S02.E10: Hegemony

[starri]

Quote

 

When the USS Enterprise investigates an attack on a colony at the edge of Federation space, Captain Pike and his crew face the return of a formidable enemy. (Season finale)

 

[paigow]

Kobayashi Maru for Pike... Instead of musicals, Batel watched Alien 3... Of course colonizing using Mayberry as a template always works out..

[Zaffy]

A Cliffhanger? LOL!

Not bad, but nothing really good either. Which makes it a typical s2 episode of SNW.

There was a lot of plot armor and quite a big dose of stupidity.
Like how they used the saucer as a weapon without knowing if and how many survivors might be still in it. well, as long as they saved one of their own...

L'aan is not a good actress... I could not stand the deadly serious -I-am-constipated-way she delivered every of her Gorn related lines..  Thank the Gods she didn't have many.
On the contrary I admire Ortegas actress, she does what she can with the weak material she is given.

I enjoyed the 3rd Scotty! Quite good. I think all 3 Scotties have been very good choices. You do  need subtitles to get some of his lines though.

So Batal -my middle name is Ripley- might survive? But will it be as a human? Maybe she will become the Gorn Queen?

What's the point of Sam Kirk again?

Of course Pike will end up saving the rest of his crew (and maybe a few colonists). Probably using his cooking skills. Which makes the cliffhanger even more stupid.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Zaffy

[baldryanr]

To be continued... in 2025, most likely.  Pike doesn't really have a choice, though.  Forget the orders, the Enterprise is outnumbered and there doesn't seem to be any backup nearby.  Can't rescue everyone if you've been blown to bits, so time to retreat and regroup.

Every time we see the Gorn I'm more convinced the one Kirk fought was an arthritic senior citizen.

[paigow]

This is how Ortegas can get written out... She becomes a host... therefore untouchable... beams everybody else off and crashes the ship

[tallykat]

I recently watched the S1 episode with the Gorn. One of the things that bothers me about the species, which keeps me from caring about this conflict is the disregard for physical science with regard to the Gorn. How can a creature that lays eggs that hatch within days and then grow to full-size versions exist without consuming huge quantities of energy/calories to achieve that goal? Maybe if the eggs completely consume the host before hatching, and almost immediately render the host incapacitated...

And then, unless they are going to mess with the timeline, we know the stakes going in...Nurse Chapel will be found. M'Benga and Sam Kirk are most likely survivors. I'm sure the writers feel like their hands are tied knowing who must survive because their future is known.

Until the reveal that Pike's girlfriend is now a hatchery, I was wondering if he would perhaps try to find a way to communicate with the Gorn and work out a solution. Maybe he'll trade the hatchery for the hostages. We'll have to wait and see.

Speaking of waiting and seeing, yes, I am that gullible that until there was only 5 minutes left in the episode, I thought (most) things would be resolved by the end. And it wouldn't be so bad if it were a regular "back-in-the-day" To be continued... where we only had to wait from May to September to find out who makes it and who doesn't. But instead, it will likely be over a year and we will have to watch this episode all over again because we will have forgotten all the little details.

Montgomery Scott to the rescue! Saved the captains and saved the episode from complete disaster.

[paulvdb]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

Of course Pike will end up saving the rest of his crew (and maybe a few colonists). Probably using his cooking skills. Which makes the cliffhanger even more stupid.

Of course. Why didn't I think of that immediately? Once the Gorn taste Pike's cooking they will never want to eat humans again and they'll release the Enterprise crew members and the colonists.

[paigow]

Scotty is now younger than Kirk???? Inevitably, Captain Gorn will target engineering instead of the bridge, killing everyone except Scotty.

[tv-talk]

Boooo! Did not want to see a 'to be continued' with the strike on, who knows when we will ever see how this resolves, though honestly it was so paint by numbers we can probably guess. 

Did not like that BOTH Patel and Christine were presumed dead and we get two reunion of boyfriend scenes. I mean Christine was the only person left alive on the ship? And as much as I've been waiting for the classic Trek 'no human can do this, only Spock can' moment...why was that again? No human can float over to the ship and stick magnet jets onto it? Ok...

