All Episodes Discussion

[EtheltoTillie]

I saw last night’s episode a couple of years ago. Did they add anything?

[iMonrey]

20 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Question. If the college was libel for Edwin Lara and the $2 mill Max was paid to the Sawyer family, could the gentleman that was shot and Aundrea who was kidnapped sue the school for $2 mill each too and get a judgment?  Just curious.

 

Probably not since they were not affiliated with the school in any way. I think the issue was that Kaylee identified him as a security guard at the school by his uniform and company vehicle and trusted him on that basis. I don't think that was an issue with either Aundrea or the shooting victim.

I wonder if it ever occurs to the show that the reason Lara was obsessed with serial killers was because of shows like this. It wouldn't surprise me to learn there are people who commit crimes just hoping to be on Dateline. (Think of how bummed you would be expecting to be interviewed by Keith Morrison only to wind up with Andrea Canning though.)

I know I've seen this one before. I don't know why my DVR picked it up as "new." I'm glad they didn't spend an hour on red herrings like the boyfriend, but this could easily have been reduced to an hour.

[Ellee]

Thanks @iMonrey   Didn’t think that through regarding the lawsuit. 
 

Also didn’t think of the aspect that killers or potential killers ‘seeing’ themselves on Dateline or other shows.   Scary thought.   
 

It is also a scary thought that a person or persons with power would be hired without any kind of background check.   

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if it ever occurs to the show that the reason Lara was obsessed with serial killers was because of shows like this. It wouldn't surprise me to learn there are people who commit crimes just hoping to be on Dateline.

I thought about that a bit, too, yeah. I mean, there's plenty of us who watch shows like this and don't go out committing crimes, and people have credited shows like this for actually proving helpful to them in terms of trying to stop a criminal, and things of that sort. 

But yeah, it's also true that some criminals do get inspired by shows like this, and want the fame and notoriety involved. And indeed, in that regard, Edwin got what he wanted in the end. 

I clearly missed the first airing of this story, as it was all new to me. I do seem to remember a promo for the episode mentioning this would be an update to the story, though, so yeah, I'm curious what new elements were introduced. 

[TVbitch]

Psycopaths like Lara are gonna kill somebody whether they will make it on Dateline or not. ...but he sure blew his big moment with Keith! Personally, Dateline has not turned me into a murderer, but it has turned me into a spinster and a junior dectective who spies on everyone in my community. : D

Ugh, next week a "royal family" episode. : (

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, GussieK said:

I saw last night’s episode a couple of years ago. Did they add anything?

Me too.  I think the new information had to do with the $2M settlement between the community college and Kayleigh's family and the passage of Kayleigh's Law in Oregon.

[Annber03]

27 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

he sure blew his big moment with Keith!

I liked how he handled that call with Edwin, trying to figure out what he was even babbling on about with his finances and stuff. There was another episode I caught on some other channel recently where he interviewed a guy who'd been convicted of killing his ex-wife. During the episode there had been mention that the guy had also stolen money from some fund for his kids for his own personal use and other things of that sort (that was one of the things his ex-wife was taking him to court over, which the prosecutors argued provided a motive for him to murder her), and there was plenty of court documents and whatnot that backed that up.

During the interview, the guy was trying to claim that he used that money the way it was intended, to help his kids, and claiming that all these accusations had no merit and so on and so forth. Keith went through and mentioned all the things the guy had brought with the money he'd taken to prove that no, his kids did not benefit from any of it the way he claimed. It was pretty amusing :D. 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Ohmo said:

This, along with all of that stuff with the investigator.  You're awake, Jan's sitting up, your hand is underneath her, etc.  All of that stuff was important, and Chris couldn't keep any of it straight...which is a sign to me that it was all BS.  Plus, then he identifies the shooter as he, then is surprised that he did, but then doesn't identify the he as Jeremy?  That's because I don't think there was a "he" at all.

Saying the shooter was a "he" isn't an identifier, in my opinion.  "He" or "she" can be neutral pronouns based on stereotypes, especially when the thing we're talking about is more associated with a certain gender. 

