Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[EtheltoTillie]

@Yeah No So glad your cruise worked out!  No seasickness, and you actually had fun!

I personally got seasick many years ago on a ferry from Bar Harbor, Maine, to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Part of your route.  About a six-hour ride.  I had taken Dramamine.  But when I went on a real cruise ship, I did not get sick.

[StatisticalOutlier]

33 minutes ago, Dimity said:

But now, apparently, there are tip jars in convenience stores and various other retail places...wow.

Why shouldn't they have tip jars?  In restaurants with waiter service, waiters are paid below minimum wage, and tips make up the difference between their wage and minimum wage.  Tips are baked in to the table-service system.

But Starbucks or Chipotle?  Those people aren't paid a "tipped wage"; they're paid at least minimum wage and are no different, wage-wise, from people who work at 7-Eleven or Kroger.  For all of them, their employer sets their wage, with a government-mandated minimum.  Any tipping just reduces the employer's burden to pay its employees itself, and there's zero reason why that should be expected at Starbucks but not 7-Eleven.

I avoid sit-down restaurants whenever possible because I don't like supporting the system where waiters are paid below minimum wage and tips make up the difference.  But when I do go, I tip appropriately because I know the tip is baked in to the wages. 

Everybody else?  No tip.  Call me crazy, but I think an employee's wage should be a matter between the employee and the employer, and should not be dependent in the least on customers' biases or moods or generosity or ignorance.

But I'm in the minority, judging from how many people I see tipping at counter-service restaurants, and there's no convincing them that they're supporting an unfair system.  So every time I see someone tipping someone who's not working as a "tipped employee," I just look at it as voluntarily helping keep the prices I have to pay lower.

 

 

[ECM1231]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have dinner out based on the specials my local places run. I've been going out almost every Wednesday night lately to my local pizzeria that does a $14 pizza of the week and 1/2 price wine. It's less than $30 for a pie and a bottle of wine which I split with my mom and still have leftovers. Sometimes we thrown in an appetizer or some banana pudding for dessert. 

That's a great deal! Pizzerias around here are now charging $25 for a NY style Neapolitan pizza. NY pizzas tend to be larger, I think, than in other places, but still, the cost has increased dramatically. Pre-pandemic we were paying maybe 15 bucks. 

@Yeah No, welcome back! I'm so delighted to hear about your marvelous cruise and that you didn't get sick at all. I've taken that same NYC to Nova Scotia and St. John, twice, but never on the QE2.  And how fun to be in Canada on Canada Day and in Boston on Independence Day!

[Dimity]

51 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Why shouldn't they have tip jars?  In restaurants with waiter service, waiters are paid below minimum wage, and tips make up the difference between their wage and minimum wage.  Tips are baked in to the table-service system.

Perhaps this is true where you live, it's not true here where I am.

[fairffaxx]

Canada has its own laws & may treat restaurant workers better than the U.S. does.

[Quof]

Newsflash - Canada is a sovereign nation, not part of the US.   Food service workers across Canada are paid at least the same minimum wage as all other employees, except in one province in which tipped workers are paid approximately $2 per hour below the legal minimum wage.  No food service worker in the country is paid less than $12.50 per hour, and most more than $15.  Yet the American influence leads to the same tip creep, with the suggestion that 20% is the minimum acceptable tip.

[supposebly]

48 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

Canada has its own laws & may treat restaurant workers better than the U.S. does.

Not from what I know. I used to have a friend who worked as a waitress for a long time. The money she made was the tips. And she worked for below minimum wage. However, that was back in the early 2000s.

Apparently, that was eliminated in 2022 in Ontario.

https://nowtoronto.com/food-and-drink/how-does-the-new-minimum-wage-affect-tipping-at-restaurants/

And keep in mind, Ontario isn't Canada. Ontarians need to be reminded of that sometimes.😉

 

Edited July 11 by supposebly

[annzeepark914]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

@Yeah No So glad your cruise worked out!  No seasickness, and you actually had fun!

I personally got seasick many years ago on a ferry from Bar Harbor, Maine, to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Part of your route.  About a six-hour ride.  I had taken Dramamine.  But when I went on a real cruise ship, I did not get sick.

Were you on the "Cat" ferry? We took that from BH to Yarmouth back in 2004. 

@Yeah No Thanks for telling us about your great cruise. I was wondering how you fared. 

 

 

[Dimity]

8 minutes ago, supposebly said:

And keep in mind, Ontario isn't Canada. Ontarians need to be reminded of that sometimes.😉

😀!  It's weird to me that I have now lived in Ontario longer than any other province and yet I will never feel that it's my home province.  I wonder if others who move here as adults feel the same way?

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I was about to ask you to cite your sources here, but then I remembered the one time I went out drinking with my Millennial sister and her friends. They thought nothing of doing separate checks at every establishment on a bar crawl. They were so worried about potentially spending any amount of money on one of their friends that I can only imagine them being bad tippers. It's actually funny to watch her depending on who else she is out with after she married a Gen-Xer. She's a lot more generous when she's out with her husband and the other Gen X parents from her kids' school. When she comes back to visit her high school friends, it's separate checks for every little thing. 

