All Episodes Discussion

[JudyObscure]

It may seem strange, but I got the distinct sense that the two kids still love each other, but as he sad, their situation was always in the back of their minds. I even felt sorry for the woman's ex-husband. He came across as a decent guy.

I really think the kids might reunite in hatred for the boy's father, at this stage. I think the "monster," was so rotten that I no longer blame his wife for leaving her nice husband and eloping two days before the young couple's wedding. I imagine it was all manipulations and seduction on the monster's part.

I've listened to Jehovah's Witnesses enough (most are very sweet) to know they think only an elite 144,000 will go to Heaven and the rest will enjoy a wonderful life here on Earth after Jesus's second coming. First there will be a big war between Satan and his side and Jesus with his followers. What I don't get is why this guy doesn't realize that, as an unrepentant serial murderer, he will be on Satan's losing team.

[patty1h]

There are so many unanswered questions about the Pam and Ralph hookup.  It was a quick fact dropped into the episode but so much back story was not provided; like why the rush to get married right before their kids.  That's a head scratcher.  I gotta watch this one again - I was distracted and think I have to pay attention. I forgot that Pam's daughter and Ralph's son didn't actually get married.  I also wish there'd been a jailhouse interview with Ralph, to get his side of the story.  I'd have loved to hear his rambling web of lies from his lips.  Guess he learned to zip his lips after spilling his guts to the newspaper.

 

The investigator said one theory for Pam's murder is that Ralph wanted to get married again but knew that his religion frowns on divorce.  So, he thought it better to murder his wife and move on to the next woman, all to keep his standing in the church.  So hypocritical - doesn't his religion frown on infidelity and murder?  He's perfectly OK with taking that step.

[ari333]

Was Ralph a JW too? What would be the monster's plan in marrying his future daughter -in-law's mother?  Did she have money?

 

Also, that mistress should feel lucky that she isn't toast.

That open letter was off the charts

Why did the son not mention  to LE that he found his mom's belongings?

[Ohmo]

I forgot that Pam's daughter and Ralph's son didn't actually get married. 

 

Yes, the kids did marry.  Their parents were told not to attend the wedding.  Dateline said that Shannon and Adam (I think that was his name) divorced after 18 months because Pam and Ralph's marriage was always in the back of their minds.

 

Was Ralph a JW too? What would be the monster's plan in marrying his future daughter -in-law's mother?  Did she have money?

 

Also, that mistress should feel lucky that she isn't toast.

That open letter was off the charts

Why did the son not mention  to LE that he found his mom's belongings?

 

I believe that Ralph was a JW, yes, which may have been attractive to Pam since her first husband was not.

[ButterQueen]

This was so sad, but kinda boring. I knew Ralph did it from go. Love Keith Morrison though.

So sad the woman left her husband for that monster. Life is crazy!

[glowlights]

This episode... WOW. Keith Morrison, Jehovah's Witnesses gone bad, weird parental hook-ups, a decades-old missing person's case, and a bashit crazy epistle in the local newspaper. I wanted to hug the producers for not correcting any of Ralph's typos. lol Btw if anyone wants to read the letter it's linked here:

http://www.westword.com/news/ralph-candelarios-bizarre-murder-of-his-wife-gets-the-dateline-treatment-7808940

 

The one thing I didn't get is... what was his motive for murdering her? Or his first wife, for that matter? And as other have wondered, why did they have to get married right before their kids and essentially steal their kids' day? Because they couldn't wait to have sex?

 

ari333, I think with homeschooling it depends on the parents' motive. Sometimes it's because the local public schools are truly awful and the family can't afford private, or the child has special needs the public system can't accomodate, etc. But sometimes it's to keep the kids away from "evil" society and raise them in a vacuum, with no real focus on academics (and parents who themselves are in no position to teach), and in those cases yes I do think it stunts the kids. Sadly, there is very little oversight for homeschooling. :(

[teebax]

Death before divorce for yet another "devout" spouse.

