S03.E06: Chapter Twenty Two - Guns for Hire

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I’ve come to except that the droids are sentient in Star Wars. It’s impossible to explain some things otherwise. 

IMO, the Anzellans confirmed this when Din asked if they could fix IG-11 without the part they need.  "Yes, but IG no think."  

5 hours ago, paigow said:

If your friends are discussing Clone Wars and Rebels, those events are in the past [relative to this show] so not technically spoilers - more like educated guesses

Good point.  I suppose I should say that it's their speculations based on their knowledge that are the spoilers.  For example, they are convinced that they know what happened to Moff Gideon (as I'm sure many others are as well).  But I'm going to watch to find out!  Except that now I know what they predict...

[paigow]

Moff Gideon has never appeared in Movie Episodes 1 - 9, Clone Wars & Rebels. I have not read any comics / novels so maybe he was there like Thrawn. AFAIK  he is a character created for this series.

Edited April 8, 2023 by paigow

[Athena]

5 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Random obscure laws on the planet to forbid them from using the Mandalorian force already at their beck and call was just dumb.

 

4 hours ago, merylinkid said:

actually that one is rooted in history.   At least earth history.   Rome had a law that forbade the army from entering the city, or even crossing the Rubicon.   that is why it was a BIG deal when Ceasar did it.   The US has the posse comitatus law which prevents the military from being used as a police force except in EXTREME circumstances.   So that one made sense to me and not just a plot device.

Another more recent example: Japan's post-World War II constitution restricted them from having a military force and engaging in war. It has operated a Japanese Self-Defense Forces but it is very limited in what it can operate through its military. Germany received restrictions as well and most were lifted except one limiting total number of their personnel.

[HelloooKitty]

I once saw a post that said “Jack Black is the only human who could show up literally anywhere in any context and I wouldn’t question it for a second. I could get abducted by aliens and he could be wandering around the space ship with bugles (the chips) on the ends of his fingers and I’d just be like “that’s some classic Jack Black, there!” “
 

I think this episode proves this statement. Especially since my reaction, immediately upon hearing his voice, was “is that Jack Black? Huh. Sure, why not?!”

[Dobian]

Basically 35 minutes of filler until they finally got to what the episode was really about.  But we got to see Jack Black and Christopher Lloyd, so there was that.

The whole big red button thing was pretty ridiculous.  If that's all it takes to turn all the droids into killer robots and that thing is just sitting out in the open, any janitor accidentally leaning on it while wiping off the desk would trigger a catastrophe lol.

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Human brains are not finished until we are around 22-23.   Given an average lifespan of 80 years, that's one-quarter of your life with a brain that is still learning things like impulse control and YOU CAN DIE IF YOU DO STUPID STUFF.   No seriously, this is actual science.

And there's also different levels of development in how the brain is able to process stuff. Most humans don't have clear memories from before they were 2 or so because the brain isn't developed in a way that stores and processes memories so they can be accessed later. Very little that a person experiences during that part of life is going to stick. Maybe big lessons like "touch the sharp thing and it hurts" might stick, but experience isn't going to affect you the way it will a few years later or a few years after that. Some of that brain development has to happen before language development, and there's also a lot of physical development that has to happen for speech, having the control over lips and tongue to make the right speech sounds. It's been interesting seeing the increase of use of sign language for babies and toddlers, since one of the reasons for the "terrible twos" is the frustration over knowing what they want to communicate but lacking the physical ability to put those thoughts into words and express them. There's more control over hands to make gestures than over all the parts that go into speech, so if they learn basic gestures to communicate their wants and needs before they can talk, there may be fewer meltdowns.

So, depending on how this species develops physically and mentally, Grogu may have some fairly sophisticated thought processes in some areas but lack the physical ability to form speech. His babbling is getting a bit more expressive. He's doing the "imitate speech sounds" thing instead of just chirping. His species' physiology may make speaking more complicated. He can learn things and make choices but still lacks impulse control and some reasoning.