I just read over what I wrote and boy do I sound cynical!  I would have cited sources but it's been all over the media including my local TV news in recent months so I figured it was safe to mention. I hate generalizing by generation though, but if it's based on research it does mean something. One of my best friends' kids is a waitress and makes excellent money at a fine restaurant, so good she decided not to go college! Of course all his kids were raised right and are generous tippers, but that means 20%, not 40% or more!

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

@Yeah No So glad your cruise worked out!  No seasickness, and you actually had fun!

I personally got seasick many years ago on a ferry from Bar Harbor, Maine, to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Part of your route.  About a six-hour ride.  I had taken Dramamine.  But when I went on a real cruise ship, I did not get sick.

Never having been on a ship bigger than a ferry myself I didn't know how I would react. I never got sick on a large commercial jet either but I have gotten sick on a small plane.

The weird thing is that I've gotten sick on some ferries but not others. If I stand outside and look at the water I'm less likely to get sick. I think it also depends on how choppy the water is. But that doesn't even matter on ship as big as a cruise ship I guess. Although the QM2 supposedly has beefed up stabilizers that regular cruise ships don't have and is considered the last real ocean liner still in service.

Has anyone noticed that the new "thank you" emoticon has changed yet again today?  LOL

[SoMuchTV]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

 

Has anyone noticed that the new "thank you" emoticon has changed yet again today?  LOL

Some background here:

 

[EtheltoTillie]

I don't know if I went on the Cat ferry.  I don't know what that is.  It was 1970 FWIW. 

 

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I avoid sit-down restaurants whenever possible because I don't like supporting the system where waiters are paid below minimum wage and tips make up the difference.  But when I do go, I tip appropriately because I know the tip is baked in to the wages. 

Everybody else?  No tip.  Call me crazy, but I think an employee's wage should be a matter between the employee and the employer, and should not be dependent in the least on customers' biases or moods or generosity or ignorance.

But I'm in the minority, judging from how many people I see tipping at counter-service restaurants, and there's no convincing them that they're supporting an unfair system.  So every time I see someone tipping someone who's not working as a "tipped employee," I just look at it as voluntarily helping keep the prices I have to pay lower.

I don't really have a militant opinion on this but my husband does because he relied on tips as a limo. driver for several years. He was always a good tipper and knew all the situations where one was supposed to tip, who to tip and how much, but got even more aware of that once he was in that kind of work. He has made me aware of just how much workers other than waiters rely on tips as a part of their "baked in" pay structure. One big segment of those workers are employed in the hospitality industry. Even on our cruise we were encouraged to tip our cleaning steward, and I must say, she really went above and beyond to earn that tip, which we put in a nice thank you card.

And truthfully, I see nothing wrong with encouraging people to tip as a way to keep employees working at their best and reward those who do, whether it's to earn the tip or just because they have pride in their work. In a lot of those situations there would be little incentive to do more than just the bare minimum just to skate by. And I hate to say that the youngest generations have not impressed me with their work ethic and their attitude of entitlement about being paid high wages for the bare minimum tends to chap my Boomer hyde. Don't get me started....😏

And truthfully, performance-based pay is even a thing in the corporate world. Just because you don't rely on tips there doesn't mean you don't have to go above and beyond to earn a bonus or a pay raise. And I see nothing wrong with that either. It actually seems fairer to me that people should be paid more for better work, and tipping is a part of that philosophy.

And I don't see it that employers are expecting the customer to pay part of their employee's salaries with tipping. That's not it at all. They would actually have to raise their prices to cover their employees' higher salaries if they were to cover the tips, so the customer is actually not paying more because of tipping. Tipping allows the customer to pay an additional amount to the employee based on how satisfied they were with their service. Of course it presumes that the customer is not an asshole and will tip fairly. And that's not the world we necessarily live in anymore. So I do see the downside to this. But in general I am not against tipping for all of those reasons. Just because younger generations don't understand the philosophy is not a reason for me to be against it. I rather think they need to learn a thing or two about a work ethic. But that's just my opinion....

[Quof]

15 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I don't know if I went on the Cat ferry.  I don't know what that is.  It was 1970 FWIW. 

 

The CAT is a high speed ferry that has operated between Bar Harbor or Portland and Nova Scotia periodically over the last ~20 years.   You weren't on it in 1970!, but assorted old and slow ferries sailed every summer for decades.

Edited July 12 by Quof

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

Not from what I know. I used to have a friend who worked as a waitress for a long time. The money she made was the tips. And she worked for below minimum wage. However, that was back in the early 2000s.

Apparently, that was eliminated in 2022 in Ontario.

https://nowtoronto.com/food-and-drink/how-does-the-new-minimum-wage-affect-tipping-at-restaurants/

And keep in mind, Ontario isn't Canada. Ontarians need to be reminded of that sometimes.😉

 

And it's impossible to live on minimum if you're in Toronto, unless you're living with your parents for free (or charge you like $200/month).

[Dimity]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

And it's impossible to live on minimum if you're in Toronto, unless you're living with your parents for free (or charge you like $200/month).

I know Toronto is probably the worst but any major city in Eastern Ontario is horrible for renters now.

[annzeepark914]

19 minutes ago, Quof said:

The CAT is a high speed ferry that has operated between Bar Harbor or Portland and Nova Scotia periodically over the last ~20 years.   You weren't on it in 1970!, but assorted old and slow ferries sailed every summer for decades.

