legaleagle53 July 8, 2020 Share July 8, 2020 On 7/6/2020 at 1:26 PM, supposebly said: Well, if you keep the relative clause structure, the alternative without stranding the preposition would be: The virus can be passed on by touching a surface on which someone sick has coughed or sneezed. English is one of the very few languages that allows preposition stranding. It's quite special! No need to be embarrassed. Wikipedia examples of preposition stranding I maintain that it's a Germanic holdover from the time when English used separable verbs as freely as German, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish still do. The only reason the practice is frowned upon today is that 18th-century grammarians insisted that English should be grammatically more like Latin (which was considered the language of God, apparently), and in Latin, prepositions cannot end a sentence because Latin prepositions must always govern an object. 3 3 Link to comment
Milburn Stone July 8, 2020 Share July 8, 2020 Everyone probably draws the line a slightly different place. I would avoid ending a sentence in a preposition in news journalism--but not columnist journalism. I would avoid doing it in an academic article--but not a religious sermon. It comes down to the fact that while it may always be technically "permitted," it is not always appropriate. Judgment must be used. 6 Link to comment
Zella July 8, 2020 Share July 8, 2020 12 hours ago, legaleagle53 said: I maintain that it's a Germanic holdover from the time when English used separable verbs as freely as German, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish still do. The only reason the practice is frowned upon today is that 18th-century grammarians insisted that English should be grammatically more like Latin (which was considered the language of God, apparently), and in Latin, prepositions cannot end a sentence because Latin prepositions must always govern an object. If I'm not mistaken, isn't that also where the "don't split infinitives" rule comes from--Latin grammar being applied to Germanic English? 2 Link to comment
supposebly July 8, 2020 Share July 8, 2020 A lot of those kinds of "rules" are based on the idea that one must adhere to the grammar of Latin, the sacred language. You can't split infinitives in Latin (which has no equivalent of 'to'), therefore English must not "split" them either. Most of them are complete nonsense. A few examples here: Grammarphobia 6 4 Link to comment
Haleth July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 That's funny since Latin sentences are so scrambled. Not only conjugating verbs but declining nouns and nothing is in order. I don't know how anyone ever conversed in that language. 1 2 Link to comment
Milburn Stone July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Haleth said: That's funny since Latin sentences are so scrambled. Not only conjugating verbs but declining nouns and nothing is in order. I don't know how anyone ever conversed in that language. I distantly remember from my high school Latin back in the pleistocene era that actual everyday Romans on the street spoke something called The Vulgate. Latin, but not classical Latin. Maybe it was less jumbled. Classical Latin was reserved for writing, speeches in the Senate, and like that. And I guess it was the spoken language of the elite. But not the hoi polloi. I'd like to add that I loved learning classical Latin. It taught me logic about English grammar that I'm not sure I would have learned as well without it. Anyone who has learned Latin will never be confused about when to use "her" versus "she," or "whom" versus "who." Just for starters. Edited July 9, 2020 by Milburn Stone 6 Link to comment
supposebly July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 When you have a language that has a complex declination and conjugation system, word order isn't that important. Languages with a lot less conjugation like English or Chinese or some Austronesian languages require word order to tell you what the subject and what the object is. If you can mark the distinction on the noun, that's not as necessary. English is the only Indo-European language that has such strict word order due to losing most of its conjugation and declination paradigms. Other Germanic languages have a lot more freedom in word order. As to word order in Latin, my very vague memory of high school Latin is that the verb always goes last in the sentence. At least that's how we started the translation of every sentence if I remember correctly. High school was a long time ago. Vulgar Latin is just an assortment of dialects, in contrast to Classical or Standard. That doesn't make it worse or scrambled. Just like we have many variants of English and something we think of as Standard, which however is also different depending on where you are. 1 2 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said: Anyone who has learned Latin will never