All Episodes Discussion

[sinycalone]

I feel very sorry for the older daughter.  From her FB posts, I believe he probably was a very difficult man to live with.  However, if Dateline presented the story in the proper chronological order, the original test of her step-father's robe was not done years after the fact...but early in the investigation...with the results mislaid/lost/whatever for years.

The blood spatter expert testimony was a joke...so that had to be discarded completely.  Nowhere in the trial was the fact that her mother had tried to commit suicide while in high school brought forward, nor was the fact that she was having an affair.

This is pure conjecture on my part.  In the FB post, the daughter mentioned her mother finally finding enough courage to leave an abusive situation...but the events Christmas Eve ended that hope.  Is it possible that her relationship with her boss/lover was the basis for her feeling strong enough to get out of the marriage....but when he broke off the affair (also meaning the end of the job that she loved)....she was overwhelmed with hopelessness?

[LittleIggy]

That state trooper (who was never wrong!) deep sixed the test results on the bathrobe. So glad that lawyer took pics of what she found.

[sskrill]

Deadly Twist - the Air Force pilot.  

Boy did he show his ass in the courtroom.  If anyone on the jury had any doubts about his guilt, he gave them every reason to convict with that outburst.

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, sskrill said:

Deadly Twist - the Air Force pilot.  

Boy did he show his ass in the courtroom.  If anyone on the jury had any doubts about his guilt, he gave them every reason to convict with that outburst.

Yes, what a creepy dude and he had all the neighbors thinking he was awesome while she was sort of boring.  Did ever such a nice pretty woman have such bad taste in men?  First that wishy washy "artist," who strung her along for years because he "wasn't quite ready," for marriage, then she looks for stability and finds it in the murderer, and the mechanic-boyfriend seemed smarmy to me, too, just putting her in danger while not really protecting her.  Even her father failed to truly have her back.

[UsernameFatigue]

As much as I didn't like Todd Winkler, I didn't like any of the other people in this episode either, including the victim. She was definitely drawn to losers, and while she may have been pretty I didn't see anything particularly nice about her, and don't see why these men were gaga over her. Other than they were losers, so I guess she was a step up? The 14 year long boyfriend was definitely a loser (just can't think of a better word!), Todd certainly had his issues (aside from being a murderer of course), and the boyfriend she was going to leave Todd for was no prize. Even his daughter bugged me. And her father was a piece of work  as well. There was no one I was rooting for in this case. No one. 

[Ohmo]

Another Dirty John casting update: Eric Bana has been cast in the lead role.  His name rings a bell, but I can't immediately recall any of his work.

Eric Bana to Hoodwink Connie Britton in Bravo's True-Crime Drama Dirty John

Next they'll have to cast the daughter of Debra's that he tried to kill.

[cooksdelight]

I caught a rerun early today on USA that I’d not seen before, “The Quiet One” about a woman who drowned in her bathtub. She had abused prescription drugs, but had gone off them and was clean right before it happened. The husband wisely had a video chat of her a week or so before, stoned out of her mind, and I think that was what saved him from being convicted. He was filing for divorce and custody of the kids, which is why she got off the drugs.

[sskrill]

The Pink Gun Mystery.  I feel like JD and Katie were both involved.  JD admitted he was with her "talking in the back seat".  Why would you get into the back seat in the middle of nowhere just to talk?  And he claimed Katie followed him .. that was out in the middle of nowhere, how would he not have seen her following him?  Headlights and breaklights would have been seen for a mile out there.

And for the love of pete, why do women fight over someone like him?  

But I do agree with JD's lawyer - I don't think he was smart enough to plan something like that in advance.

[biakbiak]

I don't think that even JDs lawyer thinks that Katie was imvolved and curious what the cop thinks is the evidence because the show didn't provide it.

