S01.E02: Moving In

[Athena]

Quote

Frasier hopes to make up for lost time with Freddy, but a disagreement over where to put a small Red Sox souvenir quickly escalates into a battle of wills between father and son.

 

[dshgr]

I really enjoyed it.  I've watched the original series beginning to end at least 2 dozen times and Frasier is one of my all time favorite TV characters (along with Liz Lemon).  I immediately saw the comparison of Freddy and Martin.  I'm in.

[John M]

Just going to put everything in this thread:

So, I kind of empathize with Freddy, I grew up in a somewhat wealthy family with distant parents that I am now basically currently somewhat somewhat to completely estranged from, I now work in a public service job that my father does not approve of (No matter, he disowned me, I was borderline relieved that I no longer had to force a relationship with him and see the disapproving looks when I told my family what I do).

But having known plenty of people in my position, including a family member I am close with, that Frasier stuff gets ingrained into you at your core, it's unshakable, there is absolutely no way that Freddys co-workers don't realize there is something off about him that they just can't ignore, the vocabulary, pronunciation, the mannerism, weird knowledge that just kind of slips out, weird tastes, even accents that they just can't place, they know something is off about you, they figure it out and it's not the same. The 50 minutes in the bathroom everyday.

I'm just thinking and I can see this in my own life, I know some of it is just TV, but despite Frasier's bash, Freddy's place is incredibly well put together for someone that views themselves as a blue collar firefighter. While certainly not Frasier's style, the architectural details, the accessories, high quality vintage furniture. Also he lives in an apartment building that Frasier would live in in a very large architectural space right across the hall.

Also I think there is a big opportunity that I hope they take that as much as Freddy wants to think he is a blue collar public servant, he is never going to be able to shake his past and he needs to deal with that instead of deluding himself into believing that he is just like his coworkers. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by John M

[Magnumfangirl]

I watched both episodes tonight and thought it was pretty good.  I was expecting it to suck, but I enjoyed it.  I like the role reversal and the apartment is gorgeous for a change (except the ink blot wallpaper is a little weird).  I always thought the Seattle apartment was hideous save for the fake view!  Anyway, it's cute and will probably get better once the cast finds their groove.

[TheOtherOne]

I really didn't care for Freddy's fellow firefighters being portrayed as morons. It makes them way too cartoonish and one-note (especially since they're all playing the same note) if they're going to be recurring characters, which they really should if they're part of his life, so he's not just stuck hanging out with Frasier, Eve, and David in stories.

[Camera One]

I thought this episode was pretty on par with the premiere.  There were some mildly amusing moments, and was overall watchable.

I guess for me, the emotional stuff just didn't land.  The clash over the furnishing felt like a rehash of the original show with Frasier and his dad.  Reboots and sequels often have that problem of setting up a parallel situation which has already been played so well (and played out, by the end of the original series), so you get a pale, boring imitation.  There were a few moments in this one which felt too cheesy.

 

[Annber03]

Yeah,  I hope they flesh out his co-workers better, too, give them a little more variety. 

Good second episode overall, though. Some good one-liners and interactions throughout - I liked the whole thing with David's little quips as he walked by while Frasier and  Freddie were setting up their apartment. Between that and the end credits scene with him, I could see a lot more of the resemblance to Niles this episode. And I also liked the whole "Baby Shark" running gag, though now I want to curse this show for putting that song in my head :p. 

And of course Frasier's voice would put John to sleep :D. I feel like that was a bit of a nod to the online communities that talk about how "Frasier" is a good show to fall asleep to. 

I also liked Frasier's "Fenway meets Steinway" line, and the reference to his couch against Martins' chair. The whole scene with them and the air hockey table was fun, too, and a good way to play up the tension between them. 

I like how they're continuing to touch on the theme of the Crane father/son bond and how fraught it often can be. I totally get Freddie's reasons for wanting to distance himself from Frasier's fame, and even as a teenager, he seemed to resist some of the pressures that Frasier and Lilith would put on him. I appreciate how they're developing more of that backstory and letting us see the path Freddie chose. And it's interesting to see Frasier in Martin's shoes this go-round - the best way he can honor his own father is to learn how to forge a bond with Freddie that's similar to the one he and Martin had. It's another touching way to acknowledge Martin and his role in Frasier's life. 

