S43.E13: Snap Some Necks and Cash Some Checks

[bankerchick]

I'm sorry I asked.  It looks like sour grapes from someone whose only claim to fame is, 'it's a fucking stick!' 

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I mostly don't understand the support for Cassidy I keep seeing. I don't think she was so clearly the frontrunner that it could only be bitterness from the jury that denied her the win.

What exactly did she do all season that meant she was "predestined" to win?

I don't really love Gabler or anything but to me, the final three were basically at the same level of "it's fine, I guess." Personally, I likely would have thrown a vote Owen's way because he was such an underdog all season.

But nothing that Cassidy did really stuck out as to why it was an overwhelming convincing argument that she should win. So I think it is entirely possible that the jury was persuaded by Gabler's argument that he was playing a strategic game by going underground and that he made a move or two when necessary. I don't think that the jury needed to be bitter towards Cassidy to be persuaded by that argument. (FWIW, I likely would have felt the same way if she had persuaded them to vote for her - they both had reasonable arguments, but this jury was more persuaded by Gabler).

This.  I really don’t get the ‘Cassidy was robbed’ because what did she really do in the game?  She herself said she hasn’t made any flashy moves or have anything on her resume.  Were people upset she lost because she was the last women standing?  And I’m not saying that of anyone here, but elsewhere it’s like she played the best game ever to be played.  And for all the talk of the women getting picked off this season, most of them women contributed to those votes to vote another female off.  I just think that’s the issue when you have a 3 tribe season.  So few members and no where for anyone to hide or not enough people to make a bold move.  
 

Now, I fully believe the jury was bitter and was going to award Gabler before they even came in.  Karla had the ‘I’m taking my ball and going home unless you let me get my way’ mentality.  Gabler clearly had more of an alliance with Cody and Jesse than we saw.  And we know Ryan didn’t like Cassidy, so there’s half the jury right there.  My biggest surprise was Noelle, as I mentioned, and I wasn’t really sure what way Sami or Jeanine would swing, but they were Baka members from the beginning.  I think Jeanine might have been more betrayed by Owen since she and Ellie thought he was on their side.  I think all of the final 3 was pretty equal.  I just don’t think anyone was truly robbed.  It truly was a mediocre season with a forgettable final 3.  There were some highs and different points where I thought the tide was turning.  Gabler isn’t the worst outcome I guess.  I liked Owen since he was truly an underdog.  

Edited December 15, 2022 by LadyChatts

[eleanorofaquitaine]

IMO, the only one who was actually bitter towards Cassidy was Karla. I don't think that Karla's bitterness was warranted - it reminded me of the high school Queen Bee who is jealous that one of her friends is suddenly more popular than she is. But I also don't think Karla's bitterness actually swayed the other jury members. (As you mention, @LadyChatts, for instance, I think that Cody and Jesse basically voted for Gabler because of their relationship with him, as opposed to being against Cassidy).

I was also surprised by Noelle - I thought she might vote for Owen. (Full disclosure, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, I know Noelle IRL, though I haven't talked to her directly during the show). She may have just been persuaded by Gabler's arguments.

Edited December 15, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[fishcakes]

Gabler was not hiding in plain sight because no one was ever looking at him. He didn't control any strategy or drive any votes; he was a useful idiot to whichever alliance he barnacled himself to in any given week and because he was such a non-entity, he made it to the end. The goat finally won the game. It had to happen someday.

Owen was not an underdog. He was just a bad player with an anger management problem.

Cassidy wasn't the greatest player ever, but she was better than Gabler and Owen. She was targeted repeatedly by different players (Ryan, Noelle, Cody, Jesse, Karla) and managed to turn the tables on them. I do think her loss was a result of some stealth bitterness on the part of the jury, despite what an unseemly lovefest the reunion was, though maybe it seemed sappier because of all the overwrought musical cues.

I really like Jesse and wanted him to win, but the editors didn't do him any favors by including so many of his tearful confessionals about his family. I found it to be genuine on his part, but if he gets a return invite, which seems likely, he's going to be targeted by other players who think he's going to play the sympathy card and win. Anyway, he was my favorite in this very lackluster season, and although I went back and forth on Cody, I ended up liking him a lot too, and loved how he jokingly thanked Jesse for bringing him along to the six.

7 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Ok, thanks. My twitter ability is limited and my relationship with Eliza is complicated 😆 so I just didn't want to assume she was correct in what she was saying. But it looks like she was, so f*** Gabler.

It looks like the stuff she said in her original tweet is not exactly correct. The thing about the charity being a PAC is false, and she has admits she didn't see the tweets she says Gabler liked but that she "heard it" from someone she trusts. That said, although the charity is ostensibly a real charity, it doesn't have a rating by Charity Navigator or Charity Watch, which is unusual since it's been operating since 2009, and it's been reported it has something of a shady history in regards to how it solicits money and where the money goes. I also looked at Gabler's timeline and many of the tweets he likes are pretty reprehensible. So my feeling is that I wish both Eliza and Gabler would stop inflicting their terrible opinions and themselves on the public forever.

