All Episodes Discussion

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I think maybe Ellie didn't get into her dad's face sooner or insist on visiting mom in the mental hospital because she was actually enjoying being out from under her tiger mom. Maybe she's ashamed to admit this now because of how it all turned out. She's cut off ties with her dad and put him on Dateline, so at least we don't have the delusional syndrome we saw in Thursday night's episode.

You guys have already said everything else I was gonna say, so I will just add, damn, Angela's side of the family are some good looking, accomplished women! 

That’s what I thought too, which is part of why I first thought the daughter could have done something to harm mom. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by GussieK

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Fable said:

I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think she was involved because I don’t, but the show made a point of talking about how brilliant she was, so it was odd that she lacked critical thinking here. 

I don't think critical thinking had anything to do with it.  Ellie was what?  18, 20 tops?  She was a college student.  Doesn't matter how brilliant she is or isn't.  At that age, you're just beginning to figure out your own stuff as an emerging adult. To challenge your parents at that age is a thing, never mind that your dad is telling you some strange story about your mother being dead.  That's a huge leap to expect Ellie to make, especially as an only child.  She had no sibling perspective for context, and I think her dad played on that and on the authority he had by being her father.  I think asking Ellie to tackle this was a huge ask and an unfair one.

Her cousin is instrumental in this.  Dateline made a point of saying Ellie's cousin was seven years older.  Seven years is huge in terms of adult maturity. In addition to being a lawyer, she had been in the working world.  The world of college is very different from the actual world, so I don't fault Ellie for what she didn't do,  I fault the one person who should be at fault---Jeff.

[Fable]

22 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I don't think critical thinking had anything to do with it.  Ellie was what?  18, 20 tops?  She was a college student.  Doesn't matter how brilliant she is or isn't.  At that age, you're just beginning to figure out your own stuff as an emerging adult. To challenge your parents at that age is a thing, never mind that your dad is telling you some strange story about your mother being dead.  That's a huge leap to expect Ellie to make, especially as an only child.  She had no sibling perspective for context, and I think her dad played on that and on the authority he had by being her father.  I think asking Ellie to tackle this was a huge ask and an unfair one.

You know what, you’re right.  I was looking at this from my point of view as an adult without considering the fact that Ellie was quite young and not a fully formed adult. 

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

She and her cousin are the reason this made it to Dateline. I’m impressed by her pushing to find out what happened. 

I loved the bit with the mention of them making flow charts to kinda get an idea of where to go depending on how he answered. That's a good idea. 

[Melina22]

40 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Iloved the bit with the mention of them making flow charts to kinda get an idea of where to go depending on how he answered. That's a good idea. 

Me too. But it made me laugh. It seemed like such a lawyer-y thing to do, so analytical. But a great idea nonetheless. 

[iMonrey]

I could swear I've seen Hope Whispers before. Either that or there was some other case that was eerily similar (which, sadly, may very well be true).

Quote

The story didn’t make me wonder if the daughter did anything, but didn’t  they start the episode with how brilliant she is?  Unhappy household or not, who wouldn’t question a story about their parent being kidnapped in a grocery store parking lot, or being told to keep the death of that parent secret from family?  So many points at which she should or could have asked questions but didn’t. There’s being an obedient child and then there’s being willfully blind.  She was a university student, not a toddler. 

I hate to say it but the daughter just didn't seem all that bright. I mean I know she had a 4.4 GPA and was in college so clearly she's not a dummy but maybe she's just not a great communicator, or she's the type who's book smart and people dumb. I will say she is stunningly beautiful. And I tend to think  people that attractive don't have much motivation to develop strong personalities, so maybe that's part of it. 

[12catcrazy]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

 

I hate to say it but the daughter just didn't seem all that bright. I mean I know she had a 4.4 GPA and was in college so clearly she's not a dummy but maybe she's just not a great communicator, or she's the type who's book smart and people dumb. I will say she is stunningly beautiful. And I tend to think  people that attractive don't have much motivation to develop strong personalities, so maybe that's part of it. 

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who thought this.  When we were told about her GPA and how many languages she speaks, I was rather surprised, as she doesn't come off as being brilliant.  Maybe under the flashy beauty she is a Nerd and the Dateline spotlight makes her uncomfortable.   On a terrible shallow note, she obviously didn't get her looks from her father (unless it's deeper in the family tree), and she looked much more Asian when she was a little girl than she does now.  

I really hope that she and her Mother's family find out what happened.  The father is obviously guilty of something.  

