All Episodes Discussion

[SunnyBeBe]

Yes, it's amazing.  I sat there in a trance. I mean, WHO can handle that much stress and responsibility for that long?  It had me wondering about the parent's physical and mental health.  I would think that it might cause their bodies to get sick, develop some kind of ailment, etc.  How can you stay healthy when under that much anxiety long term?  I just worry about that.  If you saw the recent story of the real life child who is similar to the Wonder book story.  (The author of the book Wonder, didn't know him when she wrote the book ,but,  later found out that he's just like the child she writes of.)  His mother got cancer as he was in the hospital having major surgery.  He was born with a genetic deformity. 

I also wondered about the children of the Bingham family who were not facing immediate medical crisis.  How about their development within the family structure......I can see how they may feel left out. 

I just kept thinking....this seems too much to put on those parent's plate.  Just not fair.  

Edited November 27, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[sinycalone]

Pistorius did not appeal the verdict nor sentence -- the prosecution appealed for a stiffer sentence, and that's when the higher court more than doubled his sentence.

Edited November 27, 2017 by sinycalone

[ari333]

I didn't buy any bit of the husband's story starting from the 911 call. IIRC. (I watch a lot of these shows and they run together in my head). All of it was BS to me. If I shoot someone in my home, I"d make damn sure it's  not my husband. 

[cooksdelight]

And... you’d make sure to be just as verklempt when the officer left the room and you’re still on camera. Which he failed to do. He was more interested in his beloved Dr. Pepper.

[mythoughtis]

3 hours ago, ari333 said:

I didn't buy any bit of the husband's story starting from the 911 call. IIRC. (I watch a lot of these shows and they run together in my head). All of it was BS to me. If I shoot someone in my home, I"d make damn sure it's  not my husband. 

 Didn’t watch this repeat, but I remember not believing him the time I did watch it. 

 

I will say,  though, that every so often there is a report of some homeowner mistaking his own teenager for a burglar and shooting them. So it happens. Just not in this case. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

He was more interested in his beloved Dr. Pepper.

Well Cooksdelight, after all it is a Dr. Pepper

[vavavoom]

On 11/25/2017 at 8:32 PM, CriticalMass said:

Add me to the list that found Sarah’s BIL creepy. Which mush mouthed sister is he married to? He was a pure attention whore, even at the funeral. He certainly stood out as a pall bearer in a loud shirt sans jacket, in front, of course. Wonder why the mother nor either brother appeared. Is the father still around? 

Yes! Going around with his hugely-muscled friends threatening his suspects made no sense to me. The cops needed to shut that down way before they did. He's lucky that he didn't get any harassment charges.

[SunnyBeBe]

Sometimes, people's reactions to a death may seem off, but, I try to not put too much stake in it, because, you never can be sure. I recall some cases where the surviving family members had very odd behavior, cool, distant, unemotional, etc, BUT, as it turned out, they were not involved at all in the murder.  Other people, who had no connection to them were identified and prosecuted.  I think that some people just act odd.  I try to look at other evidence that may implicate them.  

[mythoughtis]

Re: murder of Mary Yoder episode. 

I hate it when families are torn apart and not speaking after the murder. Compounds the tragedy. 

Her sisters blame the husband, without a single piece of evidence. They support the woman eventually  convicted of her murder.  A woman who tried to frame their nephew. They don’t speak to a remaining  sister because she started dating the widower after her sisters death. Gosh, I hope they don’t read the Old Testament. One of these sisters sons blames his cousin. 

Meanwhile the victims  daughters believe in their Dad and brother, and believe the case against their brothers ex girlfriend - who was alone with the victim the day she was poisoned. 

What a mess. They’ve lost each other in addition to the victim. 

[Annber03]

Yeah, I kept thinking about how much that family's been ripped apart, too. So very sad.

Also, the "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned/vengeance, thy name..." stuff from that prosecutor bugged me. Take the dramatics down a notch, lady, this isn't an audition. 

[mythoughtis]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Take the dramatics down a notch, lady, this isn't an audition. 