Edited December 15, 2022 by fishcakes

[Guest]

As far as those disappointed that Cassidy lost, I certainly won't try to speak for anyone else, but for me it's not that she lost or that she absolutely deserved the win. The jury voted for Gabler, and that's that.

For me, it's how Cassidy was minimized by both the show and the jury. She was in the majority and on the right side of every vote - that's happened before and highlighted by the show as positive gameplay, but suddenly, according to Noelle, it's something to sneer at and evidence that Cassidy wasn't trying very hard (in Noelle's pre-TC comments about rooting for the underdog). Jesse was also in the majority and on the right side of every vote, and I guarantee that he would have used the same argument had he gotten to the final 3 and it would have been treated by the show and the jury as a feather in his cap. (Obviously he would also have mentioned his idol plays, but Cassidy didn't need idols to get as far as she did 😛)

There's also the afore-mentioned questioning of Cassidy's decision not to give up immunity, and the efforts by the dudebros to undercut her role in voting decisions.

And even here, people were going to the tired "there's a Cassidy? I've never seen her before!" well, long after she was featured in multiple episodes as both a target and a threat. And I've seen several people here note (sometimes gleefully) her shock at Gabler winning, but failing to notice or at least mention that Owen was just as shocked as she was. (And let's not forget the gross "if Cassidy had done more stretching on the beach, she would have been featured more" comment from an episode or two ago)

To me, it adds up to a bias against Cassidy, and players like her - and yes, I'm talking about young women - that shows up many times on this show and many others. I know others won't agree, and that's fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just explaining my frustration with how the season played out and was edited.

Edited December 15, 2022 by tracyscott76
Adding more ranting lol

[Kenzie]

When the first vote for Gabler was read I thought, "Oh, that's nice, someone is throwing him a vote so he won't feel too embarrassed by his lackluster play." Never imagined he would win.

On the upside to this season ending, I never have to look at Karla's gross nose ring again.

[seacliffsal]

40 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

And I've seen several people here note (sometimes gleefully) her shock at Gabler winning, but failing to notice or at least mention that Owen was just as shocked as she was. 

I did think about referencing Owen's shock at Gabler's win, but I didn't because Owen often seemed shocked at how tribal voting went so it didn't really seem out of the ordinary to me.

[Carey]

To be brief and to be honest,  I could not care less about what Gabe said.  Same goes for Eliza's reaction/opinion.  To be fair, I didn't read any of it, nor do I plan to.  From there, I might off to hook toward forming an opinion on the matter one way, the other, or none at all.

My focus was on Gabe the character & what he did on the show, specifically on the finale.  To a lesser extent, the entire season; whatever Mike does or says off the show & on his time has no bearing on how I saw him as a contestant and his run toward the title.  I just do not care.

Typically one's behavior factoring in does have bearing on whether you want them to win or not.  However, for me, I didn't have a problem with the win since he apparently did whatever it took.  The opposite can be said about Natalie in Season 19.  I wasn't a big fan of her game at all, yet having learned about her in real life, at the time there was nothing to hate her for.

On the other hand, if Mike had mentioned questionable stuff on the show, that may be a different story.  The fact is this cast was sorta boring and not something trending toward excitement.  So not memorable.  I hardly think I'd care enough to comment on whatever Orlins said since the FTC voted on his gameplay (whatever that was overall) and not Twitter commentary.  Though I might agree/disagree if Gabler had an opinion on the best pasta in his thread.

Never commented on Karla's fall.  It was really just unfortunate, that's about it.  I thought she was okay, but I think I definitely don't hate her for a character turn.  It's Survivor.  It's not supposed to be easy to get the job done

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, North of Eden said:

her reaction that her idol proved to be  such a pivotal part of the game was priceless

Did she really sit there with her mouth gaping for 20 minutes or did the editors just keep showing the same shot of her over and over again?

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

Can we please get the entire pre-merge boots for the aftershow with everyone else? I hope there is a future season where they can do that.

Aren't they still being sequestered close by? I don't think it is as if they would have needed to be all flown back from the US.

[eel21788]

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm seeing a lot of comments on Twitter saying that the F4 fire making needs to go. . . I've always hated that addition to the show and never understood the point.  

15 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

This show is based on votes, so that is how it should be all game. . .  it would be nice if the fire-making challenge would go away.

It would be okay as a final challenge not done at tribal council in lieu of voting.

All four on the beach would need to build a fire. One would win immunity, and all the others would be subject to a regular vote-out at tribal council.

[Carey]

Even though I'm okay with the F4 fire making tiebreaker, I do have to respect the fact that the show is based on votes.  However, the show is called Survivor.  If I'm in the middle nowhere, I would have to think of ways to survive to the next day.  I'm pretty certain that being able to start/make a fire is more valuable than a vote from some other human being to me.

