S03.E10: Part Ten - The Last Generation

[Prevailing Wind]

The one thing I never understood about Spot: He was a he in every episode except the one where he had kittens and then turned into an iguana. How the hell does THAT happen? (Kittens, not the iguana part.)

[greekmom]

One would hope that if they decide to make this new enterprise into a series they would recast Jack. 

[Gregg247]

I thought this was a pretty good episode and did it's best to 'fix" all the problems that were created in E9. So, Starfleet really IS the "next generation" since very few people in it are over 25 years old, but at least a few like Tuvok and 7 managed to survive.

Was this the Borg Queen from "Star Trek: First Contact"?  She and part of her Borg crew survived that encounter but were left in the 21st century, where they've been hiding out in the storm center of Jupiter all this time?  I can accept that.  Her need for revenge must have been monumental!

Counselor Troi worker harder in this show than she ever did on TNG.  Suddenly, everyone wants to talk about their "feelings" - especially the Klingon and the android! haha

What happened to the Enterprise F?  I've been flying that ship in Star Trek Online for years and it finally makes it onto the show (at it's launching, no less!).  Then everyone turns into a Borg, there's a big fight, and a year later, the Titan is now the Enterprise G.  Where's the F?  They can't have 2 Enterprises out there at the same time, can they?

I like the idea of a spin-off with 7 and Jack, but could we lose Raffi?  She's terrible.  I miss Captain Shaw - he was awesome!

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

The one thing I never understood about Spot: He was a he in every episode except the one where he had kittens and then turned into an iguana. How the hell does THAT happen? (Kittens, not the iguana part.)

Data not so good at sex identification

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

Was this the Borg Queen from "Star Trek: First Contact"?  She and part of her Borg crew survived that encounter but were left in the 21st century, where they've been hiding out in the storm center of Jupiter all this time?  I can accept that.  Her need for revenge must have been monumental!

The Borg Queen in First Contact was killed. Enterprise had a story in which some drones survived and somehow Picard and company missed them. I find it best to decanonize that story because it makes the D's crew look incompetent and it also makes the Borg look incompetent. since they should be able to easily assimilate pre-Federation Alpha Quadrant. And it makes the Federation incompetent as well, because they did not learn of the Borg in that time period, nor the anti=assimilation measures that Phlox employed.

[Prevailing Wind]

I liked Phlox. I know he's out of the time frame for this series, but I wish we could've seen him.

[Francie]

20 hours ago, Starchild said:

By the way, why "Legacy" as a series identifier?

Because it sounds cooler than Star Trek: Nepo Babies

In slight seriousness, I think TM wants to feature Jack Picard-Crusher, and he'll throw in one or two of Geordie's daughter as part of the supporting cast.*  Somehow, because they're offspring of TNG characters, they are legacies, I suppose. 

*TM better not touch Kestra Troi-Riker. I don't want his glib tongue, lack of imagination, or touchy disposition anywhere near her. 

11 hours ago, Prevailing Wind said:

The one thing I never understood about Spot: He was a he in every episode except the one where he had kittens and then turned into an iguana. How the hell does THAT happen? (Kittens, not the iguana part.)

Spot's a trans male?

It's either that or Data's had 3+ cats named Spot and each doesn't live very long. Worf may seem the obvious candidate for Spots' short lives, but don't sleep on Riker as the culprit. 

3 hours ago, greekmom said:

One would hope that if they decide to make this new enterprise into a series they would recast Jack. 

Regardless what the future holds, I will always think of this season/series as Star Trek: Just Jack. 

I don't even want to think about another series featuring either that actor or character. Thankfully, my flirtation with Paramount+ is nearly done, and I don't know that any new offerings will even make my radar. 

For those of you who watch Marvelous Mrs. Maisel or Succession, I'll see you on those boards!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Cute that they didn't let us hear Seven's catchphrase. It likely would've been a letdown anyway, like what happened on ST: Discovery.

Nice finale. I think that was probably the best end for ST: Picard, to have him settled back in with the old gang. But oh well, Laris.

Q again? Meh. I'll watch a spinoff series but I could do with him.

[Starchild]

12 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Was there any indication last yr or this yr if Seven even went to the academy or was she just leap frogged into command because Picard and presumably Janeway said so?  I know she mentioned she tried one time but was rejected because she was Borg. 