Loved the Cat ferry. It had painted-on whiskers on the bow. I think it was eventually sold to another country. Now they have a different ferry (no whiskers).

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It actually seems fairer to me that people should be paid more for better work, and tipping is a part of that philosophy.

Except that's not how tipping actually works. 

Quote

Unfortunately, the data shows that tipping in this country is not actually correlated with the quality of service. It’s unfortunately correlated with the race and gender and look of the server.

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/09/19/the-tipped-minimum-wage-has-origins-in-slavery/

Edited July 12 by StatisticalOutlier
Brackets around the letter "u" turns it into an underline command, when I wanted to indicate that the "u" in "unfortunately" isn't capitalized in the original material. The internet is no place for sticklers.

[Yeah No]

27 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Except that's not how tipping actually works. 

No, but nothing in reality works exactly according to the philosophy it's based upon.

[Yeah No]

About the tipping issue, upon thinking it over I think it's more naive to think that employers are the best judges of what a fair wage is than it is to give customers some control over what an employee gets. Employers can be just as or more unfair than customers in that regard. They can have their favorites and it's not necessarily who really deserves it. At least with customers some are going to be generous and some won't, so it will tend to average out. And giving everyone in the same position the same pay with no incentive to earn more based on performance and customer satisfaction is also naive and would not encourage people to work to their best ability. It would rather make them more liable to do as little as possible because they will make the same money anyway.

I personally wonder how many people who don't like tipping don't like it because it means they'd have to do more work than someone else to earn it. Some people are so entitled that they don't think they should have to do more than anyone else and yet they think they should still make what everyone who works harder than them makes. As someone who was usually the one to pull up the slack for people like that, I am not in favor of rewarding them with the same pay I made for what is less work of lesser quality. In my career I earned my bonuses. It's of course not a perfect system but nothing is, and the alternative is in my opinion less perfect than that.

[Dimity]

My problem with tipping is, just as there are employers and employees who can be jerks, there are also customers who can be petty jerks as well.  I was out for dinner with some  colleagues a few years ago when we were at a conference and when the bill came one of the others wanted to put the whole thing on her credit card to get the points.  Which was fine, the rest of us gave her what she told us was our share in cash. 

So she pays the bill at the counter and comes back to the table and whispers "I only gave the server 10% because she forgot the wine."   Which was true but the place was slammed, she was serving a bunch of tables and when she was reminded of the wine she got it immediately and otherwise was an excellent server.

When Miss "I only tipped 10%" went out for a smoke we all chipped in and gave the server "the rest of her tip" as we expressed it to her.

Anyway my point is Miss 10% was just gleeful about being able to punish someone for her perceived lapse - it was like a power trip.

[supposebly]

I think tipping should be "extra". For extra good service, for an extraordinary experience. Servers need to be paid a living wage, like everyone else.

Everyone has a bad day, and most people still get paid even when they don't have a good day and maybe perform just average. 

I find it appalling that some stranger gets to decide that you barely/don't get paid for your work today because you're having a bad day. Or just an average day. It should be the employer who determines if someone's work isn't good enough.

And on the subject of tipping your mechanic. I would refuse to tip for a service where I only get to realize how good or bad the service was after I leave the shop.

I hate the tipping culture in North America. It's just another excuse not to pay people and holding them hostage to the daily whims of customers. 

I'm from Germany and while the service might be a bit on the less overwhelming side, I also don't have to tip this much and can refuse to tip them if they suck and I don't have to feel guilty that they barely get paid today although they showed up for work.

[StatisticalOutlier]

15 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And giving everyone in the same position the same pay with no incentive to earn more based on performance and customer satisfaction is also naive and would not encourage people to work to their best ability.

Why would everyone in the same position have to have the same pay?  Every job I've ever had had people earning different amounts, based on experience and performance. 

Quote

It would rather make them more liable to do as little as possible because they will make the same money anyway.

No, because it would be just like the corporate world you mentioned--if they don't perform, they don't get bonuses or raises. 

6 hours ago, supposebly said:

I find it appalling that some stranger gets to decide that you barely/don't get paid for your work today because you're having a bad day. Or just an average day. It should be the employer who determines if someone's work isn't good enough.

That's what I find so maddening about the debate--it just seems so obvious that a person's employer should be the one to determine if that person's work is or isn't good enough.  Why is it that this one job is different from pretty much every other job there is?  Oh, right.  Racism, classism, sexism.

Quote

I hate the tipping culture in North America. It's just another excuse not to pay people and holding them hostage to the daily whims of customers. 

And more important than whims, which are bad enough to base your ability to meet your daily financial obligations on, you have bias, which is exceedingly well documented when it comes to which tipped workers make bank and which barely survive. 

As someone I read put it, a server doesn't have just one employer--she has hundreds, thousands, because every single customer is her employer.  That's an insane system.

Plus it makes no sense for the customers.  If your tab includes a $200 bottle of wine, do you tip 20% on that?  Or do you shave some off because serving a $200 bottle of wine is no different, work-wise, from serving a $30 bottle of wine?  If the tip should be discounted, how much?  Surely you should tell the server what you're doing, because otherwise the server and his employer will think the server did a poor job because the tip was low.

