All Episodes Discussion

[applecrisp]

Wow, what a difference between this case and the other case where the hit man had a change of heart and confessed before hurting the wife. How staunchly those two daughters stood by their mother you know, normal human behavior) they even changed their last names to their mom's name. This case left me sad. Poor lady. Like others have said, I hope she has other family and friends who support her. Those daughters are delusional.

Good Point!  I really am not sure how this would have played out.  I really think the daughters would be more adamant that their beloved father would not do that.  Would they have stayed married?  Not pleasant to think about. 

 

Still wonder about the mistress.

[druzy]

My guess is that he wanted to have Casino Chick while still keeping his reputation as the nicest guy in Carrollton.  It must have been hard for such a cold hearted man to faithfully attend church and charity functions all those years just to win the admiration of everyone in town.  He wouldn't have wanted all that effort to go to waste, a divorce from Nancy would have tarnished his halo a little bit.

It wouldn't be hard for a sociopath- he does have some of the characteristics of one http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

[Ohmo]

I know that people do actually have roommates who are just friends, but this scenario seemed to have trouble written all over it.

 

In other news, condolences to Josh Mankiewicz on the passing of his father.  Brian Williams reported it on the news.  I like Keith Morrison, but I also like Josh's narration as well.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Ohmo

[imjagain]

Very sad.

I knew it was the roommate.

[walnutqueen]

Well, at least it was a story that hasn't been done to death - bonus points for not trying to stretch it to 2 hours.

 

That roommate set off my alarm bells from the start. 

[ari333]

Holy crap. The Joey/Joy roommate gave me the serious chillie-wills. Smart of her to call ahead and have it recorded. I wish she had gone with her gut and just gotten the hell out. There's a dude who wrote a book on safety called, "The Gift of Fear." It is a must read for everyone, not just women.

 

So sad.

 

Additionally, I was thinking.. ok the guy is a chemist, so he has to be smart. First, why did he not have his OWN computer? Also, how stupid can he be to Google those things on the public library computer? Jesus. I just couldn't believe it.

Good that KC did do the computer map search thing though to the grave because she probably wouldn't have been found otherwise.

[JudyObscure]

Young pretty woman rooming with old, lonely man.  Of course, he's going to fall in love with her.  Most of them wouldn't turn violent but it would be awkward at best.  Such a shame, she made it home from the war and then this happened.

 

One thing I'm learning, from this one and other ones, like the young woman, a few weeks ago, who was attacked while hiking with her dog -- women don't have much chance against a man's strength.  This was a combat trained, young woman against a skinny, old man and the hiker was trained in martial arts.

[ChristmasJones]

I simply love the fact that the police happened to be recording his internet use on the day that he read about the search for her and then went and zoomed in on exactly where he dumped her body. THAT was pure awesomeness. I love when a tiny piece of data on a computer or cell phone yields so much information in a case

 

It reminds me of a case (I think also on Dateline) where a college kid killed his friend and then turned his phone off when he drove out to dump the body. But he used the Flashlight app on his phone at 4am when he was trying to bury the body, and that helped bust him.

[car54]

I too knew immediately the roomate was the do-er.   What a fool to google the site where he left the body.

She seemed like such a cool woman, it's sad she didn't go with her gut and get him out sooner.

[Diana Berry]

I was a familiar with this one ( I think from inside edition) but Dateline you got to me in the end. I got real teary eyed with the graduation. So sad.

[Teddybear]

 

In other news, condolences to Josh Mankiewicz on the passing of his father.  Brian Williams reported it on the news.  I like Keith Morrison, but I also like Josh's narration as well.

i live in LA and see celebrities all the time and couldn't care less.  But when I saw Josh M. at my supermarket, and I got all flustered.  I love him, his voice, and how he tells stories! 

 

And since i live in LA, I had recently seen the verdict on the news so I knew it was the roommate from the beginning.  So sad; such a young beautiful, ambitious woman who was only trying to be nice.  

[zxy556575]

What a fool to google the site where he left the body.

 

I mean ... what was he trying to accomplish? Relive the thrill of the kill? Or did he somehow think the body was going to be visible on a satellite image taken months or years before?