I was bothered by both trials defense lawyers for the same reason.  They were trying so hard to pin the blame on the widower and son.  

[MerBearHou]

The Mary Yoder case:  Mary's 3 sisters seemed to take Katie's side because (a) she reminded them of their same-age daughters and she was "too sweet" to do such a thing and (b) I think they were extremely bitter about the other sister and Bill dating (that I get, but not to the point of blaming Bill for the murder and/or framing Katie).  

If I were on the jury, I would have absolutely found Katie guilty.  The letter, the phone, the computer searches, the DNA on the hidden bottle under the seat, only office person with Mary that day.  I think darling daughter Katie is very, very messed up while appearing to be a mild-mannered, prim young lady.  Her back-and-forth with Adam, filing police charges against him, saying he raped her, the comments to the police about poison being a lady's option (I'm a much, much older female and have never heard that so what 22 year old has unless she's been researching poison??) -- all bizarre.

I felt so badly for her parents though.   Just crushing.  This did tear up two families. 

Mary seemed to be terrific.  

Thought this episode was well done because I had absolutely no idea how it was going to turn out in the end.

[sinycalone]

10 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

The Mary Yoder case:  Mary's 3 sisters seemed to take Katie's side because (a) she reminded them of their same-age daughters and she was "too sweet" to do such a thing and (b) I think they were extremely bitter about the other sister and Bill dating (that I get, but not to the point of blaming Bill for the murder and/or framing Katie).  

If I were on the jury, I would have absolutely found Katie guilty.  The letter, the phone, the computer searches, the DNA on the hidden bottle under the seat, only office person with Mary that day.  I think darling daughter Katie is very, very messed up while appearing to be a mild-mannered, prim young lady.  Her back-and-forth with Adam, filing police charges against him, saying he raped her, the comments to the police about poison being a lady's option (I'm a much, much older female and have never heard that so what 22 year old has unless she's been researching poison??) -- all bizarre.

I felt so badly for her parents though.   Just crushing.  This did tear up two families. 

Mary seemed to be terrific.  

Thought this episode was well done because I had absolutely no idea how it was going to turn out in the end.

I would have voted guilty, too.  The sisters' reasoning for believing Katie innocent was hardly impressive..."she seemed too sweet, etc."  The fact that she did not ask for an attorney was hardly proof of anything....I think she just thought she could manipulate the police into believing her story....feeling cleverer than them. I'm sure.  I'm glad the judge allowed the second option - manslaughter - because I believe that was the only option that jury would ever accept.  Me....I would have found her guilty of murder.  Too much planning and scheming.

Edited December 2, 2017 by sinycalone

[ridethemaverick]

I'm sorry and I feel terrible for saying this but the two daughters annoyed the CRAP out of me with their whining and fake crying. The story is tragic and I'm sure they feel true feelings of grief and loss so I'm confused about their choice to put on those two year old voices and crocodile tears every time they answered a question.

I thought Katie did it but I can understand why the first jury couldn't reach a verdict. I think the rape accusation and attempted poisoning ultimately sealed her fate.

It's a shame the family is so broken. While I dont think the husband did it, I did find it skeevy that he and the sister hooked up. I cant even imagine my BIL in a romantic light. Yuck!

[UsernameFatigue]

I could not have convicted Katie. And the daughters did bug the crap out of me. I agree with the above poster about all the whining and two year old voices. Not to mention at one point they said they thought their father had framed their brother. Then they talk about their father and how broken he was after their mother died. Apparently they were fine with him hooking up with their aunt while their mother was still alive. And carrying on right after she died. Broken my azz. 

There were many reasons that I don't think Katie did it that I won't bother going into. But mostly because she could have easily been framed. I also have no reason to believe that she was not raped by Adam. The fact that he admitted to "slapping her a few times" makes me think he was violent more than once. And it is only his word that he blacked out and didn't remember what Katie said happened. And since she broke up with him, why would she kill his mother to get him back? She had by far the least motive of anyone.