If the server serves a $30 bottle of wine with great flair but merely opens a $200 bottle, should the tip be 20% of $30 and 20% of $200, respectively, or should the tip on the $30 bottle be higher than 20%, and the tip on the $200 bottle be lower than 20% because the server didn't display the appropriate amount of respect for an expensive bottle of wine.  (Assuming it's expensive--I drink that swill from Aldi, so I have no idea.)

But is serving a bottle of wine with flair something that is universally acknowledged as superior service?  What if the customer just wants someone to open his bottle of wine without making a big presentation of it?  Should the customer tell the server that, so the server doesn't inadvertently lower his pay for that day by going above and beyond just opening the bottle?

Does a person serving a $10 breakfast work 50% as hard as someone who serves that same customer a $20 dinner later that day?

And if a woman rejects a grope from her employer-for-an-hour-this-evening, her pay will very likely suffer for it.  That alone should be a reason to stop this madness.

And one more thing about customers--blacks are perceived as being worse tippers than whites, so a savvy server, who has one employer who is probably generous and one employer who is probably less generous, will give better service to the customer he thinks will pay more.  And what happens in that case?  The black customer receives poorer service.  And if tips are supposed to be a reflection of service, then the black customer will leave a smaller tip.  And the server will notice.  And what will happen the next time this server has a choice between favoring a white customer or a black customer?

It's all just fucking insane.

 

[Calvada]

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

My problem with tipping is, just as there are employers and employees who can be jerks, there are also customers who can be petty jerks as well.  I was out for dinner with some  colleagues a few years ago when we were at a conference and when the bill came one of the others wanted to put the whole thing on her credit card to get the points.  Which was fine, the rest of us gave her what she told us was our share in cash. 

So she pays the bill at the counter and comes back to the table and whispers "I only gave the server 10% because she forgot the wine."   Which was true but the place was slammed, she was serving a bunch of tables and when she was reminded of the wine she got it immediately and otherwise was an excellent server.

When Miss "I only tipped 10%" went out for a smoke we all chipped in and gave the server "the rest of her tip" as we expressed it to her.

Anyway my point is Miss 10% was just gleeful about being able to punish someone for her perceived lapse - it was like a power trip.

One time I was at a work conference and went out to dinner with colleagues from my office and the other regional office in our state. One of the people was the head of the other office and he decided that he would be the one to collect the money. He added it up and decided there was too much money, it would be too high of a tip. He went around the table asking what each person put in and determining whether it was too much. WTF? I refused to tell him, but the person sitting next to me who worked for him spoke up, "Calvada, didn't you put in $X?"  He gave me money back, telling me it was too much to tip. Again, WTF? I felt the server deserved the tip I had decided to give. And I was paying for MY dinner with MY money and it was none of his business! I pushed the money back to him, saying I wanted her to have it, and he pushed it back to me, telling me again it was too much. I said I WANT her to have it and put the money down on the table very emphatically. What an ass that guy was.  

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Why would everyone in the same position have to have the same pay?  Every job I've ever had had people earning different amounts, based on experience and performance. 

No, because it would be just like the corporate world you mentioned--if they don't perform, they don't get bonuses or raises. 

That's what I find so maddening about the debate--it just seems so obvious that a person's employer should be the one to determine if that person's work is or isn't good enough.  Why is it that this one job is different from pretty much every other job there is?  Oh, right.  Racism, classism, sexism.

And more important than whims, which are bad enough to base your ability to meet your daily financial obligations on, you have bias, which is exceedingly well documented when it comes to which tipped workers make bank and which barely survive. 

As someone I read put it, a server doesn't have just one employer--she has hundreds, thousands, because every single customer is her employer.  That's an insane system.

Plus it makes no sense for the customers.  If your tab includes a $200 bottle of wine, do you tip 20% on that?  Or do you shave some off because serving a $200 bottle of wine is no different, work-wise, from serving a $30 bottle of wine?  If the tip should be discounted, how much?  Surely you should tell the server what you're doing, because otherwise the server and his employer will think the server did a poor job because the tip was low.

If the server serves a $30 bottle of wine with great flair but merely opens a $200 bottle, should the tip be 20% of $30 and 20% of $200, respectively, or should the tip on the $30 bottle be higher than 20%, and the tip on the $200 bottle be lower than 20% because the server didn't display the appropriate amount of respect for an expensive bottle of wine.  (Assuming it's expensive--I drink that swill from Aldi, so I have no idea.)

But is serving a bottle of wine with flair something that is universally acknowledged as superior service?  What if the customer just wants someone to open his bottle of wine without making a big presentation of it?  Should the customer tell the server that, so the server doesn't inadvertently lower his pay for that day by going above and beyond just opening the bottle?

Does a person serving a $10 breakfast work 50% as hard as someone who serves that same customer a $20 dinner later that day?

And if a woman rejects a grope from her employer-for-an-hour-this-evening, her pay will very likely suffer for it.  That alone should be a reason to stop this madness.

And one more thing about customers--blacks are perceived as being worse tippers than whites, so a savvy server, who has one employer who is probably generous and one employer who is probably less generous, will give better service to the customer he thinks will pay more.  And what happens in that case?  The black customer receives poorer service.  And if tips are supposed to be a reflection of service, then the black customer will leave a smaller tip.  And the server will notice.  And what will happen the next time this server has a choice between favoring a white customer or a black customer?

It's all just fucking insane.