Overall an ok episode but I think to give it the weight it needs at least 2 characters need to be killed off in the resolution. Patel I will assume is a goner, so someone out of Carol Kane, Ortega, and La'an gotta go as we know everyone else lives thru this. 

Pike looked genuinely overwhelmed at the end, that was a good touch and not something you ever really saw from Kirk. My guess is he retreats much to the chagrin of some crew, then of course Scotty and Kane rig up the thinga-ma-bob and the Enterprise becomes invisible to Gorn. Then of course they mount the rescue mission since thankfully the Gorn havent bothered to harm anyone they beamed up and are just keeping them all in a room where M'Benga, La'an, and Ortega can plot as Mayberry residents mill around groaning and sporting bloodied bandages.

Edited August 10, 2023 by tv-talk

[tv-talk]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Of course colonizing using Mayberry as a template always works out..

Mayberry or medieval peasantry, those are your choices.

[dwmarch]

3 hours ago, Zaffy said:

So Batal -my middle name is Ripley- might survive? But will it be as a human? Maybe she will become the Gorn Queen?

That was kind of funny. The creature comes up, snarls at her and then immediately departs in a scene shamelessly lifted from Alien 3. Listen, Gorn youngling, I have seen Xenomorphs before and you sir, are no Xenomorph.

I would not love it if Batel was rescued from the planet only to die from the unwanted pregnancy which must be terminated because of the risk to the mother. Say, I wonder if they are reaching for a particular metaphor here, perhaps trying to drag some modern-day politics into the plot? Nah...

42 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

I mean Christine was the only person left alive on the ship?

Yeah, that was weird. The Cayuga is a decent-sized ship, you'd think there could be one or two more sealed compartments somewhere inside the hull where crewpersons might have holed up awaiting rescue. Too bad, you've been reassigned planet-side!

45 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

And as much as I've been waiting for the classic Trek 'no human can do this, only Spock can' moment...why was that again? No human can float over to the ship and stick magnet jets onto it?

They didn't really show him doing it but there is an implication that Spock has to pilot the Cayuga's saucer which makes this a weird reference to the Insane Clown Posse's Wizard of the Hood album, which is a retelling of The Wizard of Oz. "I seen her in the window so I was running around moving shit and aiming it so!"

[Stardancer Supreme]

If any Star Trek series didn't need a cliffhanger, Strange New Worlds certainly didn't need one.  Now, understanding how things work in the canon, we knew Chapel would survive this event, however improbable it may have seemed. Either Sickbay is bigger than we thought or that Lieutenant Mitchell was wrong in her assessment that Sickbay was part of the missing saucer piece.

I am hopeful that Batel can survive being a Gorn hatchery.  I instantly knew what was up when she faced the Gorn youngling.  Did anybody bother to check if any more women were implanted? 

Scotty! I had assumed that it was Chapel in that shuttle. It was a smooth seamless way to introduce him.  

I'm not going to worry too much about the human captives on the Gorn ship. They have the Butcher of J'Gal among them. 

Again, this should have been a double episode. This didn't need a cliffhanger; we could have resolved the Gorn crisis and have things set in place for the final Season 3.  They can't extend much more story out of this series because we are closing in on Pike's fate. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Stardancer Supreme

[tennisgurl]

A cliffhanger? Really?! I was really hoping that we could get this all wrapped up by the end of the episode, I really feel like this didn't need to be a two-parter. We know that at least Chapel and M'Benga are going to have to survive (unless the timeline has gotten even more screwy) and obviously the ship isn't going to blow up, so there isn't a lot of tension nor does it really work from a story perspective. 

This episode was alright, a bit of a letdown after what has been a generally strong season. Rather paint by numbers like it usually is with the Gorn, they managed to mine some decent tension here and there and some nice character moments, but I wish that we could have ended the season on a higher note, especially because its likely we wont have the show back for awhile. 

I'm starting to suspect that either the Gorn who fought Kirk was from a splinter group or the Gorn have changed a LOT in a few years because these Xenomorph knock offs don't have a lot in common with that lizardman, beyond having scales.

Scotty! Nice to see him pop up and they managed his introduction pretty well, even if they are doing that prequel thing where everyone who we met in the original thing always meet each other super early so it feels like the same dozen or so people are the only people in the world that ever do anything. I really like the guy they cast as young Scottie, he really has the vibe down.