My question is why they took a child that young for Jedi training. We've seen that they did take small children and thought Anakin was too old to be starting at about 10, but taking a kid who's too young to actually learn much of anything seems a bit extreme. Which makes me wonder where Grogu's parents are. Was he taken away from his family as an infant (even if he was 20 years old at that time) or was he an orphan and the Jedi took him in since he'd been identified as Force-sensitive? As long-lived as his species is, could his parents still be alive? Or can they not send him back home because the Empire would know the families of former Jedi and track him back there?

[MissLucas]

In my opinion the show is playing fast and lose with Grogu's thought processes/mental development. One moment his hijinks are played for laughs and he's treated like a mischievous cat on the other he's allowed to make pretty important life decisions on his own (leaving jedi training after having specifically asked for jedi guidance). We've seen that the Jedi take kids young (like the Jesuits) but not at an age where they can't be trained. So either he really suffers from PTSD (as has been implied by show too) and has repressed not just memories but also abilities that can surface at whim or the writing for his mental maturity is adjusted to plot needs.

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

My question is why they took a child that young for Jedi training. We've seen that they did take small children and thought Anakin was too old to be starting at about 10, but taking a kid who's too young to actually learn much of anything seems a bit extreme. Which makes me wonder where Grogu's parents are. Was he taken away from his family as an infant (even if he was 20 years old at that time) or was he an orphan and the Jedi took him in since he'd been identified as Force-sensitive? As long-lived as his species is, could his parents still be alive? Or can they not send him back home because the Empire would know the families of former Jedi and track him back there?

It seems like Yoda's species is very rare but powerful. Given at the time of the prequels, with a Jedi council, that a 10 year old was too old, with Yoda himself not really ever on board with Anakin, I would say this is par for the course. When Anakin-->Vader before the suit when on the rampage, he killed a ton of kids. 

If a ten year old is past for any training, when do they take them? 3? 5? For all we know, Yoda took Grogu himself.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

In my opinion the show is playing fast and loose with Grogu's thought processes/mental development. One moment his hijinks are played for laughs and he's treated like a mischievous cat on the other he's allowed to make pretty important life decisions on his own (leaving jedi training after having specifically asked for jedi guidance).

One important factor that the show has done a poor job of making clear is that there was a time jump between season 2 & 3.  Favereau has said that Grogu was training with Luke for 1-2 years. The show only hints at the time jump through things like Navarro’s growth. 

I feel like in the first two seasons he was being written close to an older toddler in behavior and now as a young school age kid and the fact that he’s not using verbal language still skews perception of him younger. My guess is that he is now the equivalent to the younglings we have seen training in Clone Wars. Still a child but at the point where he can more actively train. 

 

19 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If a ten year old is past for any training, when do they take them? 3? 5? For all we know, Yoda took Grogu himself.

Ahsoka was 3. 

[DoctorAtomic]

You're proving my point then. The Jedi take them as young as they can, so it stands to reason finding a rare baby Yoda, they're just going to take him. 

 

[paigow]

13 hours ago, Dobian said:

The whole big red button thing was pretty ridiculous. 

[Kel Varnsen]

So I was thinking about Christopher Lloyd's characters and if he is still a full blown separatist supporter like 30 years later, does that mean people in Star Wars never figured out that the Republic vs the Separatists was just a big con and both sides were being manipulated by the emperor?

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Check my avatar.  Yes, this was Lost in Space level of goofiness. 😆

[Shanna Marie]

18 hours ago, MissLucas said:

One moment his hijinks are played for laughs and he's treated like a mischievous cat on the other he's allowed to make pretty important life decisions on his own (leaving jedi training after having specifically asked for jedi guidance).