Going back to what they used to do is stupid, IMO.  Unless one of two things play out: the immunity idol is valid at the Final 4 OR they go back to a Final 2 format.  Having 2 people who didn't win immunity slide into FTC at the expense of the 4th place finisher is so weak.  They pretty much don't even have to compete in the Final IC.  The winner of the Final IC should have more power than whatever has been the case since they made the change 16 years ago

[LadyChatts]

26 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

Aren't they still being sequestered close by? I don't think it is as if they would have needed to be all flown back from the US.

From what I've heard, pre-jury boots are flown back to the U.S. once the jury phase starts.  They used to go on a trip and then everyone came back at the same time to avoid spoilers of who got voted out early on.  But with COVID, the pre-jury comes back as soon as the last boot is sent packing before the jury phase begins.

After reading some exit interviews, I really wish we had gotten a reunion show months after the fact.  Owen wasn't happy about having to celebrate right after losing and wanted time to decompress.  Cassidy drank her sorrows away at losing and then had a panic attack later on.  I would have liked to have seen the jury explain their vote more after seeing everything back.  I really wish Probst could have pressed more about why the jury thought Cassidy should have given up immunity to make fire in their eyes. 

I mean, that was all an excuse by the jury, but I would have liked to hear them have to answer to that.  Because really, that was Cassidy's move.  We saw her debate between Gabler and Owen about fire, and she specifically went to Gabler to ask him about making fire.  Gabler got lucky that Jesse was so bad at his fire making abilities.  I don't see why he got so much credit for beating Jesse and taking a threat out of the game, when it was really Cassidy that put them there, and then he just got lucky.

Edited December 15, 2022 by LadyChatts

[KeithJ]

4 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

From what I've heard, pre-jury boots are flown back to the U.S. once the jury phase starts.  They used to go on a trip and then everyone came back at the same time to avoid spoilers of who got voted out early on.  But with COVID, the pre-jury comes back.

After reading some exit interviews, I really wish we had gotten a reunion show months after the fact.  Owen was down on having to celebrate right after losing and wanted time to decompress.  Cassidy drank her sorrows away at losing and then had a panic attack later on.  I would have liked to have seen the jury explain their vote more after seeing everything back.  I really wish Probst could have pressed more about why the jury thought Cassidy should have given up immunity to make fire in their eyes. 

I mean, that was all an excuse by the jury, but I would have liked to hear them have to answer to that.  Because really, that was Cassidy's move.  We saw her debate between Gabler and Owen about fire, and she specifically went to Gabler to ask him about making fire.  Gabler got lucky that Jesse was so bad at his fire making abilities.  I don't see why he got so much credit for beating Jesse and taking a threat out of the game, when it was really Cassidy that put them there, and then he just got lucky.

I don't think you can say he got lucky.  Didn't Probst say it was the fastest anyone had ever made fire in the final four?

[Carey]

About that (giving up immunity), as mentioned, I would never, ever give up immunity, period.  Definitely not at F4.  Unless I had an idol (the one Yul had).  Reichenbach got ripped for doing it (though not for a Fire maker) and yet it was enough to surpass a blunder that took place the season before.

Yeah I might want to take out someone at that tiebreaker, but I'd take my chances by losing the Final IC on purposes.  I'd have to hope the winner didn't pick me to go to the final, but that's how I'd handle it.  If I was on that jury, I'd still vote for Gabe, but I wouldn't have an issue with Cassidy keeping the necklace.  She'd have been on the jury if it didn't work out.

Yeah, a real reunion would've been great.  Seeing the pre-jury people would've been okay.  They still played the game.  Can't fault staff for doing things this way right now, but a reunion show right off the bat isn't ideal.  You need time to recover, heal, and regroup

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I mostly don't understand the support for Cassidy I keep seeing. I don't think she was so clearly the frontrunner that it could only be bitterness from the jury that denied her the win.

What exactly did she do all season that meant she was "predestined" to win?

There was a spoiler out there that she was going to win, apparently, though I didn't see it or hear it until after the show aired.

From the edit, I could not see a single indication she was doing anything, had any influence, or any real likelihood to win, but assumed I must be missing something, as so many here were and still are adamant she shoulda won.

I went into the final tribal, after the soundtrack played some sort of swelling America's hero music under her final confessional, thinking they must be right. Realistically, she had the odds stacked in her favour, if she was working so well within the game pre- and post-merge, given three of the jury were original Coco. Both she and Owen had each won three individual immunities. Gabler, the fire-making.

Until she claimed her big move and it was pointed out it wasn't actually her move, and she capitulated and showed a lack of awareness of what had gone down - and I do remember that edit and how it was made clear she just thought at the time she was the one with the ideas, and they were kind of let her think that and laughing at her - her tribal was confident. That weakened anything further she had to say.