Pike just looked absolutely exhausted by the end, Anson Mount did a great job as always. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by tennisgurl

[baldryanr]

14 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Again, this should have been a double episode. This didn't need a cliffhanger; we could have resolved the Gorn crisis and have things set in place for the final Season 3.  They can't extend much more story out of this series because we are closing in on Pike's fate. 

??? Kirk has just become (or is about to become) XO of the Farragut - unless he's going for a Kelvinverse promotion trajectory it's going to be at least a few years (in-universe) before he takes over the Enterprise, and a few years in-universe can be stretched out until things get too expensive/the actors want to leave.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, tallykat said:

I recently watched the S1 episode with the Gorn. One of the things that bothers me about the species, which keeps me from caring about this conflict is the disregard for physical science with regard to the Gorn. How can a creature that lays eggs that hatch within days and then grow to full-size versions exist without consuming huge quantities of energy/calories to achieve that goal? Maybe if the eggs completely consume the host before hatching, and almost immediately render the host incapacitated...

And then, unless they are going to mess with the timeline, we know the stakes going in...Nurse Chapel will be found. M'Benga and Sam Kirk are most likely survivors. I'm sure the writers feel like their hands are tied knowing who must survive because their future is known.

Until the reveal that Pike's girlfriend is now a hatchery, I was wondering if he would perhaps try to find a way to communicate with the Gorn and work out a solution. Maybe he'll trade the hatchery for the hostages. We'll have to wait and see.

Speaking of waiting and seeing, yes, I am that gullible that until there was only 5 minutes left in the episode, I thought (most) things would be resolved by the end. And it wouldn't be so bad if it were a regular "back-in-the-day" To be continued... where we only had to wait from May to September to find out who makes it and who doesn't. But instead, it will likely be over a year and we will have to watch this episode all over again because we will have forgotten all the little details.

Montgomery Scott to the rescue! Saved the captains and saved the episode from complete disaster.

Putting aside that it's sci fi and they can wave electrons and say "that's just how things work," it seems to me that the show has established that the Gorn young do consume huge quantities of energy/calories to grow. They've stated that the Gorn young eat each other in the battle for dominance and they then seemingly keep a bunch of humans around for food. How long it takes to go from one of the younger Gorn that we saw at the beginning to the adult Gorn on the Cuyahoga is anyone's guess.

Yes, the trouble with a prequel is that we "know" that certain characters have lives beyond the scope of the series. Pike has to survive to save the cadets and to allow the events of TOS's "The Menagerie" to happen. Spock and Uhura are unkillable. And now add Scotty to the mix as well. Chapel has to survive so that "What Are Little Girls Made Of" and her other TOS appearances happen. Sam Kirk has to survive everything in SNW because he dies in "Operation Annihilate." 

Which leaves Una, Ortegas, Pelia and Mitchell (I guess) as the only recurring characters who are in any danger.

But then again, SNW could just openly deviate from TOS/be set in a parallel universe/have timey wimey stuff and kill off whoever they want. 

And also, it's rare that a Trek show kills off a regular or impactful character permanently anyway. Across the various Trek series off the top of my head, I've got: Tasha Yar, Jadzia Dax, Trip (if you can call his death in the series finale that)....and that may be it. ETA: Forgot Hemmer. Almost as many people have been killed and brought back, replaced with a doppelganger or something (Spock, Culber and Georgiou, Elnor, Data).

Edited August 10, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[starri]

37 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

They can't extend much more story out of this series because we are closing in on Pike's fate. 

In universe, we’re still six or seven years out from the accident.  Even if they keep with the 1 season = 1 year that prior shows had done, they’ve got plenty of time to fill.

[Stardancer Supreme]

7 minutes ago, starri said:

In universe, we’re still six or seven years out from the accident.  Even if they keep with the 1 season = 1 year that prior shows had done, they’ve got plenty of time to fill.

 

But, Paramount isn't sticking with the 7 seasons standard for Trek Series anymore. Discovery is ending at Season 5, they just cancelled Prodigy, and probably will start doing limited series and movies.  At the pace that Strange New Worlds is going, I would not be surprised if the upcoming 3rd Season is also the last one.