be confused about when to use "her" versus "she," Anyone who was reared by my mother is similarly never confused about when to used "her" versus "she" etc., perhaps in part because she had Latin classes in high school. I just split and infinitive, didn't I? Heh. My father had equally correct grammar, which he learned from parents who learned English from classes offered at the public library in Brooklyn (or so I have been told). Perhaps he too had Latin in high school, but I don't recall my grandparents ever using incorrect grammar despite their heavily accented English. English would have been their fourth language --learned when they were in their thirties. They forbade the speaking of any other language in the home --at least by the children. Edited July 9, 2020 by shapeshifter 2 Link to comment
meowmommy July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, shapeshifter said: Anyone who was reared by my mother is similarly never confused about when to used "her" versus "she" etc., perhaps in part because she had Latin classes in high school. I just split and infinitive, didn't I? Heh. I don't see the split infinitive. "To use" is not split. I took Latin as well. Even though Latin and German are far apart, the understanding of conjugation and declension was a big help when I went on to German. Latin's a dead language, dead as it can be, first it killed the Romans, and now it's killing me! 4 2 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, meowmommy said: 1 hour ago, shapeshifter said: Anyone who was reared by my mother is similarly never confused about when to used "her" versus "she" etc., perhaps in part because she had Latin classes in high school. I just split and infinitive, didn't I? Heh. I don't see the split infinitive. "To use" is not split. I was thinking "is similarly never confused" would be a split infinitive. No? 1 Link to comment
supposebly July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, shapeshifter said: "is similarly never confused" would be a split infinitive. No? 'confused' is not an infinitive, and 'is' does not indicate one either. Split infinitives refer to constructions like: To boldly go where no man has gone before. You "split" 'to go' by having an adverb boldly between to and the non-finite verb form go. 2 3 Link to comment
Lugal July 9, 2020 Share July 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Milburn Stone said: I distantly remember from my high school Latin back in the pleistocene era that actual everyday Romans on the street spoke something called The Vulgate. Latin, but not classical Latin. Maybe it was less jumbled. Classical Latin was reserved for writing, speeches in the Senate, and like that. And I guess it was the spoken language of the elite. But not the hoi polloi. I never took Latin in school but I did study it on my own (I've always been fascinated by languages and study whatever I can). The word order in Latin is relatively free, but tends toward Subject-Object-Verb like most of the older Indo-European languages. Classical Latin was always kind of an artificial construction, based off the language of the first century BC or so, something like Received Pronunciation. As the empire expanded and Latin speakers settled in other places the Vulgar Latin dialects developed. It was stress patterns and sound shifts in Latin that led to the case system becoming confused and ultimately falling away (similar to what happened in English). In contrast, Romance verb conjugations became more complex. 1 3 Link to comment
legaleagle53 July 10, 2020 Share July 10, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lugal said: I never took Latin in school but I did study it on my own (I've always been fascinated by languages and study whatever I can). The word order in Latin is relatively free, but tends toward Subject-Object-Verb like most of the older Indo-European languages. Classical Latin was always kind of an artificial construction, based off the language of the first century BC or so, something like Received Pronunciation. As the empire expanded and Latin speakers settled in other places the Vulgar Latin dialects developed. It was stress patterns and sound shifts in Latin that led to the case system becoming confused and ultimately falling away (similar to what happened in English). In contrast, Romance verb conjugations became more complex. Vulgar Latin was actually the common, everyday variety of Latin that was spoken by pretty much everyone, and yes, it took a much simpler, more flexible approach to syntax and was much more receptive of foreign elements (particularly from Greek) than the classical language was. And don't forget that educated Romans also spoke Greek because the study of that language was strongly encouraged as part of a proper education, just as we today might encourage the study of Spanish or French. So there was that element that also influenced Vulgar Latin. And Greek had its own