Gabler played a clever game, "hiding in plain sight", endeared himself to Cody and Jesse, didn't piss anyone greatly off, and span an amusing tale that clearly explained what his game was all season. He didn't even have to make anything up, and showed self-awareness of his actions and intentions throughout the game, which the people's princess didn't.

I loved Owen, and had hoped he'd do better at his ftc, but Gabler won that fair and square.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Karla was bitter, poisoned the jury, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.  My only wonder is what happened with James.  Good for him.

I am a full on Karla hater as of last night.  I found her to be despicable especially in her dealings with Cass and she annoyed me beyond belief.  Her facial expressions, her arrogance, her seeming annoyance at other people for playing the game and not handing her the win, I could not take it.

Cass deserved the votes, maybe not every single one, but a majority.  I'm floored.  

This season was boring (and misogynist), the winner was stupid.  The highlight was Cody.  

I'm happy to see the positive reception of Owen, I really like him as a person.  

I will never accept nor like the firemaking challenge.  If they get rid of it to please the Jesse fans, all the better.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Final thought: Gabler's only 51?  I thought he was a decade older.

Right! I looked like Cassidy and Owen did when Gabler won when Gabler announced her was only 51 lol.

And about Cassidy and Owen being shocked, they were either very confident in themselves (which I think Cassidy was) or SUPER bad at reading a room (hi Owen lol) because it was blatantly obvious the jury was obsessed with Gabler. They were smiling and laughing at everything he said and making sure to play up any tiny thing he did while cutting down what Cassidy did.

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I found [Karla] to be despicable especially in her dealings with Cass and she annoyed me beyond belief.  Her facial expressions, her arrogance, her seeming annoyance at other people for playing the game and not handing her the win, I could not take it.

She turned out to be such an asshole. Jesse also was, albeit more stealthily. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I really think people are making a little too much about the question related to Cassidy not giving up immunity to make fire. Yes, Noelle asked the question but I don’t think that was really the decider. (To be fair to Cassidy, I thought her answer was appropriate and honestly was her strongest answer during the whole tribal council. It's silly to expect her to give up her immunity and they all knew that).

At the end of the day, I just think that Cassidy was not as well-liked as Gabler. And she didn't give them enough of a reason because of her game-play to overcome that. And that's part of the game, too.

Re the vote on removing Ryan - I mean, it's not like Cody and Jesse were lying about how that happened. Maybe their intent was to undermine her argument but it was also accurate, IIRC.

I am not anti-Cassidy or anything, I just don't think there was a conspiracy against her. I think that there arguments for and against all three of the finalists - all three were justified in either winning or losing. 

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, Kenzie said:

When the first vote for Gabler was read I thought, "Oh, that's nice, someone is throwing him a vote so he won't feel too embarrassed by his lackluster play." Never imagined he would win.

On the upside to this season ending, I never have to look at Karla's gross nose ring again.

That nose ring is totally disgusting, and in shocked with all the physicality of survivor she took that chance to wear it . I hate them to begin with.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I really wish Probst could have pressed more about why the jury thought Cassidy should have given up immunity to make fire in their eyes. 

I mean, that was all an excuse by the jury, but I would have liked to hear them have to answer to that.  Because really, that was Cassidy's move.  We saw her debate between Gabler and Owen about fire, and she specifically went to Gabler to ask him about making fire.  Gabler got lucky that Jesse was so bad at his fire making abilities.  I don't see why he got so much credit for beating Jesse and taking a threat out of the game, when it was really Cassidy that put them there, and then he just got lucky.

I think they were trying to get her to say something to justify them giving them her vote, or in this case not.

These were three fairly evenly placed finalists, with nothing splashy on their resumes to flaunt. Cassidy had her three individual imunities, and Owen had his three individual immunities.

If Cassidy had taken on Jesse at fire, that would have been splashy. But she rather sensibly took the safe route there.

Gabler pitched to do the fire, he was mad keen to go to fire. As was Owen. She chose Gabler, as he seemed better at it. He didn't just get lucky, he had superior fire building skills!

And if Cassidy is going to get the credit for putting Gabler there, then she made a bad move.  Owen would also probably have beat Jesse, and it wouldn't have been enough to sway the jury for him, whereas it was another feather in Gabler's cap to be spun into his story of steering his way to the end. She underestimated Gabler. 

3 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Did she really sit there with her mouth gaping for 20 minutes or did the editors just keep showing the same shot of her over and over again?

She gaoed, and then when the next bit of info was revealed re-gaped, and then so on, re-gaped. It was so funny. I really enjoyed her deeply empathic eyes during the reunion as Jesse and Gabler and others spoke.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, violet and green said:

These were three fairly evenly placed finalists, with nothing splashy on their resumes to flaunt.

This, plus the fact that the edit made this a very surprising/unconventional F3, is why I really liked this FTC. I’ve even decided to still enjoy Gabler winning even now knowing he’s an Elon Musk fanboy lol.