 

Not sure why an employed person was so broke he couldn't pay his rent or afford his own computer, either. Gambling? Strippers? Working as a day laborer because no one would hire such a creepy chemist?

[photo fox]

A cryptic 911 call made days before a young Army veteran disappears helps detectives uncover the truth, exposing a twisted story of unrequited love.

[BusyOctober]

I don't get the daughters' behavior at all.  Sure. they can still love someone when they have committed a crime & choose to remember the dad as they knew him in their childhoods..  BUT, as much as they love him and maybe even forgive them for the harm he caused, I can't understand how they completely disregard their mother's plight.  Just a bunch of weirdos and I hope Nancy has some happiness in her future.  I'm not a religious person but it makes me feel a wee bit better that this woman feels loved and consoled by God and her faith.

 

I didn't get the typical Dateline (or 20/20 or 48 Hours or Discovery ID...) vibe that "the husband did it"  in the first 5 minutes. I was fooled for the first time into thinking Frank/John really was a good guy!  I was guessing the son like some other posters since he was strangely absent from this story.  The idea the murder for hire is a "better" resolution than divorce just boggles the mind.  If these spouses are so miserable in their marriages, use the money you'd pay some bumble-fuck hit man and hire the best lawyer you can afford instead! A really good divorce attorney may be able to reduce some of the financial "loss" the spouse would get hit with, but instead these idiots roll the dice and risk jail or even death penalty? 

[photo fox]

When young mother and wife from upstate New York mysteriously vanishes, the authorities on the case find some unexpected secrets that leave them wondering if her disappearance is related to her online life, or something much closer.

[LakeGal]

I didn't like the husband Remy from the beginning.  He came off as guilty to me.  I just could not figure out why the best friend had an affair with him.  Maybe they both felt neglected by the wife when she became too involved in her online game.  That is the only thing I can think would bring them together.  Remy did not seem like anyone she would have been attracted to especially when she already had a husband.   

[patty1h]

As soon as Dateline episodes start, I Google the subjects to see what the outcome was.  So it was a little shocking to see that the husband has been accused of murdering his wife.  This is the second Dateline that faked me by interviewing a husband of a murdered woman and never implying that he had anything to do with it.  There was one a few weeks ago with the same setup;  I get fooled cause the husband isn't in a prison setting, in regular clothing.  

 

When do they do these interviews that these guys speak like their hands are clean?

[LGGirl]

Remy said he had a wife, a girlfriend, a perfect life and his wife goes missing ruins his life. Wow. Just wow.

[Intocats]

Remy certainly had a double standard. He felt justified having a physical affair with his wife's best friend because Jennifer was no longer Suzy Homemaker, but it was wrong for her to have an emotional attachment to a guy in another country she met while playing a game. Hmmm....

 

I couldn't for the life of me understand Remy's appeal to either Jennifer or Eileen. He's such a smarmy little character. At least Eileen says she now sees the error of her ways.

[daughtersofanarchy]

When Jennifer was changing her look, wearing makeup and cutting her hair, didn't that selfie she took make her look like Eileen?  The game avatar she used looked like Eileen, and it seemed like Jenn was going for that same look.  It was a bit weird.  I wonder if she knew, or suspected, that her husband and Eileen were having an affair.

[Intocats]

When Jennifer was changing her look, wearing makeup and cutting her hair, didn't that selfie she took make her look like Eileen?  The game avatar she used looked like Eileen, and it seemed like Jenn was going for that same look.  It was a bit weird.  I wonder if she knew, or suspected, that her husband and Eileen were having an affair.

That's a good observation. I hadn't noticed that the avatar resembled Eileen, but now that you mention it...

 

I thought I picked up a comment by Eileen that Jennifer did know about the affair. I DVRed it and should watch it again to see, but having to look at Remy for another hour...I don't know.

[zxy556575]

I just could not figure out why the best friend had an affair with him.

 

Andrea mentioned to Eileen in their interview that she was clearly out of Remy's league, and ... yeah.

 

He couldn't stop making it about himself, from "finding" the phone to befriending the media and communing with the world via Facebook. His exuberant laugh when he talked about his affair was super creepy. Not surprised he took the stand; the guy couldn't stop talking.

[Morbs]

Remy looked like a pug.