Edited November 1, 2020 by 12catcrazy
typo

[EtheltoTillie]

On 10/31/2020 at 4:59 PM, Ohmo said:

I don't think critical thinking had anything to do with it.  Ellie was what?  18, 20 tops?  She was a college student.  Doesn't matter how brilliant she is or isn't.  At that age, you're just beginning to figure out your own stuff as an emerging adult. To challenge your parents at that age is a thing, never mind that your dad is telling you some strange story about your mother being dead.  That's a huge leap to expect Ellie to make, especially as an only child.  She had no sibling perspective for context, and I think her dad played on that and on the authority he had by being her father.  I think asking Ellie to tackle this was a huge ask and an unfair one.

Her cousin is instrumental in this.  Dateline made a point of saying Ellie's cousin was seven years older.  Seven years is huge in terms of adult maturity. In addition to being a lawyer, she had been in the working world.  The world of college is very different from the actual world, so I don't fault Ellie for what she didn't do,  I fault the one person who should be at fault---Jeff.

I think it is critical thinking. Being able to use your spidey sense. Applying skepticism. Either she was too sheltered or lacking in critical thinking skills. You can have those skills even though young. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by GussieK

[Irlandesa]

I did post that I was confused as to why she didn't say something sooner but I don't think it means anything about her intelligence. 

In her defense, our senses of what's "normal" and our skepticism can be warped by family. 

 

[nora1992]

On 10/30/2020 at 7:42 PM, Irlandesa said:

Yep.  And the reason he gave was pretty stupid if it's true that there was a skylight in the bathroom.

I started to wonder if maybe the doctor was covering for his daughter, because of the coffee cup.  He went running, mom and daughter have a fight, he comes home, makes the coffee, goes upstairs, and finds horror upstairs.  
This is pure conjecture on my part, since no evidence of this was ever presented.  I’m most likely adding 1 and 1 and coming up with 13, but that thought occurred to me.  Why leave so much incriminating evidence and hope a cup of coffee will clear you?

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, nora1992 said:

I started to wonder if maybe the doctor was covering for his daughter, because of the coffee cup.  He went running, mom and daughter have a fight, he comes home, makes the coffee, goes upstairs, and finds horror upstairs.  

From the start of the show I assumed it was going to be the daughter. I guess I was wrong.

[hookedontv]

On 11/1/2020 at 3:47 PM, 12catcrazy said:

On 11/1/2020 at 12:22 PM, iMonrey said:

 

 

I hate to say it but the daughter just didn't seem all that bright. I mean I know she had a 4.4 GPA and was in college so clearly she's not a dummy but maybe she's just not a great communicator, or she's the type who's book smart and people dumb. I will say she is stunningly beautiful. And I tend to think  people that attractive don't have much motivation to develop strong personalities, so maybe that's part of it. 

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who thought this.  When we were told about her GPA and how many languages she speaks, I was rather surprised, as she doesn't come off as being brilliant.  Maybe under the flashy beauty she is a Nerd and the Dateline spotlight makes her uncomfortable.   On a terrible shallow note, she obviously didn't get her looks from her father (unless it's deeper in the family tree), and she looked much more Asian when she was a little girl than she does now.  

I really hope that she and her Mother's family find out what happened.  The father is obviously guilty of something.

Thank you. Count me on on this. I knew I'd be at the Forum wriing about my frustrations! I was extremely frustrated by the daughter's lack of questioning or action. I don't care if she was 18 or 20 and had just lost her mom. Perhaps Ellie is "book smart" but not "street/common sense smart." Damn girl, your dad says NOT to tell your mom's relatives she's dead. And Ellie told the interviewer "that wasn't my place." At 18, even if I didn't suspect my dad of having done anything wrong (even though his actions and words were clearly lies and made no sense) I would have at the VERY least thought my dad had lost his marbles with grief and I would have contacted my relatives. I would never have accepted the first story of my mom being taken off the street and my dad not telling me where she was. There's no way in hell I would have accepted not telling relatives, not having any sort of service, and not getting one single answer.

I'm getting angry all over again! I cannot believe that the authorities cannot do one single thing with this guy. The dad really got under my skin and it infuriates me that he is not going to be held accountable. 

[MsJamieDornan]

8 hours ago, hookedontv said:

I would have at the VERY least thought my dad had lost his marbles with grief and I would have contacted my relatives.

What I didn't understand was, after her dad called and told her about her mom, why didn't she move back in with him? It was her mom that kicked her out of the house, I assume she got along fine with her dad. And  wouldn't she want to be with him during all this? Well, before she knew what was really going on.

[Irlandesa]

Am I to presume our regular "dead wives club and their murdering husbands (and sometimes vice versa)" stories have been pre-empted this week with "news" news except not news quite yet? 

I am trying to regulate my blood pressure so that means limiting how I consume news. As soon as I don't see the comfort of "Hello, I'm Lester Holt" at the beginning, I've been turning it off so I don't know if they eventually go into a murder mystery or not. 

I'm guessing not?

[Annber03]

Yeah, no new episode tonight in my area. Just more election coverage. 