I also really appreciated that he didn’t tell the jury he was giving the money to charity. Although, I wonder if he would have if they hadn’t have been so obviously in his corner already.

[nlkm9]

19 hours ago, North of Eden said:

OMG that was great! Last week I was hoping for that particular final three. I expected it to be more competitive and not the turkey shoot that it turned out to be but if it had been Jesse or Karla there would have been no question who the winner was...this way I had no idea right up to the reading of the votes.

Cass seemed shocked, I say shocked that she didn't win. She was right to thank James for her sole vote so she could at least get the second place money. I wonder...if Gabler had gotten all the votes would Cass and Owen  have to split the second place money or get nothing at all?

Probably in the minority here but I was tired of Jesse weeks ago so much of the three hours seemed like a Jesse-fest so I'm really glad he didn't make it. He seemed to know he couldn't build a fire to save his  life (or his game).

Jeff I think the question everyone wasn't asking if is Gabler rich but instead did he discuss the giving away all his money if he won before he left for Fiji. If not his next stop could be divorce court. Jesse's posture when Gabler was making his announcement made me think he got an extra helping of devestation for the money he wanted to much to be won by someone else and then given away!

Jeanine was always my favorite this year. I LOVED how empathetic she was especially in the reunion and her reaction that her idol proved to be  such a pivotal part of the game was priceless plus I love a woman in boots and she rocked hers!

Karla cleaned up well at final tribal.

So I guess its official the days of the Hollywood extravaganza reunion with the whole cast are gone for good...at least until they aren't. Other than not seeing the entire cast I guess in some ways its better....at least no Sia or getting random kids in the audience to predict the winner.

I knew Probst wouldn't let Nicole's come back go...but that's okay...it was probably one of the most memorable moments in recent years.

So owen gets no $ ? I thought if you placed you automatically got $ .  

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

So owen gets no $ ? I thought if you placed you automatically got $ .  

Unless the rules have changed, everyone gets money with successively lower dollar amounts going from first place down to first out. If I remember right, first out was $1500.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

So owen gets no $ ? I thought if you placed you automatically got $ .  

I think 3rd place is $85,000.  I might be wrong or that might have changed, but he gets something.

[eel21788]

15 hours ago, LizBug said:

Surprised too by Jesse ... his backstory and desperation for the money to "save his family" led me to believe that he was still one step above being on the streets.  And the guy just got his PhD!   

All the whining about wanting to set a good example for his family and his adoring public! All he was actually showing them was how to be a sore loser.

[eel21788]

49 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I think 3rd place is $85,000.  I might be wrong or that might have changed, but he gets something.

Now that the season is shorter, should they get paid more or less for how many days they survive?

On one hand, production is paying a lot less money for their care and feeding, so they could pass that savings on to the contestants in the form of an increased per diem rate.

On the other hand, if the reimbursement is supposed to be a per diem stipend, then being on camera fewer days should result less money.

Edited December 16, 2022 by eel21788

[Whimsy]

Some posts have been removed due to being off-topic and uncivil. Any further discussion of Eliza and Gabler’s tweets will be reomvied from this thread.  

[CloudySky]

I think players like Cassidy and especially Owen would have a better shot in a 39 day season because there's more time to build a resume. By the time they finally turn the game around and are building momentum, it's over already and the controlling players they outplayed are still (subtly) bitter because not enough time has passed to process and get over the loss.

I think most were leaning towards Gabler because of social relationships and he was very convincing in FTC and probably swayed a few others. Cassidy just didn't do very well explaining her game and had the jury against her so it was a steeper hill to climb.

I think she should have put more emphasis on how although she started on the majority alliance, once she became a target she was able to form  her own alliance where she was the 'leader' (like dictating the Karla vote) to get her to the end despite being targeted by her former alliance. She survived by trusting the right people (unlike Cody and Jeannine), despite being a physical threat (unlike Ryan), won immunity when it counted to keep herself in the game (unlike Jesse and Karla), was a trustworthy ally (unlike Sammy) and managed her threat level (unlike Noelle and others) and made the right alliance to get her to the end (unlike everyone).

I'm sorry, but Jesse is a shit player if he didn't have a plan to get to the end. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears that he only started practicing fire on the last day. Knowing his threat level he should have been practicing every day. He knew he wouldn't get there by winning immunity and should have made the alliances to get him there. If Cody was the only one who would take him, he should have kept him in the game. Everyone can make flashy moves but you have to get to the end. So even Gabler was a better player than Jesse.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

She turned out to be such an asshole. 

Just like Nicole on BB All-Stars a year or two back, Karla thinks any backstabbing SHE does is just part of the game, but strategic play by anyone else is an unforgivable crime to be resolutely punished by any means necessary.

13 hours ago, violet and green said:

She gaped, and then when the next bit of info was revealed re-gaped, and then so on, re-gaped.

Pet Peeve Time: I cannot STAND it when reality show contestants respond to a surprise announcement with that "Slowly turn your head towards the person saying it while opening your mouth in shock and making your eyes really big" shtick. It's so obviously practiced and never convincing.