Good start to this! It's nice to be in this world again, and see how Frasier is settling into this new stage of his life. I look forward to seeing what's yet to come this season :). 

[TattleTeeny]

I am confused about this living situation. So, the apartment was Freddy's and he's just leaving it to the not-GF while he grudgingly moves into Frasier's place? Why? I mean, I know why in terms of moving along the story, but it's crazy; they could still bond living across a tiny hallway. I thought they were eventually going to end up having the not-GF be Frasier's roommate instead.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[cmahorror]

26 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I am confused about this living situation. So, the apartment was Freddy's and he's just leaving it to the not-GF while he grudgingly moves into Frasier's place? Why? I mean, I know why in terms of moving along the story, but it's crazy; they could still bond living across a tiny hallway. I thought they were eventually going to end up having the not-GF be Frasier's roommate instead.  

At the end of the first episode, Frasier bought the building and offered to let both Freddy and not-GF to live in there rent-free as long as Freddy moved in with him so they could bond. She immediately agreed and I would too - free rent of a nice apartment in Boston as a single mom. Hell yeah! 
 

[Sarah 103]

The first two episodes felt like set-up (which they were). I am not in love with the series, but I do not hate it. I am willing to give it more episodes to see where it goes and how it develops. 

I did like Frasier going all in on/playing along with the lies Freddie told his firefighter friends and ripping off the plot of Mamma Mia in the process.  

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, cmahorror said:

At the end of the first episode, Frasier bought the building and offered to let both Freddy and not-GF to live in there rent-free as long as Freddy moved in with him so they could bond. She immediately agreed and I would too - free rent of a nice apartment in Boston as a single mom. Hell yeah! 
 

Oh, I knew all of that. I just thought that maybe I missed whose apartment it originally was because this makes zero sense, including the ultimatum.

Haha, yes, I'd take the deal if I were her. I would not if I were Freddy!

Edited October 13, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[baldryanr]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I did like Frasier going all in on/playing along with the lies Freddie told his firefighter friends and ripping off the plot of Mamma Mia in the process.

It's also a generation Xerox of what he did to Martin.  Frasier mentioned his Dad had died on Cheers, so they just decided he was lying when he claimed Martin was a dead scientist.

[WearyTraveler]

Favourite line: "I'm still talking Oedipus!!"

[Sarah 103]

20 hours ago, baldryanr said:

It's also a generation Xerox of what he did to Martin.  Frasier mentioned his Dad had died on Cheers, so they just decided he was lying when he claimed Martin was a dead scientist.

I wonder if that was part of the reason Frasier went with it. He remembered doing the same thing. Also, it was funny, and I enjoyed it. 

[Camera One]

23 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I am confused about this living situation. So, the apartment was Freddy's and he's just leaving it to the not-GF while he grudgingly moves into Frasier's place? Why? I mean, I know why in terms of moving along the story, but it's crazy; they could still bond living across a tiny hallway. I thought they were eventually going to end up having the not-GF be Frasier's roommate instead.  

That thought entered my mind as well.  It's part of the reason why the setup felt forced, since it was so obviously trying to set up the same dad/son-in-the-same-space scenario in the original, but without a convincing reason. 

If Freddy needed to help out with the baby, it might make sense for Frasier to offer a bigger apartment for them both, with all 3 of them living together.  Or Freddy also got injured in that fire that killed the baby's father (or maybe PTSD), and would need Frasier around for help, so he would reluctantly agree to the arrangement to all 3 of them moving in.

[benteen]

Weaker episode than the first one. I hope they do a better job with Freddy's co-workers going forward as they just come across as generic stock characters. Frasier and Roz were always surrounded by fun co-workers like Bulldog, Gil, Noel and Kenny.

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

That thought entered my mind as well.  It's part of the reason why the setup felt forced, since it was so obviously trying to set up the same dad/son-in-the-same-space scenario in the original, but without a convincing reason. 