[starri]

That would be true even if the show was on broadcast.  I’m just pointing out that there’s a lot of story between this episode (in 2259) and Pike being hurt (in 2266). 
If the powers that be grant it, there’s plenty of time. 

[paigow]

Transporters fix everything. Get pre pregnancy DNA from Casa Pike... Store Batel in the buffer, filter out Gorn DNA and rematerialize.

[paigow]

So a bunch of Gorns caught a virus that made them walk upright very slowly and reconfigured their entire reproductive process - eliminating the need to kidnap alien hosts....

[Prevailing Wind]

Why do insectoid species always have gelatinous saliva?

 

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Why do insectoid species always have gelatinous saliva?

 

Not saliva... Concentrated acid for blood...

[Prevailing Wind]

Oh, jeez, that's even worse.

 

[paigow]

15 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Oh, jeez, that's even worse.

 

A quote from Aliens... since these writers are copy and pasting from James Cameron...

[wanderingstar]

Yay for a cliffhanger! I love a good monster story, and they made those Gorn look appropriately monstrous and terrifying. And I loved how the tension increased every time we saw the shadow of a Gorn tail (:::shudder:::) I don't even want to think about what La'an, M'Benga, Ortegas, and Sam are going to be put through on that Gorn ship.

So, Batel didn't get killed - at least not yet.

Was that Chappel/Spock floating in space shot a nod to Voyager?

Uhura teaming up with Pelia was lovely to see.

I will miss this show (the wait for season 3 will be a long one).

[Lebanna]

I feel like this show (like Discovery) is supposed to be a 5 year mission, just as TOS was intended to be. 

But… there’s no reason that this needs to just be 5 years not 7.

Pike does his 5 year mission and then maybe, maybe, maybe, we just skip forward in the timeline three years and get the rest of TOS and their 5 year mission. So two years more with Scotty, Uhura, Chapel, Bones, Kirk and Spock and whoever else wants to stick around (to have come back ‘after three years away’) and whoever they want to add (Chekov, Sulu, Yeoman Rand, etc). Plus, they could even visit every now and then with Pike, just to show for real that his planet really is not such a ‘cage’.

I think the only cannon characters who we know did the full 5 years together are Scotty, Sulu, Bones, Kirk, Uhura and Spock, our ‘film crew’, (not Chekov necessarily as he might have been there the whole time or not, ‘Wrath of Khan’ being confusing on this point) so there is leeway to gain or lose the others. I mean, that would be the dream, for those original fans who are still mad that TOS got cancelled back in the day (i.e. my mother, yes it’s personal!).

Come on, those fans are all in their 60s, 70s and 80s now, it would be so cool to give them those two years back.

Anyway, I can live with the cliffhanger. We know Batel goes out at some point, as we already know that she’s not who Pike ends up with. And as a half-Scot, I can’t tell you how happy I am to have a version of Scotty who is Scottish, finally. No more long diatribes on exactly which parts of the accent, slang, etc are wrong. Bonus!

Although having said that, it’s so nice for Scotland to get some representation as well and I think all the actors who have played Scotty are a bit beloved. The character means a lot to many Scottish people and the pride they take in their cultural history of innovation, science and engineering.

And, like those from Kenya, Russia, Iowa, Mississippi, Japan/California, etc, the idea that we all have a peaceful future together as friends in the stars.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Lebanna

[Ceindreadh]

10 minutes ago, Lebanna said:

I feel like this show (like Discovery) is supposed to be a 5 year mission, just as TOS was intended to be. 

But… there’s  reason that this needs to just be 5 years not 7.

Pike does his 5 year mission and then maybe, maybe, maybe, we just skip forward in the timeline three years and get the rest of TOS and their 5 year mission. So two years more with Scotty, Uhura, Chapel, Bones, Kirk and Spock and whoever else wants to stick around (to have come back ‘after three years away’) and whoever they want to add (Chekov, Sulu, Yeoman Rand, etc).

I think the only cannon characters who we know did the full 5 years together are Scotty, Sulu, Bones, Kirk, Uhura and Spock, our ‘film crew’, (not Chekov necessarily as he might have been there the whole time or not, ‘Wrath of Khan’ being confusing on this point) so there is leeway to gain or lose the others. I mean, that would be the dream, for those original fans who are still mad that TOS got cancelled back in the day (i.e. my mother, yes it’s personal!).