counterpart to Vulgar Latin, incidentally. The Koine Greek of the New Testament was actually the common, everyday language in Greece and throughout the Roman Empire, not the Classical Attic Greek of Homer or Socrates. Edited July 10, 2020 by legaleagle53 2 2 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 14, 2020 Share July 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Brookside said: "Imma". Wrong, wrong, wrong. Aw, c'mon, now. How's about "Imma Be" by the Black Eyed Peas? Quote Black Eyed Peas Lyrics "Imma Be" I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be be be be I'mma I'mma be I'mma be be be be I'mma I'mma be I'mma be be be be I'mma I'mma be [Fergie] I'mma be on the next level I'mma be rocking over that bass treble I'mma be chilling with my mutha mutha crew I'mma be making all them deals you wanna do I'mma be up in them A-list flicks Doing one-handed flips and I'mma be Sipping on drinks 'cause I'mma be shaking my hips You gon' be licking your lips I'mma be taking them pics Looking all fly and shit I'mma be the flyest chick (so fly) I'mma be spreading my wings I'mma be doing my thing (do it do it OK) I'mma I'mma swing it this way (I'mma I'mma) I'mma I'mma swing it that way This is Fergie-ferg and I'mma (I'mma) be here to say 21st century until infinity I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be Rich baby quick quick I'mma I'mma I'mma be The shit baby check me out be I'mma be I'mma be On top never stop (be be) I'mma be I'mma be I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be fuckin' her I'mma I'mma I'mma be I'mma be be be I'mma I'mma be [Will.I.Am] I'mma be the upgraded new negro I'mma be the average brother with soul I'mma be world-wide international I'mma be in Rio rocking Tokyo I'mma be brilliant with my millions Loan out a billion I get back a trillion I'mma be a brother but my name ain't Lehman I'mma be ya bank I'll be loaning out semen Honeys in debt but we bouncing them checks but I don't really mind when they bouncing them checks I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be rich baby I'mma be I'mma I'mma be I'mma I'mma be I'mma be sick with the flow When the goal is to rock the whole globe I'mma be the future I'mma be the whole reason why you ever wanna come to a show You can see what I'm rocking And I'm kickin' down a door I'mma be up in the club Doing whatever I like I'mma be popping that bubbly Cooling and living that good life Oh let's make this last forever Partying we'll chill together On and on and on-and-on-and On and on and on and on and I'mma be rocking like this (what) Yall niggas wanna talk shit (but) Why don't you put it on the blog nigga? Rocking like this my job nigga We can't help that we popular And all these folks want to flock to us Come to a show and just rock with us A million plus with binoculars I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be living that good life I'mma be living that good good I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be living that good life I'mma be living that good good I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be living that good life I'mma be living that good good I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be living that good life I'mma be living that good good I'mma be.... I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be [Apl.de.ap] I'mma be rocking that Apl.de.ap infinite BEP we definitely on some next level shit Futuristic musically Powerful with energy From the soul we sonically Sending positivity Crossed the globe and seven seas Take care of our families Rocking shows making cheese I'mma be out with my peas Living life feeling free That's how it's supposed to be Come join my festivities Celebrate like I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be I'mma be (azlyrics.com/lyrics/blackeyedpeas/immabe.html) 4 1 Link to comment
AimingforYoko July 31, 2020 Share July 31, 2020 On 7/14/2020 at 12:04 PM, shapeshifter said: I'mma be a brother but my name ain't Lehman I'mma be ya bank I'll be loaning out semen That's gold, Jerry! Gold! Bernie Taupin is seething with rage he never came up with lyrics as good. So a nice story about an Air Force veteran named Trinton Reeves: Air Force veteran going home after almost 4 months in the VA hospital. So, the reason I'm bringing it up here is Lester Holt just closed the NBC Nightly News with the story. He ended it by wishing Mr. Reeves a speedy recovery. That horse has left the barn, I'm afraid. 1 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 12, 2020 Share August 12, 2020 (edited) I wish I had time to read this entire thread, but I am only on a short break during work. I'd be willing to bet folding money that somewhere, far back in the pages, there was a discussion about Jane Krakowski's commercial where she said Trop50 juice had 50% less calories. Less than what? The term should be "fewer." They actually finally fixed it after a few years. "Less" is an unspecified amount, while "fewer" is used with something that can be quantified. Anyway, while I have many pet peeves regarding word usage, I will start with one of my father's: the use of the term "unthaw." It is not a word. I fear it will be turned into one soon, as the term "unravel" has. The word actually used to be simple "ravel" until it was misused so much the dictionary added it. Hopefully they will never adopt "spayded" due to all the people saying "spayed" incorrectly. If you hear the term used by many people where I live it sounds like "I spaded my cat yesterday." Geez! I'm sorry that your cat was hit in the head by a small shovel! Edited August 12, 2020 by Cowgirl 8 3 Link to comment
