All Episodes Discussion

[walnutqueen]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I just watched last night's episode about Sarah Goode. So many people to be pissed off at in this one.

The sisters and BIL - I was waiting for the defense to include them in their frame-up strategy. They don't sound like very nice people. I am betting BIL is divorced from whichever sister he was married to. And the husbands of these women probably don't want to be lumped into the lynch mob personna.

The nosy neighbor - she didn't bother me as much until she talked about following him in her car. It's bad enough she was watching him with binoculars. Alice Kravitz would be proud.

I also wanted more details about how the guy killed her and the timeline. Since he claims he's innocent, I guess we'll never know.

Alice Kravitz - that reference just bought you a hundred points *(or Green Stamps) in my book,.

Ignore this - backspace & delete don't work  and my nearly new Chromebook is charging on my  unreachable desk ... os)

[RedheadZombie]

I could not agree more with everyone on the vigilante, witness-intimidating, crime-scene tampering, mafioso wanna-be family!  They did not solve this crime, for cripes sake, and I could not believe Andrea's unctuous, overly sympathetic handling of the family.  I think she and the producers seriously over estimated the public's reaction to these people. 

And can we talk about the reaction if this were a black family?  Five huge, menacing black men circling the crime scene for hours, intimidating the cops, stalking perceived perpetrators, throwing people up against things and threatening lives?  Every one of them would be in jail right now.  And the prosecutors would not be talking about how sympathetic they are.  They would be called "thugs" and "dangerous" and accused of taking the law into their own hands. 

All that family did was impede the investigation, and stumble upon her body.  A better defense attorney would have gotten the entire case thrown out due to witness tampering and intimidation, the accused being hunted like a dog by some nosey paranoid woman, and potential crime scene manipulation.  

But then he was a black man accused of killing a white woman.  His fate was sealed. Not that I believe he's innocent.   Not that I pity him. But this was absolutely outrageous. 

[imjagain]

Yes, that family was seriously annoying. Of course I feel for them and for Sarah. I just couldn't stand them. They really just seemed to think they were right in their behavior. 

@RedheadZombieI agree, about Andrea and the producers overestimating the viewers reaction to that family.  I couldn't understand Andrea's almost amused attitude towards the bil and the sisters. 

I also thought it was odd that the bil still painted Sarah's nails. 

[walnutqueen]

57 minutes ago, imjagain said:

I also thought it was odd that the bil still painted Sarah's nails. 

Odd?  You are too kind.  It's flat out fuckin' creepy, in my book.  :-D

[imjagain]

2 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Odd?  You are too kind.  It's flat out fuckin' creepy, in my book.  :-D

LOL! OK yes very creepy. 

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

 They did not solve this crime, for cripes sake, and I could not believe Andrea's unctuous, overly sympathetic handling of the family.  I think she and the producers seriously over estimated the public's reaction to these people. 

Yes, whatever Andrea was trying to do, it didn't work.  A few times she seemed to be egging  Nick on with questions like, "When you saw him at the trial what did you want to do?"  but you never sensed that she disagreed with the,  "Tear him limb from limb," kind of answer.  I think Josh would have had just the right  attitude for this case.  Nick wouldn't have known that Josh's sneer was  directed at him and not the suspect. Keith's more sophisticated demeanor might have resulted in a punch in the nose from the New Jersey Neanderthal.

This makes me wonder if sometimes the families refuse to be part of the show if they don't get the interviewer they want.

[RedheadZombie]

OK, I wasn't going to mention it, but the Sarah and Nail Painter relationship gave me some bad vibes.  In the picture they showed of them in adulthood, she's posed in a way a woman typically poses with her boyfriend/husband.  Breasts turned into the man's chest with a subtle bootie pop, and his hand a little too close to her ass.  It's a pose I have never taken with a male family member.  I'm sure I'm way off base, but it made me feel some type of way (I've never used this ridiculous saying, but it seems to fit).

[ButterQueen]

On 3/4/2017 at 4:15 AM, walnutqueen said:

No shit.  That statement was creepier than lotion in a basket.

