Season 25 Live Feeds Discussion

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Gummo said:

Jillibean, I don't know -- I think there will be a lot of anger on Matt's behalf if Jag takes him out (more than the other way 'round). Jag's only excuse for all the flip-flops and broken promises is "I stayed true to my core alliance." 

If he betrays that, he has to rely on the jury ignoring their own hurt feelings and acknowledging good gameplay. 

Every jury says that's how they'll vote; the reality, well....

Purely MHO, but I suspect the respecting-strategy jury vote vs. the emotionally-butthurt jury vote may, to a significant degree, depend upon a factor of the jury’s composition - applicants vs. recruits:

• Applicants are (almost certainly) fans of the show prior to their appearance; as a result they are much more likely to appreciate and respect BB-specific strategies and plays, and vote accordingly.
• Recruits on the other hand are much less likely* to be fans with at least casual experience of BB, and as a result are more likely to take personal offense at what we would consider basic BB stratagems - and vote accordingly.

I’m suggesting this more as a suggestive guideline than as a hard-and-fast rule; individual jurors’ personal experiences (and/or feelings of betrayal) would certainly weigh in more strongly.  In terms of considering how an F2 with Jag as one of the finalists might shake out, though, it might be worth noting that such a jury would  be either 5:2 or 4:3 in terms of its applicant:recruit ratio - which might indicate more of a “lean” towards a strategy-appreciative jury than a bitter jury.

(ETA: I can’t WAIT to see how this comment ages. 😆)

 

* Not saying impossible, just less likely.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Nashville

[Thalia]

5 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Reilly letter gate alienated Bowie,

This reminded me that I do want to watch tonight's show.  I'm curious to see how much emphasis the show runners give to the letter and Matt's reaction (my best guess?  Lots.)  I didn't realize Bowie was unhappy about it.  I want to see that too. 

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

I suspect the respecting-strategy jury vote vs. the emotionally-butthurt jury vote may, to a significant degree, depend upon a factor of the jury’s composition - applicants vs. recruits:

As a general rule, I think your analysis is spot on. But my only question is: what strategy is there to respect? I expect that Cory respects Jag for getting him first, but was that even the result of a strategic plan? Because it seemed more like an emotional reaction to someone else’s (bad) strategic move. (Sorry, America.) Jag felt betrayed, so Jag switched gears.

Everyone left has been playing a largely emotional game, whether it’s because they’re adhering to their Principles, or because they lack self control, or in some cases, because they’re just not deep thinkers. A little strategy slips in from time to time, but they’re mostly just going where their feelings take them. (Or their God, because I’m sure that little bottle of mustard seeds on the spice rack told Felicia that Bowie is the Devil.)

Good luck to the strategy fans in the jury, because it’s going to be slim pickings.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

But I expect only more dead air from Bowie. Never have I seen anyone so content to coast to third place.

For me, what makes her the worst third placer or runner up is that she HAS won comps. She's not a goat who hasn't won anything; she's literally won comps and has ACTIVELY made moves AGAINST her best interests. Like, there's always been a very clear path to how she could have won but she rejected that path and was like "nah, I'm good, Imma let these two comp threats decide how my game is played and I'll hand my game to them, because comp beasts NEVER win." 

It almost makes it more offensive to me than a Derek F, who was dragged to the end and couldn't win shit or had a bad game in general. 

Bowie's ENTIRE game centers around who included her the best. Which, ok, fair, that's a good part of the game, but instead of using that to advance her game, she basically gave up and decided her entire game should be Jag and Matt's for the sole reason that they included her in some game talks. She's based her game solely for personal reasons, and that just really is the type of gameplay I hate watching. No strategy involved, just solely based on how she feels. 

6 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

I hope it's Jag and Matt at the end.  They're the only two left in the house I don't dislike.  

Matt's been pretty cruel the past couple of weeks, so I don't think I can stomach a Matt win anymore. Jag also got evicted and took two additional weeks after being saved to get a clue, but he's the only one that I can kind of be ok with winning at the moment. 