It's why when people talk about nurses, the unconscious default is "she" even though there are men who are nurses.  Or when we talk about a sanitation worker, we might default to "he" even though women do it as well.

Statistically, violent murders, or at least those who have been caught, are disproportionately more likely to be men. Therefore, my bias when talking about shooters is to think of a guy.

I think his confusion is understandable for both a murderer AND someone who woke up suddenly, was likely groggy and then was hit with the trauma of his wife bleeding.  The prosecution made a lot of assertions about what was "certain" that the defense did a good job of showing "no it's not certain."  I probably would have voted as the jury did.

5 hours ago, Ellee said:

Question. If the college was libel for Edwin Lara and the $2 mill Max was paid to the Sawyer family, could the gentleman that was shot and Aundrea who was kidnapped sue the school for $2 mill each too and get a judgment?  Just curious.

I think it depends if any equipment they gave out was used in that crime.  I believe the hand gun was his, right?  Had it been given to him as part of his job, that guy might have had a case.

[UsernameFatigue]

5 hours ago, Ohmo said:

The fact that Jeremy and Bailey are still together came from the episode.  It was mentioned at the end. I also don't think them being together is a sign or their guilt. It also points to Chris's guilt. If you believe that your father killed your mother, you're not going to want to be around him and you're going to want to stay with someone with whom you feel safe.  That's Jeremy.

I also think the PD's statement is telling.  Jeremy was investigated, and I think if the cops suspected Bailey, they would have investigated her as well.  They even investigated the neighbor. For this police department, I don't think they would have had any issue charging Bailey or Jeremy, but the evidence did not lead them there.  It led them to Chris.

Thanks for the info regarding Bailey and Jeremy still being together. I agree that Chris is the likely murderer. 

 

[Ohmo]

46 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Saying the shooter was a "he" isn't an identifier, in my opinion.  "He" or "she" can be neutral pronouns based on stereotypes, especially when the thing we're talking about is more associated with a certain gender. 

I understand that, but I don't think that's why Chris said "he."  Right after that, the investigator pointed out that he had said "he", and Chris said something to the effect of, "Oh, did I?"  I took notice of that.  It stood out to me because I thought Chris was fumbling all over the place...because there was no "he" or "she" that wasn't him.  He couldn't keep his story straight, and I think that one investigator saw right through him.  Too bad the jury did not.

[RebeccatheWriter]

I remember the one about Kayleigh but watched it again last night. Her mother's voice still grates with the breathy whisper. Still a tragic story.

[Ellee]

Thanks @Irlandesa   Another thing that I didn’t think of. 
 

I enjoy reading the forums. You can learn a lot. 
 

[Jeanne222]

14 hours ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

I remember the one about Kayleigh but watched it again last night. Her mother's voice still grates with the breathy whisper. Still a tragic story.

As soon as the mother spoke I knew I had watched it before!  Looked it up and yes it was for the lawsuit way at the tail end.

It seems her grandparents must have raised Kaylee.  I bet the mom was really young when she had her!

[Fable]

Oh boy, if being hooked on true crime and serial killers was an indicator of criminal behavior, I'd be in a lot of trouble, wouldn't I? 😉

[Ellee]

Have to say Kylee’s and JJ’s murders have made me somewhat obsessive. I can’t wait for those two to get what they have coming to them. The fact that two of Vallow’s husbands were also murdered and most likely her brother too ... just shouldn’t happen.   Crimes against babies  ... never.   Now one reads about them every day.   Guess I’ve made Vallow/Daybell the ‘poster child’s’ of senseless murder in a way. That should make Vallow happy as she does want to be the center of attention. 

Wish there was a way that we could protect the victims.  All of them. 

Oh, boy ... that reminds me of POI.  I miss that show. 

[hookedontv]

On 12/12/2020 at 2:41 PM, Ellee said:

It is also a scary thought that a person or persons with power would be hired without any kind of background check.  

I thought that was scary as well. I had to have a background check for my corporate job. You would think security jobs (and similar positions) would always require background checks and drug checks. 