If Freddy needed to help out with the baby, it might make sense for Frasier to offer a bigger apartment for them both, with all 3 of them living together.  Or Freddy also got injured in that fire that killed the baby's father (or maybe PTSD), and would need Frasier around for help, so he would reluctantly agree to the arrangement to all 3 of them moving in.

And even in a less serious scenario, other than the couch making him sore, Freddy didn't seem annoyed by the presence of his friend, yet she was annoyed by his noises and whatever. That might be valid if he had moved into her place, but not when he's doing her a favor. 

[Chit Chat]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

It's part of the reason why the setup felt forced, since it was so obviously trying to set up the same dad/son-in-the-same-space scenario in the original, but without a convincing reason. 

I think this could've worked even with Freddy living across the hall, kind of like the show Friends.  It's nice of Freddy to give up his place to his friend.  Staying on the sofa long-term isn't a good option if he's going to allow her and the baby to stay.  I'm excited for the series and for the other Frasier actors to show up.   

[paigow]

Did the Fire Crew [Cliff, Norm and Carla] ever meet Lilith? That she would be dating Pipefitters, Plumbers, and Snobby Geniuses at the same time seems plausible?

ETA: Frasier probably paid for the building with cash from Dick Wolf - working as a script consultant on Chicago Med

Edited October 14, 2023 by paigow

[Sarah 103]

7 hours ago, paigow said:

Did the Fire Crew [Cliff, Norm and Carla] ever meet Lilith? That she would be dating Pipefitters, Plumbers, and Snobby Geniuses at the same time seems plausible?

I'm going with no. He clearly is trying to present a certain image of himself to his friends/co-workers. My guess is that he is trying (and was succeeding until Frasier showed up) in keeping his work life and his family life completely separate. 

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I'm going with no. He clearly is trying to present a certain image of himself to his friends/co-workers. My guess is that he is trying (and was succeeding until Frasier showed up) in keeping his work life and his family life completely separate. 

Frederick Gaylord Crane graduates from Boston Fire Academy - where nobody knows his last name - because his friends cannot connect the dots when they meet Frasier before the Mamma Mia exposition.  

[Irlandesa]

30 minutes ago, paigow said:

Frederick Gaylord Crane graduates from Boston Fire Academy - where nobody knows his last name - because his friends cannot connect the dots when they meet Frasier before the Mamma Mia exposition.  

The show had some plot holes but, to their credit, they did address the same name thing at the end of the episode.  I can't recall the joke but I think Frasier asks if he's worried Freddy's friends are going to put together the same last name thing at some point and Freddy doesn't think so because they missed another big clue (maybe that they already lived together?) or something like that. 

Basically implying his friends aren't the brightest/most observant crew.

[North of Eden]

I liked both episodes. I'm in for the duration.

I really appreciate that they returned to Boston if just for the reason that it will finally track with the CHEERS episode to the flash forward years in the future when Frasier has died and the lawyer reads the will to Lilith and Freddie only to find out a medical report on Sam Malone's sperm count got switched.

This will be unpopular but Fraisier was my favorite CHEERS character but I hated his own show because I didn't want him out of Boston, his supporting cast other than Niles was unlikable and I didn't like the whole radio thing so I  quit after the first season and only watched the CHEERS cameos.  Now it just feels right to have him back where he belongs.

The only quibble I have is the Nephew is completely out of place on this series. It's as if they reached back in time to the 1960s and 70's when it was acceptable to have cartoon characters and brought one whole cloth to 2023. Seriously if you substituted Eb Dawson from GREEN ACRES or Gilligan and gave him the nephew's lines and actions...nobody would even blink an eye or notice. The character is that bad. If there is a season 2 he needs to go.

Speaking of season2....CHEERS cameos are a must. How could he be back and Boston and not see his old friends Sam, Norm and the others. Hell with current technology if they budgeted it they could completely recreate the Cheers bar with  digital green screen and just build the physical bar with the stools. Make it happen folks!