[partofme]

I thought Katie was innocent from the beginning.   Her story never changed, JD’s story changed 4 times, at one point he was claiming he wasn’t at the crime scene at all but that Katie stole his phone and brought it with her.   Why would she do that?   And that was when he was saying that Katie came home at 9, when her friend said she didn’t leave til 9:50.   JD may not be a rocket scientist but he’s perfectly capable of framing someone and he’s a known liar having lied about being in the marines.  Thank goodness for Katie that her son’s WiFi data was on because it proved her innocence,

[BusyOctober]

JD must have real Magic Mike moves, because on the surface... huh? Not attractive physically IMO.

 I bet what made him such a hot prospect was the fact that he paid attention to these women who were desperate for love/ attention.  Robin’s own mother said Robin was always looking for the next boy b/c she felt like she needed a man.  And Katie is the poster child for “Daddy Issues”.  Not having a father and living with an unstable mom set that girl up for low self esteem and a lifetime of looking for “love” in all the wrong places.

As for JD, he thrived off the women fighting over him.  His ego (among other things) were being stroked by at least these 2 women.  He got to feel like King of P***y Mountain by pitting the women against each other.  

Like all of these stories, my heart breaks for the kids involved.  I hope Katie’s daughter has had a better, healthier foundation than her mom had.  

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, sskrill said:

And for the love of pete, why do women fight over someone like him?  

I thought the same thing, and I was so glad when he was asked that point blank at one point. The guy tried to put on this faux humility "I dunno, I'm not that good looking a guy" thing, which had me rolling my eyes a bit, but yeah. That's something I often think about with these kinds of stories, too.

(Entirely different story, but I remember thinking something similar when I heard about that sad story of Rachel Wade, who killed her classmate Sarah Ludermann over a guy. The guy looked like a cocky little snot and I was like, "All of this drama and tragedy over him? Really?" Not that that kind of behavior would be any more acceptable even if the guy were attractive, obviously, but...yeah. People are weird.) 

[Tenarife60]

I wonder if one of the reasons they fell for JD was because he made pretty good money being an auto mechanic.  I don't remember if they said either Robin or Katie had a job.  I do remember that when Robin got pregnant she moved in with JD and into his grandmother's house, then later moved back in with her parents.  I'm not sure about Katie, but it couldn't be because they both fell for JD's good looks.  

[tobeannounced]

9 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I don't think that even JDs lawyer thinks that Katie was imvolved and curious what the cop thinks is the evidence because the show didn't provide it.

Wasn't the cop who thinks she's guilty that same dipstick that gave JD his "get out of jail free" story? He was sitting there saying, "This is what I think happened." JD didn't even have to come up with his own story. The cop gave it right to him - the story about JD parking with Robin and Katie coming up on them.

And if Katie's son with her every minute, did they even ask the son if his mom drove to where they were and confronted the couple? I didn't hear anything about that.

[sinycalone]

5 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Wasn't the cop who thinks she's guilty that same dipstick that gave JD his "get out of jail free" story? He was sitting there saying, "This is what I think happened." JD didn't even have to come up with his own story. The cop gave it right to him - the story about JD parking with Robin and Katie coming up on them.

And if Katie's son with her every minute, did they even ask the son if his mom drove to where they were and confronted the couple? I didn't hear anything about that.

I had that same question:  if the son was with Katie the whole time....wasn't that an alibi?  I realize the testimony of children is not always considered rock solid....but wouldn't that have given them the impetus to check his phone data sooner?

Yep, that cop basically created a story for JD...and I think he was simply p*ssed off that Katie proved not to be the killer.  

JD was smart enough to tell each woman what she wanted/needed to hear....and to create background stories that made him more sympathetic.  

[hoosiermom]

I was so relieved to hear he wasn’t ever in the Marines. My daughter and SIL were both Marines and people like JD make me sick. So glad Katie was cleared. I really liked her.

[Mama No Life]

Katie answered the question about why both women wanted him...she said he had the ability to figure out who each one wanted him to be and he became exactly what they needed.  They actually said JD and Robin struggled to make ends meet so I don't think it was money.