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Jag probably wants someone else to take out Matt but he's taken out his own allies multiple times so I don't think he cares too much about doing it lol. He also probably thinks, since Cory said Matt was the frontrunner, that taking Matt out is good for him, which I think it is even with Matt basically tanking his game this week.

I honestly don't think Jag has thought for a single second about his jury management. He just expects people to automatically vote for him to win. I mean, if he takes Bowie, he wins unanimously. If he takes Matt or Felicia, he's gonna be in for potentially some tough questioning.

[30 Helens]

It’s very much looking like it will come down to Matt, Jag and Bowie. I once supported Bowie in a kind of anarchistic, she’s the winner this season deserves kind of way, but

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

there's always been a very clear path to how she could have won but she rejected that path and was like "nah, I'm good, Imma let these two comp threats decide how my game is played and I'll hand my game to them

so, yeah. No longer good with that.

For a long time, Matt seemed like a loveable sweet dumdum and he probably nurtured that image to an extent (although I think the dumb part is actually true), but he hasn’t been sweet in a while. Or loveable. I want his little pursed mouth smirk to go away. Looks like he may have lost his guaranteed Cirie jury vote, too. If he goes to F2 with Jag, I think Jag beats him easily.

And at this point, that’s the only outcome I can live with. In the context of this weird, manipulated season filled with clueless misfits, Jag has objectively done a good job. He has won comps, he has prevailed when he needed to, he has remained a decent person. It’s not his fault that his run was boring and predictable. So, yeah. Let’s just give it to Jag* now and put us all out of our misery. 

*or Reilly. Whatever.

Edited October 30, 2023 by 30 Helens

[Gemma Violet]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Matt's been pretty cruel the past couple of weeks

54 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

he hasn’t been sweet in a while.

 

I rarely watch the feeds, so I didn't know about this.  Well, then, I'm all in for Jag.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[30 Helens]

A little bit of late night feeds, for old times’ sake:

Cirie and Felecia play cards and reminisce about gambling trips to Vegas. I need to go there with Cirie— luck seems to be on her side! She describes a couple of big jackpots she won. There’s a lot of joking and cackling, and the one thing I will miss about this season is these two crazy ladies who can barely stand each other yet always seem to be having a good time. They need a sitcom.

Then Felicia tries to get into the HoH room but Jag comes out and intercepts her. They go into the kitchen to make some snacks. (Felicia later theorizes that Jag was keeping her out of the room because the threesome was in there bogarting the wine, and I don’t think she was wrong.) Cheese curds and Thai egg rolls are prepared, and everyone comes out to eat. Then it’s 10:00 and they all head off to bed. Except for Cirie, who lags behind to chat with Jag about her position. She doesn’t want to say much, she just wants him to know that she’s always been with him and Matt, like the 3 musketeers, like Reilly always told Matt she was trustworthy, and she still feels the same. She’s never come after them and she never will. She just wants to go to the end with them. And she loves him. He loves her. They hug, with no middle finger extended this time. She loves him. He loves her. She loves him. (Enough already.) Jag gives her no assurances. Or anything, really.

They laugh and reminisce about the season, and it’s all very fake cheerful. More hugs and I love yous, and Cirie heads to bed.

Cirie updates Felicia about the conversation and how she advocated for the final 4 with Felicia. (Felicia’s name wasn’t mentioned.) She says she told him about the dangers of taking a goat to the end because as she knows from Survivor, the goat sometimes wins. (I didn’t hear any of this either.) Felicia loves all this, because she knows Bowie is the goat, but she fails to recognize that she is the goat, too. And so is Cirie.

They resume their card game and talk about gambling some more. Felicia complains about the others hogging the wine and thinking she’s too stupid to know it. And damn Bowie Jane, that hot mess, ignoring the other women while sitting up there getting tipsy with the boys and not even offering her a glass. They had two bottles! And beer! Felicia continues to rail about the liquor inequity while Cirie just giggles. (Sitcom! I’m telling you!)

Since she can’t get wine, Felicia opts for a pumpkin spice latte. And now I’m wondering, how could you even tell if Felicia got drunk? Loud, boorish behavior is her default. Cirie’s family is coming to her house for Thanksgiving. (Including Jared?) I can’t imagine anything more fun than Thanksgiving with Felicia.