On 12/14/2022 at 9:08 PM, LadyChatts said:

Gabler's an okay winner, and I'm really glad he didn't pull the charity card during his jury argument. 

He may not have been able to. Years ago, Probst said there were two things that would get a contestant kicked off the show immediately with total forfeiture of their prize money:

1) A physical confrontation that's not part of a Challenge, or

2) Any discussion of giving up part of one's prize money in exchange for votes or other considerations.

Gabler may have been worried about violating the second one.

[AncientNewbie]

After some time to ponder this one...I'll allow it. There have been seasons and winners that weren't my cup of tea before, ones I thought should have gone another way...but I also have long argued that the winner is the winner, no matter the means that got them there. 

Overall, a decent season. I liked the final challenge this time around, as I'd expected Simmotion and was interested that they changed it up. By the end, I wasn't overly endeared to anyone nor did I actively dislike anyone, which is a weird vibe in a Survivor season. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, CloudySky said:

I'm sorry, but Jesse is a shit player if he didn't have a plan to get to the end. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears that he only started practicing fire on the last day. Knowing his threat level he should have been practicing every day. He knew he wouldn't get there by winning immunity and should have made the alliances to get him there. If Cody was the only one who would take him, he should have kept him in the game. Everyone can make flashy moves but you have to get to the end. So even Gabler was a better player than Jesse.

Seriously this. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, CloudySky said:

I'm sorry, but Jesse is a shit player if he didn't have a plan to get to the end. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears that he only started practicing fire on the last day. Knowing his threat level he should have been practicing every day. He knew he wouldn't get there by winning immunity and should have made the alliances to get him there. If Cody was the only one who would take him, he should have kept him in the game. Everyone can make flashy moves but you have to get to the end. So even Gabler was a better player than Jesse.

I don't think Jesse was a shit player, but he definitely showcased his flaws by the endgame. I think he panicked at the end, which caused him to slip up. He's still a good player, he just made poor choices. And, unfortunately, that led to him losing. He had the right idea, just wrong execution of it. He took risks, they didn't pay off. 

The fire aspect is a moot point, since Gabler won in four minutes. It's not like Gabler won in ten-fifteen minutes and Jesse didn't have a fire; Gabler was just the best at fire out of literally anyone who has made fire for F4. So it's hard to judge Jesse's firemaking skills when it was really about Gabler being a beast at it.

This season has been just so...mediocre. The editing was trash, 90% of the players would have been early boots in past seasons, and the gameplay was just so-so. The only players that I could see return in a future season are Jesse, Cody and Noelle. MAYBE Karla, but that's more due to how people liked her before merge. 

It's not like Gabler's a terrible winner, but the edit didn't do him justice. Ok, so he got a better edit than Cassidy, but he disappeared after the Elie vote-out and basically became a side character. There were a couple of episodes, even, where he didn't even have any important confessionals. They showed why he won, sure, but they never showed how he got there. We were told about a named alliance he was in which we ONLY saw the beginnings of, but we had zero clue it had a name and who else was part of it. His game clearly relied on his social game so why did we never see it after merge started? 

This season was terrible at showing relationship and tribe dynamics. We'd see some and then they got put aside for several episodes. I had zero clue about Owen/Gabler/Cassidy/Jesse, apparently, being a semi-alliance, for example. Jesse/Cody was quite literally the only fleshed out alliance where we knew where they stood the entire time. We were told about Karla/Cassidy but never really shown it. Owen only had Noelle as an ally until the end. Gabler floated between groups but we never saw where his head was at. Maybe he mentioned it at one point but we never saw consistency in his editing after that. 

It's not like Cassidy would have been a better winner, although I do think she still had a shot had she had a better FTC. Owen was likeable but his game was poor and his FTC performance was not great either.

I would have loved to see Jesse win but he DID make some serious mistakes by the end. Same with Karla, though her mistakes started a few episodes prior, and I think she got way too comfortable in her position and let it totally slip away. 

Overall, season was fairly meh. 42 was significantly stronger than this season, and I'm STILL debating whether 41 was better or worse as well. 41 had a more interesting cast, but 43, despite its poor editing, still explained why the winner won better than 41 (though I think 41's editing was STILL slightly better overall).

[ruffy666]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:15 PM, awaken said:

Super disappointed. Had to turn it off when the winner was announced. 

really enjoyed this season, but not the outcome. Lots of memorable and enjoyable contestants, but the one I wanted gone from week 1 won 😩. 

lol i stopped the playback in disgust and told my husband i would never watch another season of survivor ever again (which i'm sure we all know to be false!)  

this has nothing to do with his gameplay, i just found him to be an incredibly off-putting know-it-all blowhard from the very first episode.  -shrug-

[SummerDreams]

I see now why the editing was so messy; not even the producers and the editors have any idea how the heck Gabler won.