[mamey2422]

@lordonia

His exuberant laugh when he talked about his affair was super creepy.

This was seriously super creepy and the moment I knew he was guilty.

[JudyObscure]

We're always hearing that psychopaths have no conscience, but I don't think I've ever seen it made so obvious as in Remy. His, I'm just a naughty little boy, giggle over having an affair and the insane cluelessness of saying, "I had the perfect life, a wife, a girlfriend, children -- why would I want my wife to go missing?" Then to go online after she was found dead and complain about her bad housekeeping? I kept saying, "Remy, can you hear yourself?"

I can only guess it was propinquity in Eileen's case. Her marriage was unhappy and Remy was with her every day during their hours of training. Still the only think I can think of less attractive than Remy, with his girly laugh, pugly face and shrill anger, would be Remy sweaty. Shudder.

[druzy]

As soon as Dateline episodes start, I Google the subjects to see what the outcome was.  So it was a little shocking to see that the husband has been accused of murdering his wife.  This is the second Dateline that faked me by interviewing a husband of a murdered woman and never implying that he had anything to do with it.  There was one a few weeks ago with the same setup;  I get fooled cause the husband isn't in a prison setting, in regular clothing.  

 

When do they do these interviews that these guys speak like their hands are clean?

According to this article it looks like he wasn't in prison while awaiting his trial. He was released on bail.  

 

I too sometimes google the subjects when the episode is dragging on too long.

Edited November 1, 2014 by druzy

[callmebetty]

Couldn't agree more about the obnoxious hearty laugh Remy gave when talking about the affair.  Holy Moly, what a jerk.  

I also laughed though when the interviewer said Eileen was out of his league.  That's the understatement of the episode.

 

I've seen Datelines where they are interviewing people in street clothes and when they pan out at the end of the episode (once you find out the person is guilty) you see that the whole interview has been taking place in some part of the jail. A fake out to keep you watching the episode.

Though I love the one hour format, just quick and right to the point.

[zxy556575]

Remy looked like a pug.

 

Yes! And for a dedicated marathon runner, he's kind of pudgy.

 

I did enjoy the scene in the police interrogation room where Remy angrily stood up to leave and was told, "Nuh, uh. Let's try jail instead."

 

The episode title should have been Perfect Life. He admitted that he and Jennifer hadn't been getting along and that his marriage was all but over, yet still classifies that as perfect? Repeating it doesn't make it so, dude.

 

I didn't hear them mention who has custody of the kids, but I hope it's not his parents.That may be unfair to them because they didn't do anything wrong, but I always think in these cases the murderer's family will poison/skew/indoctrinate the minds of the children.

Edited November 1, 2014 by lordonia

[JudyObscure]

It being Halloween, I kept thinking that horrible house was haunted by the Ghost of Marital Discord. I thought that was the ugliest thing I'd ever seen. I wouldn't have cleaned it either, it didn't deserve to be cleaned.

[applecrisp]

Remy said he had a wife, a girlfriend, a perfect life and his wife goes missing ruins his life. Wow. Just wow.

I sooo much agree.  Very weird thing to say.

[Intocats]

Here is another article:

 

http://www.coopercrier.com/news/love-triangle-at-center-of-ramsaran-trial/article_330dea43-86ed-5c6a-a271-647b92184c94.html

 

It's obvious that Remy is a deplorable human being. But after reading this, I have no sympathy for Eileen, either. She told Andrea Canning that she was doing laundry and caring for the Ramsaran children because Jennifer didn't do it, but said very different things on the witness stand.

 

Liars, both of them.

[canaanite2]

 

I didn't hear them mention who has custody of the kids, but I hope it's not his parents.That may be unfair to them because they didn't do anything wrong, but I always think in these cases the murderer's family will poison/skew/indoctrinate the minds of the children.

 

In this case, it's not unfair to think this. Remy may or may not have been born a psychopath, but somebody taught and/or allowed him to be a sexist selfish asshole. He sees women as property.  

[tobeannounced]

I wish we could hear Jennifer's side of the story.  I'm thinking she suspected an affair (not necessarily that it was with a good friend) and that she was very depressed and despondent and was just losing herself in the online game.