 

Josh Mankoweicz and one the producer who wrote to Katie in jail live-tweeted during the show, and Josh very much believed that Katie was innocent.  Said over the years of their interactions (years! Must take forever to do one of these eps) her story never once wavered and then the cell phone data proved it.

[JudyObscure]

I doubted JD's Marine story immediately.  Too stupid and too slouchy.  I wasn't so quick to realize Katie was innocent though.  When she first sat in the interrogation chair and burst into tears with, "Is my husband cheatin' on me?" I just thought she was a lying redneck who thought shooting her rival would be a cool way to prove her love.  Those angry text messages didn't help.  But her nicely written letter from prison, her explanations, and her interview with Josh all convinced me that my first impression was wrong.  Dateline's hair and make-up people helped, too, and it's a shame how so many of us are influenced by such things as a well groomed appearance. If I was a defense attorney my clients would look great if I had to dress them myself.

 Katie  failed those lie detector tests!  Do they ever work?  I think the psychopaths sail through them because they have no conscience and the innocent people get nervous and jerk the needle all over the place.

[tobeannounced]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 Katie  failed those lie detector tests!  Do they ever work?  I think the psychopaths sail through them because they have no conscience and the innocent people get nervous and jerk the needle all over the place.

Right? I'm always flabbergasted when someone from law enforcement says a person of interest passed a lie detector so that cleared them as a suspect!

[walnutqueen]

There's a reason lie detector results are inadmissible in court.  There's an entire field of "forensics" that has come under scrutiny, and it's high time the criminal justice system started boning up on REAL science vs what has just been accepted as such in previous court cases.

[ButterQueen]

Sadly, I was bored 45 minutes into the episode.  There was really no mystery to me.  

[Ohmo]

I went back and forth with Katie.  It's plausible to me that Katie could kill Robin because of the bad blood between them, but it's also plausible to me that JD wanted to kill Robin and frame Katie.  If Katie was involved, I would have needed more than the state had to convict her.

My ears perked up when JD mentioned the STAAR tests.  I write educational material for a living, and the STAAR test is a state assessment test given in Texas.  It jumped out at me because JD called it by name in one of his police interviews.  I know this sounds stereotypical, but when I taught school (which wasn't in Texas), it was unusual for fathers to be that specific.  I had a couple of fathers who were attentive to that level, but often they would know that their child would have a test at school, but not necessarily be able to name it.  JD also didn't strike me as the extremely attentive type of parent.  When he said that they were talking about the STAAR test instead of saying something like "We were talking about a test that the girls had at school," it made me wonder if JD was naming the test in an attempt to add specificity to his story.

[Lizzing]

I recorded this episode & just watched it, and the idiots at the local NBC affiliate kept cutting in with commercials at the wrong spots, so I missed a lot of the DA's explanation as to why they cleared Katie.  I got that her son's android phone had data on it that proved that the phone/son was not at the murder scene, but what proved that the son/his phone was with Katie, other than her saying so?  Did someone corroborate that the son was with her?

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, Lizzing said:

Did someone corroborate that the son was with her?

There was a (very) brief mention that witnesses placed Katie at her friend's house, and Katie herself mentioned that she was always in the presence of three people.  Josh seemed to echo the three people statement, as though he was very familiar with it.  I assume that two of those people were Katie's kids, but the episode didn't go into any detail about how that information was confirmed.

[JudyObscure]

Every time we have one of these stories about a young mother and her affairs, night clubbing,  trips to pick up friends at 2 AM, etc, I wonder what she does with her child/children.  I guess Katie drags those kids over to her friends'  houses at night and lets them overhear all the talk about men and what nasty text message battles are going on.

[tobeannounced]

10 hours ago, Lizzing said:

I recorded this episode & just watched it, and the idiots at the local NBC affiliate kept cutting in with commercials at the wrong spots, so I missed a lot of the DA's explanation as to why they cleared Katie.  I got that her son's android phone had data on it that proved that the phone/son was not at the murder scene, but what proved that the son/his phone was with Katie, other than her saying so?  Did someone corroborate that the son was with her?