[TVbitch]

No episode on the west coast. 😞Looks like The First 48 started a new season Thursday night, though, for those who need their true crime! 

[CraftyHazel]

On 11/1/2020 at 11:22 AM, iMonrey said:

I could swear I've seen Hope Whispers before. Either that or there was some other case that was eerily similar (which, sadly, may very well be true).

I hate to say it but the daughter just didn't seem all that bright. I mean I know she had a 4.4 GPA and was in college so clearly she's not a dummy but maybe she's just not a great communicator, or she's the type who's book smart and people dumb. I will say she is stunningly beautiful. And I tend to think  people that attractive don't have much motivation to develop strong personalities, so maybe that's part of it. 

I agree that she didn’t seem as bright as she apparently is.  Her GPA and speaking several languages prove she’s intelligent.  But her affect is so incredibly flat.  When you hear her in the taped calls, asking her father the hard questions about why there was no death certificate, no ashes, etc., she sounds beyond calm, she sounds like she’s reading a grocery list.  There’s no animation, no emotion.  Never a crack in her voice, never sounds upset or like she’s been crying.  It’s very strange.

[Annber03]

Such a wild, creepy story in tonight's episode. That footage from the parking garage the day of the shooting, as well as the general timeline of how they followed Kendra there, was just so chilling. And to think Brenda had been stalking her for months prior, even during the time Kendra's niece was visiting-that part actually made me gasp. I shudder to think of who else could've wound up in Brenda's path had they been in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

And poor Kendra had no clue as to any of this scheme. She died thinking she was likely just being robbed or something, she had no idea how deep this ran. So incredibly sad. 

And her life was worth some cocaine and weed to Kristopher. Hope it was worth it, bud. Also love the stupidity (and sheer gall) of taking selfies and photos of the money they nabbed after committing the crime. Idiots. 

[Irlandesa]

I think this is one of the few times when the boyfriend/girlfriend didn't appear in the interviews with Dateline and had nothing to do with the murder.  Then again, those are pretty rare to begin with. 

It's just so crazy and sad.  The shooter did it for cocaine and weed.  The driver did it for $500.  I know that can be a lot of money for some people but it's mind boggling that someone would take someone's life and risk their own freedom for such a paltry sum.

I liked the detective in tonight's episode. 

[Crashcourse]

I found it sad and hard to believe that the doctor boyfriend was so clueless and careless with the crazy ex-girlfriend who was stalking him.   Sure, it was nice that he wanted to be friends with her and help her after they broke up, but she was his ex, and poor Kendra apparently had no clue about that relationship.  If she had, she might have broken it off so he and the ex could get back together.

[TVbitch]

I was like, wow, for once the boyfriend didn't kill her. ...But his obtuseness contributed to getting her killed. 

I've dated many guys who have had exes still in their lives as friends. You meet these women and it is quickly apparent which ones are actually cool with just being friends, and which ones still have lingering feelings or an unhealthy attachment to the guy. Often the guy allows it, cuz they don't like confrontation, or are oblivious to the fact that the woman still wants him. If she is showing up at your dance class or your jogging path, time to run for the hills, dude. I wonder if he even told Kendra about that, cuz I would take my leave of that situation ASAP. 

[Crashcourse]

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I was like, wow, for once the boyfriend didn't kill her. ...But his obtuseness contributed to getting her killed. 

I've dated many guys who have had exes still in their lives as friends. You meet these women and it is quickly apparent which ones are actually cool with just being friends, and which ones still have lingering feelings or an unhealthy attachment to the guy. Often the guy allows it, cuz they don't like confrontation, or are oblivious to the fact that the woman still wants him. If she is showing up at your dance class or your jogging path, time to run for the hills, dude. I wonder if he even told Kendra about that, cuz I would take my leave of that situation ASAP. 

Also, he and the ex dated for a couple years, broke up, got back together again, then broke up.  I think the boyfriend might have given the crazy ex girlfriend mixed signals, and she might have thought they'd get back together, yet again.   It's too bad Kendra didn't know the whole story because I think she might have washed her hands of the whole mess.

[Ohmo]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I liked the detective in tonight's episode. 

Me too...and yay for 18 minutes!  The jury didn't buy any of the defense's foolishness.  Yes, Crystal lied, but she didn't know Kendra.  Kendra's boyfriend's ex was Brenda.  That plus the sunset video and the parade of people Brenda tried to involve in this plot would be enough for me to know that what Crystal was saying overall was true---Brenda was involved.  It wasn't just Kristopher and Crystal.

[Annber03]

40 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Me too...and yay for 18 minutes!  The jury didn't buy any of the defense's foolishness.  Yes, Crystal lied, but she didn't know Kendra.  Kendra's boyfriend's ex was Brenda.  That plus the sunset video and the parade of people Brenda tried to involve in this plot would be enough for me to know that what Crystal was saying overall was true---Brenda was involved.  It wasn't just Kristopher and Crystal.