Come on, those fans are all in their 60s, 70s and 80s now, it would be so cool to give them those two years back.

Anyway, I can live with the cliffhanger. We know Batel goes out at some point, as we already know that she’s not who Pike ends up with. And as a half-Scot, I can’t tell you how happy I am to have a version of Scotty who is Scottish, finally. No more long diatribes on exactly which parts of the accent, slang, etc are wrong. Bonus!

We've already had TOS.  I want to keep the SNW crew around for as many seasons as they can stretch it out to.  A single season doesn't have to take a year of Starfleet time. 

Much as I loved TOS, I want to keep Ortegas and Pike and Una around and not have them replaced.   Bringing Kirk in for so much of S2 was bad enough and felt like TPTB didn't have enough confidence that the show could stand alone without his presence.  (I did have similar feelings about Pike/Spock/Una showing up on Discovery and almost didn't watch SNW because of it)

 

As for this episode, I HATE CLIFFHANGERS!

I was also rather concerned that after we were finally going to get Ortegas on an away mission that she wouldn't survive it.  (I was that concerned that when the episode dropped, I actually scrolled to the end just to make sure she'd be okay...or at least not dead!)

I do think I'm going to have to rewatch Subspace Rhapsody again just to soothe my nerves after this ep.  (and then maybe a full series rewatch to fill in the gap until next season)

[starri]

I have to give props for the casting of Martin Quinn as Scotty.  For one thing, he's actually from Scotland for a change.  But an even bigger deal, I look at him and can definitely see him aging into being James Doohan.

[Jodithgrace]

A couple of questions: How do these lizard creatures build and fly ships? They act like mindless horror movie monsters, but obviously they have intelligence and come from a culture that is advanced enough for space travel  It’s hard for me to reconcile the two things.

Also, why is it when a villain is about to do something fatal, such as pulling off Spock’s face mask, they always pause dramatically, just long enough to be foiled?  It’s a trope I find irritating. Not that I wanted Spock to be killed, you understand. 
 

I hate and despise season ending cliff hangers. Especially now with the writers’ strike seeming to be never ending. 
 

It was fun meeting Scotty. I wonder if we are going to end up meeting all of the TOS regulars by the end of the series. They are all alive and active…somewhere. 

.

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

We've already had TOS.  I want to keep the SNW crew around for as many seasons as they can stretch it out to.  A single season doesn't have to take a year of Starfleet time. 

 

Agreed. As much as I love these characters and who they will come to be, I really don't need a TOS reboot. I've already watched that show when I was young.  I'm gearing up to rewatch the show as an adult with my modern sensibilities... 

[Panopticon]

I think TNG had one of the greatest cliffhangers in the history of television with the Enterprise firing on Picard/Locutus. My middle school self could hardly stand to wait ALL SUMMER.

But it's different with ten-episode-per-season streaming shows that may go years between seasons. Anticipation isn't as fun when the buildup is short and there's no firm date for a resolution. It feels kind of cheap.

That said, nice to see Scotty. The Christine-related suspense was as good as it could possibly be with the constraints of a prequel. And Anson Mount remains awesome.

 

[marinw]

Scotty! I've struggled to accept the SNW Chapel, Spock and Uhura not because the actors playing them aren't engaging and likeable, but because they simply aren't the same people. Yet this Scotty I can accept right off the bat, he is exactly the smart, resourceful Scotty we all know and love.

Oh those poor colony planets just trying to be the US Midwest or Scotland. I did like the classic Mainstreet with the little car-things going back and forth.

That was tense and good, but it could be literally YEARS until we see what happens thanks to the Writer's and Actor's Strike! It was only three months between Best of Both worlds Parts One and Two.

As for bringing back more TOS Characters, if M'Benga ever leaves (Maybe his past catches up to him) I almost hope we get Boyce rather than McCoy, as Boyce is  just an older white guy we don't know much about, a blank slate for the actor hired to play him.

Edited August 11, 2023 by marinw

[marinw]

3 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

A couple of questions: How do these lizard creatures build and fly ships? They act like mindless horror movie monsters, but obviously they have intelligence and come from a culture that is advanced enough for space travel  It’s hard for me to reconcile the two things.