 

All of what you're saying about employers being the best people to decide how much people should be paid is in my opinion no better because employers have been the very ones unfairly underpaying people, especially women, for how many decades in the modern era since women went back into the workforce? Not to mention how minorities have also been underpaid and under-hired and promoted based on their ethnicity. So I don't see your argument here at all. It's not really any kind of better arrangement than a tipping structure is for certain service occupations.

And truthfully tipping only works for certain service jobs, not all jobs, that's clear. And as I've said before, at least with tipping you might get very generous tips and stingy ones, but the generous ones help to balance out the stingy or unfair/prejudiced ones. Relying on one stingy employer is worse (and who can trust employers to be anything BUT stingy, especially these days)?

BTW, I am VERY sure that the cleaning steward on my cruise makes a LOT more because of her tips than she would if she had to rely on her employer to make up that amount. To meet that standard we would all pay a LOT more for a cruise because the company would have to raise their rates quite a bit to cover the increased salaries. I am very sure they would not raise them enough, and even if they did it would affect their budgets and other services in a negative way, which would make the quality of the customer's experience go down overall.  I am also sure the level of service would suffer. The hospitality industry in particular relies on incentives to ensure excellent service and that would definitely be affected without it. So that's no real answer here.

BTW, the increased salaries of restaurant workers have already had an impact on menu prices and have made people less likely to dine, and who is going to suffer from that? The servers and all restaurant workers, whether in tipping or non-tipping positions. So much for making things "fairer". In the real world it doesn't work that way. That's contributing to restaurants closing and people tipping less, not more. So they'll end up  making less in the long run anyway than they would have under the old arrangement even with "unfair" tippers.

Speaking of stingy employers, when my husband first started driving a limo. he worked for a very big company. He didn't own his own limo. then, just drove a car from the company's fleet. He soon was able to buy his own limo. and work with companies that contracted him. Anyway, several years after leaving that first company a class action lawsuit was brought against it for screwing employees out of some of their wages. He really didn't pay much attention to it because he didn't think he stood to gain that much from it, but in the end he got a check for a whopping $12,000!  So much for relying on employers to be fair about paying their employees!

And in my time of watching restaurant makeover shows it's amazing how many restaurants I've heard of that try to cheat their employees out of their tips. Some of them would require employees to "pool" their tips and supposedly split them among them evenly, but then it's found out that they are "keeping their finger in the till" and owners are saving some or even most of that money for themselves!  This is more of a thing than people even know! Again, so much for employers being fair about paying anyone! This kind of abuse is especially common in businesses like restaurants and limo. companies, whose employees rely on tips. If they had to rely completely on the company for their salaries it would be even worse for them, I am SURE of that!

What gets me is that people routinely consult online customer reviews to choose products and services. Obviously not all those reviewers can be trusted to give a fair review, but people listen to them anyway. But at least with 2,000 reviews of something you have to figure that the happy customers more than balance out the unhappy ones so it tends to become fairer. And often when you consult the unhappy reviews of a truly great restaurant (or whatever), you find out that they are often in a small minority. So to extend that to tipping, people in general aren't THAT unfair when giving opinions or tips. Sure, some might be unfair but in the big picture it balances itself out.

Tipping isn't perfect, but employers, especially in those fields where tipping is a thing can be even less perfect. Most people that tip aren't assholes but a lot of employers unfortunately are. 

Edited July 13 by Yeah No

[crazycatlady58]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:03 PM, bluegirl147 said:

In restaurants I always tip because usually if something isn't right it's not the server's fault. However a couple months ago I was out at a restaurant and we were seated quickly. Restaurant was not busy.  Took the server forever to take our order. Then took forever to get our food.  She did not come and update us or say how sorry she was it was taking so long. After a half hour I stopped her as she was walking by and said if our food wasn't coming soon just cancel it. She said no it will be right out.  It was still another 15 minutes for it to be on our table.  She did not get a tip.  On my way out I told a couple waiting it wasn't worth their time to wait.

Another thing I see happening now is Door Dash orders are taking precedence.  Last year while waiting for a table along with quite a few other people and seeing that the dining room had lots of empty tables I wondered what the hold up was and then I saw Door Dash drivers coming in. They were walking up to the hostess stand and getting their orders in a matter of a few minutes. While the rest of us stood there for a lot longer than that waiting to be seated.  

BTW the orders the drivers were picking up looked to be very small.  So that restaurant was filling orders for what looked like one person and they had multiple families and couples waiting to buy food. Didn't make sense to me.

But the orders that Door Dash was picking up had already been placed and ready to go out. I am probably not understanding what you mean ( have not had breakfast and my brain is half asleep) should those orders sit and get cold while people in house are being seated? It sounds like the restaurant needs to hire more help.

[ECM1231]

I'm having trouble locating the thread about celebrity deaths. Can someone post a link? TIA

[Dimity]

33 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm having trouble locating the thread about celebrity deaths. Can someone post a link? TIA

Milestone moments...

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And in my time of watching restaurant makeover shows it's amazing how many restaurants I've heard of that try to cheat their employees out of their tips. Some of them would require employees to "pool" their tips and supposedly split them among them evenly, but then it's found out that they are "keeping their finger in the till" and owners are saving some or even most of that money for themselves!  This is more of a thing than people even know! Again, so much for employers being fair about paying anyone! This kind of abuse is especially common in businesses like restaurants and limo. companies, whose employees rely on tips. If they had to rely completely on the company for their salaries it would be even worse for them, I am SURE of that!