[callmebetty]

I wish we could hear Jennifer's side of the story. I'm thinking she suspected an affair (not necessarily that it was with a good friend) and that she was very depressed and despondent and was just losing herself in the online game.

And who knows what crap Remy was telling her too. I'm sure since he was having an affair with the good looking best friend he was giving Jennifer put downs and probably making her feel like a POS for her looks. Doesn't surprise me her avatars and new looks resembled Eileen she probably heard from Remy why couldn't she look like her.

I feel for Jennifer and the kids.

[ari333]

Wow. That Remy gave me the chilly creeps from the get-go. I don't even know why exactly. Omg.... chilling.

And how convenient that Remy "found" Jen's phone in a creek in perfect condition.

[applecrisp]

Here is another article:

 

http://www.coopercrier.com/news/love-triangle-at-center-of-ramsaran-trial/article_330dea43-86ed-5c6a-a271-647b92184c94.html

 

It's obvious that Remy is a deplorable human being. But after reading this, I have no sympathy for Eileen, either. She told Andrea Canning that she was doing laundry and caring for the Ramsaran children because Jennifer didn't do it, but said very different things on the witness stand.

 

Liars, both of them.

I did wonder why no one seemed mad at the friend?  With friends like her.....

[Fable]

Remy is probably the most skeevy person I have yet to see on this show or any other crime journalism TV show.  The whole thing was a big joke to him... what a disgusting piece of work! 

 

I didn't like Eileen either.  Even though they tried to spin her plight as somewhat sympathetic, to me, there was just something disingenuous about her.  I'm not quite buying what she is selling! 

[druzy]

I didn't like Eileen either.  Even though they tried to spin her plight as somewhat sympathetic, to me, there was just something disingenuous about her.  I'm not quite buying what she is selling! 

I don't buy what she's selling either. I think she was being so manipulative in her interview.  She acted like the concerned friend while revealing things Jennifer told her in confidence. IMO her goal was to somehow justify her acts.

[ElleBee]

Some of the Remy guy's questionable behavior reminded me of the oldest daughter in the Carrollton episode and her inappropriate laughter. I wonder if these people think that if they just laugh and make it all sound breezy and light-hearted then somehow everyone will become magically convinced that hilarious infractions like affairs and murder really aren't such a big deal. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by ElleBee

[jenkait]

I hate to admit it, but at first Remy and Eileen seemed really normal to me!  I knew there was trouble though, when it started talking about them running together.  They turned out to be such jerks!  Also, 26 marathons in a year?!  That seems pretty extreme for a guy with three kids (thinking of the travel he'd have to do, etc.)

 

I have seen it so many times where a guy goes ballistic at the idea their gf/wife might be cheating...when they are cheating themselves!  "How could she do that to me?" etc.  Well...you thought it was okay...  It's so misogynistic and gross.

[druzy]

“A real man treats his lady the same way he wants another man to treat his daughter” Remy posted this quote on his Facebook Page.

Really Remy? Good thing you are locked up.

[ChristmasJones]

Remy's demeanor, on some level, reminds me of Drew Peterson.

 

When I was watching Eileen's interview segments, I was feeling the strongest urge to reach through my TV and brush her hair! OMG. It just looked so ratty- but the type of ratty that a simple brushing would fix. I found myself wondering what she thought of her hair when she watched the episode.

 

As to Dateline's approach to these shows in which they interview people in street clothes and don't immediately reveal the role of the various characters in the crime. I have to say that for me, I much prefer this approach. If you watch any of the various true crime shows, often on ID, they are quite boring because they start with something like "Remi was having an affair with his best friend and killed his wife" and then tell the story from there. To me that is boring and unless its a particularly interesting case, I just won't bother watching due to the format alone.

 

The format that Dateline uses engages me and makes the story somewhat of a mystery and that is what I enjoy about it. Even if in the back of my mind I know that the husband/boyfriend usually does it, I like that Dateline doesn't just tell me that in the first two minutes (I also fast-forward through all the clips they show at the very beginning because I don't want the story spoiled). I wish more true crime shows would follow the lead of Dateline and 48 Hours in terms of how they tell the story of the crime

[imjagain]

Ugh! Remy and Eileen, what a couple of disgusting people. Remy is murdering pig. Eileen just a pig. The fact that she was sleeping with her friend's husband and still continued to hang out/go shopping with Jennifer, is crazy. You have to be a very special asshole to do that to your friend.