I hate to leave this show because I know it’s being canceled in a few days, but I have to get up early. But first, a quick check on the HoH room to see what Matt and Bowie are up to. Yep, drinking wine. Playing cards. And complaining about Felicia. It’s the parallel anti-verse!

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

As a general rule, I think your analysis is spot on. But my only question is: what strategy is there to respect?

Not much argument there.  The few slivers of strategy I’ve seen are…

• Jag: win comps, and vote out anybody who (a) might be targeting him and/or (b) present much in the way of competition in winning comps.  I would add “and hope the jury respects his comp win record”, except I honestly don’t think it’s occurred to Jag that any juror might base their decision on anything else BUT comp wins.
• Matt: protect his ride-or-die Jag, get both of them to F2, and hope Jag has pissed off more jurors.
• Bowie: get dragged to / win her way to F2, and hope she’s pissed off fewer jurors than her F2 counterpart.
• Cirie: pretty much the same as Bowie - get dragged to to F2 as a goat, and hope she’s pissed off fewer jurors than her F2 counterpart.
• Felicia: try to spin up enough of a chaos cloud to get dragged to F2 as a goat, and hope she’s pissed off fewer jurors than her F2 counterpart.

Notice a pattern here…?  🙄

[pennben]

Apparently Jag & Bowie have now devised a plan to make sure Felicia gets no sleep this week so she’s weak & can’t win comps. I fucking hate the final weeks of this game and they can go fuck right off with this nonsense. 

[30 Helens]

Ok, quick comment about what I heard while I was brushing my teeth:

Jag is very offended by the conversation he had with Cirie. Because before she starting talking about her loyalty to him and Jag, she was asking about his family and saying how she can’t wait to meet them. (Correction, it was actually right after. But regardless, same conversation.) How dare she try to manipulate him by bringing in his family, the thing that matters most to him in the world? He would never do that. She is a horrible person. She has to go.

Bowie agrees that Cirie is terrible. And I kind of wish I had spent more time in this room, because a drunk Bowie is a very bold, loud and vindictive Bowie. And Bowie is very drunk. But then she and Jag begin to devise ways they can torture Cerie and Felicia this week, from turning them against each other to making them stay up all night, to building Felicia’s paranoia to the point where she cracks and can’t play the HoH comp. Matt comes in, and they gleefully pull them into their plans. And they’re all having way too much fun with this, and I can’t. Don’t make me feel sorry for Felicia, people. (And don’t make me go back on my earlier comments about how Jag is still a decent person. Because I’m just about there.)

Edited October 30, 2023 by 30 Helens

[TwistedandBored]

I am gonna miss Cirie and her hatred for the BB house. Also, the 3 clowns really should spend time apart cause that wine and their need to gas up each other is making them even more annoying than usual. 

[LeDucDiableBleu]

The wine has been a huge topic the past couple days. Matt and Bowie each got a bottle of wine in their HOH baskets. They didn't open the bottles because they didn't want Cirie and Fe to have any, because they "didn't deserve it." So they waited to have a wine party for the three of them later. Bowie was mad about waiting and she was fantasizing about drinking the bottle all day. And Matt lied about going to bed at like 9pm so he didn't have to hang out with Cir and Fe anymore. CBS Production must have thought this was unfair and crass because they dropped a bottle of wine in the storage room and two cans of beer. This was obviously for Cirie and Fe, because of the hurt feelings around the topic all day. Well Bowie literally ran to get the bottle and divvy it up equally between clear glasses for all 5, and she took one of the cans of beer "for the boys." Nevermind that they already have two whole bottles for themselves. They had to split this new one 5 ways. And Bowie was bitching about that when she got back upstairs. Jag asked Matt to open his bottle. Matt said "I promised Cirie I would save her some, but her ass is leaving in three days so..." 

 

ETA: this was last night

Edited October 30, 2023 by LeDucDiableBleu

[30 Helens]

18 minutes ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

And Bowie was bitching about that when she got back upstairs. Jag asked Matt to open his bottle. Matt said "I promised Cirie I would save her some, but her ass is leaving in three days so..." 