They also have very cool spacesuits.

[historylover820]

I'll come back and read your responses above after I post. But, wanted to get some quick thoughts down.

I... wasn't all that crazy about this episode.

1. I don't know what the "To Be Continued" is trying to accomplish. Here's the problem with prequels: you know what's going to happen to some characters, so some tension goes out of it. Of course M'Benga and Sam survive this. How do I know? They appear at least once in TOS. I know she wasn't in the "To Be Continued, and her thing was before this, but I wasn't worried about Chapel. Why? She's in TOS. Clear up to The Voyage Home, in fact. Now, granted, La'an and Ortegas aren't in TOS, so who knows their fates right now. 

2. We did Alien last year, so we're doing Aliens 3 this year?

3. Nice to see you, Montgomery Scott. Please replace Pelia soon on the Enterprise, because, interestingly, the accent that Carol Kane has used all season is like fingernails on a chalk board to me. And since he's on the Enterprise, let's get him going as Chief Engineer!

4. So, Scotty, Uhura, and Spock have seen Gorn. Scotty even managed to rig up a trap. Spock killed a Gorn. Why were they strangely silent in Arena? I know Kirk wasn't going to listen to anybody, but they could have at least tried. (Again, the problem with prequels)

5. So, when are we getting Sulu and McCoy to make an appearance? (Chekhov is just an ensign in season 2 of TOS, so he would probably be a teenager in Russia at this point. Although I love the idea that Walter Koenig had as to why Khan remembers him in WoK. Chekhov kept Khan waiting for a bathroom, and when Chekhov came out, he told Khan that it was broken and go somewhere else. Khan swore that he would never forget him.)

6. Batel's so much of a goner that they are going to come up with some miracle to save her, if and when we ever get a third season premiere.

Edited August 11, 2023 by historylover820
Thought of something

[historylover820]

21 minutes ago, marinw said:

As for bringing back more TOS Characters, if M'Benga ever leaves (Maybe his past catches up to him) I almost hope we get Boyce rather than McCoy, as Boyce is  just an older white guy we don't know much about, a blank slate for the actor hired to play him.

They should at least drop a line about Boyce. But, he's in the events of The Cage, which is in the past in SNW's events (as in, it's already happened). So, since he's not the CMO during SNW, he's not going to be in the future.

[Quickbeam]

I’m lazy on canon but is this the introduction of phaser rifles? 
 

Good accent on young Montgomery. My people are off the boat Scots and I understood every word! 

*edited to add that without Anson Mount I would not be watching. 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Quickbeam
Addition

[marinw]

8 minutes ago, historylover820 said:

They should at least drop a line about Boyce. But, he's in the events of The Cage, which is in the past in SNW's events (as in, it's already happened). So, since he's not the CMO during SNW, he's not going to be in the future.

Was Boyce in Where No Man Has Gone Before? The SNW showrunners seem to have forgotten about the second TOS Pilot. The uniforms have already changed over to the TOS era.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Now that we've met Scotty, its only Bones, Sulu and Chekov left on the "yet to meet of the main TOS 'command' crew" - right?

(had a whole lot more posted, but screwed up and not gonna re-type it - so, the highlights)

-  TBC sucked, thanks to not knowing when S3 will happen, due to the strike

-  Initial guess is that Batel's Gorn eggs important to the Gorn, Pike trades her to them for his captured crew back

-  Sam will survive because of canon, but his death could have been used for JTK angst purposes

-  Hope that when it comes back, no more 'schlocky' episodes;  IE the fairy tale reenactments, musicals, et al

Edited August 11, 2023 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[QuantumMechanic]

Shakes fist at showrunners for leaving us with that for 18 months? 24 months?.

Also, I (like many here) called the Batel plotline last week and what happened to her within the episode as well.

Still too derivative of Aliens for my taste, including their own Ripley and xenomorph face to face shot.

While the stuff in the saucer of the wrecked ship was kinda cool, a bunch of the tension was drained away (for me anyways) by knowing that both characters were protected by canon armor.  Also, WTF with not attempting to see if there were other survivors.  If Chapel survived it's likely quite a few others did.  Oh well, Starfleet crew fricassee!