meowmommy August 12, 2020 Share August 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Cowgirl said: Anyway, while I have many pet peeves regarding word usage, I will start with one of my father's: the use of the term "unthaw." It is not a word. I fear it will be turned into one soon, as the term "unravel" has. The word actually used to be simple "ravel" until it was misused so much the dictionary added it. Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, I could care less. You supposably misunderestimate participators in English grammer. And now, because I'm nauseous, I need an expresso. 15 3 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 12, 2020 Share August 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, meowmommy said: Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, I could care less. You supposably misunderestimate participators in English grammer. And now, because I'm nauseous, I need an expresso. You made me LOL so hard my coworkers came back to check on me! Besides "irregardless," one I see quiet often is the misuse of "regards." I see "with regards to" a LOT! "I could care less" is a personal irritant. My best friend is going to go mad some day, because "I seen" is used a lot at her office, and "pitcher" is used instead of "picture." One day she called me and I thought her head was going to explode. One of her staff members had actually put them together (with no comedy intended) and said, "I seen this pitcher of a waterfall..." 2 2 Link to comment
shapeshifter August 12, 2020 Share August 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cowgirl said: My best friend is going to go mad some day, because "I seen" is used a lot at her office, and "pitcher" is used instead of "picture." One day she called me and I thought her head was going to explode. One of her staff members had actually put them together (with no comedy intended) and said, "I seen this pitcher of a waterfall..." My ex (30 years ago) used "I seen" a lot. I tried to explain that it bugged me, but his response was making excuses for why he used it. Eventually he found someone who was a lot like me except she didn't mind his grammar or any of his other bad habits. Then he divorced me. ⟵ punch line 2 Link to comment
Zella August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Cowgirl said: "pitcher" is used instead of "picture." I had a PE class in which I was stuck teaming up with this girl who kept talking and talking about her pitchers of her boyfriend. I basically had a nervous twitch every time she said the word pitcher after one one-hour class. If she hadn't dropped after 2 weeks, I probably would have had to drop for my own mental health. 6 1 Link to comment
SuprSuprElevated August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Cowgirl said: I wish I had time to read this entire thread, but I am only on a short break during work. I'd be willing to bet folding money that somewhere, far back in the pages, there was a discussion about Jane Krakowski's commercial where she said Trop50 juice had 50% less calories. Less than what? The term should be "fewer." They actually finally fixed it after a few years. "Less" is an unspecified amount, while "fewer" is used with something that can be quantified. Anyway, while I have many pet peeves regarding word usage, I will start with one of my father's: the use of the term "unthaw." It is not a word. I fear it will be turned into one soon, as the term "unravel" has. The word actually used to be simple "ravel" until it was misused so much the dictionary added it. Hopefully they will never adopt "spayded" due to all the people saying "spayed" incorrectly. If you hear the term used by many people where I live it sounds like "I spaded my cat yesterday." Geez! I'm sorry that your cat was hit in the head by a small shovel! See also 'debone the chicken'. It was 'boned' chicken until mid-20th century. See also 'unpitted' olives. One of my favorites which really doesn't belong in this group, is "hot water heater". 1 Link to comment
Haleth August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 13 hours ago, meowmommy said: Irregardless, for all intensive purposes Funny, this came up as a conversation on FB yesterday. 1 Link to comment