The thing that shocked me the most was that both the husband and son got immunity because they testified at the grand jury? How is that even possible? I have never heard of such a thing. So if evidence can to light that one or the other was the killer they would get off scott free? What killer would not be jumping at the change to testify with that reward? 

Edited December 2, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[biakbiak]

I am still unclear on Katie's motive for everything and she seems to be a dumbass who brought suspicion on herself by trying to frame the son.

What I was left wondering most other than her reasoning was what the hell was she wearing to groom her horse?!? Her outfit choice made me believe that she is not the reasoned thinker!

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I am still unclear on Katie's motive for everything

That would have been the hardest part for me if I had been on the jury. She was definitely not a smart girl, but I can't imagine that even she would think,"If I poison Adam's mother he will come back to me."

Adam was brutal enough to slap her around. 

Adam did have access to Katie's phone and was witnessed using her computer.

Adam might have been poisoned at one point or he might have had a stomach flu.

In the interrogation room, Katie did seem afraid that Adam would come after her and the police would not be able to protect her.

The husband was seen kissing his sister-in-law before the murder.

The husband was due to collect $400,000 which he may not have wanted to share with Mary.

The husband was with Mary in the hospital for the suspected second dose and Katie wasn't.

 

All things considered, I do think it was most likely Katie, but there's too much doubt for me to have convicted her.

 

When the episode started and the title was "Poisoned,"  I said it was probably a woman perpetrator because poison has always been known as the female's weapon of choice.  I was shocked that the police put so much emphasis on Katie saying that, when I thought it was fairly common knowledge.

I've learned several things from this one:  If you think you have information regarding  a murder, keep it to yourself.  If you're the one who did it, offer to testify to the grand jury.  If you're young and "sweet" lots of people think you aren't capable of murder.  Unlike cranky old hags like me.

Finally, how in the world do you inject enough poison in one herbal tablet to kill someone?  If it's used for gout in small doses, it can't be one of those, "One drop is lethal," things.   I could maybe see it with capsules, but those big old chalky herbal things would have been dripping with the poison wouldn't they?  Why weren't the rest of the pills tainted?  Why do health nuts keep taking those things when it's been shown on 60 Minutes that they contain all sorts of dirt and rat hair?

[Guest]

I think I'd convict her on manslaughter. 

The whole time I was watching Katie I kept thinking how much she looked like the actress Robyn Douglass.  For old-timers that's the girlfriend in Breaking Away.   The resemblance is uncanny.

Hopefully the daughter/doctor is a podiatrist, allergy specialist or something of that ilk.  I cannot imagine her working with cancer, heart or terminal patients.  For pete's sake there wouldn't be enough tissues in the hospital to accommodate all those tears.  And I will not elaborate on the blue/green eye shadow.  I'll simply give a shout out to the 80's.

Sorry the picture is so big but my computer has a mind of her own.

[AZChristian]

42 minutes ago, PsychoKlown said:

I think I'd convict her on manslaughter. 

. . . 

Hopefully the daughter/doctor is a podiatrist, allergy specialist or something of that ilk.  I cannot imagine her working with cancer, heart or terminal patients.  For pete's sake there wouldn't be enough tissues in the hospital to accommodate all those tears.  And I will not elaborate on the blue/green eye shadow.  I'll simply give a shout out to the 80's.

I am NOT an attorney, so I had to look up the definition of manslaughter:  "The crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder."

If you go through all the machinations of researching a good poison, ordering it online, and actually giving it to your intended victim, how can you do that without malice aforethought?  Only way I could see that it wasn't first-degree murder is if she actually intended to kill Bill or Adam Yoder, but Mary got the wrong pill by accident.  Am I missing something?

The daughter/doctor is a family practice osteopath.  I turned to Mr. AZC during the show and said, "No way could I go to a doctor who gives off such an immature/unprofessional vibe."  I'm sorry her mother was killed, but both of those daughters were professional whiners.

[cooksdelight]

No way that girl could have poisoned her with enough of the drug to kill her. You would have to take more than one or two tablets, you’d have to take the entire bottle for it to be fatal. Did no one look into the possibility that the husband made her a healthy shake or something, that she then drank during her lunch break? Then he could have fed her more of it when she got to the hospital.