[Jeanne222]

I just finished watching the 20/20 show about the trial of Rodney Reed for the murder of Stacey Stites.

I've watched a few minutes on the news about The Innocence Project and Kim Kardashian speaking out for him.

It is a real cliff hanger.  Guilty of innocent?

[MsJamieDornan]

Very interesting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/seven-years-dateline-s-missing-america-156-still-missing-n1250083

[Ellee]

@MsJamieDornan  Thank you for that article.   I didn’t read it all but saw a few that I remembered somewhat. 
 

Crystal Rogers — wasn’t a multiple episode show done on her?

Another that caught my eye was two older gentlemen that disappeared a year apart. They worked at the same ranch and one of the gentlemen that went missing first was related to the ranch owner. 
 

 

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, Ellee said:

@MsJamieDornan  Thank you for that article.   I didn’t read it all but saw a few that I remembered somewhat. 
 

Crystal Rogers — wasn’t a multiple episode show done on her?

Another that caught my eye was two older gentlemen that disappeared a year apart. They worked at the same ranch and one of the gentlemen that went missing first was related to the ranch owner. 
 

 

Crystal Rodgers was a missing case I followed!  Her family continues to try and get justice.

Her father was shot and killed by a sniper .  

They did a good job presenting the case on tv!

 

[Ellee]

26 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Crystal Rodgers was a missing case I followed!  Her family continues to try and get justice.

Her father was shot and killed by a sniper .  

They did a good job presenting the case on tv!

 

I had forgotten about her father. Yes a sniper did kill him.  
 

I’d watch this all again.  Wish my memory was better. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I thought that was scary as well. I had to have a background check for my corporate job. You would think security jobs (and similar positions) would always require background checks and drug checks. 

Eh. It was a community college and the expectation for a security guard probably didn't exceed monitoring the parking lot for violations. I mean, yeah, it would behoove them to do a cursory background check (especially now!) but I can see why it was overlooked. It's not like they armed him. That was his own gun.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Eh. It was a community college and the expectation for a security guard probably didn't exceed monitoring the parking lot for violations. I mean, yeah, it would behoove them to do a cursory background check (especially now!) but I can see why it was overlooked. It's not like they armed him. That was his own gun.

Except they had a car with a few more security protections and they gave them handcuffs. 

[Ellee]

18 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Crystal Rodgers was a missing case I followed!  Her family continues to try and get justice.

Her father was shot and killed by a sniper .  

They did a good job presenting the case on tv!

 

https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/crime/unsolved/bardstown-officer-jason-ellis-killed/417-947472eb-0d63-47fb-a8b0-2ab2d4d20205

I had forgotten this too. 
 

Interesting that within the article one of the officers said ‘They’ve killed him.’  May be too literal here but it sounds like ‘people’ know something ....

Edited December 17, 2020 by Ellee

[Ellee]

Oh dear Lord ....

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/12/16/dcs-caseworker-wife-force-4-adopted-children-to-perform-sex-acts-on-each-other-report/

ETA  The wife was county police.  She quit before charges were filed. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Ellee

[Jeanne222]

6 hours ago, Ellee said:

https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/crime/unsolved/bardstown-officer-jason-ellis-killed/417-947472eb-0d63-47fb-a8b0-2ab2d4d20205

I had forgotten this too. 
 

Interesting that within the article one of the officers said ‘They’ve killed him.’  May be too literal here but it sounds like ‘people’ know something ....

Yes he too was shot by a sniper like attack.   Along a highway.

The boyfriend she was living with and the father of her youngest child was a local police officer.  I'm trying to remember but I think his brother or father were in local politics.  Family had a town business.

Crystal had five children that were left motherless.

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Ellee said:

Oh dear Lord ....

https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/12/16/dcs-caseworker-wife-force-4-adopted-children-to-perform-sex-acts-on-each-other-report/

ETA  The wife was county police.  She quit before charges were filed. 

Jesus, what the hell is wrong with some people? 

[Ellee]

44 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Jesus, what the hell is wrong with some people? 

I know!  I KNOW!!!!

