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Sharpie66

By Sharpie66
in Jeopardy!

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Trey

Trey

(edited)

Regarding recycled clues, they already recycle so much of their material, just using different forms of the same question. 

I wish they would stop doing that.  There's enough knowledge and history in the world that they don't need to keep repeating the same old stuff.

One reason that the scores, in general, are so much higher nowadays is that new contestants have studied the archives and have a good idea of what might be asked.

But I will probably still watch the shows with recycled clues.

eta: Now I won't watch the shows with recycled clues.

Edited by Trey
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ABay
ABay

Fuck cancer. As much as I enjoy ragging on Trebek, this is really upsetting. The guy's in my living room 5 nights a week, and has been for years.

shapeshifter
shapeshifter

And now for our comedic break, a tweet from actor extraordinaire Michael McKean  

Bastet
Bastet

Wow, what a transformative experience for her, even beyond the financial security: And this brought a happy tear to my eye:  

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Bastet

Bastet

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm not going to watch the recycled clue season. I don't feel right about them trying to get around the writers in this way.

Yeah, I struggled with whether to finish the season once the WGA went on strike, and I'm definitely not going to watch them attempt to make a "new" season by re-using the writers' previous work.  Air re-runs, fine, but don't try to make "new episode" money off the old work.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, I struggled with whether to finish the season once the WGA went on strike, and I'm definitely not going to watch them attempt to make a "new" season by re-using the writers' previous work.  Air re-runs, fine, but don't try to make "new episode" money off the old work.

Would the Jeopardy! writers be paid residuals off of their recycled work?
Or is that the crux of the strike?

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

9 hours ago, ABay said:

Trebek had a strong tendency to make the stories about himself.

Trebek's standard 'Good for you!' reaction to the stories became a running joke precisely because people thought he showed little interest in the stories. But I guess memories vary.

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

(edited)
16 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

It’s official— TOC delayed until they can get some new clues. But apparently recycled clues are good enough for regular chumps contestants, as that appears to be a go, still.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jeopardy-tournament-of-champions-writers-strike-1235544627/

And Michael Davies, who loves running his mouth - and is a member of the WGA - is silent now.

As someone I know who has written J! recaps for years said: Profiles in Jell-O.

Edited by TakomaSnark
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possibilities

possibilities

I think the point of a strike is to disrupt production so that management will come to the  table and negotiate in good faith. Therefore, trying to keep production going without disruption by re-using past work is inherently a strike-breaking effort.

If the union says they want people too watch for some reason, I'll reconsider.

But the way it looks to me is that this is a bad faith effort to rebrand strike-breaking exploitation maneuvers as "best of". 

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ABay

ABay

3 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Trebek's standard 'Good for you!' reaction to the stories became a running joke precisely because people thought he showed little interest in the stories. But I guess memories vary.

Or possibly he didn't react to every story the same way.

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Bastet

Bastet

On 7/26/2023 at 2:27 PM, shapeshifter said:

Would the Jeopardy! writers be paid residuals off of their recycled work?
Or is that the crux of the strike?

Residuals are one of the key issues in both strikes, yes. 

The credited writers would normally get residuals for re-runs, yes.  But J! proposes not to air re-runs, but to make new episodes with new contestants, but using old clues.  Even if they paid the writers the usual residual they'd get for re-runs, that would be unfair -- Sony will charge new episode, not re-run, advertising rates for those episodes.

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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

I watch PlutoTV a lot - mostly Star Treks* and Midsomer Murders. Be prepared for some goofy commercials promoting their own channels.  I'll be enjoying this!

 

*They have two channels - one runs TNG and alternates with TOS.  The other one is streaming DS9 now and has gone through several cycles of all 7 seasons.  They've also streamed Voyager through many cycles.

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

If I understand this correctly, they're now planning to open the season with a new 2nd chance tournament, using players from season 37 and then another wild card tournament from the season 37 and 38 second chance tournaments.

Not sure if it makes any difference. I'm very much struggling with whether I'd watch it or not. Apparently recycled clues were used by Jeopardy during the previous writer's strike. (not that it makes it any better)

TV Line article on Jeopardy

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illdoc

illdoc

J! increasing 2nd/3rd place finishers payouts (but only by $1000). Also some news about Season 40: https://tvline.com/news/jeopardy-second-third-place-prize-amounts-increase-pay-day-travel-expenses-1235024368/  and https://tvline.com/news/jeopardy-season-40-start-date-host-ken-jennings-writers-strike-1235024275/   Short version: Season 40 will begin with a "Second Chance Tournament" featuring the Season 37 "also-rans" (the Season 38 ones were in the first "SCT" (the one currently being rerun).

