All Episodes Discussion

[Josette]

12 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Tonight’s episode was interesting, and I do believe the right person was convicted of Michelle’s murder.

I agree.  It had to be him.

Regarding the episode about Bonnie Haim's disappearance/murder, her father passed away and I don't think he lived to see his daughter's body discovered.  Maybe he would have changed his mind about the son-in-law and then the mother would have as well.  Perhaps she can't accept that her late husband was wrong.

[cooksdelight]

This Dooley guy has a bunch of women supporting him on a Facebook page. One lady in particular is rabid if you say anything bad about him. She claims the time cards were never missing. But the wife said he didn’t have keys to anyone’s office. And he had the screwdriver that matched up with the marks made on the door. If that prosecutor and the cop hadn’t had an affair, I doubt there would be this much of an uproar over his conviction. 

[Irlandesa]

I will say that I thought it was a dirty trick for the prosecution to thrown their alleged motive out in the closing mainly because it sounds like they didn't present any evidence of double dipping in the trial. 

[TVbitch]

Was it proven that Dooley and his wife were double dipping? The defense lady was aghast at that being the motive: "Like he is going to kill someone because they discovered his theft!" Bitch please, people have killed for MUCH less. Dooley would have been looking at restitution and jail time, not to mention the end of his easy cash scheme.

As far as the hosts, maybe it's like Sex and the City. Are you a Keith, a Josh, a Denis, or a Canning! 

PS. I doubt any of you will know what I am talking about, but I must point out that the newsreporter from the NBC affiliate with the super gravely voice sounded EXACTLY like Ken Seeley from Intervention.

Edited June 29, 2019 by TVbitch

[cooksdelight]

12 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Was it proven that Dooley and his wife were double dipping?

She admitted it on that FB page, said he’d clocked her in when she wasn’t even working. The thing that stuck out for me was them not having their stories straight. I mean, he planned this, it seems .... was breaking into her office to retrieve the time cards, got caught by surprise. I would have discussed with the wife the night before or morning of to let her know what was going down. The rabid lady keeps making a big deal out of her placing her lunch on her desk, then was attacked. That, to me, says he was hiding and laying in wait for her once he heard her coming.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

She admitted it on that FB page, said he’d clocked her in when she wasn’t even working. The thing that stuck out for me was them not having their stories straight. I mean, he planned this, it seems .... was breaking into her office to retrieve the time cards, got caught by surprise. I would have discussed with the wife the night before or morning of to let her know what was going down. The rabid lady keeps making a big deal out of her placing her lunch on her desk, then was attacked. That, to me, says he was hiding and laying in wait for her once he heard her coming.

The time cards were big for me because they were something that were directly tied to Michelle.   Her job was payroll.  Plus, the location of her office.  It was located in the inner part of the plant.  It's not like an intruder would break in, and opportunity is right inside the door.  You have to go well into the plant to get to her office, which is an indication of someone with knowledge of the plant.

The video also did nothing for me.  The guy was clearly throwing something away in an available trash can.  He didn't try to enter the plant, didn't seem to be casing the place, and we never heard that he showed up on the tape again.

I also thought Dooley's lawyers incredulous response about motive was misplaced.  When it comes to money, people have killed over amounts large or small.  Motive seems completely plausible to me.

[ridethemaverick]

Did anyone else catch the male defense attorney slip up? They were addressing the double dipping and he jumped in and said "oh please, it had nothing to do with that...uh..." and then he rambled a bit. He seemed rattled like he knew he messed up. It may have meant nothing but it struck me as his subconscious thoughts about his client making themselves known. Like yeah, of course he did it, but not for something as stupid as that LOL.

[Madding crowd]

One thing I wondered about was why the victim was working on payroll at such odd hours. Did she have other supervisory duties in the late night shift? I don’t know anything about this company but most payroll people I have known work 9-5 type hours. 

[Irlandesa]

27 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

One thing I wondered about was why the victim was working on payroll at such odd hours. Did she have other supervisory duties in the late night shift? I don’t know anything about this company but most payroll people I have known work 9-5 type hours. 

Typically they do but I've occasionally known payroll people to flex their hours around payroll. I can see her coming in early, especially if payroll is due to the bank at a certain time. 