Ohiopirate02 August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 One of the hardest things about working in a library is having to silently deal with coworkers who insist upon calling their workplace the lie-berry. The worst offender is someone who is almost my equal in the organizational flowchart and I die each time she utters it. 4 7 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said: See also 'debone the chicken'. It was 'boned' chicken until mid-20th century. See also 'unpitted' olives. One of my favorites which really doesn't belong in this group, is "hot water heater". Interesting! I bet "denuded" is like that too. 2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said: One of the hardest things about working in a library is having to silently deal with coworkers who insist upon calling their workplace the lie-berry. The worst offender is someone who is almost my equal in the organizational flowchart and I die each time she utters it. I work with a lovely man who is both an EMT and a county commissioner. He always pronounces "ambulance" as "ambleeance." I thought of all of you last night -- I saw a television ad for -- I can't quite recall, maybe a new drug-- that mentioned it had fewer (used correctly) something and less (something quantifiable so it was used incorrectly. Side effects, I think.) I will have to see it again and remember better. I just saw this on an advice column comment forum: "You set a precedence when you did your coworker's job." I've seen this several times in the last week alone -- "precedence" used for "precedent." Edited August 13, 2020 by Cowgirl 1 2 Link to comment
Brookside August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Cowgirl said: You made me LOL so hard my coworkers came back to check on me! Besides "irregardless," one I see quiet often is the misuse of "regards." I see "with regards to" a LOT! "I could care less" is a personal irritant. My best friend is going to go mad some day, because "I seen" is used a lot at her office, and "pitcher" is used instead of "picture." One day she called me and I thought her head was going to explode. One of her staff members had actually put them together (with no comedy intended) and said, "I seen this pitcher of a waterfall..." "Quiet" often? In this thread? 🙂 Edited August 13, 2020 by Brookside 2 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 (edited) On 8/13/2020 at 12:11 PM, Brookside said: "Quiet" often? In this thread? LOLing at myself! Whoops. That's what I get for sneaking this in while I'm supposed to be reviewing legal contracts. Now I'd better go back and see what I missed in my contracts! 🤪 Edited August 14, 2020 by Cowgirl Apparently, the ability to spell is beyond me this week! 4 Link to comment
Brookside August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 Off of. I hate this. Even typing it makes me squirm. 4 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 (edited) Where's it at? I got it off of your guys's porch and put it away gone. One I never heard while growing up here, but that at least two different public officials have said in meetings is the use of "Pacific" instead of "specific." Weird. And wrong! Now, lest I sound too pedantic, I had to break myself of using "brang" as a word. I.e., "Who brang the potato chips to the party?" Bring, brang, have brung. (Also, swing, swang, swung.) Um...nope! Edited August 13, 2020 by Cowgirl 1 2 Link to comment
shapeshifter August 13, 2020 Share August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Cowgirl said: Where's it at? I got it off of your guys's porch and put it away gone. One I never heard while growing up here, but that at least two different public officials have said in meetings is the use of "Pacific" instead of "specific." Weird. And wrong! Now, lest I sound too pedantic, I had to break myself of using "brang" as a word. I.e., "Who brang the potato chips to the party?" Bring, brang, have brung. (Also, swing, swang, swung.) Um...nope! To paraphrase the glass house/stone throwing adage: People who live in houses where potato chips are brang to the party should not throw verbal accusations at those who bring potato chips to your guys's place. But feel free to cringe. 2 1 Link to comment
meowmommy August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Cowgirl said: Now, lest I sound too pedantic, I had to break myself of using "brang" as a word. I.e., "Who brang the potato chips to the party?" Bring, brang, have brung. (Also, swing, swang, swung.) Um...nope! Not pedantic, but curious how you acquired the "word" in the first place. I've never understood how so many disparate people share the same certain basic grammatical errors (brang, ain't, have went, etc., etc., etc.!). And most of them are, or claim to be, at least high school graduates, and therefore have been exposed to an English class or two. IMNSHO, while some may argue about the Oxford comma and whether quotation marks go inside or outside the period (outside!), passable grammar and syntax shouldn't require any more learning or effort to manage correctly than to mangle. Link to comment