On one hand, I thought the husband did it. He’s screwing around with his sister-in-law before his wife dies, conveniently? Adam may have found out about the affair and used that as part of his plan to kill his mother. It would have been easy to get Katie to handle that cardboard sleeve, it could have been around anything at the office and then moved to the bottle later when he was wearing gloves. Adam feeds her the story and she writes the letter, thinking she’s doing the right thing.

Katie had zero motive. Bill had plenty. Adam didn’t have a good relationship with his mother, and what better way to get revenge at the girlfriend who left him? And who the hell gives the husband and son total immunity???

Those crybaby daughters were driving me insane, I had to plug my ears and look away.

There are far too many questions for me to think Katie did this.

[cooksdelight]

And did y’all notice the Many Faces of Andrea Canning? OMG, her harsh eyebrows and eyeliner when talking to the sisters, then she’d look totally different in each interview segment.

[AZChristian]

45 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

No way that girl could have poisoned her with enough of the drug to kill her. You would have to take more than one or two tablets, you’d have to take the entire bottle for it to be fatal. 

To take the medicinal dosage, one or two tablets wouldn't be a problem.  In addition to the low dosage of colchicine in a prescription-strength tablet, there are lots of inactive ingredients as well.  But (I read somewhere) Mary was in the habit of taking vitamins every day.  If someone had replaced the contents of her normal vitamins with PURE colchicine (which may have been what was ordered), that would be a whole different matter.  I take vitamins and supplements every day; 5 of the pills I swallow are capsules and 4 of them are fairly large.

My main concern right now is that I have a search for COLCHICINE in my browsing history, so I'm probably a suspect for any suspicious deaths in my circle of family and friends.  Deleting history NOW.

Edited December 2, 2017 by AZChristian

[cooksdelight]

Someone on Facebook asked about donating hair to Locks of Love, and said “what if the person that gets my hair commits a crime and my DNA winds up in a criminal search?” 

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Someone on Facebook asked about donating hair to Locks of Love, and said “what if the person that gets my hair commits a crime and my DNA winds up in a criminal search?” 

I'm about the most law-abiding person you'd ever meet, but when I found out that law enforcement can subpoena DNA records from Ancestry.com, I decided I didn't want to trace my relatives after all.

ETA:  I think they mainly take DNA from the root of the hair, although I've heard that they can get a weaker match without the root.  So if you donate to Locks of Love, they'd just make a wig out of the strands, but not the root.  And I'd think that if you have a record of donating the hair, law enforcement might accept that as a reason for your hair to be at the scene.

Edited December 2, 2017 by AZChristian

[cooksdelight]

Same here, even though if I have enough Cherokee blood in me I could qualify for the money the tribe hands out to people on the roll.

[JudyObscure]

29 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

My main concern right now is that I have a search for COLCHICINE in my browsing history,

I thought the most obvious reason for Katie to have that on her phone was that she would have looked it up when she heard that Mary was poisoned by it.  When it first was delivered to the office she would have just handled and stored it like all the other drugs and had no reason to be particularly interested. 

 Another thing I just thought of, with all our talk about the little whiney voices of Mary's daughters, --  I'll bet their mother sounded that way, too, so the person who testified that it was ordered by "someone who sounded young," could have been talking to Mary or Katie.

They said the reduction to manslaughter was based on the suggestion that Katie might have only intended to make Mary sick.  I roll my eyes in their general direction.  If Katie's defense is going to go there, I need to hear Katie admit to giving it to Mary and saying she only meant to make her  sick.  Basically, with manslaughter, the defense is trying to have it both ways," Katie didn't do it but she only meant to make Mary sick."  What now?

I sick to my own legal rule.  If a woman turns up dead and her husband is having an affair -- he did it. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I went on Dateline's FB page last night and the biggest topic was the whining sisters - they annoyed pretty much everyone! Also many people questioning how the father and son got immunity for testifying at the grand jury. Many questioned why they would need immunity if they were innocent. And why were they given it in the first place? Never heard of such a thing. 