I think that's probably why Dooley was surprised by her, if indeed that is what happened.  He wasn't expecting her until later but she happened to come in early that day.

[Madding crowd]

It also seemed like she was locked in her office and he pried the door open to get in. Was he attempting to get his cards with his hours listed? Even if his plan was to kill her so no one could tell he was fudging hours, wouldn’t someone else do the payroll and find the cards missing? I am missing something here and I still wonder about the random dude who apparently went on company property in the middle of the night to throw out garbage. 

[woodscommaelle]

That female attorney at the end was all kinds of awful. 

[biakbiak]

35 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

am missing something here and I still wonder about the random dude who apparently went on company property in the middle of the night to throw out garbage. 

It wasn’t in the middle of the night it was ten hours prior but it was light outside you could see the green of the grass and trees and everything else because there was daylight since it was summer.

[Hava]

Episodes like the Dooley cases irritate me because the show initially presents the case against the defendant as flimsy and only based on one thing (here, the inconsistent story about why he went home) and makes the viewer think it would be crazy to prosecute or convict someone on such a little evidence. But then the episode reveals, almost as a side note, only towards the end CRITICAL pieces of evidence that the jury would have heard that makes guilt much more likely--like the screwdriver and the missing shoes.

I don't know. I don't like when the episodes "hide the ball." I like it when I am learning information as the parties involved are learning it. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Hava

[cooksdelight]

6 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

It also seemed like she was locked in her office and he pried the door open to get in.

She wasn’t in her office yet. That’s why he broke in. Then, she shows up and he hits her in the head, drags her body down the hall, etc.

[iMonrey]

I would have liked to hear if this guy had a history of violence. Beating someone to death is a pretty strong reaction - I'm assuming he was breaking into her office or had already gained entry when she showed up and caught him by surprise, then he just sort of panicked and hit her over the head or whatever.

Quote

One thing I wondered about was why the victim was working on payroll at such odd hours. Did she have other supervisory duties in the late night shift? I don’t know anything about this company but most payroll people I have known work 9-5 type hours.

Warehouse jobs often start at the crack of dawn, even if you're in an administrative position. I worked for a company that had a warehouse and I had to start at 7:30 am (ugh) and the people in the warehouse were there earlier than that.

Quote

BUT...get ready for this...i cannot stand Keith Morrison's melodramatic storytelling and rambling of adjectives describing either the victim or the scenery. It drives me crazy and there's been times that I WON'T watch an episode just because it's KM.

Yeah, I don't hate him but I find his melodramatic narration laughably absurd. The interview portions aren't bad but the voice-over narration? "But was there more to the story???? Ohhhhh, yeeeeeeeeessssss!"

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, I don't hate him but I find his melodramatic narration laughably absurd. The interview portions aren't bad but the voice-over narration? "But was there more to the story???? Ohhhhh, yeeeeeeeeessssss!"

That’s why I love him! I still quote the one episode that took place in Long Beach and in the intro describing the town he states “and there’s a very...very...very....Long Beach,” and laugh every time I do.

[Whimsy]

On 6/29/2019 at 12:42 AM, Blissfool said:

I like Andrea and Josh. They don't bother me at all. BUT...get ready for this...i cannot stand Keith Morrison's melodramatic storytelling and rambling of adjectives describing either the victim or the scenery. It drives me crazy and there's been times that I WON'T watch an episode just because it's KM. 

Phew...feels good to get that off my chest. I know so many people love him.

A male coworker of mine has vocal fry and when I brought it up to a couple of my work bff's they had no idea what I was talking about and thought I made up the term.

I feel the same way. I avoided Dateline for years because of KM. then, when I did start to watch, I’d delete episodes that featured him. Now I jus grit my teeth and bare it. 

16 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

One thing I wondered about was why the victim was working on payroll at such odd hours. Did she have other supervisory duties in the late night shift? I don’t know anything about this company but most payroll people I have known work 9-5 type hours. 

I thought this odd too. Even though there were a few explanations, still seems weird to me. If she just had come in later this all would’ve been avoided 😢

[JudyObscure]

In the intro to the episode when Josh is talking about why they call it early shift (it's still dark out) I thought he implied that the victim was on that shift and started at six every day.