That aspect of the whole Jedi thing has always made me a bit suspicious. It's not so great when high school seniors are expected to pick a career field before they go to college. Asking a toddler to make a major choice between life paths is utterly ridiculous. I kept expecting the sequel trilogy to bring up some of the issues with the Jedi, given that they made a big deal out of how bad it was that kids were taken to be made into Stormtroopers while the Jedi did the same thing, though it was a bit more voluntary, but how can a kid that age make that kind of choice to give up their family, parents, etc.? Maybe that was part of the failure of Luke's Jedi academy. So I hope they deal with that in the TV series in between trilogies.

18 hours ago, MissLucas said:

So either he really suffers from PTSD (as has been implied by show too) and has repressed not just memories but also abilities that can surface at whim or the writing for his mental maturity is adjusted to plot needs.

I think another issue that may come into play is what Grogu experienced between being rescued from the Jedi temple and encountering Din. Children don't just develop in a vacuum. They learn from the people around them, their surroundings, and their experiences, so a lot of what he would know would depend on what he had modeled for him and what they had to do. He seems to be basically a feral toddler. Was he socialized at all or was he fending for himself? If no one has talked to him for a long time, that would affect his language development. A lot of his "cat" behavior comes down to food (the frog lady's eggs, stealing the kid's cookies). Was he in a place where food was scarce and he had to grab what he could get from his surroundings? If he learned to scavenge all food sources, then it might be harder to make the leap from frog eggs=valuable food for a hungry child to frog eggs=the passenger's loved offspring. Until we see more of those blanks filled in, we don't know what might be affecting his behavior.

[Megras]

I always figured the Jedi taking younglings was to "prevent them falling to the dark side" and once trained they did not have to stay in the Order. At least that would be how they justified it internally. Given what an ill-disciplined Force user can do it makes a certain sort of sense.

[DoctorAtomic]

There's no way the Jedi would train kids and just let them loose is they wanted to leave. 

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I was thinking about Christopher Lloyd's characters and if he is still a full blown separatist supporter like 30 years later, does that mean people in Star Wars never figured out that the Republic vs the Separatists was just a big con and both sides were being manipulated by the emperor?

I'm not sure how most people in the galaxy would know that. He said Dooku was a visionary. Dooku was a stooge and he died, so he's not saying anything. 

Once the Empire took over, Palpatine probably put out the official word that he 'won', but by then the rebels were focused on rebelling. What happened before probably wasn't a priority. 

Unless you're close to the political sphere, I doubt anyone knows what really happened. 

[scottiB]

After listening to a few podcasts before watching, I was expecting to dislike this episode. Just finished, and I loved it. LOVED IT. 

They can get back to grim serious for the next two episodes. 

[FnkyChkn34]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

I inherited one of these when I took a new job (it was just left in my desk drawer).  I thought it was broken until one day it just started saying "that was easy" all on its own. 🤣

Edited April 9, 2023 by FnkyChkn34
fixed typo

[paigow]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think another issue that may come into play is what Grogu experienced between being rescued from the Jedi temple and encountering Din.

All those dudes that Din & IG-11 killed were probably hired to fly Grogu off Naboo... Maybe Grogu will exhibit their speech patterns when he starts talking...

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not sure how most people in the galaxy would know that. He said Dooku was a visionary. Dooku was a stooge and he died, so he's not saying anything. 

Once the Empire took over, Palpatine probably put out the official word that he 'won', but by then the rebels were focused on rebelling. What happened before probably wasn't a priority. 

Unless you're close to the political sphere, I doubt anyone knows what really happened. 

Not sure if it would be possible, but I would hope that even if any kind of investigative journalism wasn't happening during the emperor's reign, that maybe the rebels had some kind of propaganda/pr division. And even if neither of those happened I would think that after the emperor died all the truth about the bad shit he did would come out. Especially with all those weaselly imperial officers who would probably spill everything for the chance to be rehabilitated rather than put on trial.