It’s amazing how a little power + a little liquor can turn some people into total assholes.

[peachmangosteen]

Cirie and Felicia were making fun of Bowie's teeth without the help of liquor and no one seemed to really care so the moral outrage over this is a little much imo.

[Brian Cronin]

9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Cirie and Felicia were making fun of Bowie's teeth without the help of liquor and no one seemed to really care so the moral outrage over this is a little much imo.

Yeah, this is all super tame shit that happens every year. Matt's Tate-shit is a different story, but the general petty "they suck, we're great, since we're winning comps, we must be the morally correct ones" stuff is inevitable. Essentially no one is immune to this sort of thing. 

[LeDucDiableBleu]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Cirie and Felicia were making fun of Bowie's teeth without the help of liquor and no one seemed to really care so the moral outrage over this is a little much imo.

I remember lots of posts saying Cirie and Felicia were wrong for that. There was definitely outrage over it.

[choclatechip45]

It's hard for me to get upset over wine gate though I do prefer Cirie/Felicia. Yeah it's kind of shitty, but in the general consensus of shitty big brother behavior, it's pretty tame. I do think Matt being shitty to Cirie is an interesting jury management strategy. You would think a high level swimmer would be super competitive and it seems like he is not. 

[peachmangosteen]

Yea @Brian Cronin this happens all the time and this is SO tame compared to other seasons. I feel like it's probably recency bias. I see Bowie/Jag/Matt being compared to Christmas/Paul/Josh and like I do see the similarities but even with what a misogynist Matt is the C/P/J were way worse people than The Mafia.

Plus, saying shit like 'I'm gonna keep them up at night' is different than actually doing it and I haven't seen anything to suggest they actually did any of this. People talk shit behind backs all the time so this doesn't feel any different imo.

[Cutty]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

• Bowie: get dragged to / win her way to F2, and hope she’s pissed off fewer jurors than her F2 counterpart.

Imagining Bowie giving a pitch on live TV about why she deserves to win over Matt or Jag would be so off the rails awkward and cringe. It's actually making me uncomfortable thinking about it. 

[peachmangosteen]

I don't see much difference in Matt and Bowie's games tbh.

[Nashville]

33 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Yeah, this is all super tame shit that happens every year. Matt's Tate-shit is a different story, but the general petty "they suck, we're great, since we're winning comps, we must be the morally correct ones" stuff is inevitable. Essentially no one is immune to this sort of thing. 

If you’re an asshole to start with, yeah sure; otherwise, agree to disagree.  It’s been a hot decade or so since I last read Revelations, but I’m pretty sure being a game opponent in BB is NOT one of the identifying characteristics of the Antichrist.

 

13 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't see much difference in Matt and Bowie's games tbh.

There isn’t; not between Bowie’s game, or Matt’s - or Cirie’s or Felicia’s for that matter.

At this point I’m just wondering what chaos would ensue if Jag were to somehow get knocked out in the next HoH because:

1. Various individual oratories not withstanding, it appears to me everybody is assuming Jag will end up occupying one of the two F2 chairs.
2. All non-Jag HGs are gauging what their best approach would be against Jag at F2, and determining their game moves on that basis.
3. If Jag were to get knocked out in the F4 eviction, I’m sure there would be much rejoicing - but once the initial euphoria played out, I don’t think a single one of these chucklenuts would have a fucking clue of what their next steps should be.

[peachmangosteen]

Bowie and Felicia would probably both just take Matt to F2 if given the choice because they hate other lol. Matt would take Bowie. 

 

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Bowie and Felicia would probably both just take Matt to F2 if given the choice because they hate other lol. Matt would take Bowie. 

 

Yeah - but what arguments are they going to use at F2?  That’s kinda the point I was trying to get at.

I strongly suspect that for the past week or so AT LEAST, Bowie/Cirie/Matt/Felicia (well, maybe not Felicia) have been formulating and honing what their speeches will be should they make it to F2 - but they’ve been doing so with the assumption Jag would be occupying the other F2 chair.  What happens, then, if that chair gets kicked out from under them - if Jag gets evicted right prior to F3?  All their carefully crafted anti-Jag oratory goes right into the shitter, and they have exactly one week to come up with alternate arguments to apply to either of two other F3 opponents - and ain’t none of this bunch exactly noted for thinking fast on their feet.