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

Also, in the article:

Quote

Season 40 will be bringing back old contestants. 

“I believe, principally that it would not be fair to have new contestants,” executive producer Michael Davies told TV Line. “Making their first appearance on the Alex Trebek stage, doing it with non-original material or as we’ll talk about a combination of non-original material and material that was written pre-strike.

Hmmm, they admit it's not fair to new contestants...leaving out the elephant in the room of people it's unfair to - their own writers. I'm struggling less with whether or not I'll watch it.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
Quote

Davies continued. “...the material that we’re gonna be using is a combination of material that our WGA writers wrote before the strike, which is still in the database and material that is being redeployed from multiple, multiple seasons of the show.”

tvline.com/news/jeopardy-season-40-start-date-host-ken-jennings-writers-strike-1235024275

Any chance that "redeployed" clues might be clues that were never used when the board was left unfinished?

As a lifelong artist of even less fame than the Jeopardy! clue writers, I am reaching a point in my life when I would be happy to have my work appreciated by anyone rather than wind up in a dumpster.
But in the middle of a strike that may determine whether they can afford to continue to work as writers, I guess that perspective does not apply.

 

25 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Hmmm, they admit it's not fair to new contestants...leaving out the elephant in the room of people it's unfair to - their own writers. I'm struggling less with whether or not I'll watch it.

If I watch via Spectrum cable, will that be logged somehow?
How about via Paramount +?
Bootleg YouTube vids?

I am sure they can't track my viewing if I use my Over The Air antenna, but CBS tends to pixelate around the time Jeopardy! is on.
Hrmm, I should see how well it works with the bedroom antenna.

Edited by shapeshifter
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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
On 8/7/2023 at 1:14 PM, possibilities said:

I'm definitely not watching until the strike is resolved. Any and everything they shoot now is a strike-breaking effort.

Same here.  The strike is meant to halt production so AMPTP has to finally start negotiating in good faith so that a fair contract can be signed and everyone can get back to work.  They won't go so far as hiring scab writers, but they're finding other ways of producing new episodes (thus earning new episode ad rates for commercials) during a strike.  No way I'm going to support that.

Edited by Bastet
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ProudMary

ProudMary

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I'm definitely not watching until the strike is resolved. Any and everything they shoot now is a strike-breaking effort.

Yes. To me, it was one thing for them to finish out the season with clues that had already been written. What they're talking about now is definitely a bridge too far. 

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30 Helens

30 Helens

I wasn’t sure where to put this comment, but since the mention of it started here…

I rewatched the first 4 episodes of Ken’s 2004 run on Pluto TV yesterday. (And had fun playing along! I can barely remember clues from last week, so decade-old clues are definitely new to me!) A few observations:

  • Awww, Alex! This is the first time I had seen one of his episodes since his death, and it was nice to see him relaxed and healthy again. I miss him.
  • Baby Ken! Who has actually changed very little since those days. I enjoyed hearing his introductory stories.
  • I had forgotten how much closer together the podiums were, pre-Covid. The contestants looked a bit cramped.
  • That first game really could have gone either way. Julia was right on Ken’s heels and if he hadn’t known that FJ, he would have been just one of many to pass through the doors. It wasn’t until the next game that he started with the runaways.
  • Ken said “please” a lot. He would have driven many of you crazy! 😁
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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
17 minutes ago, HyeChaps said:

'Jeopardy!' Champ James Holzhauer Criticizes Show's New Changes (yahoo.com)

I found the article; it's just noting his Twitter post providing a great summary of the podcast where Davies stated plans to make new episodes with old clues:

 

Edited by Bastet
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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

3 hours ago, illdoc said:

Not quite J!, but CJ! will be on Weds, starting Sep 27 with Ken hosting. https://tvline.com/news/abc-fall-lineup-2023-changes-schedule-bachelor-in-paradise-thursday-1235031306/

Hard pass. Ken is opting to cross the picket lines. He is a member of SAG-AFTRA and has fingered them for his 'having' to keep hosting - even though Mayim is under no such alleged directive by the same union. 