Not sure what to think about meeting Montgomery Scott. A bit too gratuitious fan service for me. Though amusing.

All that said, still a pretty good episode.

13 hours ago, tallykat said:

And it wouldn't be so bad if it were a regular "back-in-the-day" To be continued... where we only had to wait from May to September to find out who makes it and who doesn't. But instead, it will likely be over a year and we will have to watch this episode all over again because we will have forgotten all the little details.

With the strikes don't be surprised if it's two years. 😢

Edited August 11, 2023 by QuantumMechanic
because one must italicize titles

[QuantumMechanic]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

So a bunch of Gorns caught a virus that made them walk upright very slowly and reconfigured their entire reproductive process - eliminating the need to kidnap alien hosts....

If a virus (or whatever it was) could happen to the Klingons...

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

They act like mindless horror movie monsters, but obviously they have intelligence and come from a culture that is advanced enough for space travel  It’s hard for me to reconcile the two things.

The mindless horror movie monsters on the planet are their children. The one trying to hack the Cayoga’s computer is an example of the intelligence of the species. 

[statsgirl]

Am understanding correctly that the Cayuga was circling a neutral planet, the Gorn arrived, blew up the Cayuga, send the Federation an arbitrary map telling them to stay on their side Or Else, and the Federation says "Sure, fine" and orders Pike to abandon anyone left alive?

No wonder the Gorn think that they can walk all over the Federation.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I'm not going to worry too much about the human captives on the Gorn ship. They have the Butcher of J'Gal among them. 

And the premiere established he never goes anywhere without Protocol 12. 

46 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Am understanding correctly that the Cayuga was circling a neutral planet, the Gorn arrived, blew up the Cayuga, send the Federation an arbitrary map telling them to stay on their side Or Else, and the Federation says "Sure, fine" and orders Pike to abandon anyone left alive?

I don’t think it is that simple. The Enterprise was alone and outside of Federation space. Telling them to not engage isn’t they same as abandoning anyone left alive. 

It was bad writing to not include more instructions from Starfleet or a mention of reinforcements but it’s unlikely Starfleet was planning on just having the Enterprise hang out there indefinitely. 

[Prevailing Wind]

4 hours ago, historylover820 said:

4. So, Scotty, Uhura, and Spock have seen Gorn. Scotty even managed to rig up a trap. Spock killed a Gorn. Why were they strangely silent in Arena? I know Kirk wasn't going to listen to anybody, but they could have at least tried. (Again, the problem with prequels)

Perhaps there are two different species called "Gorn."  Here on earth, we have a possum in Australia and an opossum in the US, familiarly called "possum," as well. The English badger and the American badger look not so much alike. The red fruit of the prickly pear cactus is called a tuna and is nothing like the fish.

Who's to say both these Gorn may have other names, but both co-exist on the planet Gorn?

[thuganomics85]

As soon as I heard that Scottish brogue, I knew it was our Montgomery Scott!  Great to see him onboard and I'm already digging this take on the character.  Not familiar with the actor (judging from IMDB, he's a relative unknown), but not only did he do a great job with everything, I agree that he actually looks like he could be a young James Doohan.  Hope we get plenty more of him in future seasons!

So, instead of time-traveling craziness like last season's finale, this one just decides to go old-school alien invasion on us with the return of the Gorn.  I still enjoy the horror/Alien like presence they bring to things and they generally look great, but there are still a lot of questions and inconsistencies I have with them in general, and I kind of doubt they will ever be fully addressed.  And, yes, the Gorn that Kirk fought way back the original series must have been at retirement age...

While I'm glad Chapel is alive and everything, she really did have the plot armor to end all plot armor here.  I can just picture the rest of the crew's final words being "I wish I was in the main credits!!!!"

Things aren't looking the best for Batel right now, but since they didn't actually off her yet, I think there could be a chance she'll make it.  Either way, I'm guessing having her onboard while infected will play a part in them finding a way to really get the upper hand on the Gorn/find a weakness to use against them.

La'an really has the worst luck in finales, since she's once again separated from the majority of the main crew.  At least she has M'Benga and George to be fellow prisoners with!  Of the three, George is the one who should probably watch his ass due to being only a guest here.  I'm guessing his capture will lead to Kirk having a significant role in the premiere.

