Gymnastics

[Chaser]

A lot of people are questioning Stephen over Shane, but that makes sense to me. I am a little curious at them picking Asher over Shane. 10th/5th verse 5th/3rd made me go a bit huh?

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I know this is mean and probably unpopular, but I haaaate how the US men scream, yell, and make a scene after finishing an apparatus. The women don't do that (and if they did, they would probably be accused of being arrogant or bad sportsmanship). I get being excited when you do well, but it gets on my nerves because it is so over the top.

The incredibly bitchy side of me also thinks, my dudes, win consistently at World's and the Olympics like the ladies and then you can do that.

 

Everytime. Even after a bust routine. I started appreciating Brody’s stoic attitude. I remember at the last Olympic there was discussion about the men’s team just being happy with subpar standings while the women are putting everything into making the top. 

Edited June 30 by Chaser

[Salacious Kitty]

5 hours ago, Frost said:

I've been lucky enough to have attended all the sessions so far - and the women's  final tonight!!!  Woo!

Anyway, my heart breaks for Shane Wiskus.  He came in 3rd and yet was named an alternate.  Meanwhile, Asher Hong falls off the pommel horse, which I've never seen in my life, and makes the team!  I know the selection committee does all sorts of math to figure out the best chance for medals, but I think it sucks!

 

Terry and Tim explained that Shane didn't perform well enough in the apparatuses that were perceived strengths for him. 

Scummy Brody Malone fell off the high bar. 

[Chaser]

Simone and Jordan felt so bad for Suni on beam they fell off too.

[emma675]

Everyone is falling off beam tonight, ugh. I can't decide (other than Simone, of course) who they are going to choose for the team at this point. 

[Chaser]

The newbies are killing it. They are expecting the Toyko crew to be back but I’m a little unsure. Watching Suni throw down on the bars and then collapse on the beam was wild. I was really shocked with Jordan. She had been so solid.

Sidenote, the guys jumping up and down was cute. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Really hoping Jordan makes it.

[Salacious Kitty]

14 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Really hoping Jordan makes it.

She was a no doubter. Glad Hezly got that last spot. She crushed it tonight. 

[CeeBeeGee]

9 hours ago, emma675 said:

I know this is mean and probably unpopular, but I haaaate how the US men scream, yell, and make a scene after finishing an apparatus. The women don't do that (and if they did, they would probably be accused of being arrogant or bad sportsmanship). I get being excited when you do well, but it gets on my nerves because it is so over the top.

The incredibly bitchy side of me also thinks, my dudes, win consistently at World's and the Olympics like the ladies and then you can do that.

 

YES. I cannot stand that crap, especially when they qualify well and always, always falls apart in the finals.

Love how diverse this women's team is! I was hoping for Jocelyn for the fifth spot (mainly because I loved her beam set) but Hezly's gymnastics are gorgeous as well.

So much joy this time, as opposed to the fear-laden Covid Games! I can't wait for Paris!

[Chaser]

Danell Leyva did a video on his IG comparing male v female gymnasts and points out the differences in finishing a routine. It’s hilarious.

Thrilled for the Toyko crew. I teared up with Suni and Jordan. I was pulling a little bit for Jocelyn but happy for Helzy. All of the girls did so well.

I wonder what the team would have looked like without the injuries. Does anyone know why it wasn’t so much a numbers game with the women?

[emma675]

I'm happy with the ladies team and so happy for Suni, Jade, and Jordan. Hezly over Joscelyn surprised me a little due to the age and experience, but I think the committee sees potential in Hezly and is giving her this international experience opportunity. 

Now let's just be consistent and stay on the beam! On to Paris!

[CeeBeeGee]

15 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Danell Leyva did a video on his IG comparing male v female gymnasts and points out the differences in finishing a routine. It’s hilarious.

OMG I have to see that. Can you post a link? (I don't know how to navigate IG.)

[Chaser]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3S31aCu0cG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[KittenPokerCheater]

I think Hezley got the 5th spot because of her strength on beam- I think she may have got the highest beam score.  And that seems to be where the team needs the points.  I don’t mean because of the falls last night, but just the numbers that there were last night.