Yep. Completely typical, too. I don't trust anyone who claims to be religious. If you're secure in your beliefs, why do you need to convince me of it? Much like your political beliefs, views on abortion, and your salary, I don't care and don't want to hear it.

I once told a coworker I was gay (she asked if I was married and at the time marriage wasn't an option for us.) She then told me that she doesn't "believe in homosexuality." I told her she needed to start believing since we obviously exist. Freaking idiot.

I'm not surprised this monster blamed his wife's murder and his assault on brown-skinned gays. For someone like him, there's nothing worse.

[patty1h]

This guy... there are no words.  I had to come back and comment after reading his letter to the newspaper.  Why did he feel compelled to tell the world that he'd shit and pissed himself while the (non-existent) murder dudes were in his house?  That is definitely too much information.

[ari333]

A realtor goes missing.

[ari333]

The husband, carl, struck me as not involved. But Im usually wrong.

[Major Bigtime]

Either this was a rerun labelled as new or I've seen it somewhere else. I vividly remember seeing that woman's face.

[glowlights]

The investigator said one theory for Pam's murder is that Ralph wanted to get married again but knew that his religion frowns on divorce. 

 

But this is what i don't understand - wasn't she already divorced from her first husband and therefore apostate in the eyes of JW? So if he was a devout JW how could he have married her in the first place? Wouldn't that make them both a pair of adulterous hell-bound whores?

 

I think he just liked killing women he was married to.

[walnutqueen]

But this is what i don't understand - wasn't she already divorced from her first husband and therefore apostate in the eyes of JW? So if he was a devout JW how could he have married her in the first place? Wouldn't that make them both a pair of adulterous hell-bound whores?

 

I think he just liked killing women he was married to.

 

True, but probably in his warped mind, he wasn't the one divorcing anyone, and his god forgives murder but not divorce.

[glowlights]

Well...  this was just sad. And senseless. Even though they weren't able to rescue Beverly in time, it was refreshing to see the police get right on the case and not stonewall the family because she hadn't been missing for 24 hours, or say "she'll turn up".

[ari333]

I thought she asked the first husband to be the one who filed for divorce so that it'd be.... appear to be....  out of her hands.  I may have missed something.

[ari333]

Either this was a rerun labelled as new or I've seen it somewhere else. I vividly remember seeing that woman's face.

 

Me too

That guy's flippant response to the reporter was chilling.

[glowlights]

I thought she asked the first husband to be the one who filed for divorce so that it'd be.... appear to be....  out of her hands.  I may have missed something.

 

Oh! That could make sense. Maybe the JWs have loopholes.

[tobeannounced]

I thought she asked the first husband to be the one who filed for divorce so that it'd be.... appear to be....  out of her hands.  I may have missed something.

Yeah, that was what the ex said.  "Accommodating to the end," was Keith's comment about that.

[Mama No Life]

I want to know when she got the horrible nose job.  She was attractive in some of the earlier pics, but she clearly had botched cosmetic surgery on the nose. It was horrible.  And again, lots of money being thrown around for those two with no real source of legit income.  I have to say I believed her until the press conference, with the whole "hug your loved ones, kiss your children" hysteria...clearly fake.

 

The scarf threw me too....tricky tricky Dateline.

[teebax]

I'm surprised we don't see more of these kinds of murders. I think about people who have jobs that put them alone with the public, and it seems scary to me.

A relative of mine recently had her children temoorarily removed by CPS. They sent the CPS lady to the home all by herself to take the kids. I was there because I was volunteering to take one of them. Anyway, we are reasonable people who wouldn't harm anyone, but I couldn't help but think that her job is really dangerous. She's removing kids from their parents and she's doing it by herself? Crazy.

[ari333]

I'm surprised we don't see more of these kinds of murders. I think about people who have jobs that put them alone with the public, and it seems scary to me.

A relative of mine recently had her children temoorarily removed by CPS. They sent the CPS lady to the home all by herself to take the kids. I was there because I was volunteering to take one of them. Anyway, we are reasonable people who wouldn't harm anyone, but I couldn't help but think that her job is really dangerous. She's removing kids from their parents and she's doing it by herself? Crazy.