Help me with the lotion in a basket comparison?  Thanks.  ?

[bubbls]

Quote

And can we talk about the reaction if this were a black family?  Five huge, menacing black men circling the crime scene for hours, intimidating the cops, stalking perceived perpetrators, throwing people up against things and threatening lives?  

 

I'm really tired today, and I guess I'm feeling a little punch drunk because this visual has had me cackling over and over again! 

[ButterQueen]

18 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I just watched last night's episode about Sarah Goode. So many people to be pissed off at in this one.

The sisters and BIL - I was waiting for the defense to include them in their frame-up strategy. They don't sound like very nice people. I am betting BIL is divorced from whichever sister he was married to. And the husbands of these women probably don't want to be lumped into the lynch mob personna.

The nosy neighbor - she didn't bother me as much until she talked about following him in her car. It's bad enough she was watching him with binoculars. Alice Kravitz would be proud.

I also wanted more details about how the guy killed her and the timeline. Since he claims he's innocent, I guess we'll never know.

I'm going to do some research because that timeline made no sense.  

[walnutqueen]

Just now, ButterQueen said:

Help me with the lotion in a basket comparison?  Thanks.  ?

I'm probably mis-remembering and mis-quoting, but in Silence of the Lambs the deranged killer had the damsel-in-distress down a pit, or a well or something.  He'd lower lotion down to her in a basket to soften her skin so he could sew a human flesh suit.

[ButterQueen]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I could not agree more with everyone on the vigilante, witness-intimidating, crime-scene tampering, mafioso wanna-be family!  They did not solve this crime, for cripes sake, and I could not believe Andrea's unctuous, overly sympathetic handling of the family.  I think she and the producers seriously over estimated the public's reaction to these people. 

And can we talk about the reaction if this were a black family?  Five huge, menacing black men circling the crime scene for hours, intimidating the cops, stalking perceived perpetrators, throwing people up against things and threatening lives?  Every one of them would be in jail right now.  And the prosecutors would not be talking about how sympathetic they are.  They would be called "thugs" and "dangerous" and accused of taking the law into their own hands. 

All that family did was impede the investigation, and stumble upon her body.  A better defense attorney would have gotten the entire case thrown out due to witness tampering and intimidation, the accused being hunted like a dog by some nosey paranoid woman, and potential crime scene manipulation.  

But then he was a black man accused of killing a white woman.  His fate was sealed. Not that I believe he's innocent.   Not that I pity him. But this was absolutely outrageous. 

I don't believe any defense attorney could have gotten him off.  Her blood in his car, his handprint on her car in Sarah's blood, the matching semen and the cell phone records.  He was screwed!  The family was just horrible.

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I'm probably mis-remembering and mis-quoting, but in Silence of the Lambs the deranged killer had the damsel-in-distress down a pit, or a well or something.  He'd lower lotion down to her in a basket to soften her skin so he could sew a human flesh suit.

Oh dear God.  ?

[walnutqueen]

9 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

Oh dear God.  ?

I should have posted an FBI warning or something before that, eh?  ;-)

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

I'm going to do some research because that timeline made no sense.  

Please let us know if you find anything. It left me with the impression that a guy she just met called her in the middle of the night and wanted to hook up. And she let him in.

[ButterQueen]

1 minute ago, cooksdelight said:

Please let us know if you find anything. It left me with the impression that a guy she just met called her in the middle of the night and wanted to hook up. And she let him in.

The killer drove to her house.  She came out, and the murder was committed in her car.

[cooksdelight]

Yeah, as though they were going parking....since she lived with her mother. But mom wasn't home, I think? It's all so strange.

[ButterQueen]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Yeah, as though they were going parking....since she lived with her mother. But mom wasn't home, I think? It's all so strange.

The only thing I can find is an article that says her nose was broken, likely inside her car, and she was pulled out of the car through the passenger side while sitting in the driver's seat.  That's some rage!  I still don't think this happened in front of her house, but cannot find any other info.  I'll check for a Facebook page.