This. The idea that they would've just happened to stumble upon Kendra of all people as their victim would've been too much of a coincidence. 

On another note, thank goodness for that 16 year old kid who entered the parking lot when he did-he made for a good witness and was able to get the police out there pretty quickly. He was also quite brave, going out there upon hearing gunshots-he's very lucky that he wasn't hurt in all the craziness. 

[Melina22]

15 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I was like, wow, for once the boyfriend didn't kill her. ...But his obtuseness contributed to getting her killed. 

To be fair to him, it's possible she was extremely good at hiding her obsessive, homicidal side. If she was able to pretend convincingly that she was okay with the breakup, why would he think his current girlfriend was in danger? 

I'm stunned it was so easy for Brenda to find 2 outwardly normal people willing to kill someone because she was jealous. "You want me to help kill an innocent person in broad daylight for $500? No problem! Let's eat out after." 

[Annber03]

23 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I'm stunned it was so easy for Brenda to find 2 outwardly normal people willing to kill someone because she was jealous. "You want me to help kill an innocent person in broad daylight for $500? No problem! Let's eat out after." 

I liked when her one friend was like, "It's pretty disturbing that so many people mentioned her trying to get them in on her plan and nobody said anything or reported this to the police." I've noticed that happens an awful lot on these kinds of shows. I can get thinking someone's just joking at first, perhaps, but even so, if they're getting into super detailed plans and keep bringing up the idea and whatnot, at some point, I'd like to think my antenna would be going up and I'd start wondering what the hell's going on here. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I liked when her one friend was like, "It's pretty disturbing that so many people mentioned her trying to get them in on her plan and nobody said anything or reported this to the police." I've noticed that happens an awful lot on these kinds of shows. I can get thinking someone's just joking at first, perhaps, but even so, if they're getting into super detailed plans and keep bringing up the idea and whatnot, at some point, I'd like to think my antenna would be going up and I'd start wondering what the hell's going on here. 

As a Dateline watcher I would also be worried that the police would ask me to pretend I'm willing so they could get a video of money changing hands while I've prompted the mastermind to say the word "kill" and not just "take care of."  I've seen it all get very scary for the poor squealer.  I would still do it to save someone's life though.  How could you sleep again knowing it might be going down at any minute?

I also question  how the "kindest" man who ever walked the earth  could live with Brenda for two years and never once see the dark side?  Were they never watching TV together when she muttered something along the lines of, "If someone did that to me, I'd throw acid on her face?"  or curse out the noisy kid next  door, or kick a puppy?  Two years is a long time to hide your evil.  

If I was a patient person I would make a list of all the hired killers on Dateline and how much each one  charged. There's no pay equity in the business, I know that.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Me too...and yay for 18 minutes!  The jury didn't buy any of the defense's foolishness.  Yes, Crystal lied, but she didn't know Kendra.  Kendra's boyfriend's ex was Brenda.  That plus the sunset video and the parade of people Brenda tried to involve in this plot would be enough for me to know that what Crystal was saying overall was true---Brenda was involved.  It wasn't just Kristopher and Crystal.

I think this case was more cut and dry and than Dateline tried to make it seem. They kept saying the only evidence they had against Brenda was Crystal's testimony but . . . that simply wasn't true. Brenda is the one who borrowed the jeep that was used in the crime! That was an established fact, not just another claim of Crystal's. It didn't really matter how many lies Crystal told, it was Brenda who had the direct connection to her ex's new girlfriend, not Crystal. The parade of witnesses who testified Brenda asked them to help her kill Kendra and/or Ricky was just icing on the cake. 

No wonder it only took the jury 18 minutes to reach a verdict. 

[hookedontv]

On 11/15/2020 at 6:49 AM, Melina22 said:

I'm stunned it was so easy for Brenda to find 2 outwardly normal people willing to kill someone because she was jealous. "You want me to help kill an innocent person in broad daylight for $500? No problem! Let's eat out after." 

Apparently, we walk among evil people and have no clue about it. Scary. 

[Ellee]

Does anyone watch ‘Buried in the Backyard’?   Don’t have time to find the right forum and have to say this.  This post and a couple of bucks will get you a coffee. 
 

Just watched ‘Buried under the House in a crawlspace’.  A 14 yr old boy went missing.  Turns out the stepfather killed him. Buried him under the house.  ‘They’ claimed the boy ran away.  Stepfather got away with it for 14 or 15 years.   He explained the decaying smell to his wife and other kids was ‘a pet snake that got away and died somewhere in the house.  
 