 

I agree. My elderly parents. some yrs ago,  wanted to put an ad in the paper (when people still read papers)  for strangers to come into their home and look at the furniture they wanted to sell. I said NO way. I said I'd buy all of it  - even if I didn't want or need it - before I'd let some stranger form "the  paper" come and case their home  and see them... old... and check out the alarm system, entrances, etc and IDK what. NO! WAY!

 

I have a cousin who used to sell real estate and I asked her how she felt about that... meeting a strange male alone in a vacant home. She was ok with it. I wasn't ok with it.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ari333

[ari333]

Did you guys see this one? Im usually in the "husband did it" camp bc that's how it is so many times. This one kind of gave me a little pause for a second. Maybe Im a sucker. I did wonder about the four head bruises and the neck marks.

I also wonder if he was shocked that there were no substances inher system.

Edited April 30, 2016 by ari333

[nora1992]

I saw it, and I don't think he did it.  The sister-in-law's claim of a mafia connection - really?  If you really thought he was connected to the mafia, why invite that family into your family business?  I think the four head bruises and the neck marks probably happened during the attempts at CPR.  It was never mentioned, but did the husband have any scratch marks on him - was any skin found under her fingernails?  Were there any bruises on her legs, if she attempted to kick him or even hit them against the faucet in a struggle for life? It seems easier to believe the bruises were made at the last minute, by accident, than it is to believe that a person dependent on prescription drugs for months could ween herself off them in a few days.  The situation is tragic, but it seems like the powers-that-be went shopping around for pathologists/medical examiners until one was found that agreed with the wife's family.

That Facetime phone call was scary.

[teebax]

18 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

I saw it, and I don't think he did it.  The sister-in-law's claim of a mafia connection - really?  If you really thought he was connected to the mafia, why invite that family into your family business?  I think the four head bruises and the neck marks probably happened during the attempts at CPR.  It was never mentioned, but did the husband have any scratch marks on him - was any skin found under her fingernails?  Were there any bruises on her legs, if she attempted to kick him or even hit them against the faucet in a struggle for life? It seems easier to believe the bruises were made at the last minute, by accident, than it is to believe that a person dependent on prescription drugs for months could ween herself off them in a few days.  The situation is tragic, but it seems like the powers-that-be went shopping around for pathologists/medical examiners until one was found that agreed with the wife's family.

That Facetime phone call was scary.

I agree. I don't know if the family specifically wielded their wealth and power to influence the investigation, but that other pathologist wouldn't have even been involved if the family weren't prominent. I hate that there are two different justice systems: one for the haves and one for the have-nots.

I don't know whether or not he killed her, I'm leaning toward not. But it doesn't matter. The doubt makes it a not guilty verdict. Also, I think the mother did the victim no favors with her in-home "rehab." She had an addiction that needed to be dealt with by professionals. Her mom deeming her clean is ridiculous. Yes, she had no drugs in her system, but that Facetime video shows she was still abusing something. I think she had more than three cocktails when that video was shot.

[ari333]

This will sound weird , but I'll say it anyway.

Some folks just give off a vibe of "I did it" - It can be their words or gestures or expressions or fake something or other..... IDK what. . This dude did not have that imo. I know that sounds stupid.

[Fable]

4 minutes ago, ari333 said:

This will sound weird , but I'll say it anyway.

Some folks just give off a vibe of "I did it" - It can be their words or gestures or expressions or fake something or other..... IDK what. . This dude did not have that imo. I know that sounds stupid.

It doesn't sound weird to me.  I felt the same way.  His demeanor didn't seem like he was trying to hide anything, and he was not really celebratory when the verdict came back in his favor, acknowledging that his wife was still gone.  He also seemed genuinely distressed that some people would always see him a murderer and said that he wasn't really okay with it, but he still had to move on.  

[Albino]

3 hours ago, ari333 said:

This will sound weird , but I'll say it anyway.

Some folks just give off a vibe of "I did it" - It can be their words or gestures or expressions or fake something or other..... IDK what. . This dude did not have that imo. I know that sounds stupid.