I hate that those two pretty much got the whole show to talk about themselves. We heard very little about Jennifer, and who she really was.

We did get to hear about Eileen and Remy's first kiss, and that they had sex in Jennifer's home and that Jennifer let the house go to hell and spent 8 hours playing an online game. Eileen got to tell us she helped by doing laundry(a lie).

This episode pissed me off.

I guess that her family didn't want to participate. I still wish we had heard more about her. Was Eileen her only friend in the area?

Poor Jennifer killed and dumped naked like a piece of garbage.

Shallow note- I really wanted to see what Eileen's husband looked like and the English guy that Jennifer was talking to. It's not important but I was just curious:)

Edited November 2, 2014 by imjagain

[druzy]

Ugh! Remy and Eileen, what a couple of disgusting people. Remy is murdering pig. Eileen just a pig. The fact that she was sleeping with her friend's husband and still continued to hang out/go shopping with Jennifer, is crazy. You have to be a very special asshole to do that to your friend.

I hate that those two pretty much got the whole show to talk about themselves. We heard very little about Jennifer, and who she really was.

We did get to hear about Eileen and Remy's first kiss, and that they had sex in Jennifer's home and that Jennifer let the house go to hell and spent 8 hours playing an online game. Eileen got to tell us she helped by doing laundry(a lie).

This episode pissed me off.

I guess that her family didn't want to participate. I still wish we had heard more about her. Was Eileen her only friend in the area?

Poor Jennifer killed and dumped naked like a piece of garbage.

Shallow note- I really wanted to see what Eileen's husband looked like and the English guy that Jennifer was talking to. It's not important but I was just curious:)

IMJAGAIN your post sums up how I feel.

They are both pigs and were given a platform to tell us that they are really good people and Jennifer started this by neglecting her husband and children. I think there is so much more to this story. Who knows if Remy abused her and threw things around the house like a maniac but when most people see that picture Jennifer bears the blame for that mess.

 

Thank you for "you have to be a very special asshole to..." I can't wait to use that line!

[psychoticstate]

Remy looked like a pug.

On behalf of pugs everywhere, I am offended. 

 

Remy is exactly where he needs to be.  Eileen deserves a throat punch.

[Sims Addict]

Wow. That Remy gave me the chilly creeps from the get-go. I don't even know why exactly. Omg.... chilling.

The way with which he gleefully recounted having an affair with his (dead!) wife's (married!) best friend was vile. I agree with a poster upthread who said he reminded them of the delusional older daughter whose father paid someone to murder his wife in Texas. In these cases I wonder to myself do they realize that to  average people like us, showing no remorse or empathy for another person's fate is reprehensible. It's like his legal team did nothing to prepare him for that interview. Eileen tried to put on like she was remorseful, but I could see through her like a cheap nightie on the clearance rack at Fredrick's of Hollywood. She clearly has no discernment when it comes to character, because she cheated on her own husband with her best friend's husband who was an asshole of the highest order. She was 0 for 3 out of the gate.

[applecrisp]

There was one friend who talked about Jennifer and how she was a great mother and friend.  I got the feeling that they were old friends.  Now I wonder how close Eileen was to Jennifer. 

[photo fox]

When two women from the same church are the victims of violent crimes one year apart, the authorities try to determine if there is a connection, and a photo surfaces that leads them to believe the similarities between the case are not coincidental.

[Morbs]

Who did it?  My DVR skipped out on me.

[druzy]

Who did it?  My DVR skipped out on me.

Lukah Chang

Chang arrived in Pendleton around Aug. 7, 2012, and stayed in a few hotels until he ran out of money. One of those was the Travelodge, 411 S.W. Dorion Ave., where Brandhagen was a new employee. Chang noticed her, Roberts said.

The city library, across Dorion from the hotel, became a routine place for Chang, the chief said. And upon leaving there Aug. 14,he saw Brandhagen. He saw she opened rooms she planned to clean and closed doors when she entered. He stalked toward the Pendleton River Walkway, circled behind the hotel, crept to an open room on the second floor and waited for her. Brandhagen's body was found by the hotel manager at 3:19 p.m.