I can’t believe this boy’s mother bought that story.  Even I wouldn’t have bought it.  I’m interested to hear your opinions.   
 

 

[crowsworks]

On 11/1/2020 at 12:22 PM, iMonrey said:

I could swear I've seen Hope Whispers before. Either that or there was some other case that was eerily similar (which, sadly, may very well be true).

I hate to say it but the daughter just didn't seem all that bright. I mean I know she had a 4.4 GPA and was in college so clearly she's not a dummy but maybe she's just not a great communicator, or she's the type who's book smart and people dumb. I will say she is stunningly beautiful. And I tend to think  people that attractive don't have much motivation to develop strong personalities, so maybe that's part of it. 

Sorry but this reminded me of the 30 Rock with Jon Hamm. It was a hilarious exploration of beautiful people getting a pass on grades, careers, everything.

[crowsworks]

On a different subject - Vanessa being killed at Fort Hood. Murder aside (I know, it can't be aside) But how did the killer take a huge rollie cart out of the armory and put it into his personal car. The armory??? with a body in it, sure but no one looked inside to see.

[iMonrey]

There was a lot of missing info in the "Voices for Vanessa" case. The episode served more as a PSA about sexual harassment in the military than it did about Vanessa herself. The guy who murdered her was an enigma. They didn't even try to give us any kind of background or info that would have shed some light on why he might have done this. For all we know, Vanessa's murder may have had absolutely nothing to do with the sexual harassment she was experiencing. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by iMonrey

[CraftyHazel]

“Point Black”.  First of all, anytime someone uses the phrase “I spoke my truth”, I flat out believe they’re a liar.  I hate that phrase.

Jenae Chance told lie after lie and tied her own noose.  I absolutely believe the jury got it right.  I feel so sorry for the victim’s parents.

[Ashforth]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:31 AM, CraftyHazel said:

I agree that she didn’t seem as bright as she apparently is.  Her GPA and speaking several languages prove she’s intelligent.  But her affect is so incredibly flat.  When you hear her in the taped calls, asking her father the hard questions about why there was no death certificate, no ashes, etc., she sounds beyond calm, she sounds like she’s reading a grocery list.  There’s no animation, no emotion.  Never a crack in her voice, never sounds upset or like she’s been crying.  It’s very strange.

She may have seemed emotionless because she and her cousin had literally rehearsed the questions and charted out follow up questions depending on his responses. 

42 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

“Point Black”.  First of all, anytime someone uses the phrase “I spoke my truth”, I flat out believe they’re a liar.  I hate that phrase.

Jenae Chance told lie after lie and tied her own noose.  I absolutely believe the jury got it right.  I feel so sorry for the victim’s parents.

I think Jenea was a pretty convincing liar in the first Dateline interview. Not so much in the post-conviction one. "I'm an elementary school principal, which proves that I didn't kill my husband."

I liked that Dateline sprinkled hints along the way, like showing Jenea saying she couldn't have her contacts in jail the first time she was arrested. Likewise, nothing was said at the time, but when they showed the footage of Jenea walking into the courthouse for the civil suit over the life insurance policy, I immediately thought, Damn! That's the woman who was walking down the street in that video. The long stride and exaggerated arm swing were exactly the same.

I didn't like the detective. 

I feel bad for Todd's parents and even worse for the daughters. It's heartbreaking to see kids whose one parent killed the other cling so desperately to denying the killer's guilt and become estranged from family members who love them. Jenea really screwed her children with her selfish, vicious actions.

[Lizzing]

I was freakin' astounded that a payphone still existed in 2013. The last time I encountered a working payphone was 2011.  I'm not debating that fact of the case--I was just floored.

The lead detective struck me as an idiot.  He certainly wasn't fluent in the English language, though it was his first and probably only.  I think the collar on this one was the matter of "a broken clock is right twice a day".  Two things gave me pause though--first, the husband texted his old girlfriend "wanna play?" which isn't exactly the opening salvo of an otherwise faithful married man after 15+ years of marriage.  While he may never have gotten physical with that particular woman, I suspect he'd gone, or attempted to go, outside his marital bonds on other occasions.  Second, the person captured on the video surveillance looked much smaller (espeically around the neck & face) than the wife did at the time of the first round of Dateline interviews (which were close to the time of the murder).

More likely than not, the wife did it.  But there could have been a third woman who was pissed at him too.  He could have had a second phone that disappeared with her.  Probably not, but I get crazy conflicted when I strongly dislike the investigating detective.  And if the detective really did tell the eldest daughter that all of the video was the same day as the Walmart footage of her talking to the greeter, that's witness tampering.  Cops are allowed to lie to suspects (which should be unconstitutional, but that is a screed for another day) but they're not allowed to mislead or lead witnesses.  I might need to follow the appeal progress of this one, because it seems (with the usual caveat--from what Dateline has told us) there is some shenanigans that are worth pursuing.