 

Pooling tips is in theory at least one way for places to tip their employees fairly. Places that pool tips tend to be ones who employ food runners to assist servers or places where no one server waits on an entire table for the length of their visit. It's a way to make sure everyone who has waited on a table gets their share of the tip. It can be a fair practice if everyone who's entitled to the share of the tip per the owner does their part. The restaurant I went to last night pools tips, and it works very well for everyone involved. The actual servers still get the lion's share of their tips, they just tip out their hostesses, bussers/food runners, and cooks. 

[bluegirl147]

6 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

But the orders that Door Dash was picking up had already been placed and ready to go out. I am probably not understanding what you mean ( have not had breakfast and my brain is half asleep) should those orders sit and get cold while people in house are being seated? It sounds like the restaurant needs to hire more help.

My point is there are so many Door Dash order that there is little time for customers in the restaurant so yes they should hire more employees.  

As far as pooling tips my late husband was a chef and he  never received tips but on high volume days and nights like Mother's Day and New Years Eve waitresses would sometimes give him a cut.  They knew a big part of their tips depended on how good the food was.

[athousandclowns]

There are a couple of topics I missed that I wish I could have contributed to . Hurtful friends etc.

i appreciate all the responses on tipping. I’ve always been a genious tipper and during Covid I overtipped I was so grateful for delivery and pick up etc. 

Last week I met my two best friends at a mall to escape the heat and we were at a food court and I went to I think it was a bakery type place near the table where we were sitting . I   ordered a bottled drink from one of the 2 employees. It was $4.50 and the other employee moved the tip jar from where it was on other side of the register at so it was in front of me. I didn’t put the 50 cents in and got a sarcastic have a wonderful day! 
pissed me off to say the least here in CA minimum wage goes from $16.50 to 17.95 for fast food servers.  . 
 

off topic but my nerves are shot and have a knot in my stomach. My ex husband is most likely dying and my son and a step son are dealing with it. They thought he was going to make it to one of those $9,000 a month different level care home after he was released from a “ skilled facility ” but he’s been going back and fourth to dialysis and ER and my son has had to drive him once!!!   What?  I talked a good deal to my son last night on the phone and he says his father will look good in morning then terrible in the evening. My son has profound hearing loss so we usually text or discussions like this in person. He mentioned the ex said something about me coming and talking about fun times in high school. I explained to my son I had talked to his father and messaged several times when I moved back to my hometown.   My son just thought I had resentment for crap he did when we were married. I’ve had to watch my 5 day old baby die and had to watch my husband die should I feel guilty that I don’t want to go? He said that the ex said it was no big deal. 

Half hour ago I texted my best friend and asked if he was home. No answer. 
Thanks everyone I believe my 50 minutes is up and boy do I wish medicare/ Blue Cross  would pay for a therapist. 

Edited July 16 by athousandclowns
So many mistakes

[ECM1231]

Oh my gosh, I don't even know what to say. Sending a great big hug to you, @athousandclowns.

[Dimity]

15 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

My son just thought I had resentment for crap he did when we were married. I’ve had to watch my 5 day old baby die and had to watch my husband die should I feel guilty that I don’t want to go? He said that the ex said it was no big deal. 

I've never had to watch one of my children die, I just cannot even begin to imagine the pain. 

I was with my mother 24/7 in the last week of her life and   I would rather not do it again for anyone else anytime soon. I   am glad I was there for her.  Being with an ex though?  If you had stayed close that would be one thing, but otherwise, wow, no.

Most people I know who have divorced are able to move on and stay civil no matter what led to the divorce but that by no means means they need to feel any guilt at all about not sitting by the bedside of an ex who is sick and/or dying.

 

Edited July 13 by Dimity

[StatisticalOutlier]

17 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

Thanks everyone I believe my 50 minutes is up and boy do I wish medicare/ Blue Cross  would pay for a therapist. 

Medicare includes mental health benefits.  If you have traditional Medicare, you just need to find a provider who accepts Medicare, and make an appointment.

But you mentioned Blue Cross.  Do you have a Blue Cross Medicare Advantage plan (instead of traditional Medicare)?  If so, you might be subject to pre-authorization requirements and you might have access to only a limited network of providers.  Check your plan documents.

(My brother is a psychologist and he lost count of how many people would call to make an appointment and he'd ask what insurance they had, and they'd say, "Medicare."  But upon further questioning, it would turn out they had a Medicare Advantage plan, and he was not in-network for any Advantage plans.  He accepted Medicare, but not Medicare Advantage.)

[StatisticalOutlier]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This kind of abuse is especially common in businesses like restaurants and limo. companies, whose employees rely on tips. If they had to rely completely on the company for their salaries it would be even worse for them, I am SURE of that!

How could it be worse?  It seems to me it's a lot easier for an employer to screw employees if there's tip money to be distributed than if he's paying his employees $18 for every hour the employee works.

Wage theft does happen, but it's almost always about not paying overtime, making employees work after they've clocked out, not paying them for being on call, etc.  Employees who are paid in tips aren't better protected from these infractions than employees who are paid directly by their employer, and in fact tipping introduces another way for wage theft to occur.