[Mama No Life]

Well the car was found in a close-by neighborhood, right? Eagle Estates or something? 

[Ina123]

I'm still wondering why they just glossed over the "left the Marines" part and this from a newspaper just makes me wonder more:

It has also been revealed that Taylor joined the Marine Corps on September 23 or last year only to see the 'end of his active service' on April 22, according to Newsday. A military spokesperson declined to discuss the circumstances surrounding the end of Taylor's time in uniform.

I bet he assaulted a woman while in the Marine Corps. Possibly a dishonorable discharge?

 

[cooksdelight]

2 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Well the car was found in a close-by neighborhood, right? Eagle Estates or something? 

It was right down the street from her house.

Yeah, his discharge is suspect. My nephew is a Marine, he said the only way you leave during basic training is if they tell you to leave. He did something, that's for sure. Or they deemed him medically unfit to serve.

[Whimsy]

6 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

It was right down the street from her house.

Yeah, his discharge is suspect. My nephew is a Marine, he said the only way you leave during basic training is if they tell you to leave. He did something, that's for sure. Or they deemed him medically unfit to serve.

After 7 months- he was no longer in basic training.  But, it still applied.  You have to do something pretty bad or be medically unfit to be discharged after 7 months into your four year contract. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:31 PM, walnutqueen said:

I'm probably mis-remembering and mis-quoting, but in Silence of the Lambs the deranged killer had the damsel-in-distress down a pit, or a well or something.  He'd lower lotion down to her in a basket to soften her skin so he could sew a human flesh suit.

[walnutqueen]

29 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

 

I HATE you, RHZ.  AND ... I LURVE you.

But no more doggies in danger. Ever again.  'Kay?

[UsernameFatigue]

This was another case that could have been a one hour episode that they dragged out to two hours. Way too much of interviewing the family and the brother in law. It seemed to me that she/the car was found a block or so over from her mother's home as she lived on a dead end street and there was a dead end sign where the car was found. I also found the best friend to be a very poor interview. Andrea C. seemed to get visibly annoyed as it was like pulling teeth to get the friend to put two sentences together without being prompted.

Finally I absolutely hated the defense attorneys. I know it is their job to try to get their client off (and for POS clients like this one, I think it is a crappy job) but their attempts to discredit the evidence were laughable. Not to mention this is the guy's MO. If I were a jury I would be annoyed that the defense attorneys would think I was that stupid. OTOH they did take three days to convict......

[bubbls]

After all the hilarious comments I had to watch the Sarah Goode episode. I was immediately annoyed by the family but figured I was influenced by y'all. Uh, no. No, I wasn't. Tight knit is a euphemism for meddlesome IMO. And when they were talking about stampeding the car before the cops opened the trunk I thought "Really, people? You really want to pop that trunk and see your possibly dead, beat up, raped sister and have that image in your head forever?" However, I loved what the judge said. It was perfect. Did anyone think Dante was trying not to smirk though? He sure looked like it to me. Enjoy the rest of your useless life in prison, Pretty Boy. 

[CaughtOnTape]

On 3/11/2017 at 7:08 AM, BusyOctober said:

I also had no love or sympathy for the "childhood friend" who claims the cops choked and spit on him.  He was a bit shady and obviously had some legal troubles aside from this case.  He came across as a smug punk. 

Yes.  He was repeating to himself not to smile through that entire interview.  Complete dipshit.  "I had a roll of toilet paper under my head."  Tee hee....

You're a moron.  Go sit in a corner until you can mature past six years old.

[psychoticstate]

On 3/13/2017 at 10:53 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

This was another case that could have been a one hour episode that they dragged out to two hours. Way too much of interviewing the family and the brother in law. It seemed to me that she/the car was found a block or so over from her mother's home as she lived on a dead end street and there was a dead end sign where the car was found. I also found the best friend to be a very poor interview. Andrea C. seemed to get visibly annoyed as it was like pulling teeth to get the friend to put two sentences together without being prompted.