I didn't appreciate him revealing he will donate the money AFTER his win; this is an info that should become known to the jury before they vote, or not reveal it at all. If it were me in the jury I'd never vote for a person who would donate the money.

Jeanine's weight had me very worried.

My predictions obviously suck.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

15 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

...not even the producers and the editors have any idea how the heck Gabler won.

The jury disliked Cassidy and Owen: they felt betrayed by Cassidy (no doubt egged on by a spiteful Karla), and saw Owen as a curmudgeon prone to anger outbursts. Gabler was the nice old guy they all liked (or at least didn't actively dislike), and that was enough.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Gabler was not hiding in plain sight because no one was ever looking at him. He didn't control any strategy or drive any votes; he was a useful idiot to whichever alliance he barnacled himself to in any given week and because he was such a non-entity, he made it to the end. The goat finally won the game. It had to happen someday.

Agreed. My impression was that the jury was amped up to hand Jesse the win. You could see it on their faces when he was clearly going to lose fire-making. At that point, the only good will they had towards any of the final three was Gabler. None of the final three "deserved" to win more than the others, in terms of game play, it just came down to which one the jury liked.

Quote

I also really appreciated that he didn’t tell the jury he was giving the money to charity. {snip}

Quote

He may not have been able to. Years ago, Probst said there were two things that would get a contestant kicked off the show immediately with total forfeiture of their prize money:

2) Any discussion of giving up part of one's prize money in exchange for votes or other considerations.

Yes, I have a feeling that Gabler was warned not to use that info as leverage, because at the beginning of the questioning, he made an oblique reference to it and then said they would talk more about it "later."

He apparently already believed he had this in the bag and had earlier stated he wanted to be in the final three with Owen and Cassidy, so he likely knew the jury just liked them the least.

Quote

Owen wasn't happy about having to celebrate right after losing and wanted time to decompress. Cassidy drank her sorrows away at losing and then had a panic attack later on. 

Yikes. That's a good point. Think of how much it would suck, to get NO votes, or just ONE vote, and then have to sit there and "celebrate" your loss. And knowing you are going to be on TV and having to put on a brave face and pretend all is well. 

That's pretty crappy.

[violet and green]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

He apparently already believed he had this in the bag and had earlier stated he wanted to be in the final three with Owen and Cassidy, so he likely knew the jury just liked them the least.

I think it's more he knew he had zero chance of winning if he was in the final three with either Jesse or Cody, and probably Karla. Owen and Cassidy would not have won against any of those, I believe.

He was good at jury management, both during the final tribal council and beforehand. He nurtured relationships. He massaged their egos at the ftc and he made them laugh, and he presented a plausible path to the end story.

Owen, I thought, could have spun his story better. I know it was a very long tribal cut down to what we saw, but by the end of the edited ftc he looked defeated, so I guess things went downhill at some point. I was still really hoping he might win.

All anyone needed to win was three votes, and Cassidy had the advantage having three original Coco members on the jury. But she mismanaged her relationships, was a whiny presence in the original tribe, and got Karla, her main partner throughout the game, voted out in a way that enraged her. If she'd been more personable, less arrogant re her sure win, and talked a better game, sure. But that didn't happen.

I was not expecting an older guy with a ZZ Top beard to win this season, that is for sure! But getting to the end without turning the jury against you is a major part of the game, and he played that game.

Edited December 16, 2022 by violet and green
typos

[eel21788]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yikes. That's a good point. Think of how much it would suck, to get NO votes, or just ONE vote, and then have to sit there and "celebrate" your loss. And knowing you are going to be on TV and having to put on a brave face and pretend all is well. 

That's pretty crappy.

Still not as bad as being first runner up on any of the romance shows.

[eel21788]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:28 PM, fishcakes said:

Gabler was not hiding in plain sight because no one was ever looking at him. He didn't control any strategy or drive any votes; he was a useful idiot to whichever alliance he barnacled himself to in any given week and because he was such a non-entity, he made it to the end. The goat finally won the game. It had to happen someday.

I really thought he won it with the AlliGabler analogy.

[eel21788]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:31 PM, tracyscott76 said:

(Obviously he would also have mentioned his idol plays, but Cassidy didn't need idols to get as far as she did 😛)

She didn't need idols because she had immunity wins to protect her. Every time people were gunning for her, she managed to pull out the needed win which isn't terribly different than having an idol/advantage.

[eel21788]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 My impression was that the jury was amped up to hand Jesse the win. You could see it on their faces when he was clearly going to lose fire-making.

They were practically chanting his name to cheer him on. I wonder if Gobler was tuning it out, or if he was getting a mistaken impression of where he stood with the jury.

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

The jury disliked Cassidy and Owen: they felt betrayed by Cassidy (no doubt egged on by a spiteful Karla), and saw Owen as a curmudgeon prone to anger outbursts. Gabler was the nice old guy they all liked (or at least didn't actively dislike), and that was enough.