He worked for Dept of Child Services and she’s police.   I’d be opening an investigation of their coworkers.   People that are that off can’t hide it especially from other professionals, can they?

[CrazyInAlabama]

So in the abused adopted children case, the husband was a county social worker, the wife worked for the Sheriff's office as a dispatcher, and there were at least a dozen interactions with the Cochise County police before anyone rescued these children from these monsters?    

I'm betting no Dateline or 20/20 episode will cover this, because the police probably wouldn't talk about their cases to the show producers, or interviewers ever again.      The fact that the sheriff's department in Cochise County went to this home repeatedly, and did nothing is despicable.    Why am I guessing that whoever finally busted these people, and rescued these children isn't very popular, unless everyone turned on these people after the arrest.   I hope both of the abusers in this case end up in general population, and everyone knows what they did to those children.  

Edited December 18, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Ellee]

The whole thing leaves me speechless. 

So nobody even thought to question them?  I just can’t believe it.  

[TVbitch]

Thursday's Eastlake Conspiracy... Not much to say, except boy was that guy ready for his 15 minutes of fame. 

And, Andrea Canning's upspeak at the end of almost every question was unrelenting!!

[iMonrey]

Quote

Thursday's Eastlake Conspiracy... Not much to say, except boy was that guy ready for his 15 minutes of fame. 

They could not have picked a crazier looking picture of the father who solicited the hitman if they tried. 

It's fruitless at this point to wonder why so many people see murder as a viable alternative to divorce or a viable solution to custody issues. These narcissists simply think they are smarter than everyone else. It's been my experience the more people think they know the less they actually do. The smarter you are, the more you realize you don't know.

[Madding crowd]

The Eastlake one was kind of boring compared to the usual stories and I couldn’t stop looking at Andrea’s eyebrows they were so thick and uneven.

[Melina22]

Maybe it's because I just finished The Crown, but I quite enjoyed tonight's show about Princess Diana. I can't say I learned too many new things, but Andrea did interview some people I was interested to hear from. 

I had two takeaways. First, I was very relieved to hear she was unconscious when they found her, and thus not in pain or afraid. Second, I'm convinced now that it was an ordinary accident, not a conspiracy. 

I truly thought I'd never say this, but the show made me a little more sympathetic to Charles. I'm sure Diana had many great talents and qualities, but she also sounded so exhausting, what with the constant mood swings and rages. And they had zero in common.

Obviously they should never have gone through with the marriage, but it sounds like he went into it thinking maybe they could be happy, but found himself completely unequipped to be the husband she seemed to need. This probably would have been true even if Camilla never existed. They were so unsuited to each other. 

Finally, I enjoyed not having to hear another story about a wife disappearing because her husband secretly murdered her for the money and/or another woman. That was nice. 

 

 

[Ellee]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lori-vallows-former-in-laws-wish-shed-be-half-honest-about-their-grandsons-suspicious-death/ar-BB1c3ibQ

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/doomsday-mom-lori-vallow-true-crime-documentary.amp

Edited December 19, 2020 by Ellee

[Melina22]

That show sounds interesting. 

The police aren't exactly moving quickly on this. If I understand correctly, neither one of them has been charged with murder. Baffling. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Andrea did interview some people I was interested to hear from.

Who on earth was she interviewing with the crazy eyebrows? Jiminy Christmas, he had one eyebrow hair protruding from his face about three inches long! Trim your damn eyebrows, man!

I just feel like the story of Diana has been told a thousand times from every conceivable angle. There is nothing new to be learned at this point. I get that The Crown has reignited interest, but this just felt lazy. I wish they'd do something on Sarah Ferguson, because she's just an ongoing train wreck to this day.

[Ellee]

52 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

That show sounds interesting. 

The police aren't exactly moving quickly on this. If I understand correctly, neither one of them has been charged with murder. Baffling. 

Just out of curiosity ... you all know I want them to fry for what they’ve done to those babies but in all reality does it matter who gets nailed first for which of the half dozen murders and which one they are charged with?  There must be something else that is holding them up.  
 