[Ellee]

I just watched Point Blank. 
 

The same question as always ‘Hasn’t anyone heard of divorce?’  
 

The daughters will never have the life that they should have had.   Their father’s murder seemed to take 2nd place to their mother being the person that killed him.   
 

Hope the grandparents are around long enough for these girls to get to know them.   Their views might change somewhat.   Right now they can only see their mother as the victim.   
 

 

[Madding crowd]

Point Blank was one where I really wondered about her motive. I know there were life insurance policies, but no mention of her living some grand life besides getting weight loss surgery. As a school principal, I would think she had insurance to pay for that. 

I agree the detective didn’t seem too sharp. I wonder if they looked into other women he may have been involved with. This woman got caught because of contacts!

On another note, the detective said he was suspicious of her going to see the true crime show in Las Vegas ( was in a NCIS thing?). If that’s the case we are all suspect for liking true crime. And would you really try to recreate a crime that your whole family heard about? Not too smart. 

[LakeGal]

I was surprised that the wife was not a suspect immediately.  I kept asking why were they not suspecting her.  It took them quite awhile to get to that point.  It was sad watching the daughter recognize the bag and realize her mother was guilty.  Then she went back and talked with family and changed her mind.  

I believe the wife did it.

[Ashforth]

4 hours ago, Lizzing said:

I was freakin' astounded that a payphone still existed in 2013. The last time I encountered a working payphone was 2011.  I'm not debating that fact of the case--I was just floored.

The lead detective struck me as an idiot.  He certainly wasn't fluent in the English language, though it was his first and probably only.  I think the collar on this one was the matter of "a broken clock is right twice a day".  Two things gave me pause though--first, the husband texted his old girlfriend "wanna play?" which isn't exactly the opening salvo of an otherwise faithful married man after 15+ years of marriage.  While he may never have gotten physical with that particular woman, I suspect he'd gone, or attempted to go, outside his marital bonds on other occasions.  Second, the person captured on the video surveillance looked much smaller (espeically around the neck & face) than the wife did at the time of the first round of Dateline interviews (which were close to the time of the murder).

More likely than not, the wife did it.  But there could have been a third woman who was pissed at him too.  He could have had a second phone that disappeared with her.  Probably not, but I get crazy conflicted when I strongly dislike the investigating detective.  And if the detective really did tell the eldest daughter that all of the video was the same day as the Walmart footage of her talking to the greeter, that's witness tampering.  Cops are allowed to lie to suspects (which should be unconstitutional, but that is a screed for another day) but they're not allowed to mislead or lead witnesses.  I might need to follow the appeal progress of this one, because it seems (with the usual caveat--from what Dateline has told us) there is some shenanigans that are worth pursuing.

Remember phone booths? With three actual walls and a door? How times have changed. 

There are a lot of questions I have about the investigation (did they really go searching for random video footage of the cab instead of, say, calling the cab company to get the record of the ride? Where it went? How it was paid for? Whether the driver could identify Jenea?). Why didn't they get surveillance video of Jenea after the crime to compare to the video on the day of? Or did they? Why didn't Dateline mention the two family friends who testified that they recognized Jenea in the crime scene video? I know that Dateline and its ilk leave a lot of things out and play up others to prolong the "mystery", but they leave out interesting things such as that her first trial ended in a mistrial because the public defender's office had a conflict of interest. Yes, I did do some internet research after the show.  

The detective struck me as one who decides a suspect is guilty and will play dirty to make the case. He apparently withheld evidence that could arguably have been exculpatory. But I think the bottom line is that there was a ton of evidence against Jenea and between the gun, the car, the timeline and the video, a third person outside the family as the killer just doesn't add up.

Her lie about the contacts destroyed her credibility, but the evidence was already there. I think that like many murderers, Jenea thought she was smarter than anyone else and could explain away all of the evidence against her. She still thinks so or she wouldn't appear on Dateline again. How about when her lawyer told her not answer the reporter's question about the contacts and she ignored him? Arrogant and stupid.

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Point Blank was one where I really wondered about her motive. I know there were life insurance policies, but no mention of her living some grand life besides getting weight loss surgery. As a school principal, I would think she had insurance to pay for that. 

I agree the detective didn’t seem too sharp. I wonder if they looked into other women he may have been involved with. This woman got caught because of contacts!

On another note, the detective said he was suspicious of her going to see the true crime show in Las Vegas ( was in a NCIS thing?). If that’s the case we are all suspect for liking true crime. And would you really try to recreate a crime that your whole family heard about? Not too smart. 

They mentioned casually that she had the weight loss surgery before the murder. The insurance policies didn't add up to that much money and Todd's parents managed to get some of it to the daughters. I think the rest hadn't been paid out because she was the prime suspect.