Finally I absolutely hated the defense attorneys. I know it is their job to try to get their client off (and for POS clients like this one, I think it is a crappy job) but their attempts to discredit the evidence were laughable. Not to mention this is the guy's MO. If I were a jury I would be annoyed that the defense attorneys would think I was that stupid. OTOH they did take three days to convict......

Yep.  Exactly what I thought while watching it and after - - why does Dateline drag some of these episodes out for 2 hours and the ones that are truly interesting with a lot of information, they condense into an  hour?  Why?  

I'm trying to figure out how, when Sarah's car was found the next day, they didn't locate her body for another 6 days?  That area wasn't that large and it seemed like it was mostly residential.  So how, if scads of people were searching for her in those woods, where her car was discovered, did they miss her body? 

[Stampiron]

Prosecutors said today they will seek the Death Penalty if Hupp is convicted:

"ST. CHARLES COUNTY • Prosecutors here on Thursday said they would seek the death penalty if Pamela Hupp is convicted of murdering a 33-year-old disabled man last year.

The aggravating factor justifying the death penalty is that the murder was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible or inhuman in that it involved torture, or depravity of mind..."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/prosecutors-vow-to-seek-death-penalty-in-pamela-hupp-murder/article_8c7df82c-1e99-549b-aaf3-f7970591a72a.html

[biakbiak]

I don't know that I have seen a police detectives with two full tattoo sleeves before, for the most part he didnt bother me but I didn't like that he had his unholstered gun tucked into his belt when he was playing pool.

The female Motta attorney seemed unhinged jn the few clips they showed of her.  I also thought it was weird to include the fact that the defense team was watching the Cubs in the playoffs.

Killing an 11 year old boy because his dad was involved in your termination is crazy evil. 

Did they say if Garcia was medicated during the trial? I wondered if that was why he was sleeping during it.

[hoosiermom]

16 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

 

Did they say if Garcia was medicated during the trial? I wondered if that was why he was sleeping during it.

I don't recall them saying he was medicated and that's why he slept through half the trial. I did think the defense team were taken aback by it. Makes it difficult to have faith in your client!

[cooksdelight]

No, he wasn't medicated. He just didn't care by that point, I think.

That defense team was a joke. The son of the famous lawyer thought he was all that and a bag of chips. The guy who was assisting them couldn't pronounce rigor mortis correctly, so I don't think any of them have anything to brag about. Especially the wife, who should have known blabbing pre-trial about DNA was going to get her in hot water. She should be disbarred altogether.

His parents were victims as well, I felt sorry for them that the son they thought was their golden boy turned out to be a psychopath.

[Lizzing]

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I don't know that I have seen a police detectives with two full tattoo sleeves before, for the most part he didnt bother me but I didn't like that he had his unholstered gun tucked into his belt when he was playing pool.

His gun in his waistband really distracted me.  First, does he think he's going to need to shoot Mankiewicz during the interview?  And second, wouldn't it be very uncomfortable to have a gun barrel poking into your abdomen as you lean over to make a shot on the pool table?  I'm pretty sure that holsters are legit business expenses of cops, so there's no reason not to have one and a shoulder holster would look more badass than the gun tucked in the front of the pants.  That look screams "suburban dad who has no clue but wants to be a badass". LOL!

 

46 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

That defense team was a joke. The son of the famous lawyer thought he was all that and a bag of chips. The guy who was assisting them couldn't pronounce rigor mortis correctly, so I don't think any of them have anything to brag about. Especially the wife, who should have known blabbing pre-trial about DNA was going to get her in hot water. She should be disbarred altogether.

God, they were the WORST!  I was entertaining the notion that they (the defense team) let Dateline film part to document how horrible they were to tee up a potential ineffective assistance of counsel appeal by the defendant.  With this group of idiot lawyers, I felt sorry for the family of the perp for wasting money on the defense team.  You know the parents bankrolled the rental of that big house, all of the takeout they were eating, and the cable bill for watching the World Series.    That's not to say that I don't feel sorry for the victims and their families; of course they experienced great tragedy and I'm glad they got justice.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, Lizzing said:

wouldn't it be very uncomfortable to have a gun barrel poking into your abdomen as you lean over to make a shot on the pool table?