On FB there was also a post by one of Mary's sisters who still thinks that Katie is innocent, and also someone from Katie's family who posted a link to a website called Free Katlyn Conley. There is some interesting info on it. 

I think (and would love to know if I am right) that if the judge had not pressured the second jury to bring in a verdict, it would have been a hung jury once again. I think the manslaughter verdict was because those who thought she was guilty were willing to reduce the charge if those who thought she was innocent agreed to charge her with something. But I would have stuck to not guilty as way too much reasonable doubt if I was a juror. The website put up by the family confirmed that for me. 

One thing that I kept wondering as I watched the show was why everyone thought it had to be Katie as she was the only one in the clinic that day. I kept saying to myself, why could Mary have not brought whatever (drink or pill) in with her from home? One of the things the family brings up as well, in addition to interesting info on Adam. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[cooksdelight]

16 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

why could Mary have not brought whatever (drink or pill) in with her from home

That was my main theory.

[AZChristian]

Either The Innocence Project or Cold Justice needs to take a look at this case.  I'm not convinced that Katie DID or DIDN'T do it.  Too many shady characters in the family that got off with immunity.

[partofme]

I can’t say for 100% sure that Katie was innocent but I couldn’t have convicted her. I was very suspicious of Bill.

Edited December 2, 2017 by partofme

[ridethemaverick]

I watch too many of these shows because the big twist was surprising but not !SHOCKING! the way dateline billed it. I was expecting the twist to be that Katie and Bill were messing around.

[cooksdelight]

15 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

I was expecting the twist to be that Katie and Bill were messing around.

My husband said the same thing when we watched, LOL! It could be the only motive Katie would have had. 

And no, don’t get Cold Justice to look into it, I just watched one where they were speaking to someone on the phone who was impersonating a real witness and they didn’t verify anything.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Thought this episode was well done because I had absolutely no idea how it was going to turn out in the end.

Yeah - it's rare I walk away from one of these things completely baffled but I honestly have no idea what to make of this case. On the one hand, both the husband and the son look sketchy as hell. On the other hand, there's just way too much evidence that points to Katie. My gut instinct was telling me that both Katie and Adam were in cahoots - she actually did most of the leg work but it was his idea and plan and they executed it together. Then she got cold feet and tried to turn him in. 

The only thing is, I would expect at some point the defense to change its story and own up to her part in it if they could deflect most of the blame to Adam. 

Not sure how I would have voted if I'd been on the jury. I definitely have reasonable doubt, but at the same time I do believe she played some part in this.

Edited December 2, 2017 by iMonrey

[Snickerdoodle]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

And did y’all notice the Many Faces of Andrea Canning? OMG, her harsh eyebrows and eyeliner when talking to the sisters, then she’d look totally different in each interview segment.

Oh man, I had the same thought about her eyebrows.  It was distracting.

 

Re: the rest of the Mary Yoder episode.  I thought this episode was well done.  It really kept me guessing.  In the end I thought that Katie did it...the fact that she lead the investigators to the poison in Adam's car and only her DNA was on it was what really made me think it was her.  I don't think that if the Dad were trying to frame Katie that he would involve the son - planting the poison in Adam's car seemed to me to be too much of a risk if Dad was trying to frame Katie.

[Kimmmmmm]

Relieved that I'm not alone in my feelings toward the weeping daughters.  

Not 100% sure who was responsible, but the husband and son are out-and-out creeps.

[ButterQueen]

I would have convicted Katie of second degree murder.  

I don't think the husband or son were creepy....just because the sisters believed they were.

[Ohmo]

11 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

I'm sorry and I feel terrible for saying this but the two daughters annoyed the CRAP out of me with their whining and fake crying

The daughters would be a reason that I would have acquitted Katie.  Not because I think she didn't do it but because I still think Adam or Bill was more likely/also a possibility.

There are women who do project this "sweet/innocent" routine but yet are as cunning as all get out.  Katie could indeed be one of those people.  However, there was also something not right about Bill and Adam.  Either was an equally viable suspect, in my opinion,,,regardless of if they had immunity or not.  They could have gotten away with it.