Off to I stream to watch Danell’s IG.

[redpencil]

On 6/30/2024 at 10:30 AM, Frost said:

I've been lucky enough to have attended all the sessions so far - and the women's  final tonight!!!  Woo!

Anyway, my heart breaks for Shane Wiskus.  He came in 3rd and yet was named an alternate.  Meanwhile, Asher Hong falls off the pommel horse, which I've never seen in my life, and makes the team!  I know the selection committee does all sorts of math to figure out the best chance for medals, but I think it sucks!

 

I feel like falling off the pommel horse is relatively common (as falls go)? I've always looked at pommel as the balance beam of men's apparatuses. Every single pommel horse routine, even for those who are good at it, makes me extremely nervous, like they can fall off at any second with one slightly wrong hand placement or one slightly lagging leg. And it's exactly why Stephen was chosen (and even he makes me nervous!).

[andromeda331]

The only one who surprised me making the girls' team was Hezly Riviera but that was before we lost Shiliese and Skye. I was torn between her and Joscelyn. They were both really good. 

I can't wait to see them compete in Paris!

Edited July 4 by andromeda331

[Is Everyone Gone]

On 6/30/2024 at 2:30 PM, Chaser said:

Everytime. Even after a bust routine. I started appreciating Brody’s stoic attitude. I remember at the last Olympic there was discussion about the men’s team just being happy with subpar standings while the women are putting everything into making the top. 

I feel like for whatever reason women's gymnastics tends to attract harsh perfectionists. I think Simone, Gabby, Nastia, Shawn, Shannon Miller, Aly, etc were/are all like that. They're in their feelings after a minor bobble. It can be hard to watch as well bc they just seem so intense and so harsh on themselves.

[ombelico]

On 6/30/2024 at 10:14 PM, Chaser said:

I wonder what the team would have looked like without the injuries. Does anyone know why it wasn’t so much a numbers game with the women?

A lot of it comes down to the men needing to cover 6 events with just 3 people out of 5 (in the team final), whereas the women only cover 4 events with the same size team. That makes calculating the "highest scoring team" more complex on the men's side, and more likely to end up with someone like Shane who can be top 3 all-around, but when it comes down to the individual event scores, gets outweighed by someone who has 1-2 truly exceptional events.  

[kathyk2]

On 7/12/2024 at 2:19 PM, Is Everyone Gone said:

I feel like for whatever reason women's gymnastics tends to attract harsh perfectionists. I think Simone, Gabby, Nastia, Shawn, Shannon Miller, Aly, etc were/are all like that. They're in their feelings after a minor bobble. It can be hard to watch as well bc they just seem so intense and so harsh on themselves.

I think the women know that they are expected to win gold while the men aren't.

[Black Knight]

Yes. And the spotlight is just so much brighter in general. If you ask the average American who doesn't follow gymnastics much to name some gymnasts, they'll come up with multiple female gymnasts through as far back as they've been alive and probably no male gymnasts at all. As a Gen Xer, I can go all the way back to Nadia Comaneci, Olga Korbut, and Mary Lou Retton, as well as many others down to the present with Simone Biles. The only guy's name I can think of is Paul Hamm, and that isn't even so much because he won gold as because there was that whole controversy with the other country complaining. Otherwise I'm sure I would've forgotten his name like I've forgotten the name of every other male gymnast I've ever watched compete, whether they won medals or not. Looking up Nadia Comaneci just now to see what she's up to, I see she married an American gold medalist a while back, yet I only know her name, not his. The levels of fame female vs. male gymnasts achieve in America are just not comparable.

[Is Everyone Gone]

13 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Yes. And the spotlight is just so much brighter in general. If you ask the average American who doesn't follow gymnastics much to name some gymnasts, they'll come up with multiple female gymnasts through as far back as they've been alive and probably no male gymnasts at all. As a Gen Xer, I can go all the way back to Nadia Comaneci, Olga Korbut, and Mary Lou Retton, as well as many others down to the present with Simone Biles. The only guy's name I can think of is Paul Hamm, and that isn't even so much because he won gold as because there was that whole controversy with the other country complaining. Otherwise I'm sure I would've forgotten his name like I've forgotten the name of every other male gymnast I've ever watched compete, whether they won medals or not. Looking up Nadia Comaneci just now to see what she's up to, I see she married an American gold medalist a while back, yet I only know her name, not his. The levels of fame female vs. male gymnasts achieve in America are just not comparable.