ITA.  I felt he was innocent the moment I heard his 911 call.  "Help help help help help help..." was pretty much all he could get out.  Usually the guilty party tries to over explain and alibi themselves in the first few seconds of the call.  "Help...I just got home from work and my wife is dead in the tub and I think she may have hit her head...there's blood everywhere...". 

I really wish we'd have some episodes where the spouse is not the guilty party.  We need better murders, people!

[Mama No Life]

I agree that, if he didn't do it, there was at least reasonable doubt.  I wonder if she hit her head seizing in the tub?  Anyway, it wasn't clear he did it, and I admired the fact that her dad was letting go and moving on. 

That said, there was something about the mom that bugged the hell out of me.  Part of it was the glasses....she looked like a cartoon character.  But she was just sooo freaking dramatic.  Ugh.

[LakeGal]

I found it odd early in the episode when her friend said she never felt like she was not important when she was in the presence of this woman.  This struck me strange.  Who talks that way about a girlfriend?  I never thought about being "in the presence of" a friend. That sounds like being with royalty.  Her family obviously had alot of power around that area.

I could see why the husband could not divorce his wife.  Her family gave them their house.  They gave him his job.  He really was under the thumb of his father-in-law,  I wanted to hear from a couple of the jurors.  What made them decide "not guilty"?  

The 4 bruises on her head and the marks on her throat bothered me.  I am suspicious of the husband.  

[Lizzing]

One thing the husband said bugged me: he claimed that he saw his doctor, and the doctor asked how his shoulder was doing.  Hubby was perplexed about the question and found out the doctor previously wrote the hubby a prescription for pain killers on the wife's claim hubby had injured himself, and the wife filled the script and kept the drugs for herself.  What kind of doctor would prescribe pain killers for a patient on the word of his wife?!?!  First, how would the doc know what kind of injury it was for sure, the actual degree of pain he was in, and what level of pain killers were protocol?  Second, since when do MDs write controlled substance scripts for unseen patients?  Given the opiod addiction problem in this country, the doc should have been investigated.

The wife's family bugged me.  The mother was delusional if she thought a long weekend of going cold turkey would clean up her daughter's addiction.  And when the mother first described the husband as "EYEtalian" my radar went off, so I wasn't shocked the sister brought up the crazy mafia theory.  I've met people (and sadly am related to some of them) who pronounce Italian that way, and they have been, to a person, extremely prejudicial on race and national origin. YMMV.

When I first heard the injuries, it sounded plausible that she had a seizure or passed out from dextoxing & the temperature differential getting into a hot bath.  The ones around the neck did give me pause, but lack of other evidence and expert shopping by the prosecution left me feeling the jury did the right thing.

[Rustybones]

I don't know how y'all can remember the names of the episode and people involved.  I've probably seem them all though.  There is one involving Hemi Newman and Andrea somebody?  She was the most arrogant person I've ever seen on the witness stand.  She got away with having an affair with Hemi and probably persuading him to kill her husband Rusty.  They tried to convict her of planning Rusty's murder, that didn't work.  She ended up being convicted of lying under oath.  Poor Hemi was so in love with her he never involved her in the murder, he was found mentally ill.

I have a question.  If someone is convicted and found mentally ill, do they get treated while in prison?

[LGGirl]

If the wife was really able to obtain pain killers for her husband without an appointment then that goes to show how much influence this family had in the community. It's funny that they thought that the husband had mafia connections because the wife's family are the ones that acted like they belonged to the mob.  

[ari333]

I thought the dr prescribing drugs to a patient with no appointment or assessment was WEIRD too

[UsernameFatigue]

I actually shouted out "Yes!" when the not guilty verdict was announced. As others haver said, I never once thought the hubby was guilty. From not giving off the guilty vibe, to his 911 call, to his interview with the police, he never once sounded like he was trying to cover his tracks. And I also agree that her family was odd and had way too much influence in that town. How the husband was ever brought to trial in the first place is beyond me. Thank goodness there was a change of venue for the trial and an intelligent jury that were not influenced by her family.