It was Bill's office.  He could have done whatever any old time he pleased with anyone's equipment.  And Adam wouldn't have had to "hack" anything.  He could have plain old guessed Katie's password to her phone...or even known it outright.

Something about the way the daughters were defending their father and brother...just odd.  It was a red flag for me.

I would have acquitted on the basis of Adam, Bill, and Katie all being viable suspects.  It's far more likely to me that either Adam or Bill managed to get away with it.

[applecrisp]

52 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

I would have convicted Katie of second degree murder.  

I don't think the husband or son were creepy....just because the sisters believed they were.

Why did she write the letter? I just don't get that. It seemed shady.  Just talk to the police.  I wish she had called for a lawyer. I think she deserves what she got.

[Stampiron]

26 minutes ago, Snickerdoodle said:

...

Re: the rest of the Mary Yoder episode.  I thought this episode was well done.  It really kept me guessing.  In the end I thought that Katie did it...the fact that she lead the investigators to the poison in Adam's car and only her DNA was on it was what really made me think it was her.  I don't think that if the Dad were trying to frame Katie that he would involve the son - planting the poison in Adam's car seemed to me to be too much of a risk if Dad was trying to frame Katie.

Katie claimed the son confessed to the crime, so if one believes the Dad did it and framed Katy, then the son has to be involved. So they decided to frame Katie by having the son confess to her and by planting evidence that directly implicates the son in hopes that the police wouldn't believe it and arrest innocent Katie instead. That's some plan! What could go wrong? Seriously though, have you ever heard of a plan to frame someone for a crime that involves the guilty person planting evidence that implicates themselves?

I want to know what's up with the cousin? What's in it for him to be involved in this case testifying against his own cousin when he really doesn't have any knowledge or evidence? I saw a clip of him with a "Free Kaitlyn" sweatshirt.  It made me wonder if he has something going on - or wants to - with Katy.

[Ohmo]

59 minutes ago, Stampiron said:

Katie claimed the son confessed to the crime, so if one believes the Dad did it and framed Katy, then the son has to be involved.

Not necessarily. Dad could have framed both of them.  I don't think that if Dad did it or Adam did it that they were both working together. If Dad's responsible, he uses Katie's computer and typewriter.  He places the cardboard tube in Adam's car.  If it's Adam, he just has to frame Katie.

The use of the computer and typewriter is key to me.   Even if you're cunning, it's a big leap for Katie to knowingly use the equipment at her office.  She could if she was supremely confident, but that along with not asking for a lawyer seven times.  It's possible, I guess, but if I'm going to say that about Katie, I can also make a similar statement about Adam being cunningly confident enough to drive to the police station with evidence in his car.  If Katie is supposedly confident enough to use equipment at her office when she could have placed that order from anywhere, then can't the same be said for Adam?  She's considered suspect because she doesn't accuse him of assault for three months, yet his rebuttal is that he blacked out?  Not a different version of events, but no version of events?

And let's say that Katie is this cunning.  She's going to do all of this to get Adam back?  Again, possible, but why Mary if that's her goal?  Why not make Adam sick and tend to him or make herself sick to get his attention?  A lethal dose of anything seems more likely that you're trying to get something from that person for which you need that person to be gone....which speaks more to a spouse or a child.

The letter speaks to me of genuine gullibility...Katie was trying to be helpful.  Same reason she talked to the cops seven times, and frankly, same reason her gullible parents didn't get a lawyer on speed dial at the police station and her father genuinely thought he could pound on the door and "fix" things.  Apple not falling far from the tree, etc.

I've got a person in my family whom I would genuinely consider to be one of the most gullible trusting people on this planet.  I've also got a person (by marriage) in my family whom I'd consider has the "sweet girl" routine down to an art form, but is not to be trusted.