Well you're losing out because MAG is incredible. The 6 apparatuses makes it so the AA gymnasts truly have to be amazingly diverse.

I still have so many fond memories of Kohei.

[MaryMitch]

I appreciate the schedule, but at the last Olympics, the NBC networks moved around the coverage quite a bit. Hopefully gymnastics is high profile enough that this won't happen as much.

 

Different topic: Gift article to the Washington Post about gymnastic coaches who continue to physically and mentally abuse their athletes:

https://wapo.st/3WzsC6E

[Mod-Tigerkatze]

Hi everyone, 

just dropping in to let you know that the posts related to the Olympics have been moved to the gymnastics thread in the Olympics forum, found here: https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/148357-artistic-gymnastics/

Thank you and enjoy the Olympics! 

 

[Is Everyone Gone]

Some disturbing news: Henrietta Onodi suffered a massive heart attack. She has three young children.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-henrietta-onodis-medical-journey

[andromeda331]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:23 PM, Is Everyone Gone said:

Some disturbing news: Henrietta Onodi suffered a massive heart attack. She has three young children.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-henrietta-onodis-medical-journey

Wow, that's so horrible.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Has Jordan Chiles been able to keep her bronze medal?

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Has Jordan Chiles been able to keep her bronze medal?

Not from what her most recent social media post published. It’s in the Olympics artistic gymnastics thread. It’s Outrageous.

[KittenPokerCheater]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It’s in the Olympics artistic gymnastics thread

I thought that thread was closed now that the olympics were over.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I thought that thread was closed now that the olympics were over.

Nope. Separate forum within Sports. Here is the link to the thread, which is still open.

sorry, can’t link from phone.

[scarynikki12]

I'm doing my post-Olympics rewatch of earlier games and I'm reminded of a question I have but always forget to ask:

What is with certain Romanian gymnasts using both legs to lead? Simona Amanar and in 92 Christina Bontas are both gymnasts who, when doing a roundoff into a tumbling pass or Yurchenko vault, lead with their left leg. But when they do any other move that requires a leading leg (layout step-outs, wolf jumps, simple cartwheels, etc) they lead with their right. Romania is the only country I've seen with gymnasts who use both, so I think it's specific to them, and it only occurs with the gymnasts who lead with their left leg for tumbling or vaults. Right leading gymnasts like Milo or Gogean never used their left legs to lead on any moves so my thought is this is another Belu (I'll be nice) quirk. I'm wondering if he did the gymnastics equivalent of when schools forced left handed students to use their right hands. It may have just been about uniformity, rather than the old view about using the left hand was a sign of the devil, but it's still so weird. I think the only reason the left leading gymnasts were allowed to use that leg on vault and tumbling was because they'd always be stronger that way and whatever the reason/prejudice Belu would want to win first and foremost. I guess there's a chance the gymnasts could have been ambidextrous but I think it was a Belu thing.

Related but not really, another question about from past Olympics and other competitions was: how in the hell did Romania get away with Gina Gogean not doing a tumbling pass in her beam routine? I remember seeing a piece about how she used to do the back handspring to 2 or 3 layouts like everyone else but the pass was taken out after a nasty fall. I get that. That moment must have been so scary and you know Belu never allowed therapists anywhere near the athletes so the resulting trauma never got dealt with. That doesn't change the fact that the Code of Points for the 96 and 2000 quads required a tumbling pass on beam and Gina didn't do one. I even looked to see if her dismount, which was the standard Romanian two back handsprings to double tuck, counted as a tumbling pass and it did not. Yet Gina's beam routines were always somehow out of a ten, no penalties were ever applied for not including a required element, she was regularly making all-around and beam finals, and she has a bunch of medals due to those routines. If Moceanu's nasty fall in the 96 beam finals had led to her not having a tumbling pass on beam in the 2000 quad you know she and the US would have been penalized so bad she would have been prevented from being on the Olympic team long before she had the chance to get injured.