[Hanahope]

19 hours ago, Megras said:

I always figured the Jedi taking younglings was to "prevent them falling to the dark side" and once trained they did not have to stay in the Order. At least that would be how they justified it internally. Given what an ill-disciplined Force user can do it makes a certain sort of sense.

isn't part of the reason so that the children will not develop too much of an emotional attachment to parents, especially a mother?  its been a long time since i was Phantom Menace, but wasn't part of the criticism with starting training for Anakin was that he was 'too old' (i.e. already too attached to his mom, which ended up feeding his hate and led him down the dark side)?

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Especially with all those weaselly imperial officers who would probably spill everything for the chance to be rehabilitated rather than put on trial.

I think that would happen, but the original question was whether people know the Separatist/Trade War was a con by Palpatine to make the Empire. 

At the time of the Rebellion, they might have had a propaganda division, but is that what they're going to be putting out? The Empire is doing a ton worse by then. Did they even know Palpatine was Sith? Windu found out first hand, but he's not around. Yoda fought him and then took off. 

I'm even wondering if senators like Bail truly even knew what was going on. Sure, there's truth to 'Palpatine took advantage of the galaxy in disarray to consolidate power and make himself Emperor." That's really only scratching the surface though. 

Christopher Lloyd said Dooku was a 'visionary'. He certainly had no idea what was going on, and I think that might actually be the norm. 

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

but wasn't part of the criticism with starting training for Anakin was that he was 'too old' (i.e. already too attached to his mom, which ended up feeding his hate and led him down the dark side)?

Yoda said Anakin was too old. Given we know that Anakin was way more powerful than Yoda, I'm wondering if Yoda's opinion isn't entirely altruistic. What's the alternative? The most powerful force user of all time is left untrained? 

[paigow]

41 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm wondering if Yoda's opinion isn't entirely altruistic. What's the alternative? The most powerful force user of all time is left untrained? 

Kill him before his power grows... Like The Omen

[Guest]

 

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Yoda said Anakin was too old. Given we know that Anakin was way more powerful than Yoda, I'm wondering if Yoda's opinion isn't entirely altruistic. What's the alternative? The most powerful force user of all time is left untrained? 

The problem with his age was that it meant he had more attachments and fears making him more susceptible to the dark side.

The idea of not training him was that his powers would never develop and he would just grow up to be someone with heightened reflexes and senses. It’s the same argument Ahsoka made when she decided not to train Grogu. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I understand that's what they said, but I'm not really buying it. We know from hindsight that the rigidity of the council was the real root cause. I could argue that allowing him to be promoted to Master may have avoided all this mess. 

Besides, who's to say a fallen Jedi or someone nuts like Maul doesn't happen upon him and train him as a Sith anyway? Maul literally tried to do that with someone else. Given how uniquely powerful he was, just leaving him and hoping he doesn't develop seems shortsighted. 

It's kind of classist on the council's part. Let's just leave him alone to be poor on a garbage planet where his mother is a slave and he'll amount to nothing. I mean, they could have brought the mother along. 

I'm not sure Ahsoka said anything about Grogu's powers not developing, but she clearly didn't think it was a good idea separating him from Mando.

Edited April 10, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

We know from hindsight that the rigidity of the council was the real root cause. I could argue that allowing him to be promoted to Master may have avoided all this mess. 

I disagree. I think that Anakin’s own issues were the root cause which were exasperated by the rigidity of the Jedi Order telling him to bury his feelings rather than helping him to process them. I don’t think that promoting him (undeservedly) to master would have stopped anything at that point. It gave Palpatine another way to manipulate him but ultimately Anakin turned because he was terrified of losing Padme like he lost his mother. 

13 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not sure Ahsoka said anything about Grogu's powers not developing, but she clearly didn't think it was a good idea separating him from Mando.

Ahsoka: His attachment to you makes him vulnerable to his fears. His anger.

Din: All the more reason to train him.

Ahsoka: No. I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us. I will not start this child down that path. Better to let his abilities fade. 

It’s the same argument over whether or not to train Anakin. 