[Absolom]

31 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

(My brother is a psychologist and he lost count of how many people would call to make an appointment and he'd ask what insurance they had, and they'd say, "Medicare."  But upon further questioning, it would turn out they had a Medicare Advantage plan, and he was not in-network for any Advantage plans.  He accepted Medicare, but not Medicare Advantage.)

Thank you for the entire post.  I was going to have to type out something similar because Medicare does cover counseling.

[Quof]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

there are so many Door Dash order that there is little time for customers in the restaurant

To the employee who answers the phone when you are standing right in front of them, in the middle of your transaction:  

"I got off my ass and drove all the way here. Why does the guy who just picked up the phone get priority over me?" 

[Mindthinkr]

Re tipping mechanics. 
I was at the Audi dealership last week. They charge $195/hour for their mechanic’s services. 

I cannot afford to tip them any extra. 

[Ancaster]

I have a bird feeder on my balcony.  I've been opening the door to the balcony when I get up to get some fresh air in before it gets up in the 90s/100s again.  There is no screen.  This morning one of the finches decided she needed to check herself out in my bathroom mirror.

It was a little alarming, but thanks to a lifetime of good role modelling by my parents (rescuers of birds, beasts, and spiders), I managed to help her back outside.

Fun fact: it's rather disconcerting to hear a bird chirping inside your flat for no good reason.  Until you discover the good reason.

Edited July 13 by Ancaster

[Absolom]

There is a hummingbird that lives near my house and visits frequently.  It likes to fly in the lawn sprinkler either to get a drink or a shower or maybe both.  It's so funny to see it race to my yard when it sees the water going.

[Anela]

54 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

I have a bird feeder on my balcony.  I've been opening the door to the balcony when I get up to get some fresh air in before it gets up in the 90s/100s again.  There is no screen.  This morning one of the finches decided she needed to check herself out in my bathroom mirror.

It was a little alarming, but thanks to a lifetime of good role modelling by my parents (rescuers of birds, beasts, and spiders), I managed to help her back outside.

Fun fact: it's rather disconcerting to hear a bird chirping inside your flat for no good reason.  Until you discover the good reason.

I took this picture May 2020, after waking up to a bird flying around the room, and bumping into things. It flew into the bathroom, and stunned itself. :( So, I was able to pick it up, after opening the blinds and the window. It flew out, when it was okay.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

Thanks everyone I believe my 50 minutes is up and boy do I wish medicare/ Blue Cross  would pay for a therapist. 

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Do you have a Blue Cross Medicare Advantage plan (instead of traditional Medicare)?  If so, you might be subject to pre-authorization requirements and you might have access to only a limited network of providers.  Check your plan documents.

(My brother is a psychologist and he lost count of how many people would call to make an appointment and he'd ask what insurance they had, and they'd say, "Medicare."  But upon further questioning, it would turn out they had a Medicare Advantage plan, and he was not in-network for any Advantage plans.  He accepted Medicare, but not Medicare Advantage.)

FWIW, my Medicare Advantage plan is Excellus Medicare Blue Choice Access (PPO) and there were plenty of therapists that accepted it. There's less than $20 left over for me to pay for each full hour session. I do video. I'm not sure it's helping a lot, but I get at least one new viewpoint or suggestion per session, which I'm doing about once a month now, but I had no trouble getting once per week. 

9 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm having trouble locating the thread about celebrity deaths. Can someone post a link? TIA

8 hours ago, Dimity said:

Milestone moments...

5 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

off topic but

Threads with cutesy or obscure titles can be hard to find, especially if you don't know or can't remember the title.
So, @athousandclowns, if you were looking for these:
There's a thread titled:
Stress, Depression, Anxiety and other Mental Health-related things

And there's:
Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

And:
Medicare, Supplemental, Advantage, and other Insurances, Oh My Aching Wallet
and I'm guilty of naming this one👆
 

Edited July 14 by shapeshifter

[StatisticalOutlier]

I think tip pooling is unfair to customers if they don't know that tips are pooled.  If a customer tips his waitress $50 to reward her for having big breasts, is it fair that he doesn't know she's not actually getting all of it, and in fact some of his hard-earned money is going into the pocket of the Mexican busboy who's here taking jobs from Americans?

Also, fun fact about automatic gratuities like the ones for parties of six or more:  The IRS declared them a service charge, not a gratuity.  And just like with all service charges, the employer can keep any or all of it. 

Washington State actually passed a law that requires the restaurant to disclose what percentage the restaurant keeps and what percentage the servers get.  Which tells you there's an issue with how restaurants handle service charges. 

[Mondrianyone]

17 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

If a customer tips his waitress $50 to reward her for having big breasts, is it fair that he doesn't know she's not actually getting all of it, and in fact some of his hard-earned money is going into the pocket of the Mexican busboy who's here taking jobs from Americans?

This is my idea of pure poetic justice.

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

This is my idea of pure poetic justice.

Yeah, couldn't happen to a nicer guy.  But when you look at it on principle, people should be entitled to know where their voluntary contributions are going.

And think of the poor waitress.  Pooling tips is allegedly designed to promote teamwork, but her breasts have nothing to do with that.  She really shouldn't have to share if someone appreciates something that is solely hers.

[crazycatlady58]

15 hours ago, Quof said:

To the employee who answers the phone when you are standing right in front of them, in the middle of your transaction:  

"I got off my ass and drove all the way here. Why does the guy who just picked up the phone get priority over me?" 

