S17.E07: A Honeymoon Rockier Than the Mountains

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I think he's intimidated by strong women. Like from his family. He can't take it. So, he is fabricating reasons to check out.

I never believed the attraction was there either.

Well, you just nutshelled it!  No reason for me to post, LOL.  😉

Yeah, I think he figured playing the race card was an easy way to check out because he thinks no one is going to question how he feels about that.  His feelings are his feelings.  But it was completely disingenuous.  And the irony is not lost on me of him taking this stance with a woman who's likely experienced more daily racial discrimination every week than he might have in his entire life if what he said about the times he's felt similar to this is true.  He is so wrapped up in his identity as a victim that he can't even see that he's picking THE most wrong person ever to cop that stance with.  I might even have more empathy for him if she were white.  

And it's obvious to me that he has issues and baggage with strong women, probably having felt controlled by them as a child, and now he's just going to think every woman that comes along is going to do that to him and project all of his baggage onto them.  I have to give Clare credit in the Afterparty for telling Lauren that his reaction was obviously coming from his own past issues and that she shouldn't take the blame for it.  It was the most astute thing she's said so far.

I have to admire Lauren for not letting him get away without weaseling out of the question about why he said sex was off the table.  She has an assertiveness I only wish I had at her age.  I think he realized then and there that he wasn't going to be able to BS and manipulate her and that's when he decided to go back to not being able to get over her redskin comment.  I still believe she never intended him any harm, and it's obvious that no matter what she did to educate herself and atone for it at this point it wouldn't be good enough for him.  I really don't think this guy is ever going to find a successful relationship.  I'd be very surprised if he ever did.

[starlightlost]

9 hours ago, princelina said:

I also wondered if in her googling her offensiveness she realized that he was not being truthful about the origin of the term and pointed that out to him 😄 

Good point! I feel this makes more sense. He probably doubled down and got more pissed off..

[LuvMyShows]

17 hours ago, After7Only said:

Yet he said doesn't date Native American women....

I don't recall him saying this...when was it said?  And if it's true, then for him to be ruling out his own people says something waaaayyyyy worse than what Lauren said!

[Katie111]

Lauren wanted a black man as a husband but said she would be open to other races as long as they were open to her culture and she could be open to theirs.  In other words, I don't think she wanted a white man who would have no idea about her culture and the discrimination she faces.  So when she met Orion, she was open to him.  She also mentioned that she would like someone that had a certain look, so that when they walked into a room people would look at them and say "there's a striking couple".  She definitely did not get that with Orion but yet she was still open to him.  I think she's probably part of maybe 5% or less of the population that would find Orion attractive.  So he really lucked out when she walked down the aisle.  And yet, at every turn, he acts like he is better than her.  As someone else said, he constantly gaslights her (and I hate that overused term but in this case, I think it's true).   His whole offensive about that conversation is just ridiculous.  He brought up the term.  He admitted to using the N word.  She could have just been offended and walked away right there but she didn't.   Instead, he just waits for her to make a mistake and then pounces.  He wasted two whole days of their honeymoon because he needed "space'.  I'm actually so sick of them talking about feeling "safe".  I've been married for 25 years, ahve tons of married friends and have never heard anyone use that term.  Its so dumb.  And yet every conversation seems to be completely "unsafe" for Lauren.  Also, as someone else mentioned, I'm sure 98% of the time people assume he's white or maybe Hispanic unless he's near a reservation or wearing native attire.  He seesms like the type that if he's not served first at a bar or seated first, he blames it on his race just so he can be "offended".

Brennan is a hard one to read.  If I recall, he had rather odd groomsmen so I wonder if he has a hard time making friends and that's why his inner circle is so small.  I don't recall anything about him before marriage.  I know Cam is a biker and Austin likes anything outdoorsy but what were Brennan's hobbies?  The girls all seem to work out but none of them seem outdoorsy which is a bit odd in Denver.  