I think her motive was that she did know about Todd's renewed relationship with the ex-girlfriend. On of the articles I read said that in addition to the flirty texts and nude pics, they were making fun of Jenea in their messages.

The thing about CSI: The Experience being a tutorial for getting away with murder was silly. There are a ton of "real life crime" shows on TV that can provide all of the do's and don'ts. 

49 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

I was surprised that the wife was not a suspect immediately.  I kept asking why were they not suspecting her.  It took them quite awhile to get to that point.  It was sad watching the daughter recognize the bag and realize her mother was guilty.  Then she went back and talked with family and changed her mind.  

I believe the wife did it.

She was the prime suspect from the very beginning, but the prosecutors wanted enough evidence to get past reasonable doubt at trial.

The moment when daughter Jessica realized that her mother was guilty was striking. She denies it now, and feels responsible for the conviction, but she knows the truth.

[UsernameFatigue]

6 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Point Blank was one where I really wondered about her motive. I know there were life insurance policies, but no mention of her living some grand life besides getting weight loss surgery. As a school principal, I would think she had insurance to pay for that. 

I agree the detective didn’t seem too sharp. I wonder if they looked into other women he may have been involved with. This woman got caught because of contacts!

On another note, the detective said he was suspicious of her going to see the true crime show in Las Vegas ( was in a NCIS thing?). If that’s the case we are all suspect for liking true crime. And would you really try to recreate a crime that your whole family heard about? Not too smart. 

But it was so much more than contacts. It was claiming not to know how to drive a stick, when her fingerprints were found on the gear shift, steering wheel and driver's side door of the car. It was claiming to be on her computer at the time of the murder, when it was proven that she was not. It was the neighbour seeing a woman wearing a ball cap and glasses in the passenger side of her husband's car, leaving the residence. It was the video of her asking the greeter at Walmart where the pay phone was, the same Walmart that the suspect then went to after the murder, to use the pay phone. It was the fact that the suspect made her way back to basically the area where Jenae lived after the murder. It is the fact that Janae had the exact same walk as the suspect, beautifully pointed out by Dateline itself in a video of slim Janae. And if you are going to kill your hubby but claim to love him, have at least one picture of him in your office where you have numerous other family pictures. And don't reenact parts of a murder plot that you and your family chose as entertainment on your LV vacation. Oh, and the daughter recognized the backpack the suspect was carrying. So much more than contacts. 

But yes, if you are going to claim not to wear contacts, only glasses, don't go on Dateline not wearing glasses and talk about wearing glasses and contacts. 

I also wondered about a motive, as it seems like she likely made more money than he did and the investigation did not mention money problems which is often the case in these failed marriages. I agree with a poster above who said that he likely cheated on Janae other times, than just his attempt to rekindle things with an old girlfriend. But again, why not just divorce? I don't get why these men and women take the chance of leaving their kids without either parent, not to mention taking away from their children a parent who by all accounts was a pretty good one, even if he wasn't such an upstanding husband. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by UsernameFatigue

[Annber03]

Yeah, the contacts thing was...very awkward. My mom caught that little trip up before they even pointed it out. The surveillance videos were interesting, but yeah, so much was made of them, despite the fact the footage was grainy and it wasn't always easy to get a good look at the person in them to be sure it was her. So I am glad they didn't hang their entire case solely on those videos. Though I do agree that the way the case was investigated was messy. 

5 hours ago, Lizzing said:

Two things gave me pause though--first, the husband texted his old girlfriend "wanna play?" which isn't exactly the opening salvo of an otherwise faithful married man after 15+ years of marriage.  While he may never have gotten physical with that particular woman, I suspect he'd gone, or attempted to go, outside his marital bonds on other occasions.

This. I know they said the other woman had an alibi for that day, but I would've liked to hear more about and perhaps from her as well. Especially considering she first rejected his advances...only to later send some explicit photos of herself. That's quite a turnaround, and even if things never got physical between them, like you said, it does indicate there was something going on there. I do think it's very likely the wife did it-she has the most reason to kill him-but if this guy was seeing another woman, or perhaps more than one, well... It is true that investigators can often be guilty of tunnel vision. 

18 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

I think her motive was that she did know about Todd's renewed relationship with the ex-girlfriend. On of the articles I read said that in addition to the flirty texts and nude pics, they were making fun of Jenea in their messages.

Oh, really? That's interesting. 

But I agree that that would've likely been her motive. Lord knows people have killed for less, after all. Since the weight loss happened before the murder, if she did suspect her husband was seeing other women, my guess is she was trying to do whatever she could to make herself more attractive to him again, saw it wasn't working, and got angry and went after him as a result. 

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

And would you really try to recreate a crime that your whole family heard about? Not too smart. 