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I'm going with no. He clearly is trying to present a certain image of himself to his friends/co-workers. My guess is that he is trying (and was succeeding until Frasier showed up) in keeping his work life and his family life completely separate. 

And yet Eve knew immediately who Frasier was so his worlds can’t be completely separate. Mostly I think it was just lazy writing. 

[paigow]

Freddy should get a visit from Uncle Simon Moon

ETA:

Roz [20 years ago]: His accent sounds so sophisticated

Edited October 17, 2023 by paigow

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

And yet Eve knew immediately who Frasier was so his worlds can’t be completely separate. Mostly I think it was just lazy writing. 

Yeah, in the first episode, didn't Eve say something like "Can you turn off/down your dad's TV show in the baby's room" or something to that effect when she walked in and Frasier was right there?  

Why was his TV show even on?  Are we supposed to believe Freddy watched it regularly?   And wouldn't Eve already know Frasier's voice soothes the baby if the show was always on in the background?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Camera One

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, in the first episode, didn't Eve say something like "Can you turn off/down your dad's TV show in the baby's room" or something to that effect when she walked in and Frasier was right there?  

Yes. 

21 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why was his TV show even on?  Are we supposed to believe Freddy watched it regularly?   And wouldn't Eve already know Frasier's voice soothes the baby if the show was always on in the background?

Bad writing.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

And yet Eve knew immediately who Frasier was so his worlds can’t be completely separate. Mostly I think it was just lazy writing. 

I am not a fan of the descriptor "lazy," but it is possible in this instance that it was "lazy" writing.
However, my guess is that the story board for the show was ironed out by non-writers, and then the real writers were stuck with the distractingly unrealistic concepts and characters.
So the "lazy" person would be the project manager who didn't get the non-writers and the writers to come to workable compromises. 
Or something like that.
But I'm just basing this on an experience I had illustrating a book. I have no experience with the creation of a TV series.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I am not a fan of the descriptor "lazy," but it is possible in this instance that it was "lazy" writing.
However, my guess is that the story board for the show was ironed out by non-writers, and then the real writers were stuck with the distractingly unrealistic concepts and characters.
So the "lazy" person would be the project manager who didn't get the non-writers and the writers to come to workable compromises. 
Or something like that.
But I'm just basing this on an experience I had illustrating a book. I have no experience with the creation of a TV series.

With many sitcoms the showrunners who are ultimately responsible with the overarching structure and plot of the show are also writers. In this case the two showrunners are also the credited writers of the first episode. I found their writing particularly to be lazy and inconsistent with the plot of this episode. 

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, North of Eden said:

How could he be back and Boston and not see his old friends Sam, Norm and the others.

He had nothing in common with them except for Diane. I think that's one thing that Frasier did so well whenever Cheers people would visit, especially in Woody's episode. He might still like them but the connective tissue that held the bond together was basically gone.   It's like making friends at work or school.  The circumstances of the situation might bond people together and they had fun but a lot of the true closeness beyond catching up now and then dissipates without the circumstance holding them together.

Frasier would have never made Cheers a habit without Diane.

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why was his TV show even on?  Are we supposed to believe Freddy watched it regularly?   

I don't think his show was on.  She heard Frasier's voice and thought it was a TV Show but it actually was Frasier in the flesh.

Someone should gift her recordings of his show.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Irlandesa

[benteen]

One of the writers noted that Frasier would be reluctant because Cheers was a time where he had failed romantic relationships, failed professional ventures and he spent so much time at the bar. Frasier notes in the first episode of the original show that he was spending his days at a bar and it was time to do something new. I think the writers are correct in that one.

Edited October 16, 2023 by benteen

[North of Eden]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He had nothing in common with them except for Diane. I think that's one thing that Frasier did so well whenever Cheers people would visit, especially in Woody's episode. He might still like them but the connective tissue that held the bond together was basically gone.   It's like making friends at work or school.  The circumstances of the situation might bond people together and they had fun but a lot of the true closeness beyond catching up now and then dissipates without the circumstance holding them together.

Frasier would have never made Cheers a habit without Diane.