This is my big question that Dateline didn't touch on at all! If she was never alone, why did they lock her ass up for over a year and totally disregard the testimony of the persons she was with? Reminds me of Game Night.

[ButterQueen]

12 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

This is my big question that Dateline didn't touch on at all! If she was never alone, why did they lock her ass up for over a year and totally disregard the testimony of the persons she was with? Reminds me of Game Night.

Locked up 4 days after the murder.  What dumb fucks the police and especially the DA were.

[biakbiak]

25 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

Locked up 4 days after the murder.  What dumb fucks the police and especially the DA were.

And lucky that a secretary knew more than the freaking investogators to get the cell phone data. 

It's also a good example of why we  need bail reform in this country.

[OpalNightstream]

Sorry I didn't feel bad for Katie at all. She was so nasty toward Robin, you know, the woman whose husband she took? Sure JD was a POS anyway, but still Katie was not a sympathetic character imho. She had some nerve being that nasty toward someone she screwed over.  Then she only got upset once the cop said that JD was cheating on her.  So what if Robin is dead, JD was cheating.  How dare he!

Edited April 13, 2018 by OpalNightstream
Typo

[sinycalone]

49 minutes ago, OpalNightstream said:

Sorry I didn't feel bad for Katie at all. She was so nasty toward Robin, you know, the woman whose husband she took? Sure JD was a POS anyway, but still Katie was not a sympathetic character imho. She had some nerve being that nasty toward someone she screwed over.  Then she only got upset once the cop said that JD was cheating on her.  So what if Robin is dead, JD was cheating.  How dare he!

I felt sympathy for Katie because she spent time in jail for something she did not do.....but I agree that she kind of brushed aside the fact that she cheated with a married man, broke up that marriage, and basically felt no remorse for doing all of that.

[A1Jackass]

Wendi and her mother and brother are fucking disgusting. It was like a family of psychopaths. The video where she talked about raising her kids in Miami made my skin crawl. I hope her kids will learn the truth someday and cut them all out of their lives. Preferably, while they're imprisoned.

[UsernameFatigue]

On 4/7/2018 at 6:06 AM, partofme said:

I thought Katie was innocent from the beginning.   Her story never changed, JD’s story changed 4 times, at one point he was claiming he wasn’t at the crime scene at all but that Katie stole his phone and brought it with her.   Why would she do that?   And that was when he was saying that Katie came home at 9, when her friend said she didn’t leave til 9:50.   JD may not be a rocket scientist but he’s perfectly capable of framing someone and he’s a known liar having lied about being in the marines.  Thank goodness for Katie that her son’s WiFi data was on because it proved her innocence,

I just got around to watching this episode, and also believed Katie from the beginning. What I didn't understand (and what others have mentioned) is why the police didn't interview Katie's son who was with her the whole evening. Even without his cell phone data proving Katie was not on that highway, it seems like the son was old enough to tell the cops that they went from Katie's friend's house to their own house. (In Katie's wedding pic taken 6 months earlier there were two boys - not sure which one was her son but they looked to be 8-10 years old at least so old enough to tell the police what he did that night). 

I don't understand why the DA wasn't suspicious of JD's story regarding Katie coming out to where he and Robin were meeting. Diego was with Katie, so if she really was there, JD should have known that the son was there as well. Of course he didn't say that, because Katie wasn't really there. And as much as Katie might be a POS is some parts of her life, I don't think she would take her son with her to kill her husband's ex wife. Scary to think that if not for her son's phone data, Katie might have been convicted for a murder her husband committed. I am impressed that she is hoping to go to law school, and looks like she is making great choices to make that happen. 

[cooksdelight]

Wendi and her brother, mother, father should all be arrested. That blonde DA or whatever she is didn’t seem to interested in charging them. Or getting the girl to flip. Ridiculous.