I work retail and I answer the phone while I am helping a customer. First the continual ringing is annoying. Also I feel like they are a customer also even if they are not in the store. Sometimes it just a quick question “ What are your hours?”. If it is anything thing more complicated I say “I am helping someone let me call you back”. I always apologize to the customer I am with and say “Thank you for your patience.”

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Pooling tips is in theory at least one way for places to tip their employees fairly. Places that pool tips tend to be ones who employ food runners to assist servers or places where no one server waits on an entire table for the length of their visit. It's a way to make sure everyone who has waited on a table gets their share of the tip. It can be a fair practice if everyone who's entitled to the share of the tip per the owner does their part. The restaurant I went to last night pools tips, and it works very well for everyone involved. The actual servers still get the lion's share of their tips, they just tip out their hostesses, bussers/food runners, and cooks. 

Pooling tips is a great idea in theory but it gives restaurant owners access to the money which gives them the ability to lie about how much there is of it and keep some of it. That's the only problem with it. If tips are given directly to the servers, owners don't have that access to the money.

16 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

How could it be worse?  It seems to me it's a lot easier for an employer to screw employees if there's tip money to be distributed than if he's paying his employees $18 for every hour the employee works.

If owners have no access to the tips at all and they're given directly to the servers they have no way of screwing their employees out of it. Unfortunately pooling tips involves giving the owner control over tip money and the ability to lie about how much was collected and keep some of it for themselves. And this happens more than people think. And other than complying with minimum wage rules as they apply to restaurant servers in their states, owners are under no obligation to pay their servers a decent salary that would fairly make up for any elimination of tips. And my contention is that many of them would pay the least amount legally possible and that amount would never equal the amount servers would make with a lower salary and tips. Unless they're forced to work out how much their servers would make with tips on the average and give them a salary to equal that, they're never going to pay that much.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I think tip pooling is unfair to customers if they don't know that tips are pooled.  If a customer tips his waitress $50 to reward her for having big breasts, is it fair that he doesn't know she's not actually getting all of it, and in fact some of his hard-earned money is going into the pocket of the Mexican busboy who's here taking jobs from Americans?

Also, fun fact about automatic gratuities like the ones for parties of six or more:  The IRS declared them a service charge, not a gratuity.  And just like with all service charges, the employer can keep any or all of it. 

Washington State actually passed a law that requires the restaurant to disclose what percentage the restaurant keeps and what percentage the servers get.  Which tells you there's an issue with how restaurants handle service charges. 

Yes, I agree with you on all points yet unfortunately where I live and in a lot of places owners are under no obligation to tell customers when tips are pooled. My husband and I always ask just to be sure. We would rather give the money directly to the server in cash because sometimes the abuse happens even when customers add tips to a credit card receipt in a situation where there's no pooling and servers supposedly keep their tips. Dishonest owners bank on the fact that their employees aren't keeping track of their tip earnings on credit card receipts and will shortchange them on the amount. I wish there were more laws around this issue to make tipping fairer and to prevent tip abuse by owners. If tips were pooled and shortchanging servers out of some of it could be prevented it would probably be a good solution.

[shapeshifter]

Just sharing in case anyone wants a distraction from the unmentionable news or the subject of tipping:

I went to look at a rental 10 minutes from my daughter, son-in-law, and grandbabies. 
I currently own a condo that I could sell in a week, and while rent would be more monthly than HOA etc., I might almost break even if I invest the money from the sale of the condo and only rent for a few years. But never mind that.
It was built by an architect in 1969, and is one of a group of "pods" nestled in the woods but close to conveniences and the Erie Canal walkway. Very Buckminster Fuller-esque, for those who are familiar. 

A very sweet, young, but disorganized and uninformed "realtor" was half an hour late showing it to me on Friday. She is the daughter of the realtor managing the rental. Along the private driveway to the property, a friendly neighbor directed me to continue to the rental and accurately described the landlady as an "84-year-old pistol" (hidden meaning later revealed: ready to go off at a moment's notice regarding any perceived annoyance).

I returned yesterday to have a second look and possibly seal the deal, in spite of the landlady.
But here's the email I wound up sending this morning:

Quote

Hello [young realtor],

I’m copying this to your Dad in case something unforeseeable has happened to you.

Yesterday I brought my daughter and son-in-law with me to see [XXX XXX Road] to get their opinions.
I brought a blank check.

I texted and called you when you didn’t show up for our 12:45 appointment.
You have still not replied to either, nor have you sent the application to my email as you promised.

Yesterday afternoon, after waiting until 1:15, we knocked on the landlady’s door.
She said we could go into the rental, that it was unlocked.
About 25 minutes later, she came out calling for you and was angry at me and my daughter that we were still there.
She was angry that we had turned on lights and air conditioning.
She hysterically demanded to know what I was doing.
I was holding a tape measure over the (old-model) washer and dryer, and explained I was measuring because I had my own.
This seemed to mollify her a bit.
But she was still upset and said we had to leave immediately.

You said if I wanted the rental, I could have it.
But now I can only conclude that either you no longer want to have me there as a tenant,
or perhaps you and your Dad no longer want to deal with that rental and the owner,
or some catastrophe has befallen you.

 

Edited July 15 by shapeshifter