If Nadia wants to talk about judging bullshit she can start with Gina's beam routine.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I'm doing my post-Olympics rewatch of earlier games and I'm reminded of a question I have but always forget to ask:

What is with certain Romanian gymnasts using both legs to lead? Simona Amanar and in 92 Christina Bontas are both gymnasts who, when doing a roundoff into a tumbling pass or Yurchenko vault, lead with their left leg. But when they do any other move that requires a leading leg (layout step-outs, wolf jumps, simple cartwheels, etc) they lead with their right. Romania is the only country I've seen with gymnasts who use both, so I think it's specific to them, and it only occurs with the gymnasts who lead with their left leg for tumbling or vaults. Right leading gymnasts like Milo or Gogean never used their left legs to lead on any moves so my thought is this is another Belu (I'll be nice) quirk. I'm wondering if he did the gymnastics equivalent of when schools forced left handed students to use their right hands. It may have just been about uniformity, rather than the old view about using the left hand was a sign of the devil, but it's still so weird. I think the only reason the left leading gymnasts were allowed to use that leg on vault and tumbling was because they'd always be stronger that way and whatever the reason/prejudice Belu would want to win first and foremost. I guess there's a chance the gymnasts could have been ambidextrous but I think it was a Belu thing.

Related but not really, another question about from past Olympics and other competitions was: how in the hell did Romania get away with Gina Gogean not doing a tumbling pass in her beam routine? I remember seeing a piece about how she used to do the back handspring to 2 or 3 layouts like everyone else but the pass was taken out after a nasty fall. I get that. That moment must have been so scary and you know Belu never allowed therapists anywhere near the athletes so the resulting trauma never got dealt with. That doesn't change the fact that the Code of Points for the 96 and 2000 quads required a tumbling pass on beam and Gina didn't do one. I even looked to see if her dismount, which was the standard Romanian two back handsprings to double tuck, counted as a tumbling pass and it did not. Yet Gina's beam routines were always somehow out of a ten, no penalties were ever applied for not including a required element, she was regularly making all-around and beam finals, and she has a bunch of medals due to those routines. If Moceanu's nasty fall in the 96 beam finals had led to her not having a tumbling pass on beam in the 2000 quad you know she and the US would have been penalized so bad she would have been prevented from being on the Olympic team long before she had the chance to get injured.

If Nadia wants to talk about judging bullshit she can start with Gina's beam routine.

Soviet judging. It happened all the time.

Edited September 16 by andromeda331

[Makai]

FYI - I posted the latest update on the bronze medal situation in the Olympic forum, is anyone’s interested. 

[scarynikki12]

In today's tour of competition's past I checked out the 1998 Goodwill Games. First, stupid network decided no one would be interested in Moceanu's beam routine which I'm still pissed about 25+ years later. Anyway, I still love watching her win the all-around and also watching Vanessa Atler later win vault and floor in event finals. 

It really is amazing how many coaches just cannot recognize their own faults when it comes to their athletes. I know Vanessa and Steve Rybacki are on good terms now but he and Beth failed her. They should have made sure she saw a sports therapist, spoken and worked with her doctor to make sure she was physically healthy, and changed the bars routine. I remember reading the claims that Vanessa was the one who wanted to keep the Comaneci salto and her poor coaches were powerless against her. Ok, bullshit. The only reason that move remained in her bars routine is because it was worth points, was unique when compared to other gymnasts, and the Rs were too stubborn to make changes that were in the best interest of their athlete. I remember Vanessa hitting that salto exactly ONE time in competition, after which she burst into tears of relief, and the rest of the time she fell. If the plan was to keep it in so she could work to overcome that demon then, fine, but once she did it should have been retired and a new routine put in place.

I think if Moceanu had been healthy in 2000 she would have been our best shot for an individual medal. She had great routines in place that were on par with the rest of the world in terms of difficulty and execution. All her coaches had to do was keep her consistent after she proved herself in 98 but, like always, they overtrained her to the point of injury and that was it.

Edited September 22 by scarynikki12