I think it's far more likely that Katie's gullibility is genuine than she's some mastermind.  If Katie is THAT cunning, then she's got my relation beat.  And I know Katie could very well have been poised enough for Dateline cameras, but she would have let it slip in other situations with other people.   You'd think the prosecution would have found some of those people to bolster their case.  Even if they did, and it wasn't shown, Adam and Dad aren't excluded enough for me, immunity or not.  If Katie is a mastermind, why couldn't Adam or Dad have been smart enough to dupe law enforcement into giving them immunity? Either one of them was around Katie all the time.  They could have figured that her gullibility was like hitting paydirt.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Ohmo

[ari333]

Wow good points above. I was baffled too. I dont think there was enough to convict Katie. Sorry to sound mean, but the whining tone of the sisters - especially the Dr, got on my nerves. I know it is painful and tragic. Also, this is mean, but I didn't see Adam as being a catch for Katie. He wasn't all that imo. She is quite beautiful and could do much better than ADam. There. I said it. Plus he admitted to "slapping her a few times" which to me means there was much more going on with him. 

I didn't trust Bill either and way to ewww me out by dating the sister  after and or before his wife died.  Bill could have put anything in her food anytime at home or office... so could Adam.  They also probably had easy access to Katie's devices.  Also, how would Katie know about colchicine? Bill would. 

Just too much up in the  air for me. ALso, I agree this is the first time after all these shows that I have watched that witnesses (who COULD be the killer) get immunity. Well, if you're the killer go ahead and volunteer for that !!

What did Katie have to gain? MAry was not a tyrant. Bill and or Adam would have something to gain with Mary gone. 

What they didn't explain or I missed it - was how did someone get that much of the drug into her so fast? Or was it done over days? Or was it bc the drug was extra strong and "pure?" That was unclear to me. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by ari333

[Wings]

I have questions, too.  

What did Katie gain by killing her is my biggest one?   How could she have gotten her hands on colchicine?  Bill could have.  It is not a drug that a doctor keeps on hand in his office.  

There are way too many questions that were not answered as listed in the above posts. 

I didn't like the judge demanding the jury continue to work on a consensus.  After days of arguing I might be willing to to with the majority because I was tired of arguing.  I don't like to think I would.  

[atlantaloves]

Oh My God, those sob sisters, I had to fast forward through their whining and crying. Give me a break. Seriously, they should not have been interviewed, the lady who was murdered real sisters were fantastic, but her daughters, I kept yelling, STFU. Me, I think the husband did it. The husband always does it. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by atlantaloves
spelling

[Ohmo]

Quote

What they didn't explain or I missed it - was how did someone get that much of the drug into her so fast? Or was it done over days? Or was it bc the drug was extra strong and "pure?" That was unclear to me. 

They said early in the episode that you had to ingest a lot all at once for it to kill you.  The prosecution made a big deal of that because Katie was the only worker in the office.  The theory was that Katie poisoned Mary there.  However, they mentioned but flew by the fact that Mary was ill after lunch,  What did she eat, and there was no mention of stomach contents being tested.  Even if it was just supplements, that still leaves the possibility that Mary brought them from home, which still makes Adam and Dad possibilities, in my opinion.

Agreed about the judge, especially with the speed that the verdict came down after he said that.  Seems like there should be some grounds for appeal in there.

[ari333]

I understand people crying. It was the whining baby voices that made me cray. And if you take supplements you take 1, 2, 3 a day not 40 or 60. Someone had to have dosed a smoothie or shake or something.

[Ohmo]

9 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

The husband always does it. 

I think hubby is likely, but my money's still on Adam because of Katie.  Boyfriend duping sweet, trusting ex-girlfriend seems more likely, especially if she's right there in his parents' office.  I also think that Adam's more likely because using Katie's phone seems like a move that a millennial would think of...and he's likely to know her passwords or be able to guess them.

[ari333]

1 minute ago, Ohmo said:

They said early in the episode that you had to ingest a lot all at once for it to kill you.  The prosecution made a big deal of that because Katie was the only worker in the office.  The theory was that Katie poisoned Mary there.  However, they mentioned but flew by the fact that Mary was ill after lunch,  What did she eat, and there was no mention of stomach contents being tested.  Even if it was just supplements, that still leaves the possibility that Mary brought them from home, which still makes Adam and Dad possibilities, in my opinion.