 

Depressing analysis but I do see some truth and logic in it. Though do remember he stayed around in the Rebecca years as well though.

[Athena]

2 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Depressing analysis but I do see some truth and logic in it. Though do remember he stayed around in the Rebecca years as well though.

By that time, Frasier did have that habit and was friendly with everyone at Cheers. He likely lived and/or worked near by as well. Also Frasier had a busier job so the Cheers group were some of his only friends outside of work. Objectively though, Frasier and the others didn't really have much in common for them all to stay in touch though especially after he moved back to Seattle.

[paigow]

In 20+ years...have we ever seen Frasier eating Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs?

[tessaray]

Frasier and Sam had their own relationship, though it started out with Diane in the middle. It was an unlikely friendship but seemed genuine enough. (Like comrades bonding after a war? 🙂)

Sam's visit to Seattle was much different than Woody's. There was real pleasure on Frasier's part, at least. 

Eta:  Forgot to add that while I would love to see a Cheers visit if this version has multiple seasons, I don't expect it. 

[cardigirl]

It's too soon to tell if there will be a second season. So many terrible shows are given multiple seasons (I'm looking at you, Call Me Cat) when they have very little charm. This show has potential, and I enjoy being back in Frasier's orbit. I'm in for the rest of this season, and if they give us more, that too. :) 

[North of Eden]

Tessaray Word on everything you just wrote especially Sam and Frasier having a deeper and more genuine friendship.

Edited October 16, 2023 by North of Eden

[paigow]

2 hours ago, tessaray said:

Eta:  Forgot to add that while I would love to see a Cheers visit if this version has multiple seasons, I don't expect it. 

Proxies for the Cheers cast have already been established.. including Frasier imagining himself as Sam... with better taste in furniture.

[LindaT]

When David Hyde Pierce wants a million billion dollars, you pay David Hyde Pierce a million billion dollars.

[Athena]

17 hours ago, tessaray said:

Frasier and Sam had their own relationship, though it started out with Diane in the middle. It was an unlikely friendship but seemed genuine enough. (Like comrades bonding after a war? 🙂)

Sam's visit to Seattle was much different than Woody's. There was real pleasure on Frasier's part, at least. 

Eta:  Forgot to add that while I would love to see a Cheers visit if this version has multiple seasons, I don't expect it. 

I agree that of all the Cheers crew, Frasier and Sam had the most lasting friendship. I still don't think they would hang out very often but there was respect and fondness there. That visit on Frasier made more sense than the other Cheers cameos. I like Ted Danson in general so I wouldn't mind a visit there.

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, Athena said:

I agree that of all the Cheers crew, Frasier and Sam had the most lasting friendship.

I think so too.  We're still watching reruns of Cheers, and we're in the second season of Kirstie Alley's arrival.  I had forgotten how much of a role Frasier had on the show.  The guys weren't too nice to him at first, but then he became part of gang!  Except for Sam, I don't think Frasier missed the rest of them once he moved to Seattle.  They were a fond memory for him.  

[TheOtherOne]

On 10/15/2023 at 4:07 PM, Camera One said:

Yeah, in the first episode, didn't Eve say something like "Can you turn off/down your dad's TV show in the baby's room" or something to that effect when she walked in and Frasier was right there?  

Why was his TV show even on?  Are we supposed to believe Freddy watched it regularly?   And wouldn't Eve already know Frasier's voice soothes the baby if the show was always on in the background?

I've never watched Dr. Phil, but I've seen enough commercials to know what his braying voice sounds like. Being a regular viewer isn't a requirement to (unfortunately) know about and recognize a lot of people, especially for someone who was on the air for 20 years, as Frasier's show supposedly was. (And Kelsey has a pretty distinctive voice.) She could have gotten familiar enough with his voice long before John was born.

[Js Nana]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:01 PM, TattleTeeny said:

So, the apartment was Freddy's and he's just leaving it to the not-GF while he grudgingly moves into Frasier's place? Why?

My impression was that Freddie's place was a one-bedroom apartment that he rents and that his father's place is larger and has more bedrooms.