[Shanna Marie]

23 minutes ago, Dani said:

I disagree. I think that Anakin’s own issues were the root cause which were exasperated by the rigidity of the Jedi Order telling him to bury his feelings rather than helping him to process them. I don’t think that promoting him (undeservedly) to master would have stopped anything at that point. It gave Palpatine another way to manipulate him but ultimately Anakin turned because he was terrified of losing Padme like he lost his mother. 

Yeah, if he's someone prone to going dark because of not being on the Council, then he's not a good candidate for the Council. I wouldn't even say that Anakin just turned because he was terrified of losing Padme. Lots of people suffer loss without going on a murder spree. That was the final trigger and a weak spot that made him easy to manipulate, but it wouldn't have worked if he hadn't had other flaws. I think the main problem was that they refused to see his issues and their rules meant he couldn't talk about his fears and concerns with anyone other than the person who was manipulating him. Obi-Wan brought up his arrogance to Yoda, who brushed off his concerns. There was also the problem of assigning a traumatized prodigy they knew might have some issues to someone who was essentially a student teacher, right out of his own training, without any real backup.

Given that Luke had, at most, a month or so of training (depending on how long it took the Falcon to make it to Bespin without a hyperdrive) that started in his 20s after he grew up with a fairly normal childhood with an aunt and uncle who functioned as parents to him and he not only resisted all Vader's efforts to turn him to the dark side but actually managed to turn Vader, I'd think the Jedi mode of training needs some serious questioning, and Luke of all people shouldn't have tried to perpetuate that model. It helps with Grogu that he has a long lifespan, but maybe his model of some early training to learn to manage his powers, then getting to spend his childhood with a father figure in a way that allows him to form healthy attachments and get that kind of guidance growing up, and then possibly returning to Jedi training later when he's old enough to make that decision with more knowledge, maturity and experience could be a better plan. Have a Force Kindergarten for kids identified as having talent so they learn about it and get some control while still having a healthy family life, then do more intensive training later. Ripping kids away from their families and allowing them no attachments while they're trained as warriors is a recipe for psychological problems.

[AncientNewbie]

There was a lot of Star Wars cheese in this one, but I have to say I liked it. Silly cameos and side quests that touch on the state of the non-warring planets are always fodder for my SW-obsessed self. 

That said, Jack Black being a rehab'd Imperial officer that was some sort of quartermaster-type just brings into sight all the stuff about the First Order operating shadily beneath their noses. Too coincidental, which i see as plot error, if not intended to be going there. 

I hate when I dip into my stock of handwavium and start creating character motivations, but I can see why Bo may have liked wearing the helmet and being part of the code-bound more than having to be a warrior princess and look over her shoulder all the time. Sure, she's defeated Woves (this time) but how often does he come back at her? What about everyone else in the force? If the others liked making money on simple retrieval missions instead of warring for a cause, I can see her having ongoing problems. Of course, it could all just be neon paint on the wall that the adopted Mandos are true to the death while the Mando by blood have gotten lazy about it all and that's simply all we're meant to take away. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think the main problem was that they refused to see his issues and their rules meant he couldn't talk about his fears and concerns with anyone other than the person who was manipulating him.

That's basically what I was getting at. I think the whole mess could have been avoided. I think we're in agreement that the council really stepped in it. I used the Master issue just for reference, not a sum total of a solution that would have fixed everything. Allowing Jedi to get married might have also helped. They're all kind of lucky Anakin did anyway. 

I'm just generally skeptical that inherently powerful people like Anakin or (we're assuming) Grogu would just have their abilities fade away without training. And, as I said, there's a reasonable scenario in which they do get trained regardless. I mean, as a kid, he was blowing everyone away in the pod races, so hoping for powers to 'just fade away' is wishful at best. 

Though I agree with Ahsoka's reasoning that not severing Grogu's stability with Mando is the right decision. 

She's my favorite character ever, but even her 'either/or' logical basis is flawed, and without too much effort, there's been credible alternatives suggested here. 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[kwnyc]

On 4/6/2023 at 4:25 PM, RunningMarket said:

Gotta love how Din knows exactly how to speak to the Ugnaughts properly in order to get the information the seek, and then proceeds to just kick at random droids. "I found the malfunctioning one."