I think the editors really liked Owen.  We were constantly shown Owen's internal thoughts and struggles.  He was practically a narrator of the game.  I came away from the show really liking him.  Not so with Gabler.

I also think the editors liked Cassidy.  I came away thinking she should win, so the editors showed she played a very good game.  Almost perfect until the end.

The editors may hate Gabler.  I know nothing of why he should win.

[Scatterbrained]

The octopus featured heavily in the logo this season, and one episode showed a rather long clip of a camouflaged octopus hanging out shapelessly in the water before it suddenly changed to a solid color, took form, and zoomed off.  Now I know that Gabler is the octopus, “hiding in plain sight”. 

And an early episode title “Lovable Curmudgeon” which was about Owen discussing his personality, is pretty much his character “pigeonhole”.  They knew he would make it to the final three, and receive no votes, so they set his narrative early on and stayed consistent with it throughout the season.  

[millennium]

IMO, the jury members were, by and large, assholes.   They -- especially the women -- were never going to give it to Cassidy because she was the petite, pretty girl who outperformed them.   Cody was Jesse's bro, so he wasn't going to give it to her either.   Jesse was an asshole with his self-serving challenge to Cassidy (and Probst was an ever bigger asshole for making Jesse repeat it in front of the jury -- my only surprise was that Probst didn't next ask Gabler if he had any plans for the money if he won).   Jesse's assholery continued with his weepy exit, making the women cry and regard Cassidy as though she had just killed Jesse's family.   This jury punished Cassidy for being better at the game than they were and defeating the guy they liked more (Jesse).  At one point, the jury was even providing answers to their own questions so that Gabler and Owen could just agree and thank them.   They punished Cassidy and then they rewarded Gabler because he's a character.   Which seems to be the way of things today.   Skill and achievement just don't carry as much weight as being "colorful." 

[millennium]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:34 PM, rasalas said:

If Jesse would have won the final immunity challenge (which we know is impossible because he was horrible at every single challenge), he would have never given up that immunity to make fire at the end just to prove himself. So for him, and then the jury afterward, to imply that Cassidy was somehow lesser for not doing that very thing is a crock of crap. Even convincingly winning the final challenge is not enough for a woman to prove herself; she always has to do something more. 

I have heard it said on this site before, though I have never said it myself until now: I wish I could give this a hundred likes.

[Lantern7]

I suck at making predictions. Go to the live thread . . . I spent the entire time thinking Gabler was a goat, a seat-filler between two legit contenders. Nope, he won. He actually won. I think that a lot of the shock some fans have is that he didn't really have a winner's edit. We've only had one older guy win Survivor, and I've seen Bob Crowley dragged when people reminisce about Gabon. In the end, Gabler made it to the end and got more votes. Still, I imagine fans walking on the street between now and early March, minding their own business, stopping in their tracks with one thought in their minds:

"Gabler?!?"

I think we need a Reunion. They don't need to have an audience. Just bring in all the players and chat for 60-90 minutes. I heard at least one player got mentally wrecked because they had no time to process while Probst was doing his thing. Do the final votes, threaten the players' lives if they reveal anything, then have Probst do 60-90 minutes of his bullshit. Hell, have the three-hour finale, and hold the Reunion the following week. Wouldn't even have to be live. Bring in the rest of the players. Minimum, we can make bets on how many Probst would forget to interview.

I think it's safe to say that Cody Assenmacher is out of the elevator sales business. Either he returns in an "all stars" season, or he pops up somewhere else. He would qualify for The Challenge; either the MTV version or the embarrassment CBS ran a few months ago.

(Side note: does anyone remember a pitcher in the Eighties named Paul Assenmacher? I'm wondering if there's a relation, because it's a unique name)

Seriously . . . Gabler?!?

How much surgery did Jeanine need to put her jaw back in place?

Here's Erik's last take on S43:

Seriously, his Gabler looks like a gnome.

Next time: unbelievably brutal shit and Probst jerking it on the sidelines! Eh, there's always Tough as Nails.

[SummerDreams]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Still, I imagine fans walking on the street between now and early March, minding their own business, stopping in their tracks with one thought in their minds:

"Gabler?!?"

You reminded me of Ross when he found out Joey was in love with Rachel, appearing behind doors saying "Rachel??!!??"

[rhbhaddict]

According to wikipedia both Cassidy and Gabler each voted incorrectly only one time.   Cass voted Ryan when Jeanine went out and Gabler voted Ryan when Dwight went out.  I keep hearing Cass never voted wrong.

[TVFan1]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:26 PM, eel21788 said:

They were practically chanting his name to cheer him on. I wonder if Gobler was tuning it out, or if he was getting a mistaken impression of where he stood with the jury.

I'm surprised the whole jury didn't break down crying when Jesse lost the fire-making challenge. They were all clearly rooting for him. Not a fan of Gabler winning, but am glad Jesse never made it to the end.