 The time cards alone make me about 90% positive Dooley did it.  They show two big things about him; he was a lying cheat and he was very stupid. Just like most of our murderers.  Both times the defense asks who would kill over time cards and I answer, the same guy who would double dip that way and expect to get away with it?  Then add the changing stories, the leaving and coming right back, the screwdriver, and now every bit of reasonable doubt is gone. 

[Dr.OO7]

I remember the Unsolved Mysteries episode about Bonnie Haim and how infuriated I was that her own parents thought she'd abandoned her husband and son. And to to think that her mother STILL thinks that he's innocent even with her remains being found in the backyard. What a moron.

I've watched true crime shows for years and the level of denial that people engage in is stunning, but it's usually the loved ones of the criminals who insist on their innocence despite all evidence to the contrary, not those of the victims.

[Ohmo]

15 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

It also seemed like she was locked in her office and he pried the door open to get in.

I didn't look at it that way.  I think the CARDS were in her office, but she was just coming in to work.  I think he was after the cards, but she wasn't in the office.

As to the hours, my dad used to work in corporate finance.  In the early days of his career, he was directly responsible for payroll.  He used to go in to work on the weekends because it was quieter, and he could get more done without interruption.  Maybe Michele liked early morning for a similar reason.

[cooksdelight]

Unless I’m getting my murders mixed up, wasn’t Michelle up early so she could go workout or do her yoga or something first? I’ve had jobs at ad agencies (graphic designer) where we’d sometimes pull an all-nighter and not leave to go home until 4 or 5 in the morning. Very unpredictable hours.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

to the hours, my dad used to work in corporate finance.  In the early days of his career, he was directly responsible for payroll.  He used to go in to work on the weekends because it was quieter, and he could get more done without interruption.  Maybe Michele liked early morning for a similar reason.

Yeah every payroll person I have ever known tries to come in early, stay late or work at home when they are actually processing payroll because it’s a ton of checking small details and it sucks to get interrupted by people in the office.

[Angeltoes]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Warehouse jobs often start at the crack of dawn, even if you're in an administrative position.

I have a warehouse job and we're on the clock at 5:00 am and get off at 2:00.  I get up at 3:30 am...you get used to it.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Unless I’m getting my murders mixed up, wasn’t Michelle up early so she could go workout or do her yoga or something first?

I don't remember any yoga, even from the initial episode.  Maybe she did yoga at home before she went to work?

Another thing I thought about.  I had a summer job during college where I had to clock in and out using a time card, and the guy who dealt with them was absolutely serious about them, so I could see Michelle keeping them under lock and key.  It could also explain (to me) why Dooley might have killed Michelle, either in the moment or as a plan.  If he were double-dipping, I bet that would have been a fireable offense, and he and his wife did not seem exactly flush, if you know what I mean.  My job was just a summer job in college, but we were sternly warned not to mess with our time cards.

[ButterQueen]

On 6/29/2019 at 12:42 AM, Blissfool said:

A male coworker of mine has vocal fry and when I brought it up to a couple of my work bff's they had no idea what I was talking about and thought I made up the term.

I don’t know what vocal fry is either, but if Bradley Cooper uses it, it’s ok by me.  😋

Edited July 1, 2019 by ButterQueen

[ButterQueen]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:52 AM, biakbiak said:

That’s why I love him! I still quote the one episode that took place in Long Beach and in the intro describing the town he states “and there’s a very...very...very....Long Beach,” and laugh every time I do.

I keep a lot of Dateline narrated by Keith on my DVR.  I love listening to old cases narrated by him.  

One of my fave quotes is from the case where Scott Mayfield had Dawn Lavendar kill his wife, Teresa.  

Keith:  “oh where have you gone Andy Griffith, Mayberry has apparently up and left.

I just love Keith.  I also love that he is Matthew Perry’s stepdad.

I read on FB where the fans at Crime Con went crazy when the Dateline narrators appeared.

[jabinlbc]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 8:52 AM, biakbiak said:

That’s why I love him! I still quote the one episode that took place in Long Beach and in the intro describing the town he states “and there’s a very...very...very....Long Beach,” and laugh every time I do.

Yay Long Beach! 

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I just love Keith.  I also love that he is Matthew Perry’s stepdad.