I can't even imagine the caliber of 'celebrity' they will find willing to participate.

 

 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

14 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Ken is opting to cross the picket lines. He is a member of SAG-AFTRA

 Assuming this source is correct: 
“Jennings is not a member of either WGA or SAG-AFTRA” (Ken Jennings Named New Celebrity Jeopardy Host by Nicole Drum, 08/22/2023, https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/amp/news/ken-jennings-named-new-celebrity-jeopardy-host/).

Also:   
“Although many celebrities are SAG members, their work on the show is covered by a separate labor agreement and not subject to the strike” (“'Celebrity Jeopardy!': Ken Jennings replaces Mayim Bialik as host amid ongoing strikes,” by Erin Jensen and Gary Levin, USA Today, Aug. 22, 2023, usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2023/08/22/mayim-bialik-ken-jennings-on-celebrity-jeopardy-strikes/70648991007).

 

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

(edited)
7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

 Assuming this source is correct: 
“Jennings is not a member of either WGA or SAG-AFTRA” (Ken Jennings Named New Celebrity Jeopardy Host by Nicole Drum, 08/22/2023, https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/amp/news/ken-jennings-named-new-celebrity-jeopardy-host/).

Also:   
“Although many celebrities are SAG members, their work on the show is covered by a separate labor agreement and not subject to the strike” (“'Celebrity Jeopardy!': Ken Jennings replaces Mayim Bialik as host amid ongoing strikes,” by Erin Jensen and Gary Levin, USA Today, Aug. 22, 2023, usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2023/08/22/mayim-bialik-ken-jennings-on-celebrity-jeopardy-strikes/70648991007).

 

That's true as I understand it.

Nevertheless, it does mean he's crossing a picket line, implying no support for his writers. He's firmly identified with management as a result. I can understand his reasoning, just not sure if I can "understand" it enough to watch. I did watch back during the other strike, but at that time I don't think I realized that the Jeopardy employees were a part of it. It didn't get nearly as much play as it does now.

I mean, I didn't cross the picket lines at our local grocery store strike because I supported what the workers were asking for. And it worked, the store didn't realize how much support the workers had for the local branch, since they all had families who lived here and bought at the store. On the other hand, it's not like I was working for some other arm of the grocery business. So I didn't have to think about it too much.

Edited by Clanstarling
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Nevertheless, it does mean he's crossing a picket line, implying no support for his writers. He's firmly identified with management as a result.

But aren't there a lot of relatively low-paid, non union employees who would be without work if the show went dark? 
IDK.
I vaguely recalled not buying lettuce in the 70s, so I googled Lettuce Workers Strike and wound up reading this entire Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_Bowl_strike
It was very complicated.

Right now I'm watching season 3 of Only Murders In The Building on Hulu, which was completed before the strike. I wonder if some would-be viewers are not watching because of the strike.

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

(edited)
On 8/22/2023 at 1:07 PM, shapeshifter said:

But aren't there a lot of relatively low-paid, non union employees who would be without work if the show went dark? 
IDK.

Yeah, it's complicated. Strikes always are, whatever union. There's always someone besides the union members who suffer as well. I think (I'm really vague on this issue, if someone knows more please let me know), that other tv workers who aren't actors and workers are working to form a union as well. I can't quote where I read that, or even know if I got the right idea from what I read.

Edited by Clanstarling
deleted political proselytizing
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Prevailing Wind

Prevailing Wind

7 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

There's always someone besides the union members who suffer as well.

My Dad was a Teamster - a local truck driver. He was never out on strike, but sometimes he couldn't work because the Longshoremen were on strike, so no cargo was moving. Dad had nothing to deliver.  But the strikes never lasted long, so we got by. If they HAD lasted long, I think he would have had to find another job.

 

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possibilities

possibilities

(edited)

The thing is, when labor is strong, it's good for all labor. Once the industry realizes they have to treat one union well, they will have to treat all unions well. Solidarity benefits the collective. 

It's a hardship to be on strike. But it's a short term hardship vs a permanent hardship. There isn't a no-hardship option.

My view is that customers should do what the union asks of them-- if that means boycotting, or not crossing the picket line, then that's what we do. The more we do it, the more pressure it puts on management and the faster the strike will end, which is the ultimate goal and good for everyone.