 

 

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

Lauren wanted a black man as a husband but said she would be open to other races as long as they were open to her culture and she could be open to theirs.  In other words, I don't think she wanted a white man who would have no idea about her culture and the discrimination she faces.  So when she met Orion, she was open to him.  She also mentioned that she would like someone that had a certain look, so that when they walked into a room people would look at them and say "there's a striking couple".  She definitely did not get that with Orion but yet she was still open to him.  I think she's probably part of maybe 5% or less of the population that would find Orion attractive.  So he really lucked out when she walked down the aisle.  And yet, at every turn, he acts like he is better than her.  As someone else said, he constantly gaslights her (and I hate that overused term but in this case, I think it's true).   His whole offensive about that conversation is just ridiculous.  He brought up the term.  He admitted to using the N word.  She could have just been offended and walked away right there but she didn't.   Instead, he just waits for her to make a mistake and then pounces.  He wasted two whole days of their honeymoon because he needed "space'.  I'm actually so sick of them talking about feeling "safe".  I've been married for 25 years, ahve tons of married friends and have never heard anyone use that term.  Its so dumb.  And yet every conversation seems to be completely "unsafe" for Lauren.  Also, as someone else mentioned, I'm sure 98% of the time people assume he's white or maybe Hispanic unless he's near a reservation or wearing native attire.  He seesms like the type that if he's not served first at a bar or seated first, he blames it on his race just so he can be "offended".

Brennan is a hard one to read.  If I recall, he had rather odd groomsmen so I wonder if he has a hard time making friends and that's why his inner circle is so small.  I don't recall anything about him before marriage.  I know Cam is a biker and Austin likes anything outdoorsy but what were Brennan's hobbies?  The girls all seem to work out but none of them seem outdoorsy which is a bit odd in Denver.  

Amen to your entire post.  Orion is one of those people that is hard to peg ethnically.  Isn't he half Asian?  I thought he was not a full Native American, so that may be part of the reason he doesn't look especially like either race and might even look part white to some people.  Actually I don't think he ever said what percentage Native American he is.  He might actually be part white.  If anyone remembers hearing anything about this I'd be curious to know.

As for Brennan, he reminds me so much of guys I used to know from borough NYC that were a little aloof and withholding of parts of themselves, acting a little smug and superior like they might just let you into their little club if you're acceptable to them.  Meanwhile it's just another cover for insecurity.  He probably avoids people because of that insecurity and puts people off with his smugness/aloofness and that's why he has so few friends.  When I was his age I had more friends than that and I'm a decided introvert, so I find it a little concerning that he has so few at such a young age.

 

[Lindz]

What was Emily thinking with that question??? How'd she think he take it? What was the issue? He wasn't competitive? I'd take a friendly game with a mate over a game where he's trying to wipe the floor with me, it's not fun. I guess Emily likes that. 🤷‍♀️ It was a dumb question, but he overreacted to the implication instead of keeping cool & clarifying . They should ask what they really want to know. It's quite simple. E: Why aren't you trying to win? B: What do you mean by that question?

[Lindz]

Cam said the right things about them giving each other the benefit of the doubt & assuming the best. Absolutely right thing to do. Also easier to say than do for some people. But not ask if something's wrong, it doesn't have to be negative, ask for clarity on anything they're wondering. 

[seacliffsal]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I don't recall him saying this...when was it said?  And if it's true, then for him to be ruling out his own people says something waaaayyyyy worse than what Lauren said!

I think he said it during the matchmaking episode.  I do remember that he said something about not dating Native American women and it was when we were first getting to know everyone.

[lh25]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:34 AM, Rightside said:

I fast forward so much, but why are they all wearing those matching necklaces?

I wondered that also, I wonder if they are mics?

I am over Orion.  He won't ever forgive Lauren for her horribly offensive, crude and whatever else he called her joke.  Nothing she says or does will be enough to overcome the horrible pain she inflicted.  Yes, I'm being a little sarcastic, but he won't ever forgive her.  He will bring it up whenever he needs to score a point.

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, Katie111 said:

Also, as someone else mentioned, I'm sure 98% of the time people assume he's white or maybe Hispanic unless he's near a reservation or wearing native attire. 

Orion doesn’t look white to me. When you put him next to the other three white guys in the group, to me he reads as a different ethnicity but I wouldn’t think Native American. However, that’s because I rarely think Native American because I almost never encounter Native Americans. I think I’d think he was Hispanic if I didn’t know. 

5 hours ago, Katie111 said:

The girls all seem to work out but none of them seem outdoorsy which is a bit odd in Denver.  

I think I remember Lauren saying she’d cultivated hobbies she wouldn’t have without living in Denver - maybe snow sports? But I’m chuckling because my best friend lives in Denver and isn’t outdoorsy at all. They’ve done family ski trips and she’s like “have fun!” and texts me from the lodge.

[After7Only]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Amen to your entire post.  Orion is one of those people that is hard to peg ethnically.  Isn't he half Asian?  I thought he was not a full Native American, so that may be part of the reason he doesn't look especially like either race and might even look part white to some people.