My fiance said, "He doesn't know how to shoot pool" watching the cop, so I think this might have been a setup so that Josh could say "going in all directions" while waving a hand toward the table.

[BusyOctober]

Haaaaaaated the defense team from the jump.  The husband and wife's arrogance and lack of self-awareness is exactly why many people think lawyers are sketchy.  The local attorney assisting them (after wifey and her "brassy broad bravado" effed up) was no better.  They looked like they were auditioning for a show of their own. "Get a shot of us in a <<cough cough>> heated argument!  Now look at us just chilling in a local pub after a long day of lawyerin'.  We are young Turks! Good looking and hip!  We are too cool for school and ready to shake up this town!" Um, that shows already on NBC.  It's called Chicago Law. 

Our laws provide for a vigorous defense for the accused, but I just find it abhorrent that attorneys can defend some of these evil people- Manson, Bundy, McVeigh...  Mr. Motta Sr. defended John Wayne Gacy???? I feel like I need to shower just typing that name. 

I don't think that insanity is automatically an excuse for a murder (or FOUR!), but there was obviously some psychosis going on with Garcia.  And I don't buy Motta Jr.'s attempt to blame solitary confinement for Garcia's diminished capacity; that man was mentally ill prior to being caught. Aside from the victims' families, I do feel a lot of sympathy for Garcia's family too.  Those poor parents are probably financially and emotionally broken.

[saber5055]

Yes, the pool-shooting was set up so Josh could say his scripted line of dialogue. I didn't see the gun in the cop's waistband and could care less if he had 20 guns hanging on him while he plays pool. So what. I didn't notice he had sleeves, but good on him for that, too. Anyway, that defense team hired by cold-calling every Illinois lawyer in the middle of the night ... well, I guess you get what you pay for, although in this case the parents didn't get much for all their bankroll. What a bunch of maroons. But at least they did not pay for cable viewing of the World Series, that was network, free for antenna tv people. And the only thing I don't blame the defense team for is watching the Cubs win. It was THE GREATEST EVENT OF 2016, bar none. But back to the defense guys ... dad actually defended John Wayne Gacy? Holy cr*p. Those guys were all about the $ at any cost. Anyway, I did enjoy this episode and was glad Garcia was found guilty. I'm guessing Creighton was not a good place to be for a very long time, until this guy was put in jail. Good on the cops who found, caught and put Garcia there, they can wear all the waistband guns they want. I do wonder what kind of treatment suspects get after a Dateline like this one, meaning that doctor who is in the Northwest now, the one they kept questioning. Can't be good for business. Or maybe it's an example of any publicity is good publicity?

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

didn't see the gun in the cop's waistband and could care less if he had 20 guns hanging on him while he plays pool. So what

Because it's not proper gun safety and I expect more from law enforcement professionals.

[saber5055]

Nebraska law enforcement carries Glock 22 and sometimes .40 Smith & Wesson. I didn't see the gun in question so I don't know which this officer had in his waistband. I also could not see IF IT WAS LOADED or EMPTY. The safest gun of all is the empty one. I'm guessing Dateline film crew, Josh and the officer were in no peril from an empty gun, regardless of where it was worn. Glocks also have a three-part safety system to prevent firing unless the trigger is manually pulled. YMMV, as always, of course.

[Tipsymcstagger]

Jesus Christ...were those lawyers the absolute worst or what? Their intimations of police frame ups and the amazing logic pretzels they created in the face of an utter abundance of circumstantial evidence was astounding. They embodied almost every awful stereotype of defense attorneys possible. I guess the only thing they didn't do was attack the victims. And I'm actually surprised that wasn't in their "arsenal" as well. I can't imagine their performance won them many fans. It wasn't expert lawyering - it was publicity hungry shenanigans. And boy did they all think they were too cool for school.  The husband and wife were world class dorks. Yuck all around....