Irlandesa August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, meowmommy said: I've never understood how so many disparate people share the same certain basic grammatical errors (brang, ain't, have went, etc., etc., etc.!). Some of it is regional. A lot of it is based on the logic of similar verbs. It's also often harder to break bad habits in speaking, which is developed through listening/repeating, vs. in writing, which is usually learned in a more formal setting at an older age. And much of it was perfectly acceptable until either prescriptivsts decided it wasn't (ain't)* or it changed over time (swang to swung). *Imagine being told "ain't" is wrong in the grammar lesson but then seeing it in texts by "serious/classy" authors who use it during the literature section. But I will not budge on "I seen" though. That's just wrong. Edited August 14, 2020 by Irlandesa 7 Link to comment
shapeshifter August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Irlandesa said: But I will not budge on "I seen" though. That's just wrong. My ex argued that “I saw” sounded like he was sawing a piece of wood. 🤔 Am I a snob because I enthusiastically declare that I hit the stepmother jackpot for my kids when he married an attorney who is the daughter of a medical doctor? 4 Link to comment
SVNBob August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 16 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said: One of the hardest things about working in a library is having to silently deal with coworkers who insist upon calling their workplace the lie-berry. The worst offender is someone who is almost my equal in the organizational flowchart and I die each time she utters it. Funnily enough, there is a worse offender in general: The Riddler. Here's proof: 3 hours ago, Irlandesa said: 5 hours ago, meowmommy said: 8 hours ago, Cowgirl said: Now, lest I sound too pedantic, I had to break myself of using "brang" as a word. I.e., "Who brang the potato chips to the party?" Bring, brang, have brung. (Also, swing, swang, swung.) Um...nope! Not pedantic, but curious how you acquired the "word" in the first place. Some of it is regional. A lot of it is based on the logic of similar verbs. That's what I thought when I saw this conversation and line of thought. Eg: Spring, Sprang, Sprung. 1 1 1 Link to comment
Irlandesa August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, SVNBob said: That's what I thought when I saw this conversation and line of thought. Eg: Spring, Sprang, Sprung. Yep. I thought of sing, sang, sung. 1 Link to comment
SVNBob August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Irlandesa said: Yep. I thought of sing, sang, sung. I was trying to think of a second, but I don't know why I couldn't think of those words. And now Ring, Rang, Rung finally came to mind as well. This does lead to an interesting question for this thread. When someone uses incorrect grammar but there is an underlying logic that applies elsewhere (as in this example), is that less offensive than the other grammatical mistakes we tend to grouse about? ( I would have asked if they were more acceptable, but I doubt that would fly here.) Link to comment
Moose135 August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 9 hours ago, shapeshifter said: My ex argued that “I saw” sounded like he was sawing a piece of wood. "I see!" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw... 5 1 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 14, 2020 Share August 14, 2020 14 hours ago, SVNBob said: This does lead to an interesting question for this thread. When someone uses incorrect grammar but there is an underlying logic that applies elsewhere (as in this example), is that less offensive than the other grammatical mistakes we tend to grouse about? ( I would have asked if they were more acceptable, but I doubt that would fly here.) Interesting question. I think it's more forgivable if the speaker for is for whom English is a second language. How on earth someone could learn all these rules and exceptions if they haven't spoken the language since their toddler years is beyond me. For me, my parents spoke well (they were from America, not ESL speakers) and I think I must have heard the "word" "brung" from friends and picked it up. It would be a hard habit to break if a person's parents and family used poor grammar all of their life. I think the worst transgression is when someone has been properly taught, but does not employ the lesson, rather than those who were never educated correctly on a particular rule. My family had so much fun with word games, tongue twisters, spoonerisms, and the like while I was growing up. My folks also liked to talk like the original comic strip characters in Pogo did. The problem was when we'd forget, and joke in public, and someone would come down on us for mis-speaking. No one ever got angry though. Instead my parents would explain about Pogo and word games and give some examples. 3 Link to comment