[Pickles]

Wendi told her bf that it would cost $15k to have her husband killed??? How is this not a huge red flag to the police? How can she presumably be declared innocent and they are not even further investigating her? You know the whole family was in on this--the mother, brother and Wendi. Perhaps the police were taken with her"charisma". And now she has cut off the dead husband's parents AND changed the kids' last name to her last name. She has totally erased the dead husband from their lives. I read online that she also just got a new job/promotion. She is just sailing along in life. 

Yes, that blonde DA woman did not seem too interested in going after the family. She said something about, eventually the truth comes out. Really? I don't think so. Why isn't she grilling the ex gf of the brother? Get her to flip on Wendi brother?? I don't get it.

[Ohmo]

15 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Wendi and her brother, mother, father should all be arrested.

I hope their dental practice takes a hit after this national publicity.  Wendy, both her parents, and her brother are all involved.  I'm a big believer in karma, and one day I think they will ALL get theirs.  As to changing the kids' names, Wendi might be able to do it now.  However, hopefully one day those boys will be old enough to do some Googling and thinking of their own.  There's nothing that says they can't change their name back when they become adults.  Here's hoping anyway.

[Enigma X]

I am always interested in who was not shown in these cases. Sometimes more than who was. I wonder if the younger brother disassociated himself from the family because he knew of their murderous tendecies, or maybe he simply did not want to be associated with this case. I am just curious.

[UsernameFatigue]

This case was covered previously, and I thought it was by Dateline. So I watched the whole 2 hours hoping there was an update in the case, and that Wendi/her parents/her brother had finally been held accountable. I was so disappointed to find out that is not the case. Ugh. 

[AZChristian]

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I hope their dental practice takes a hit after this national publicity.  Wendy, both her parents, and her brother are all involved.  I'm a big believer in karma, and one day I think they will ALL get theirs.  As to changing the kids' names, Wendi might be able to do it now.  However, hopefully one day those boys will be old enough to do some Googling and thinking of their own.  There's nothing that says they can't change their name back when they become adults.  Here's hoping anyway.

Wouldn't it be great to see them on "Long Lost Family"?

[tobeannounced]

I've seen this case covered before, but I'm still amazed at how just having the description of a silver Prius, LE was able to figure out who it was through technology. If the neighbor hadn't happened to see the car, they totally would have gotten away with this. Even though Wendy's family has got off scott-free so far, at least the actual shooters are in jail. I too really wonder why they can't get the girlfriend to flip. Maybe they're still paying some hush money.

[JudyObscure]

Deadly Circumstances.  One of those iffy ones.  In Norman's favor; Brittany's place did look burglarized (none of those oddly pulled out drawers we sometimes see) and there were burglaries in the neighborhood at the time, no DNA.  Against Norman: he had a motive (no childcare payments), no solid alibi for the time of the crime, she was choked and evidently choking is a "personal" form of murder, running around the scene of the crime in such a fake, "My baby's in there!" way.

Doesn't this one demonstrate how random a jury trial can be?  The first trial only one person wanted to convict and the second trial, with the same information, only one  person wanted to acquit.

I'm saddened for all young women to think 15 to 20 of them were dating this loser and two got pregnant by him.  He was even disrespectful and nasty to Andrea at one point!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Deadly Circumstances.  

I'm saddened for all young women to think 15 to 20 of them were dating this loser and two got pregnant by him.  He was even disrespectful and nasty to Andrea at one point!

Yes.  I'm glad you brought this up.

He got snotty with her when she disagreed that his timeline was possible.  Flash anger - that's the frightening kind.  Notice he flashed, then went back to the "yes ma'am". 

I would have to listen to all the evidence before saying he was guilty or not.  But what I noticed was his willingness to cooperate with the police interviews, give samples of his DNA and attend gatherings for the deceased.  He was very straight forward about his innocence - yet, did not take the stand in his defense. 