[callmebetty]

And add that when the husband got the call he says "I wake up Angela Motta my partner and tell her...." It was like an advertisement. 

I'm glad they caught the guy and he was convicted.  I would love to know what he did exactly to get kicked out of Creighton. But to hold that type of grudge and kill people, especially a kid who had nothing to do with what happened to him, he was screwed up long before solitary confinement. 

[unlfan03]

44 minutes ago, Tipsymcstagger said:

Jesus Christ...were those lawyers the absolute worst or what? Their intimations of police frame ups and the amazing logic pretzels they created in the face of an utter abundance of circumstantial evidence was astounding. They embodied almost every awful stereotype of defense attorneys possible. I guess the only thing they didn't do was attack the victims. And I'm actually surprised that wasn't in their "arsenal" as well. I can't imagine their performance won them many fans. It wasn't expert lawyering - it was publicity hungry shenanigans. And boy did they all think they were too cool for school.  The husband and wife were world class dorks. Yuck all around....

I am from the Omaha area originally and spent last night watching the episode with my area family discussing it as it went on. @callmebetty per the Omaha World-Herald, Garcia was fired in 2000 for calling a resident while he was taking a medical licensing exam and telling him that his vacation time wasn’t approved (a pretty dirty move but one thinks there would be more than that).  @cooksdelight getting disbarred in Illinois takes a lot, but I do know that there was talk of the the local ambulance chaser who couldn't say rigor mortis has action against him in the state courts and is not able to argue before the 8th Circuit court of Appeal (which is where this case is going I'm sure) due to dropping the ball on other of his public defender clients (and now he is going to work for the Matta's law firm). No they didn't win many fans, pretty much the whole team was seen as a bunch of out-of-town jerks who thought they could walk over the local hick police officers and get an easy win. I think the public opinion around here about the defendant is that his falling asleep in the court room as well as other shannagins are delay tactics. As they said at the end of the show he has not been sentenced yet, though they didn't say it was because he has kept silent in court which means that he is unable to help in his own defense so it is back to the state mental institution for evaluation and dragging the case out another month.

[UsernameFatigue]

Love coming on here to find that everyone else was as disgusted as I was with the defense team. Possibly even more so than with the murderer himself. Right from the father-who-defended-Gacy saying he would come back and try a case with his son if it was a "juicy murder". WTF? I laughed when Josh M. said that in an unusual move the defense team allowed Dateline's cameras to film their strategy sessions. Are you kidding me? These famewhores would have paid Dateline to get more camera time. Undoubtedly with funds from the poor parents of the accused. 

I didn't notice the gun in the waistband of the cop's pants when he and Josh were playing pool, but I did think it was an odd way to interview someone. Stick to normal interviewing please - I don't need to see some guy bonding activity while hearing about a murder investigation. 

My overwhelming feeling, listening to the defense and their ridiculous attempts to explain away the evidence, coupled with filming of their strategy sessions, was that they figured they were such a hot shot dream team that they would get their client off, no problem. Then they would become household names like OJ's lawyers and numerous documentaries and docudramas would be made about them.

Instead they really should hope that Garcia doesn't find a way to escape prison, because I am pretty sure they would be next on his hit list.

Edited March 18, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Haaaaaaated the defense team from the jump.  The husband and wife's arrogance and lack of self-awareness is exactly why many people think lawyers are sketchy.  The local attorney assisting them (after wifey and her "brassy broad bravado" effed up) was no better.  They looked like they were auditioning for a show of their own. "Get a shot of us in a <<cough cough>> heated argument!  Now look at us just chilling in a local pub after a long day of lawyerin'.  We are young Turks! Good looking and hip!  We are too cool for school and ready to shake up this town!" Um, that shows already on NBC.  It's called Chicago Law. 

Jumping on your hate train to add; I can't stand people who have to get a high five from their friends every time they take a drink of water without dribbling. 

