for a high ranking military officer.

Although in real life Tristan spent the war in North Africa tending to military horses, mules and camels, it's much more fun to think of him sashaying through Paris just as you described! 

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Haleth

Haleth

I really miss Diana Rigg.  I do like the lady portraying Mrs Pumfrey but I keep thinking of Diana Rigg.  The new Mrs P seems more grounded though, not as whimsical.  Loved her convo with Helen.

That poor horse.  I was convinced she was going to be hit by a car but fortunately (!) she was only impaled and didn't damage any organs.  Good job by the horse actor acting terrified.

The new assistant seems like a competent vet to help out when James is called up.  Glad he was shown that he doesn't know it all though and needs to defer to the experienced vets.

I knew Helen was pregnant before she did.  Her being irrationally angry at James at the party was a big clue.

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laredhead

laredhead

Coal was a major source of fuel into the 1950's in England.  I remember reading about a very bad smog/fog in London in the early 1950's.  This is a quote from an article about it:

The Great Smog of London, or Great Smog of 1952, was a severe air pollution event that affected London, England, in December 1952. A period of unusually cold weather, combined with an anticyclone and windless conditions, collected airborne pollutants—mostly arising from the use of coal—to form a thick layer of smog over the city. It lasted from Friday 5 December to Tuesday 9 December 1952, then dispersed quickly when the weather changed.

The smog caused major disruption by reducing visibility and even penetrating indoor areas, far more severely than previous smog events, called "pea-soupers". Government medical reports in the weeks following the event estimated that up to 4,000 people had died as a direct result of the smog and 100,000 more were made ill by the smog's effects on the human respiratory tract. More recent research suggests that the total number of fatalities was considerably greater, with estimates of between 10,000 and 12,000 deaths

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tljgator

tljgator

3 hours ago, Beezella said:

Thank you! Exactly what I was wondering, not so much the exact equivalent, but how pricey this would have been at the time.  However much, it would have been an insult.

On this side of the pond, you could've gotten a "shave and haircut" (**two bits**) and received a little change. 😉

This week's episode made me cringe/worry for several different reasons -- obviously, the horse was worrisome all-around, particularly the impaling; at first, the new vet's reactions worried me on the heels of last week's non-animal friendly Mrs. Harbottle & his initial comments about treating pets like people, but he evened out; I knew this show wasn't apt to be realistic in its presentation of racial interactions, but I was a little worried the soldiers from other towns would be unkind to our Black farming friends, but I was glad they volunteered to fix the fence.

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