jennblevins August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 (edited) Tonight on History Channel’s “Apocalypse Earth,” a demonstration of why you need to proofread, even if you run the spellchecker. Onscreen caption: ”A funnel could approaches the downtown area ....” Yes, we know it could; you live in tornado alley. Oh, you mean a funnel cloud? Edited August 17, 2020 by jennblevins Of course, a typo. 5 1 Link to comment
praeceptrix August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 6 hours ago, jennblevins said: Tonight on History Channel’s “Apocalypse Earth,” a demonstration of why you need to proofread, even if you run the spellchecker. Onscreen caption: ”A funnel could approaches the downtown area ....” Yes, we know it could; you live in tornado alley. Oh, you mean a funnel cloud? Clearly I am a bit loopy this morning (semester starts in a week and I am still not comfortable with or prepared for teaching online 😟), but my first reaction was to wonder what kind of funnel -- a funnel cake (yum!)? a funnel for decanting? I'm also having fond memories of the Pros and Cons of Closed Captioning thread at Television Without Pity. Both computer generated captions and those done by humans can produce some amusing mistakes. 6 Link to comment
SweetieDarling August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 One of my local news sites has been running this headline for at least the last month and a half (don't even get me started on that...) " Elderly woman found dead at Woodlawn home of sharp-force trauma" 6 Link to comment
Quof August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 What's wrong with that? Surely it's the opposite of "blunt force trauma". Link to comment
meowmommy August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Quof said: What's wrong with that? Surely it's the opposite of "blunt force trauma". Probably the "home of sharp force trauma." 1 5 Link to comment
jennblevins August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, praeceptrix said:I'm also having fond memories of the Pros and Cons of Closed Captioning thread at Television Without Pity. Both computer generated captions and those done by humans can produce some amusing mistakes. My favorite on that thread was the ad for “Bug Lite” beer — I always pictured that as a light-up beer can that attracted bugs while you were drinking it, although I’m not sure why anyone would think that’s a good idea. We can’t blame the rampaging funnel cakes on closed captioners, though, since it was more of a “black screen of impending doom” thing. Link to comment
Milburn Stone August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, meowmommy said: Probably the "home of sharp force trauma." For all your sharp force trauma needs. 9 Link to comment
ABay August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 They have the Sharp Force Festival every July. 2 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter August 17, 2020 Share August 17, 2020 4 hours ago, SweetieDarling said: One of my local news sites has been running this headline for at least the last month and a half (don't even get me started on that...) " Elderly woman found dead at Woodlawn home of sharp-force trauma" 6 minutes ago, ABay said: They have the Sharp Force Festival every July. I was pretty sure Sharp Force Trauma was a band name. 3 Link to comment
Cowgirl August 20, 2020 Share August 20, 2020 I saw the drug commerial featuring bad grammar again. It is for some asthma drug and the voiceover says you will have less asthma and less symptoms. AAAAAAIIIIGH! Link to comment
supposebly August 20, 2020 Share August 20, 2020 No need to cringe so much about less vs. fewer. You wouldn't say The store is fewer than three miles away either. It was expressed as a personal preference about 200 years ago. Link to some history of fewer and less. Old School Grammar and the new role of English. And from Wikipedia: The oldest use that the Oxford English Dictionary gives for less with a countable noun is a quotation from 888 by Alfred the Great: Swa mid læs worda swa mid ma, swæðer we hit yereccan mayon. ("With less words or with more, whether we may prove it.") This is in fact an Old English partitive construction using the "quasi-substantive" adverb læs and the genitive worda ("less of words") (cf. plenty of words and *plenty words). When the genitive plural ceased to exist, "less of words" became "less words", and this construction has been used since then until the present. Fowler, H.W. (2015). Butterfield, Jeremy (ed.). Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage. Oxford University Press. p. 472. 3 1 Link to comment
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