 

Solitary confinement for three years before going to trial?  I have no sympathy for Garcia, but wasn't solitary confinement determined to be cruel and unusual punishment a long time ago?  What if someone was subjected to that for three years and then the jury decided they were innocent?  Whose going to give them their sanity back?

[RedheadZombie]

21 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Nebraska law enforcement carries Glock 22 and sometimes .40 Smith & Wesson. I didn't see the gun in question so I don't know which this officer had in his waistband. I also could not see IF IT WAS LOADED or EMPTY. The safest gun of all is the empty one. I'm guessing Dateline film crew, Josh and the officer were in no peril from an empty gun, regardless of where it was worn. Glocks also have a three-part safety system to prevent firing unless the trigger is manually pulled. YMMV, as always, of course.

I'm no gun expert, but would there ever be a scenario that calls for an unloaded gun shoved down the front of your pants?  Sounds like a poseur.

[saber5055]

I was interested in knowing more about: 1. How Garcia's gun was found on the side of a road near Terre Haute, Indiana, And 2. how that gun was linked to Garcia and the murders given he left no fingerprints. I just wanted to know more about how they did it. As for those "lawyers," I'm thinking along the lines of other posters: They were grabbing their 15 minutes of Dateline fame and hoping to move on to their own reality show. They had all the parts of at least one season, the villain (wife), the "famous" guy (Gacy lawyer) plus Chicago Everything is big on NBC right now. I also wondered about Garcia being in solitary confinement. I'm thinking it might have been more like they kept him out of gen pop so he had a cell by himself. And thanks, unlfan03, for some inside scoop. Yeah, Garcia's actions/non-actions were definite stalling tactics, no doubt given to him by his cold-called lawyers.

[saber5055]

I was thinking why Garcia killed the boy Tom and the cleaning lady. I supposed he came to the door to see/kill the doctor, and the door was opened by the cleaning lady. A “colleage” doctor who knew her boss would have seemed normal and safe to the cleaning lady, so she invited him in to wait for the doctors to come home. Then he "had to" kill the woman or she would have told doctors Garcia had been there and his identify would have been revealed. When Tom came to see who was at the door, or heard the housekeeper get knocked down, Garcia had to kill him too. The woman doctor whose house alarm was set off by Garcia has to have nightmares every night. I know I would.

This is all clearly my own speculation, of course. YMMV!

[Stampiron]

I liked that Dateline included the victim's family's thoughts on the woman being referred to as "The cleaning lady." It must be really hard for a family to have their murdered loved-one reduced to such a narrow, shallow role. I get why we do that - and I'm not objecting to anyone here referring to her that way - but it's got to really bother the family to see that over and over again in the media.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

how that gun was linked to Garcia and the murders given he left no fingerprints.

It was registered to Garcia, they found other parts of it at the murder scene, he left some DNA somewhere.... I honestly can't remember where at this point. 

[psychoticstate]

36 minutes ago, Stampiron said:

I liked that Dateline included the victim's family's thoughts on the woman being referred to as "The cleaning lady." It must be really hard for a family to have their murdered loved-one reduced to such a narrow, shallow role. I get why we do that - and I'm not objecting to anyone here referring to her that way - but it's got to really bother the family to see that over and over again in the media.

Agreed.  This must be how the Goldman family has felt for years with Ron Goldman consistently being referred to as "Nicole's friend," and "former model/wannabe actor," etc. 

[saber5055]

Thanks cooks, you are right, the gun was registered to Garcia. I had forgotten that part. Funny, he removed the barrel so no ballistics test could be done, yet he registered a weapon he was going to use in a homicide. Indiana is known for its gun shows where anyone can buy anything w/o a background check. Then the next gun he bought was traced back to him, too, via legal paperwork. So odd. My take away from this episode: pay for everything with cash. Use a burner phone and trash any hard drive you use to research your victims. And bury the murder weapon a few states away.

[cooksdelight]

Also, don't go anywhere that there's a surveillance camera. People are so stupid when they commit crimes. You'd think they never watch these shows! :)