Yeah and I do realize the pandemic is benefiting them. Go figure.  

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I wish they'd do something on Sarah Ferguson, because she's just an ongoing train wreck to this day

Good point. I finally, after all these years, watched an old doc on Sarah, and was surprised by how much better and more talented she was than what we saw, and how terribly she was treated by the press. She's just never captured the public interest like Diana, presumably not beautiful enough for them, and that goes on to this day. I'd be very interested to learn more about her, and what's happened to her lately. 

28 minutes ago, Ellee said:

There must be something else that is holding them up.  

There has to be. But I guess as long as they're in prison in the meantime, as you said, what difference does it make? (I say this about them, since I'm 100% certain they're guilty, but imagine the horror when this happens to people who AREN'T guilty?) 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Melina22

[Lsk02]

Back to the Eastlake murder for hire episode, it was odd to me that the father was originally only awarded custody of one of the girls. Typically courts do not like to split up siblings. I wonder if she was old enough to have a say in where she went. And if so, that says a lot. 

I don’t blame the second wife for crying thinking about her getting out of jail. I cannot imagine having to live with knowing the person who tried to kill your husband, and now probably has a beef against you for adopting her kids, is walking free. 

[Fostersmom]

On 12/18/2020 at 8:02 PM, Madding crowd said:

The Eastlake one was kind of boring compared to the usual stories and I couldn’t stop looking at Andrea’s eyebrows they were so thick and uneven.

I  never watch this show, but watched the Eastlake one since I live like 5 minutes from Eastlake and have lived in in the same county my entire life.... and I have zero recollection of this happening and I'd have to assume it made local news at the time. Apparently it was just as boring in real life as the episode was! LOL! 

[Leilani]

I don't why DATELINE would think anyone is interested in the Royal Family..what a waste of an episode.

[chediavolo]

On 12/19/2020 at 12:20 AM, Melina22 said:

Maybe it's because I just finished The Crown, but I quite enjoyed tonight's show about Princess Diana. I can't say I learned too many new things, but Andrea did interview some people I was interested to hear from. 

I had two takeaways. First, I was very relieved to hear she was unconscious when they found her, and thus not in pain or afraid. Second, I'm convinced now that it was an ordinary accident, not a conspiracy. 

I truly thought I'd never say this, but the show made me a little more sympathetic to Charles. I'm sure Diana had many great talents and qualities, but she also sounded so exhausting, what with the constant mood swings and rages. And they had zero in common.

Obviously they should never have gone through with the marriage, but it sounds like he went into it thinking maybe they could be happy, but found himself completely unequipped to be the husband she seemed to need. This probably would have been true even if Camilla never existed. They were so unsuited to each other. 

Finally, I enjoyed not having to hear another story about a wife disappearing because her husband secretly murdered her for the money and/or another woman. That was nice. 

 

 

I agree, she must’ve been quite a chore to contend with. That’s one problem with marrying someone who’s practically a child and a spoiled one.I was still think Charles should have had  some balls and stood up to his mother and her antiquated obsession with having him marry a virginal woman from the right family as they say. 

[UsernameFatigue]

6 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I agree, she must’ve been quite a chore to contend with. That’s one problem with marrying someone who’s practically a child and a spoiled one.I was still think Charles should have had  some balls and stood up to his mother and her antiquated obsession with having him marry a virginal woman from the right family as they say. 

That Charles was expected to marry a virgin had nothing to do with the Queen, and everything to do with the expectation of anyone marrying a future king. That expectation goes back centuries.  Times have changed and William was able to live with Kate for several years before they married. But 40 years ago it was still an expectation. 

I don't know how much the problems with Diana stemmed from her age. I would think any woman marrying the man she loves would have a problem with her husband still being in love with and seeing his former girlfriend. Unfortunately for Diana it just played out in front of the entire world. The one good thing to come from their farce of a marriage is that William was allowed to marry the woman he loved. And the passage of a few decades where the world had changed, particularly for women, quite a bit. 