Agreed about the judge, especially with the speed that the verdict came down after he said that.  Seems like there should be some grounds for appeal in there.

Yes, exactly. Did she bring lunch from home? We dont know, do we? MAny healthy people do that for diet reasons and nutrition. They dont eat fast food /restaurant food etc.

There were odd things. Adam driving to the LE with the bottle under his car seat. That seemed odd and stupid....OR.... extremely calculated. Also unless Katie was super gullible, as mentioned, why did she write the letter AND admit to it? I was stumped. Unless maybe Adam said he was coming into money and she was in on it with him. I just dont think she did it or didn't do it alone.

But now dad and son (the only other two who look fishy) have immunity so this will never go away and KAtie is probably toast and in for the long haul  unless some law group helps her. A;so if she searched the drug after the death I dontfind that weird.

2 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I think hubby is likely, but my money's still on Adam because of Katie.  Boyfriend duping sweet, trusting ex-girlfriend seems more likely, especially if she's right there in his parents' office.  I also think that Adam's more likely because using Katie's phone seems like a move that a millennial would think of...and he's likely to know her passwords or be able to guess them.

yes..... I'm torn bw hubby and Adam unless they were in it together. Seems like MAry would have had life insurance. Was that mentioned?

Also, hubby came into 400 thousand.and he was boffing the sister in law. If he got divorced, would he have to split the money?

[mythoughtis]

According to the detective Bill was not contacting the sister by phone, etc, until after Mary died. The only person to say otherwise was a neighbor of the sister  who thought she had seen Bill there before Mary died. Now, quick, go back several months - can you say what exact day/week/month you saw your neighbor with a visitor outside of their home? And can you say for a fact what the expression on their faces were? Because this  neighbor supposedly could.   

We shouldn’t convict or accuse someone without real evidence, there wasn’t any for Bill or Adam. There was for Katie.  She wrote the letter, she knew where the pills were, she touched the wrapper. The email account was accessed only on her phone or laptop. She bought the prepaid debit cards used to buy the stuff.  If I am going to vote guilty for any of the 3, it has to be her. 

As for the immunity- that’s a good lawyer talking. Costs the state nothing to give immunity to a person they don’t  believe is guilty.  who knows what you will get asked on the stand that could incriminate you in other matters- drugs, tax evasion, etc. 

[atlantaloves]

Ahhhhhhh man, to Mythoughts, know what you, may be right, I take back that I think the husband did it, but he's still a jerk. 

[Lizzing]

I've got some questions about the drug that didn't seem to be answered by the show.  The cop said that to reach toxicity levels, a person would have to ingest 40 to 60 tablets, based on the size of the person.  However, IIRC, the drug found in the son's car was in a vial, as a liquid that would be injected in concentration.  So, how much of that concentrated liquid would need to be injected/ingested to cause death?  Was there enough missing from the vial to have caused Mary's death? The cops searched the office, but did they test any of the food containers for traces of the drug?  How could just any one order this gout medication in vial form anyway?  Chiropractors can't prescribe meds, so it wouldn't have been under Mary's license.  And the prosecutors were able to haul in someone from the drug company who took the order, so it wasn't some kind of internet overseas drug operation, otherwise they wouldn't have had the lady with the multicolored hair testify.  And if the theory was that Katie used the same drug to try to poison Adam by putting it in his supplements, how does one inject a liquid into capsules and it not leak everywhere, and if it was pill form used to poison him, where was the order for the pill form of the drug?

The other thing that was inexplicable to me was why didn't the hospital call the cops?  They suspected poisoning and had CONFIRMED it was a poisoning, so are they not mandated to report suspicious deaths to the cops?

Andrea Canning episodes are so heavy on the personal sob stories (the sisters crying non stop, Katie woefully grooming a horse) and light on asking important questions.  I'm glad I fought to urge to delete it when I found out she was the correspondent, but again there were too many unaddressed questions for me to deem it a good episode.