[biakbiak]

I admired the fact that her dad was letting go and moving on.

I imagine that has everything to do with wanting to be a part of their grandchildrens lives.

[ChristmasJones]

Count me with those who felt he was not guilty.   If he was, then he has done a damn good job of acting like he didn't. Agree about the 911 call.   Did anyone notice that when they showed the close-up of the tox screen, it showed positive for amphetamines? It was at the very top of the page.

I wondered why there was no discussion of water in her lungs. I don't know how that would work if he held her under, but it seems they usually discuss that when someone dies in water (murder or for other reasons).

I feel most sad for those three kids. Their family is now split in half. What will that be like to live for decades knowing your aunt/uncles/grandparents all think your dad killed your mom???  That is going to be so stressful for everyone involved.

[UsernameFatigue]

I thought that was odd about the tox screen as well. Why did they keep implying that she was drug free when she obviously was not? And an overdose of amphetamines can cause heart, circulatory and breathing problems and could be fatal. She may not have had whatever it was she was addicted to previously in her system but she did have drugs in her system according to the report. I wonder why that was never pointed out?

[Lizzing]

I missed that she was positive for amphetamines.  Hell, people who take too much sudafed accidentally can have seizures.  I knew a girl in college who took too much sudafed (back in the olden days when you didn't have to show ID to buy it...'cause I'm old like that) and passed out in the shower.  She lived to tell about it, but that lends more plausibility to the conclusion this was an accident.  And Dateline should have mentioned this part of the tox screen!

[Madding crowd]

i didn't see anything positive on the tox screen either so I missed that part. I am suspicious of the husband only because there is no cause of death, she had bruises on her neck and when women start talking about divorce is when the men kill them. Men don't want their wives to get either their money or their kids.

Some parts of this case annoyed me. I take pain meds for back pain. They are prescribed by the doctor and I neither hang out with addicts nor act unreasonable or out of it. I'm not sure I believe the story of her getting pills for her husband-did they have any proof besides what he said? I guess my point is, I don't know everything about this case; but I would hate to think if I died under mysterious circumstances it would be dragged out that I was an out of control addict.

As far as the comments that she could not kick the pills in one weekend. She obviously did not have those pills in her system. i have gone periods of time without my pain meds and have been OK except for being in terrible pain. It can be done. She could have had a seizure but they are really not that common and I tend to think they would have found a cause for the seizure if she did. There was not enough evidence to convict him, but I'm still not convinced he is innocent.

[ari333]

Some of these stories start to run together for me. I watch too many. [/get a life]

[ari333]

13 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

i didn't see anything positive on the tox screen either so I missed that part. I am suspicious of the husband only because there is no cause of death, she had bruises on her neck and when women start talking about divorce is when the men kill them. Men don't want their wives to get either their money or their kids.

Some parts of this case annoyed me. I take pain meds for back pain. They are prescribed by the doctor and I neither hang out with addicts nor act unreasonable or out of it. I'm not sure I believe the story of her getting pills for her husband-did they have any proof besides what he said? I guess my point is, I don't know everything about this case; but I would hate to think if I died under mysterious circumstances it would be dragged out that I was an out of control addict.

As far as the comments that she could not kick the pills in one weekend. She obviously did not have those pills in her system. i have gone periods of time without my pain meds and have been OK except for being in terrible pain. It can be done. She could have had a seizure but they are really not that common and I tend to think they would have found a cause for the seizure if she did. There was not enough evidence to convict him, but I'm still not convinced he is innocent.

 

 

I agree with all of this. However if I were on the jury, I think I'd have to be honest and say that I did feel some reasonable doubt. There were some hinky parts here for sure though. I"d have liked to hear more about the mystery prescription for HIS shoulder. And how does a seizure cause neck marks? I also agree that females turn up dead when they try to leave.

[editorgrrl]

Quote

Cornell student and star athlete Charlie Tan excels in everything. But when he gets caught in the middle of a murder investigation, the community is left in shock. Dennis Murphy reports.