Din has a real facility with both language AND communication, and it's saved his ass more than once.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

Din has a real facility with both language AND communication

Except Jawas that mock him.. he literally tries to roast them...

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Yeah, if he's someone prone to going dark because of not being on the Council, then he's not a good candidate for the Council. 

But it is OK for him to have a Padewan???

[Ilovepie]

On 4/5/2023 at 1:44 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Fun seeing Axe Woves (still the best name ever!)

It's definitely up there. Star Wars has all the best names. My personal favorites: Lux Bonteri (Clone Wars) and Cad Bane......

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Yeah, if he's someone prone to going dark because of not being on the Council, then he's not a good candidate for the Council. 

But it is OK for him to have a Padewan???

That was another poor decision. Put the guy they know has issues and who was trained by a student teacher in charge of training someone else while he's still young and inexperienced. That's gonna go great. Their whole training process needed some serious revamping, maybe more layers and failsafes. Having a kind of training buddy who's still young and who can be in an older sibling role might be good, but then there needs to be close supervision by someone older and more experienced. If Anakin had had a father/mother figure among the Jedi in addition to a big brother figure, he'd have been a lot less vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations. At least with Ahsoka, Obi-Wan was there to keep an eye on both of them. With Anakin, it didn't help that it seems he skipped the classroom teaching the younger kids got and went straight to being a Padawan, so he didn't even really have peers among the Jedi, no friends or buddies other than the person who trained him and the person he trained. This is yet another reason Grogu made the right choice. As the only student, he'd have been really isolated, and I don't think it would have been healthy for him to be by himself with just Luke and R2, and Ahsoka occasionally popping in. At least with Din, he gets to interact with a variety of people, so he's better socialized. There are regulars in his life like Greef, Pelli, Bo-Katan, and the other Mandalorians, and then he gets to meet other people along the way, like the Duchess. That seems a lot healthier than the isolation of Jedi training, especially the way Luke was doing it (and we know how that ended up working out for him).

[DoctorAtomic]

32 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

If Anakin had had a father/mother figure among the Jedi in addition to a big brother figure, he'd have been a lot less vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations.

He kind of did with Qui-Gon for like half a day. 

[Affogato]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:36 AM, Dani said:

We know he can communicate telepathically so that might be the norm for his species and verbal communication comes later. 

I’ve come to except that the droids are sentient in Star Wars. It’s impossible to explain some things otherwise. 

Of course the droids are sentient. 

19 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That was another poor decision. Put the guy they know has issues and who was trained by a student teacher in charge of training someone else while he's still young and inexperienced. That's gonna go great. Their whole training process needed some serious revamping, maybe more layers and failsafes. Having a kind of training buddy who's still young and who can be in an older sibling role might be good, but then there needs to be close supervision by someone older and more experienced. If Anakin had had a father/mother figure among the Jedi in addition to a big brother figure, he'd have been a lot less vulnerable to Palpatine's manipulations. At least with Ahsoka, Obi-Wan was there to keep an eye on both of them. With Anakin, it didn't help that it seems he skipped the classroom teaching the younger kids got and went straight to being a Padawan, so he didn't even really have peers among the Jedi, no friends or buddies other than the person who trained him and the person he trained. This is yet another reason Grogu made the right choice. As the only student, he'd have been really isolated, and I don't think it would have been healthy for him to be by himself with just Luke and R2, and Ahsoka occasionally popping in. At least with Din, he gets to interact with a variety of people, so he's better socialized. There are regulars in his life like Greef, Pelli, Bo-Katan, and the other Mandalorians, and then he gets to meet other people along the way, like the Duchess. That seems a lot healthier than the isolation of Jedi training, especially the way Luke was doing it (and we know how that ended up working out for him).