Presumably the Academy's purpose is to help people meet Starfleet entrance requirements. If she can do that without attending the Academy, which I'm sure she could, then why not?

Could you pass the bar and become a lawyer without ever attending law school? Perry Mason did, apparently lol

3 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

So, Starfleet really IS the "next generation" since very few people in it are over 25 years old

OMG you're right, they're going to call it ST: Legacy but really it will be ST: The CW.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Starchild

[paigow]

25 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Could you pass the bar and become a lawyer without ever attending law school? Perry Mason did, apparently lol

Knowing the questions well ahead of time is a great life-hack...

[Chicago Redshirt]

32 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Presumably the Academy's purpose is to help people meet Starfleet entrance requirements. If she can do that without attending the Academy, which I'm sure she could, then why not?

Could you pass the bar and become a lawyer without ever attending law school? Perry Mason did, apparently lol

In real life in several states, you do not have to have attended law school to become a lawyer, only pass that state's bar. 

[Francie]

16 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In real life in several states, you do not have to have attended law school to become a lawyer, only pass that state's bar. 

Hold on now, I feel a need to defend my profession. A state bar exam is not like a DMV test, where one can just sign up to take the bar exam. 

There's only, I think, 4 states that allow an alternative route to that of law school. California's one of them, and the process is quite onerous -- and lengthy. There's a multi-year apprenticeship process, along with having to pass the "Baby Bar" at the end of the first year I think it is. Virtually no one goes this route, because the Baby Bar is designed to be an obstacle. And the apprenticeship process can be even more time-consuming than going to law school. 

Frankly, if one has the money, can get a scholarship, or is willing to take on the loans, going the traditional route is likely the easier route of the two. 

And P.S. Jack still sucks. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Francie

[ch1]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

Because it sounds cooler than Star Trek: Nepo Babies

In slight seriousness, I think TM wants to feature Jack Picard-Crusher, and he'll throw in one or two of Geordie's daughter as part of the supporting cast.*  Somehow, because they're offspring of TNG characters, they are legacies, I suppose. 

*TM better not touch Kestra Troi-Riker. I don't want his glib tongue, lack of imagination, or touchy disposition anywhere near her. 

Spot's a trans male?

It's either that or Data's had 3+ cats named Spot and each doesn't live very long. Worf may seem the obvious candidate for Spots' short lives, but don't sleep on Riker as the culprit. 

Regardless what the future holds, I will always think of this season/series as Star Trek: Just Jack. 

I don't even want to think about another series featuring either that actor or character. Thankfully, my flirtation with Paramount+ is nearly done, and I don't know that any new offerings will even make my radar. 

For those of you who watch Marvelous Mrs. Maisel or Succession, I'll see you on those boards!

How do you focus on character legacies and ignore Alexander and Wesley?  It’s disappointing that the writers didn’t seem to care enough to include them - they are actual children of TNG characters that we actually got to see on screen for years.  

 

[paigow]

8 minutes ago, ch1 said:

How do you focus on character legacies and ignore Alexander and Wesley?  It’s disappointing that the writers didn’t seem to care enough to include them - they are actual children of TNG characters that we actually got to see on screen for years.  

 

Alexander was so messed up he had to use his future self to save his TNG  self.

Wesley has evolved into Dr. Strange

[j5cochran]

18 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Was there any indication last yr or this yr if Seven even went to the academy or was she just leap frogged into command because Picard and presumably Janeway said so?  I know she mentioned she tried one time but was rejected because she was Borg. 

I suspect that Seven went to the Star Fleet equivalent of Officer Candidate School. In the current US Navy, it's a 13-week program for those with prior enlisted experience in the Navy. Seven's experience on Voyager, as well as her work with the Fenris Rangers, counted as that prior experience.

 

[Zaffy]

10 hours ago, greekmom said:

One would hope that if they decide to make this new enterprise into a series they would recast Jack. 

I guess they have to, the actor is 10y older than his character's age and it will be more and more visible as seasons go by..
Although what bothers me is his annoying persona..

[dovegrey]

1 hour ago, j5cochran said:

I suspect that Seven went to the Star Fleet equivalent of Officer Candidate School. In the current US Navy, it's a 13-week program for those with prior enlisted experience in the Navy. Seven's experience on Voyager, as well as her work with the Fenris Rangers, counted as that prior experience.