Low odds, I know - but I like thinking about the scenario, because the results could be HILARIOUS.  😆

[Brian Cronin]

52 minutes ago, Nashville said:

If you’re an asshole to start with, yeah sure; otherwise, agree to disagree.

We're just talking about shit-talking your opponents. That happens in pretty much every organized game around. Heck, it's often one of those things where you come off looking weird when you DON'T shit-talk while the others are shit-talking. 

I don't mean some of the super nasty stuff we've seen over the years, but basic shit-talking is pretty much a given. 

[Nashville]

23 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

We're just talking about shit-talking your opponents. That happens in pretty much every organized game around. Heck, it's often one of those things where you come off looking weird when you DON'T shit-talk while the others are shit-talking. 

I don't mean some of the super nasty stuff we've seen over the years, but basic shit-talking is pretty much a given. 

Don’t get me wrong; I don’t disagree that ingestion of the shit-talky mushrooms hasn’t become a staple of the reality television diet - I simply question whether it has to be.  IMHO over the last 8-10 years or so, BB has gotten into the practice of normalizing the deviation, with successive seasons getting progressively worse.

[peachmangosteen]

If people didn’t shit talk this show would be 10 times more boring than it already is lol. 

[Nashville]

Looking back at the discussion, I think it might help somewhat if we clarified terms as to what does and does not constitute actual “shit-talking”:

• Casting aspersions on another HG’s gameplay, and emphasizing its negative impact on other players? To me that’s a right and proper gameplay strategy, and should be a tool in every players toolbox.
• Casting aspersions on another HG’s character, though, and suggesting that you are a better pick than your opponent because you are “good” and they are “bad” (or you’re better than them, at least)…? To me this sort of character assassination is going out of bounds, and putting actual shit into the shit-talking.

 

Another question I have (and this is an actual question, not an argument): is such character assassination shit-talking even effective? I ask because I seem to have a general impression that in F2s where one HG has been particularly egregious with the character-based shit-talk compared to the other, the less offensive HG tends to win - but as I said this is purely an impression I have, and I’m not sure if it’s based on fact.

[Brian Cronin]

I don't think people make determinations based on shit-talking at all, oddly enough (I agree that it seems like something they WOULD do). It's usually just grudges over evictions. 

Like, last year, Taylor was obviously MUCH more well-liked than Monte, since she didn't talk shit as much, but it still likely came down to gameplay. People resented Monte for how he played them all, and Taylor was the recipient of those votes. Like Tyler/Kaycee, except unlike Tyler, it wasn't like Monte was some mastermind, so he didn't even really get the benefit of the "mastermind" votes. Hence him getting his ass kicked in the vote. 

[LeDucDiableBleu]

I think a lot of the reaction is simply being shocked at Matt's attitude toward Cirie, because up to now he was acting like Cirie's BFF and F2. And that reaction is from the fans, Cirie isn't fazed at all and is carrying on like normal. She wasn't kicking up a fuss about the wine, Felicia was.

[30 Helens]

If someone is being an asshole, I’m going to call them out for it. “Everybody does it” is not a valid excuse in my book. And there are degrees— a little shit talking, a little extra smugness over a win or whatever, I’m not gonna give that more than an eyeroll. But they (Matt and Bowie especially, Jag only came in near the end of what I saw) were being extra extra last night. They were having way too much fun with imagining just how bad they could make Felicia and Cirie feel in the next few days, and basically doubled over in laughter at their plans of torturing Felicia beyond that. Not inviting the others to their wine party is rude, but it is their right. But then rushing in to steal the drinks left for Cirie and Felicia, just because you can, is a shitty move.

Felicia and Cirie haven’t been exactly kind to Bowie, either, so I get that she may not be inclined to treat them well. But this is the first time I’ve seen Bowie act like this, and it wasn’t a good look. For Matt to take such pleasure in plotting the demise of a woman (Cirie) who has treated him well from what I’ve seen, was a terrible look on him.