I don't dislike Keith.  He's fine.  I have no issues with him whatsoever, but I do find the fervor with which he's adored to be puzzling.  Like people wanting Kieth to do this episode or that one.  It really doesn't matter that much to me.  I enjoy all of the narrators, and am most happy when we actually get a new episode of Dateline or an update.

[ButterQueen]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I don't dislike Keith.  He's fine.  I have no issues with him whatsoever, but I do find the fervor with which he's adored to be puzzling.  Like people wanting Kieth to do this episode or that one.  It really doesn't matter that much to me.  I enjoy all of the narrators, and am most happy when we actually get a new episode of Dateline or an update.

Oh, I enjoy them all...but, Keith is my favorite and I usually do not delete his episodes.  My husband loves him too.

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I don't dislike Keith.  He's fine.  I have no issues with him whatsoever, but I do find the fervor with which he's adored to be puzzling.  Like people wanting Kieth to do this episode or that one.  It really doesn't matter that much to me.  I enjoy all of the narrators, and am most happy when we actually get a new episode of Dateline or an update.

For me who does the story completely changes the way the story is told. Yes, they have producers and other people who helped to create the episode but who is reporting on the episode also has a large part in shaping the stories which is why I prefer Keith and Josh because of what they bring to the story which is more than just narration.

[cooksdelight]

Two articles regarding tonight’s episode. Don’t open or read until the show is over.

Spoiler

https://www.wfae.org/post/journalist-discusses-questions-death-investigation-high-point-university-student#stream/0

https://www.wfdd.org/story/appeals-court-clears-fraternity-high-point-university-students-death

[cooksdelight]

That episode pissed me off to no end.

[biakbiak]

If that Michael kid was in a movie people would say he was too much of a stereotypical frat boy douche to be believable. 

[TVbitch]

Jesus God, that university looked like a luxury resort!

I will never understand what frat boys get out of beating, humiliating, and paddling each other. Why is that entertaining or funny? 

Okay people, are you sitting down? Let it not be said that I do not give credit where it is due. Andrea Canning (even though she was wearing way too much lip gloss) did not really bug me during this episode. And further, the way she went in on that police guy, making him swallow and squirm in that last interview, actually made me go "Yes, Andrea! Good job!" ...Somewhere pigs are flying! :) 

[iMonrey]

"The Crossing:" The thing that struck me as odd was the victim's sister. She said a friend called her and said "Something bad has happened." And the first thing she asked was "Did my mother die," followed by "Did my brother die?" I don't know about you, but if someone called me and said "something bad has happened," the first thing out of my mouth wouldn't be is my mother or brother dead. That suggests to me she considered both to be on the brink.

They said Robert had some drug problems in high school and that sort of got glossed over. I definitely think there was some hazing going on but overall I'm inclined to believe it was just an accidental drug overdose combined with alcohol. I think it's possible the show was trying to make too much of the bruises.

Make no mistake, I don't excuse the University or the frat system as a whole. I'm equally inclined to believe there was some sort of cover-up. I just think the drugs and booze were downplayed and the mother just couldn't accept what happened to her son.

Quote

I don’t know what vocal fry is either, but if Bradley Cooper uses it, it’s ok by me.  😋

 What's typically called "vocal fry" (particularly in women) refers to someone's voice dropping into a croak, as if they simply are not putting enough energy or force into their voice and the voice drops into the throat and sort of croaks out. The victim's sister had a bad case of it in this episode.

[ButterQueen]

17 hours ago, biakbiak said:

For me who does the story completely changes the way the story is told. Yes, they have producers and other people who helped to create the episode but who is reporting on the episode also has a large part in shaping the stories which is why I prefer Keith and Josh because of what they bring to the story which is more than just narration.

Yes!!

[Fable]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

They said Robert had some drug problems in high school and that sort of got glossed over. I definitely think there was some hazing going on but overall I'm inclined to believe it was just an accidental drug overdose combined with alcohol. I think it's possible the show was trying to make too much of the bruises.

Make no mistake, I don't excuse the University or the frat system as a whole. I'm equally inclined to believe there was some sort of cover-up. I just think the drugs and booze were downplayed and the mother just couldn't accept what happened to her son.