That's more or less how I've been handwaving it. Seven was incredibly experienced on Voyager, created the astrometrics lab, knew the ship inside and out, advised Janeway, and literally ran the ship singlehandedly for a month when the entire crew had to go into stasis. By the end, she had essentially become part of the senior command crew, IIRC. My biggest issue with her on Picard is that they established Starfleet didn't want anything to do with her (which was just dumb writing - but I've also wondered if she actually completed the Academy after Voyager, but Starfleet didn't want her on a ship after that...I think Voyager!Seven would have struggled), so this is putting Seven where she should have been all along, IMO, especially considering how far she's come in terms of being human/personable/etc. And there's not a whole lot of experienced people left to command ships after what just happened.

Ensign Jack is absolutely ridiculous, though. Dude with a long criminal record who willingly got assimilated and then assimilated/killed your entire fleet completes the Academy in a year and gets assigned to a special position on the flagship? Okay.

[paigow]

7 hours ago, Francie said:

A state bar exam is not like a DMV test, where one can just sign up to take the bar exam. 

Starfleet did not care when the JAG appointed Picard & Riker as opposing advocates for Data vs Maddox... maybe the rules have tightened since then...

[Francie]

3 hours ago, j5cochran said:

I suspect that Seven went to the Star Fleet equivalent of Officer Candidate School. In the current US Navy, it's a 13-week program for those with prior enlisted experience in the Navy. Seven's experience on Voyager, as well as her work with the Fenris Rangers, counted as that prior experience.

 

Yeah, but isn't that a program that just gets an officer to the lowest level (ensign). It's not 13 weeks, and then one is made captain. 

Having said that, I have no problems with Seven being a captain. I mean, nearly everyone over 25 is dead. Seven's probably the most qualified. Sadly, though, the cook may be the second most qualified. 

2 hours ago, Zaffy said:

I guess they have to, the actor is 10y older than his character's age and it will be more and more visible as seasons go by..
Although what bothers me is his annoying persona..

If there ever is a new show featuring Just Jack, they'll probably apply the soap opera staple, SORASing (soap opera rapidly aging syndrome), and age him up to 36. We'll never again hear how he's only in his 20s. 

37 minutes ago, paigow said:

Starfleet did not care when the JAG appointed Picard & Riker as opposing advocates for Data vs Maddox... maybe the rules have tightened since then...

Check and mated, I suppose.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Francie

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Ensign Jack is absolutely ridiculous, though. Dude with a long criminal record who willingly got assimilated and then assimilated/killed your entire fleet completes the Academy in a year and gets assigned to a special position on the flagship? Okay.

I'm not convinced that this version of the Enterprise is Starfleet's flagship. 

[Prevailing Wind]

10 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Ensign Jack is absolutely ridiculous, though. Dude with a long criminal record who willingly got assimilated and then assimilated/killed your entire fleet completes the Academy in a year and gets assigned to a special position on the flagship? Okay.

Tuvok mind-melded all the learning necessary to graduate from the Academy. Jack knows it all, y'know.

[baldryanr]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:07 PM, rtms77 said:

Special counselor ensign Jack Crusher? This whole accelerated promotion thing with Starfleet is stretching creditably. It’s like Malalas did no homework on how military or navy command structure works and just pulled said position out of thin air

It's a family tradition.  Making a scientifically gifted teenager an acting ensign and helmsman, promoting said teenager to actual ensign, and then shipping him off to Starfleet academy so he can be... an ensign also makes no sense.

[Chit Chat]

Has anybody else watched the latest episode of The Ready Room?  We've been trying to get it since Saturday, but it just won't download.  We can get anything else on Paramount+, so it's not them.  

Edited April 24, 2023 by Chit Chat

[jah1986]

It took five days for the previous episode of the Ready Room to become available. I think it's something wrong with Paramount+. I really have been enjoying Wil Wheaton's chats with the cast and crew.

[Good Queen Jane]

2 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Has anybody else watched the latest episode of The Ready Room?  We've been trying to it since Saturday, but it just won't download.  We can get anything else on Paramount+, so it's not them. 

I've had the same problem. Glad to know it isn't just me.

[chaifan]

3 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Has anybody else watched the latest episode of The Ready Room?  We've been trying to it since Saturday, but it just won't download.  We can get anything else on Paramount+, so it's not them.  

I watched it last night, so it's up.  But, at least on my screen, the RR episodes are not put in order.  Look for the one with the picture of TM and Jeri Ryan.