Again, there’s trash talk, and there’s asshole talk. The first kind can be fun to watch, the second isn’t, at least not for me. I wouldn’t say I’m “morally outraged”, I’m not sitting here clutching my pearls or anything, but I thought their behavior sucked and if they thought they held the moral high ground, they don’t any more.

[Lamima]

So, Matt and Bowie have made dumb moves and just done Jag's bidding. They are there to win for themselves yet they've played the game of a runner up. So I can't root for that. And Jag was voted out so I can't root for him. Felicia has done nothing and is irritating so I can't root for her. Guess I am rooting for Cirie. Solely based on the fact they should have gotten her out numero uno yet here she is a final 5. And I liked her on Survivor. Won't feel like a true win as she had a lot of help from production (having her son in the game too). But, this season sucked such big hairy ones that I really have nothing left to really root for so...Cirie it is. And she's looking like a goner this week. Boo.

[Thalia]

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

Felicia and Cirie haven’t been exactly kind to Bowie, either, so I get that she may not be inclined to treat them well. But this is the first time I’ve seen Bowie act like this, and it wasn’t a good look. For Matt to take such pleasure in plotting the demise of a woman (Cirie) who has treated him well from what I’ve seen, was a terrible look on him.

 

My initial dislike of Bowie came during the period when she nominated Cameron and his eviction.  Hours before the veto ceremony, she was loyal to him and said she couldn't nominate him.  Then after Jag told her that Cameron was considering evicting her, she nominated him.  That made sense.  But beyond that she was just vicious in her condemnation of him, going far beyond what Cory and America, the two with the most reason to dislike him, said.  And it appeared to me that it was all because the "cool kids" laughed and agreed with her every time she said something mean.  

And ever since, as has been noticed time and again, it has seemed like she's more concerned with being in the trio with Matt and Jag than in playing the game for herself.   OTOH, it probably is getting her further in the game than I would have thought midseason.  

 

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

I don't think people make determinations based on shit-talking at all, oddly enough (I agree that it seems like something they WOULD do). It's usually just grudges over evictions. 

Like, last year, Taylor was obviously MUCH more well-liked than Monte, since she didn't talk shit as much, but it still likely came down to gameplay. People resented Monte for how he played them all, and Taylor was the recipient of those votes. Like Tyler/Kaycee, except unlike Tyler, it wasn't like Monte was some mastermind, so he didn't even really get the benefit of the "mastermind" votes. Hence him getting his ass kicked in the vote. 

This actually leads into a question I’ve considered (internally) more than once: what are the true elements upon which jurors base their votes?  I can think of a few off the top of my head:

1. Strategic appreciation (vote for).
2. Personal dislike/bitter juror (vote against).
3. Simple popularity contest.
4. #3, but with accompanying #1 or #2 rationalization(s).

Etc., etc. - any others?

 

[peachmangosteen]

Like 90% of the time it's #4 lol.

[30 Helens]

29 minutes ago, Nashville said:

1. Strategic appreciation (vote for).
2. Personal dislike/bitter juror (vote against).
3. Simple popularity contest.
4. #3, but with accompanying #1 or #2 rationalization(s).

Etc., etc. - any others?

5. Number of comps won.

What’s valued most is going to depend on the juror, of course, but I assume most people project themselves in the F2 seat. So if they tried to play a strategic game, they’ll go for the strategic player. If they’re an athletic type, they’ll award the comp beast. But I think a lot of people have trouble thinking objectively so most will just pick their closest friend.

Something I’ve wondered— I’ve read the first person in the jury house sets the tone for deliberations. Is this true? Do they really have that much influence? And if so, how badly is Cameron going to wreck this jury?

[Jillibean]

3 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

If someone is being an asshole, I’m going to call them out for it. “Everybody does it” is not a valid excuse in my book.

Bravo. 

I understand that the element of cognitive dissonance that we often see on this show. But I also don't think that means people shouldn't be held accountable for what they're saying. They know there are cameras on them all the time. They are making active choices about what they want to say about people. I don't think keeping people up with pots and pans should be the baseline for when it has gone too far. 