I think he said he was half Navajo and half another Native American tribe (maybe Sioux).  Same pre wedding episode where he said he doesn’t date Native American women.   

[Lindz]

The rest of that sex conversation was irritating. Again. ASK WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW!!!! DON'T SAY WHAT YOU DIDN'T SAY!!! 🙄😒 She asked how he felt about her having sex 2 months prior & he said it took sex off the table for him so for him to say it's not just that was BS & that's why she made him own it!!! It went wrong when he backtracked & said it wasn't just that, but wouldn't say what else it was so I guess I understand why she wouldn't bother asking. How could they progress the conversation when he's being cagey? All she had to do was ask why after he said her having sex 2 months prior took it off the table for him. He probably wouldn't have given a reasonable answer. Imagine if he was matched with that guy that had sex the night before he was told he was matched! IMMEDIATE DIVORCE! 🤣🤣 Anyway, Orion's problem is he's holding her to his standard, even though he hadn't had sex for over a year, so who knows if he even had the opportunity during the application process and he isn't bothering to ask her the situation, he just has a problem with it and decided to fall back on her earlier comment to quit. We all know it. How long did he expect his future wife to abstain? Why does he have a problem with it? I think instead of asking about relations, Lauren should've asked about his dating/relationship history to find out if he goes negative. Then she would've known what would've eventually happened. 🤷‍♀️ Maybe they discussed that & it wasn't on camera, but I doubt it.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Lindz

[Lindz]

I hope Lauren requests a divorce since Orion can't be trusted and will just keep looking for reasons to quit. I don't support her freaking out with the ring & divorce antics. They both shouldn't be married. She had a great attitude before the last day of the honeymoon: that they could get through anything & to keep trying. I guess him changing his stance on her comment, coupled with the issue from earlier, set her off. 🤷‍♀️ Too bad she brought up these topics & he couldn't handle them. Time probably wouldn't have made it any better, he just looks for issues. Funny, he considered himself committed to this process, but she's the one who actually is.

[seacliffsal]

Thinking back about Orion's statement that he doesn't date Native American women, I kind of wonder if he continually puts himself in relationships that allow him a 'get out of jail free' card when he wants to leave the relationship and present himself as the victim.  He could find ways to connect whatever perceived grievance he has to being Native American and the other person not 'getting it.'

[Lindz]

Interesting how the husband in the least connected couple is the only one who made a traditional gesture with the flowers. I don't recall any other husband ever presenting their wife with flowers at a honeymoon group dinner. I think it should've been on a solo dinner, but Cam wanted to show up the other husbands. I was more concerned with their lack of communication while apart. Did he not update her on what was going on & where he was??? So strange!

[Lindz]

I can't believe Austin actually said he knew Becca's past bfs were avoidant & he wanted to make sure he wasn't being that way after just avoiding the religion talk THAT MORNING!!!! 🤨 THE AUDACITY!!! Like. Bruh!!! Rub it in why don't ya?!!!

[Lindz]

Welp. Orion & Lauren have crashed & burned & are in last place & might be out altogether. Like Mac & Niq?!! 😬 Everyone says what sounds right at the group dinner, but actually doing what they say??? Doubtful. & if they don't do what they say, they're gunna fail. Can't succeed with lying & being untrustworthy. Austin & Becca seem less perfect, but I guess they're still 1st. Brennan & Emily too. I guess Cam & Clare moved up a spot. 

[Jeanne222]

Show should be called Married At First Sight starring Keisha Knight Pullum!l

Listen up you NEVER have to say your name again!  Weeeeee know who you are!

[Jeanne222]

Orion along with other things finds Lauren too old for his taste!

Where did they find him?  Where did they find Pinky days after surgery then we had the run a way bride and the groom groomed like Halloween!

Perhaps they are not getting many wanting to be on this show!

[Merriwind]

Orion seems not to realize that if the word "redskin" had not come out of his mouth, it would not have been part of their conversation. Professional victim. Lauren just pontificates. They can go home anytime.

I think Brendan has a nasty temper. His parents intimated as much at brunch. Emily went from life of the party to acting timid and fearful. I don't like that.

Clare clearly has zero interest in Cameron. She never even makes eye contact with him. Granted, he can be a little stilted, but she hasn't given this a chance at all. 

So, I guess the only couple I have any hope for is Becca and Austin. They seem to be getting along great, but it's early days. Becca has serious health issues, and I think some of their interaction comes off as fake, but to be fair, the whole situation is a strange one. I'll root for them! 