Honestly, given some of the stupid criminals we've seen on here in the past, I can believe someone being dumb enough to do that :p. 

[Madding crowd]

The weight loss didn’t happen before the murder as she was still heavy in her first Dateline interview. I think she did it but agree that much of the evidence was circumstantial. Going to see the CSI experience is not proof of anything nor the daughter identifying her in a different video than the one where she was disguised. I also think they were shaky on a motive but of course she had one we just don’t know what it is.

As far as her fingerprints on the drivers side of the car ; when my husband first got a new car I hadn’t driven it yet but I lost an earring and for some reason it was easier for me to get in on the drivers side to look for it. You just never think of these things! 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Madding crowd

[iMonrey]

I was on the fence about Jenae until the lie about the contacts. And I agree the investigator didn't seem too bright so that's mostly what kept me undecided at first.

I'm starting to see why some of you have an issue with Andrea Canning. She tends to ask overly leading, melodramatic questions just to get the person to repeat what she's saying, like "the plot is really starting to thicken at this point, right?" or some such. Now granted, Keith and Dennis and Josh probably engage in the same shenanigans themselves so maybe there's a double standard here, but something Andrea asked one of the subjects in this one just made me roll my eyes.

Quote

I feel bad for Todd's parents and even worse for the daughters. It's heartbreaking to see kids whose one parent killed the other cling so desperately to denying the killer's guilt and become estranged from family members who love them. Jenea really screwed her children with her selfish, vicious actions.

And it happens time after time. I guess it's just human nature to not want to believe a parent could kill your other parent. That wouldn't be an issue in my family 😁

[Ellee]

The daughters ‘bothered’ me.  It seemed to me that their mother has been in their ears telling them what to think.   

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm starting to see why some of you have an issue with Andrea Canning. She tends to ask overly leading, melodramatic questions just to get the person to repeat what she's saying, like "the plot is really starting to thicken at this point, right?" or some such. Now granted, Keith and Dennis and Josh probably engage in the same shenanigans themselves so maybe there's a double standard here, but something Andrea asked one of the subjects in this one just made me roll my eyes.

There was one moment last night when the investigator was talking about the photos that were found on the phone, and how they weren't of the guy's wife, and she said something like, "What does that tell you?" My mom and I were like, "Gee. I don't know, what do you think it says?"

[Ashforth]

55 minutes ago, Ellee said:

The daughters ‘bothered’ me.  It seemed to me that their mother has been in their ears telling them what to think.   

I hope that they haven't spent their parts of the life insurance money to pay for her lawyer, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have.

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

The weight loss didn’t happen before the murder as she was still heavy in her first Dateline interview.

The weight loss timeline is wonky. She had the weight loss surgery before the murder, but how long before? It was suggested that she didn't lose weight post-surgery, but the detective said that she claimed it couldn't be her in the videos because that person was way bigger than she was. In the videos from the day of the crime and the interrogation room, I didn't think she looked as heavy as she did in the 2013 Dateline interview. Then after she thought she was getting away with killing Todd, the weight just "melted off".

I'm unduly fascinated by this story.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Ashforth

[TVbitch]

I think she did it, moreso than anything cuz, if not her, who? After going through his phone/computer/gadgets they did not find anyone else in his life but the wife and the ex. Let alone another heavyset women who would have had access to his gun, his car, etc. And anyone who says "I did not have my contacts with me" clearly has been and is a contact lens wearer!

If she did do it, she is one cool fucking customer. She came off pretty credible talking to the cops on-scene, the detectives, and Dateline. I did notice she never showed any emotion about the husband, even as the father was breaking down in the police room. You would think with such a meticulous plan in place she might have tried to disguise her hair or body-type while wandering around after the crime. 

The daughter's gutteral outburst when she knew said it all. That was a deep knowing. Though I'm not surprised she found her way back into denial later. 

Andrea Canning in every Dateline episode: "So you find out X has been murdered! How did that feel?!!?!" Great Andrea, it felt fucking fantastic! 

[UsernameFatigue]

I was googling the case, looking for info that Dateline might not have reported but didn't really come across anything else to add. I did however come across Todd's obituary, which is pretty cold. It states that he liked playing video games with his girls, and was married to his wife for 17 years. Nothing about leaving a loving wife, or a devastated family to mourn him. You know, the things you might see in the obituary of someone who died unexpectedly, not to mention violently due to a murder. Guess along with not displaying his picture in her office, Jenea could not muster anything too emotional in Todd's obit, despite her insistence to police that they got along great and she missed him terribly. 

[Ellee]

Did I miss where the police found where Todd Chance was actually shot and killed?  Would Janae have been able to move him to where he was found?   He was a big man.  It didn’t sound as if he was dragged. 
 

I really think she did it but I have to wonder who else would/could have been involved.