I still would love to know WW's real feelings on this season, particularly Jack.  I think this forum is a decent representation of Star Trek viewers - ranging from lifelong fanatics to more casual viewers, and no one here likes him, his story line, his back story, etc.  WW was over the top about Jack in his interviews with the cast, but is that his real opinion, or his opinion as the paid host of the Ready Room?

[Chit Chat]

24 minutes ago, chaifan said:

WW was over the top about Jack in his interviews with the cast, but is that his real opinion, or his opinion as the paid host of the Ready Room?

As much as I like Wil, sometimes he's more enthusiastic about a character, storyline, etc. than I am!  He seems genuine in his excietment though! 

26 minutes ago, chaifan said:

..and no one here likes him, his story line, his back story, etc. 

For me it's because he was introduced so late into the series.  It takes time to get to know these characters, and his storyline was too abrupt for a series finale.  I didn't like it that Beverly had basically ignored everyone for what, 20 years?  The best thing about this season was seeing Worf again.  

[Prevailing Wind]

Slightly off-topic... I was napping. The woman next door got a delivery and the delivery person knocked on her door (we share a porch in our condo complex). I must've heard the knock while I was dreaming, because, all of a sudden, there was Worf with his Bat'leth yelling at me, "DOOR!"  Apparently, Worf is now my spirit guide.

[paigow]

50 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I must've heard the knock while I was dreaming, because, all of a sudden, there was Worf with his Bat'leth yelling at me, "DOOR!"  Apparently, Worf is now my spirit guide.

Bro, Stop eating Peptide Cake before nap time....

[Prevailing Wind]

55 minutes ago, paigow said:

Bro, Stop eating Peptide Cake before nap time....

But it had mint frosting!  (I'm a sis, not a bro. LOL)

 

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

But it had mint frosting!  (I'm a sis, not a bro. LOL)

 

Sorry. I try to avoid stalker type actions. Unless your avatar or name strongly indicates female, I default you to male.

[paigow]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:51 AM, greekmom said:

One would hope that if they decide to make this new enterprise into a series they would recast Jack. 

Recreate the transporter accident that turned Picard and the others into pre-teens. 

[Prevailing Wind]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Recreate the transporter accident that turned Picard and the others into pre-teens. 

That's one of my 3 favorite TNG episodes, the other two being "Darmok" and the one where Picard lives another lifetime in 25 minutes.

[tkc]

Apparently nostalgia covers a multitude of writing sins, because on the whole, I am glad this season of Picard exists.

Lots of callbacks, loved them all. I don’t think Patrick Stewart knows how to deal cards, though!

Glad to see that Tuvok survived. (I’ve had this theory for a long time that he is a twin, and his sibling is named One-Vok. The changeling could have been Threevok!)

Also, I don’t mind the occasional fourth wall breaking, but I think it’s bad form for the showrunner to invoke his own name — I realize M’talas Prime already exists in canon, but if you’re going to tip your hat to someone in a Star Trek series finale, why not Gene Roddenberry, the Great Bird of the Galaxy himself?

Edited April 25, 2023 by tkc

[Francie]

As much as I want to put this show in the rear view mirror already, in the spirit of “I tell  my wrath, my wrath doth end,” I still can’t believe two things:

That Beverly Crusher named a kid she had with Jean-Luc after her dead husband; and

That Riker’s final, he thinks he's dying words were about his dead son and not his living daughter. That he was all “me and our boy will be waiting for you,” instead of “tell Kestra I love her” just galls me to no end. And that gets me to thinking, Riker didn’t stay in the borg cube to save humanity. He stayed to go find his geriatric former captain. His 82-fucking-year-old captain. I get the sentiment of a mentee or subordinate feeling like they owe something to their mentor or superior. But, good writing, I argue, would have the characters recognize the cost. Riker was opting for near certain death (or Worf was just joking – one can never tell with this show) to try to save an 82-year-old man versus living so as to not make his wife – who’s already suffered in losing a son – a widow and his minor-aged daughter – who already lost a beloved brother – fatherless. And that’s where I think, f** you, Riker. And I like Riker. So I especially hate the position in which I find myself. 

But we’re not supposed to take this show that seriously, show runners certainly would advise. And I get that. But the corollary is then true – I can’t take it seriously at all. And that’s why I condemn it as an expensively produced but cheap, superficial, glib piece of disposable nostalgia triggers. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Francie

[ML89]

I'd much rather Shaw lived than Jack Crusher, who could have been excised from this rerun of Return of the Jedi. I would watch a series with Seven, Raffi and Crash but Jack is a deal breaker. 