I know you don't have to take the stand but I am wondering if the choice was made because of his "flash anger".  That prosecutor would have hounded him on the stand and he didn't seem able to control his anger.

Also, on a side note.  Hat backwards.  Really?  Come on, you're on tv   Take off the sweaty, stained hat for all of twenty minutes.   

Another side note - there seemed to be a lot of phone shenanigans at that mortgage company.  Sheesh.  Did anyone do any work? 

[sempervivum]

1 hour ago, PsychoKlown said:

Another side note - there seemed to be a lot of phone shenanigans at that mortgage company.  Sheesh.  Did anyone do any work? 

Really. And unless there are thousands of employees at that place, how likely is it that his womanizing wasn't common knowledge? Norman was not even that good looking, lived in his parents' basement, had a low level white collar job and I assume an easily verified FB history of multiple partners, as well as court records revealing his indebtedness; are decent men really that hard to find (I'm probably giving my age away!)?

I also don't want to blame the victim, but why would a 21 year old marry a guy who specifically didn't want kids, when according to her brother that was all she ever wanted? She was on the path of serial stupid decisions.

I agree with the police that robbers don't strangle people- this was someone she knew. That said, her ex was soooo right as the murderer, too bad about air-tight alibi!  

[Stampiron]

Deadly Circumstances  

"An analysis by the FBI showed [Norman] Clark’s phone was turned off at 9:06 p.m. on the night [Brittany Eldridge] was believed killed. Three text messages were sent from Eldridge’s phone to Clark’s between roughly 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. His alibi witness — another in a string of girlfriends he was romancing in December 2011 — testified she awoke to find Clark in her bedroom, a short drive from Eldridge’s apartment, at 10:40 p.m."

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2018/04/19/dateline-nbc-norman-clark-knoxville-accused-killing-pregnant-girlfriend-brittany-eldridge/527508002/

-"A friend of Eldridge's told investigators the two "had been fighting over Mr, Clark's involvement or lack there of in the life of his unborn child." Clark also admitted to a "tumultuous relationship" with Eldridge.

That same friend told investigators that Clark was supposed to go to Eldridge's apartment the night she died. Cell phone records indicate that Clark was in the vicinity of her apartment that night, but Clark denied going there. [How big an area is "the vicinity" and is there any other explanation for why he'd be in that radius?]

Emails obtained from the company where both Clark and Eldridge worked also implied the two were meeting the night she died. On December 12, Eldridge sent an email to Clark that read in part, "..so just in case you don't get my text telling you that I'm at home, you can come over anytime after 8:45." Clark replied a minute later with, "I will text or call on my way!""

https://www.wbir.com/article/news/crime/jewelry-could-be-key-evidence-in-tying-murder-suspect-to-crime/51-312195542

- The phone being turned off is a huge red flag unless there's evidence that Clark routinely (or even occasionally) turned his phone off. I'd think that would be easy to check.

- According to prosecution testimony, the burglary looked staged. There was no sign of forced entry. Drawers were pulled out but nothing inside them was disturbed. TV's were taken off the wall and placed on the floor, but nothing was broken. A laptop was untouched. A debit card with the PIN-number wrapped around it (??) wasn't taken.

What burglar enters someone's apartment at 8-10pm? That's a time that you'd expect people to be home and likely still awake. At what times did the other burglaries the defense mentioned occur? Also, if Brittany was home and awake (which she was because she was undressed and running a bath) when the burglars entered, then they must have killed Brittany before ransacking her apartment. Why would they ransack her place *after* killing her but not take anything? If they'd ransacked it first, been surprised by Brittany coming home and killed her, then you could argue that they got scared and fled without taking anything. But that's not what happened here; she was already home.

(Also, is there a city in the world where you couldn't find recent cases of burglaries where TVs were stolen? The defense presents it as if this supposed burglary was part of a pattern of burglaries, but I need more tying them together than just stolen TVs. )

- I think Clark was so cooperative because he clearly believes in the power of his personal charm. His entire lifestyle is based on that. Just like he convinces all these women he's a great guy, he thinks he can do the same with everybody. 