My impression is that they assume Grogu is going to lose the majority of his force skills. Like someone who has the potential to become a great singer he may always be able to carry a tune around a campfire, but will never develop the range and depth to sing Opera. We saw this happen with Leia, since she was never trained. Some potential was there and she was able to call on it once or twice in great need, but it never amounted to a lot. Given his trauma and his reaction to it this may be a good thing, overall, as Ahsoka says.

I don't think about it a lot, but I think that Star Wars, meaning the movies, at different times shows different things about the force. On the one hand, doing bad sith things rots your teeth. On the other hand, in the Last Jedi, it is a totality which must be faced, both sides, to achieve a whole.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Of course the droids are sentient. 

There are just so many implications from this. Although I guess it’s would be no different than how the clones were treated. 

[kimaken]

As someone who saw the original SW trilogy in the theaters back in the 70's and 80's, didn't follow the prequels or sequels, nor any of the animated SW shows, I quickly fell for the Mandalorian--it was great to have a new show based in the SW universe but not reliant on the SW characters...at least in Season 1. Even bringing in a few in Season 2 wasn't that much to take and I soon learned about these characters through forum discussions here and through YouTube.

But I can't help wondering if the showrunners' plan all along was to start this new show and then if it was received well, turn it into a live action continuation of the Clone Wars/Rebels series? 

I miss the kick-ass Mando of the first 2 seasons (and the last 2 eps of Book of Boba Fett).

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

There are just so many implications from this. Although I guess it’s would be no different than how the clones were treated. 

Star wars is rife with slavery and indentured servitude. Also cute droids like r2d2 were presented as real people probably without thought for the implications. 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, kimaken said:

But I can't help wondering if the showrunners' plan all along was to start this new show and then if it was received well, turn it into a live action continuation of the Clone Wars/Rebels series?

That looks like what Ahsoka will be. 

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, Affogato said:

My impression is that they assume Grogu is going to lose the majority of his force skills. Like someone who has the potential to become a great singer he may always be able to carry a tune around a campfire, but will never develop the range and depth to sing Opera. We saw this happen with Leia, since she was never trained. Some potential was there and she was able to call on it once or twice in great need, but it never amounted to a lot. Given his trauma and his reaction to it this may be a good thing, overall, as Ahsoka says.

One thing I would love is if Grogu became a super strong force wielding Mandalorian. Because one thing I wish the movies explored more was how the Jedi don't have like the exclusive rights to being good guys who use the force. Because not only does the structure and rules of the Jedi order have major issues but there also should be other ways to develop those skills. I mean I know that the original movies were based on old time matinee serials where the only option was good guy or bad guy but I thought the series might have moved past that. The Last Jedi touched on it a bit and there was Donnie Yen's character in Rogue One but there hasn't been much other than that. 

Plus if Grogu has the force but doesn't become a Jedi he won't need a light saber. Which is good because every time I see a Jedi block a laser blast with one all I can think of is how if the shooter had an actual gun (where you can't see the bullets) it becomes a lot harder to block.

6 hours ago, Dani said:

There are just so many implications from this. Although I guess it’s would be no different than how the clones were treated. 

Right from the start it seemed they never had those implications sorted out. I think it was the Family Guy Star Wars parody which pointed out how in the beginning of a New Hope it was stupid not to shoot the escape pod with R2 and C-3PO in it, because in Star Wars world the pod itself could be alive. 

4 hours ago, kimaken said:

As someone who saw the original SW trilogy in the theaters back in the 70's and 80's, didn't follow the prequels or sequels, nor any of the animated SW shows, I quickly fell for the Mandalorian--it was great to have a new show based in the SW universe but not reliant on the SW characters...at least in Season 1. Even bringing in a few in Season 2 wasn't that much to take and I soon learned about these characters through forum discussions here and through YouTube.

But I can't help wondering if the showrunners' plan all along was to start this new show and then if it was received well, turn it into a live action continuation of the Clone Wars/Rebels series? 