45 minutes ago, Francie said:

But we’re not supposed to take this show that seriously, show runners certainly would advise. And I get that. But the corollary is then true – I can’t take it seriously at all. And that’s why I condemn it as an expensively produced but cheap, superficial, glib piece of disposable nostalgia triggers. 

You make some excellent points there about Riker - and interestingly, Troi was the voice of reason....the empath whose husband is over there. When no one should have gone over there.

I agree on your wrath and add that mine is the plot is a mess - so there's one Borg cube hanging out on Jupiter and no one noticed? How did the Changelings find out and how did they come up with this scheme? How did they all not triple cross each other? 

Why did Starfleet agree to link the whole fleet up? Is there no Captain Kirk to ask the equivalent "why does God need a starship?" in all of the fleet? Also...now that I think of it, why DIDN'T Shaw and Seven know about this? Shouldn't there have been eleventy billion meetings in Galactic Microsoft TEAMS? Or did they mention it and it got buried in all the histrionics from Vadic. There should have been discussions about not going, or going after they were shielded - and not a cloak either! How the hell does this thing work, again?

 

[FloatOn]

5 hours ago, Francie said:

That Beverly Crusher named a kid she had with Jean-Luc after her dead husband; and

That Riker’s final, he thinks he's dying words were about his dead son and not his living daughter. That he was all “me and our boy will be waiting for you,” instead of “tell Kestra I love her” just galls me to no end. And that gets me to thinking, Riker didn’t stay in the borg cube to save humanity. He stayed to go find his geriatric former captain. His 82-fucking-year-old captain. I get the sentiment of a mentee or subordinate feeling like they owe something to their mentor or superior. But, good writing, I argue, would have the characters recognize the cost. Riker was opting for near certain death (or Worf was just joking – one can never tell with this show) to try to save an 82-year-old man versus living so as to not make his wife – who’s already suffered in losing a son – a widow and his minor-aged daughter – who already lost a beloved brother – fatherless. And that’s where I think, f** you, Riker. And I like Riker. So I especially hate the position in which I find myself. 

Both of these still bother me as well. They even has Picard say he would have named Jack after the dead husband. Why?

People on twitter and elsewhere have been pointing out that they mentioned Kestra, either by name or just as Riker and Deanna's daughter, more than I thought (I honestly thought it was just like twice). However, it's still just so ridiculous that they couldn't manage to throw in one line somewhere in the last episode about her or that her parents were thinking about her. Just bad writing.

As for Legacy, since Levar Burton, Gates McFadden, Jonathan Frakes, and Marina Sirtis are the loudest ones hyping the spinoff and/or wanting to do more Trek, I assume the show will be Seven and Raffi along with Jack, Sidney, Kestra  as the ensign, and then some newbies if/when it happens. That way it's the "new generation" and they can still shove their parents on the show for cameos.

[marinw]

So if Raffi is Seven’s first officer I wonder where that leaves their relationship. I’m going with “It’s complicated”. We established back in “Lessons” that a captain can have a romantic relationship with a member of thier crew.

[Francie]

46 minutes ago, FloatOn said:

As for Legacy, since Levar Burton, Gates McFadden, Jonathan Frakes, and Marina Sirtis are the loudest ones hyping the spinoff and/or wanting to do more Trek, I assume the show will be Seven and Raffi along with Jack, Sidney, Kestra  as the ensign, and then some newbies if/when it happens. That way it's the "new generation" and they can still shove their parents on the show for cameos.

If Matalas gets his legacy show, based on his interviews and which characters he mentions the most, it'll primarily focus on Jack and Seven, with Shaw (Matalas says he has a brilliant way to bring him back that isn't a cheat), and Raffi as the two primary supports. Then, to round out the cast, he'd add Sidney. After that, he wants Frakes. After that he seems to want Levar, Dorn, and Beverly to crop up in cameos. Presumably Jean-Luc, Data, and Troi would be welcome as well as memberberries. But whenever they're mentioned, if they ae mentioned, they come across as afterthoughts. 