Meanwhile, Jag's family has been on social media all season talking about what a kind person he is, how he would never tolerate bullying of any kind, and how everyone should be Team Jag and buy tee shirts to proclaim themselves as such in honor of his commitment to respect and dignity for others. So...this is embarrassing, I'd say. It's interesting to me how much more likable he was as a person when Cory, who was actually anti-bullying and shut down personal attacks on people, was still in the mix. Jag seems very easily influenced by whomever his most recent game buddies are, both in terms of the way he speaks about people and his game moves. 

I really hope some of the press clocks Matt on the sexist statements. Among the more recent gems is the comment that America may be smart in real life, but she played a dumb game because she didn't know how to cook or do laundry. Which is obviously a sexist and awful thing to say, and even worse when you factor in that she's Mexican, but also...America did (her own, and sometimes Cory's) laundry all the time? What the hell is he even talking about at this point? Did he expect her to do his laundry? Like what even is happening?

7 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Something I’ve wondered— I’ve read the first person in the jury house sets the tone for deliberations. Is this true? Do they really have that much influence? And if so, how badly is Cameron going to wreck this jury?

I think Cameron will have zero influence over Cory, America, or Cirie. Cory and America will vote for whomever they think is the best overall player, and they'll vote together. Cirie will vote for either the best player or Felicia out of solidarity if fe makes F2. Blue will vote for whomever she thinks is the best player, aka the person she likes the best because she can't tell those things apart. Cameron is going to vote for Jag, if he makes it, Matt, if he doesn't, and probably death, if neither does. I think Felicia and Bowie would both vote personally. I have no idea what Matt would do, because Reilly didn't tell him what to do for a F2 vote, so...

Edited October 30, 2023 by Jillibean

[peachmangosteen]

20 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Did he expect her to do his laundry? Like what even is happening?

I’ve read that Bowie does his laundry so maybe. But Twitter has posted so much bullshit and actual lies so I don’t know if that’s true lol.

So did they start torturing Felicia yet? 

[kellog010]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I’ve read that Bowie does his laundry so maybe. But Twitter has posted so much bullshit and actual lies so I don’t know if that’s true lol.

I've seen Bowie do Matt and Jags laundry as well as make their beds for them.

Nov 9 is a long way off...

[Never Again]

I really just want to see what’s happening in the jury house already 

[Mamababy600]

28 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

I've seen Bowie do Matt and Jags laundry as well as make their beds for them.

Nov 9 is a long way off...

Omg, that's pathetic. But she's said her goal is to play as long as possible. So, she's accomplished that!

[atomic]

2 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Did he expect her to do his laundry?

Yes. Matt went on multiple rants last week about how he'd be happy to see America go since she won't even cook or clean for him. 

He's disgusting and the fact that Reilly all of sudden has feelings for him in spite of seeing his misogyny on full display really goes to show what a desperate clout chaser she is.

[pennben]

Uhoh. Jag is saying that he/Matt are better than the Hitmen. No more slurping from Derrick/Cody.  And apparently fact they didn’t control the entire game (cough, entire first half), makes them better!

[30 Helens]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

Yes. Matt went on multiple rants last week about how he'd be happy to see America go since she won't even cook or clean for him.

Ugh. It’s like he keeps trying to give us new reasons to loathe him. It also makes me question Jag’s opinions about women if he doesn’t push back on this shit at all.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

5. Number of comps won.

Considering Jag’s entire strategy appears to consist of winning comps I’d halfway lumped that mentally with #1, but sure - we can split that out into its own category, and add another as well:

6. Social game.

 

5 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Something I’ve wondered— I’ve read the first person in the jury house sets the tone for deliberations. Is this true? Do they really have that much influence? And if so, how badly is Cameron going to wreck this jury?

Who wrote that - the first person in Jury? 😄

I can see that as an either/or; the first person in Jury will have the most exposure to the other jurors as they come in, but likewise they’ll be the furthest removed from the most recent goings-on in the House.

2 hours ago, atomic said:

He's disgusting and the fact that Reilly all of sudden has feelings for him in spite of seeing his misogyny on full display really goes to show what a desperate clout chaser she is.