[Crashcourse]

3 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Orion along with other things finds Lauren too old for his taste!

Not that he's that good-looking, but she looks too old for him, and he knows it.

[LuvMyShows]

7 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Not that he's that good-looking, but she looks too old for him, and he knows it.

I actually don't see much of an age difference between them...to me, he looks older than he is.

[ChristmasJones]

There is one word to sum up all that is Orion and that word is EGO. 

Dude has a massive ego and he couches it in all this other stuff like his culture, etc., which allows him to be the victim while taking ZERO ownership of his faults, mistakes, baggage, etc.

I hope Lauren runs far away from him. 

[Crashcourse]

18 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I actually don't see much of an age difference between them...to me, he looks older than he is.

I posted earlier that he looks older than 27, like he's in his 30's.  However, to me, Lauren still looks older, like she's in her early 40's. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:56 AM, Katie111 said:

And yet every conversation seems to be completely "unsafe" for Lauren. 

That crawls all over me. 

Maybe it's just young people these days, but I find all of this analysis exhausting.  Usually on shows like this I think, "We're getting only some of what's going on," but this time I really do wonder if these people spend all their time talking about communicating, voicing, feelings, apologies, grace.  And of course whether they feel safe.

I can't take much more, but I do enjoy a good trainwreck.

I've grown to hate the host of the after-party, and revel in everyone misspelling her name.  It's the little things.

[starlightlost]

On 12/2/2023 at 1:26 PM, Merriwind said:

I think Brendan has a nasty temper. His parents intimated as much at brunch. Emily went from life of the party to acting timid and fearful. I don't like that.

Yes, this is my concern as well. I wouldn't be surprised if cops are called on this dude later on. I thought he was cute at first, standoffish but polite...but I don't trust him at all. 

[Empress1]

On 12/2/2023 at 9:53 PM, LuvMyShows said:

I actually don't see much of an age difference between them...to me, he looks older than he is.

Orion does look older than he is (I’d think he was in his 30s if I didn’t know), but so does Lauren. She’s 31 and looks like she’s in her 40s.

17 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I find all of this analysis exhausting.  Usually on shows like this I think, "We're getting only some of what's going on," but this time I really do wonder if these people spend all their time talking about communicating, voicing, feelings, apologies, grace.  And of course whether they feel safe.

Me too. I have an ex (and he was a lot older than I, so this isn’t limited to millennials or Gen Z) who has been in therapy for many years (his childhood was a nightmare). And he used therapy-speak a lot and wanted to take the temperature of things often, and sometimes I’d be like “Can we just go eat?” It was great that his emotional intelligence was so high and all of it was coming from a place of making sure I felt loved and was happy, which I appreciated, but sometimes it was exhausting. With these couples I often think, “just be in the relationship and stop talking about it so much!”

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

With these couples I often think, “just be in the relationship and stop talking about it so much!”

But to be fair (I guess there's always a first time 😀), they are prodded to discuss these things.  That's one reason I don't like this format where the couples get together, or the wives all meet up or the husbands all meet up.  The only reason to do that is for them to talk about their dang marriages, and it's boring.

But I'm guessing it's a hell of a lot easier for the producers to just present these statements than to craft a non-talking-head narrative that conveys how the marriages are going.

Also, I left out best self; you're seen and heard; support; and I have your back.

[Chalby]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:20 AM, starlightlost said:

Good point! I feel this makes more sense. He probably doubled down and got more pissed off..

To be fair, researching on google doesn't equate empathy. Everyone's experience is their own, and google doesn't clarify who'll be hurt by whatever....

However, their match was dependent too much on cerebral, and too soon. As if they both were trying to show off how enlightened and communicative they are, compared to the others. But then they realized they didn't necessarily vibe just because they can speak well.

I think he is a bit more intimidated by those who speak up, which is Lauren. She knows who she is, and I believe she'd be willing to listen and adapt if she found there was an issue in her responses.

I also believe he just doesn't respond well to her strong personality, so he chose a "perceived" insult (where none was intended) and made it so no one could question him because it's his culture, afterall.

However, that was unfair to Lauren because Orion left the viewers with the impression that she is racist.  She may have responded without thinking, but he magnified the incident to get out of the relationship.

[Chalby]

On 12/2/2023 at 5:21 AM, seacliffsal said:

Thinking back about Orion's statement that he doesn't date Native American women, I kind of wonder if he continually puts himself in relationships that allow him a 'get out of jail free' card when he wants to leave the relationship and present himself as the victim. 

Great point and it would serve Orion well.