You've seen Marina Sirtis pimping this show? That surprises me. I haven't seen her at all of late. She was part of the New York press event that the entire OG7 were part of back before the premiere, and then she went on the Star Trek cruise last month, but other than that she's largely been MIA. And she acknowledged on the cruise that she wasn't thrilled about the sit-at-home, nagging housewife stuff they wrote of her. But she's done no press I know of. No social media. And that can be because she's in London and deleted her twitter account. 

The PicardS3 cast members who've been promoting (I'll be nice) the show the most have been Frakes, Ryan, and the actor who plays Shaw. Gates has been slightly engaged. Maybe Burton too. But the rest -- Spiner, Dorn, Stewart, and Sirtis -- have quiet on social media. Stewart did two late night appearances that bookended the season, but he posted only once on social media, right at the premiere. And that was just to say that the cast was an ensemble. I've found their silence interesting. Spiner claims that his twitter account was hacked and that he'd not be on twitter awhile. 

[FloatOn]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

You've seen Marina Sirtis pimping this show? That surprises me. I haven't seen her at all of late. She was part of the New York press event that the entire OG7 were part of back before the premiere, and then she went on the Star Trek cruise last month, but other than that she's largely been MIA. And she acknowledged on the cruise that she wasn't thrilled about the sit-at-home, nagging housewife stuff they wrote of her. But she's done no press I know of. No social media. And that can be because she's in London and deleted her twitter account. 

No, but someone elsewhere posted a clip of her on the cruise saying for everyone to watch the show so that Paramount would be encouraged to make more so they can come back and do some more Trek stuff with the TNG cast. I thought when the stuff came out from the cruise she was mad about the whole story. But seeing the clips in a better context once longer ones popped up, it was right after that stupid flashback episode aired and she was mad about that one. I'm not sure she was talking about the whole season since she apparently loved the Riker and Deanna stuff. There's also at least two articles that got posted which had her talking about how she would love to do more and to keep the heat on Paramount. So I think she'd be down for it it seems, even if she hasn't said anything about Legacy itself.

Here's one of them, it's from between the NY press event and the premiere-

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-deanna-troi-actor-more-tng-spinoffs/

[starri]

21 minutes ago, Francie said:

But the rest -- Spiner, Dorn, Stewart, and Sirtis -- have quiet on social media.

Marina is no longer on Twitter, which was her main outlet for promoting things/herself.

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, FloatOn said:

Both of these still bother me as well. They even has Picard say he would have named Jack after the dead husband. Why?

Residual guilt?  Jack was Picard's good friend and he died under his command.

1 hour ago, marinw said:

We established back in “Lessons” that a captain can have a romantic relationship with a member of thier crew.

Yes, but there's a big difference between head of a science department and XO.  Given how lenient Starfleet is they'd probably allow it if both swore to not let it interfere with their duty, but the optics are still dubious.

[FloatOn]

39 minutes ago, starri said:

Marina is no longer on Twitter, which was her main outlet for promoting things/herself.

People said she posted on her official forum and I went over there and looked yesterday and she seemed happy and positive about it and Trek's future. She was definitely blunt about some other non-Trek stuff so I assume she'd be about Trek too if she was unhappy.

I definitely was one of those who thought she was mad when the stuff about the Star Trek Cruise came out and when she wasn't doing a lot of promo. But seeing the Cruise stuff stuff in context and seeing her quotes away from the Cruise about the show and wanting to do more Trek make me think she was just disappointed and unhappy with the flashback episode with her as a nagging wife and just that she wasn't on the ship sooner. I think it was those specific things she was unhappy with, and not the season overall or the majority of her stuff. That's just my read on the situation now though.

Anyway, let's be honest, outside of Patrick Stewart, I think all of them would happily appear on whatever spinoff they may or may not do and they probably will if the show ends up happening.

[marinw]

As for my previous comment for all we know Seven and Raffi may be getting along as friends and coworkers. In any case I do like how Starfleet doesn’t feel the need to control two consenting adults having a romantic relationship while using their own judgment.

[rtms77]

There is one thing I don’t understand. While the bio weapon was developed, it was done with humans in mind, as Data stated every species has their pattern /dna stored to make it easier for the transporters. Now humans develop way differently than bajorans, or Vulcans etc. So why were the aliens on board affected? They don’t come close to the same physiology as humans or even mature rate. Vulcans are considered young at 50 etc. Beverly’s reasoning was for humans only. None of that made sense.

Edited April 25, 2023 by rtms77

[starri]

36 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

Vulcans are considered young at 50 etc.