Watching the episode, I leaned guilty but wasn't sure how I'd vote if I were a juror, but after reading/thinking about the case today I'm pretty sure I'd vote to convict. 

@JudyObscure The difference in how the two juries voted was really striking.  And as for the parade of women, I wonder if any of them are still seeing him? I wouldn't be shocked if a couple are.

@PsychoKlown Agree about the hat. Maybe there's something going on underneath it? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stampiron said:

@PsychoKlown Agree about the hat. Maybe there's something going on underneath it? 

I carefully listened to him speak.

I assure you there was nothing going on underneath it.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I agree with the police that robbers don't strangle people- this was someone she knew. That said, her ex was soooo right as the murderer, too bad about air-tight alibi!  

There were a series of robberies.  OK, I buy that.  I buy that a robbery could be interrupted.  However, I don't remember hearing about anyone being injured.  So, the serial robbers are supposedly going to suddenly graduate to murder AND they are going to murder a woman who is visibly pregnant?  There was absolutely no doubt that she was going to deliver soon.  Boosting TVs and killing pregnant women are two wildly different frames of reference.  Plus, the water was running.  I'd be more inclined to think that the robbers would hear the water and leave.

I can understand that the DA might not be able to prove it, but I still think it's far more likely that Norman either did it or had someone do it for him.

[Ohmo]

Another thing about the DNA.  The cops said it wasn't Norman's, but they didn't say it was fresh either---only that it was on a piece of lingerie.  Brittany was pregnant.  Very pregnant.  She was likely not wearing lingerie recently.  That piece of clothing could have been from a time when Brittany might have slept with men other than Norman and ended up balled up in the closet and forgotten...until Norman used it to help set the scene.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Midnight Sun said:

And Norman, Norman, Norman.  I fail to recognize your supposed charm.

It's a shame that there are so many women with very low self-esteem.

I've counseled women who flat out tell me that they'd rather share a man than have no man at all.  There is also the belief (on their part) that this prized Hunk O'Man will choose them and be faithful for all eternity.

I must sit and listen without judgment but I cannot tell you how many times on the drive home (with the windows up) I've actually screamed just to let the frustration out.  

And Norman.  Norman in his ill-fitting suit.  No.  Just no.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Midnight Sun said:

Regarding the Deadly Circumstances episode:  I was irritated by the dingbat 9-1-1 operator telling the very frightened mother to ENTER the apartment to look for her daughter. 

That struck me odd, too. Yeah, she could've easily just hung out outside or across the street at someone else's place (if she knew any of her daughter's neighbors) or something instead. Aside from the obvious risk that the burglar/murderer might still be lurking in the house, nobody would want a parent wandering into a scene where they know their child may be seriously injured or dead. They'd want to keep the parent from having those horrible images in their heads. 

[sainte-chapelle]

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

There were a series of robberies.  OK, I buy that.  I buy that a robbery could be interrupted.  However, I don't remember hearing about anyone being injured.  So, the serial robbers are supposedly going to suddenly graduate to murder AND they are going to murder a woman who is visibly pregnant?  There was absolutely no doubt that she was going to deliver soon.  Boosting TVs and killing pregnant women are two wildly different frames of reference.  Plus, the water was running.  I'd be more inclined to think that the robbers would hear the water and leave.

I can understand that the DA might not be able to prove it, but I still think it's far more likely that Norman either did it or had someone do it for him.

Thank you! Robbery and murder are two completely different animals. The murder of a young pregnant woman by someone who likely just wants to grab and go is highly unlikely. 

[LittleIggy]

Nothing to add to the observations above except weren’t the people at that office aware that all of their phone conversations were being recorded? If so, did they just not care?

Player was not all that. I can’t believe all those women slept with him.