Edited by possibilities
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

…My view is that customers should do what the union asks of them-- if that means boycotting, or not crossing the picket line, then that's what we do…

Okay. Do we, as viewers/customers, have a clear directive from WGA or SAG-AFTRA as to what behavior on our part would be supportive?

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possibilities

possibilities

I have not heard specific news about what the unions are asking for from viewers in this case, but in general, you don't cross a picket line and you don't give business to anybody trying to break a strike. That has always been the principle, as long as I've followed labor issues. It may be that they've made a statement in this case and I just didn't hear it, but they also might assume it's not necessary, because that has always been the assumption in past actions.

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Bastet

Bastet

The unions did not call for a boycott of productions already in the pipeline (content created before the strikes were called, but aired while the strikes are ongoing).  They have not yet addressed whether they want viewers to boycott, once they air, any of the things slated to be produced during the strike.

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ProudMary

ProudMary

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Okay. Do we, as viewers/customers, have a clear directive from WGA or SAG-AFTRA as to what behavior on our part would be supportive?

Clear directive? Not exactly. 

To date, neither the WGA nor SAG-AFTRA has called for a boycott by viewers. When "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" premiered about a month ago, some union members actually encouraged people to go to theaters to see those films and others. The wages/residuals being fought for by both unions are tied directly to profits. The unions want producers profits up, not down.

Again, about a month ago, author, screenwriter and WGA member, Neil Gaiman, who's been walking the picket line commented that customers of streaming services shouldn't cancel their subscriptions or boycott shows. (See below.)

Pretty much everything I've seen commented on involves either feature films playing in theaters or shows streaming on subscription services. I haven't specifically seen anything about network TV programming, nor syndicated TV shows like Jeopardy!

 

Screenshot_20230824_212657_DuckDuckGo.jpg

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

12 hours ago, ProudMary said:

…Neil Gaiman, who's been walking the picket line commented that customers of streaming services shouldn't cancel their subscriptions or boycott shows. (See below.)

Screenshot_20230824_212657_DuckDuckGo.jpg

Thanks. 
Perhaps of note from Neil Gaiman‘s remarks are the words bolded: 
“The WGA has not called for anyone to boycott any of the streamers yet.
…until the WGA calls for it, I don’t suggest doing it.…”

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

(edited)

Regardless of whether or not the WGA calls for it, I am more than a little uncomfortable with watching it while the strike continues.

I'm hoping 🤞 the strike is resolved before the season begins - then even though production started earlier, the writers would be back working.

If not, I have to do some serious thinking and read what I can from members of the WGA (in addition to the quotes above).

Edited by Clanstarling
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

20 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Regardless of whether or not the WGA calls for it, I am more than a little uncomfortable with watching it while the strike continues.

I'm hoping 🤞 the strike is resolved before the season begins - then even though production started earlier, the writers would be back working.

If not, I have to do some serious thinking and read what I can from members of the WGA (in addition to the quotes above).

I look forward to reading any further information on this from anyone here (and elsewhere), and I look forward to reading any further conclusions and rationale you or anyone else cares to post here.🤔🙃 

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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

The J! situation - producing new episodes using clues previously written by WGA members for earlier episodes - is so specific, unlike anything else planned to be produced for network TV during the strike, I don't know that we'll hear anything from union leadership about it.  Individual J! writers might say something on their social media accounts (I don't know their names, and don't use social media, so even if I did I would only hear about it if reported in the news or posted here), but that may wind up being it.

To me, it's a strikebreaking effort (render the strike ineffectual by finding a way to produce - and profit from - new content during the strike, just without going so far as using scab writers), and unless the WGA says it's somehow to the benefit of its members for viewers to watch or I find out the J! writers as a collective say they're okay with people watching, I'm not going to. 

It would seem the credited writers would get re-run residuals for these episodes, based on how they've been described.  But getting re-run residuals, rather than first airing pay, should only happen with actual re-runs.  Which is all that should be aired during the strike.  But Sony wants new episode, not re-run, viewership numbers and thus ad rates; producers making new episode money for something for which the writers (but only the credited writers; the others in the writers' room who got paid the first time will not get anything this time) only get re-run money is inherently not okay. 

So I don't need a boycott over this highly specific situation to be called in order not to watch, I need an It's okay because X go-ahead in order to watch.

Edited by Bastet
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