It also made me chuckle because I have a feeling no Native American woman would be interested in dating Orion. The First Nations' women I've interacted with, are the matriarchs of the culture. They're the ones keeping the customs and traditions alive. They are the ones touring the schools and teaching their ways. But they are also the "doers" not the talkers.

Orion needs to date and understand himself before he looks for a partner. Lauren will find someone within the year, and she'll be fine. I'm just sorry Orion put his nonsense onto her.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

However, that was unfair to Lauren because Orion left the viewers with the impression that she is racist. 

I hope not. I think that most viewers, if they were paying attention at all, would not have interpreted their interactions in that way. I certainly don't think that Lauren is racist and all I have to inform that is what I've seen on the show.

Again, I'm a white woman, though, so I don't know. I would love to hear some thoughts from Native Americans about that interactions. Everyone's experience and perspective are different and no one can speak for an entire culture, but I'd still be interested to hear from others that share Orion's culture.

[Starlight925]

I'm Jewish, and I've had little "funny Jewish jokes" tossed at me.  It's a horrible feeling.  I kept putting myself into Orion's shoes, and I gotta say, if the partner handled it the way Lauren did, I'd be grateful.  

She stopped, accepted his explanation, took the time to look it up, and showed genuine remorse.  What else does he want?

I once had a friend make what she thought was a "funny" comment to me, which upset me very much.  I wrote her a long text, explaining my feelings, and she was so remorseful, so apologetic, so understanding and appreciative of my explanation, that our friendship grew stronger.

Orion uses this as his wedge against closeness.

[Katie111]

I think if Orio did not have sex during the process or in the past year, the problem might be that he couldn't find anyone that wanted to sleep with him.  My guess is that he is rejected by women all the time.  So it's not that he was disgusted that Lauren had slept with someone, but maybe moreso that he was jealous.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Katie111

[JenE4]

Poor Pastor Cal being dragged into this mess on his day off, calling from the Home Depot parking lot or something just out trying to live his life in his casual hoodie. He’s the real victim of this episode.

i was kind of chuckling to myself when Orion and Lauren were having the sex “argument” but they were both talking very calmly and quietly as if either one of them got up above a whisper then the other would be able to call them out for “fighting” or “yelling.” And, in fact, the next day Orion was saying that Lauren got very heated. Granted, she was saying to both Clare and Pastor Cal that she was yelling, but that must have happened off camera when they were “talking” until 3 am because she was very calm and measured at all times on camera. This all seems so exhausting—these multi-night “conversations” and Orion needing hours apart during the day to “process.” What he’s processing, who the hell knows, because he sure as hell isn’t getting over anything. He’s probably trying really hard to think up anything else Lauren may have said that he can twist.

i was actually kind of angry that the only two times he’s “experienced racism” in his life was a stupid comment by a kid of his own race, seemingly implying he was acting white and this “racist attack” by Lauren who was just like, I’ve never heard this term you brought up. What does it mean? And, yeah, she made a stupid face and laughed and said, “I just saw your face” and tried to cover it up about a sunburn comment. But she really did not go out of her way to “make a racist joke.” Okay, so back to my point… His whole personality is seemingly “standing up against the racism and indignity he suffers on a daily basis” and then it turns out the only time in his entire life anyone has ever said anything slightly racist to him up until that night was a 12-year-old of his own race saying something stupid?!?! That’s entirely all that 12-year-olds do—say stupid insults to other kids that crush their souls.

But anyway, the fact that he is boo-hooing about all of this and absolutely unwilling to forgive Lauren who is showing genuine remorse and taking the effort to educate herself about racism against indigenous peoples is ridiculous. Does he not realize Lauren is a Black woman?!? Surely, she can “outdo” his one experience of overt racism with several of her own plus likely daily microaggressions. Lauren is heart-wrenchingly remorseful. It’s so sad to see her trying so hard and him not giving her the slightest benefit of the doubt. Orion can just fuck right off. Let’s swap him out for the guy with the crown and the sword who was left at the alter.

[Elizzikra]

50 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

 

i was kind of chuckling to myself when Orion and Lauren were having the sex “argument” but they were both talking very calmly and quietly as if either one of them got up above a whisper then the other would be able to call them out for “fighting” or “yelling.”

If someone slut-shamed me like that, I’d yell.