Overall, I thought this season has a whole wasn't quite a strong as the first one, but despite its flaws, I still think it's by far the best out of the NuTrek.  Even when it doesn't work, I feel like it's the only that "gets" what fans like about Trek and strive to accomplish it, even if the execution doesn't always work.  And, as a whole, the ensemble might one the strongest out of the Treks, with Anson Mount continuing to make Pike one of my favorites ever (probably even in the top five for me.)  I'm glad it's been renewed at least, but I just hope the wait won't be too long due to the ongoing issues with the strikes and whatnot.  Obviously, that is still more important but I can't wait for the next season!

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

La'an really has the worst luck in finales, since she's once again separated from the majority of the main crew.  At least she has M'Benga and George to be fellow prisoners with!  Of the three, George is the one who should probably watch his ass due to being only a guest here.  I'm guessing his capture will lead to Kirk having a significant role in the premiere.

 

 

Hello, Ortegas was there as well. I know the writers seem to forget about her, but come on she finally gets an away mission and this happens!

If she makes it back to the Enterprise, and I really hope she does, I can see her swearing off away missions for good!

That said, if TPTB, do feel the need for a main crew casualty, it’s probably going to be between her and La’an.

 

 

[Zaffy]

The problem with the short seasons, is that you can't really build anything. They are trying to shove down our throats the relationships, the friendships..and we are supposed to care..
Pike hugged Chapel when she came back to Enterprise and to me it didn't feel earned/justified. Like him and M'Benga that are supposed to be best friends.
Actually the only relationship they built a bit, was M'Benga and Chapel.

And the cliffhanger is a joke.
Are we supposed to get worried if Batel, Laan or Ortegas make it?
Sorry, but I won't miss any of them. I bet someone else can replace Ortegas just to say her dumb one-liners. But mostly because we know that one way or another they are goners. And  keep adding TOS personnel, makes the new characters even more expendables and the Writer's insecurity and weakness too obvious.

p.s. The wonderful actress playing Ortegas must have nerves of steel to play all the dumb things they ask her, like her being cheerful for her first away mission  about a full colony being brutally exterminated. 

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

p.s. The wonderful actress playing Ortegas must have nerves of steel to play all the dumb things they ask her, like her being cheerful for her first away mission  about a full colony being brutally exterminated. 

Seeing as how the actor is reading off a script and a bunch of people didn't actually die in real life, I don't think I'd chalk that up to her iron will so much as doing the job she's paid to do.  In-universe, Ortegas seems like the type who uses humor as a coping mechanism to deflect from the gravity of the situation.

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

No wonder the Gorn think that they can walk all over the Federation.

This is pretty consistent with how the Federation reacts in general - see all of the crap the Romulans have pulled without the situation ever escalating beyond a cold war. 

[tv-talk]

10 hours ago, Dani said:

The mindless horror movie monsters on the planet are their children. The one trying to hack the Cayoga’s computer is an example of the intelligence of the species. 

Maybe but it's going to turn out that flashing bright lights makes them leave or go to sleep or whatever, like they are barely more than moths that fly towards the light. I find it a little cheap that the writers go for the Aliens meets Jurassic Park theme and we're supposed to accept that onboard their ship there's some semblance of a normal crew executing complex tasks etc while the babies eat each other. 

3 hours ago, Zaffy said:

Pike hugged Chapel when she came back to Enterprise and to me it didn't feel earned/justified. Like him and M'Benga that are supposed to be best friends.
Actually the only relationship they built a bit, was M'Benga and Chapel.

Yeah that was way more than Spock and Chapel did when reuniting, and yes in the 1st ep when she and M'Benga jetted into space they definitely had a moment, I actually thought they might end up romantically linked.

[tv-talk]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Overall, I thought this season has a whole wasn't quite a strong as the first one, but despite its flaws, I still think it's by far the best out of the NuTrek.

Are TNG and DS9 NuTrek? What I loved aboutS1 of SNW was it felt so much like TOS or at least had the same spirit. This season was pretty good looking back over the episodes, but there really is only so much you can do with 10 episodes and they spent too much time Spock/Chapel relationship for my liking.