Does actually add another layer onto Vadic killing T'Veen and not Esmar.

[dovegrey]

3 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Yes, but there's a big difference between head of a science department and XO.  Given how lenient Starfleet is they'd probably allow it if both swore to not let it interfere with their duty, but the optics are still dubious.

I agree. I don’t like the optics of it. Their relationship has been a barely-there shitshow since it began and, although I’m here for a Captain Seven show, I can’t stand Raffi and I don’t care to watch a shitshow relationship consume stories and airtime. 

I also question the logic of having Raffi serve as First Officer instead of as a captain of her own ship, given that it appears that most command crews were just killed and there should be lots of ships needing experienced officers to serve as captain. All in all, Seven, Raffi, and Jack together on Titan!Enterprise just seems like a lazy manufactured plot contrivance, and it’s a bummer, IMO. (I’d much rather see some manufactured Voyager connections, like Seven and Miral working together.)

As I write this, I also want to complain that the cute celebratory tone that closed out the episode was not well placed, in my opinion. It was a massacre, not a victory, and I’m curious to know the list of the dead. I’m curious to know how the survivors cope with the memories of killing their crews and/or being hunted by their crew. But the writers treated it like superficial plot fluff all so Jack could have a dad. (And although I’ve never understood how assimilated people get blamed for the Borg, Jack made a choice. He shouldn’t be on that bridge.)

[Prevailing Wind]

13 hours ago, Francie said:

Riker was opting for near certain death (or Worf was just joking – one can never tell with this show) to try to save an 82-year-old man

Not an 82-year-old man. A few-years-old android made to look like an 82-year-old man. How the hell does he have ANY remnants of Locutus in that positronic body?

[paigow]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

(And although I’ve never understood how assimilated people get blamed for the Borg, Jack made a choice. He shouldn’t be on that bridge.)

I am shocked at myself offering support for Jack,,,his intent was to save the fleet but he was outsmarted [unsurprisingly]. By that rationale, Beverly should not be an Admiral... she caused all of this by hiding Jack from Picard for 20 years...

4 hours ago, marinw said:

In any case I do like how Starfleet doesn’t feel the need to control two consenting adults having a romantic relationship while using their own judgment.

Paramount let a showrunner hire his girlfriend into a starring role on his show... what could go wrong?

[PurpleTentacle]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:12 PM, Francie said:

Unfortunately, Alandra only existed to give Geordi two daughters, because apparently having two children made him less incel than just the one. That was her sole purpose, and she was otherwise an afterthought to the showrunners. 

I think Alandra mostly existed because they wanted to bring Mika Burton in as Geordi's daughter, but didn't want her as the main actress, who did all the heavy lifting. I don't know how good of an actress she is, but I guess the showrunners didn't want to chance it.

On 4/23/2023 at 3:51 AM, Ottis said:

So I enjoyed the fan service, thought the finale was satisfying emotionally, and will leave out nitpicks except for one question: When the Titan broke free and was buzzing through the fleet, firing, was it firing at *Starfleet ships* knowing that those ships almost certainly had crew members who were not yet assimilated (and could be fighting back) and that even those who were could be unassimilated if things went well? It seemed very un-Trek-like to be taking out their own ships. Did someone say they were only targeting weapons and I missed it?

For once, that's actually something not dumb. They were firing to distract and buy the Enterprise crew some time. They didn't fire to actually do significant damage.

15 hours ago, ML89 said:

I agree on your wrath and add that mine is the plot is a mess - so there's one Borg cube hanging out on Jupiter and no one noticed? How did the Changelings find out and how did they come up with this scheme? How did they all not triple cross each other? 

Also still: How did the Borg get there when they were stranded in empty space for so long that the queen had to eat her drones?

11 hours ago, FloatOn said:

Both of these still bother me as well. They even has Picard say he would have named Jack after the dead husband. Why?

Picard and Beverly's husband were best friends.

10 hours ago, Francie said:

with Shaw (Matalas says he has a brilliant way to bring him back that isn't a cheat)

That I'd like to see, because I think at this point I'd consider about everything a cheat. Dead should mean dead. Everything else cheapens it and lowers the stakes to nothing.

Also I asumme he is going with: hologram.

17 hours ago, Francie said:

His 82-fucking-year-old captain.

Picard has always been roughly 20 years older than Patrick Stewart, so he should be over a 100 now.