[princelina]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:38 PM, Starlight925 said:

I'm Jewish, and I've had little "funny Jewish jokes" tossed at me.  It's a horrible feeling.  I kept putting myself into Orion's shoes,

But she didn't "toss" anything at him - he brought it up and she didn't even understand what he was talking about, then tried to be humorous.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

None of these couples are genuinely attracted to each other - zero chemistry.  The side hugs, bored eyes and little peck kisses don't lie.  These people should've stuck to dating apps to find someone whose actually their type instead of leaving it up to producers who match for maximum drama and incompatibility.  Where did these "experts" get their credentials? A cheap Learning Annex class?! Also, Orion is an effeminate diva who is just edging for a fight- he could date a Native American girl and still somehow find ways to police her speech and one up her in stories of racism and pain.

Also, the girls are coming off as forced in trying to forge connections with their guys- except for Claire, she was probably praying that Cameron would be removed from the show and re-cast on "Monsters Inside Me" with his mystery ear illness. 😅  

Edited December 7, 2023 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Chalby]

On 11/30/2023 at 2:39 PM, Rightside said:

Basically, there doesn't seem to be much spark between them.

Emily always looks as though she's squinting and grimacing. (Or is that her attempt at continuous smiling?)

[Chalby]

On 11/29/2023 at 7:07 PM, APK said:

Doesn’t Orion still live with his mother and sister? Orion has definitely had too many females influencing his behavior in  life. 

And why is he still living at home If he complained to Lauren that her yelling at him reminded him of the toxic fighting he grew up with?

[Chalby]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:39 AM, Real4real said:

I think Orion’s problem is sexual.  Hearing that Lauren isn’t a V gave him the ick and he is using the race card to end it.  He seems scared of sex.

I don't think Orion actually wanted a virgin, but I do believe Orion had extreme performance anxiety, after Lauren told the world her expectations in bed. That was a turnoff for everyone.

[JenE4]

3 hours ago, Chalby said:

I don't think Orion actually wanted a virgin, but I do believe Orion had extreme performance anxiety, after Lauren told the world her expectations in bed. That was a turnoff for everyone.

But…Orion allegedly had a “girth certificate” and the only reason he was single because women couldn’t handle his massive penis (as he told the men during the bachelor party). Sounds like the experts finally found him a woman who could handle him. Lol

[Elizzikra]

8 hours ago, Chalby said:

Emily always looks as though she's squinting and grimacing. (Or is that her attempt at continuous smiling?)

I think that might just be how she smiles? And the heavy eyeliner and fake lashes don’t help the squinty eyed look.

[Retired at last]

I think that whole sex conversation was horrible and cringey. I guess I don't understand why Lauren would state what she expected so graphically. It seemed to me like it didn't matter who her partner was - this is what she wanted to have done. Wouldn't she want to wait and see the chemistry between them and take it from there? Besides, maybe with his aforementioned "girth," there might be new things she could experience????? I do hope they are over soon. They get way too much screen time.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

I think that whole sex conversation was horrible and cringey. I guess I don't understand why Lauren would state what she expected so graphically. It seemed to me like it didn't matter who her partner was - this is what she wanted to have done. Wouldn't she want to wait and see the chemistry between them and take it from there? Besides, maybe with his aforementioned "girth," there might be new things she could experience????? I do hope they are over soon. They get way too much screen time.

Lauren left nothing to the imagination with that sex talk- tasteless, zero mystery and she went from 0 to 60.  She couldn't read all of Orion's stiff side hugs and hesitant facial expressions?! He's not into her- and what made it even more awkward was she used the very outdated term "fellatio" to refer to oral sex and kept saying she "likes it when guys go around it and not on it, but around it and over it" - a very strange mix of beating around the bush 😉 and being too bold.  It was presumptuous for her to even talk about sex since they have zero chemistry and barely even know each other.  😏👀📺

[JenE4]

Right. At least wait until you realize he’s a dud in bed or things cool off over time to have a conversation to “spice things up.” It was just presumptuous, preposterous, and mortifying to detail a very graphic and specific demand. She must have thought all that talk was sexy. Though, he was just as awkward with his girth certificate talk, so maybe this was yet another reason why they were matched. 

[Retired at last]

LOL - I wonder what Dr. Pepper (or is it the new one this time) found in her bedside drawers when she did the home visit?

[Hip-to-be-Square]

5 hours ago, Retired at last said:

LOL - I wonder what Dr. Pepper (or is it the new one this time) found in her bedside drawers when she did the home visit?

LOL!! I wonder what she found in Orion's bedside drawers- Orion admitted to Lauren that he has a collection of sex toys (that he of course uses in his mom's house). 🥴😧

Edited December 14, 2023 by Hip-to-be-Square