Agreed!  I thought somethings were definitely suspicious, but I agree with the detective who felt that the bruising didn't look fresh.  I'm no doctor, but I do tend to bruise easily, and those bruises looked like they were in the healing stages.  

[iMonrey]

And they asked his friends who saw him the night before he died whether they noticed any bruises on him, but none of the bruises would have been visible, except for one near his neck. And that was something they might not have noticed. 

[TVbitch]

But what about the fact that several witnesses saw him earlier and said there were no bruises and that even the defenses autopsy expert said there was not enough drugs/alcohol in the system to cause death. 

Cross post! There were bruises around his eye and temple, too. 

[biakbiak]

21 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

that even the defenses autopsy expert said there was not enough drugs/alcohol in the system to cause death. 

Yeah that gave me pause when the Fraternity’s pathologist also reached the same conclusion. 

[sainte-chapelle]

I am on the fence about this one. Deleting text messages is suspicious....especially during the service. Who does that? Those boys are obviously morally bankrupt. I think that Robert was no Saint and likely his death was accidental, the family just doesn't want to accept it.

[Whimsy]

On 6/30/2019 at 5:47 PM, biakbiak said:

Yeah every payroll person I have ever known tries to come in early, stay late or work at home when they are actually processing payroll because it’s a ton of checking small details and it sucks to get interrupted by people in the office.

I worked in HR and did payroll with four other people. We NEVER worked early, late or weekends. 

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I worked in HR and did payroll with four other people. We NEVER worked early, late or weekends. 

Different folks I guess, I also work in HR and it’s been a thing with the payroll people I have worked with for over 20 years.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

I worked in HR and did payroll with four other people. We NEVER worked early, late or weekends. 

And I've NEVER heard of such a thing in over a half century of workplace experience. Lucky you - you must've had a dream job (or worked for the Federal Government, heh!).  ;~)

[valdawn]

On 6/30/2019 at 2:47 PM, biakbiak said:

Yeah every payroll person I have ever known tries to come in early, stay late or work at home when they are actually processing payroll because it’s a ton of checking small details and it sucks to get interrupted by people in the office.

If I recall correctly from another episode or show about this, it was the Memorial Day  holiday and she was coming in just to get it done early and leave I could be wrong but I seem to remember that. 

[Melina22]

On 7/1/2019 at 1:05 PM, ButterQueen said:

read on FB where the fans at Crime Con went crazy when the Dateline narrators appeared.

There's a Crime Con?? It sounds like something I'd totally want to go to, but then be too embarrassed to attend. 😁

[JudyObscure]

I'll go with you, Melina!

I worked payroll one day, many years ago, because the regular payroll person was off sick and my head still hurts. 

[Whimsy]

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Different folks I guess, I also work in HR and it’s been a thing with the payroll people I have worked with for over 20 years.

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

And I've NEVER heard of such a thing in over a half century of workplace experience. Lucky you - you must've had a dream job (or worked for the Federal Government, heh!).  ;~)

I guess we were lucky.  We had over 400 employees, had to enter each person's weekly time individually using faxed timesheets.  These employees worked 24/7 with lots of overtime, etc.  We did work for the state, but I really don't think that had anything to do with it.  We just were able to get it done during normal work hours, I guess.  I was there for 16 years, but now work elsewhere doing different type of work.

 But, despite all of that, I wasn't really thinking her work hours as suspicious or anything. I was just surprised by the discussion of coming in early and staying late to do payroll.  

I've noticed that all of the shows I watch (mostly just Dateline & 20/20) are all cases I've seen before with very little new information.  I can't believe that there has been no new interesting cases of murder!  I would like to see something new. 

[walnutqueen]

13 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I can't believe that there has been no new interesting cases of murder!  I would like to see something new. 

Wouldn't we all.  There's a murder every few minutes (seconds?) in this country, and no end to how many TeeVee shows cover them, but the same stories get told over and over again.  Too lazy to find people related to cases that are also willing to appear on camera, I'm guessing.

[cooksdelight]

30 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

46 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I can't believe that there has been no new interesting cases of murder!  I would like to see something new. 

That’s why I google the case when it’s on, to see if anything new has been released that wasn’t available at the time of filming.