Also, one thing about this series and the original is that the back stories for the new characters in the original series seemed to blend so seamlessly with Frasier's back story, which the audience already knew from Cheers, something which seems to be missing from the new one.  I think what I want to say is that the writing on the original series had a character-centered refinement that seems to be missing from the new one, which seems to have thrown the characters at the audience rather than give the audience time to get to know them.  Maybe the first two episodes should have focused on Frasier coming to grips with the changes life brings - even at that character's age, the passing of your last living parent can leave you feeling like an orphan, bereft of parental guidance and completely unprepared for being promoted to family elder.

[voiceover]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:10 PM, baldryanr said:

Frasier mentioned his Dad had died on Cheers, so they just decided he was lying when he claimed Martin was a dead scientist

Never watched Cheers but Sam brought up the “He said you were dead” thing about Martin during his visit to Seattle.

I thought the second half of this ep quite good, and I laughed a few times — the dramatic DadReveal at the bar, plus that really lovely scene between father and son at the end.  I still have hope.

(Note: “Mamma Mia” was the ep title for Rita Wilson’s turn as Mia, who looked exactly like Frasier’s mother Esther)

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

My impression was that Freddie's place was a one-bedroom apartment that he rents and that his father's place is larger and has more bedrooms.

Yeah, Frasier's has stairs and it doesn't appear that Freddy's (Freddie's?) does, plus Freddy was sleeping on the couch. It still just does not make logical sense to me. And while Frasier is doing a helpful thing in his own way (and for his own reasons), it was Freddy who originally made a selfless sacrifice to help out his friend. Now that Frasier bought the building and there is seemingly enough room for everyone, it would be nice to give Freddy back his own space.

I am overthinking, I know; in strictly "TV logic" it's the obvious solution and we "need" the roommate situation to mirror the original. But the part of me that values my own space and who has lived outside of my parents' homes since I was 19 does not like it!

Edited October 18, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[paigow]

Frasier cannot evict paying tenants willy-nilly... how will he pay for the lobby makeover???

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, paigow said:

Frasier cannot evict paying tenants willy-nilly... how will he pay for the lobby makeover???

I guess Frasier is so fabulously rich that he can make it all happen, but not in the time frame shown.

[Chit Chat]

19 hours ago, Js Nana said:

Maybe the first two episodes should have focused on Frasier coming to grips with the changes life brings - even at that character's age, the passing of your last living parent can leave you feeling like an orphan, bereft of parental guidance and completely unprepared for being promoted to family elder.

I'm curious as to how many stories they came up with for the first 2 episodes before going the direction they did.  I like your idea, but I'm wondering if they were concerned about the show getting bogged down the first episode with Frasier dealing with grief.  I would've been okay with that direction, but with so much going on in the world, maybe they wanted to keep things a bit lighter.

I liked the tribute to John Mahoney. That was nicely done. 

[John M]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

Frasier cannot evict paying tenants willy-nilly... how will he pay for the lobby makeover???

Just a guess, and this kind of fits with Boston, it's not unheard of with older, larger mansions that have been carved up into apartments to have a much larger apartment occupied by the owner with smaller, tenant occupied units.

That would be my guess, that the owner lived in Frasier's unit, which he took possession of with the sale of the building, it's possible that all the other units do in fact have leased in place that could be difficult to break. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by John M

[Irlandesa]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:12 PM, tessaray said:

Frasier and Sam had their own relationship, though it started out with Diane in the middle. It was an unlikely friendship but seemed genuine enough. (Like comrades bonding after a war? 🙂)

Sam's visit to Seattle was much different than Woody's. There was real pleasure on Frasier's part, at least. 

Even though I'm arguing a more temporal and circumstantial relationship between Frasier and the Cheers crew, I absolutely believe those relationships were genuine. The fact that I think the shared experience of the bar propelled how much their lives intertwined doesn't mean I think the relationships were false or fake.  I do think the close contact faded with most of them and it feels natural he'd be more inclined to spending time with his coworkers or in a bar close to home or work.

But it's also possible Sam retired and doesn't live in Boston any longer.