I sincerely doubt Riley is following the feeds, so I expect she’s just going by Matt’s popularity in the general public polls. We’ll just  have to wait and see how Reilly reacts when/if Matt’s true antics leak out to the world.

[30 Helens]

Tonight’s episode of Ce and Fe. Or FeCes, if you’re so inclined. Felicia is feeling insulted. Now that the others don’t need them anymore, they’re treating them like dirt. They won’t even talk to them. Two kids, one trying to be a kid. Older people would have more respect.

Ce doesn’t give a fuck. If you don’t want to be around me, I don’t want to be around you. If she gets a chance to turn the tables, she’ll show them something. But she won’t waste her time trying to tell them anything.

Cut to Jag/Matt/Bowie. “We are the mustard seeds. We are your mustard seed.” Ce and Fe should be grateful, they’re only still here because we kept saving them.

Jag wonders if they could get Fe to throw HoH. Matt suggests telling her if she wins, she can’t win the special midweek HoH that comes up this time in the game, and that will put her at a disadvantage. She won’t know any better. They continue plotting, as cameras switch back to Fe/Ce. They are studying their weeks.

[30 Helens]

Back to Jag and the Jagholes: They are still plotting Operation Pressure Cracker. (Their name.) They want to convince Fe that the “second competition” is physical, so she will think she needs to throw it and wait for the next. I don’t understand what they’re talking about, but if you hear Jag telling Felicia something like this tomorrow, that’s why. It’s about feeding her wrong information so she will jump to wrong conclusions and screw herself.
 

[30 Helens]

Felicia is leading the studying, and she’s focusing on weird things. Visual details like how many yellow dots in this room, how many standing books vs laying down books, how many potted plants. She says she spent hours today staring at a wall, memorizing it. They need to be working on fast recall of events, like who won what in what week, but it’s just not happening.
 

[30 Helens]

Jagholes in the kitchen: BJ feels like they threw a 3-month party, and everyone’s gone home. It’s so weird to have the place all to themselves.

Fe comes out and sits at the counter. They look at her like that 31st day fish who just won’t leave. Idle chitchat amongst the three who are preparing some snacks. Nobody says a word to Felicia for several minutes. At one point, Bowie starts to giggle to herself. Good thing they’re all wearing robes, because it’s ice cold in there.

Edited October 31, 2023 by 30 Helens

[30 Helens]

Jag and Fe are left alone in the kitchen, with Bowie within earshot. Felicia asks Jag what’s going on, because she and Felicia are feeling isolated. It feels like something has shifted. Jag is shocked. He doesn’t know what she’s talking about. He just hanging out with Matt like he always has. Nothing has changed. He never wants her or Ce to feel isolated, because he knows how that feels. He purposefully never leaves the room when they enter. It must just be because there are so few people left. And as far as game, he still wants her around. The plan is the same.

Bowie runs outside to tell Matt that Felicia has cornered Jag and it’s so awkward. And before that, wasn’t it sooo awkward? He can’t believe how awkward it was. What is with her, just coming into the kitchen and asking “what’s up?”. WTF.

[30 Helens]

 

Cerie is in the yard, saying goodnight to the J-holes. They are practicing their gaslighting Crack Up plan on her. And this is how it goes:

If you win the next HoH, you have to sit out the first part of the 3-part comp. That means you go straight to the second (physical) part. If you lose that, you can’t play the third (mental) part. So if you want to avoid the physical challenge and play the mental challenge instead, you better not win this next HoH!

Cirie is amazed to hear all this. I can’t tell if she’s buying it, but she acts like she does. She wonders if Felicia knows this. She may just go tell her now. Jag thinks she should!

They tell Cirie how Felicia just stared them down for 30 minutes in the kitchen. It made them all very uncomfortable. Cirie says Fe is feeling isolated. They all deny it. Bowie says I used to go in comic room all the time and she would act like I wasn’t there. What cheek! (She has a point.) Cirie thinks Fe is just feeling this way because she’s on the block. Jag apologizes if he made them feel bad, he never meant it. Cirie is good with that.