 

The defense held its cards close to the chest, then claimed in closing remarks that Charlie's mom had shot his dad—too late for the prosecution to erase reasonable doubt.

[ari333]

I'm still watching, but wanted to open the thread to get things started. 

 

Interesting.

I don't know if it was her (the mom's) English, but that one 911 call did not sound panicky to me.

Did anyone else think that "close friend, Anna" had blindingly white teeth?  It reminded me of Ross on Friends

Edited May 2, 2016 by ari333

[editorgrrl]

All too often the two-hour episodes are bloated and boring, but this one-hourer left me with lots of questions. Who murders someone and successfully flees the country, but comes back to call 911 days later? 

And didn't they mention in passing that Charlie has a brother?

Edited to add that I wonder if Charlie's mother (or even the other son) killed the father, then called the Ivy League student for help?

Edited May 2, 2016 by editorgrrl
Conspiracy theory

[ari333]

There is a waiting period for a Canadian citizen to purchase firearms, so the frat brother bought the gun right before the murder. Wow. who does that?

 

"SHOWTIME" was chilling.

....and pretty stupid.

I agree that they bloat some eppys, then leave others with other questions unanswered.

[ari333]

I wish I could find the link or had it handy. I read some interesting things about statement analysis and 911 calls. I'll try to find it.

[glowlights]

Hemi Neuman and Andrea Sneiderman! She was back in court recently asking for a new trial, which was denied.

I do believe someone like Hemi receives treatment, but the quality of care may not be what he would get out here in the regular world.

Edited May 2, 2016 by glowlights
forgot to say new trial was denied

[backformore]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

I don't know if it was her (the mom's) English, but that one 911 call did not sound panicky to me.

Did anyone else think that "close friend, Anna" had blindingly white teeth?  It reminded me of Ross on Friends

Agree on both counts.   The mom sounded like she was reading from a script.  like reading the words "help help, he's beating me, help me please"  in a monotone.

And yeah, those were some TEETH!  Also, her lips rarely closed all the way, like her upper lip was stuck.  It was very distracting.

About the case, though -  I wanted more detail -  was the evidence clear that the guy had actually been killed 4 days ago?  And then the mom calls as though it was happening as she was speaking?   So many unanswered questions on this case, it wasn't a very satisfying episode. Big contrast to some of the two-hour episodes where they just take 60 minutes worth and keep repeating stuff before and after the commercial breaks.

Edited May 2, 2016 by backformore

[ari333]

BIG OLE MONOTONE by the mom on that 911 call..... sheesh. It was really dry and fake to me

Oh... oh.... I.. am .. being choked... no urgency no emotion

ANd YES! that woman's lips were always parted like when a photographer says, "part your lips to look all sexy."

[funky-rat]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:41 AM, Rustybones said:

I don't know how y'all can remember the names of the episode and people involved.  I've probably seem them all though.  There is one involving Hemi Newman and Andrea somebody?  She was the most arrogant person I've ever seen on the witness stand.  She got away with having an affair with Hemi and probably persuading him to kill her husband Rusty.  They tried to convict her of planning Rusty's murder, that didn't work.  She ended up being convicted of lying under oath.  Poor Hemi was so in love with her he never involved her in the murder, he was found mentally ill.

I have a question.  If someone is convicted and found mentally ill, do they get treated while in prison?

I don't remember most of them.  I can remember bits of the plots, but usually not the names.  Every now and again, one will hit me hard, and I'll go looking for further info, and that's how I remember.  The one with poor Amanda Cope that I mentioned above was one.  I can't remember if Dateline did an episode on the Rogers family from Ohio who were raped and dumped overboard into the Tampa Bay while alive - their mouths and noses covered with duct tape, their hands bound, and weighted down with cinder blocks.  I know Unsolved Mysteries did, and that one always haunted me because one of the daughters looked like a good friend of mine, and the mother looked like a friend of my family.  And I knew many people who would be naïve enough to trust a friendly stranger who offered them something cool - I live in a rural area, just like the Rogers family did.