Edited to add - part of the reason for a woman marrying a future king having to be a virgin was to ensure that if she were to get pregnant right away, that the baby belonged to the future king. With DNA etc. now that is now longer an issue. Again this "rule" does go back centuries. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by UsernameFatigue

[UsernameFatigue]

On 12/19/2020 at 5:04 PM, Lsk02 said:

Back to the Eastlake murder for hire episode, it was odd to me that the father was originally only awarded custody of one of the girls. Typically courts do not like to split up siblings. I wonder if she was old enough to have a say in where she went. And if so, that says a lot. 

I don’t blame the second wife for crying thinking about her getting out of jail. I cannot imagine having to live with knowing the person who tried to kill your husband, and now probably has a beef against you for adopting her kids, is walking free. 

I assumed that the reason the oldest daughter lived with her father was that she was old enough to decide who she wanted to live with. I would imagine as well that she may have known that her mother was accusing her father of all kinds of things that were not true.

I feel sorry for her ex and his new(ish) wife, knowing that the first wife will be out of prison next year. I doubt very much that she has learned anything, and on top of that her ex's second wife adopted her kids and consider her their only mom. If she was mad enough before to kill, I doubt that hate has lessoned any. Possibly it has even increased. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by UsernameFatigue

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Leilani said:

I don't why DATELINE would think anyone is interested in the Royal Family..what a waste of an episode.

I didn't watch but clearly people are interested in them with The Crown...etc. 

[Lisa418722]

16 hours ago, Leilani said:

I don't why DATELINE would think anyone is interested in the Royal Family..what a waste of an episode.

I did watch and I have to admit it was nice to have something different than the usual murders.  Sometimes I like watching something more "brain candy" especially this time of year.  

[iMonrey]

There just isn't anything new to learn about Diana by now though. Unless you have missed the 9,000 other documentaries and TV mini series and movies about Diana this episode had nothing new to offer. 

I don't know what 19 year old girl wouldn't have been starstruck by the idea of marrying the Prince of Wales and one day becoming Queen of England. That's literally a fairy tale come true. But she should have realized something was wrong. They barely even knew each other when he proposed, and she found out he was still carrying on with Camilla before the wedding. 

Charles was born into a world (and at a time) where kings were just expected to have mistresses. Maybe he assumed Diana was OK with it when she accepted his proposal. Who knows. 

It's interesting to think that if Charles had just stuck to his guns and waited for Camilla, there would never have been a William and Harry, and likely no children between Charles and Camilla, meaning next in line would be Prince Andrew and his two daughters. (Although it's unlikely Andrew would have married Fergie if Diana hadn't introduced them so . . . again, who knows.)

Edited December 21, 2020 by iMonrey

[hookedontv]

On 12/19/2020 at 12:49 PM, iMonrey said:

Who on earth was she interviewing with the crazy eyebrows? Jiminy Christmas, he had one eyebrow hair protruding from his face about three inches long! Trim your damn eyebrows, man!

That eyebrow hair was in another zip code it stretched out so far!

I just wanted to reach into my TV and grab a hold and pluck it.

PS: Jiminy Christmas -- such a great but underused phrase. I am going to use it all through the holidays now.

Edited December 22, 2020 by hookedontv

[Ashtoast]

I most definitely think Bailey & Jeremy did it. Bailey is just covering for her boyfriend. & the cops ruling Jeremy out because “he was too innocent” because he “admitted to texting & driving”. That’s just manipulation 101. Admitting to small stuff so no one accuses you of bigger stuff. If you look like a “goody good” then of course you can’t shoot anyone. & who drives to someone’s house just because they get a text that says their name?? That was clearly the “sign” to come do the job. The police missed an obvious one on this one. I think the family knows Bailey had involvement in it but they would rather not lose another person (to prison) so they just live & let go. But Chris even says in the ending interview that he has told Bailey they can talk about that night whenever. Sure, that could be interpreted multiple ways... but to me, he’s telling her that she can confess & he will still love her unconditionally. 
Plain & simple, Chris really had no motive. But Bailey & Jeremy did have motive for wanting both of her parents dead. They just missed Chris...barely...