I miss the kick-ass Mando of the first 2 seasons (and the last 2 eps of Book of Boba Fett).

That has been my biggest complaint about the show so far. It is like the indie film director who all of the sudden gets a big budget and more exposure and instead of making something something new decides to continue the stories they made when they were doing little indie movies. It feels like the same thing here, now that they have the big budget and attention, they (well I guess Filoni) are reliving/reworking what they wanted to do in the animation world with more money and more attention. And I agree with @DoctorAtomicthat the Ahsoka show will probably be the worst for that.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm actually only looking forward to Ahoksa because of that. Thrawn was the only real protagonist in this entire franchise. 

28 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

One thing I would love is if Grogu became a super strong force wielding Mandalorian. Because one thing I wish the movies explored more was how the Jedi don't have like the exclusive rights to being good guys who use the force.

I certainly hope so. I've said several times that just because if you don't have training, it doesn't make sense that your powers never manifest. Now, this may only apply to the higher powerful, but Grogu would be included. Ahsoka has been out of formalized training longer than in, and she's probably the most powerful around. Where did she learn to purify the sabre crystals from? 

Maybe he wouldn't learn how to make a sabre himself, but where did Luke learn it? 

Having Grogu be singularly powerful, and nothing coming from it seems just not how tv is written. You'd think something dire is going to happen to Mando, and Grogu is going to wreck it. 
 

[Uncle JUICE]

13 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

. Where did she learn to purify the sabre crystals from? 

Maybe he wouldn't learn how to make a sabre himself, but where did Luke learn it? 

 

I believe her learning to purify the kyber (sp) crystals was explained in her book. And if I recall correctly, Luke's lightsaber is built during the book Shadow of the Empire, which covered the gap between Empire and Jedi rather nicely. If I recall, he found directions basically at Ben's house on Tatooine. 

[DoctorAtomic]

So my point then, Ahsoka didn't have training to purify the crystals. She was able to do it. I don't think Grogu's powers then are just going to fade. 

[Guest]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:37 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

One thing I would love is if Grogu became a super strong force wielding Mandalorian. Because one thing I wish the movies explored more was how the Jedi don't have like the exclusive rights to being good guys who use the force. Because not only does the structure and rules of the Jedi order have major issues but there also should be other ways to develop those skills. I mean I know that the original movies were based on old time matinee serials where the only option was good guy or bad guy but I thought the series might have moved past that. The Last Jedi touched on it a bit and there was Donnie Yen's character in Rogue One but there hasn't been much other than that. 

I agree. The animated shows introduced several species who have a strong connection to the force and don’t operate within the binary construct of the Jedi and Sith. Those that show a much deeper understanding of the force. I would love to see some of those elements brought into live action and potentially influence Grogu’s path. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I guess part of the "Previously" was from the Boba Fett series? I still haven't watched any of that so I didn't recognize those clips.

Mandalorians as mercenary deprogrammers. Interesting.

Why did the Armorer send Din and Grogu with Bo-Katan? Seems like an unnecessary danger to put Grogu in.

Lizzo! And Jack Black! And Christopher Lloyd! Oh myĺ

Lol, Duchess Lizzo petting Grogu like a cat and Grogu purring like one.

I was getting Robcop 2 vibe off that first malfunctioning droid Bo and Din chased.

So is Nepenthe like the Star Wars version of meth mixed with PCP?

Commissioner Helgait made the classic Bond villain mistake: talking too much instead of just getting on with it.

[tkc]

Not my original idea, but with Christopher Lloyd, this show could now be called "The Man in DeLorean"!

[aemom]

On 4/5/2023 at 8:06 AM, vadare said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

where it turned out he was a 'toon all along.

All in all I'm enjoying this season. I understand ratings have dipped, but I really think it's because people are waiting for the whole season to drop so they can binge it.

I totally wait for entire seasons to drop. We have family TV nights and watch 2-3 episodes at a time of whatever series we're currently working on.

Enjoying this season so far.